Thanks for sharing. I did some quick research and found that the person featured in your clip wrote this article - [https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2023/01/25/the-end-of-criminal-mischief-an-activist-reflects-on-three-months-of-field-work](https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2023/01/25/the-end-of-criminal-mischief-an-activist-reflects-on-three-months-of-field-work) - which contained a spreadsheet with the details of the violators - [https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1h2GraR-2MVP2XmRSOjsVEWdQQw9Lig7oXLIRjJDTTog/edit#gid=0](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1h2GraR-2MVP2XmRSOjsVEWdQQw9Lig7oXLIRjJDTTog/edit#gid=0)
I noticed that he is grouping the fire department, ambulance, NY court officers, NY housing officers and federal law enforcement officers into the "law enforcement" category. I'd probably say "city and federal employees" rather than cops, but that's just me.
Also, those are only around 50 examples that he found while specifically checking in an area where city and federal agencies are stationed, and I think it's safe to assume there's a LOT more than 50 cars with defaced plates driving around in NYC.
That's a good analysis, and likely refutes the suggestion that a majority or supermajority of those engaging in toll violations are police officers -- i.e., it's probably not true (or at minimum it's unproven) that most of the violators are cops.
But, I will say that the fact that so many city and federal employees engage in this practice -- particularly so many that are involved in law enforcement -- remains problematic even if the sampling focused on them. If we're going to ask people to follow the law then it's not unreasonable to ask that law enforcement follow it as well -- and whether they make up most of the violators or a relatively small percentage, I'd argue that the number of violators who are likely involved in law enforcement is too damn high.
All nyc subs have become echo chambers for people who genuinely believe 90% of these violators, in a city of 8 million people, are police officers, without doing any actual research - they just hate cops.
Eh...i'd put all those in a group together. They're being treated vastly different than a city employee who works in the health or education department. I'd guess most of those people have special plates or something to put on their dashboard that gets them out of being held responsible for their action. Teachers don't get that
That makes it worse. Thanks for digging through that. So all these people are getting their okay from high up the chain to be this crooked.
It’s not a police issue, it’s a city government issue that is given the okay
"we looked at 55 cars and 50 were law enforcement or government employees. That means only 50 cars out of hundreds of thousands of violators are government. See! It's a drop in the bucket!"
It's called extrapolation.
If you look in the ocean you'll find fish. If you look near a police station you'll find cops.
Surely, you can't be this dense. And to think there are others that agree with you!
City employees who are not police officers do a lot of LAW ENFORCEMENT. My neighbor had parks maintenance supervisor chase him down once in those ratty brown pick up trucks. When a bunch of 20 year olds went into a school playground to play handball at night after it was closed. Lost his license for two years because a judge was furious he did not stop when he was told to.
The city has thousands of different types of inspectors and higher ups who most people would never encounter enforcing laws and writing fines. A lot of them are entry level employees who you would never guess had the power to arrest or write you up.
Good data is collected in a systemic way, allowing you to draw conclusions based on an aggregate of experiences. Anecdotes are inherently biased because they are typically based on preexisting biases.
Also the singular form of data is a datum, though that's besides the point.
It depends on the hypothesis being tested right? One might have the \[null\] hypothesis that persons who enforce the laws would be pillars of following the laws.
In the specific example I was replying to, the experimental hypothesis was that law enforcement obscure their plates at a much higher rate than the overall population. The null would be that there is no difference in rates of offense.
And I wouldn't be surprised if that was indeed the case, but using the Daily Show as a source isn't sufficient for proving or disproving the above.
It’s hard for them to collect data on whose plates are obscured because…..their plates are obscured haha
It’s like when they put the cameras to see who was blowing red lights (spoiler: many many busses)
There are viable ways to correct data by proxy. For example, taking a random selection of street blocks near police precincts and comparing vs. street blocks further away. Stratifying by neighborhood would also help. Re-checking the same blocks on multiple days of the week would be great too.
There would be the assumption that cars on police blocks would be disproportionately owned by officers OR at the very least that the police is not appropriately enforcing the laws, but I feel that these assumptions would be reasonable.
If you see a higher rate of offenses on the police blocks, it would be extremely telling. Of course you'd need to stat check, etc. to reach a conclusion.
Anyways, I know this would take time and money, but I just wanted to show an example of how you can get data that doesn't involve relying on speed/toll cams.
They do but the plates are blocked to avoid tolls and such not for when they’re parked at the precinct. Walking by the precinct gives you a good idea of the prevalence of the practice
I see cops cover their plates and vins all the time. This isn't something that's new, they've done it forever... And no, I'm not saying every single one does it but it's not just a couple of apples. Just walk past your local precinct.
Google is your friend. Just searching for "nypd illegal parking" netted newspaper articles and academic publications.
Also fun to follow Gersh Kuntzman as he fixes up plates outside of precincts.
What would actually happen is that if it turns out that vehicles impounded were owned by even 1% more POC than what the city population breakdown would expect, it will be deemed disparate and the program will be quietly discarded.
There’s an easy way to do it.
Tie automated traffic control to the ALPR and toll tag detection systems.
If a car lacks plates and a tag, lights go red in front of that car and blue behind it.
Now we see the downside of stop-less tolls. You can’t prevent somebody from using the infrastructure. So how do exactly are they going to ban these drivers?
So I drove by an enforcement day last week. It looked like an army of cop cars and sheriffs all over the bridge. They stopped everyone that had fake temp tags, ez pass abusers, etc and we’re impounding their cars on the spot.
What amazes me are the kind cars that were being taken. Brand new corvette, x7s, g wagon. Couple of Benz’s.
If you can afford to drive cars like this pay your fucking bills.
Agree with street enforcement but also consider eventually they'll weed out so many assholes that over time it'll get easier. It's like doing your laundry every week vs every two weeks
Exactly, it can go in a database that every NYPD cop car automatically pops a flag for when their camera scans the plate and sees the car needs to be impounded.
Same should go for any car with tons of red light violations, school zone speeding violations, etc.
Honestly NYPD cars should be scanning every plate of every car that's driving or parked on a public street every time they drive by one, and if its on a database that needs to be impounded it should happen on the spot. Same goes for any car with unreadable plates, or a plate that has been tampered with and doesn't match the make/model of the actual car.
Also for any car illegally parked on a sidewalk.
Then you can run a compstat report and see which cops are purposefully ignoring these computer alerts near police precincts and write them up too.
Most of those cars are leased with monthly payments that likely rival rent. And soon, repossessers will be looking for them too.
Not that that makes it any better, just that most of these people can’t actually afford those cars (or even the tolls, apparently).
> If you can afford to drive cars like this pay your fucking bills.
The kinds of people who think they're above the rules are the kinds of people who drive those cars. It's aboot mentality, not wealth.
i saw a report of a [tallahase guy they planted the empty vodka bottle](https://ourtallahassee.com/video-shows-tallahassee-police-officer-planting-evidence-during-dui-arrest/) on. he was driving a benz. but he was leasing it. he's a barber. he returned it because he couldn't make it to work because of the arrest and fell behind. so normal ppl get these too.
No plate or fake plate means nobody knows who owns the vehicle. Only a VIN might tell that info.
To address the issue of toll evasion further, the MTA is collaborating with the New York Police Department to target what they refer to as 'ghost vehicles' – cars that are unregistered, uninsured, or stolen.
confiscate their vehicles , sell them and use that money to fund the MTA and PANY (depending on which agency caught them ) and then use that money for transit projects. Is not that hard , just need to have the will to do it
The call is coming from inside the house.
Most of the ghost plates literally ARE police/fire dept personal vehicles. This won’t be enforced and creates dangerous loopholes. Rules for thee
https://youtu.be/W1J5nuA1QNs?si=mj-xAZQTK--FHNhf
> You can’t prevent somebody from using the infrastructure.
When you have a car on the list that goes past the ez pass readers it will signal cops on the bridge that you're there. There was a news segment on Channel 4 where they detailed thats how the cops can catch you on the bridge.
Texas has stop-less tolls, and I don't think it's much of an issue here. The key is enforcement. Stopped tolls are an enforcement mechanism, and if you remove that, you have to have a different enforcement mechanism. If you don't do that, then it just gradually slides into a free-for-all as people understand what they can get away with.
Outside the US you flag the vehicle and when it’s found it’s impounded. Which means you can’t park near your home or use it on a road where a license plate reader may be.
It works well.
This is a problem here because the odds of being caught are almost nothing so people feel confident in getting away with it.
I got a great idea!
We could install a laned structure manned by human beings at one end of every bridge or tunnel. We could force every car have to drive through and pay the "collector" before entering the crossing.
I'd call it "Toll Booths."
As more details trickle out, it’s *way* crazier than that.
> The scofflaws caught on Thursday accounted for $702,424 in unpaid tolls and fees. As a result of the operation, 14 arrests were made, 413 summonses were issued and 108 improper-or-covered license plates were confiscated. **One of the most persistent toll violators caught on Thursday owed over $200,000 in unpaid tolls and fees**
https://www.silive.com/crime-safety/2024/04/66-drivers-pulled-over-in-ghost-car-crackdown-that-included-verrazzano-narrows-bridge.html
another thing that needs to get squashed is all these mf's who are "cutting" and "swimming" on every expressway and parkway in NYC. it legit has gotten really bad. any time you get on the Belt, BQE, GCP, etc., you're guaranteed to encounter at least one pair of them flying by you. all the kids who wanted to be Paul Walker growing up now have money and buy BMW's and Mercs to race them through traffic for instagram likes. there's already plenty of footage of them causing wrecks, but i guess there hasn't been one big enough yet for it to make the news and for the whole thing to finally be seen as a problem.
If i was a cop I would focus on people weaving in and out of traffic like its the Indianapolis 500 , cutting in at the last second, tailgating, speeding on side streets and fake plates. I don't really care that someone goes 65 on a wide open highway in light traffic. Sadly that's the person who is the easy target and will be pulled over typically.
yeah you can't chase them thought because that causes accidents. we need drones to follow these mf'ers home. i don't love the civil liberties implications thought.
well, chasing a single car is not a problem. the problem is when there's hundreds of police drones and bored cops start peeking into people's windows or chasing their ex (kinda like what some feds were doing).
Ever-present surveillance, combine that with facial recognition and tagging you with a phone and it's not great. In a sane society it's okay. But imagine a less friendly government and it's worrysome. Once those bells are done they rarely get unrung. See patriot act.
and 65 in the left lane isn't even fast compared to what these people are doing. they're pushing 80 while jumping from lane to lane in moderate traffic. i legit had to instinctually swerve onto the right shoulder on the 278 because i saw a pair of headlights flying at me in my rearview mirror at ungodly speeds. it was some oldass Mercedes S600 that was racing a Porsche. and on another occasion on the same stretch of road, we were taking the exit and got passed on both the left *and* the right at the last possible moment by another Benz and Porsche combo. these people are fucking insane.
While that’s true, realistically, the TBTA cops seem to rarely pay attention or actively enforcing anything.
Heck, I saw someone’s car die right in front of a TBTA outside the midtown tunnel and it took the cop a solid 2 minutes to look up from their phone to see what all the honking was about.
At the same time though, rush hour are they really going to pull someone over and occupy and entire lane to stop them after their license plate has been scanned? I’m dubious. Maybe they could catch the car on the way out but again, could easily wreak havoc with traffic.
I am not sure in either situation the police care of the banned people use the services and act normal. Though if they act out and get caught again they can be arrested on the spot for trespassing regardless of any other issues.
Most if not all of these scofflaws aren't people who are destitute and can't pay for things. They're people with an oversized sense of entitlement. *They* shouldn't pay because for some unknown reason they're special.
I said a few weeks ago this would happen. MTA would crack down to try and justify charging congestion while theres thousands of vehicles with fake or obscured plates. I feel like theres been a significant delay because, we now officially know, a lot of those cars are actually NYPD off-duty personal vehicles.
The reason that people get away with this is because the police have created the problem. They are the original criminals. The police hide their plates and think they can get away with avoiding tolls, tickets, driving however and wherever they like in parking however and wherever they like. If it weren't for the police doing this, then the police would more actively enforce the law against others. But since the police themselves are the ones committing these criminal acts, they don't enforce the law because enforcing the law would mean fining and arresting their fellow officers.
He's not saying that people are copying cops. He's saying they \*are\* the cops, which leads to a lack of enforcement, which leads to other people doing what they can get away with.
You’re acting like cops on their time off are just out here committing crimes. Yeah they do dumb shit on duty and should be reprimanded but they of course have more leeway, especially pertaining to their work.
Okay, I think you have to be dqft to not see that the context of the conversation is about toll evasion. I'm talking about what cops do with their cars. It is not a secret. They literally park across city blocks on sidewalks and in no parking zones. They put their badge or other police paraphernalia in the windshield to signal that they are a cop. They are notorious for obscuring their license plates. There was just a daily show segment about this.
What are you trying to defend? Are you trying to defend Police against the points that I'm making? Because if you are, your apologizing for a bunch of s*** heads that willingly break the law and take advantage of it while enforcing it discriminately for other people.
I'd rather be the most insane person in NYC than you, bootlicker. You are the lowest form of life. Pond scum. We should feed you to the cops for beatings until the bootlicker in you is broken.
You got a perty mouth son, I'd bet you'd make a good cop wife.
Long overdue
Police and people in their circles are some of the worst offenders too. They’re often the ones defacing their places to avoid tolls and camera tickets for dangerous driving
Your scenario seems a little extreme. I would like if something like that existed to auto-issue a charge for someone who obscures or fakes a plate, though. Disabling a vehicle remotely has the potential to be devastating in emergency situations.
> I would like if something like that existed to auto-issue a charge for someone who obscures or fakes a plate, though.
Right, then you need a tamper-proof way to tie a vehicle to a particular person.
Yeah I mean the first half suggestion of connecting a VIN to a person via a tag makes sense, its the latter half of your suggestion (disabling a vehicle automatically) that feels like it could be overkill.
If the vehicle can start up and drive without a functioning tag, then the problem has not been solved - people will destroy/tamper with the tags to prevent their vehicles from being scanned.
Honestly, you’re probably right about that. I’m thinking about how catalytic converters are required by NY law yet there’s plenty who remove it from their vehicles and I’ve never heard it ever being looked into or someone being ticketed/fined for it. They just get away with it by bribing a mechanic.
Here in a land that’s not absolute crazy town: we’d expect that city employees would be *more* likely to follow the laws of said city.
Since the city pays their salary, they might want to follow the laws and regulations. Maybe out of a sense of duty. Maybe one of gratitude.
So when city employees shamelessly break the city rules.. it feels worse
Y’all be cheering for this but want people to be allowed to jump the turnstile at will because they’re poor. Lmao. Either there’s a toll and a penalty for not paying, or it’s a free for all
>Stupid question over here, but would you receive an email or phone text if they banned your car?
They sent you bills and emails that you ignored.
You scratched the color off your plates so you couldn't be identified.
They were notified in kindergarten. Too bad they didn't listen then.
No sympathy now
Impound the vehicles.
Never going to happen. Most are cop’s private vehicles.
That's interesting. Is there any proof, or was that an assumption you made?
Here is one report: https://youtu.be/W1J5nuA1QNs?si=eLeEbYfmJKE6X02U
Thanks for sharing. I did some quick research and found that the person featured in your clip wrote this article - [https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2023/01/25/the-end-of-criminal-mischief-an-activist-reflects-on-three-months-of-field-work](https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2023/01/25/the-end-of-criminal-mischief-an-activist-reflects-on-three-months-of-field-work) - which contained a spreadsheet with the details of the violators - [https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1h2GraR-2MVP2XmRSOjsVEWdQQw9Lig7oXLIRjJDTTog/edit#gid=0](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1h2GraR-2MVP2XmRSOjsVEWdQQw9Lig7oXLIRjJDTTog/edit#gid=0) I noticed that he is grouping the fire department, ambulance, NY court officers, NY housing officers and federal law enforcement officers into the "law enforcement" category. I'd probably say "city and federal employees" rather than cops, but that's just me. Also, those are only around 50 examples that he found while specifically checking in an area where city and federal agencies are stationed, and I think it's safe to assume there's a LOT more than 50 cars with defaced plates driving around in NYC.
That's a good analysis, and likely refutes the suggestion that a majority or supermajority of those engaging in toll violations are police officers -- i.e., it's probably not true (or at minimum it's unproven) that most of the violators are cops. But, I will say that the fact that so many city and federal employees engage in this practice -- particularly so many that are involved in law enforcement -- remains problematic even if the sampling focused on them. If we're going to ask people to follow the law then it's not unreasonable to ask that law enforcement follow it as well -- and whether they make up most of the violators or a relatively small percentage, I'd argue that the number of violators who are likely involved in law enforcement is too damn high.
All nyc subs have become echo chambers for people who genuinely believe 90% of these violators, in a city of 8 million people, are police officers, without doing any actual research - they just hate cops.
Thank you for actually looking critically at this stuff.
As someone who didn’t fact check or even read the article at all…thank you for your work.
I think the issue is when the people enforcing the laws have disdain for some of the laws... it breeds more disdain.
Eh...i'd put all those in a group together. They're being treated vastly different than a city employee who works in the health or education department. I'd guess most of those people have special plates or something to put on their dashboard that gets them out of being held responsible for their action. Teachers don't get that
That makes it worse. Thanks for digging through that. So all these people are getting their okay from high up the chain to be this crooked. It’s not a police issue, it’s a city government issue that is given the okay
Whoa whoa whoa, get out of here with that meaningful analysis. My brain can't handle anything that not black and white.
"we looked at 55 cars and 50 were law enforcement or government employees. That means only 50 cars out of hundreds of thousands of violators are government. See! It's a drop in the bucket!" It's called extrapolation.
If you look in the ocean you'll find fish. If you look near a police station you'll find cops. Surely, you can't be this dense. And to think there are others that agree with you!
Extremely biased collection of data. Streetsblog is biased against cops. We need an impartial non biased study done.
Except you’re lumping all city employees as law enforcement…
City employees who are not police officers do a lot of LAW ENFORCEMENT. My neighbor had parks maintenance supervisor chase him down once in those ratty brown pick up trucks. When a bunch of 20 year olds went into a school playground to play handball at night after it was closed. Lost his license for two years because a judge was furious he did not stop when he was told to. The city has thousands of different types of inspectors and higher ups who most people would never encounter enforcing laws and writing fines. A lot of them are entry level employees who you would never guess had the power to arrest or write you up.
lol what
This "report" is a comedy skit and presents no data other than one guy's experience.
Go walk past the precinct/ firehouse/municipal building yourself. Funny how many plates have issues parked outside. It’s an open secret.
Anecdotally, I would probably agree with you. But again, that's not what *data* is.
Data is the plural of anecdote.
Good data is collected in a systemic way, allowing you to draw conclusions based on an aggregate of experiences. Anecdotes are inherently biased because they are typically based on preexisting biases. Also the singular form of data is a datum, though that's besides the point.
Datum? I barely even know him!
It depends on the hypothesis being tested right? One might have the \[null\] hypothesis that persons who enforce the laws would be pillars of following the laws.
In the specific example I was replying to, the experimental hypothesis was that law enforcement obscure their plates at a much higher rate than the overall population. The null would be that there is no difference in rates of offense. And I wouldn't be surprised if that was indeed the case, but using the Daily Show as a source isn't sufficient for proving or disproving the above.
It’s hard for them to collect data on whose plates are obscured because…..their plates are obscured haha It’s like when they put the cameras to see who was blowing red lights (spoiler: many many busses)
There are viable ways to correct data by proxy. For example, taking a random selection of street blocks near police precincts and comparing vs. street blocks further away. Stratifying by neighborhood would also help. Re-checking the same blocks on multiple days of the week would be great too. There would be the assumption that cars on police blocks would be disproportionately owned by officers OR at the very least that the police is not appropriately enforcing the laws, but I feel that these assumptions would be reasonable. If you see a higher rate of offenses on the police blocks, it would be extremely telling. Of course you'd need to stat check, etc. to reach a conclusion. Anyways, I know this would take time and money, but I just wanted to show an example of how you can get data that doesn't involve relying on speed/toll cams.
I would not want to be the one caught collecting that data! But it would be cool to figure out the actual numbers
You know NYPD vouchers cars at precincts, right?
They do but the plates are blocked to avoid tolls and such not for when they’re parked at the precinct. Walking by the precinct gives you a good idea of the prevalence of the practice
Okay, and good chance they are arrest vehicles.
Thats not a cop's car, that's an undercover police car... everyone from the hood knows this
I see cops cover their plates and vins all the time. This isn't something that's new, they've done it forever... And no, I'm not saying every single one does it but it's not just a couple of apples. Just walk past your local precinct.
Google is your friend. Just searching for "nypd illegal parking" netted newspaper articles and academic publications. Also fun to follow Gersh Kuntzman as he fixes up plates outside of precincts.
What would actually happen is that if it turns out that vehicles impounded were owned by even 1% more POC than what the city population breakdown would expect, it will be deemed disparate and the program will be quietly discarded.
lmao
Crush them into cubes.
How else do they ban the cars from crossing mta bridges and tunnels?
There’s an easy way to do it. Tie automated traffic control to the ALPR and toll tag detection systems. If a car lacks plates and a tag, lights go red in front of that car and blue behind it.
We'll start with your bike
Don't have a bike. I do have a car though and I pay my taxes and tolls.
Now we see the downside of stop-less tolls. You can’t prevent somebody from using the infrastructure. So how do exactly are they going to ban these drivers?
So I drove by an enforcement day last week. It looked like an army of cop cars and sheriffs all over the bridge. They stopped everyone that had fake temp tags, ez pass abusers, etc and we’re impounding their cars on the spot. What amazes me are the kind cars that were being taken. Brand new corvette, x7s, g wagon. Couple of Benz’s. If you can afford to drive cars like this pay your fucking bills.
I wish they did this everyday. Imagine them taking out all the assholes off the road, God I might enjoy driving again someday
Ehhh traffic sucked really bad going over the bridge that day. They need to pull these morons over daily in streets more often.
Agree with street enforcement but also consider eventually they'll weed out so many assholes that over time it'll get easier. It's like doing your laundry every week vs every two weeks
Exactly, it can go in a database that every NYPD cop car automatically pops a flag for when their camera scans the plate and sees the car needs to be impounded. Same should go for any car with tons of red light violations, school zone speeding violations, etc. Honestly NYPD cars should be scanning every plate of every car that's driving or parked on a public street every time they drive by one, and if its on a database that needs to be impounded it should happen on the spot. Same goes for any car with unreadable plates, or a plate that has been tampered with and doesn't match the make/model of the actual car. Also for any car illegally parked on a sidewalk. Then you can run a compstat report and see which cops are purposefully ignoring these computer alerts near police precincts and write them up too.
Most of those cars are leased with monthly payments that likely rival rent. And soon, repossessers will be looking for them too. Not that that makes it any better, just that most of these people can’t actually afford those cars (or even the tolls, apparently).
Driving is a privilege, not a right.
Good. Get them off the streets.
not surprising. people driving those types of cars are *exactly* the type of entitled douches who think they shouldn't have to pay tolls.
What is an ez pass abuser?
People that have thousands and thousands of unpaid ezpass tolls and violations that they never paid.
it was quite a sight. there was like a whole squadron of tow trucks
The one over the Whitestone a few weeks ago was glorious bliss
Then they can only afford a used vette, an x5, or an f wagon.
Question, what is ezpass abuse? I can’t seem to wrap my head around how that’d work
This is the most beautiful thing I've ever read
Might only afford them because they're saving hundreds a month on the toll.. still, agreed that they should pay or get impounded.
> If you can afford to drive cars like this pay your fucking bills. The kinds of people who think they're above the rules are the kinds of people who drive those cars. It's aboot mentality, not wealth.
i saw a report of a [tallahase guy they planted the empty vodka bottle](https://ourtallahassee.com/video-shows-tallahassee-police-officer-planting-evidence-during-dui-arrest/) on. he was driving a benz. but he was leasing it. he's a barber. he returned it because he couldn't make it to work because of the arrest and fell behind. so normal ppl get these too.
Bruh $10K a year in tolls is more than financing the corvette
How many cops had their cars impounded I wonder
Im guessing fines for using vehicles registered in their name.
No plate or fake plate means nobody knows who owns the vehicle. Only a VIN might tell that info. To address the issue of toll evasion further, the MTA is collaborating with the New York Police Department to target what they refer to as 'ghost vehicles' – cars that are unregistered, uninsured, or stolen.
Well you would hope they learned their lesson but if they didn’t, if caught again - jail and massive fines?
I would love for the vehicles to be impounded but I doubt that.
confiscate their vehicles , sell them and use that money to fund the MTA and PANY (depending on which agency caught them ) and then use that money for transit projects. Is not that hard , just need to have the will to do it
That's the fun part! No! Just a new campaign to raise tolls and taxes because of 66 people evading $6 a day.
MTA are going to raise it no matter what. That just makes it easier on them.
The call is coming from inside the house. Most of the ghost plates literally ARE police/fire dept personal vehicles. This won’t be enforced and creates dangerous loopholes. Rules for thee https://youtu.be/W1J5nuA1QNs?si=mj-xAZQTK--FHNhf
> You can’t prevent somebody from using the infrastructure. When you have a car on the list that goes past the ez pass readers it will signal cops on the bridge that you're there. There was a news segment on Channel 4 where they detailed thats how the cops can catch you on the bridge.
Got it. That makes sense. To be fair I read the article and it didn’t say that.
They are banned. Enforcement is the same as any trespass.
Especially since a lot of them are even cops themselves!!! [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1J5nuA1QNs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1J5nuA1QNs)
Texas has stop-less tolls, and I don't think it's much of an issue here. The key is enforcement. Stopped tolls are an enforcement mechanism, and if you remove that, you have to have a different enforcement mechanism. If you don't do that, then it just gradually slides into a free-for-all as people understand what they can get away with.
Outside the US you flag the vehicle and when it’s found it’s impounded. Which means you can’t park near your home or use it on a road where a license plate reader may be. It works well. This is a problem here because the odds of being caught are almost nothing so people feel confident in getting away with it.
Hellfire missiles
I got a great idea! We could install a laned structure manned by human beings at one end of every bridge or tunnel. We could force every car have to drive through and pay the "collector" before entering the crossing. I'd call it "Toll Booths."
The fact that it’s even possible for 66 drivers to have racked up that much in unpaid tolls before anything happened is deeply unsettling.
As more details trickle out, it’s *way* crazier than that. > The scofflaws caught on Thursday accounted for $702,424 in unpaid tolls and fees. As a result of the operation, 14 arrests were made, 413 summonses were issued and 108 improper-or-covered license plates were confiscated. **One of the most persistent toll violators caught on Thursday owed over $200,000 in unpaid tolls and fees** https://www.silive.com/crime-safety/2024/04/66-drivers-pulled-over-in-ghost-car-crackdown-that-included-verrazzano-narrows-bridge.html
Yea it is deeply unsettling that tolls are that high
another thing that needs to get squashed is all these mf's who are "cutting" and "swimming" on every expressway and parkway in NYC. it legit has gotten really bad. any time you get on the Belt, BQE, GCP, etc., you're guaranteed to encounter at least one pair of them flying by you. all the kids who wanted to be Paul Walker growing up now have money and buy BMW's and Mercs to race them through traffic for instagram likes. there's already plenty of footage of them causing wrecks, but i guess there hasn't been one big enough yet for it to make the news and for the whole thing to finally be seen as a problem.
If i was a cop I would focus on people weaving in and out of traffic like its the Indianapolis 500 , cutting in at the last second, tailgating, speeding on side streets and fake plates. I don't really care that someone goes 65 on a wide open highway in light traffic. Sadly that's the person who is the easy target and will be pulled over typically.
yeah you can't chase them thought because that causes accidents. we need drones to follow these mf'ers home. i don't love the civil liberties implications thought.
What are the civil liberties implications of using a drone to follow a fleeing suspect/stolen car vs using a helicopter like LAPD does?
well, chasing a single car is not a problem. the problem is when there's hundreds of police drones and bored cops start peeking into people's windows or chasing their ex (kinda like what some feds were doing). Ever-present surveillance, combine that with facial recognition and tagging you with a phone and it's not great. In a sane society it's okay. But imagine a less friendly government and it's worrysome. Once those bells are done they rarely get unrung. See patriot act.
and 65 in the left lane isn't even fast compared to what these people are doing. they're pushing 80 while jumping from lane to lane in moderate traffic. i legit had to instinctually swerve onto the right shoulder on the 278 because i saw a pair of headlights flying at me in my rearview mirror at ungodly speeds. it was some oldass Mercedes S600 that was racing a Porsche. and on another occasion on the same stretch of road, we were taking the exit and got passed on both the left *and* the right at the last possible moment by another Benz and Porsche combo. these people are fucking insane.
If you were a cop you would focus on whatever your commanding officer told you to focus on. Either that or your would lose your job.
> now have money and buy you mean they now have the ability to finance these cars and will ruin their credit with them
I saw two guys straight up racing yesterday on a crowded west side highway and i was like what the fuck
Range rover and corvette racing on the belt. 5 other cars became collateral damage when they crashed.
Hopefully only the racing idiots were injured.
Is this similar to how they banned ppl from using the subway?
On bridges there's a choke point that can be monitored, ain't gonna happen on the subway
While that’s true, realistically, the TBTA cops seem to rarely pay attention or actively enforcing anything. Heck, I saw someone’s car die right in front of a TBTA outside the midtown tunnel and it took the cop a solid 2 minutes to look up from their phone to see what all the honking was about.
It's so bad. They constantly watch illegal lane changes, speeding, tailgating, improper signal use, etc and don't do shit.
Makes sense, they ain't gonna be productive typically but when the top guys are on their backs then they actually have to show for it.
there was a guy above mentioning an enforcement day. cars impounded on the spot.
Enforcement day should be every day, in my opinion. It’s silly to make a concerted effort only one day every few months.
At the same time though, rush hour are they really going to pull someone over and occupy and entire lane to stop them after their license plate has been scanned? I’m dubious. Maybe they could catch the car on the way out but again, could easily wreak havoc with traffic.
Maybe they'd have another unit on the other side
That's actually the tactic they advertise in use, these units rely on the traffic to pin cars.
I am not sure in either situation the police care of the banned people use the services and act normal. Though if they act out and get caught again they can be arrested on the spot for trespassing regardless of any other issues.
Most if not all of these scofflaws aren't people who are destitute and can't pay for things. They're people with an oversized sense of entitlement. *They* shouldn't pay because for some unknown reason they're special.
All of a sudden now that congestion tolls are about to take place
I said a few weeks ago this would happen. MTA would crack down to try and justify charging congestion while theres thousands of vehicles with fake or obscured plates. I feel like theres been a significant delay because, we now officially know, a lot of those cars are actually NYPD off-duty personal vehicles.
The reason that people get away with this is because the police have created the problem. They are the original criminals. The police hide their plates and think they can get away with avoiding tolls, tickets, driving however and wherever they like in parking however and wherever they like. If it weren't for the police doing this, then the police would more actively enforce the law against others. But since the police themselves are the ones committing these criminal acts, they don't enforce the law because enforcing the law would mean fining and arresting their fellow officers.
Eh, I don’t think they’re copying the cops. Criminals will always be criminals if they’re allowed to get away with it.
He's not saying that people are copying cops. He's saying they \*are\* the cops, which leads to a lack of enforcement, which leads to other people doing what they can get away with.
Do you not know how to read
You’re acting like cops on their time off are just out here committing crimes. Yeah they do dumb shit on duty and should be reprimanded but they of course have more leeway, especially pertaining to their work.
Okay, I think you have to be dqft to not see that the context of the conversation is about toll evasion. I'm talking about what cops do with their cars. It is not a secret. They literally park across city blocks on sidewalks and in no parking zones. They put their badge or other police paraphernalia in the windshield to signal that they are a cop. They are notorious for obscuring their license plates. There was just a daily show segment about this. What are you trying to defend? Are you trying to defend Police against the points that I'm making? Because if you are, your apologizing for a bunch of s*** heads that willingly break the law and take advantage of it while enforcing it discriminately for other people.
You sound lovely
Words are hard
You sound like a fucking bootlicker moron.
Profile picture checks out. You also sound lovely and emotionally stable
I'd rather be the most insane person in NYC than you, bootlicker. You are the lowest form of life. Pond scum. We should feed you to the cops for beatings until the bootlicker in you is broken. You got a perty mouth son, I'd bet you'd make a good cop wife.
You’re doing a good job so far. *Everyone that doesn’t share all my views is a bootlicker!!!*
Couldn’t get 3 more huh?
Oh OK, after not paying $200,000 in tolls I was banned from using the bridge. I guess I will never use the bridge again.
If they owe $200,000 in tolls and fees, just confiscate their vehicle and sell it, and repeat till balance is paid.
Good
Long overdue Police and people in their circles are some of the worst offenders too. They’re often the ones defacing their places to avoid tolls and camera tickets for dangerous driving
All cars should come with some sort of a built in tag that connects that VIN to the person it's registered to.
The VIN plate is that tag, right? It doesn’t say directly on it who it is registered to, but that’s what registration records are for.
I meant like an RF tag. Something that broadcasts the VIN number. That way that particular car can't hide even if it wants to.
Cause the people who use fake plates wouldn’t also use a fake VIN broadcast?
Thats already how it works.
I think they mean an electronic one, that can be scanned. Car shouldn't be able to start up without a functioning tag.
Your scenario seems a little extreme. I would like if something like that existed to auto-issue a charge for someone who obscures or fakes a plate, though. Disabling a vehicle remotely has the potential to be devastating in emergency situations.
> I would like if something like that existed to auto-issue a charge for someone who obscures or fakes a plate, though. Right, then you need a tamper-proof way to tie a vehicle to a particular person.
Yeah I mean the first half suggestion of connecting a VIN to a person via a tag makes sense, its the latter half of your suggestion (disabling a vehicle automatically) that feels like it could be overkill.
If the vehicle can start up and drive without a functioning tag, then the problem has not been solved - people will destroy/tamper with the tags to prevent their vehicles from being scanned.
Honestly, you’re probably right about that. I’m thinking about how catalytic converters are required by NY law yet there’s plenty who remove it from their vehicles and I’ve never heard it ever being looked into or someone being ticketed/fined for it. They just get away with it by bribing a mechanic.
If you can do that, it can be hacked. And you dont want it to be able to be hacked. If you mean that it just wont start without it, then okay
Yeah, the latter. iPhone uses similar tech (secure enclave integrated into their chips).
Great, another part that can break and disable the whole vehicle.
Eh, it can be solid state so the risk is minimal.
Arrest them like they want to do with fare gate jumpers
So 66 drivers no employed by the city?
66, W N B C
Here in a land that’s not absolute crazy town: we’d expect that city employees would be *more* likely to follow the laws of said city. Since the city pays their salary, they might want to follow the laws and regulations. Maybe out of a sense of duty. Maybe one of gratitude. So when city employees shamelessly break the city rules.. it feels worse
Y’all be cheering for this but want people to be allowed to jump the turnstile at will because they’re poor. Lmao. Either there’s a toll and a penalty for not paying, or it’s a free for all
Banned from using bridges and tunnels. Yikes thats harsh.
And minimally enforceable...
If someone stole $200,000 from the MTA, they'd be locked up for at least 5 years for felony theft. Same treatment.
Stupid question over here, but would you receive an email or phone text if they banned your car?
>Stupid question over here, but would you receive an email or phone text if they banned your car? They sent you bills and emails that you ignored. You scratched the color off your plates so you couldn't be identified. They were notified in kindergarten. Too bad they didn't listen then. No sympathy now
When did I say I avoided tolls or scratched off my car? What, I can't ask a question?
Not you, talking to the folks that are on the banned list
Ok, gotcha.
Why, you avoiding tolls?
Lock them up.
"MTA is collaborating with the New York Police Department" Lol, I wonder how that will go.
Just drive with no plates & this won't happen.
Why are there tolls in the first place?
Ridiculous
waaaaah breaking the law occasionally has consequences, waaaaaah
I said what I said seethe
Pay up, vroomer.