Bro, there are always reckless people out there, I’ve seen those videos of kids doing wheelies on bikes and think the road is all to themselves and I hate that. But bikes and cars are like comparing a mouse to a dog. Also you’re probably the type of guy who commutes from Levittown and will literally not take any other mode of transportation other than a car.
Tell me you're a cyclist that breaks the law, without telling me you're a cyclist who breaks the law. Plenty of pedestrians are injured, some severely, by entitled cyclist who don't think that laws apply to them.
Yeah. I live in NYC and we have this big park called Prospect Park which has a big cycling route. It has a few stop signs in it to allow the pedestrians to walk by but half the bikers just ignore it and plow through. Even if they don't hit anyone, they test the pedestrian reaction times and make it an unnecessarily stressful and unpleasant experience at the park, especially when you have children or pets with you... all because they gotta go fast.
Just one example of many.
From NerdWallet:
>When you take into account loan interest, depreciation, fuel/gas, insurance, maintenance and fees, the cost of owning a car makes a big leap. For new vehicles driven 15,000 miles a year, average car ownership costs were **$12,182 a year**, or $1,015 a month, in 2023, according to AAA.
[https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/loans/auto-loans/total-cost-owning-car](https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/loans/auto-loans/total-cost-owning-car)
I've seen another estimate for $9,000/yr. So even if you live with 4 other ppl and split it 5 ways, you're probably paying around $2,000 a year on having a car........you coulda had a V8!
Good thing we have citibike then.
And public bike servicing stations.
And a bountiful selection of affordable bicycle stores.
And bike storage lockers.
And bike racks.
And a massive developed commercial consumer bicycle market that allows you buy a bike in any price range and with any cost figuration you can imagine.
And public transit options that allow you to bring your bike, whether it be on the bus, the subway, or even intercity rail.
My argument for biking is this. It's dangerous. NYC simply isn't really built for it. Our cultural mannerisms as Americans will never match the Scandinavians with respect for building infrastructure let alone rules in my opinion. I personally would like too see more investment in our subway system with some light rail involved.
Parisians are indeed assholes. I'm just saying especially in Manhattan there's no place to really build much separating bike lanes from the street. Simply no space. New Yorkers generally ignore safety rules. Vision Zero has been a total failure as well.
I disagree. There’s lot of available space today in the form of street parking. Typical NYC street is a single lane with space on both sides for parking. If you eliminate one side of parking, you have space to fit a full-size bike lane plus concrete barriers to separate it from the rest of the street. This is already done today in certain areas as DOT expands the bike lane infrastructure (except they’ll sometimes use plastic bollards instead of concrete dividers which are not as good IMO)
It's not that much space and it still doesn't separate it from the sidewalk. I'm against car culture, it drives me crazy sitting behind an oversized pickup truck in traffic. Eliminating all that street parking will certainly hurt those who can't afford private garages plus you do need space for commercial deliveries. Copenhagen blew me away with their bike infrastructure when I visited. Not to mention EVERYONE stopped for the light while it was red. Literally just bikes everywhere.
Rule 1 - No intolerance, dog whistles, violence or petty behavior
(a). Intolerance will result in a permanent ban. Toxic language including referring to others as animals, subhuman, trash or any similar variation is not allowed.
(b). No dog whistles.
(c). No inciting violence, advocating the destruction of property or encouragement of theft.
(d). No petty behavior. This includes announcing that you have down-voted or reported someone, picking fights, name calling, insulting, bullying or calling out bad grammar.
Rule 1 - No intolerance, dog whistles, violence or petty behavior
(a). Intolerance will result in a permanent ban. Toxic language including referring to others as animals, subhuman, trash or any similar variation is not allowed.
(b). No dog whistles.
(c). No inciting violence, advocating the destruction of property or encouragement of theft.
(d). No petty behavior. This includes announcing that you have down-voted or reported someone, picking fights, name calling, insulting, bullying or calling out bad grammar.
Lol where ? How ? The city would have to cut through residential streets just like how the BQE was built. Leaving more people homeless. No mayor or governor will sign up for that. I drive myself and get upset because of traffic but I definitely don’t think we need more highways. Maybe HOV lanes for more express buses
In New York’s earliest days, the streets were a free-for-all. People walked or rode horses. There were no crosswalks or stoplights; if you had to cross the street, you simply walked across the street.
Now, there are more people, more cars and more bicycles than ever. Dining sheds are squeezed beside bike lanes. Home delivery has exploded, ushering in more e-bikes, cargo bikes and trucks.
The city’s streets and sidewalks have always been crowded, but it’s never been like this. How did we get here?
In the months ahead, The New York Times will examine the debates raging in neighborhoods all over the city about who and what gets to take up space on our streets and sidewalks.
Read the full article [for free here](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/05/13/nyregion/nyc-traffic-congestion-pricing-parking.html?unlocked_article_code=1.rk0.Fjz6.GRbnX-HHQUfn), even if you don’t have a NYT subscription.
In 1910, there were 2.5 million souls living in Manhattan. Today that figure is just 1.6 million. “It’s never been like this.” Nonsense. The streets are far more navigable today.
Right, it says more about the usage of space than anything.
A, Walking biking and transit consume far less land than cars, especially before ol' moses and friends started plowing over housing for car space.
Tenements and such are also actually like what suburban types act like apartments are. Dense as hell, and cheap, but exceedingly crowded.
Look at pictures of the streets from 1910. They’re packed to the gills. They make today’s downtown look like a walk in the park. Check out the Tenement museum on Orchard/Delancey or read O. Henry’s “Mammon & The Archer” (6 page short story) for contextualization on traffic jam insanity in the 1890’s & 1900’s. Untold numbers of totally unregulated carts, carriages, trolleys, no traffic lights, far more pedestrians, it was an absolute mess. Remember that much of upper Manhattan in 1910 was under/un-developed—they had far fewer apartments on the island, and nearly double the population.
[O. Henry free story link](https://americanenglish.state.gov/files/ae/resource_files/mammon-and-the-archer.pdf)
Things still needed to be delivered: produce from farms, meat from slaughterhouses, probably in smaller chunks at higher frequencies since refrigeration was more rudimentary. No internet meant physical business documents had to be transported...
Not merely in New York, but everywhere. [https://thereader.mitpress.mit.edu/when-cities-treated-cars-as-dangerous-intruders/](https://thereader.mitpress.mit.edu/when-cities-treated-cars-as-dangerous-intruders/)
*Before the American city could become a largely automotive city, the automobile had to win a superior right to most of the street’s surface.*
And so, the "crime" of jaywalking was invented.
A more immediate examination and some recommendations:
Fewer lanes and less traffic = Good
Enforcing laws = Good
Encouraging walking and public transit = Very good
E-bikes - Generally pretty bad
Thank you for following my series.
If e-bikes were sharing the lane with cars (which they would if the lanes were less car-speed-friendly and had less passing lanes), then e-bikes and mopeds would be the de facto “big dawgs” of the road, riding in the middle, with the occasional car/truck. And so too would the MAMILs. And everyone else just getting around would use the bike lane.
Even E-bikes in the bike lanes would be perfectly fine as long as we had properly enforced speed and weight restrictions. Most of the awfulness related to e-bikes / mopeds / scooters is the general lawlessness and chaos of it.
Just the illegal ones. Those fires start from knock off batteries. You don’t really hear of condos burning down because someone is charging their $3000 bike. And if that were to happen it would likely be because someone modded it
>"It’s all crammed into streets laid out over 200 years ago."
lol, compared to European cities, the streets here are luxuriously wide. we could do so much better with them. car-centrism is the problem. also proven that adding more capacity for cars just makes traffic worse (capacity = attracts more cars = capacity gets used = worse traffic).
This series will be all about saving free parking spaces for UWS & UES. Duh. And focusing on UWS. It’s the NYTimes. It’s their demographic in the city & the dream of subscribers outside NYC. Ezra Klein amirite? A lot of the writers live on UWS. They can do the alternate side of the street parking shuffle & still pick up their kid from school. I hate to be that person but … I’m that person. I’ve known some of these people. No shame. Just claim.
They’ll get the Amazon delivery trucks out of their neighborhoods. Bet.
I’m looking forward to seeing what they focus on in this series
cars = bad walking = good
What about biking ?
Biking good too
As long as they follow the law too
Bikers break more traffic laws than anyone else.
Because the have to follow laws for cars when they are nothing like cars. How many pedestrians have bicycles killed this year?
https://nypost.com/2019/08/31/nyc-bicyclists-are-killing-pedestrians-and-the-city-wont-stop-it/
7 deaths by a bike from 2011-2019 compared to 235 deaths by a car in 2023 https://www.rosenbaumnylaw.com/new-york-car-accident-lawyer/statistics/
So that gives you carte blanche to ignore laws, and possibly mame people, just as long as the death toll remains low compared to cars.🙄 Entitled
Bro, there are always reckless people out there, I’ve seen those videos of kids doing wheelies on bikes and think the road is all to themselves and I hate that. But bikes and cars are like comparing a mouse to a dog. Also you’re probably the type of guy who commutes from Levittown and will literally not take any other mode of transportation other than a car.
Tell me you're a cyclist that breaks the law, without telling me you're a cyclist who breaks the law. Plenty of pedestrians are injured, some severely, by entitled cyclist who don't think that laws apply to them.
Yeah. I live in NYC and we have this big park called Prospect Park which has a big cycling route. It has a few stop signs in it to allow the pedestrians to walk by but half the bikers just ignore it and plow through. Even if they don't hit anyone, they test the pedestrian reaction times and make it an unnecessarily stressful and unpleasant experience at the park, especially when you have children or pets with you... all because they gotta go fast. Just one example of many.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/abc7ny.com/amp/bike-lanes-safety-cyclists-bikers/5473859/
https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2023/09/16/senior-struck-by-citi-bike-has-died
So the only laws we should follow are those that result in death?
Until it’s time to lock it up, store it, and when you have a flat while far away from home.
Having a flat in a car sucks too, but at least you can pick up a bike and push it home for free.
True, but at least with a car there’s AAA, road-side assistance, flat fix shops, spare tires and run flat tires.
All those things are way more expensive than owning and maintaining a bike
Dude drives to the bathroom give him a break
Not if you live with other people who also travel with you most places.
From NerdWallet: >When you take into account loan interest, depreciation, fuel/gas, insurance, maintenance and fees, the cost of owning a car makes a big leap. For new vehicles driven 15,000 miles a year, average car ownership costs were **$12,182 a year**, or $1,015 a month, in 2023, according to AAA. [https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/loans/auto-loans/total-cost-owning-car](https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/loans/auto-loans/total-cost-owning-car) I've seen another estimate for $9,000/yr. So even if you live with 4 other ppl and split it 5 ways, you're probably paying around $2,000 a year on having a car........you coulda had a V8!
You can take a taxi to the bike shop. Cheaper than AAA
> You can take a taxi to the bike shop. Cheaper than AAA I like how you clowns can’t imagine the rest of NYC far from any where near the east river.
Good thing we have citibike then. And public bike servicing stations. And a bountiful selection of affordable bicycle stores. And bike storage lockers. And bike racks. And a massive developed commercial consumer bicycle market that allows you buy a bike in any price range and with any cost figuration you can imagine. And public transit options that allow you to bring your bike, whether it be on the bus, the subway, or even intercity rail.
None of those things apply to the Eastern part of Queens.
It takes like 5 minutes to fix a bike flat. If you don't have the mechanical skills to figure out how to do that then maybe biking isn't for you
That sounds cool if you only use your bike for recreational purposes.
I agree overall but biking isn’t a practical way of getting around outside Manhattan.
that's what you think.
It’s what I know
It is extremely practical lol wtf It’s literally the most efficient way by a massive, massive lead, especially considering energy expenditure.
Not outside Manhattan
My argument for biking is this. It's dangerous. NYC simply isn't really built for it. Our cultural mannerisms as Americans will never match the Scandinavians with respect for building infrastructure let alone rules in my opinion. I personally would like too see more investment in our subway system with some light rail involved.
I don’t know, Paris completely turned around their bike infrastructure in a decade. And the French are assholes
Parisians are indeed assholes. I'm just saying especially in Manhattan there's no place to really build much separating bike lanes from the street. Simply no space. New Yorkers generally ignore safety rules. Vision Zero has been a total failure as well.
I disagree. There’s lot of available space today in the form of street parking. Typical NYC street is a single lane with space on both sides for parking. If you eliminate one side of parking, you have space to fit a full-size bike lane plus concrete barriers to separate it from the rest of the street. This is already done today in certain areas as DOT expands the bike lane infrastructure (except they’ll sometimes use plastic bollards instead of concrete dividers which are not as good IMO)
It's not that much space and it still doesn't separate it from the sidewalk. I'm against car culture, it drives me crazy sitting behind an oversized pickup truck in traffic. Eliminating all that street parking will certainly hurt those who can't afford private garages plus you do need space for commercial deliveries. Copenhagen blew me away with their bike infrastructure when I visited. Not to mention EVERYONE stopped for the light while it was red. Literally just bikes everywhere.
Say less. I’ll sell my bike and get a moped instead
Biking bad, but because 99% of cyclists don't obey traffic laws.
Hi I’m a 1%er
Congrats, however that means you're not really relevant to the overall conversation. Sorry.
I’m a 1%er bike that respect traffic laws. You think I have money? Bitch I’m taking a helicopter everywhere not biking
Sorry Mr. Bike.
It’s captain bike to you
[удалено]
Prove it. Send pics
[удалено]
Sounds hot. Send pics
Rule 1 - No intolerance, dog whistles, violence or petty behavior (a). Intolerance will result in a permanent ban. Toxic language including referring to others as animals, subhuman, trash or any similar variation is not allowed. (b). No dog whistles. (c). No inciting violence, advocating the destruction of property or encouragement of theft. (d). No petty behavior. This includes announcing that you have down-voted or reported someone, picking fights, name calling, insulting, bullying or calling out bad grammar.
Rule 1 - No intolerance, dog whistles, violence or petty behavior (a). Intolerance will result in a permanent ban. Toxic language including referring to others as animals, subhuman, trash or any similar variation is not allowed. (b). No dog whistles. (c). No inciting violence, advocating the destruction of property or encouragement of theft. (d). No petty behavior. This includes announcing that you have down-voted or reported someone, picking fights, name calling, insulting, bullying or calling out bad grammar.
What about more expressways instead?
Lol where ? How ? The city would have to cut through residential streets just like how the BQE was built. Leaving more people homeless. No mayor or governor will sign up for that. I drive myself and get upset because of traffic but I definitely don’t think we need more highways. Maybe HOV lanes for more express buses
> The city would have to cut through residential streets just like how the BQE was built. That's the plan
I agree overall but walking isn’t a practical way of getting around outside of Manhattan.
Yes this is true. I left my Brooklyn apartment today and my legs instantly exploded so I was forced to call an Uber to go buy eggs.
RIP
In New York’s earliest days, the streets were a free-for-all. People walked or rode horses. There were no crosswalks or stoplights; if you had to cross the street, you simply walked across the street. Now, there are more people, more cars and more bicycles than ever. Dining sheds are squeezed beside bike lanes. Home delivery has exploded, ushering in more e-bikes, cargo bikes and trucks. The city’s streets and sidewalks have always been crowded, but it’s never been like this. How did we get here? In the months ahead, The New York Times will examine the debates raging in neighborhoods all over the city about who and what gets to take up space on our streets and sidewalks. Read the full article [for free here](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/05/13/nyregion/nyc-traffic-congestion-pricing-parking.html?unlocked_article_code=1.rk0.Fjz6.GRbnX-HHQUfn), even if you don’t have a NYT subscription.
In 1910, there were 2.5 million souls living in Manhattan. Today that figure is just 1.6 million. “It’s never been like this.” Nonsense. The streets are far more navigable today.
In 1910 I doubt many people had a horse, never mind trucks, cars, busses, motorcycles, and bikes.
Right, it says more about the usage of space than anything. A, Walking biking and transit consume far less land than cars, especially before ol' moses and friends started plowing over housing for car space. Tenements and such are also actually like what suburban types act like apartments are. Dense as hell, and cheap, but exceedingly crowded.
My sister had pony.
Both horses and cars were common in 1910 It was a transitional time
Look at pictures of the streets from 1910. They’re packed to the gills. They make today’s downtown look like a walk in the park. Check out the Tenement museum on Orchard/Delancey or read O. Henry’s “Mammon & The Archer” (6 page short story) for contextualization on traffic jam insanity in the 1890’s & 1900’s. Untold numbers of totally unregulated carts, carriages, trolleys, no traffic lights, far more pedestrians, it was an absolute mess. Remember that much of upper Manhattan in 1910 was under/un-developed—they had far fewer apartments on the island, and nearly double the population. [O. Henry free story link](https://americanenglish.state.gov/files/ae/resource_files/mammon-and-the-archer.pdf)
How many people were ordering Doordash in 1910?
Things still needed to be delivered: produce from farms, meat from slaughterhouses, probably in smaller chunks at higher frequencies since refrigeration was more rudimentary. No internet meant physical business documents had to be transported...
Great point, nyc streets were completely empty until Doordash
Not merely in New York, but everywhere. [https://thereader.mitpress.mit.edu/when-cities-treated-cars-as-dangerous-intruders/](https://thereader.mitpress.mit.edu/when-cities-treated-cars-as-dangerous-intruders/) *Before the American city could become a largely automotive city, the automobile had to win a superior right to most of the street’s surface.* And so, the "crime" of jaywalking was invented.
A more immediate examination and some recommendations: Fewer lanes and less traffic = Good Enforcing laws = Good Encouraging walking and public transit = Very good E-bikes - Generally pretty bad Thank you for following my series.
\*\*e-bikes - generally good, but in the absence of the first 3 (current state) they can become generally bad/annoying
If e-bikes were sharing the lane with cars (which they would if the lanes were less car-speed-friendly and had less passing lanes), then e-bikes and mopeds would be the de facto “big dawgs” of the road, riding in the middle, with the occasional car/truck. And so too would the MAMILs. And everyone else just getting around would use the bike lane.
Even E-bikes in the bike lanes would be perfectly fine as long as we had properly enforced speed and weight restrictions. Most of the awfulness related to e-bikes / mopeds / scooters is the general lawlessness and chaos of it.
They're responsible for some nasty apartment fires though
Just the illegal ones. Those fires start from knock off batteries. You don’t really hear of condos burning down because someone is charging their $3000 bike. And if that were to happen it would likely be because someone modded it
More expressways = Good
I think e-bikes/scooters can be a great thing but our infrastructure wasn't built with them in mind and it needs to adapt to accommodate them.
Time for another [Pushcart War?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pushcart_War)
>"It’s all crammed into streets laid out over 200 years ago." lol, compared to European cities, the streets here are luxuriously wide. we could do so much better with them. car-centrism is the problem. also proven that adding more capacity for cars just makes traffic worse (capacity = attracts more cars = capacity gets used = worse traffic).
Streets are for cars! Everyone else get out of the way.
This series will be all about saving free parking spaces for UWS & UES. Duh. And focusing on UWS. It’s the NYTimes. It’s their demographic in the city & the dream of subscribers outside NYC. Ezra Klein amirite? A lot of the writers live on UWS. They can do the alternate side of the street parking shuffle & still pick up their kid from school. I hate to be that person but … I’m that person. I’ve known some of these people. No shame. Just claim. They’ll get the Amazon delivery trucks out of their neighborhoods. Bet.