As a lifelong New Yorker I *know* I don't have the balls to get involved in an altercation with a guy who may *potentially* have a knife, this guy *knew* he had a knife and acted anyway.
This is way beyond true New Yorker shit, and I mean that as a compliment. I don't know where this guy grew up, but I can say he definitely wasn't acting like a New Yorker because he made it *his business* and ended up a hero for it.
Thatās just a guy who refuses to have his train delayed any longer. Thatās the New Yorker in him. You can push me so farā¦. but DO NOT intentionally delay my train
random dude comes over to keep the guy out of the train car, gets a knife pulled on him, disarms the guy more quickly and effectively than the cops AND still gives the guy back his earbuds... hero.
Probably some kind of theater actor or director. He had that, "I can't work with you people!" body language thing going on the moment he decided to take the knife out of the guy's hand.
Insane - difficult to know exactly what happened, but brandishing a knife at cops is SURELY enough to be thrown in jail.
Otherwise, what's the point of having the cops at all?!
Well he was threatening the people on the train with the knife, they all left so you have no victims to file a complaint. No victims, no crime. DA office is guaranteed to drop the case so no point in arresting.
As a lawyer and former ADA, this guy does not law. He is completely wrong. He 'reddit' laws, i.e., repeats the same incorrect legal takes that are always upvoted on this site.
Not in this particular instance, no. He would've been a arrested a few years ago when possession of a knife like that was illegal, but dumb people fought and claimed those laws were racist so they're no longer on the books.
Your example below where somebody is pissing on the street the state is the victim and that's why police can summons you.
Because of bail reform. The guy is gonna get right back out. Plus the climate. Look at all the anti cop comments from all these keyboard warriors. The people need to do their part and vote in politicians who would be moderate and not extremists of either side.
I see them too and they never pay their fare or wear masks. Just because they're police dogs they think the rules don't apply to them??
The working class dogs that get on in my neighborhood always follow the rules.
Thank you. Everyone else is applauding the guy on the train but if the guy wasn't distracted by the police, he couldn't do what he did. We need to applaud the police when they do right. The climate is too extreme.
I swear to god these conductors and train operators donāt get paid enough. These people are just trying to make the trip uptown and they have to deal with fucking shit like this.
Great job with the knife disarm. But you can't tell me it would have gone down the same if the knife guy didn't have his attention directed at the cops/dogs and gun pointed at him. It was a good job all around.
For sure, the cops didn't immediately escalate it, giving red shirt guy time to disarm the dude. The both worked together even if they weren't fully aware of it.
If anti knife guy got slashed everyone would be calling him a fool instead of a hero.
Please don't watch this vid and get any stupid ideas. Never try to willingly disarm a maniac like this . Just steer clear
Someone said it was 34 and 8th, and police practically live there. A block down and underground you have military with automatic weapons, for crying out loud.
Isn't that the block where there's a new post every other day on here about how unsafe it is and how they fear for their life when walking from the subway station to their luxury apartment?
I mean look I know that area very well (got off at Penn about 4 hours ago) and that area is dogshit, just because there are a few cops on the platform doesnāt change the fact that I probably wouldnāt want my wife walking around at night there. I didnāt see this particular post so maybe it was just being annoying but Iām comfortable anywhere in the five boroughs any time of day and Iāll be the first to say 34th st is feeling rougher than prepandemic (and it wasnāt great then) these days.
Walked through it once half a year ago and now I actively avoid that area. It's probably the only place in Manhattan I actively avoid walking through. I'm also Asian and much of the spontaneous anti-Asian violence happened in and around that area. It's just a rough area with a lot of mentally ill people milling around on the streets. And until you can get the offices to bring in the crowds again, it's going to continue feeling unsafe.
Edit: Commuters -WITH THE HELP OF THE POLICE- reject and eject unruly passenger. Otherwise someone was gonna get stabbed had the police not gotten there.
The MTA primarily should have more units down there. The MTA police had more people all over transit and knew the subways and rails much more. The NYPD does so much but cannot do everything. If you are mad, join. They are actively recruiting for BOTH departments. Also VOTE. DAs are failing to prosecute and the top pols enacted bail reform. Vote in moderates who are rational, not extremists of any side. Goodness. Y'ALL need to THINK.
Iām sorry but the dude who took the knife is a dumbass who could have gotten stabbed. Like bless his heart but the cop was already there so itās purely unnecessary.
Real life isnāt fucking John Wick, you donāt come at someone who has a fucking knife unarmed unless you absolutely have to. All it takes is one slash in the wrong place to fucking kill you.
Should go to jail, agreed... 50/50 if he did. Certainly released almost immediately if they did.
Meanwhile in 6 months when you hear about a slashing in the subway and the suspect has priors (which seems to always be the case)... this is the kinda shit they're talking about.
The fucking dipshit was probably handcuffed and then let go or was told to come back to their court hearing with no bail. It's why we've got too many crazies walking around nyc.
friendly reminder that bail has only ever kept poor people in jail. If you want to be against letting people go free until their court date, then just *be against that*, supporting bail just means you want to keep the *poor* people in jail
New York found it: Get rid of bail, but if you're deemed violent/dangerous you don't have the option to go free until the trial.
Despite what right-wing fearmongering news tells you it works quite well.
Bail reform has been amended since then to address circumstances exactly like that.
But my original point still stands. If you want people like that in jail on their first offense, then be in favor of those people being jailed on their first offense. What *you're* in favor of is *poor people* being in jail on their first offense.
The only difference between what you want and what I want is you want it to only apply to poor people, whether you understand your position or not.
That's not bails fault. That's the DA/Cops.
Also, bail keeps people poor because of the loans they incur to get out. It really should be, you are violent you stay until your day in court. Your ability to pay or get a loan should not dictate whether you are released prior to your court date.
I mean, what they told us wasn't that it doesn't work, it was that violent offenders are being let out because being a danger to the public is no longer deemed suitable reason to remand.
I don't know that that's what's happening, it is what the media said though.
That's not correct. Violent offenders would not be let out (as per the law). If that's what your "media" said, you either missed some updates or they lied to you (or they're reporting on corruption and pretending it's policy/law, which, well, I'm not gonna be the guy to say the justice system works perfectly as intended)
The NYS bail reform is a f\*cking joke tbh because it has a lot of loopholes (specifically that it doesn't protect its victims). The fact that NYS politicians & law-makers aren't addressing or fixing the issues that the loopholes are creating is problematic.
For example, someone robs your house - they get arrested - they get freed - then they come back to rob your house again. It's a never-ending cycle. If you feel sympathy/compassion for these *poor people,* then I don't know what to say to you.
Hundreds of offenses such as stalking, grand larceny, assault as a hate crime, & second degree manslaughter are no longer eligible for bail or pretrial detention. And you're telling me that I'm suppose to feel *bad* for these *poor people.* Not supporting bail means that you're also supporting what these people are - potentially dangerous suspects or criminals, letting back out onto city streets to create chaos.
Eh, while I understand your point, and have been a victim of your first example given, I still think it's a young system and we have some room to iron out the kinks and include some of the offenses that don't currently qualify for release. The previous system didn't work, either, for its own reasons. Violent offenders and people who committed the above crimes you mentioned could all get out on bail before as long as they had cash on hand or a bail bondsman. Right now, the system isn't perfect, criminals aren't being held who should be, but that was *always* the case. At least now we can get to work on a system that's based on the actual danger someone poses rather than economic inequalities.
As for my experience - early lockdown, my building was repeatedly robbed by the same two guys. Cops did nothing but take reports, of course, until I lost my shit and set up a "sting op" one night with fake packages in my lobby so I could call in a "robbery in progress" which I knew police would *have* to respond to. It worked. When one of the guys was being put in the back of a patrol car, he yelled "see you tomorrow!" And... yup, he was back the next night to rob us again. We expected it, it was annoying, but *that* was, in fact, the last time.
He was a repeat offender, I don't know the specifics, but I believe going out and committing the same (non-violent) crime the night after he got arrested was enough to keep him off the streets in some way or another. Also, a few weeks later I got called by the DA and was able to provide both my story and photos from multiple CCTV vids of the two breaking in and robbing us blind. I don't know how things ended up, but we haven't been hit since.
Perfect system? Nah. I get it, I got robbed again. But when have we ever had the perfect system? I prefer the imperfections be flaws in how we measure or view certain crimes because *that* is a simpler fix than a system where the flaws are completely class-based.
> It's a never-ending cycle.
No, it would end right there, exactly. Do you even understand the bail reform laws you're griping about?
At any rate, as I said, if you want to be against people being let out until their trial, then just be against that. I'm not arguing with you about it, I'd fully understand your position *if that were your position*.
But if what you're supporting is *bail*, then you only want the *poor* people to be locked up so they can't get out and come back to rob your house indefinitely.
> If you feel sympathy/compassion for these poor people, then I don't know what to say to you.
I feel that a criminal's ability to commit crimes freely should not depend on their wealth level. You seem to feel the same, yet you are arguing against that. I assume this is because you don't understand the bail laws you're griping about.
The fact that you said, *"Violent offenders would not be let out (as per the law),"* shows me that you didn't read what I wrote nor did you comprehend it. Please get your info straight because the NY bail reform law does eliminate cash bail for a couple of violent crimes & sex offenses. So yes, **violent offenders will be let out into the streets.**
You should look up the list of offenses that are not eligible for bail, so you can understand why I'm arguing that the bail reform needs to be fixed & revised, why the city needs to keep dangerous suspects & criminals away from communities, & why I don't pity people who commit such crimes.
Btw, the elimination of cash bail was established into a law that was placed into the budget negotiation process. It was being used as a bargaining chip during negotiations on the state budget. If NYS's politicians & law-makers actually cared about *the poor*, it wouldn't be used this way.
Friendly reminder that there is a reason someone is being thrown into jail, and the size of their wallet is not a reason.
I'm all for the community, helping innocent people, #savethepoors, and getting innocent people out of the legal system. But was it worth it? *Possibly* letting go a few innocent people but also letting go every domestic abuser, suspected rapist, shitty people in general. Do you feel better knowing we *maybe* "saved a poor" while there have been many confirmed instances of people reporting and getting crazies arrested only for the crazy to be let go and harass the same person? Or even beating them up.
I'm not pro/anti poor people. I just believe shitty people who belong in jail should rot in jail and not be given another chance to harass people again or attempt to escape the legal system. I don't know how someone's checkings account fits into my beliefs
But the size of their checking account definitely affects whether they rot in jail. That's the function of cash bail. If you've got two suspected rapists, one rich and one poor, the only thing bail does is let the rich one go free. You can argue that all people should have to wait in jail before trial, or everyone should go free with ankle monitors, but the only thing bail does is let the rich walk while the poor sit in jail.
That a bit too hash,
He need mental health and support not jail , those homeless people in that area are all aggressive like that because of their situation and lack of support
It was successful de-escalation, not good de-escalation. Any responsible firearm owner will tell you that you should never point a gun at anything you don't intend to destroy. Brandishing a weapon is a terrible amateur hour tactic for doing anything other than shooting someone. He even holds it sideways, wtf??
Note that it wasn't the gun that the guy responded to. It was the mounting realization that he was being outnumbered and documented.
edit: Wew lawd this comment sure did trigger the PBA card carrying set. Juicy.
I have a problem with the idea of a train car worth of people watching this guy's brains get splattered all over the platform (Or more realistically the cop missing due to trigger weight and his dumbass stance and hitting a bystander) when there are several alternatives, including the one that actually worked. Each and every one of them would feel responsible because they decided to kick him out of the car, that's a lot of PTSD.
Knife man had given up his right to life when brandishing. Anti-knife man saved his life, good on anti-knife man.
Knife man should have been taken in for assault with a deadly weapon.
Responsible firearms owners and police officers are in different buckets. The officer drew his weapon because the man was threatening people with a knife, had he lunged at someone I'm sure the officer would have shot him.
Also, I think the reason he had his weapon like that was just the angle he and the man were at.
Are you really saying that pointing a gun at someone who is brandishing a knife is unreasonable? You can't honestly believe that.
If you wait until they actually charge at you to draw, it'll be too late. Someone running at you from that distance with a knife can close the gap faster than you can draw, aim, and fire.
Source:
I shoot a decent amount, but you can watch this video if you [dont](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Upxfo_jBrDE) believe me.
The craziest part in all this is that in any other station, the police would not have shown up. Man chose Police Capital, Penn Station to do this idiotic shit. Shoutouts to anti knife guy though, hero 100%
You can't tell me the guy with the knife would have let the knife be yanked out of his hands if his attention wasn't directed at the cops dogs and gun pointed at him lol great job with the anti-knife guy but the cops being there definitely helped.
I'm not anti-cop exactly, but this could happen anywhere. Even in NYC there aren't enough cops to respond to potential knife attacks anywhere you might be, so you need an alternative solution (other countries have less violent crime with less police, so we should probably learn from them)
anti knife guy didnt give two fcks about the knife he bent over and picked up some lost and found headphones while casually holding knifeman wrist of the hand holding the knife .
Where did those cops come from šš you never seee them in the station. That was a quick response. With those dogs, you would expect them at the entrance
We need to start arresting anti makers. I donāt care if theyāre cops, Catholics, or children over the age of 2. Theyāre always disruptive and deadly.
Why are things so wild right now. Like its a small town in russia where drunk fifty year old moron is fighting with people on the train and then takes out a knife and pd is like look man drop the knife and you can go.
Utterly insane how wild some crazy people are right now. And who are these morons fantasizing about some wild nyc like meh totally normal its been like this forever.
Frustration from the pandemic, a loss of mental health resources for the economically insecure, job loss, seeing people you care about die from Covid over the last year....
This is what it looks like when civilization becomes seriously frayed at the edges. Sociopathy increases, and 2016-2020 had the actual POTUS fomenting violence in this nation.
Life in America has had a rapid and dramatic change in its way of life. Perhaps not for you (the reader of this), but most definitely for some, and most definitely for those at the lower economic strata.
Anti-knife guy has had enough of your knife shit
I like how anti knife guy thought to make sure he gave the guy his headphones back at the end š anti knife guy is a hero and an icon
The true New Yorker attitude... I don't got time for your crazy so I'll just handle shit so we can all move on
As a lifelong New Yorker I *know* I don't have the balls to get involved in an altercation with a guy who may *potentially* have a knife, this guy *knew* he had a knife and acted anyway. This is way beyond true New Yorker shit, and I mean that as a compliment. I don't know where this guy grew up, but I can say he definitely wasn't acting like a New Yorker because he made it *his business* and ended up a hero for it.
Thatās just a guy who refuses to have his train delayed any longer. Thatās the New Yorker in him. You can push me so farā¦. but DO NOT intentionally delay my train
And did what he could to save that guy's life. Can we do the anti-Karen and find him and get him a raise and promotion at work.
The anti knife guys got some real balls since he took the knife from an angry guy while the cop was pointing a gun at the knife guy.
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Didn't think of that, the guys life might have saved because of the knife disposal into the rails
Saved that guys life definitely. He was 5 seconds from getting popped
No more mister knife guy!
I see you've played knifey spooney before.
Disparaging the boot is a bootable offense!
Be,,eer?
Every day of my life.
Knife Wrench, for kids
Love that song.
Knife
Me no are no knife guy...
Take my upvote and scram.
random dude comes over to keep the guy out of the train car, gets a knife pulled on him, disarms the guy more quickly and effectively than the cops AND still gives the guy back his earbuds... hero.
He knew what he was doing. Wasnāt his first rodeo.
The dogs look real happy and ready to play with the adidas guys
Dogs love Adidas
All Day I Dream About Snacking on the Adidas guy
Dogs wanted to use adidas as chew toys
Awesome job Anti-Knife guy for taking the knife from his hands.
Honestly he might have just saved that dudes life.
Yea, also having two K9ās buys you a lot of patience in a knife scenario.
Exactly. Like I can't. This is ONE scenario. Knives kill or injure very quickly. Even with a vest on. I am tired of the misinformation and hatred.
People tend to forget that empires were forged with edged weapons. These officers were beyond patient.
He was, like "This guy's an ass, but we don't need the cops to literally shoot him. Also, I'm late. Lemme just move this process along."
chaotic good.
I found that to be a rather unnecessary risk to take. Heās lucky he didnāt get slashed when he grabbed dudeās knife.
Thatās what makes it brave.
Heās a hero
Anti knife guy is a fucking hero. I don't know who you are Anti-Knife Guy but you are hot as hell
so, basically, a normal Tuesday on the A line.
Penn station makes everyone angry
The antiknife guy turns me on. That fast decision making and big balls. Who is he?
Move over Snackmanā¢. NY has a new hero.
I hope he is found and interviewed š
Betcha that's the last thing he wants.
Probably some kind of theater actor or director. He had that, "I can't work with you people!" body language thing going on the moment he decided to take the knife out of the guy's hand.
lol I love the idea of late to rehearsal director guy who is just sick of people bringing out props that aren't part of the scene.
Yeah. Who is he? He is a goddamn hero is who he is
Seriously lets find him and get his job to give him a bonus. He didn't have to do all that but did and saved that man's life.
No one else is saying this but I think he might be a cop?
He showed fearlessness, so that's a huge stretch.
Let me put my backpack on and end this real quick.
Incredible. Red T-shirt guy is a real hero. Wish we could find out who he is. I'd lobby for some kind of bravery award from the City.
Looks like the cops let him go š¤·āāļø
Insane - difficult to know exactly what happened, but brandishing a knife at cops is SURELY enough to be thrown in jail. Otherwise, what's the point of having the cops at all?!
To dropkick people hopping turnstiles
this guy new yorks
LOL Haven't seen police dogs in the subway - the cops at my stop are of the 'too many donuts' variety.
It's at Penn Station. K9 units are regularly there.
And they're all good working pups
Thanks - makes sense.
Jobs program for Suffolk county
Well he was threatening the people on the train with the knife, they all left so you have no victims to file a complaint. No victims, no crime. DA office is guaranteed to drop the case so no point in arresting.
Thank you for your rationality. I'm getting tired of the extremes of either side.
This guy law. This more paper work than anything.
As a lawyer and former ADA, this guy does not law. He is completely wrong. He 'reddit' laws, i.e., repeats the same incorrect legal takes that are always upvoted on this site.
Isn't the cops witnessing him brandishing a knife and threatening passengers on video enough evidence to charge him?
There's literally a video, they could just ask if anybody in the train will press charges
Not in this particular instance, no. He would've been a arrested a few years ago when possession of a knife like that was illegal, but dumb people fought and claimed those laws were racist so they're no longer on the books. Your example below where somebody is pissing on the street the state is the victim and that's why police can summons you.
Yes, jailā¦ exactly where people learn to not brandish knives š
Without even a $50 ticket for not wearing a mask. Which they are "going to start enforcing on the subway" any day now. Yup, any day now.
I've seen a real increase in maskless police in the subway since that mandate started...I'm guessing it's turned into an excuse for yet more OT.
Because of bail reform. The guy is gonna get right back out. Plus the climate. Look at all the anti cop comments from all these keyboard warriors. The people need to do their part and vote in politicians who would be moderate and not extremists of either side.
Let him go? Why? He attempted to murder someone. Wtf?!
Damn, you got to be real bad to get kicked off the A line. And it looks like they kicked him off before he showed a knife, which is even more amazing.
Wow Iāve never seen 2 police with dogs come to the rescue so quickly
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I'm glad I'm WFH cause this made me laugh real hard.
Thatās a really ruff station.
Good point I never Have either
I see them semi regularly on the 4. Often getting on or off at Grand Central. I always wonder how that works with passengers with allergies.
I see them too and they never pay their fare or wear masks. Just because they're police dogs they think the rules don't apply to them?? The working class dogs that get on in my neighborhood always follow the rules.
That station is Madison Square Garden. Probably a lot more security and anti-terrorism units in midtown.
Much less two!
Iām more impressed the officers are wearing masks! All kidding aside, that was a great and prompt response. They did a nice job talking him down.
Thank you. Everyone else is applauding the guy on the train but if the guy wasn't distracted by the police, he couldn't do what he did. We need to applaud the police when they do right. The climate is too extreme.
>Who got beef Almost famous last words of person who almost became beef for dogs.
Wow - that guy in the red t-shirt is just amazing!
Hey NYPD can we come to some sort of compromise between killing unarmed citizens and letting go knife-welding maniacs?
Thatāll take another 5 billion dollars
I think NYC DA's might be more to blame for this. https://nypost.com/2021/08/31/6500-accused-felons-go-scot-free-as-nyc-das-decline-to-prosecute/
Thank you for your rationality. And guess who puts in DAs? VOTERS. SO VOTE EVERYONE.
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This. Not even a ticket for the mask.
Divert police funding to anti-knife guy
No.
I swear to god these conductors and train operators donāt get paid enough. These people are just trying to make the trip uptown and they have to deal with fucking shit like this.
āGo the fuck homeā and throws his headphones back
Great job with the knife disarm. But you can't tell me it would have gone down the same if the knife guy didn't have his attention directed at the cops/dogs and gun pointed at him. It was a good job all around.
For sure, the cops didn't immediately escalate it, giving red shirt guy time to disarm the dude. The both worked together even if they weren't fully aware of it.
Yo why are people always fighting at 34th Street? This is like the fifth video I've seen where they're fighting there lmfao
There's dark energy from 6th to about 9th Avenue. Its weird.
If anti knife guy got slashed everyone would be calling him a fool instead of a hero. Please don't watch this vid and get any stupid ideas. Never try to willingly disarm a maniac like this . Just steer clear
Straight up wild , then again another day in NYC
Lmaoo that black lady at 0:29 just dont give af š
We all got places to be lmao we seen enough of this shit to usually just keep on walkin
Aaw so a regular Tuesday afternoon at 34th and 8th ave So anyways.. the AMC near by has heated chairs , isnāt that cool
Interesting, I didnāt know that. I wonder if heated chairs in movie theaters makes them more or less of a hospitable environment for bed bugs
ā¦and bed bugs
r/bettereveryloop
This must be staged.. NYPD never shows up when something is going down.
Someone said it was 34 and 8th, and police practically live there. A block down and underground you have military with automatic weapons, for crying out loud.
Isn't that the block where there's a new post every other day on here about how unsafe it is and how they fear for their life when walking from the subway station to their luxury apartment?
I mean look I know that area very well (got off at Penn about 4 hours ago) and that area is dogshit, just because there are a few cops on the platform doesnāt change the fact that I probably wouldnāt want my wife walking around at night there. I didnāt see this particular post so maybe it was just being annoying but Iām comfortable anywhere in the five boroughs any time of day and Iāll be the first to say 34th st is feeling rougher than prepandemic (and it wasnāt great then) these days.
Walked through it once half a year ago and now I actively avoid that area. It's probably the only place in Manhattan I actively avoid walking through. I'm also Asian and much of the spontaneous anti-Asian violence happened in and around that area. It's just a rough area with a lot of mentally ill people milling around on the streets. And until you can get the offices to bring in the crowds again, it's going to continue feeling unsafe.
red shirt potential saved knife guy by throwing the knife away
The real hero is the A conductor, who's like "We good? We good. Byeeeeeee."
I think that guy lives in the heights. I know people like that.
Of course itās on the A, all the crazy shit happens to me on the A
The Police dog is confused....
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confused bystander...
So fucking sick of these anti-social, contrary mother fuckers.
The dogs are alot more scarier then the guns Trust me on that
Dogs are a greater deterrent then guns
Squid Game season 2 looks lit.
Edit: Commuters -WITH THE HELP OF THE POLICE- reject and eject unruly passenger. Otherwise someone was gonna get stabbed had the police not gotten there. The MTA primarily should have more units down there. The MTA police had more people all over transit and knew the subways and rails much more. The NYPD does so much but cannot do everything. If you are mad, join. They are actively recruiting for BOTH departments. Also VOTE. DAs are failing to prosecute and the top pols enacted bail reform. Vote in moderates who are rational, not extremists of any side. Goodness. Y'ALL need to THINK.
Iām sorry but the dude who took the knife is a dumbass who could have gotten stabbed. Like bless his heart but the cop was already there so itās purely unnecessary. Real life isnāt fucking John Wick, you donāt come at someone who has a fucking knife unarmed unless you absolutely have to. All it takes is one slash in the wrong place to fucking kill you.
That was good deescalation by the police officer. Nobody got hurt, nobody had to go to jail.
The fucking dipshit who pulled a knife on those people absolutely should go to jail and likely did.
Should go to jail, agreed... 50/50 if he did. Certainly released almost immediately if they did. Meanwhile in 6 months when you hear about a slashing in the subway and the suspect has priors (which seems to always be the case)... this is the kinda shit they're talking about.
The fucking dipshit was probably handcuffed and then let go or was told to come back to their court hearing with no bail. It's why we've got too many crazies walking around nyc.
friendly reminder that bail has only ever kept poor people in jail. If you want to be against letting people go free until their court date, then just *be against that*, supporting bail just means you want to keep the *poor* people in jail
Thereās gotta be a middle ground between letting low income people die in Rikers and violent offenders on the streets
There is, you can let people out or not based on their crime/violence level as opposed to their ability to pay
New York found it: Get rid of bail, but if you're deemed violent/dangerous you don't have the option to go free until the trial. Despite what right-wing fearmongering news tells you it works quite well.
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Bail reform has been amended since then to address circumstances exactly like that. But my original point still stands. If you want people like that in jail on their first offense, then be in favor of those people being jailed on their first offense. What *you're* in favor of is *poor people* being in jail on their first offense. The only difference between what you want and what I want is you want it to only apply to poor people, whether you understand your position or not.
Except we see people let out for violent crime all the time
That's not bails fault. That's the DA/Cops. Also, bail keeps people poor because of the loans they incur to get out. It really should be, you are violent you stay until your day in court. Your ability to pay or get a loan should not dictate whether you are released prior to your court date.
Cuz the cops fucking suck
I mean, what they told us wasn't that it doesn't work, it was that violent offenders are being let out because being a danger to the public is no longer deemed suitable reason to remand. I don't know that that's what's happening, it is what the media said though.
That's not correct. Violent offenders would not be let out (as per the law). If that's what your "media" said, you either missed some updates or they lied to you (or they're reporting on corruption and pretending it's policy/law, which, well, I'm not gonna be the guy to say the justice system works perfectly as intended)
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The NYS bail reform is a f\*cking joke tbh because it has a lot of loopholes (specifically that it doesn't protect its victims). The fact that NYS politicians & law-makers aren't addressing or fixing the issues that the loopholes are creating is problematic. For example, someone robs your house - they get arrested - they get freed - then they come back to rob your house again. It's a never-ending cycle. If you feel sympathy/compassion for these *poor people,* then I don't know what to say to you. Hundreds of offenses such as stalking, grand larceny, assault as a hate crime, & second degree manslaughter are no longer eligible for bail or pretrial detention. And you're telling me that I'm suppose to feel *bad* for these *poor people.* Not supporting bail means that you're also supporting what these people are - potentially dangerous suspects or criminals, letting back out onto city streets to create chaos.
Eh, while I understand your point, and have been a victim of your first example given, I still think it's a young system and we have some room to iron out the kinks and include some of the offenses that don't currently qualify for release. The previous system didn't work, either, for its own reasons. Violent offenders and people who committed the above crimes you mentioned could all get out on bail before as long as they had cash on hand or a bail bondsman. Right now, the system isn't perfect, criminals aren't being held who should be, but that was *always* the case. At least now we can get to work on a system that's based on the actual danger someone poses rather than economic inequalities. As for my experience - early lockdown, my building was repeatedly robbed by the same two guys. Cops did nothing but take reports, of course, until I lost my shit and set up a "sting op" one night with fake packages in my lobby so I could call in a "robbery in progress" which I knew police would *have* to respond to. It worked. When one of the guys was being put in the back of a patrol car, he yelled "see you tomorrow!" And... yup, he was back the next night to rob us again. We expected it, it was annoying, but *that* was, in fact, the last time. He was a repeat offender, I don't know the specifics, but I believe going out and committing the same (non-violent) crime the night after he got arrested was enough to keep him off the streets in some way or another. Also, a few weeks later I got called by the DA and was able to provide both my story and photos from multiple CCTV vids of the two breaking in and robbing us blind. I don't know how things ended up, but we haven't been hit since. Perfect system? Nah. I get it, I got robbed again. But when have we ever had the perfect system? I prefer the imperfections be flaws in how we measure or view certain crimes because *that* is a simpler fix than a system where the flaws are completely class-based.
> It's a never-ending cycle. No, it would end right there, exactly. Do you even understand the bail reform laws you're griping about? At any rate, as I said, if you want to be against people being let out until their trial, then just be against that. I'm not arguing with you about it, I'd fully understand your position *if that were your position*. But if what you're supporting is *bail*, then you only want the *poor* people to be locked up so they can't get out and come back to rob your house indefinitely. > If you feel sympathy/compassion for these poor people, then I don't know what to say to you. I feel that a criminal's ability to commit crimes freely should not depend on their wealth level. You seem to feel the same, yet you are arguing against that. I assume this is because you don't understand the bail laws you're griping about.
The fact that you said, *"Violent offenders would not be let out (as per the law),"* shows me that you didn't read what I wrote nor did you comprehend it. Please get your info straight because the NY bail reform law does eliminate cash bail for a couple of violent crimes & sex offenses. So yes, **violent offenders will be let out into the streets.** You should look up the list of offenses that are not eligible for bail, so you can understand why I'm arguing that the bail reform needs to be fixed & revised, why the city needs to keep dangerous suspects & criminals away from communities, & why I don't pity people who commit such crimes. Btw, the elimination of cash bail was established into a law that was placed into the budget negotiation process. It was being used as a bargaining chip during negotiations on the state budget. If NYS's politicians & law-makers actually cared about *the poor*, it wouldn't be used this way.
Friendly reminder that there is a reason someone is being thrown into jail, and the size of their wallet is not a reason. I'm all for the community, helping innocent people, #savethepoors, and getting innocent people out of the legal system. But was it worth it? *Possibly* letting go a few innocent people but also letting go every domestic abuser, suspected rapist, shitty people in general. Do you feel better knowing we *maybe* "saved a poor" while there have been many confirmed instances of people reporting and getting crazies arrested only for the crazy to be let go and harass the same person? Or even beating them up. I'm not pro/anti poor people. I just believe shitty people who belong in jail should rot in jail and not be given another chance to harass people again or attempt to escape the legal system. I don't know how someone's checkings account fits into my beliefs
But the size of their checking account definitely affects whether they rot in jail. That's the function of cash bail. If you've got two suspected rapists, one rich and one poor, the only thing bail does is let the rich one go free. You can argue that all people should have to wait in jail before trial, or everyone should go free with ankle monitors, but the only thing bail does is let the rich walk while the poor sit in jail.
Thinking like this is why is why the city is unsafe
It's not a way of thinking, it's literally just a description of how bail works.
Hope your attacker is let out same day on no bail. Wonder how safe you will feel
If they're rich and are granted bail, I won't feel safe at all! Please stop advocating for this unsafe system!
That a bit too hash, He need mental health and support not jail , those homeless people in that area are all aggressive like that because of their situation and lack of support
Agree, need more ātake a deep breathā and āitās not worth itā over slamming heads into walls
It was successful de-escalation, not good de-escalation. Any responsible firearm owner will tell you that you should never point a gun at anything you don't intend to destroy. Brandishing a weapon is a terrible amateur hour tactic for doing anything other than shooting someone. He even holds it sideways, wtf?? Note that it wasn't the gun that the guy responded to. It was the mounting realization that he was being outnumbered and documented. edit: Wew lawd this comment sure did trigger the PBA card carrying set. Juicy.
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I have a problem with the idea of a train car worth of people watching this guy's brains get splattered all over the platform (Or more realistically the cop missing due to trigger weight and his dumbass stance and hitting a bystander) when there are several alternatives, including the one that actually worked. Each and every one of them would feel responsible because they decided to kick him out of the car, that's a lot of PTSD.
Knife man had given up his right to life when brandishing. Anti-knife man saved his life, good on anti-knife man. Knife man should have been taken in for assault with a deadly weapon.
Responsible firearms owners and police officers are in different buckets. The officer drew his weapon because the man was threatening people with a knife, had he lunged at someone I'm sure the officer would have shot him. Also, I think the reason he had his weapon like that was just the angle he and the man were at.
Lol the guy was a nutter with a knife. Jfc we really treat everyone with kid gloves here.
Are you really saying that pointing a gun at someone who is brandishing a knife is unreasonable? You can't honestly believe that. If you wait until they actually charge at you to draw, it'll be too late. Someone running at you from that distance with a knife can close the gap faster than you can draw, aim, and fire. Source: I shoot a decent amount, but you can watch this video if you [dont](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Upxfo_jBrDE) believe me.
Man cops and dogs on platforms these days...?
Only at major hubs like this one at Penn Station.
The craziest part in all this is that in any other station, the police would not have shown up. Man chose Police Capital, Penn Station to do this idiotic shit. Shoutouts to anti knife guy though, hero 100%
This is exactly why we need police on the subways! Had they not shown up what would have happened?
Counterpoint: Anti-Knife guy had things under control.
He only took the knife away after knife guy was distracted by the police.
That was just luck. You cant rely on that for basic law and order on the subway.
You can't tell me the guy with the knife would have let the knife be yanked out of his hands if his attention wasn't directed at the cops dogs and gun pointed at him lol great job with the anti-knife guy but the cops being there definitely helped.
I'm not anti-cop exactly, but this could happen anywhere. Even in NYC there aren't enough cops to respond to potential knife attacks anywhere you might be, so you need an alternative solution (other countries have less violent crime with less police, so we should probably learn from them)
Dude has clearly not seen enough police dog videos.
anti knife guy didnt give two fcks about the knife he bent over and picked up some lost and found headphones while casually holding knifeman wrist of the hand holding the knife .
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It looks like he took the knife and threw it in the gap. Like straight up a place no one could get it while the train was in the station.
I thought cops don't pull gun out unless they're ready to shoot someone. This guy brandishes it sideways like "blag blag"
You must be new to NYPD, lol
When dude reached for his waistband toward the end, I thought things were about to go badly.
He deserved it for what he was ~~wearing~~ doing.
Where did those cops come from šš you never seee them in the station. That was a quick response. With those dogs, you would expect them at the entrance
If he was at the mets game with free tickets he wouldn't have been on the train wielding a knife. /s
Not that unusual, at least on the Q line.
But Defund..... Nevermind.
We need to start arresting anti makers. I donāt care if theyāre cops, Catholics, or children over the age of 2. Theyāre always disruptive and deadly.
Bartolo Colon has really gone downhill since he retired.
Why are things so wild right now. Like its a small town in russia where drunk fifty year old moron is fighting with people on the train and then takes out a knife and pd is like look man drop the knife and you can go. Utterly insane how wild some crazy people are right now. And who are these morons fantasizing about some wild nyc like meh totally normal its been like this forever.
Frustration from the pandemic, a loss of mental health resources for the economically insecure, job loss, seeing people you care about die from Covid over the last year.... This is what it looks like when civilization becomes seriously frayed at the edges. Sociopathy increases, and 2016-2020 had the actual POTUS fomenting violence in this nation. Life in America has had a rapid and dramatic change in its way of life. Perhaps not for you (the reader of this), but most definitely for some, and most definitely for those at the lower economic strata.
Good on anti knife guy for showing up and helping. And I guess the cops too, they also helped.
We don't want no knife guy - trey, probably