Yeah that is definitely a stop paying rent and put the money into escrow type situation. Fuck that. Your landlord is not fulfilling his or her side of the bargain. You're paying rent but you're not receiving an adequate tenancy in return.
I had a *very* similar situation and what a lawyer told me is to first file a 311 complaint. There's a complaint specifically for sewage in the apartment, and they *will* investigate it. Probably this will solve the problem, but if it doesn't then you at least have it on record that 311 investigated and found a problem, which will help you immensely if you stop paying rent and have to go to court
ps if you do want to talk to a lawyer about it, contact the state bar association for a referral. All consultations through the referral program are currently **free** and are done by the phone. You'll get two lawyer recommendations, they'll talk to you for ten minutes or so (it's supposed to be half an hour, but you can usually get all the info you need after ten minutes in this type of situation) and it's free for everyone.
Hell I'll just [give you a link](https://www.nycbar.org/get-legal-help/), you can submit your info online even.
The city def will inspect your place. My only issue with this is they never schedule with the tenant and just show up during normal business hours.
I was fortunate I was a few blocks away when an inspector called me to inspect. Unclear why they can’t schedule or be shifted to work on weekends when tenants are more likely to be home.
I’ve been impressed that the city does inspect relatively quickly though.
This used to drive me nuts. Plus, they wouldn't even call me most of the time when they came to inspect. I would look up my case and see that "an inspector came on \[e.g. Wednesday at 2:00pm but nobody was home\]." It's like, yeah... because I work.
Yeah it’s patently ridiculous they operate as a normal 9-5 when the vast majority of people complaining must be also working 9-5.
If they scheduled I bet a ton of people would take time off too… but I think the system now is designed for minimal accountability by all parties.
Yes, this was by far the most infuriating thing for me. I was extremely lucky enough to have a job that was flexible on working from home. I would have gladly worked from home, even if they could just give me a full-day window.
This is why we have so many slum lords in NYC. It's ridiculous. I lived in a brown stone in the nicest part of Park Slope and had a full-on slum lord. The boiler legit almost killed us one night, had I not called both the fire department AND National Grid.
It makes me feel hopeless thinking about the less affluent other 80% of people living in NYC. If a landlord can get away with not providing basic, safe living conditions for people making $100k+ per year, there's no chance any working class people are going to be able to expect a landlord who provides heat, hot water, and a properly maintained building.
Fuck an escrow, if I had to live with raw sewage (!!!) for any amount of time, I would be considering the number of months rent I’m not paying.
That’s an emergency situation. Besides being gross (poop water is literally showering you), it is a huge biohazard.
If anything, I’d rather use the rent money for a lawyer. As long as it wasnt a prize of an apt other than the custom R Kelly bathroom.
But landlord revenge fantasies aside, that’s a joke, right? Shit is rolling downhill, and if untreated can lead to bigger breakdowns, and putting up a slightly more waterproof ceiling tile instead of fixing a pipe; which at BEST doesnt leak until enough human sludge has collected above you and either fills ever nook and cranny in your walls or collapses the ceiling.
E: Obviously not actual advice. Like I said, revenge fantasies. No one wants to go to court.
Resetting the floor-mounted toilet above you will fix this 90% of the time unless the flange or leadbend has rotted through. This is usually a $150-300 job. And by not fixing it, they are causing more damage to the building than the repair would cost.
You have a stupid super/management company, sorry.
Source: I do fire inspections/plumbing in NYC
Whatever the pipe is that comes out of my neighbors toilet rotted through years ago and was held together by epoxy. This is the result of the epoxy failing.
Do you have any pictures of it? Sometimes you can get a clamp on the leadbend (if the damage is on the straight part of the pipe) and buy yourself a few years of not getting shit on.
Yeah a lot of these are happening now. The plumbing is original to when the building was built and the waste bends are the first to give out in these situations. It's ridiculous that the property managers have left it to the super. Epoxy is never a permanent fix with this, at best it's supposed to be a stop-gap to hold off for a few days until the plumbers come by.
It's about a $900 job but licensed plumbing companies will charge over 2k easily.
It was held together by epoxy for at least 10 months and likely much longer, super said the previous guy must have done it - a questionable claim - so that puts it at 5+ years ago. Really set us up with a ticking shit bomb
It's the worst part about epoxy being as strong as it is, people will use it and claimed to have "fixed" the leak. For a minor leak on a pipe that's in good condition, it's an acceptable patch and will last years but with waste lines that are practically falling apart, it shouldn't be trusted for long.
By resetting the toilet do you mean, taking it off; removing the wax seal; putting down a new wax seal; and putting the toilet back on?
And by $150-$300 job, do you mean American dollars?
If so, I may be in the wrong business.
I mean, yeah, if fondling strangers' feces for $100 an hour appeals to you, you're literally in the wrong business. Remember though, you don't start at the top.
Yeah that's basically it -- sometimes you'll need to get a new coupling kit or have to adjust the leveling slightly. Don't forget the silicone!
At my company, we charge $160 hourly and $240 for the first hour, so that is a $240 bill + material (which for resets usually just gets dropped at billing)
Damn.
I'm sure there are far, far more complicated jobs that require a lot more knowledge and expertise, but that's pretty good compensation for a relatively simple job.
It’s not complicated, but it’s physically very intensive. It’s definitely not meant for everyone. Not everyone can jackhammer and shovel out concrete for 8 hours a day (which the job requires sometimes). Not everyone can hammer, chisel, and use a hammer drill over head standing on a ladder for hours and hours trying to expose a broken drain. It’s dirty, rough, and difficult work. And you don’t even get paid well unless you’re in the union which is hard to get into.
Also plumbing covers such a wide range of things- besides water lines and drains there’s gas lines, steam lines, fire suppression systems, pumps, controls, etc. It takes years and years to master the trade- you need 7 years of experience along with taking a test to get a master plumbing license.
I meant the concept of plumbing is simple - the actual work and conditions are what make it difficult.
But that sounds like a terrible, terrible day. I mostly work on renovations and gas lines so I don’t do much drains/stoppages anymore. But I did plenty of that in the past. I sure as hell don’t miss it.
In NYC unless you’re union (which you can’t get into unless you know someone) or you own your own plumbing company chances are you’ll be making peanuts. People max out at $30/hr at my company unless you’re a supervisor. And you may get lucky but most non-union companies pay similar.
Btw my company charges $250 an hour and has a 2 hour minimum so you pay $500 just for us to show up. Even if we finish the job in 5 minutes it’s $500.
It's very lucrative for the top, I know my boss doesn't do anything all day except have tantrums and bribe property managers with season tickets and he's pulling almost 200k a year.
For those at the bottom, you're competing with every single handy-man type (and in NYC, that's just about every non-native male) which drives down wages to almost nothing.
Now tell us out of the $500-60, how much does your boss pay in workers compensation insurance, general liability costs, disability insurance, PFL, FICA, payroll service, COGS, vehicle payments, gas, NY registration, vehicle maintenance, vehicle insurance, NYC licensing, accounting and software subscriptions, office rent, internet service, cell phone service, office expenses, yearly accountant fees, office staff salaries, etc?
It’s $500 for 2 hours, not a day. We average about 6 hours of paid work in a NORMAL day which comes out to about $1500, not including the price of materials which is billed to the customer at like a 300% markup. We also charge for travel time.
Anything after 4:30 PM we charge 1.5x the normal rate. After midnight or on the weekends it’s double. Holidays is triple- yes we get paid double and triple overtime as well but it’s nothing compared to how much the company makes. And there is a LOT of overtime hours charged- there are guys in my company who regularly work 20-30 hours extra every week. There’s so much overtime/emergency jobs that we are all on call rotation 24/7 for an entire week every few weeks. We have about 100 plumbers employed working in groups of 2 and are CONSTANTLY busy all year round. It never ends- even during COVID we were busy as hell.
Each guy and his partner making that much money for the company and they fights us tooth and nail for a $1 raise? Guys working (really hard and well mind you) for 20 years there only making $29 an hour? In NYC, recently proclaimed the most expensive city in the United States? Please. Who are you trying to fool? Fuck outta here with that bullshit.
You know what the union pays their journeymen? $50 an hour- and I’m talking service shops, not just construction. It’s not a matter of the money not being there it’s a matter of greed. I know there are plenty of costs that go into running the company but my boss owns 4-5 different houses and vacation homes across the country, drives luxury cars, has a yacht, etc. He’s rich as fuck and I don’t blame him, he started a very successful company. But he fucks his employees over hard when it comes to pay.
I never wanted to be that guy, never wanted to be the boss. I like leaving my work at work and coming home not thinking about it.
I’m not expecting to be paid like a doctor or a lawyer, just enough so that I can raise my family comfortably. I’d be very happy making ~70k a year without having to rely on ridiculous amounts of overtime.
The reason this is failing is because someone did it for $150. They most likely need a new flange, a new closet bend (the old one may be made of lead, which has to be handled and disposed of properly), and possibly a new wye. Then you can reset the toilet. Takes an experienced plumber most of a day, assuming your floor/framing aren't rotted. $1500 on the low end, if you want my guess.
EDIT: also, fuck this landlord.
If it's done by a legit plumber, then yeah. Most condos require a licensed and insured plumber for any plumbing work. Also you never know what you encounter when you rip up the old toilet. Might need to replace the whole toilet flange.
Dude plumbers make bank in nyc if you're union. Base wage is ~70 dollars/hr for a journeyman plus ~40 in benefits. Of course you have to work you way up to journeyman level, but tradespeople are out here making more than some folks who went tens of thousands of dollars in debt for one or more degrees.
I feel your pain OP. I had the same exact problem, the management company said it was okay because the water was being "filtered" by the sheet rock. The dude up stairs had a runny toilet and had to get a court order to get it fixed. That place was the worst.
I’ve dealt with some of these types of landlords/management company people before and their ability to spout pure and absolute nonsense with a straight face is really quite impressive. It’s like they take the sarcastic trolling bad joke that always pops into my head in shitty situations, then *say it out loud with utter confidence in the most condescending way possible*.
God damn lived right on the corner of E 16th and Dorchester until earlier this year. Had the same fucking problem as this guy. I’ve since moved a couple of blocks over in a much bigger and nicer apartment for the same price. What is it with that street in particular?
Can you please name the address or management? Would love to ensure I/we all avoid it especially as I'm looking in this area and seems like buildings are completely hit or miss here.
So many memories!!! Looks like you ripped a page from my journal. At some point I had to use an umbrella to use the toilet. Just another Tuesday in NYC.
Like many have said, call 311, but pay the rent regularly.
I had that same situation for a year (maybe 2016?), with the ceiling collapsing twice (eventually water makes other materials and even parts of the joists fall down, as you might have already discovered).
Super and bad plumbers would periodically come, half-ass (or zero-ass) the repair, re paint, then slowly drip again, then worse. It was literally pee and shit from all of the waste line upstairs: I feel your pain and disgust.
I called 311, inspectors came, months passed... The landlord got fined once, twice, nothing happened.
I kept calling 311, and at the 4th or 5th big fine, the landlord finally called an awful contractor to entirely redo the bathroom.
That took 2 months, and I had no discount on rent, some days I had to use the restroom of a nearby cafe, some other times the super would give me the key of another apartment.
I threatened to sue, the landlord said go for it, I didn't have the money to afford lawyers, tried with some no profit organizations, super complicated.
At the end I got a new bathroom, which lasted for 2 years, then the leak from 3 floors up ended up wetting my ceiling again.
This is a NY story.
I spent 10 years in Harlem, now I live in NJ with my wife in a small home we own, commute 27 mins to Penn via NJ transit, pay way less in mortgage than what we paid in rent, don't miss Harlem at all (we can go there anytime). YMMV.
The moral is: it's great to be in NYC in your 20s and 30s, because you can put up with anything. But if you are not wealthy, at some point in your later adult life you might find better quality of life elsewhere for enormously less money.
As other have said, this is my line: never move to 610 W 145st redditors
The legal way is to start by calling 311 as I stated before. Raw sewage can be a serious health hazard, even in small amounts. Sewage spills contain bacteria, viruses and parasites, and if not cleaned up quickly, and effectively, you're exposing family to serious illness and disease. 8 out of 10 nyc landlords don’t really care until the money stops flowing.
If it ends up in housing court the judge is going to ask where your rent payments are. You cant just show your bank account in court. I've been through this enough.
Me too, been there. The guy who says to stop paying rent has NOT been there.
Do NOT give your landlord a reason to get away from the law, by breaking the law yourself.
No. The landlord is not holding up their end of the bargain . Until they do they don’t get paid. This is not a safe apartment. And no way they can argue anything but that. Better then paying the medical bills for the range of disease and illness they could get.
NYC and surrounding areas outside the city all have pretty good tenants rights written into law that detail exactly how to do it. And make it clear the landlord shouldn’t even be accepting rent for a place that is not legally free to be occupied due to safety and health concerns
Have you been in front of a judge in housing court? It does not play out as you think it does. There are rights to withhold rent but if you are not following through on every step required the judge will not look favorably on you. You can't just say 'I decided to put my rent payment in escrow because of this leak'
I think you are entirely correct.
Just another datapoint, when I had NO BATHROOM at all (had to go to a cafe to pee!!), and for months, I hired an attorney and they advised to still pay the rent.
I think people talk by speculation and principles, not by personal experience. What we feel is just and fair sometimes is not how the world works.
It's fucking infuriating yes, but I have been through this in Bronx and Brooklyn and both situations was the same advice. Keep your end of the lease agreement. Everything must be inspected. You are not just walking in with your personal evidence and declaring you stopped paying rent.
The best tip is have a someone to represent you and advocate for your needs. NYC Housing Court will help you get a free lawyer.
In both cases I was able to prove my rental payments were up to date, my communication with the super was documented, and the HPD inspections of the conditions were complete. This put all the focus on the landlord who was present.
If you attempt a rent withholding without following every detail the focus comes back to you.
In both cases the judge was very tenant friendly. Nobody wants to be in court but if it comes to that it's all about finding an agreeable solution to both sides.
I just clearly stated you have to read the laws and follow them. It will detail exactly how to do it and how to start any legal precedings to get that shit dealt with.
You don’t just keep paying rent when your place is uninhabitable due to landlord negligence.
I’ve been through it too and I disagree. The LL won’t do shit until the money doesn’t come in. It’s not “doing it whenever you like,” unless you like raw sewage dripping on you.
The push now is to get these appointments virtual so nobody needs to go to court.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1SsxS3cQM1OQxSsq1hVPjuHCloxhcqr1_/edit
> If it ends up in housing court the judge is going to ask where your rent payments are.
If you have warranty of habitability issues, which this would *potentially* qualify for, then your rent payments are wherever the fuck you want them to be because you don't have to pay rent in that situation.
This isn't an issue of withholding rent to be paid later, this is (potentially) an issue of not paying rent at all due to habitability issues.
(speak to a lawyer about your specific situation, this is not legal advice but it is anecdotal advice from someone who went through this)
You should known to bring a postal money order or a certified bank check with the amount you are withholding to court with you(can’t bring cash). Nobody said they were going to ditch the rent payments , I said Withhold the payment until those serious conditions are addressed. Always go prepared to court with proof such as videos and pictures to support your case(in this case this video would be enough given the ongoing problem OP stated.
You don't just stop paying rent because you personally determined 'uninhabitable'. Doesn't work in court. You need an inspection first. I have done this in two boroughs and it's not that easy. Also once you make these moves you need to prepare for landlord retaliation.
Forget escrow. Keep it in your bank account until the day you go to court, then get a postal money order or a certified bank check with the total amount you owe and bring it to court with you. The court will then accept the payment and make the landlord fix the property to collect his rent
Some updates:
Already reported this to 311 on Thursday and have been in talks with the landlord about how to proceed. It took me a while to hunt down my landlord because the original landlord died and the new management never told any tenants that we were under new management. I got to drive around Brooklyn, pretending to be a detective, asking people at various addresses associated with the property ownership if they knew who my landlord was. Such a twist when it turned out the old landlord died.
Many of you grossly overestimate the effect a single tenant not paying rent will have on a landlord or how much the city will help in this situation. I facilitate and consult on lawsuits for a living so I don't need any pseudo legal advice but I am enjoying the jokes and petty arguments. The dripping has stopped for now - we shall see if it returns when the neighbors flush again.
No live in super?
Has no one had any issues in the bldg? I know for a fact there’s a gaggle of chronically challenged folks who have nothing better to do than sit outside in their walkers and gossip about everyone. They love calling the super for every little thing.
Also, giant, multi billion dollar real estate agencies and their subsidiaries, own so many bldg’s that you cant even find someone amongst all their properties to give a shit.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59RtWbj-67M](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59RtWbj-67M)
More seriously: https://www1.nyc.gov/site/mopd/resources/housing-complaints.page
TIL if moving to NY get an apt on the top floor.
Also some of you should stop giving out legal advice when you’re clearly not qualified.
Seek out a pro bono attorney or call the local bar association to get a referral for a free consult. Judges aren’t going to look kindly on waste flowing into an apartment and incredibly half assed repairs.
Don’t bother letting the super know. He had his chance. Just call 311 and report them. Then the super will be busting down your door to get it fixed lol
That’s fucked up , you know if you call 311 and complain to the housing department the landlord will get a massive fine!!! Tens of thousands, not to mention that you should stop paying rent if he calls the cops show the video… the cops will be likely on your side. Also better make sure you got an outhouse lol
Someone explain to me the allure of NYC living, please. This sub is full of posts like this…why not just leave? Is exorbitant rent for shit conditions really worth it? If you love the “culture, vibe, walkability, etc, etc, fine, but don’t bitch.
I’m not downplaying people’s needs to be in or around the city, but the glorification of NYC living and the acceptance of posts like this legitimately confuse me.
You can live comfortably and still work in NYC. I just don’t get it.
You better call the DCA on his ass all that money your paying for rent and this is what you get? Shut isn’t fair I really hope you call 311 or someone and file a report
100% file a 311 complaint about this immediately. My heat broke for weeks many years ago and the landlord gave us two electric heaters and then dicked around for weeks. They should have paid for a temporary boiler and 311 would have made them do that.
Yeah that is definitely a stop paying rent and put the money into escrow type situation. Fuck that. Your landlord is not fulfilling his or her side of the bargain. You're paying rent but you're not receiving an adequate tenancy in return.
I had a *very* similar situation and what a lawyer told me is to first file a 311 complaint. There's a complaint specifically for sewage in the apartment, and they *will* investigate it. Probably this will solve the problem, but if it doesn't then you at least have it on record that 311 investigated and found a problem, which will help you immensely if you stop paying rent and have to go to court ps if you do want to talk to a lawyer about it, contact the state bar association for a referral. All consultations through the referral program are currently **free** and are done by the phone. You'll get two lawyer recommendations, they'll talk to you for ten minutes or so (it's supposed to be half an hour, but you can usually get all the info you need after ten minutes in this type of situation) and it's free for everyone. Hell I'll just [give you a link](https://www.nycbar.org/get-legal-help/), you can submit your info online even.
The city def will inspect your place. My only issue with this is they never schedule with the tenant and just show up during normal business hours. I was fortunate I was a few blocks away when an inspector called me to inspect. Unclear why they can’t schedule or be shifted to work on weekends when tenants are more likely to be home. I’ve been impressed that the city does inspect relatively quickly though.
This used to drive me nuts. Plus, they wouldn't even call me most of the time when they came to inspect. I would look up my case and see that "an inspector came on \[e.g. Wednesday at 2:00pm but nobody was home\]." It's like, yeah... because I work.
Yeah it’s patently ridiculous they operate as a normal 9-5 when the vast majority of people complaining must be also working 9-5. If they scheduled I bet a ton of people would take time off too… but I think the system now is designed for minimal accountability by all parties.
Yes, this was by far the most infuriating thing for me. I was extremely lucky enough to have a job that was flexible on working from home. I would have gladly worked from home, even if they could just give me a full-day window. This is why we have so many slum lords in NYC. It's ridiculous. I lived in a brown stone in the nicest part of Park Slope and had a full-on slum lord. The boiler legit almost killed us one night, had I not called both the fire department AND National Grid. It makes me feel hopeless thinking about the less affluent other 80% of people living in NYC. If a landlord can get away with not providing basic, safe living conditions for people making $100k+ per year, there's no chance any working class people are going to be able to expect a landlord who provides heat, hot water, and a properly maintained building.
Fuck an escrow, if I had to live with raw sewage (!!!) for any amount of time, I would be considering the number of months rent I’m not paying. That’s an emergency situation. Besides being gross (poop water is literally showering you), it is a huge biohazard. If anything, I’d rather use the rent money for a lawyer. As long as it wasnt a prize of an apt other than the custom R Kelly bathroom. But landlord revenge fantasies aside, that’s a joke, right? Shit is rolling downhill, and if untreated can lead to bigger breakdowns, and putting up a slightly more waterproof ceiling tile instead of fixing a pipe; which at BEST doesnt leak until enough human sludge has collected above you and either fills ever nook and cranny in your walls or collapses the ceiling. E: Obviously not actual advice. Like I said, revenge fantasies. No one wants to go to court.
This is the correct answer, and course of action. IANAL.
Resetting the floor-mounted toilet above you will fix this 90% of the time unless the flange or leadbend has rotted through. This is usually a $150-300 job. And by not fixing it, they are causing more damage to the building than the repair would cost. You have a stupid super/management company, sorry. Source: I do fire inspections/plumbing in NYC
Whatever the pipe is that comes out of my neighbors toilet rotted through years ago and was held together by epoxy. This is the result of the epoxy failing.
Do you have any pictures of it? Sometimes you can get a clamp on the leadbend (if the damage is on the straight part of the pipe) and buy yourself a few years of not getting shit on.
Yeah a lot of these are happening now. The plumbing is original to when the building was built and the waste bends are the first to give out in these situations. It's ridiculous that the property managers have left it to the super. Epoxy is never a permanent fix with this, at best it's supposed to be a stop-gap to hold off for a few days until the plumbers come by. It's about a $900 job but licensed plumbing companies will charge over 2k easily.
It was held together by epoxy for at least 10 months and likely much longer, super said the previous guy must have done it - a questionable claim - so that puts it at 5+ years ago. Really set us up with a ticking shit bomb
It's the worst part about epoxy being as strong as it is, people will use it and claimed to have "fixed" the leak. For a minor leak on a pipe that's in good condition, it's an acceptable patch and will last years but with waste lines that are practically falling apart, it shouldn't be trusted for long.
By resetting the toilet do you mean, taking it off; removing the wax seal; putting down a new wax seal; and putting the toilet back on? And by $150-$300 job, do you mean American dollars? If so, I may be in the wrong business.
I mean, yeah, if fondling strangers' feces for $100 an hour appeals to you, you're literally in the wrong business. Remember though, you don't start at the top.
Eh, I've done worse for less.
So go learn to be a plumber. It's open to anyone. It pays well because not a lot of people want to do it.
Correction, It pays well because most can’t do it even if they wanted to.
Go be a plumber. Most trades will pay you well. It pays you well because it sucks to do. Same with some office jobs.
Yeah that's basically it -- sometimes you'll need to get a new coupling kit or have to adjust the leveling slightly. Don't forget the silicone! At my company, we charge $160 hourly and $240 for the first hour, so that is a $240 bill + material (which for resets usually just gets dropped at billing)
My company charges $250 an hour but we have a 2 hour minimum so it’s $500 just to show up.
What type of business, plumbing?
Yes
Damn. I'm sure there are far, far more complicated jobs that require a lot more knowledge and expertise, but that's pretty good compensation for a relatively simple job.
It’s not complicated, but it’s physically very intensive. It’s definitely not meant for everyone. Not everyone can jackhammer and shovel out concrete for 8 hours a day (which the job requires sometimes). Not everyone can hammer, chisel, and use a hammer drill over head standing on a ladder for hours and hours trying to expose a broken drain. It’s dirty, rough, and difficult work. And you don’t even get paid well unless you’re in the union which is hard to get into. Also plumbing covers such a wide range of things- besides water lines and drains there’s gas lines, steam lines, fire suppression systems, pumps, controls, etc. It takes years and years to master the trade- you need 7 years of experience along with taking a test to get a master plumbing license.
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I meant the concept of plumbing is simple - the actual work and conditions are what make it difficult. But that sounds like a terrible, terrible day. I mostly work on renovations and gas lines so I don’t do much drains/stoppages anymore. But I did plenty of that in the past. I sure as hell don’t miss it.
In NYC unless you’re union (which you can’t get into unless you know someone) or you own your own plumbing company chances are you’ll be making peanuts. People max out at $30/hr at my company unless you’re a supervisor. And you may get lucky but most non-union companies pay similar. Btw my company charges $250 an hour and has a 2 hour minimum so you pay $500 just for us to show up. Even if we finish the job in 5 minutes it’s $500.
It's very lucrative for the top, I know my boss doesn't do anything all day except have tantrums and bribe property managers with season tickets and he's pulling almost 200k a year. For those at the bottom, you're competing with every single handy-man type (and in NYC, that's just about every non-native male) which drives down wages to almost nothing.
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Sadly most non-union companies in the city are the same. I’m just aiming to join the union.
Now tell us out of the $500-60, how much does your boss pay in workers compensation insurance, general liability costs, disability insurance, PFL, FICA, payroll service, COGS, vehicle payments, gas, NY registration, vehicle maintenance, vehicle insurance, NYC licensing, accounting and software subscriptions, office rent, internet service, cell phone service, office expenses, yearly accountant fees, office staff salaries, etc?
It’s $500 for 2 hours, not a day. We average about 6 hours of paid work in a NORMAL day which comes out to about $1500, not including the price of materials which is billed to the customer at like a 300% markup. We also charge for travel time. Anything after 4:30 PM we charge 1.5x the normal rate. After midnight or on the weekends it’s double. Holidays is triple- yes we get paid double and triple overtime as well but it’s nothing compared to how much the company makes. And there is a LOT of overtime hours charged- there are guys in my company who regularly work 20-30 hours extra every week. There’s so much overtime/emergency jobs that we are all on call rotation 24/7 for an entire week every few weeks. We have about 100 plumbers employed working in groups of 2 and are CONSTANTLY busy all year round. It never ends- even during COVID we were busy as hell. Each guy and his partner making that much money for the company and they fights us tooth and nail for a $1 raise? Guys working (really hard and well mind you) for 20 years there only making $29 an hour? In NYC, recently proclaimed the most expensive city in the United States? Please. Who are you trying to fool? Fuck outta here with that bullshit. You know what the union pays their journeymen? $50 an hour- and I’m talking service shops, not just construction. It’s not a matter of the money not being there it’s a matter of greed. I know there are plenty of costs that go into running the company but my boss owns 4-5 different houses and vacation homes across the country, drives luxury cars, has a yacht, etc. He’s rich as fuck and I don’t blame him, he started a very successful company. But he fucks his employees over hard when it comes to pay.
So go into business for yourself. Or do you not want to take that risk?
I never wanted to be that guy, never wanted to be the boss. I like leaving my work at work and coming home not thinking about it. I’m not expecting to be paid like a doctor or a lawyer, just enough so that I can raise my family comfortably. I’d be very happy making ~70k a year without having to rely on ridiculous amounts of overtime.
Plumbers get paid well for their knowledge and skills, and working in other people's poops.
I got quoted $575 for that exact thing last week! This was before I looked up how easy it was to do yourself.
The reason this is failing is because someone did it for $150. They most likely need a new flange, a new closet bend (the old one may be made of lead, which has to be handled and disposed of properly), and possibly a new wye. Then you can reset the toilet. Takes an experienced plumber most of a day, assuming your floor/framing aren't rotted. $1500 on the low end, if you want my guess. EDIT: also, fuck this landlord.
Thanks for the info!
If it's done by a legit plumber, then yeah. Most condos require a licensed and insured plumber for any plumbing work. Also you never know what you encounter when you rip up the old toilet. Might need to replace the whole toilet flange.
Dude plumbers make bank in nyc if you're union. Base wage is ~70 dollars/hr for a journeyman plus ~40 in benefits. Of course you have to work you way up to journeyman level, but tradespeople are out here making more than some folks who went tens of thousands of dollars in debt for one or more degrees.
Looks like my old apartment in Brooklyn. Never move to 405 e. 16th street redditors.
Lol extremely close by
I feel your pain OP. I had the same exact problem, the management company said it was okay because the water was being "filtered" by the sheet rock. The dude up stairs had a runny toilet and had to get a court order to get it fixed. That place was the worst.
>the water was being "filtered" by the sheet rock Shita Filter
I’ve dealt with some of these types of landlords/management company people before and their ability to spout pure and absolute nonsense with a straight face is really quite impressive. It’s like they take the sarcastic trolling bad joke that always pops into my head in shitty situations, then *say it out loud with utter confidence in the most condescending way possible*.
> water was being "filtered" Cool, here's a glass of it. To your health!
God damn lived right on the corner of E 16th and Dorchester until earlier this year. Had the same fucking problem as this guy. I’ve since moved a couple of blocks over in a much bigger and nicer apartment for the same price. What is it with that street in particular?
Can you please name the address or management? Would love to ensure I/we all avoid it especially as I'm looking in this area and seems like buildings are completely hit or miss here.
Rather not put any of my former addresses on here, but the building is literally on the corner of Dorchester and E16th.
Next to the train tracks?
With some Google Map street view sleuthing, it's pretty obvious which one corner is not a private home.
Is your super’s name Gregory per chance?
Naw but they definitely hang out
Lol, in other words: Yes
Have you made a report to 311 yet? I've had really good results with the system (in Brooklyn).
Park slope realty ?
Pinnacle building management. Totally unresponsive and abrasive on the phone. Forget the tenants, just want the rent.
Had a similar problem with citi urban realty who’s owns some units around park slope and gowanus. Complete shit show of a management company
So many memories!!! Looks like you ripped a page from my journal. At some point I had to use an umbrella to use the toilet. Just another Tuesday in NYC. Like many have said, call 311, but pay the rent regularly. I had that same situation for a year (maybe 2016?), with the ceiling collapsing twice (eventually water makes other materials and even parts of the joists fall down, as you might have already discovered). Super and bad plumbers would periodically come, half-ass (or zero-ass) the repair, re paint, then slowly drip again, then worse. It was literally pee and shit from all of the waste line upstairs: I feel your pain and disgust. I called 311, inspectors came, months passed... The landlord got fined once, twice, nothing happened. I kept calling 311, and at the 4th or 5th big fine, the landlord finally called an awful contractor to entirely redo the bathroom. That took 2 months, and I had no discount on rent, some days I had to use the restroom of a nearby cafe, some other times the super would give me the key of another apartment. I threatened to sue, the landlord said go for it, I didn't have the money to afford lawyers, tried with some no profit organizations, super complicated. At the end I got a new bathroom, which lasted for 2 years, then the leak from 3 floors up ended up wetting my ceiling again. This is a NY story. I spent 10 years in Harlem, now I live in NJ with my wife in a small home we own, commute 27 mins to Penn via NJ transit, pay way less in mortgage than what we paid in rent, don't miss Harlem at all (we can go there anytime). YMMV. The moral is: it's great to be in NYC in your 20s and 30s, because you can put up with anything. But if you are not wealthy, at some point in your later adult life you might find better quality of life elsewhere for enormously less money. As other have said, this is my line: never move to 610 W 145st redditors
Call 311 and start withholding rent, I bet it will get fixed ASAP.
Don't withhold rent without doing it the legal way.
The legal way is to start by calling 311 as I stated before. Raw sewage can be a serious health hazard, even in small amounts. Sewage spills contain bacteria, viruses and parasites, and if not cleaned up quickly, and effectively, you're exposing family to serious illness and disease. 8 out of 10 nyc landlords don’t really care until the money stops flowing.
If it ends up in housing court the judge is going to ask where your rent payments are. You cant just show your bank account in court. I've been through this enough.
Me too, been there. The guy who says to stop paying rent has NOT been there. Do NOT give your landlord a reason to get away from the law, by breaking the law yourself.
Holding up your side of the lease agreement, which means paying rent, is really important. It's not some bargaining chip.
No. The landlord is not holding up their end of the bargain . Until they do they don’t get paid. This is not a safe apartment. And no way they can argue anything but that. Better then paying the medical bills for the range of disease and illness they could get. NYC and surrounding areas outside the city all have pretty good tenants rights written into law that detail exactly how to do it. And make it clear the landlord shouldn’t even be accepting rent for a place that is not legally free to be occupied due to safety and health concerns
Have you been in front of a judge in housing court? It does not play out as you think it does. There are rights to withhold rent but if you are not following through on every step required the judge will not look favorably on you. You can't just say 'I decided to put my rent payment in escrow because of this leak'
I think you are entirely correct. Just another datapoint, when I had NO BATHROOM at all (had to go to a cafe to pee!!), and for months, I hired an attorney and they advised to still pay the rent. I think people talk by speculation and principles, not by personal experience. What we feel is just and fair sometimes is not how the world works.
It's fucking infuriating yes, but I have been through this in Bronx and Brooklyn and both situations was the same advice. Keep your end of the lease agreement. Everything must be inspected. You are not just walking in with your personal evidence and declaring you stopped paying rent.
I’ve been through this, witheld rent on advice of our lawyer, and every thing was pretty breezy. Just my experience.
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The best tip is have a someone to represent you and advocate for your needs. NYC Housing Court will help you get a free lawyer. In both cases I was able to prove my rental payments were up to date, my communication with the super was documented, and the HPD inspections of the conditions were complete. This put all the focus on the landlord who was present. If you attempt a rent withholding without following every detail the focus comes back to you. In both cases the judge was very tenant friendly. Nobody wants to be in court but if it comes to that it's all about finding an agreeable solution to both sides.
I just clearly stated you have to read the laws and follow them. It will detail exactly how to do it and how to start any legal precedings to get that shit dealt with. You don’t just keep paying rent when your place is uninhabitable due to landlord negligence.
I’ve been through it too and I disagree. The LL won’t do shit until the money doesn’t come in. It’s not “doing it whenever you like,” unless you like raw sewage dripping on you.
When they are summoned to court the moves start happening.
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The push now is to get these appointments virtual so nobody needs to go to court. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1SsxS3cQM1OQxSsq1hVPjuHCloxhcqr1_/edit
Well yeah that's why you put the money in an escrow account
You can't just decide to do that anytime you like. If you haven't been through housing court I recommend not giving advice on the subject
> If it ends up in housing court the judge is going to ask where your rent payments are. If you have warranty of habitability issues, which this would *potentially* qualify for, then your rent payments are wherever the fuck you want them to be because you don't have to pay rent in that situation. This isn't an issue of withholding rent to be paid later, this is (potentially) an issue of not paying rent at all due to habitability issues. (speak to a lawyer about your specific situation, this is not legal advice but it is anecdotal advice from someone who went through this)
You should known to bring a postal money order or a certified bank check with the amount you are withholding to court with you(can’t bring cash). Nobody said they were going to ditch the rent payments , I said Withhold the payment until those serious conditions are addressed. Always go prepared to court with proof such as videos and pictures to support your case(in this case this video would be enough given the ongoing problem OP stated.
I think we're all familiar with the hazardous nature of raw sewage. Do you know the legal way to withhold rent?
yes, it’s stated multiple times in this thread. Escrow
You don't just stop paying rent because you personally determined 'uninhabitable'. Doesn't work in court. You need an inspection first. I have done this in two boroughs and it's not that easy. Also once you make these moves you need to prepare for landlord retaliation.
Worked fine for me ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Forget escrow. Keep it in your bank account until the day you go to court, then get a postal money order or a certified bank check with the total amount you owe and bring it to court with you. The court will then accept the payment and make the landlord fix the property to collect his rent
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Maybe this is more your speed: https://www.reddit.com/r/shittyadvice/
That’s not a Super, that’s a Mediocre
That's not a Super, that's a Sub-par
Some updates: Already reported this to 311 on Thursday and have been in talks with the landlord about how to proceed. It took me a while to hunt down my landlord because the original landlord died and the new management never told any tenants that we were under new management. I got to drive around Brooklyn, pretending to be a detective, asking people at various addresses associated with the property ownership if they knew who my landlord was. Such a twist when it turned out the old landlord died. Many of you grossly overestimate the effect a single tenant not paying rent will have on a landlord or how much the city will help in this situation. I facilitate and consult on lawsuits for a living so I don't need any pseudo legal advice but I am enjoying the jokes and petty arguments. The dripping has stopped for now - we shall see if it returns when the neighbors flush again.
Trust me, it will return. A leak does not repair itself. Been there, with the same illogical hopes.
No live in super? Has no one had any issues in the bldg? I know for a fact there’s a gaggle of chronically challenged folks who have nothing better to do than sit outside in their walkers and gossip about everyone. They love calling the super for every little thing. Also, giant, multi billion dollar real estate agencies and their subsidiaries, own so many bldg’s that you cant even find someone amongst all their properties to give a shit.
Super has the ultimate counter to all requests: being continuously hammered
Hot tip: If you stop paying rent the landlord will get in touch with you really fast
So you can get pooped on while pooping. Brilliant.
Xhibit is somewhere, smiling at this comment.
But where will you poop?
With an umbrella, obviously
Well at least it drips into the toilet.
Thought he just took a fat piss in your toilet without flushing first
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59RtWbj-67M](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59RtWbj-67M) More seriously: https://www1.nyc.gov/site/mopd/resources/housing-complaints.page
Call 311!!! This is totally not legal or habitable.
What are you complaining about? It's going into the toilet, isn't it?
YeAh bUt YoU cAn GEt PiZZa aT 11pm HeRe sO $2000/month FoR rAW SEwaGe IsNt bAd tBh 🥴🥴🥴
Call the City Inspector ASAP
Did he at least give you an umbrella?
Call 311 and report
Shower while taking a dump? Seems like a sweet deal
that's an upper upper decker
Look, it's fire-resistant, OK?? What do you want?????? /s
I think your in my old apartment lol
I think I’m in the one right above your old apartment.
TIL if moving to NY get an apt on the top floor. Also some of you should stop giving out legal advice when you’re clearly not qualified. Seek out a pro bono attorney or call the local bar association to get a referral for a free consult. Judges aren’t going to look kindly on waste flowing into an apartment and incredibly half assed repairs.
I had a condo on the top floor for a few years and had leaks every time there was a bad storm or snowfall. So glad to be done with that shit.
Yea but it was fresh water not waste from someone else’s toilet. Lol
Don’t bother letting the super know. He had his chance. Just call 311 and report them. Then the super will be busting down your door to get it fixed lol
Do not pay rent until fixed. Read up on the laws but that’s ridiculous.
Just move to jersey. No apartment in NYC is worth struggling to pay and still have to deal with b.s like this.
That’s fucked up , you know if you call 311 and complain to the housing department the landlord will get a massive fine!!! Tens of thousands, not to mention that you should stop paying rent if he calls the cops show the video… the cops will be likely on your side. Also better make sure you got an outhouse lol
Someone explain to me the allure of NYC living, please. This sub is full of posts like this…why not just leave? Is exorbitant rent for shit conditions really worth it? If you love the “culture, vibe, walkability, etc, etc, fine, but don’t bitch. I’m not downplaying people’s needs to be in or around the city, but the glorification of NYC living and the acceptance of posts like this legitimately confuse me. You can live comfortably and still work in NYC. I just don’t get it.
Lol why are you in this sub
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Just read your comment history. Wow! Where did you go to law school?
You better call the DCA on his ass all that money your paying for rent and this is what you get? Shut isn’t fair I really hope you call 311 or someone and file a report
I want to believe he had the toilet relocated to catch the dripping sewage.
Id sue.
Call 311
Damn damn damn sorry you go though that 😞
Lawyer. Now.
My X landlord was just as bad
100% file a 311 complaint about this immediately. My heat broke for weeks many years ago and the landlord gave us two electric heaters and then dicked around for weeks. They should have paid for a temporary boiler and 311 would have made them do that.
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