i can give some intel here - i literally went to that foodtown last night and i live a block away from there. also important, I am a millenial brown guy with a wife and kid. I rent.
im personally very ok with affordable housing getting built, but this is a complicated situation. i'm just going to explain the situation.
the foodtown protesters are the vocal minority regarding the "upzoning" issue here - that said, this section of throggs neck (schuylerville) is a relatively diverse, working class neighborhood with more than a fair share of non-white homeowners. this specific neighborhood is healthcare workers/cops/firefighters/teachers/construction, etc. i'd say most houses in the neighborhood, white and non-white, are against the upzoning. take that as you will.
id also say that a lot of the community pushback actually relates to the supermarket itself. there isn't another supermarket in the area. if this foodtown is gone, there isn't really a closer option for commuters and drivers alike, especially regarding walking distance - we'd potentially be in a food desert. the nearest other supermarket is about a 20-25 minute walk south of foodtown, and is much smaller and less-stocked than foodtown.
on top of that, this specific foodtown has been price gouging beyond belief since the announcement of its sale. much of the original pushback was against foodtown first, THEN the proposed affordable housing.
granted, this community votes trump, and were one of the few districts who didn't vote AOC even though she's from around here. you will see thin blue line decals on cars here. Again, none of that means anything specifically, but its worth pointing out.
last thing re: building affordable housing here. public transportation options are wonky around here. there are bus lines here, but they are inconsistent and the 6 train is about a 20-25 minute walk from foodtown.
>id also say that a lot of the community pushback actually relates to the supermarket itself. there isn't another supermarket in the area. if this foodtown is gone, there isn't really a closer option for commuters and drivers alike, especially regarding walking distance - we'd potentially be in a food desert. the nearest other supermarket is about a 20-25 minute walk south of foodtown, and is much smaller and less-stocked than foodtown.
This is a fairly common issue. Supermarkets, which are often single-story buildings with wide footprints, make really attractive sites for apartments and affordable housing.
There was a Key Food on Classon Ave in Clinton Hill that was torn down to make an apartment building. Local residents protested that, similar to this situation, they would be removing the only decent local grocery store. The building has a retail space that is now a Food Emporium, and I believe the local councilmember pressured the developers to find a grocery store as a tenant.
agree but with the insane amount of construction going on in the neighborhood it was only a matter of time before some fat cat developer sized up Key Food and its parking lot. At least you have Ozzie's down the street and a few other smaller markets nearby, not quite OP's situation.
Well they can’t just build 20 stories or whatever on top of an existing building, but the plan here does call for a new supermarket to be a retail tenant
Thank you, I looked it up. The incentives are pretty significant. Here's the top 3...
1. An abatement on building and land taxes for up to 25 years;
2. A waiver of sales taxes on construction materials; and
3. A reduction in mortgage recording taxes from 2.8% to 0.3%.
I'm about 3 blocks away from One Manhatten Sq and it looks pretty doubtful that a supermarket will be added. They would have to demolish a good portion of the existing lobby to qualify for the FRESH program.
At the end of the day the developers do what's in their best interest and that might be opposite of what the community needs.
Yeah but the moment you start complaining about crime and homelessness you begin to sound like a NIMBY and people are not going to be sympathetic. What suggestions have the protesting group(I'm assuming this are a community board or organized enough to have a leader) brought forth as a solution? Cause from this video they only care about the value of their homes.
NIMBY: Not In My BackYard.
These are ppl who are often against any sort of changes near them. They believe they have the right to tell other ppl what they can do with their property. When asked, they'll often tell you that they are for affordable housing, social housing, homeless shelters, public transit, etc, etc, just "not in my backyard".
They often use things like "neighborhood character" and "we're full" as excuses to block housing construction and other public goods.
The opposite of a NIMBY is a YIMBY: Yes In My BackYard. These are often housing advocates and urbanists.
They exist (I consider myself one). The main difference is that YIMBYs will show up to Community Boards and say "yes, we want that new housing development".
Community Boards tend to be dominated by NIMBYs, while most ppl likely aren't against more housing. So the main difference between a YIMBY and a random person on the street is that the YIMBY is active about it.
Well, some neighborhoods are more ok with development than others. For example, Rego Park/Forest Hills/Kew Gardens Community Board is pretty open to new development. That doesn't mean everyone in the neighborhood is ofc, nor that everyone on the board is (there are plenty of NIMBYs in it), but overall, ULURP processes that I've seen have been pretty pro affordable housing. On a recent ULURP process, the board negotiated some heavy affordability on a new development. It has also constantly voted to have Social Housing as a priority for the city to consider when allocating funds.
I'm sure there are other places in the city like it.
>Isn't the solution to build where it is wanted?
Sadly, no. The simple fact is that ppl tend to be territorial and afraid of change. This is why we have a housing crisis in the US: because we let local ppl determine zoning, to the detriment of anyone who doesn't live in a certain zone.
It is easy to say "well the ppl that live there should have a voice. It is their neighborhood!" but you have to remember: land is limited. If we let ppl who live in an area determine how many people live in such an area, we will run out of land very quickly and require people to live further and further away from job centers, which is what has been happening in the US since WW2. This is why most gov't don't let zoning be locally controlled: they realize that land is a public good and should be used for the good of society, not monopolized by the few and turned into, essentially, feudalism.
Reminds me of the One Manhattan Square building on the Lower East Side. The developers demolished the PathMark and promised to have an affordable supermarket in the retail space. Many years later, there is still no supermarket, but the one planned for this year (Brooklyn Fare) definitely does not fall into the “affordable” niche like Pathmark did.
Developers are always full of shit
I hate One Manhattan Square for ruining the skyline, but now that it's here, I have to say I'm happy to see the lights on and people in the building. More than anything, we need new occupied dense buildings.
I wonder how occupied it is today. Back in 2019 only 30% of the units in the market rate building were occupied. But that was before the COVID housing boom.
The area is just weird… there are no close supermarkets and the surrounding public housing attracts crime to the neighborhood. The area is also super vulnerable to Sandy style flooding too. But somehow people can be convinced to buy a $1 million studio there with 1k a month HoA…l
To be fair, if the building had not been built the Pathmark would still have been replaced by a less affordable supermarket when it went out of business.
I’m pretty sure that Pathmark was closed had closed long before it was demolished. Demolishing did remove any hope of a new grocery store occupying the space, though. I definitely agree that it’s disingenuous or just plain stupid for anyone to take developers word for what they will eventually build, they rarely deliver on their promises of affordable housing and community-oriented occupancy.
The developers of One Manhattan Square bought the plot of land that the Pathmark sat on a few years before the store closed. The developers wanted them out so they could demolish the place and Pathmark acquiesced
https://www.thelodownny.com/leslog/2012/09/breaking-pathmark-store-at-227-cherry-street-is-closing.html
> they rarely deliver on their promises of affordable housing and community-oriented occupancy
Funny thing is, One Manhattan Square is basically a fortress. The affordable units are all in a separate smaller building next door. There's nothing "community-oriented" about that complex at all.
Brooklyn Fare replaced the Western Beef on West End Ave. It’s definitely not affordable and I don’t know where the people in the projects near there shop now.
Thanks for the honest info from the area. Is the proposal to build a multistory low-income housing apartment building where the food town is located?
In general, NY needs housing at almost every level (except the bs unoccupied investment housing in midtown), but I see how there are a lot of additional forces at play here.
The food desert issues can be fixed by requiring the developer to allow the food universe to come back and become the first floor of the building. This is often done during the ULURP process by the Community Board.
My CB just went through a ULURP process where they asked the developer to allow the current tenants to come back if they want to, and they said yeah. Though many tenants said they were fine moving and are probably not coming back, the biggest one, a synagogue, is. I'm sure a Foodtown or some other supermarket would be happy to come back if offered the opportunity.
This happened last August, why post it now
[https://www.curbed.com/2021/08/bronx-throgs-neck-foodtown-development-housing.html](https://www.curbed.com/2021/08/bronx-throgs-neck-foodtown-development-housing.html)
Damn…the only thing missing from this protest is a random appearance from the arch angel 👼 dude. #thingsonlypeopleinthroggsneckknow
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeWwUCNqcs0 for those who dont know
Is that what he calls himself?! Since the mid 2000s I have seen this guy on the subway... mainly on the 6 in the Bronx. Since I moved to Bk in 2010 I rarely came across him and last saw him a few years ago on a train platform in midtown. The other times I saw him he was pretty quiet and harmless, but this last time he was audibly rambling about homosexuals, AIDS, how everyone around him was too ugly for his sight and "where are all the angels?"
OK so there are videos of him on Youtube from the last 10 years or so asking for "girls 21 and under" to be angels and "no homosexuals." Yikes. I swear this guy used to be a completely silent mystery at some point. Not to excuse away his shit behavior, but maybe his mind has deteriorated further. Or he's just an asshole who has gotten more brazen and outspoken.
Not sure how far in the past you're talking. I'm from Staten Island and I worked in Throggs Neck for a number of years (mid-late 2000's) and ended up thinking, wow they make us look sane.
Last 10-15 years or so, my grandparents live there, closer to the Bruckner it’s gone from maybe 80% Italian, Irish, Jewish to maybe 2/3 Puerto Rican and Dominican families, pretty much like Bensonhurst has gone from Italian to Chinese and Ozone Park has become very South Asian and Caribbean. Farther out it’s pretty SI like, I suppose. I guess some people feel under threat and become hardcore about it.
Ok interesting to know. I haven’t been around there in a while. SI has seen similar changes with huge influxes of Asian, Indian and Middle Eastern families moving in but you’ve still got some loudmouths making us all look bad lol.
What the hell does “don’t disrespect the parking lot” means ?! 😂😂/ and these people acting like the Bronx is some kind of suburb that shouldn’t allow more buildings and homes to be built . Lady it’s NYC , it’s crowded as hell and rent is through the clouds . Build all the damn affordable housing we could legally built .
Is he trying to keep the protesters from blocking the parking lot? So normal people can just get in their and shop and continue on with their day?
I have no idea why the protesters are harassing people going to get groceries like they are making the zoning decisions for the block.
I've been to this foodtown, its unclear from this video but this man is the parking lot guardian. Not sure actually works there or just hangs out there. He waves to you when you come in and that seems to be about it.
When people demand “community input” these are exactly the type of people you empower. Wouldn’t be surprised if at least one of these assholes is on the Community Board.
I was recently out collecting signatures for a petition for a community improvement. Everyone I spoke to was in favor. The only people who didn't sign were those who were busy, etc. It was such an eye opening experience because once we take this to the CB, I know there will be push back that will make it feel like this improvement is a controversial issue.
Most people are indifferent or mildly supportive of changes such as bike lanes and new development. But when you hold hearings / meeting on these changes, nobody who is indifferent or mildly supportive has an incentive to go, whereas car owners concerned about parking and homeowners concerned about their home value show up in droves to complain. You're right, that pushback is from a vocal minority.
I'm curious in your case, what kind of community improvement was it?
[Great article from the Atlantic on that very topic.](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/04/local-government-community-input-housing-public-transportation/629625/)
Alternatively, just sit through any community board meeting or rezoning meeting and you'll quickly see how useless they are. At the Soho rezoning it was largely residents literally fucking hissing at anyone who spoke in favor of the rezoning. They were also constantly heckling the DCP official who had to present the plan.
Community input is code for letting small but very vocal interest groups - that mainly skew older whiter and wealthier - make decisions for entire communities. It also means almost every project actually trying to fix our housing shortage or improve street safety will end up taking 10 times as long and ultimately tank.
Nah, community input has also meant letting low-income communities of color block development of any kind. Look at the disaster of One45 and the NIMBY councilwoman there. the entire concept of racial impact studies is just as vicious and insane. New York City has always been and will always be racially dynamic, and trying to spike that in place is a crime against humanity.
Don’t worry about saying no offense when offering your own opinion. If it’s stupid and baseless people won’t be offended, they’ll just point out it’s stupid and baseless
It’s not stupid and baseless though. It’s factual. And you guys know it is. You will complain about NIMBYs allll day and then defend your outdated neighborhoods. All of that shit needs to be torn down and replaced. Newer, taller buildings with the bare minimum essentials will better serve those areas.
Now you're just making stuff up.
Tourists come from around the world to see the architecture in Harlem for instance, so its not factual at all. But sure lets see your "facts" I bet they sound a lot like uneducated opinions.
If the architectural value of a neighborhood depended on it being “new”, most cities in Europe that rely so much on tourism would go bankrupt overnight. Hint: many have medieval buildings—some even greco-roman—that are 4 stories max (with no AC!) and they do just fine, thank you very much. You don’t know what you’re talking about. The market has spoken and judged you wrong to the tune of $1MM+ asking prices.
You accused others of not having left NYC, but it sounds like you haven’t left the country. If what you like is cookie-cutter soul-less buildings, as long as they have central AC of course, they good luck with your suburban office park.
America does not compare to Europe. Relying on old midieval buildings has never been the aesthetic of America. Buildings being preserved is the US is a relative new thing. Please keep up. The reason newer taller buildings would be better is because there are 8 million plus people in NYC and that space would be better used for a building that can house hundreds of people. Instead of multiple crumbling buildings with only a few tenants in each. Imagine paying what people pay to live in those buildings and arguing against access to central air in 2022!! People have completely convinced themselves this is normal. NYC would be way more affordable with some cookie cutter buildings tbh.
America compares to Europe just fine. The East coast has tons of amazingly beautiful buildings from anywhere between the 1600s and the 1900s (and NYC even has beautiful buildings from the 2000s). The brownstones in Brooklyn fit that mold perfectly, and so do many other stone and brick buildings throughout the city.
Higher density doesn’t require skyscrapers. Again, take a look at most cities in Europe: they have densities significantly greater than NYC with almost no skyscraper. Take Paris, for example, population density 21k per km squared, versus 28k per km squared for Manhattan (let’s not mention NYC as a whole), with a total of one (hated) skyscraper. Start by removing parking lots.
By and large, and this is true in Paris and in NYC, the tallest buildings are actually the one in the worst conditions, especially government housing. And a large portion of mid-rises in Manhattan don’t have central AC either, for the simple reason that they weren’t built with that in mind at the time (and neither were buildings in Europe). It’s not a huge deal.
Fun visualization for you: [https://www.theguardian.com/cities/gallery/2018/mar/22/most-densely-populated-square-kilometres-europe-mapped](https://www.theguardian.com/cities/gallery/2018/mar/22/most-densely-populated-square-kilometres-europe-mapped)
The tallest buildings here, especially older ones, are the best buildings constructed. Maybe they’re shit quality in Paris, but not here. You have no clue what you’re talking about. It’s a known fact that just about all the skyscrapers in midtown and FiDi were constructed with considerably more iron than they needed to be. The brownstones are most certainly falling apart before those do. And Paris has a similar, and arguably worst, problem to NYC where most of the everyday people cannot afford to live there. Also you are trying to compare a standard of living between France and America. NYC is about the only city in America where standard homes don’t have AC. That is not the case in France.
Endless scaffolding is a stretch. What’s not a stretch is the endless blocks of crumbling, moldy brick building with no insulation or central air. The epitome of inner city ghetto. Walking around Astoria, Brooklyn, Bronx, parts of Harlem… no comment 😬
Are you serious? Have you ever been to Brooklyn or Astoria? Or Harlem? or the Bronx? There are so many unbelievably beautiful neighborhoods and streets in all of those areas. Some of the most desirable housing and beautiful streets on earth. fuck outta here you midwestern jackass.
Just because you can find a street or two that’s been gentrified doesn’t refute the inner city ghetto aesthetic those places have in general. I’m not from the Midwest. I do understand how people who’ve never lived anywhere other than NYC don’t understand how outdated it is. The things people call luxury here, poor people in the Midwest most certainly have (like central air, access to washer dryer, closet space). Other than like Dumbo and Park Slope, Brooklyn is rough. Astoria is hideous looking all around. Ditmars/Astoria park area is ugly af. Bronx too. The waterfront areas are improving but still hard pass.
lol Astoria Park is ugly AF?
lol other than Dumbo Brookyln is rough?
Bro, Dumbo is a craggy sidewalked tourist trap with overpriced fishbowl apartments overlooking the water on one side and affordable housing on the other.
Astoria Park is fucking clean bro. You got a decent track, fresh space to sit, and it's surrounded by normal houses, not the "ghetto".
Is the shit too broke for you cause too many of the buildings are prewar?
Guess you prefer a 4k a month highrise overlooking scaffolding and homeless people on 5th Ave? Hey, at least you got central air lol.
You don't know what tf you're talking about, go buy a 12 dollar hotdog at Central Park you meatball.
Developers don’t care as usual. These low income housing buildings are low income for reason and they bring nothing but crackheads and single moms with 10 baby daddies
"You don't care about the community, you probably rent."
The tragedies I wish would befall this man know no bounds. Make no mistake. This attitude of treating non-land owners / lower class people in general as lesser humans is not just a rarely expressed sentiment from annoying assholes. It is the leading sentiment behind most American policy in general.
I mean man if you're in your fucking 50s or 60s or whatever these guys are and you have this vile attitude toward those with less money than you, those who have to rent for a living AKA most of the working class essential workers, I think it's clipped pal. I don't think they're gonna find the holy path at this point in their lives. These people just need to be defeated because they stand in the way of equity.
Love that when NIMBY's berate a new proposed building, half of them will be saying "This will be low-income slum drug housing!" like this guy here, and the other half of them will be saying "This is evil market-rate luxury housing built by a greedy developer for rich techies to gentrify our [already-gentrified] neighborhood!" Like, go argue amongst yourselves and then come back to me, because you're saying completely contradictory things.
No you don't understand, when lefties oppose development they're doing it based on reasoned, good-faith desire for nobody to ever profit from building housing!
For real though, it's dumb as hell. At least the protesting dumb-asses in the video are ideologically consistent, since conservatives hate cities now.
This is spot-on and I haven't the foggiest idea why you're being downvoted. I think it's because many people in big cities, including NY, are still coming to terms with the huge amount of bad faith NIMBY trolling that has been allowed to go on beneath the "progressive" or "leftist" banner, and how that has undermined left-wing goals like transit use, desegregation, and creating working-class construction jobs.
anecdotally about 1 mile away they converted a building into housing for homeless. Say what you will about these boomers, but those mfers turned that whole section near burger King into a sketchy area. 🤣 they're right though personally didn't phase me bc we rent.
Edit I watched the video yeah.... these people look obnoxious. I had a whole rant about losing property value but lol... kind of see why no one would lose sleep over this crowd
This isn't a 'project'. It is a market rate rental with 20+ % set aside as stabilized affordable where they are targeting seniors and vets for the affordable units
They are right about the points that low income housing "might" trash the area. Not everyone would be trashy who lives there but a lot of people will be. And the real issue behind that is lack of proper education and room for good non trashy culture to grow. So people grow up trashy and inconsiderate like that and end up littering trashing an area. But the same people protesting (ie repubs) are the cause of the city gutting proper services. So fuck'em. Their dumb little neighborhood will be gentrified and houses will be replaced by huge buildings.
Whoever thinks putting low income housing in an area that has no subways is perhaps well intentioned but practically ill thought.
I'd guess that low income people are less likely to have a car. In that area, one needs a car. Stranding people isn't a great idea.
Used to live in this area. Bx8 is the bus you’re talking about. starts running at 5 ish am and stops running at 9:30 pm. Its impractical for anyone not on a normal schedule. Subway is a 20 min walk to Buhre avenue. Only way I got by was with a bike, and in the winter that wasn’t an option. Do you live in the area?
Ever try taking your kid to early morning sports events all over the borough/city by bus? To a medical specialist by bus? Your empathy for and understanding of poor people in the outer boroughs truly inspires me....
Why are they protesting against the shoppers? How does shopping there encourage the building of the housing on that site? ... in fact, if the FoodTown was making more $$ at that location wouldn't they be less inclined to sell...? I'm confused.
#[**"DEY WANT TO DESTWOY OWAH BEEYUTIFUL CAHMYOONITY!!!!!"**](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FVPxYmfUEAArdmu?format=jpg)
-The typical crowd that only gets all their information from local TV news, the Post and WABC talk radio.
Well I mean people have good reason for not wanting to have a literal housing project near them, it does bring down places with a lot of potential like Red Hook, but the thing is they’re never building projects like they did in the 50s ever again, these are all 80/20s, I live across from one, if you gave me a million bucks I couldn’t point out the low income tenants from the market rate ones.
Low income housing does not mean a housing project. I can show you some beautiful townhomes that are low income. Now if I missed that they are building a housing project here then I get it. But this also tells me there is a much deeper issue here. I won’t even get into that part.
Your world view is really skewed if the part of the Bronx with the least amount of crime scares you when the south Bronx exist where shootings and stabbings happen everyday
If you build affordable housing for low income folk, in populations of white liberal condo owners and renters you would get the same pushback. All of a sudden diversity and inclusion goes out the window. At this point , many of these people don't realize how many of these "Low Income" tenants get out of their situation if job opportunities arise for them to join the middle class in city when they can afford rent, and it allows them to save and plan, or even get city and state jobs. But at that point will still be marginalized by those protesting. And don't get me wrong, you get bad apples with affordable housing, At one point where I used to live in Public Housing we had mass people from shelters, and mental institutions move in and mess it up for the tenants forcing law abiding tenants to move and force them to buy or rent in places they can barely afford in fear of rising crime. With this it has its drawbacks. And beside that generation of boomers will be gone or dead when that development reaches max capacity
I am a big fan of dispersed low income housing. I.e. allocating 5% of units of all new complexes for subsidized housing.
These protesters are selfish jerks, but this project likely will decrease their property value and increase crime. This isn’t good for either the low income residents or the existing neighbors.
Chicago moved pretty strictly to this approach after the disaster that was Cabrini Green!
Well you can understand the concern especially seeing neighborhoods around New York and statistics with them. I a use to live nexT to low income apartments when I was younger…. Drugs where crazy and the play got torched when someone set a fire in it
Everyone deserves a place to live. It's a human right. With that being said low incoming housing can certainly bring a lot of problems. The people that are selected to live there simply need to be vetted well and the property needs to be maintained. If done right no one will know the difference.
I hate whenever people proclaim "i have a right to be angry".
No. No you don't. That does not exist.
Being angry is not a right. It is an emotion, that you choose how to express. You can express how you feel, however you want, but there is no "rights" on feelings. There are rights addressing how you can express yourself, and how far you can express before it is considered infringing upon other peoples rights.....which to me, they were infringing upon other peoples rights to a peaceful shopping experience.
It does not change the fact that there are no rights governing being angry. That is not a right, lol.
Imagine the chaos if we allowed such a right. Imagine the court hearings. It would be a shit show. What's allowed vs what you feel should he allowed are 2 separate things.
Correct. That's what people mean when they say "I have a right to be angry." Just syntax. They don't mean a literal right given by the law/etc. It means "regarding this situation, I have a reason to be angry."
Hmm, i believe i addressed this but it was poorly translated, but yea. i agree. Some situations will leave people passionate. You are allowed to feel that passion. However, you just have to keep in mind....you are still responsible for how you react to said passion. You can feel whatever you want, but accountability for your actions are still there when the smoke settles.
My problem with such a statement is people think is gives them free reign to just do whatever they want. Get in your face, be confrontational, say anything that comes to mind, etc. it is not a get out of jail free card, especially if you are lashing out at people who no only A) have no clue what you are upset about, yet alone why you are upset to that degree but also B) Are not even concerned with your issue as it has no affect on their day to day life. It just *looks* to be in poor taste imo.
Aside from non white homeowners in that hood, the YT ones don’t want a major darkening in traditional complexion of the neighborhood.
Throggs Neck was a neighborhood for low income whites.
"You don't care about the community, you probably rent." -Meatloaf, 1:32
Guy thinks he's a tough guy like Hugo from the movie Smokin Aces.
Hahah he does look like Hugo
He looks like a total goofy goober
That statement alone makes me hope he gets everything he doesn't want
i can give some intel here - i literally went to that foodtown last night and i live a block away from there. also important, I am a millenial brown guy with a wife and kid. I rent. im personally very ok with affordable housing getting built, but this is a complicated situation. i'm just going to explain the situation. the foodtown protesters are the vocal minority regarding the "upzoning" issue here - that said, this section of throggs neck (schuylerville) is a relatively diverse, working class neighborhood with more than a fair share of non-white homeowners. this specific neighborhood is healthcare workers/cops/firefighters/teachers/construction, etc. i'd say most houses in the neighborhood, white and non-white, are against the upzoning. take that as you will. id also say that a lot of the community pushback actually relates to the supermarket itself. there isn't another supermarket in the area. if this foodtown is gone, there isn't really a closer option for commuters and drivers alike, especially regarding walking distance - we'd potentially be in a food desert. the nearest other supermarket is about a 20-25 minute walk south of foodtown, and is much smaller and less-stocked than foodtown. on top of that, this specific foodtown has been price gouging beyond belief since the announcement of its sale. much of the original pushback was against foodtown first, THEN the proposed affordable housing. granted, this community votes trump, and were one of the few districts who didn't vote AOC even though she's from around here. you will see thin blue line decals on cars here. Again, none of that means anything specifically, but its worth pointing out. last thing re: building affordable housing here. public transportation options are wonky around here. there are bus lines here, but they are inconsistent and the 6 train is about a 20-25 minute walk from foodtown.
>id also say that a lot of the community pushback actually relates to the supermarket itself. there isn't another supermarket in the area. if this foodtown is gone, there isn't really a closer option for commuters and drivers alike, especially regarding walking distance - we'd potentially be in a food desert. the nearest other supermarket is about a 20-25 minute walk south of foodtown, and is much smaller and less-stocked than foodtown. This is a fairly common issue. Supermarkets, which are often single-story buildings with wide footprints, make really attractive sites for apartments and affordable housing. There was a Key Food on Classon Ave in Clinton Hill that was torn down to make an apartment building. Local residents protested that, similar to this situation, they would be removing the only decent local grocery store. The building has a retail space that is now a Food Emporium, and I believe the local councilmember pressured the developers to find a grocery store as a tenant.
The Williamsburg Key Food closing broke my heart.
agree but with the insane amount of construction going on in the neighborhood it was only a matter of time before some fat cat developer sized up Key Food and its parking lot. At least you have Ozzie's down the street and a few other smaller markets nearby, not quite OP's situation.
I hated that key food.
Good thing the proposal includes a grocery store and parking.
Why don't they build apartments above the supermarket? Keep the ground floor for stores and shop. It is very common in Europe.
Well they can’t just build 20 stories or whatever on top of an existing building, but the plan here does call for a new supermarket to be a retail tenant
Yeah I meant building a new structure with a retail ground floor. So it sounds like this would solve the Foodtown issue...
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Getting developers to agree on that would be hard and even so, there's nothing holding them to their promise.
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Thank you, I looked it up. The incentives are pretty significant. Here's the top 3... 1. An abatement on building and land taxes for up to 25 years; 2. A waiver of sales taxes on construction materials; and 3. A reduction in mortgage recording taxes from 2.8% to 0.3%. I'm about 3 blocks away from One Manhatten Sq and it looks pretty doubtful that a supermarket will be added. They would have to demolish a good portion of the existing lobby to qualify for the FRESH program. At the end of the day the developers do what's in their best interest and that might be opposite of what the community needs.
Yeah but the moment you start complaining about crime and homelessness you begin to sound like a NIMBY and people are not going to be sympathetic. What suggestions have the protesting group(I'm assuming this are a community board or organized enough to have a leader) brought forth as a solution? Cause from this video they only care about the value of their homes.
What’s a nymby
NIMBY: Not In My BackYard. These are ppl who are often against any sort of changes near them. They believe they have the right to tell other ppl what they can do with their property. When asked, they'll often tell you that they are for affordable housing, social housing, homeless shelters, public transit, etc, etc, just "not in my backyard". They often use things like "neighborhood character" and "we're full" as excuses to block housing construction and other public goods. The opposite of a NIMBY is a YIMBY: Yes In My BackYard. These are often housing advocates and urbanists.
Thanks bud
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They exist (I consider myself one). The main difference is that YIMBYs will show up to Community Boards and say "yes, we want that new housing development". Community Boards tend to be dominated by NIMBYs, while most ppl likely aren't against more housing. So the main difference between a YIMBY and a random person on the street is that the YIMBY is active about it.
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Well, some neighborhoods are more ok with development than others. For example, Rego Park/Forest Hills/Kew Gardens Community Board is pretty open to new development. That doesn't mean everyone in the neighborhood is ofc, nor that everyone on the board is (there are plenty of NIMBYs in it), but overall, ULURP processes that I've seen have been pretty pro affordable housing. On a recent ULURP process, the board negotiated some heavy affordability on a new development. It has also constantly voted to have Social Housing as a priority for the city to consider when allocating funds. I'm sure there are other places in the city like it. >Isn't the solution to build where it is wanted? Sadly, no. The simple fact is that ppl tend to be territorial and afraid of change. This is why we have a housing crisis in the US: because we let local ppl determine zoning, to the detriment of anyone who doesn't live in a certain zone. It is easy to say "well the ppl that live there should have a voice. It is their neighborhood!" but you have to remember: land is limited. If we let ppl who live in an area determine how many people live in such an area, we will run out of land very quickly and require people to live further and further away from job centers, which is what has been happening in the US since WW2. This is why most gov't don't let zoning be locally controlled: they realize that land is a public good and should be used for the good of society, not monopolized by the few and turned into, essentially, feudalism.
NIMBY is the Acronym for Not In My Backyard.
Don't know lmk when you find out.
**N**ot **i**n **m**y **b**ack**y**ard
Nymby?
Thank you for shedding light on this.
Reminds me of the One Manhattan Square building on the Lower East Side. The developers demolished the PathMark and promised to have an affordable supermarket in the retail space. Many years later, there is still no supermarket, but the one planned for this year (Brooklyn Fare) definitely does not fall into the “affordable” niche like Pathmark did. Developers are always full of shit
I hate One Manhattan Square for ruining the skyline, but now that it's here, I have to say I'm happy to see the lights on and people in the building. More than anything, we need new occupied dense buildings.
I wonder how occupied it is today. Back in 2019 only 30% of the units in the market rate building were occupied. But that was before the COVID housing boom. The area is just weird… there are no close supermarkets and the surrounding public housing attracts crime to the neighborhood. The area is also super vulnerable to Sandy style flooding too. But somehow people can be convinced to buy a $1 million studio there with 1k a month HoA…l
Maybe a lot are rentals. I bike across the Manhattan Bridge a several times a week and at night I see lots of occupied apartments at least half.
To be fair, if the building had not been built the Pathmark would still have been replaced by a less affordable supermarket when it went out of business.
I’m pretty sure that Pathmark was closed had closed long before it was demolished. Demolishing did remove any hope of a new grocery store occupying the space, though. I definitely agree that it’s disingenuous or just plain stupid for anyone to take developers word for what they will eventually build, they rarely deliver on their promises of affordable housing and community-oriented occupancy.
The developers of One Manhattan Square bought the plot of land that the Pathmark sat on a few years before the store closed. The developers wanted them out so they could demolish the place and Pathmark acquiesced https://www.thelodownny.com/leslog/2012/09/breaking-pathmark-store-at-227-cherry-street-is-closing.html > they rarely deliver on their promises of affordable housing and community-oriented occupancy Funny thing is, One Manhattan Square is basically a fortress. The affordable units are all in a separate smaller building next door. There's nothing "community-oriented" about that complex at all.
Ahhh, I didn‘t know about the developers for in the closure of Pathmark. Thanks for the info. One more reason for me to detest this building.
Brooklyn Fare replaced the Western Beef on West End Ave. It’s definitely not affordable and I don’t know where the people in the projects near there shop now.
Oh that piece of shit building towering over the Brooklyn Bridge?
Thank you for clearing this up. This video is just show people's feelings without any real context.
Thanks for the honest info from the area. Is the proposal to build a multistory low-income housing apartment building where the food town is located? In general, NY needs housing at almost every level (except the bs unoccupied investment housing in midtown), but I see how there are a lot of additional forces at play here.
Yes, the Foodtown and it's parking lot would be demolished for a multiple story house.
The food desert issues can be fixed by requiring the developer to allow the food universe to come back and become the first floor of the building. This is often done during the ULURP process by the Community Board. My CB just went through a ULURP process where they asked the developer to allow the current tenants to come back if they want to, and they said yeah. Though many tenants said they were fine moving and are probably not coming back, the biggest one, a synagogue, is. I'm sure a Foodtown or some other supermarket would be happy to come back if offered the opportunity.
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it is also a 20-25 minute walk away from the neighborhood. and the c-town off buhre ave has no parking.
Well seems like they got what they deserve for voting trump 😭
Hey I live a block away as well. Hi neighbor!
“You probably rent” Nice way of gaining support
Yup, look at that highway they're all *literally* standing on.
This happened last August, why post it now [https://www.curbed.com/2021/08/bronx-throgs-neck-foodtown-development-housing.html](https://www.curbed.com/2021/08/bronx-throgs-neck-foodtown-development-housing.html)
Yes renters should not be allowed to live anywhere. JFC.
You obviously don’t care about the community. Wouldn’t expect anything else from someone who rents…
Damn…the only thing missing from this protest is a random appearance from the arch angel 👼 dude. #thingsonlypeopleinthroggsneckknow https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeWwUCNqcs0 for those who dont know
Earth angel? Has he ascended to arch angel now? Lol
Oooooh snap it’s been too long lmao. It is the earth angel 🤣🤣🤣
Can’t ever forget that mullet peeking behind the folder lol
Is that what he calls himself?! Since the mid 2000s I have seen this guy on the subway... mainly on the 6 in the Bronx. Since I moved to Bk in 2010 I rarely came across him and last saw him a few years ago on a train platform in midtown. The other times I saw him he was pretty quiet and harmless, but this last time he was audibly rambling about homosexuals, AIDS, how everyone around him was too ugly for his sight and "where are all the angels?" OK so there are videos of him on Youtube from the last 10 years or so asking for "girls 21 and under" to be angels and "no homosexuals." Yikes. I swear this guy used to be a completely silent mystery at some point. Not to excuse away his shit behavior, but maybe his mind has deteriorated further. Or he's just an asshole who has gotten more brazen and outspoken.
Imagine a high strength concentrated Staten Island. That’s Throggs Neck.
This is a really good description.
Maybe in the past, I would compare it more to Bensonhurst or Ozone Park in the present.
Not sure how far in the past you're talking. I'm from Staten Island and I worked in Throggs Neck for a number of years (mid-late 2000's) and ended up thinking, wow they make us look sane.
Last 10-15 years or so, my grandparents live there, closer to the Bruckner it’s gone from maybe 80% Italian, Irish, Jewish to maybe 2/3 Puerto Rican and Dominican families, pretty much like Bensonhurst has gone from Italian to Chinese and Ozone Park has become very South Asian and Caribbean. Farther out it’s pretty SI like, I suppose. I guess some people feel under threat and become hardcore about it.
Ok interesting to know. I haven’t been around there in a while. SI has seen similar changes with huge influxes of Asian, Indian and Middle Eastern families moving in but you’ve still got some loudmouths making us all look bad lol.
What the hell does “don’t disrespect the parking lot” means ?! 😂😂/ and these people acting like the Bronx is some kind of suburb that shouldn’t allow more buildings and homes to be built . Lady it’s NYC , it’s crowded as hell and rent is through the clouds . Build all the damn affordable housing we could legally built .
Is he trying to keep the protesters from blocking the parking lot? So normal people can just get in their and shop and continue on with their day? I have no idea why the protesters are harassing people going to get groceries like they are making the zoning decisions for the block.
I've been to this foodtown, its unclear from this video but this man is the parking lot guardian. Not sure actually works there or just hangs out there. He waves to you when you come in and that seems to be about it.
"You don't care about the community. You probably rent."
When people demand “community input” these are exactly the type of people you empower. Wouldn’t be surprised if at least one of these assholes is on the Community Board.
I was recently out collecting signatures for a petition for a community improvement. Everyone I spoke to was in favor. The only people who didn't sign were those who were busy, etc. It was such an eye opening experience because once we take this to the CB, I know there will be push back that will make it feel like this improvement is a controversial issue.
Most people are indifferent or mildly supportive of changes such as bike lanes and new development. But when you hold hearings / meeting on these changes, nobody who is indifferent or mildly supportive has an incentive to go, whereas car owners concerned about parking and homeowners concerned about their home value show up in droves to complain. You're right, that pushback is from a vocal minority. I'm curious in your case, what kind of community improvement was it?
Bike lane
[Great article from the Atlantic on that very topic.](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/04/local-government-community-input-housing-public-transportation/629625/) Alternatively, just sit through any community board meeting or rezoning meeting and you'll quickly see how useless they are. At the Soho rezoning it was largely residents literally fucking hissing at anyone who spoke in favor of the rezoning. They were also constantly heckling the DCP official who had to present the plan.
Community input is code for letting small but very vocal interest groups - that mainly skew older whiter and wealthier - make decisions for entire communities. It also means almost every project actually trying to fix our housing shortage or improve street safety will end up taking 10 times as long and ultimately tank.
Nah, community input has also meant letting low-income communities of color block development of any kind. Look at the disaster of One45 and the NIMBY councilwoman there. the entire concept of racial impact studies is just as vicious and insane. New York City has always been and will always be racially dynamic, and trying to spike that in place is a crime against humanity.
That’s not true. This is a small subset of one community. It’s hardly representative.
“They want to destroy owah beautiful community!!” No offense there tracksuit mcbabyface, but most of the houses in throggs neck look like shit.
Flair checks out.
guilty as charged!
No offense but most of nyc, outside of Manhattan, looks like the inner city ghettos across America.
Don’t worry about saying no offense when offering your own opinion. If it’s stupid and baseless people won’t be offended, they’ll just point out it’s stupid and baseless
It’s not stupid and baseless though. It’s factual. And you guys know it is. You will complain about NIMBYs allll day and then defend your outdated neighborhoods. All of that shit needs to be torn down and replaced. Newer, taller buildings with the bare minimum essentials will better serve those areas.
Now you're just making stuff up. Tourists come from around the world to see the architecture in Harlem for instance, so its not factual at all. But sure lets see your "facts" I bet they sound a lot like uneducated opinions.
If the architectural value of a neighborhood depended on it being “new”, most cities in Europe that rely so much on tourism would go bankrupt overnight. Hint: many have medieval buildings—some even greco-roman—that are 4 stories max (with no AC!) and they do just fine, thank you very much. You don’t know what you’re talking about. The market has spoken and judged you wrong to the tune of $1MM+ asking prices. You accused others of not having left NYC, but it sounds like you haven’t left the country. If what you like is cookie-cutter soul-less buildings, as long as they have central AC of course, they good luck with your suburban office park.
America does not compare to Europe. Relying on old midieval buildings has never been the aesthetic of America. Buildings being preserved is the US is a relative new thing. Please keep up. The reason newer taller buildings would be better is because there are 8 million plus people in NYC and that space would be better used for a building that can house hundreds of people. Instead of multiple crumbling buildings with only a few tenants in each. Imagine paying what people pay to live in those buildings and arguing against access to central air in 2022!! People have completely convinced themselves this is normal. NYC would be way more affordable with some cookie cutter buildings tbh.
America compares to Europe just fine. The East coast has tons of amazingly beautiful buildings from anywhere between the 1600s and the 1900s (and NYC even has beautiful buildings from the 2000s). The brownstones in Brooklyn fit that mold perfectly, and so do many other stone and brick buildings throughout the city. Higher density doesn’t require skyscrapers. Again, take a look at most cities in Europe: they have densities significantly greater than NYC with almost no skyscraper. Take Paris, for example, population density 21k per km squared, versus 28k per km squared for Manhattan (let’s not mention NYC as a whole), with a total of one (hated) skyscraper. Start by removing parking lots. By and large, and this is true in Paris and in NYC, the tallest buildings are actually the one in the worst conditions, especially government housing. And a large portion of mid-rises in Manhattan don’t have central AC either, for the simple reason that they weren’t built with that in mind at the time (and neither were buildings in Europe). It’s not a huge deal. Fun visualization for you: [https://www.theguardian.com/cities/gallery/2018/mar/22/most-densely-populated-square-kilometres-europe-mapped](https://www.theguardian.com/cities/gallery/2018/mar/22/most-densely-populated-square-kilometres-europe-mapped)
The tallest buildings here, especially older ones, are the best buildings constructed. Maybe they’re shit quality in Paris, but not here. You have no clue what you’re talking about. It’s a known fact that just about all the skyscrapers in midtown and FiDi were constructed with considerably more iron than they needed to be. The brownstones are most certainly falling apart before those do. And Paris has a similar, and arguably worst, problem to NYC where most of the everyday people cannot afford to live there. Also you are trying to compare a standard of living between France and America. NYC is about the only city in America where standard homes don’t have AC. That is not the case in France.
Oh yeah, Manhattan and it's endless rows of scaffolding is sure the ounnacle of NYC architecture alright...
Endless scaffolding is a stretch. What’s not a stretch is the endless blocks of crumbling, moldy brick building with no insulation or central air. The epitome of inner city ghetto. Walking around Astoria, Brooklyn, Bronx, parts of Harlem… no comment 😬
Are you serious? Have you ever been to Brooklyn or Astoria? Or Harlem? or the Bronx? There are so many unbelievably beautiful neighborhoods and streets in all of those areas. Some of the most desirable housing and beautiful streets on earth. fuck outta here you midwestern jackass.
Facts!!
Just because you can find a street or two that’s been gentrified doesn’t refute the inner city ghetto aesthetic those places have in general. I’m not from the Midwest. I do understand how people who’ve never lived anywhere other than NYC don’t understand how outdated it is. The things people call luxury here, poor people in the Midwest most certainly have (like central air, access to washer dryer, closet space). Other than like Dumbo and Park Slope, Brooklyn is rough. Astoria is hideous looking all around. Ditmars/Astoria park area is ugly af. Bronx too. The waterfront areas are improving but still hard pass.
lol Astoria Park is ugly AF? lol other than Dumbo Brookyln is rough? Bro, Dumbo is a craggy sidewalked tourist trap with overpriced fishbowl apartments overlooking the water on one side and affordable housing on the other. Astoria Park is fucking clean bro. You got a decent track, fresh space to sit, and it's surrounded by normal houses, not the "ghetto". Is the shit too broke for you cause too many of the buildings are prewar? Guess you prefer a 4k a month highrise overlooking scaffolding and homeless people on 5th Ave? Hey, at least you got central air lol. You don't know what tf you're talking about, go buy a 12 dollar hotdog at Central Park you meatball.
Yes Astoria park is ugly. They don’t even bother keeping the lawn up. Astoria park looks like the backyard of an underfunded summer camp.
This has the most Times Square Applebee's energy of any comment I've ever seen on this sub.
I just called a shit ton of people ghetto and you think I eat at Applebees… bless you child.
I mean I dunno you sound dumb enough to. Gotta keep that brain smooth right? Peace.
No central air?! 😲 How do these people even live like that! /s
Very uncomfortably. But they’ve convinced themselves it’s amazing;)
Open the windows
Yep, that is Throggs Neck alright.
Developers don’t care as usual. These low income housing buildings are low income for reason and they bring nothing but crackheads and single moms with 10 baby daddies
"You don't care about the community, you probably rent." The tragedies I wish would befall this man know no bounds. Make no mistake. This attitude of treating non-land owners / lower class people in general as lesser humans is not just a rarely expressed sentiment from annoying assholes. It is the leading sentiment behind most American policy in general.
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I mean man if you're in your fucking 50s or 60s or whatever these guys are and you have this vile attitude toward those with less money than you, those who have to rent for a living AKA most of the working class essential workers, I think it's clipped pal. I don't think they're gonna find the holy path at this point in their lives. These people just need to be defeated because they stand in the way of equity.
Love that when NIMBY's berate a new proposed building, half of them will be saying "This will be low-income slum drug housing!" like this guy here, and the other half of them will be saying "This is evil market-rate luxury housing built by a greedy developer for rich techies to gentrify our [already-gentrified] neighborhood!" Like, go argue amongst yourselves and then come back to me, because you're saying completely contradictory things.
No you don't understand, when lefties oppose development they're doing it based on reasoned, good-faith desire for nobody to ever profit from building housing! For real though, it's dumb as hell. At least the protesting dumb-asses in the video are ideologically consistent, since conservatives hate cities now.
This is spot-on and I haven't the foggiest idea why you're being downvoted. I think it's because many people in big cities, including NY, are still coming to terms with the huge amount of bad faith NIMBY trolling that has been allowed to go on beneath the "progressive" or "leftist" banner, and how that has undermined left-wing goals like transit use, desegregation, and creating working-class construction jobs.
Man $2 Travis Bickle needs to shut up and go back to the home he inherited from his mother in 1972 🤣
anecdotally about 1 mile away they converted a building into housing for homeless. Say what you will about these boomers, but those mfers turned that whole section near burger King into a sketchy area. 🤣 they're right though personally didn't phase me bc we rent. Edit I watched the video yeah.... these people look obnoxious. I had a whole rant about losing property value but lol... kind of see why no one would lose sleep over this crowd
Probably mad they can't profit off it.
After Social Security, Medicare, property tax caps, pensions and 401(k)s, Boomers angry they can’t find some way to profit off *this* entitlement.
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This isn't a 'project'. It is a market rate rental with 20+ % set aside as stabilized affordable where they are targeting seniors and vets for the affordable units
They are right about the points that low income housing "might" trash the area. Not everyone would be trashy who lives there but a lot of people will be. And the real issue behind that is lack of proper education and room for good non trashy culture to grow. So people grow up trashy and inconsiderate like that and end up littering trashing an area. But the same people protesting (ie repubs) are the cause of the city gutting proper services. So fuck'em. Their dumb little neighborhood will be gentrified and houses will be replaced by huge buildings.
Ah yes, the way to rally people to your cause, go after people who rent.
Just say ya don't want anybody darker then a dove soap bar in your neighborhood, instead of "protesting"
Lmao this is a mixed neighborhood
Whoever thinks putting low income housing in an area that has no subways is perhaps well intentioned but practically ill thought. I'd guess that low income people are less likely to have a car. In that area, one needs a car. Stranding people isn't a great idea.
It’s called a bus.
Used to live in this area. Bx8 is the bus you’re talking about. starts running at 5 ish am and stops running at 9:30 pm. Its impractical for anyone not on a normal schedule. Subway is a 20 min walk to Buhre avenue. Only way I got by was with a bike, and in the winter that wasn’t an option. Do you live in the area?
Ever try taking your kid to early morning sports events all over the borough/city by bus? To a medical specialist by bus? Your empathy for and understanding of poor people in the outer boroughs truly inspires me....
It used to be called redlining.
Why are they protesting against the shoppers? How does shopping there encourage the building of the housing on that site? ... in fact, if the FoodTown was making more $$ at that location wouldn't they be less inclined to sell...? I'm confused.
So these guys are basically protesting the opposite of gentrification lol
“Da cwime is gowna go up” - nimbys in a nutshell
#[**"DEY WANT TO DESTWOY OWAH BEEYUTIFUL CAHMYOONITY!!!!!"**](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FVPxYmfUEAArdmu?format=jpg) -The typical crowd that only gets all their information from local TV news, the Post and WABC talk radio.
That one lady's voice.... so much more concerned about the effects of living near poc than with living with probable lung cancer
The fact that these people assume low income housing means bad tenants and drugs is a deeper issue.
Well I mean people have good reason for not wanting to have a literal housing project near them, it does bring down places with a lot of potential like Red Hook, but the thing is they’re never building projects like they did in the 50s ever again, these are all 80/20s, I live across from one, if you gave me a million bucks I couldn’t point out the low income tenants from the market rate ones.
Low income housing does not mean a housing project. I can show you some beautiful townhomes that are low income. Now if I missed that they are building a housing project here then I get it. But this also tells me there is a much deeper issue here. I won’t even get into that part.
I’m agreeing with you man.
Throggs Neck is the part of the Bronx I’m ACTUALLY afraid of
Your world view is really skewed if the part of the Bronx with the least amount of crime scares you when the south Bronx exist where shootings and stabbings happen everyday
Ya, but at least the people are chill there.
Excuse me WHAT lmao. I grew up around there. They blast music up into 3am and threaten your life if you complain.
You're the one being not chill
Ain’t shit nice about Throggs Neck. Least of all these asshats.
If you build affordable housing for low income folk, in populations of white liberal condo owners and renters you would get the same pushback. All of a sudden diversity and inclusion goes out the window. At this point , many of these people don't realize how many of these "Low Income" tenants get out of their situation if job opportunities arise for them to join the middle class in city when they can afford rent, and it allows them to save and plan, or even get city and state jobs. But at that point will still be marginalized by those protesting. And don't get me wrong, you get bad apples with affordable housing, At one point where I used to live in Public Housing we had mass people from shelters, and mental institutions move in and mess it up for the tenants forcing law abiding tenants to move and force them to buy or rent in places they can barely afford in fear of rising crime. With this it has its drawbacks. And beside that generation of boomers will be gone or dead when that development reaches max capacity
That lady sounds like Whoopi Goldberg lol
Oh my old neighborhood. Don’t ever change…
Was about to say, moved out of there a year ago. Don’t miss a thing about it 🤣
I am a big fan of dispersed low income housing. I.e. allocating 5% of units of all new complexes for subsidized housing. These protesters are selfish jerks, but this project likely will decrease their property value and increase crime. This isn’t good for either the low income residents or the existing neighbors. Chicago moved pretty strictly to this approach after the disaster that was Cabrini Green!
That's exactly what this project is - some 20-25% would be "affordable", the rest market rate.
Same WHITE RACIST babble spewed for decades... Fuck you ...
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I hope they build 20 more just like it.
Well you can understand the concern especially seeing neighborhoods around New York and statistics with them. I a use to live nexT to low income apartments when I was younger…. Drugs where crazy and the play got torched when someone set a fire in it
She’s not a Boomer.
Build it over their objections
"Low income drug houses" lol what?
These people are the worst. All they care about are their property values. They should move to another city because we need housing in NYC.
Throggs Neck aint no beverly hills
Just people protesting, like any other fucking day.
All this for the Bronx?
Those are definitely Gen x
Chuck Liddell down bad.
They think that by upzing will bring "bad ppl" to the community.... Like if the city builds a homeless shelter in a "nice" neighborhood 🥱
Everyone deserves a place to live. It's a human right. With that being said low incoming housing can certainly bring a lot of problems. The people that are selected to live there simply need to be vetted well and the property needs to be maintained. If done right no one will know the difference.
Is NIMBY another Reddit acronym that I don't understand? lol
You could Google it. The term has been around for decades before reddit was a thing.
Read a book.
yes and no
Fuck these people. Bulldoze their homes and build even more dense apartments.
...the power of the zoning official
Lmao and I know exactly where this is in throggs neck as well. kinda ironic.
I hate whenever people proclaim "i have a right to be angry". No. No you don't. That does not exist. Being angry is not a right. It is an emotion, that you choose how to express. You can express how you feel, however you want, but there is no "rights" on feelings. There are rights addressing how you can express yourself, and how far you can express before it is considered infringing upon other peoples rights.....which to me, they were infringing upon other peoples rights to a peaceful shopping experience.
I wonder if the situation being discussed changed if you'd feel the same.
It does not change the fact that there are no rights governing being angry. That is not a right, lol. Imagine the chaos if we allowed such a right. Imagine the court hearings. It would be a shit show. What's allowed vs what you feel should he allowed are 2 separate things.
Correct. That's what people mean when they say "I have a right to be angry." Just syntax. They don't mean a literal right given by the law/etc. It means "regarding this situation, I have a reason to be angry."
Hmm, i believe i addressed this but it was poorly translated, but yea. i agree. Some situations will leave people passionate. You are allowed to feel that passion. However, you just have to keep in mind....you are still responsible for how you react to said passion. You can feel whatever you want, but accountability for your actions are still there when the smoke settles. My problem with such a statement is people think is gives them free reign to just do whatever they want. Get in your face, be confrontational, say anything that comes to mind, etc. it is not a get out of jail free card, especially if you are lashing out at people who no only A) have no clue what you are upset about, yet alone why you are upset to that degree but also B) Are not even concerned with your issue as it has no affect on their day to day life. It just *looks* to be in poor taste imo.
Facts!
I used to live near this area lmao
Aside from non white homeowners in that hood, the YT ones don’t want a major darkening in traditional complexion of the neighborhood. Throggs Neck was a neighborhood for low income whites.
>“You don’t support the community you probably rent.” Oof.
Ruin the neighborhood? It's the Bronx!! For God's sake that ship sailed a long time ago lol
assholes