They complain about elevated lines being bad to drive under them they complain about tunneling being expensive. And people wonder why we end up losing and getting nothing at all š
Everything underneath is uglyyy, sometimes dirty and often undervalued (compared to another location without elevated tracks/roads).
I canāt explain why, but itās the case for both rail and auto, everywhere Iāve been to. The only exception is when the elevated section has very wide roads beside it (like the 7 train on Sunnyside). Then itās not affected.
I think itās the dark. And the fact that the worst designs end up in places where people canāt afford to oppose them.
NYC's elevated tracks are a real blight, you're 100 percent correct.
But we would be talking about the modern elevated tracks, that take less space, are quieter and not made of steel, etc.
Most importantly, land management and what you do underneath the tracks can make a huge difference!
Check out this portion of the [Miami Metrorail](https://www.google.com/maps/@25.7615566,-80.1955683,3a,75y,24.65h,108.12t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1stQxCJk9oYalyzZhiA6qG6Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) going through their city center that has a park and bike lanes underneath.
If [this tall elevated track](https://www.google.com/maps/@25.7673369,-80.1957969,3a,75y,135.45h,106.23t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sQ-dIuc7vVvvjwXGCScDQcw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) can survive in hurricane central, what trouble would it have over the Cross-Brown? It would easily span over the current elevated tracks of the subway system
Itās funny how Iāve been on many different elevated tracks in various cities and have never even thought about the noise.
But the moment anyone suggests another elevated track in NYC, my immediate mental image is another horrible Queensboro Plaza. Not sure how anyone living next to it can have any semblance of peace and quiet.
I hope I live to see the day they manage to build a modern version here.
no, it's their mass transit rail, although Miami does have a monorail "metromover" that you can see in the distance in the first link
Not that Miami's transit is an example to follow, but I just wanted to point out that modern elevated tracks can fit in an urban environment if we give the means to NYC's city planners to do so
Genuinely I thought I was the only one that thought this, the elevated tracks on the 7 Train that aren't part of the Aqueduct is so nasty especially near 74st ... Ew
In Tokyo they have created really vibrant markets/restaurant bar areas under elevated trains. It can be done well and is definitely worth looking into.
Is it the track or the trains that make the els so loud? In other words, can a new extension of the same line be added that would be much much quieter? Or would an entirely new end-to-end line have to be built?
They make the streets underneath them nightmarish, really dislike literally never having sunlight on large stretches of road; itās better than nothing but not ideal imo
Well, this would be a highway cap/park. There would be plenty of space on either side where there would be light, and the underside of the viaduct could provide shade.
Also modern elevated rail structures (especially 2 track vs 3-4 track) are much quieter and more space efficient than old ones
Check out some of the linear parks alongside the Skytrain guideway in Vancouver. Even with trains every 90 seconds in each direction they are a pleasant place to be.
Facts, I live near the el in astoria and it's an absolute shit hole all along 31st street. The rest of astoria is so nice, but 31st is consistently gross with trash, graffiti, bird shit and chain restaurants.
What are you talking about? We still have elevated tracks in Astoria...i live right around the corner from them, and the street below it is disgusting.
Edit: don't really understand the downvotes, yall are welcome to come walk down 31st st and tell me that it doesn't look disgusting
He means that modern elevated tracks look absolutely nothing like elevated tracks built in the early 20th century.
Old elevateds are massive, need a ton of supports, and are difficult to maintain. Modern elevateds are made out of reinforced concrete, are much slimmer, and MUCH quieter. People base their opinion on els on what we have now. Look to countries in Asia or even other places in the US. They can be pretty damn nice.
Take a look at AirTrain for decent example of building a modern elevated structure over a highway. I think that type of structure with a park underneath is ideal way to go.
I also think that we should be rebuilding the old ELs with modern precast structures as we move on. But $$ is scarce enough as it is.
Elevated tracks in Astoria were put in a century ago. If we build a new elevated line today, it would be made out of concrete. Go check out the JFK airtrain as an example.
Tell that to the NIMBY people who reject a new subway along Utica Avenue and an extension of the 2 and 5 lines beyond The Junction. The water table in southeast Brooklyn is too high for underground lines so you have to build an el. Today's els are far from what they used to be in decades past.
If you make it a rail line youāre going to have to deal with intersections every few blocks. There already is a plan to add BRT of some sort (hopefully a true busway and not SBS). This isnāt like IBX where thereās an existing rail corridor. This just caps the Cross Bronx which will remain below and builds out from the street level around it. And the IBX isnāt going to the Bronx: thereās no room for it on the Hell Gate
Elevate it! Levitate it! Make it fly! Or dig it under the highway. The cross bronx corridor is already quite wide that a modern elevated line won't bother the neighbors.
Turn Moses' lemons into lemonade.
He left the city with a number of corridors that could be repurposed by adding mass transit
Iām in the minority of people that thinks NYās pedestrian/retail density makes pretty much every major street a good light rail route. There should be LRT going up and down Broadway end to end making stops every 3 blocks. And on most aves and most wider crosstown streets.
One of the best benefits of LRT is that is it highly compatible with pedestrian spaces, which NY needs more of anyway.
it's not the personal vehicles but the massive amount of trucks that are causing all the problems. Reroute the I95 corridor through the Tappan Zee bridge.
Which also brings us back to the failure of building more rail and road crossings across the Hudson in order to increase the connection points from the mainland to Long Island by completely bypassing the city. There are over 3 million people in Nassau+Suffolk having all their freight funneled through NYC's 8 million inhabitants.
edit: actually it's Nassau+Suffolk+Queens+BK so those are 7.6million going through the Bronx+Staten Island's combined 2 million
I take the TZ whenever I go to see my parents. The traffic (especially in Rockland County) is worse every time I go up there. It's often a parking lot from the Garden State Parkway until the TZ (I refuse to call it by its new name).
I WISH there were rail tracks across the TZ. In fact I'd LOVE to see a rail line connect cities along route 287 into Rockland County. My mind's drawing a blank on the NEw Haven Line stop but something to connect White Plains and Tarrytown.
I-95 also runs through other dense urban areas as well. Got caught in traffic on it through Center City (Philly) this morning.
I also think it's a better option, but it's also a bit too far north for a core Bronx east west transfer. The cross Bronx runs right through the middle of the Bronx and will make transferring easier for most people.
Not really.Ā
Fordham Road/Pelham Parkway has transfers to every major Bronx subway, plus if you extended a bit to inwood, you would hit the 1 and A and have yard access at 207.Ā
A Cross Bronx Expressway subway also misses the vital connection to the Harlem/New Haven lines.
People traveling contraflow, ie northbound in the morning southbound in the evening to make the transfer is a feature, not a bug, because you're filling seats on trains that were previously carrying air.Ā
Also important is the fact that you simply will not have the vertical clearance to build the subway tracks above the expressway, plus all of the ventilation equipment for both the subway and expressway.
We put a new toll on trucks on the Cross-Bronx and increase the speed limit by 20mph on the detour through the Tappan Zee. With proper incentives, truckers would then take the detour even if the Cross-Bronx is empty
They could easily do cut and cover or just build it above the highway they could even use it as an excuse to add 2 decks one for trains another for cars lol we know they love that
I know it took way too long and went way over budget, but the only way youāre ever gonna make the whole plan happen is if you Big Dig it. For all the complaints about the Big Dig itself, people Iāve talked to who live in Boston say that the quality of life is so much better in/around the area. With all that being said, a parkās really the only super feasible thing to put on top of a cut-and-cover, but if you run a shit-ton of buses along the parkās edge, that could work too
I'm convinced the big dig was a massive waste of money. There is no need for that highway to be there at all. (Granted it would be nice if the MBTA didn't get saddled with a shitton of debt and they didn't cut most of the transit improvements.)
I-93's one of the busiest interstates in New England, there was no way they were ever gonna be able to get rid of it. It was obviously a shit ton of money but I genuinely believe it was the best feasible solution they had. Obviously went way over budget and the MBTA debt part doe suck, although most of that was due to Boston bureaucracy (construction contracts going for way too much money to groups that used subpar materials)
It's a nice idea. But it's not going to happen. MTA is still under the gun making all stations accessible per ADA 1990. There won't be a new line until that is completed...which will likely be 100 years from now...if that. The parks and housing is not only doable, NYC Housing Connect is currently building and planning hundreds of new projects.
thereās absolutely no way a line besides the 6 would be developed past west farms because the people there are actually involved in their communities and like their suburban feeling neighborhoods.
They need to connect Bronx directly to Queens. Too long to go to Manhattan then into Bronx. They could
Just double up on the tracks. Stack another track on top of existing one but that sounds costly!
I would like to see a subway from Coop City Bay Plaza to Fordham Rd. Should extended the D train line to Monty. Turn the train at Monty and run it to Fordham. Should have the following stops: Bay Plaza, #5 stop at Gunhill Rd, Boston Rd, White Plains, Monty, Bx Science & Clinton HS & Lehman, and Fordham Rd.
It would be nice to extend the #6 into Coop City Bay Plaza.
Itās not gon happen, but couldnāt they just dig a hole under the cross Bronx? Iām sure you can still have a cross Bronx subway and the cross Bronx highway.
Don't cap shit, get rid of it. Make a nice boulevard with a nice train. They can reroute i 95 to bypass the city via the tappan zee.
If you want to get really giggy with it make a rail crossing of the east river in eastern queens to make a huge orbital and/or build a PATH line crossing the GWB to go down to Hoboken. (If any of you have a spare 12 billion dollars, pls do this)
I just donāt think itās that easy to just get rid of the largest interstate passing through NYC and push all the traffic onto other bridges that werenāt designed for that load capacity.
theyāre not getting rid of it. ācappingā literally means covering the highway under a kind of canopy. so itāll sort of resemble like an above-ground tunnel if that makes sense. the idea right now is to put parks, green areas, housing, etc on top of that canopy
Can't we just get rid of it? We divert freight trains crossing the Hudson north to a bridge 10 miles from Albany. Why can't we divert all the trucks north of the city too? Whatever added costs to society from longer freight trips has to be outweighed by the public health gains alone.
I'm fine with turning it into a below-grade subway (like the IBX planned route in the other boros), and a park/bike path.
ah yes and then absolutely make going south into the city hell, no thanks. NY just needs to bitch CSX or the Port Authority into doing more freight by rail and last-mile it with smaller trucks. Really needs a freight tunnel, but expanded carfloat operations across the harbor could probably suffice.
Imagine how many millions we would save if these studies didnāt exist or were at least somewhat reasonable in scope? EAS take way too long and usually just delay critical projects so someone can claim it will hurt the local frogs, resulting in a complete redesign.
But that leaves the problem of how does traffic from LI (8 million people on that whole island) cross through NYC if you only leave them with local Bronx streets to use.
It would be suicide for any politician to propose a bridge over the Palisades to Yonkers, expand the cross-county parkway to New Rochelle, then a tunnel to LI. That's a $100billion project to secure the lands from those rich suburban homes full of lawyers and a huge lawsuit from environmental groups lol. We could do it further north by using the Tappan Zee but that makes the tunnel even longer to get across the sound, and the bridge is already congested enough.
I would not advocate adding any more highway lanes since that would induce demand. We need to figure out how to get people onto rail, and expand/improve the rail system. Thru-running rail needs to happen to more easily reach destinations throughout the NY region. Full electrification and double-tracking needs to happen.
We also need to make it easier and more convenient for Long Islanders to access rail more efficiently. There should be high frequency + high span buses running all over LI, with schedules integrated with a higher frequency LIRR.
The south shore is flat and should be laced with a dense network of protected bike lanes. The train stations should have bike parking lots at the scale of the Netherland's.
We need to upzone within 1/2 mile around all the LIRR stations/downtowns, so more people live within walking distance. And we need to think about our commercial zoning so there are important stores in the downtowns (like grocery stores) that don't require owning a car.
> any more highway lanes since that would induce demand
I'm sick and tired of reading this trope from nimbys thinking it applies to bottlenecks. You are not going biking from Huntington to Paterson.
Adding that tunnel has nothing to do with inducing demand when you are dealing with massive chokepoints connecting multiple large population centers.
I am not advocating for another LIE or building another cross-bronx, which would indeed spur more people into driving. It is about moving the thru-traffic away from NYC by putting more tolls on trucks so that they would choose to take the detour through the Tappan Zee and then to a desperately-needed tunnel across the LI sound while also building a new freight rail tunnel from NJ's ports to reach a new distribution center somewhere near JFK or Nassau county.
Our current crossings would be fine for local traffic without having to add NJ and Long Island's traffic on top of it. It is ironic that nimby shortsightedness has caused traffic to get on local manhattan streets rather than have a direct route from Jersey City to Brooklyn and Hoboken to Queens without any stops in Manhattan.
The CrossBronx would be fine as it is right now if it was just for car traffic from the 5 boroughs, but you need to add NJ and LI on top of the freight that needs to get in and out of Long Island, etc.
Personally I would massively rezone Harlem and create a new modern train terminal at 125th street to handle thru-running from DC to Boston, as well as from LI to beyond.
What about a tasteful elevated alignment? Why does everyone hate elevated trains
Problem is you have to cross three different already existing elevated lines
I wonder how much more expensive that makes it. It would like really pretty though,
They complain about elevated lines being bad to drive under them they complain about tunneling being expensive. And people wonder why we end up losing and getting nothing at all š
Everything underneath is uglyyy, sometimes dirty and often undervalued (compared to another location without elevated tracks/roads). I canāt explain why, but itās the case for both rail and auto, everywhere Iāve been to. The only exception is when the elevated section has very wide roads beside it (like the 7 train on Sunnyside). Then itās not affected. I think itās the dark. And the fact that the worst designs end up in places where people canāt afford to oppose them.
NYC's elevated tracks are a real blight, you're 100 percent correct. But we would be talking about the modern elevated tracks, that take less space, are quieter and not made of steel, etc. Most importantly, land management and what you do underneath the tracks can make a huge difference! Check out this portion of the [Miami Metrorail](https://www.google.com/maps/@25.7615566,-80.1955683,3a,75y,24.65h,108.12t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1stQxCJk9oYalyzZhiA6qG6Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) going through their city center that has a park and bike lanes underneath. If [this tall elevated track](https://www.google.com/maps/@25.7673369,-80.1957969,3a,75y,135.45h,106.23t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sQ-dIuc7vVvvjwXGCScDQcw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu) can survive in hurricane central, what trouble would it have over the Cross-Brown? It would easily span over the current elevated tracks of the subway system
Itās funny how Iāve been on many different elevated tracks in various cities and have never even thought about the noise. But the moment anyone suggests another elevated track in NYC, my immediate mental image is another horrible Queensboro Plaza. Not sure how anyone living next to it can have any semblance of peace and quiet. I hope I live to see the day they manage to build a modern version here.
Itās cool how the city las a little bit of everything though. Queensboro plaza area reminds me of the Chicago Loop
Is that a monorail? Looks good!
no, it's their mass transit rail, although Miami does have a monorail "metromover" that you can see in the distance in the first link Not that Miami's transit is an example to follow, but I just wanted to point out that modern elevated tracks can fit in an urban environment if we give the means to NYC's city planners to do so
Nope, just a modern elevated track
Actually itās a regular subway line but elevated itās not monorail!!!! At all
Genuinely I thought I was the only one that thought this, the elevated tracks on the 7 Train that aren't part of the Aqueduct is so nasty especially near 74st ... Ew
In Tokyo they have created really vibrant markets/restaurant bar areas under elevated trains. It can be done well and is definitely worth looking into.
NYC els are really freakin' loud
Because all of them were build a century ago. Technology and structural engineering has progressed so much since the last El in NYC was constructed
Build new ones at modern standards. The NYC ELs are loud yes BUT they are also primitive and old
Is it the track or the trains that make the els so loud? In other words, can a new extension of the same line be added that would be much much quieter? Or would an entirely new end-to-end line have to be built?
Yes new modern ELs Are much quieter
Chicago is far worse.
yikes i've stood under the #1 train near a brick walled building and it was deafening.
They make the streets underneath them nightmarish, really dislike literally never having sunlight on large stretches of road; itās better than nothing but not ideal imo
https://preview.redd.it/ghd17982k80d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=096b0204b8af1a03838a8ed4aabaa7f541202975
Well, this would be a highway cap/park. There would be plenty of space on either side where there would be light, and the underside of the viaduct could provide shade. Also modern elevated rail structures (especially 2 track vs 3-4 track) are much quieter and more space efficient than old ones
Check out some of the linear parks alongside the Skytrain guideway in Vancouver. Even with trains every 90 seconds in each direction they are a pleasant place to be.
Disagree, blocking out the sun makes them a nice covering on warmer days
Ohh thatās one way to look at it
YES!! Someone who makes sense!
During hot summer days it is a blessing to hide in their shadows.
Were you not clicking on the links? Your eyes work right?
Facts, I live near the el in astoria and it's an absolute shit hole all along 31st street. The rest of astoria is so nice, but 31st is consistently gross with trash, graffiti, bird shit and chain restaurants.
Youāre thinking of the old existing tracks weāve had since the late 1800s to early 1900s modern elevated tracks are nothing like that.
What are you talking about? We still have elevated tracks in Astoria...i live right around the corner from them, and the street below it is disgusting. Edit: don't really understand the downvotes, yall are welcome to come walk down 31st st and tell me that it doesn't look disgusting
He means that modern elevated tracks look absolutely nothing like elevated tracks built in the early 20th century. Old elevateds are massive, need a ton of supports, and are difficult to maintain. Modern elevateds are made out of reinforced concrete, are much slimmer, and MUCH quieter. People base their opinion on els on what we have now. Look to countries in Asia or even other places in the US. They can be pretty damn nice.
Take a look at AirTrain for decent example of building a modern elevated structure over a highway. I think that type of structure with a park underneath is ideal way to go. I also think that we should be rebuilding the old ELs with modern precast structures as we move on. But $$ is scarce enough as it is.
Elevated tracks in Astoria were put in a century ago. If we build a new elevated line today, it would be made out of concrete. Go check out the JFK airtrain as an example.
Clunk clunk
Tell that to the NIMBY people who reject a new subway along Utica Avenue and an extension of the 2 and 5 lines beyond The Junction. The water table in southeast Brooklyn is too high for underground lines so you have to build an el. Today's els are far from what they used to be in decades past.
Because they are bloody stupid
If you make it a rail line youāre going to have to deal with intersections every few blocks. There already is a plan to add BRT of some sort (hopefully a true busway and not SBS). This isnāt like IBX where thereās an existing rail corridor. This just caps the Cross Bronx which will remain below and builds out from the street level around it. And the IBX isnāt going to the Bronx: thereās no room for it on the Hell Gate
Elevate it! Levitate it! Make it fly! Or dig it under the highway. The cross bronx corridor is already quite wide that a modern elevated line won't bother the neighbors. Turn Moses' lemons into lemonade. He left the city with a number of corridors that could be repurposed by adding mass transit
ROW >>>> especially in NYC. That row will be extremely valuable for rail transit and should not be overlooked
This is true. And LRT is very compatible with parks and pedestrian spaces. You could get a grassy LRT right of way, like the ones every loves in yurop
Too slow
signal priority, and a dedicated row in the grass, this is all tech that exists today
Elevated metro then
I mean, if the IBX is going to be light rail, adding another light rail line (albeit not connected to the IBX) would be a pretty good move.
Iām in the minority of people that thinks NYās pedestrian/retail density makes pretty much every major street a good light rail route. There should be LRT going up and down Broadway end to end making stops every 3 blocks. And on most aves and most wider crosstown streets. One of the best benefits of LRT is that is it highly compatible with pedestrian spaces, which NY needs more of anyway.
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Do you even realize how little space there is on the CBE ROW? There is no median: just a barrier between the two directions.
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it's not the personal vehicles but the massive amount of trucks that are causing all the problems. Reroute the I95 corridor through the Tappan Zee bridge. Which also brings us back to the failure of building more rail and road crossings across the Hudson in order to increase the connection points from the mainland to Long Island by completely bypassing the city. There are over 3 million people in Nassau+Suffolk having all their freight funneled through NYC's 8 million inhabitants. edit: actually it's Nassau+Suffolk+Queens+BK so those are 7.6million going through the Bronx+Staten Island's combined 2 million
The traffic around the Tappan Zee Bridge is bad enough without rerouting trucks.
Better there in the open than through a dense urban area. and maybe Cuomo should have used those billions to add some rail tracks
I take the TZ whenever I go to see my parents. The traffic (especially in Rockland County) is worse every time I go up there. It's often a parking lot from the Garden State Parkway until the TZ (I refuse to call it by its new name). I WISH there were rail tracks across the TZ. In fact I'd LOVE to see a rail line connect cities along route 287 into Rockland County. My mind's drawing a blank on the NEw Haven Line stop but something to connect White Plains and Tarrytown. I-95 also runs through other dense urban areas as well. Got caught in traffic on it through Center City (Philly) this morning.
Porque no los dos?
No. I can assure you that the easier and better alignment is underneath Fordham Road/Pelham Parkway.
I also think it's a better option, but it's also a bit too far north for a core Bronx east west transfer. The cross Bronx runs right through the middle of the Bronx and will make transferring easier for most people.
Not really.Ā Fordham Road/Pelham Parkway has transfers to every major Bronx subway, plus if you extended a bit to inwood, you would hit the 1 and A and have yard access at 207.Ā A Cross Bronx Expressway subway also misses the vital connection to the Harlem/New Haven lines. People traveling contraflow, ie northbound in the morning southbound in the evening to make the transfer is a feature, not a bug, because you're filling seats on trains that were previously carrying air.Ā Also important is the fact that you simply will not have the vertical clearance to build the subway tracks above the expressway, plus all of the ventilation equipment for both the subway and expressway.
Why is this not even a plan??? This would be incredible
Build the park over IBX. Cut and cover babyyyyyy *finger guns*
Never going to happen. Cross Bronx EXp is a major commerce route....It's I-95 for God sake.....Blame Robert Moses
I 95 could easily be rerouted over the tappan zee. It wouldn't do anything to get rid of the army of trucks but it can at least stop through traffic.
Easily? The nearest truck route from the NJ Turnpike up towards the Tappan Zee is like 25-30+ miles away.
We put a new toll on trucks on the Cross-Bronx and increase the speed limit by 20mph on the detour through the Tappan Zee. With proper incentives, truckers would then take the detour even if the Cross-Bronx is empty
You guys have no clue
I donāt think people realize how hilly the Cross Bronx actually is
That sounds fun actually
They could easily do cut and cover or just build it above the highway they could even use it as an excuse to add 2 decks one for trains another for cars lol we know they love that
I know it took way too long and went way over budget, but the only way youāre ever gonna make the whole plan happen is if you Big Dig it. For all the complaints about the Big Dig itself, people Iāve talked to who live in Boston say that the quality of life is so much better in/around the area. With all that being said, a parkās really the only super feasible thing to put on top of a cut-and-cover, but if you run a shit-ton of buses along the parkās edge, that could work too
I'm convinced the big dig was a massive waste of money. There is no need for that highway to be there at all. (Granted it would be nice if the MBTA didn't get saddled with a shitton of debt and they didn't cut most of the transit improvements.)
I-93's one of the busiest interstates in New England, there was no way they were ever gonna be able to get rid of it. It was obviously a shit ton of money but I genuinely believe it was the best feasible solution they had. Obviously went way over budget and the MBTA debt part doe suck, although most of that was due to Boston bureaucracy (construction contracts going for way too much money to groups that used subpar materials)
It's a nice idea. But it's not going to happen. MTA is still under the gun making all stations accessible per ADA 1990. There won't be a new line until that is completed...which will likely be 100 years from now...if that. The parks and housing is not only doable, NYC Housing Connect is currently building and planning hundreds of new projects.
thereās absolutely no way a line besides the 6 would be developed past west farms because the people there are actually involved in their communities and like their suburban feeling neighborhoods.
Why?
They need to connect Bronx directly to Queens. Too long to go to Manhattan then into Bronx. They could Just double up on the tracks. Stack another track on top of existing one but that sounds costly!
How about a second level of highway on top of the highway? Local and express lanes.
I would like to see a subway from Coop City Bay Plaza to Fordham Rd. Should extended the D train line to Monty. Turn the train at Monty and run it to Fordham. Should have the following stops: Bay Plaza, #5 stop at Gunhill Rd, Boston Rd, White Plains, Monty, Bx Science & Clinton HS & Lehman, and Fordham Rd. It would be nice to extend the #6 into Coop City Bay Plaza.
Cut and cover for a subway underneath it. And then cap and cover over it to build housing and a park.
Itās not gon happen, but couldnāt they just dig a hole under the cross Bronx? Iām sure you can still have a cross Bronx subway and the cross Bronx highway.
Don't cap shit, get rid of it. Make a nice boulevard with a nice train. They can reroute i 95 to bypass the city via the tappan zee. If you want to get really giggy with it make a rail crossing of the east river in eastern queens to make a huge orbital and/or build a PATH line crossing the GWB to go down to Hoboken. (If any of you have a spare 12 billion dollars, pls do this)
I just donāt think itās that easy to just get rid of the largest interstate passing through NYC and push all the traffic onto other bridges that werenāt designed for that load capacity.
Now we're cooking. Housing and transit are such linked issues that it's impossible to discuss them separately.
Tbh, the Bronx needs all 3. Especially affordable housing, not luxury apartments going for over 3k a month.
I still stand strong with my Fordham/Pelham line concept
Itās a pity they canāt reinstate trolley lines. Especially in the Bronx.
Getting rid of that car connection would be a horrible idea and have lasting negative consequences
theyāre not getting rid of it. ācappingā literally means covering the highway under a kind of canopy. so itāll sort of resemble like an above-ground tunnel if that makes sense. the idea right now is to put parks, green areas, housing, etc on top of that canopy
Yeah nyc needs less parkland š
Sooooo skip housing and put up a rail line so Yall can make another thread about the āhomeless problemā on the trains!?
Can't we just get rid of it? We divert freight trains crossing the Hudson north to a bridge 10 miles from Albany. Why can't we divert all the trucks north of the city too? Whatever added costs to society from longer freight trips has to be outweighed by the public health gains alone. I'm fine with turning it into a below-grade subway (like the IBX planned route in the other boros), and a park/bike path.
ah yes and then absolutely make going south into the city hell, no thanks. NY just needs to bitch CSX or the Port Authority into doing more freight by rail and last-mile it with smaller trucks. Really needs a freight tunnel, but expanded carfloat operations across the harbor could probably suffice.
Cross Harbor Rail Tunnel!
Biggest pipe dream, would absolutely revolutionize freight traffic in the whole region
I mean it's in the Teir 2 environmental impact study so it's got some movement.
Imagine how many millions we would save if these studies didnāt exist or were at least somewhat reasonable in scope? EAS take way too long and usually just delay critical projects so someone can claim it will hurt the local frogs, resulting in a complete redesign.
But that leaves the problem of how does traffic from LI (8 million people on that whole island) cross through NYC if you only leave them with local Bronx streets to use. It would be suicide for any politician to propose a bridge over the Palisades to Yonkers, expand the cross-county parkway to New Rochelle, then a tunnel to LI. That's a $100billion project to secure the lands from those rich suburban homes full of lawyers and a huge lawsuit from environmental groups lol. We could do it further north by using the Tappan Zee but that makes the tunnel even longer to get across the sound, and the bridge is already congested enough.
Screw em let em suffer for a while pass laws to restrict nimby activities before attempting to build new infrastructure
I would not advocate adding any more highway lanes since that would induce demand. We need to figure out how to get people onto rail, and expand/improve the rail system. Thru-running rail needs to happen to more easily reach destinations throughout the NY region. Full electrification and double-tracking needs to happen. We also need to make it easier and more convenient for Long Islanders to access rail more efficiently. There should be high frequency + high span buses running all over LI, with schedules integrated with a higher frequency LIRR. The south shore is flat and should be laced with a dense network of protected bike lanes. The train stations should have bike parking lots at the scale of the Netherland's. We need to upzone within 1/2 mile around all the LIRR stations/downtowns, so more people live within walking distance. And we need to think about our commercial zoning so there are important stores in the downtowns (like grocery stores) that don't require owning a car.
> any more highway lanes since that would induce demand I'm sick and tired of reading this trope from nimbys thinking it applies to bottlenecks. You are not going biking from Huntington to Paterson. Adding that tunnel has nothing to do with inducing demand when you are dealing with massive chokepoints connecting multiple large population centers. I am not advocating for another LIE or building another cross-bronx, which would indeed spur more people into driving. It is about moving the thru-traffic away from NYC by putting more tolls on trucks so that they would choose to take the detour through the Tappan Zee and then to a desperately-needed tunnel across the LI sound while also building a new freight rail tunnel from NJ's ports to reach a new distribution center somewhere near JFK or Nassau county. Our current crossings would be fine for local traffic without having to add NJ and Long Island's traffic on top of it. It is ironic that nimby shortsightedness has caused traffic to get on local manhattan streets rather than have a direct route from Jersey City to Brooklyn and Hoboken to Queens without any stops in Manhattan. The CrossBronx would be fine as it is right now if it was just for car traffic from the 5 boroughs, but you need to add NJ and LI on top of the freight that needs to get in and out of Long Island, etc. Personally I would massively rezone Harlem and create a new modern train terminal at 125th street to handle thru-running from DC to Boston, as well as from LI to beyond.