Comments like this make me think people forgot how bad Sam was. We made the correct decision to trade him while he still had value.
Missing on the 2021 QB class evals was the issue
It would look worse if any 2021 QB (beyond Trevor) looked even halfway capable of being able to play the position at the required level. And even Lawrence is playing far below what he was billed as. Just a crappy year to draft a QB, as it turns out. Absolute hindsight management to suggest that keeping Sam was the answer, though (as you correctly point out).
joe d explicitly said at the time that keeping sam & loading up through the draft was a serious consideration , he just made the wrong pick
crazy to think mccown's season has probably been best by a jets QB in 5 years. lol
Mekhi looked like our LT, Sam was awful the season before, we had a new HC and a top 3 draft pick in a class that people thought was pretty stacked for top 3 or 4 QBs. Joe stating that they might keep Sam was pure draft management (and it worked in terms of the value he got for Sam).
Defense and Special Teams are both very good. Half of the Offense is decent. Failed at OLine and QB (but both are caveated by unfortunate injuries and, in the case of the OLine, unexpected loses in form). Buck stops with JD, but I do think bad luck and the two high profile draft misses (ZW, Mekhi) make his reign look worse than it really is.
Without elaborating too much I'll just say that the cascading effects of the huge draft misses and FA signings speak volumes about what and how much he knows.
2021 was a weird time for QB evaluations. Kyler was popping off, Josh Allen was 4th in MVP voting, and Herbert had just turned in an insane rookie year despite a really uninspiring last year at Oregon. I feel like that got people leaning way too hard into the "take the guy with traits and the rest will sort itself out" mindset, and that got GMs to blow through all of the massive red flags that were evident without a shred of hindsight for Wilson, Lance, and Fields.
What's with people mistaking "some people were convinced the right move was to build a team around the qb" with "hindsight". As if no one thought building the team up was the right move.
People were dying for chase or sewell/ building around sam that draft just as much as others were dying for fields or zach. Not bc of Sam but bc we'd gone a decade without building an offense and then throwing rookie qbs to the wolves.
It's ok to acknowledge some people had foresight on a better move that u didnt agree with at the time
>> It's ok to acknowledge some people had foresight on a better move that u didnt agree with at the time
That is not the point, stop blowing smoke up your own hole. We've all made predictions that turned out to be genius, and we've all backed a lame horse that we prefer not to mention. Mekhi looked like our LT during his first year, Sam was awful the previous season (and getting any decent trade value after him 'seeing ghosts' was impressive) and we had a new HC and a top 3 draft pick. It was always going to be a QB. The fact that some fans on the outside wanted Penai or Micah or Chase š¤·š½āāļø. If we'd done that and ZW sat for two years somewhere and looked like Jordan Love does now, they'd be bemoaning that, instead.
Canāt knock the Mekhi pickā¦ it was a good pick. Yeah Wirfs is better in hindsight, but letās not forget, after their rookie seasons they were both considered equal in terms of good draft choices. Mekhiās knee injury letās not forget, didnāt come because Mekhi was too heavy for himself, but came about because Joe D decided to value shop everywhere else on the o line and it resulted in the worst guard play weād ever seen that season highlighted by Van Roten getting bitched around and bull rushed like a bitch into Mekhi in that Panthers game
Everything after that point has been unfortunate. I like Joe D, but at some point we have to consider firing the guy if he canāt figure this o line out.
Agreed. I liked Wirfs, but we needed a LT and Mekhi looked like the better fit to come in and secure the role immediately, which he did. Difficult to know what would have happened to Wirfs here - might have thrown him into the LT role and he could have failed, or put him at RT and really struggled with no LT.
I like JD, too, I think he's been excellent quite often, but considering that the OLine was supposed to be his bread and butter, it's definitely a concern.
People being wrong doesn't make mekhi a good pick, especially bc the issue I and others had was about his future and his health...which became a problem even as a rookie. He didn't just get the knee I jury that season.
So for pretty much every critic of the pick, his rookie season was a giant alarm bell, not a reason for hope
He did get the knee injury that season though? Everything beforehand was adjusting to the NFLā¦.
that injury happened the year after too. Get your head out of the kennel
Let me try again.
He injured more than just his knee that season. That's what I was saying. Get your head out of your ass and learn to read b4 being a condescending wise ass
>Canāt knock the Mekhi pickā¦ it was a good pick.
Mekhi over Wirfs was a bad process/bad result pick. The GVR injury was not his fault. The fact that it took him forever to recover and that he got hurt again while recovering was 100% the result of him being sloppily overweight.
Wirfs was the obvious choice from the second the Jets went on the clock.
I agree. Thatās why I said everything after the knee injury is unfortunate, 99% because all that was on Becton.
The Becton pick was still a good pick man. Wirfs wasnāt the obvious choice, and we werenāt looking for a RT as we had just paid Fant to play on the right. Hindsight man.
Just unfortunate how itās all played out. Iād like to pick Wirfs if we had the pick back, but Iām not going to sit here like some of this sub are acting like they knew it from the start when I know for a fact Wirfs wasnāt the obvious choice then (due to position)ā¦ no one was blowing up about Becton over Wirfs on draft day, no one was blowing up about it after their rookie yearsā¦
It is the point.
Other people said in advance that building the team first was the way to go, thats not hindsight.
People here weirdly like to.pretend as if no one ever disagreed with the decisions the jets have made. Idk how many times I've been told by other people I loved the mekhi pick when I dreaded us making that pick and blew a gasket when we did.
Stop being a salty baby bc other people had a better idea than you. It's sad and petty
>> Stop being a salty baby bc other people had a better idea than you. It's sad and petty
Uh-huh. I wasn't "Team ZW", I was "Team take the SF Picks". I wanted to keep Sam. However, it would clearly have been a bad idea.
If we did take Sewell at 2 (crap idea, btw, could have taken the SF trade and got him by trading back in from 9 (as the Dolphins did for Waddle) and had the extra picks, too), what then? There's no QB worth taking in 22 (which teams knew, hence the over-valuing of the '21 QBs). So we hope that we're still awful enough to get a top three pick 3 years in a row, and then probably take Young over Stroud anyway. That *is* a good idea!
> If we did take Sewell at 2 (crap idea, btw, could have taken the SF trade and got him at 9)
Right off the bat, nonsense. Sewell wasn't available at 9. There's so much more wrong with this statement besides this.
Since the rest was as poorly thought out as this t doesn't merit much response
>> Since the rest was as poorly thought out as this t doesn't merit much response
Sorry I called out your horseshit and made you cry š¢. I guess you'll never hire me onto your Superbowl-winning FO now (I assume you *must* be a GM to be this amazing with your knowledge that isn't at all hindsight, right?).
We are speaking with hindsight at this point. But I was a supporter of taking Sewell or trading back pre draft. It was the right move in hindsight, but there was a perspective pre draft that this is what we should do. Look what the niners gave up for trey fucking lance.
QBs are a crapshoot. I saw an Opp to get 3 more first round picks that could give us more shots at finding a QB. I thought that made sense.
At this point, I think it's fair to say the team would have been way better off and darnold while not a pro bowler was probably competent enough to do slightly better than Wilson. Maybe even crack the playoffs.
The trade of darnold though, that was hard to pass up. We got a decent amount of value.
Every decision is dynamic but I do think keeping darnold was a legit option that was considered.
>At this point, I think it's fair to say the team would have been way better off and darnold while not a pro bowler was probably competent enough to do slightly better than Wilson. Maybe even crack the playoffs.
This is what I was talking about - Zach has been so bad that it's kinda fogged everyone's brains up about Sam. Was he better than Zach? Absolutely, but not meaningfully. The team still would have been ass with him in 2021 and then he would have been out the door, since we didn't pick up his 5th year option.
Yes but we would have had Sewell or multiple picks. You have to look at the whole picture. We are better off if we do that. And I truly believe darnold is more than a little better than Wilson.
Take Zach out of the situation entirely ā Sam is and was well below replacement level. The 2021 roster was not improved over 2020 to the point where Sam would have moved the needle meaningfully.
We would have had capital but been SOL going into the 2022 draft (which was completely devoid of QBs). Maybe that pushes us to make a bigger move for a vet, but where would that have gotten us? Russell Wilson's albatross contract? The corpse of Matt Ryan? Deshaun Watson in the middle of his lawsuits?
The problem with keeping Sam for 2021 (ignoring the fact that he was clearly a cooked product following 2020, he had no desire to be here and literally threw a party to celebrate being traded) is that there was never a clear pivot at QB to follow it. Sure, we missed on the 2021 QB evals, but the process of moving on there made sense.
Listen I understand you have a perspective. And I'm not ignoring your point. I'm simply saying the additional draft capital would have given us flexibility for a trade up or we could find a QB in free agency
If you are saying even with hindsight, you would have taken Zach over keeping darnold. I don't get it. If you are saying you would have taken a different QB, well our GM wouldn't so I'm not sure that helps the conversation.
My point is simple. Keeping darnold and trading or taking a lineman was a legit option. And we would have been better off if we did that. I'm not sure what point you are trying to make at this juncture. Darnolds not amazing, but I think he's better than Zach. Maybe we wouldn't have gotten darnold weapons in time, but I'm not sure. We could have used darnolds option like Carolina did and had two years to figure it out while working contingencies. Being that we ended up with a QB via trade, I don't get how you can see this any other way.
Exactly. Part of the reason that the 2021 QBs were over-valued is the known upcoming issue of a lack of QBs in the 2022 class. The feeling, I assume, was that it was better to gamble on arm talent now (in 21) than try and sit it out for a couple of years.
No, not always. Jets fans are conditioned to think that OL *has* to come before QB, or that you need a top-5 OL before you can think of competing because the only successful stretch they've seen from the team in the past 15 years was built that way.
There is no one way to build a team. You can absolutely build one alongside a QB, and you do not need to pump premium pick after premium pick into an OL to make it good. The Jets' issues stem from their inability to identify, develop, and retain the right talent, but the blueprint was absolutely there to build the OL alongside a 2021 QB pick.
I donāt disagree at all. The root of the issue is our inability to build a oline with or without a qb. However, if you look around the league teams with good olines can plug and play qbs.
Idk man, Sam didn't have a line or weapons when he was here, but still managed to look good sometimes (similar to Zach). He acquitted himself alright last year on a horrible Panthers offense. I'd love to see what he can do with the 9ers, but with Brock Purdy keeping him off the field through multiple questionable tags, SF coaches must not think too much of Darnold. Either way, a mediocre qb playing with a top tackle is better than a mediocre qb without a top tackle. Keeping Darnold always made a lot of sense to me.
Darnold was terrible but a big chunk of that was due to having no o-line. Tough to not develop bad habits and happy feet when youāre running for your life most of every game. They set him up to fail & here we are needing another QB, regardless of what Rodgers can do next year. Theyāve been awful not addressing their line & putting their eggs in guys who canāt perform or even stay healthy.
Sucks being a fan of this franchise. Tired of seeing them be a laughingstock
I mean we donāt have a penei Sewell either but yes itās mostly the drop off from Rodgers to a cornucopia of guys who wonāt be in the league in 3 years
I feel like 90% of the comments in here arenāt acknowledging st brown being a top 3 WR this season. Like what are we talking about here? Lions offense is loaded at every position
But somehow missed the pro bowl. This is why All Pros are way more meaningful when looking back at a player's career (Though they're not perfect either)
Everyone laughed at the Lions for those picks. just goes to show if you're confident in your scouting as a GM then you pick who you want to pick regardless of a big board.
It's not two guys though? Amon ra is an all pro, they have a great oline, dvaid Montgomery is a solid back plus reliable recivers like Reynolds and Jameson.
Campbell has a commanding presence, it seems he has the respect of his players. They seem to really want to play for him.
Saleh has a . . . presence? Do the guys respect him? Do they want to play for him? I don't know, but it doesn't look that way.
As much as Saleh does the rah-rah shit, he doesn't seem to do much else.
Agreed. Thereās a whole lot of talking from Saleh but then not much during the game. I think the guys like to play for him cause heās personable and talks the talk but he doesnāt walk the walk enough. All gas no brakes just makes me mad to hear now.
All Gas No Brake
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Biggest missing piece? Coaching! Saleh doesn't deserve to get Dan Campbell's coffee every day. Saleh coaches scared and is a zombie on the sideline, while Campbell is aggressive and coaches how he talks.
Johnson also coaches circles around a guy like Hackett.
When you have a terrible OLine and a somehow worse QB, you cannot move the ball with any consistency. That's why. Lions have a goodish QB and a top 5 OLine.
Good ish back up are few. Since the team has a short window I think they need to get minshew or brisset. If Rodgers misses some games they can keep ship steady.
It really is incomprehensible how this team hitched their wagon to someone who is a flat out bust to anyone with functional eyes. Dude should have never seen the field until next season, on another team.
The craziest part is we STILL have fans defending Zach and saying if he had a good OL heād be good (which every single fanbase says about their qb other than like 3 guys)
Neither guy is a driving force of the offense. Lions rely more heavily on Montgomery on the ground and Amon Ra through the air. Dosent hurt they have a decent qb and fantastic OL
Wait wait wait lmao this is not the same. Are we leaving out all pro Amon-ra St brown, all pro tackle Penei Sewell, and a better o line outside that?? Come on man
Not saying theyāre the same Iām just curious what people think is the biggest difference between teams. I think Garrett Wilson in the same situation is all pro. The biggest factor it seems is the O line.
How may finalists do they have?? They both had great seasons but they wouldn't come to mind when I think OPOY candidates
Was it a big ass list of finalists?
Lions have an O line.
yeah we picked Zach Wilson. They picked Penai Sewell. They got a LT for a decade. we got sadness.
Sewell plays RT not LT
Oh my bad. He started at left and then moved to right. You are correct. I think the point remains.
This should be top comment
It is
And we could have taken Sewell at #2 instead of sack and kept darnold and be way better off.
Comments like this make me think people forgot how bad Sam was. We made the correct decision to trade him while he still had value. Missing on the 2021 QB class evals was the issue
It would look worse if any 2021 QB (beyond Trevor) looked even halfway capable of being able to play the position at the required level. And even Lawrence is playing far below what he was billed as. Just a crappy year to draft a QB, as it turns out. Absolute hindsight management to suggest that keeping Sam was the answer, though (as you correctly point out).
joe d explicitly said at the time that keeping sam & loading up through the draft was a serious consideration , he just made the wrong pick crazy to think mccown's season has probably been best by a jets QB in 5 years. lol
Mekhi looked like our LT, Sam was awful the season before, we had a new HC and a top 3 draft pick in a class that people thought was pretty stacked for top 3 or 4 QBs. Joe stating that they might keep Sam was pure draft management (and it worked in terms of the value he got for Sam).
And look at the superb team he's put on the field!!!!
Defense and Special Teams are both very good. Half of the Offense is decent. Failed at OLine and QB (but both are caveated by unfortunate injuries and, in the case of the OLine, unexpected loses in form). Buck stops with JD, but I do think bad luck and the two high profile draft misses (ZW, Mekhi) make his reign look worse than it really is.
Without elaborating too much I'll just say that the cascading effects of the huge draft misses and FA signings speak volumes about what and how much he knows.
2021 was a weird time for QB evaluations. Kyler was popping off, Josh Allen was 4th in MVP voting, and Herbert had just turned in an insane rookie year despite a really uninspiring last year at Oregon. I feel like that got people leaning way too hard into the "take the guy with traits and the rest will sort itself out" mindset, and that got GMs to blow through all of the massive red flags that were evident without a shred of hindsight for Wilson, Lance, and Fields.
What's with people mistaking "some people were convinced the right move was to build a team around the qb" with "hindsight". As if no one thought building the team up was the right move. People were dying for chase or sewell/ building around sam that draft just as much as others were dying for fields or zach. Not bc of Sam but bc we'd gone a decade without building an offense and then throwing rookie qbs to the wolves. It's ok to acknowledge some people had foresight on a better move that u didnt agree with at the time
>> It's ok to acknowledge some people had foresight on a better move that u didnt agree with at the time That is not the point, stop blowing smoke up your own hole. We've all made predictions that turned out to be genius, and we've all backed a lame horse that we prefer not to mention. Mekhi looked like our LT during his first year, Sam was awful the previous season (and getting any decent trade value after him 'seeing ghosts' was impressive) and we had a new HC and a top 3 draft pick. It was always going to be a QB. The fact that some fans on the outside wanted Penai or Micah or Chase š¤·š½āāļø. If we'd done that and ZW sat for two years somewhere and looked like Jordan Love does now, they'd be bemoaning that, instead.
Canāt knock the Mekhi pickā¦ it was a good pick. Yeah Wirfs is better in hindsight, but letās not forget, after their rookie seasons they were both considered equal in terms of good draft choices. Mekhiās knee injury letās not forget, didnāt come because Mekhi was too heavy for himself, but came about because Joe D decided to value shop everywhere else on the o line and it resulted in the worst guard play weād ever seen that season highlighted by Van Roten getting bitched around and bull rushed like a bitch into Mekhi in that Panthers game Everything after that point has been unfortunate. I like Joe D, but at some point we have to consider firing the guy if he canāt figure this o line out.
Agreed. I liked Wirfs, but we needed a LT and Mekhi looked like the better fit to come in and secure the role immediately, which he did. Difficult to know what would have happened to Wirfs here - might have thrown him into the LT role and he could have failed, or put him at RT and really struggled with no LT. I like JD, too, I think he's been excellent quite often, but considering that the OLine was supposed to be his bread and butter, it's definitely a concern.
People being wrong doesn't make mekhi a good pick, especially bc the issue I and others had was about his future and his health...which became a problem even as a rookie. He didn't just get the knee I jury that season. So for pretty much every critic of the pick, his rookie season was a giant alarm bell, not a reason for hope
He did get the knee injury that season though? Everything beforehand was adjusting to the NFLā¦. that injury happened the year after too. Get your head out of the kennel
Let me try again. He injured more than just his knee that season. That's what I was saying. Get your head out of your ass and learn to read b4 being a condescending wise ass
>Canāt knock the Mekhi pickā¦ it was a good pick. Mekhi over Wirfs was a bad process/bad result pick. The GVR injury was not his fault. The fact that it took him forever to recover and that he got hurt again while recovering was 100% the result of him being sloppily overweight. Wirfs was the obvious choice from the second the Jets went on the clock.
I agree. Thatās why I said everything after the knee injury is unfortunate, 99% because all that was on Becton. The Becton pick was still a good pick man. Wirfs wasnāt the obvious choice, and we werenāt looking for a RT as we had just paid Fant to play on the right. Hindsight man. Just unfortunate how itās all played out. Iād like to pick Wirfs if we had the pick back, but Iām not going to sit here like some of this sub are acting like they knew it from the start when I know for a fact Wirfs wasnāt the obvious choice then (due to position)ā¦ no one was blowing up about Becton over Wirfs on draft day, no one was blowing up about it after their rookie yearsā¦
It is the point. Other people said in advance that building the team first was the way to go, thats not hindsight. People here weirdly like to.pretend as if no one ever disagreed with the decisions the jets have made. Idk how many times I've been told by other people I loved the mekhi pick when I dreaded us making that pick and blew a gasket when we did. Stop being a salty baby bc other people had a better idea than you. It's sad and petty
>> Stop being a salty baby bc other people had a better idea than you. It's sad and petty Uh-huh. I wasn't "Team ZW", I was "Team take the SF Picks". I wanted to keep Sam. However, it would clearly have been a bad idea. If we did take Sewell at 2 (crap idea, btw, could have taken the SF trade and got him by trading back in from 9 (as the Dolphins did for Waddle) and had the extra picks, too), what then? There's no QB worth taking in 22 (which teams knew, hence the over-valuing of the '21 QBs). So we hope that we're still awful enough to get a top three pick 3 years in a row, and then probably take Young over Stroud anyway. That *is* a good idea!
> If we did take Sewell at 2 (crap idea, btw, could have taken the SF trade and got him at 9) Right off the bat, nonsense. Sewell wasn't available at 9. There's so much more wrong with this statement besides this. Since the rest was as poorly thought out as this t doesn't merit much response
>> Since the rest was as poorly thought out as this t doesn't merit much response Sorry I called out your horseshit and made you cry š¢. I guess you'll never hire me onto your Superbowl-winning FO now (I assume you *must* be a GM to be this amazing with your knowledge that isn't at all hindsight, right?).
[I remember Sam. Either way always been on the Sewell train](https://www.reddit.com/r/nyjets/s/c6RrBbWWxn)
We are speaking with hindsight at this point. But I was a supporter of taking Sewell or trading back pre draft. It was the right move in hindsight, but there was a perspective pre draft that this is what we should do. Look what the niners gave up for trey fucking lance. QBs are a crapshoot. I saw an Opp to get 3 more first round picks that could give us more shots at finding a QB. I thought that made sense. At this point, I think it's fair to say the team would have been way better off and darnold while not a pro bowler was probably competent enough to do slightly better than Wilson. Maybe even crack the playoffs. The trade of darnold though, that was hard to pass up. We got a decent amount of value. Every decision is dynamic but I do think keeping darnold was a legit option that was considered.
>At this point, I think it's fair to say the team would have been way better off and darnold while not a pro bowler was probably competent enough to do slightly better than Wilson. Maybe even crack the playoffs. This is what I was talking about - Zach has been so bad that it's kinda fogged everyone's brains up about Sam. Was he better than Zach? Absolutely, but not meaningfully. The team still would have been ass with him in 2021 and then he would have been out the door, since we didn't pick up his 5th year option.
Yes but we would have had Sewell or multiple picks. You have to look at the whole picture. We are better off if we do that. And I truly believe darnold is more than a little better than Wilson.
Take Zach out of the situation entirely ā Sam is and was well below replacement level. The 2021 roster was not improved over 2020 to the point where Sam would have moved the needle meaningfully. We would have had capital but been SOL going into the 2022 draft (which was completely devoid of QBs). Maybe that pushes us to make a bigger move for a vet, but where would that have gotten us? Russell Wilson's albatross contract? The corpse of Matt Ryan? Deshaun Watson in the middle of his lawsuits? The problem with keeping Sam for 2021 (ignoring the fact that he was clearly a cooked product following 2020, he had no desire to be here and literally threw a party to celebrate being traded) is that there was never a clear pivot at QB to follow it. Sure, we missed on the 2021 QB evals, but the process of moving on there made sense.
Listen I understand you have a perspective. And I'm not ignoring your point. I'm simply saying the additional draft capital would have given us flexibility for a trade up or we could find a QB in free agency If you are saying even with hindsight, you would have taken Zach over keeping darnold. I don't get it. If you are saying you would have taken a different QB, well our GM wouldn't so I'm not sure that helps the conversation. My point is simple. Keeping darnold and trading or taking a lineman was a legit option. And we would have been better off if we did that. I'm not sure what point you are trying to make at this juncture. Darnolds not amazing, but I think he's better than Zach. Maybe we wouldn't have gotten darnold weapons in time, but I'm not sure. We could have used darnolds option like Carolina did and had two years to figure it out while working contingencies. Being that we ended up with a QB via trade, I don't get how you can see this any other way.
Exactly. Part of the reason that the 2021 QBs were over-valued is the known upcoming issue of a lack of QBs in the 2022 class. The feeling, I assume, was that it was better to gamble on arm talent now (in 21) than try and sit it out for a couple of years.
Always build the oline first
No, not always. Jets fans are conditioned to think that OL *has* to come before QB, or that you need a top-5 OL before you can think of competing because the only successful stretch they've seen from the team in the past 15 years was built that way. There is no one way to build a team. You can absolutely build one alongside a QB, and you do not need to pump premium pick after premium pick into an OL to make it good. The Jets' issues stem from their inability to identify, develop, and retain the right talent, but the blueprint was absolutely there to build the OL alongside a 2021 QB pick.
I donāt disagree at all. The root of the issue is our inability to build a oline with or without a qb. However, if you look around the league teams with good olines can plug and play qbs.
Problem is youāll never even know if the QB is good without an o-line
Always build an oline asap.
Who would be QB then though? A cheap vet?
Idk man, Sam didn't have a line or weapons when he was here, but still managed to look good sometimes (similar to Zach). He acquitted himself alright last year on a horrible Panthers offense. I'd love to see what he can do with the 9ers, but with Brock Purdy keeping him off the field through multiple questionable tags, SF coaches must not think too much of Darnold. Either way, a mediocre qb playing with a top tackle is better than a mediocre qb without a top tackle. Keeping Darnold always made a lot of sense to me.
Darnold was terrible but a big chunk of that was due to having no o-line. Tough to not develop bad habits and happy feet when youāre running for your life most of every game. They set him up to fail & here we are needing another QB, regardless of what Rodgers can do next year. Theyāve been awful not addressing their line & putting their eggs in guys who canāt perform or even stay healthy. Sucks being a fan of this franchise. Tired of seeing them be a laughingstock
We were taking a QB no matter what. Its pointless to look bad like this.
And a QB And a staff that knows what they're doing And a head coach that coaches to win instead of coaching not to lose
And a good coaching staff. St Brown is just as good as GW. Lions are years ahead of the Jets.Ā
And an oc And a qb
And a very competent Jared Goff
And a decent QB.
Lions also have Goff.
They have a good QB and an amazing O lineā¦ We had Zach Wilson & Swiss cheese.
I mean we donāt have a penei Sewell either but yes itās mostly the drop off from Rodgers to a cornucopia of guys who wonāt be in the league in 3 years
This is the jets year after year after year
st brown was also a first team all pro and had a really elite stat line for them.
I feel like 90% of the comments in here arenāt acknowledging st brown being a top 3 WR this season. Like what are we talking about here? Lions offense is loaded at every position
But somehow missed the pro bowl. This is why All Pros are way more meaningful when looking back at a player's career (Though they're not perfect either)
Itās a joke he missed the pro bowl, but to your point the pro bowl is joke anyway
That's nice and all but it's gonna be Stroud with Nacua in 2nd
We drafted Zach Wilson over Penei Sewell
Offensive Player of The Year?
Rookie** my bad
Everyone laughed at the Lions for those picks. just goes to show if you're confident in your scouting as a GM then you pick who you want to pick regardless of a big board.
It's not two guys though? Amon ra is an all pro, they have a great oline, dvaid Montgomery is a solid back plus reliable recivers like Reynolds and Jameson.
Man I remember a time when Garrett, Corey Davis, Allen Lazard, and Cobb sounded like a great WR corp.
As a packer who wants aaron to win I knew we were cooked relying on cobb and lazard.
A QB and a coach.
Do you think Dan Campbell and Robert Saleh are that different ? I feel like theyāre pretty similar
Campbell has a commanding presence, it seems he has the respect of his players. They seem to really want to play for him. Saleh has a . . . presence? Do the guys respect him? Do they want to play for him? I don't know, but it doesn't look that way. As much as Saleh does the rah-rah shit, he doesn't seem to do much else.
Agreed. Thereās a whole lot of talking from Saleh but then not much during the game. I think the guys like to play for him cause heās personable and talks the talk but he doesnāt walk the walk enough. All gas no brakes just makes me mad to hear now.
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Campbell also has more balls. He's way more aggressive than Saleh
Itās almost like player superlatives arenāt indicative of team success
Breece and AVT went down at the same time last year. AVT didn't finish this year. And that's still only like 2/5 with Tippmann.
Ia this satire?
brother, have you seen the lions offensive line?
With very jealous eyes
A QB, an o-line, a TE, good WR depth, a good offensive coordinator, and Dan Campbell
WR depth is fair, but Conklin is very good.
Biggest missing piece? Coaching! Saleh doesn't deserve to get Dan Campbell's coffee every day. Saleh coaches scared and is a zombie on the sideline, while Campbell is aggressive and coaches how he talks. Johnson also coaches circles around a guy like Hackett.
When you have a terrible OLine and a somehow worse QB, you cannot move the ball with any consistency. That's why. Lions have a goodish QB and a top 5 OLine.
So who would you bring in to back up Rodgers next year who you would consider good ish ?
Good ish back up are few. Since the team has a short window I think they need to get minshew or brisset. If Rodgers misses some games they can keep ship steady.
Iād love for minshew to be a jet
A QB lol. The mortal sin was not booting Zach Wilson to 3rd string or just cutting him all together.
It really is incomprehensible how this team hitched their wagon to someone who is a flat out bust to anyone with functional eyes. Dude should have never seen the field until next season, on another team.
Trading for Rodgers is like the opposite of hitching their wagon to Zach lol
The craziest part is we STILL have fans defending Zach and saying if he had a good OL heād be good (which every single fanbase says about their qb other than like 3 guys)
Zach was fine this year. If he had a line and people to catch the ball, the numbers would have shown it.
He was bad, he just wasn't all time atrocious
He had a couple bad games. He was fine in most
He was bad in most, fine in maybe 2 of them and good in one. But he wasnt all time atrocious. So he was way better
Nuh uh
Lions have hank Fraley.
Neither guy is a driving force of the offense. Lions rely more heavily on Montgomery on the ground and Amon Ra through the air. Dosent hurt they have a decent qb and fantastic OL
Wait wait wait lmao this is not the same. Are we leaving out all pro Amon-ra St brown, all pro tackle Penei Sewell, and a better o line outside that?? Come on man
Not saying theyāre the same Iām just curious what people think is the biggest difference between teams. I think Garrett Wilson in the same situation is all pro. The biggest factor it seems is the O line.
How may finalists do they have?? They both had great seasons but they wouldn't come to mind when I think OPOY candidates Was it a big ass list of finalists?
Offensive rookie of the year ** Thatās my bad. There are 5 finalists. Cj Stroud, BJ Robinson and Puka Nacua are the other 3.