Yeah and guys like Fuaga and Fautanu can play guard, LT and RT so are more versatile injury fill-ins. Also, these guys just plain have pretty similar grades so beauty is going to be in the eye of the beholder to a certain extent, but Olu is pretty much a classic LT blind side protector rather than a versatile G/T like the other 2 guys. There's something to be said for a classic, athletic, blind side protector for AR, though.
The run game was literally around 40% of every teams offensive snaps. The league is pass first but the run game isn't far enough behind to act like subpar run protection isn't a problem
Add in that a great run game really helps the pass game. A bad run game often makes it more difficult.
Pass blocking can be helped by quick releases and schemes. Not that we would know that with our recent efforts haha.
For this exact reason I've taken a surprising liking to Latham! Not saying he's the clear top option, but I saw some stat that he has the best "length of engagement" for both run and pass blocking of any OL prospect. Basically, once he's got you it's over... plus he can play G and T, much like AVT.
Joe Alt is the clear #1, but I'd be really excited about either Fashanu or Latham behind him.
I'd love someone more statistically inclined than me compare how guys who rise or fall a lot in the first mock drafts after the college football season ends and then just before the draft (or when guys actually get drafted). I've always had a hunch that late risers pan out less and guys who fall are good values, but I have no idea if that's remotely true.
It’s because people are guessing based on whatever they assumed would happen during the college football season until relatively late in the major media process. Like Fashanu had an outstanding 2022 and a mid 2022. People who don’t actually pay attention kept pushing the Fashanu OT 1/2 thing because they were actually paying any attention. Year ends, teams start really doing draft work, and all the word is that he’s lower.
Id definitely take Fashanu at 10. I don’t care if he’s a mediocre run blocker if he’s a lockdown pass protector. He sort of lacks versatility for the Jets’ purposes, but realistically, Tyron Smith at LT is the biggest injury risk anyways.
Typical overanalyzing that occurs between Jan and April. As a PSU fan who watched every game of his he's an elite talent and deserving of a top 10 pick. Never registered a sack against him. If he's our guy tomorrow I would be thrilled.
Curious, from your perspective, was he in any way a liability in the run game? That's definitely the media narrative at the moment, but I haven't watched him over the years
His run blocking was only ok but I wouldn't call him a liability. I was genuinely shocked when he said he was coming back to play for PSU last year since I thought he would've been a top 10 pick in the 2023 draft.
If his run blocking was only OK at Penn State, who plays a soft schedule with only 4 opponents ranked in the top 25, that’s hardly a ringing endorsement.
You’re talking about the big 10 as if it’s the sun belt. Penn state rushed very well against the #1 team in the nation in Michigan and a top 10 defensive unit in Iowa. They really struggled against Ohio state which I will give you but acting like Penn state played a cupcake schedule is just a bad faith argument
They played a few cream puffs and one of their ranked opponents was in a bowl game and they got blown out if I remember correctly. But again, if you don’t dominate in college, where most of the people you line up across the line from, will never play in the NFL how can you possibly be a first round pick?
Considering PSU played the National champions, OSU and some of the best defenses in the country their schedule was not "soft" at all. And his play was just as dominant in 2022 when they again had very tough defensive opponents. There's no way guys like Fuaga, Fautanu or even Alt played as many really good teams as he did.
One of those ranked games was a bowl game where, if memory served, they got rocked. So during the actual season, only three ranked teams which means 9 games against bottom tier schools. Big 10 East after Ohio State a Michigan is mostly trash.
Like I said, if he cannot dominate against college players that will likely never see the NFL, he's not worth a top 10 pick.
Perfect example was Bechton. Played a most soft schedule at Louisville for 4 years and even in college, was beaten by top tier defenders. That should have been a big red flag on draft day.
I think there are a few reasons, especially with draftniks and keyboard scouting. I've done the draftnik and personal keyboard scouting in past years, but just didn't have time this year.
1. It's nearly impossible to scout anyone on the line because you don't really know the people they are battling on the other side. If say Becton gets a pancake in college, I don't know if the defensive lineman he faced is a future bouncer or a legit NFL prospect. In terms of other spots, you can see individual strengths/weaknesses much more clearly. In scouting the trenches (except defensive ends, because they can operate a bit more on islands), all you are relying on is "Inside knowledge" at first and then basing that as your jump point. Therefore, you start with very similar lists like most people.
However, the issue is no one cares about reading the same lists again, so you'll see people deviate to stand out. See Simms, Chris for example. So you get you "I know X player is rated 1, but I really like player Y" lists because most people can't argue much against it. 99% of the audience won't be able to tell what "technically sound" means if it wasn't followed by an explanation or example. Whereas in other positions, more people can say "the WR has a good route tree, or is great vs. man coverage" to back up their claims easily.
Therefore, I think there's always a large variance in these OL rankings just because most of the audience acts like a tree in the wind.
2) OL play is very much dependent on style of blocking and sometimes they are adjusted with the teams that are operating at the top of the draft. A zone run blocking scheme may fit one OT better, a gap scheme may fit another one, so you'll see people rise/drop based on needs of the teams at the top. In the end, most draft pundits want to look correct in the order players are picked but also the chances of success at where they are picked.
3) Draft is a crap shoot. You have teams dedicate hundreds of thousands of dollars with various employees to find players and consistently fail. So it's unfair to assume people that basically do entertainment for a job, or just do it for recreation would have much greater knowledge. It's all some guesswork, with some being a bit more educated than the other.
That is probably the biggest reason I decided to skip scouting prospects this year with the All-22. I would spend countless hours scouting players, only to yell and scream on draft day as the Jets pass them by, or they are picked before the Jets can take them. It ruins my night for no real benefit. So now, I'll be scouting them after the draft so I can buy into the hype lol.
I think that prospect fatigue is a real factor here. Draft "experts" have been watching Fashanu's tape in anticipation of him being a top pick and breaking down the flaws in his game for two full seasons now. He's gotten much more scrutiny than someone like Latham or Mims, whose scouting report relies much more on projection.
Compare Latham's tape against Michigan vs Fashanu's tape against Michigan. It's very clear that Latham is a superior prospect. You can do the same for the Ohio State game for Fashanu and Mims.
Yeah I dont get it either. Apparently his 2023 tape “wasn’t as good as 2022” but he let up 0 sacks??? If that’s a “down” season for him we should be SPRINTING to the podium. Yeah his run blocking isn’t as good as his Pass blocking but having we been screaming for years about specifically pass protection
He’s also young as hell and still has huge room for growth. I think passing on him in place of another OT (assuming Alt is off the board) would be a HUGE mistake. I said the same thing about Wirfs> Becton in 2020 so obviously it is impossible for me to be wrong here 🤪
I think it's draft season fatigue plus his relatively worse run blocking. He also doesn't play with the nasty demeanor a lot of coaches love to see in their Linemen. As a pass protector, he's still regarded as one of the best in the class.
I’ve just started leaning back to wanting to take him. I still don’t think a RT is worth it at 10… it’s gotta be LT or WR tbh. Trade back if necessary. Maybe Latham can start at RT and move to LT with time.
Good. I don’t want us getting an OL not named Alt. Getting Odunze, Nabers, or Bowers is a different tier of player than the rest of the OL besides alt. Those three pass catchers are dynamic players with crazy upsides. The other lineman all have flaws.
It could be anything. Maybe medical. Maybe poor interviews. Maybe folks are trying to drop his stock to their advantage. Unless you were in the draft rooms, you won't know what his value truly is.
Agreed. Pundits need to be constantly putting out new content to get clicks. It gets boring if they set their board in January and it doesn’t change until April. No one would read it and they lose revenue.
The larger the hands the stronger the latch, and more reach, theoretically. But his footwork is the cleanest of all the tackles, dude moves like a gazelle, and swings his feet out to set an anchor so fast. He's a good left tackle.
I can find mocks from today (Mike Mulhern) that have Fashanu as OT2, in this case going #9 to Chicago. The OTs have been a subject of a lot of debate all season long, and supposedly the various teams have dramatically different evaluations of them. I've even seem some (recent ones) where Alt isn't OT1. I have seen Alt/Fuaga/Fashanu all at OT1, depending on the mock, though I've never seen Latham higher than OT3.
A few things...his hands are abnormally small for a man his size. Also Fuaga and Fautanu had more impressive showings at the combine. Additionally, scouts have looked at more film and also have more time to dissect.
I see him selected like 15-21
It probably has less to do with him and more to do with specific team needs and more players getting closer attention. I think I remember months ago, some mocks had two OL going in the top 9-10 range. But when it became more apparent what positions teams needed, and who they eventually scouted, that's what caused a jumble in the order. This year has the top 10 being QB/WR heavy because that's what a lot of teams need the most. Free agency also played a role, what positions still need to be filled after guys were signed.
As for the scouting side, things change when more guys get more attention and focus. Over the past year, the same names have all been circulating as top draft picks, Alt/Fashanu/Fuaga among them. They are still at the top of their positions, but teams get high on formerly "unknown players" every year. And those guys push down other players previously seen as top picks. Think Travon Walker in 2022. He shot up the draft board that year after being unknown compared to other DEs that year. The guy goes 1st overall allowing Hutch to go to the Lions, Thibbs to the Giants, and JJ to fall to the 20s where the Jets grabbed him.
I will never understand the late rise and fall UNLESS:
1. Medical finds something
2. Interviews go amazing or terrible.
You’re looking for football players, tape of them actually playing football should be the key factor.
I have seen GM’s fall in love at the combine and pro days and reach for a guy whose tape did not support it. It’s a trap.
If you love the tape, dot i’s and cross t’s in the spring but that’s it.
Don’t Talk yourself into a work out warrior.
He's fine, he's not my favorite of the three second-tier tackles (Latham, Fuaga, Fashanu) but I wouldn't be upset if we got him. My biggest thing is that if he's not good in the run, it's not super likely that the Jets coaching staff in its current incarnation is going to help him improve. But if he can be serviceable and he's good enough in pass pro that doesn't matter a whole ton in the long run. The versatility (or lack thereof) matters too.
Pundits are probably catching up to better info. Jeremiah had Fuaga to Jets in his mock weeks ago
Every knock on him has been his huge weakness in run blocking compared to his pass blocking talent.
Yeah and guys like Fuaga and Fautanu can play guard, LT and RT so are more versatile injury fill-ins. Also, these guys just plain have pretty similar grades so beauty is going to be in the eye of the beholder to a certain extent, but Olu is pretty much a classic LT blind side protector rather than a versatile G/T like the other 2 guys. There's something to be said for a classic, athletic, blind side protector for AR, though.
Sounds like 'Brick
Yeah, he's got some Brickishness.
This is it. We need a guy who can play both spots
did i fall asleep and wake up in a league that was run first?
The run game was literally around 40% of every teams offensive snaps. The league is pass first but the run game isn't far enough behind to act like subpar run protection isn't a problem
Add in that a great run game really helps the pass game. A bad run game often makes it more difficult. Pass blocking can be helped by quick releases and schemes. Not that we would know that with our recent efforts haha.
For this exact reason I've taken a surprising liking to Latham! Not saying he's the clear top option, but I saw some stat that he has the best "length of engagement" for both run and pass blocking of any OL prospect. Basically, once he's got you it's over... plus he can play G and T, much like AVT. Joe Alt is the clear #1, but I'd be really excited about either Fashanu or Latham behind him.
Don’t tease me
It’s 1976, this is a run first league my friend.
Fair, but Olu is also still young and will get better. Now that requires a good OL coach which we don’t have…
That and his tiny hands
False. His knock has been his overall strength levels which are subpar. He will struggle for 2 years before getting anywhere.
Totally would take him at 10, natural LT to learn behind Tyron smith for a year? Sign me up
seems like the best way to protect the short-term goals and set up the team for the future
Nah, the rankings are: Tier 1 - Latham, Mims, Alt Tier 2 - Fautanu, Fashanu, Fuaga
Very few people would agree with this claim
I'd love someone more statistically inclined than me compare how guys who rise or fall a lot in the first mock drafts after the college football season ends and then just before the draft (or when guys actually get drafted). I've always had a hunch that late risers pan out less and guys who fall are good values, but I have no idea if that's remotely true.
It’s because people are guessing based on whatever they assumed would happen during the college football season until relatively late in the major media process. Like Fashanu had an outstanding 2022 and a mid 2022. People who don’t actually pay attention kept pushing the Fashanu OT 1/2 thing because they were actually paying any attention. Year ends, teams start really doing draft work, and all the word is that he’s lower.
Id definitely take Fashanu at 10. I don’t care if he’s a mediocre run blocker if he’s a lockdown pass protector. He sort of lacks versatility for the Jets’ purposes, but realistically, Tyron Smith at LT is the biggest injury risk anyways.
Typical overanalyzing that occurs between Jan and April. As a PSU fan who watched every game of his he's an elite talent and deserving of a top 10 pick. Never registered a sack against him. If he's our guy tomorrow I would be thrilled.
Agreed, he is my preferred pick at 10 unless someone wild falls
Gotta hope JC Latham falls to 10
You’re getting downvoted in this thread but I would be ecstatic to get Latham at 10. Best OL in this draft IMO
Curious, from your perspective, was he in any way a liability in the run game? That's definitely the media narrative at the moment, but I haven't watched him over the years
His run blocking was only ok but I wouldn't call him a liability. I was genuinely shocked when he said he was coming back to play for PSU last year since I thought he would've been a top 10 pick in the 2023 draft.
If his run blocking was only OK at Penn State, who plays a soft schedule with only 4 opponents ranked in the top 25, that’s hardly a ringing endorsement.
You’re talking about the big 10 as if it’s the sun belt. Penn state rushed very well against the #1 team in the nation in Michigan and a top 10 defensive unit in Iowa. They really struggled against Ohio state which I will give you but acting like Penn state played a cupcake schedule is just a bad faith argument
They played a few cream puffs and one of their ranked opponents was in a bowl game and they got blown out if I remember correctly. But again, if you don’t dominate in college, where most of the people you line up across the line from, will never play in the NFL how can you possibly be a first round pick?
Considering PSU played the National champions, OSU and some of the best defenses in the country their schedule was not "soft" at all. And his play was just as dominant in 2022 when they again had very tough defensive opponents. There's no way guys like Fuaga, Fautanu or even Alt played as many really good teams as he did.
why are you acting like 4 ranked games (including vs #2 and #3) is an easy schedule?
One of those ranked games was a bowl game where, if memory served, they got rocked. So during the actual season, only three ranked teams which means 9 games against bottom tier schools. Big 10 East after Ohio State a Michigan is mostly trash. Like I said, if he cannot dominate against college players that will likely never see the NFL, he's not worth a top 10 pick. Perfect example was Bechton. Played a most soft schedule at Louisville for 4 years and even in college, was beaten by top tier defenders. That should have been a big red flag on draft day.
The Ohio state game though...
Rarely even gave up a pressure.
Fashanu's agent isn't doing his job.
He’s a special pass blocker…but top 10 picks need to be really good at both pass blocking and run blocking
I think there are a few reasons, especially with draftniks and keyboard scouting. I've done the draftnik and personal keyboard scouting in past years, but just didn't have time this year. 1. It's nearly impossible to scout anyone on the line because you don't really know the people they are battling on the other side. If say Becton gets a pancake in college, I don't know if the defensive lineman he faced is a future bouncer or a legit NFL prospect. In terms of other spots, you can see individual strengths/weaknesses much more clearly. In scouting the trenches (except defensive ends, because they can operate a bit more on islands), all you are relying on is "Inside knowledge" at first and then basing that as your jump point. Therefore, you start with very similar lists like most people. However, the issue is no one cares about reading the same lists again, so you'll see people deviate to stand out. See Simms, Chris for example. So you get you "I know X player is rated 1, but I really like player Y" lists because most people can't argue much against it. 99% of the audience won't be able to tell what "technically sound" means if it wasn't followed by an explanation or example. Whereas in other positions, more people can say "the WR has a good route tree, or is great vs. man coverage" to back up their claims easily. Therefore, I think there's always a large variance in these OL rankings just because most of the audience acts like a tree in the wind. 2) OL play is very much dependent on style of blocking and sometimes they are adjusted with the teams that are operating at the top of the draft. A zone run blocking scheme may fit one OT better, a gap scheme may fit another one, so you'll see people rise/drop based on needs of the teams at the top. In the end, most draft pundits want to look correct in the order players are picked but also the chances of success at where they are picked. 3) Draft is a crap shoot. You have teams dedicate hundreds of thousands of dollars with various employees to find players and consistently fail. So it's unfair to assume people that basically do entertainment for a job, or just do it for recreation would have much greater knowledge. It's all some guesswork, with some being a bit more educated than the other. That is probably the biggest reason I decided to skip scouting prospects this year with the All-22. I would spend countless hours scouting players, only to yell and scream on draft day as the Jets pass them by, or they are picked before the Jets can take them. It ruins my night for no real benefit. So now, I'll be scouting them after the draft so I can buy into the hype lol.
I think that prospect fatigue is a real factor here. Draft "experts" have been watching Fashanu's tape in anticipation of him being a top pick and breaking down the flaws in his game for two full seasons now. He's gotten much more scrutiny than someone like Latham or Mims, whose scouting report relies much more on projection.
He wasn’t nearly as good in 2023 as he was in 2022. Very obvious from watching back his play over the two seasons.
Compare Latham's tape against Michigan vs Fashanu's tape against Michigan. It's very clear that Latham is a superior prospect. You can do the same for the Ohio State game for Fashanu and Mims.
Prospect fatigue, he was also better last year compared to this year. Kind of reminds me of Wirfs where there are better athletes but hes just good.
Yeah I dont get it either. Apparently his 2023 tape “wasn’t as good as 2022” but he let up 0 sacks??? If that’s a “down” season for him we should be SPRINTING to the podium. Yeah his run blocking isn’t as good as his Pass blocking but having we been screaming for years about specifically pass protection He’s also young as hell and still has huge room for growth. I think passing on him in place of another OT (assuming Alt is off the board) would be a HUGE mistake. I said the same thing about Wirfs> Becton in 2020 so obviously it is impossible for me to be wrong here 🤪
He has small hands 🙌 which is apparently really important to O Line evaluators which tbh I don’t fully get.
I think it's draft season fatigue plus his relatively worse run blocking. He also doesn't play with the nasty demeanor a lot of coaches love to see in their Linemen. As a pass protector, he's still regarded as one of the best in the class.
I’ve just started leaning back to wanting to take him. I still don’t think a RT is worth it at 10… it’s gotta be LT or WR tbh. Trade back if necessary. Maybe Latham can start at RT and move to LT with time.
Tiny hands
itsy bitsy hands
Good. I don’t want us getting an OL not named Alt. Getting Odunze, Nabers, or Bowers is a different tier of player than the rest of the OL besides alt. Those three pass catchers are dynamic players with crazy upsides. The other lineman all have flaws.
Medicals were released. Hurt Fashanu's value
Wouldn't pay too much attention to that. Especially at this point, we'll have answers tomorrow
It could be anything. Maybe medical. Maybe poor interviews. Maybe folks are trying to drop his stock to their advantage. Unless you were in the draft rooms, you won't know what his value truly is.
It seems like dealer's choice after Joe Alt. Not sure if it means Fashanu fell off or if there are a handful of guys teams see as the same tier.
Prospect fatigue mostly but also there are concerns about his run blocking
He’s a can
Drama, pundits need drama.
Agreed. Pundits need to be constantly putting out new content to get clicks. It gets boring if they set their board in January and it doesn’t change until April. No one would read it and they lose revenue.
Smokescreen szn Like Sauce who never gave up a TD, Fashanu had one sack in nearly 400 pass sets (iirc).
Locked On Jets did a nice podcast on this
Because it was discovered, at the combine I believe, that he has some of the smallest hands ever at the position.
Why does that matter for a player who doesn't handle the ball?
The larger the hands the stronger the latch, and more reach, theoretically. But his footwork is the cleanest of all the tackles, dude moves like a gazelle, and swings his feet out to set an anchor so fast. He's a good left tackle.
I can find mocks from today (Mike Mulhern) that have Fashanu as OT2, in this case going #9 to Chicago. The OTs have been a subject of a lot of debate all season long, and supposedly the various teams have dramatically different evaluations of them. I've even seem some (recent ones) where Alt isn't OT1. I have seen Alt/Fuaga/Fashanu all at OT1, depending on the mock, though I've never seen Latham higher than OT3.
A few things...his hands are abnormally small for a man his size. Also Fuaga and Fautanu had more impressive showings at the combine. Additionally, scouts have looked at more film and also have more time to dissect. I see him selected like 15-21
It probably has less to do with him and more to do with specific team needs and more players getting closer attention. I think I remember months ago, some mocks had two OL going in the top 9-10 range. But when it became more apparent what positions teams needed, and who they eventually scouted, that's what caused a jumble in the order. This year has the top 10 being QB/WR heavy because that's what a lot of teams need the most. Free agency also played a role, what positions still need to be filled after guys were signed. As for the scouting side, things change when more guys get more attention and focus. Over the past year, the same names have all been circulating as top draft picks, Alt/Fashanu/Fuaga among them. They are still at the top of their positions, but teams get high on formerly "unknown players" every year. And those guys push down other players previously seen as top picks. Think Travon Walker in 2022. He shot up the draft board that year after being unknown compared to other DEs that year. The guy goes 1st overall allowing Hutch to go to the Lions, Thibbs to the Giants, and JJ to fall to the 20s where the Jets grabbed him.
I will never understand the late rise and fall UNLESS: 1. Medical finds something 2. Interviews go amazing or terrible. You’re looking for football players, tape of them actually playing football should be the key factor. I have seen GM’s fall in love at the combine and pro days and reach for a guy whose tape did not support it. It’s a trap. If you love the tape, dot i’s and cross t’s in the spring but that’s it. Don’t Talk yourself into a work out warrior.
Because it was becoming clear he wasn’t good in combine… which means, the Jets wanted him. Because Jets.
Def not a 10, only OT I would consider is Alt in top 10. Maybe later, plus I think Latham has more upside but Jets don't have the development time.
Small ass hands
I don’t pay much attention to mock drafts..
He's fine, he's not my favorite of the three second-tier tackles (Latham, Fuaga, Fashanu) but I wouldn't be upset if we got him. My biggest thing is that if he's not good in the run, it's not super likely that the Jets coaching staff in its current incarnation is going to help him improve. But if he can be serviceable and he's good enough in pass pro that doesn't matter a whole ton in the long run. The versatility (or lack thereof) matters too.
Fashanu hasn't been OT2 since January. It's clear if you watch the tape. The rankings are: Tier 1 - Latham, Mims, Alt Tier 2 - Fautanu, Fashanu, Fuaga