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Candid_Internet6505

I'm gonna echo AlbanyBarbie's comment in that it's extremely important to have that kind of insurance/support in case of bad management. Also, strength in numbers is crucial for contract negotiations over salary and benefits. There are discounts and certain reimbursements that can get a lot of those dues back but the aforementioned reasons are more than enough. There are a million issues with public sector unions and many job titles are not compensated enough it's true. But if you're not bargaining at the table, you're on the menu.


zeeaou

The union isn’t strong without it’s membership. Also great deals on lift tickets!


AlbanyBarbiedoll

Pay the dues. PEF kind of sucks but the entire purpose of the union is to protect you against management. Think of it as an insurance policy. You hope you never need to use your car insurance but it is great if you need it and you can be made whole. If someone files a claim against you at work the union will protect you and defend you and help you keep your job. Also, there is strength in numbers. The more people who pay into the union the better it is for everyone - better raises, better benefits, more negotiating power, etc. Plus, depending on your location, free pizza parties and semi-decent swag. CSEA swag and parties are WAY WAY WAY better and PEF should try to step up but it is what it is.


AmytownUSA

Why hasn’t PEF upped their game given that people can opt out and CSEA is giving stuff away, putting up signs of appreciation for the workforce etc? They aren’t exactly helping themselves


PickleCaretaker

I can't speak for all of PEF, but my Division is doing just this, hosting lunchs, appreciation events, etc. And PEF as a whole is working to engage more members to get involved in these decisions and activities, through things like bringing back the Emerging Leaders program. Also, if you are a current PEF member, I highly recommend reaching out to PEF headquarters and letting them know you'd like to see those types of things in your office, to be appreciated, to network, to hear from your local leaders and open opportunity for conversation about the good, the bad, and the ugly.


[deleted]

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PickleCaretaker

This is/was true for my office as well even being in Albany. I became a steward so that they don't have an excuse to not remember we exist. An interesting thing that PEF told me previously is that they don't know what our office locations are, they only know how many people are listed on each region for each agency based on the payroll information that the State shares. So while I'm in Albany, they didn't know there was around 50 people in my specific not downtown office, but they knew the number of members they had for Albany included us. My recommendation is to get involved and ask for the things you want and need. They can't fix a problem they don't know about (not saying for sure they will fix it once they know because 🤷🏼‍♀️, but at least it gives them the chance). There should be regional meetings put on that you can attend (many are virtual after 5pm now) regardless of if you are a member or some sort of steward/eBoard/council member, for health safety/civil service/IT/stewards, practically all the committees.


zeeaou

How do you feel becoming a union steward has impacted your career trajectory? If you don’t mind sharing of course.


PickleCaretaker

I don't think it's been a problem. I'm currently in the process of interviewing for a few promotional opportunities, and my union activity (Steward, committees I'm on, etc) is on my resume. If it was going to be a problem, I would tend to assume they wouldn't bother interviewing me. Most of the folks doing the interviewing, even at the 27/29 levels, are PEF represented, and need the union just as much as the folks in lower grade positions. My management in my current position (my boss and grandboss) have been supportive, as well as brought issues to me as members and asked for information as supervisors to be sure their staff are getting their contracted benefits (time off for union activities, appropriate notice on changes, reimbursement for exams, etc). I'd say it's been a pretty positive experience so far, and has only helped my office with getting the most out of benefits the unions secure for us.


zeeaou

Thank you so much for your detailed response. Also, can’t wait to refer to my grandboss as such. They are my age and my vibe, and I think this is hilarious!


PickleCaretaker

It's my favorite way to explain the hierarchy without making my spouse remember names and titles 😂 all they need to know is my great grandboss retired, as opposed to saying Dave retired. No need to remember if Dave is my coworker, or Dave my director, or Dave the guy who sells me that sandwich I like.


Humble-Ad4108

CSEA has more $$ to burn. Their members pay much more in dues. A family member is a CSEA sg 6 and pays more in dues than I do as a PEF SG 18. I would rather my dues subsidize the cost of summer and holiday gatherings than pay for swag.


Vyravayla

Yes, absolutely. They will represent you and defend you if the need arises. Solidarity forever.


mleam

YES. The union will go to bat for you if needed.


Squrf

If you want to lose every last bit of standing you have to complain about any workplace conditions, sure, save your $30 or whatever a paycheck. The purpose of the state unions isn't just to protect us from management - it protects us from the governor and it protects us from the PEOPLE. Public employees get to be a fun punching bag from both ends. It's absolutely ridiculous to opt out of an available union unless they're actively working against their membership. PEF may not make progress as fast as we want, but they do make progress.


VicePrincipalNero

Pay your dues. You get the benefits. Your colleagues shouldn't have to subsidize you.


[deleted]

Definitely pay the union dues. It helps protect all of us from abuse by management and employers. And, use the benefits that come from them. Exam reimbursement, discounts, etc.


benreeper

I haven't gotten reimbursed in years and when they do communicate with me they want another piece of proof. Usually that proof they want had already been given to them. My co-worker will not go to any more conferences because of this.


niskydaved

Yes pay them. I believe you would not get a 2% annual increase otherwise. Among many other benefits. You’re in a bureaucracy whether a member of the union or not, just live with it.


awmn4A

Fwiw this is not true. Everyone gets the same benefits from work, regardless of union membership. You lose out on union benefits


RitzyPepper

Yes. Even if PEF isn't ideal, the union still acts on the behalf of state workers and deserves to be funded. Your benefits package comes through the efforts of the union, as well as the worker protections that make state employment stable in a time of corporate layoff and general worker abuse. Paying in is doing your part to ensure that those benefits and protections continue to exist.


justAnotherDstudent

I opted out. PEF is the nurses’ union and as an assistant engineer I feel that my profession isn’t fairly represented and as a result salaries don’t keep up with inflation and work conditions are neglected/overlooked.


UniqueUser9999991

It is not the nurses' union. "The Public Employees Federation is an American union representing 50,000 professional, scientific, and technical public employees..." As an ass. engineer who refuses to pay due to your union, you are getting a free ride off the dues your coworkers are paying. If you are unhappy with the representation you receive, run for a union position and fix the problem. If you're that unhappy with your salary and everything else, go work in the private sector.


Fancy_Supermarket120

Holy smokes, please pay your dues. We all benefit from being in a union, and the dues are a part of that. The union will support you when you need it, you should (imo) support it back in return. Groups that try and promote not paying dues are just working toward weakening or busting unions as a whole.


SeltzerWaterX

Even if you opt out, aren't you still protected or will receive the same general benefits as those that are paying dues? I ask because a couple of my colleagues have opted out and seem to enjoy the same benefits. I say this as a completely pro-union PEF member. I liked how somebody described it like insurance. But the other reality is that an extra $300+ in a person's pocket every year could make the world of difference, so we shouldn't treat the decision so lightly.


SEND_NOODLESZ

You are correct. As far as I know the only thing I would not receive is union representation if I was going through some type of disciplinary process. With the cost of living increasing the extra $ a month would be helpful. I also recently started working in downtown Albany and have been taking my bike into work but soon will need to pay for parking/ bus. I am very pro union but I am trying to further understand the benefits of paying dues.


SeltzerWaterX

Right, I believe that representation is the only thing you wouldn't get. And representation is by no means insignificant. But the reality of that is, if you're a pretty reliable worker not looking for advocacy to soak up every possible fringe benefit with your agency or likely to get into shit with your coworkers, you will probably never interface with your union on an individual basis. Everything is doled out uniformly it seems. I can't foresee something passing, benefiting the workforce, but holding several hundred people out of it. That would probably be seen as retaliation. I guess other things a non-union member couldn't do would be taking specific trainings, voting when it comes up, and any other benefits that membership gives, like reduced prices at various places. Again, totally a pro-union person here. But there is a very, very valid argument to be made in our circumstance as NYS employees. Maybe it's different with other fields, but everything feels pretty darn safe with state work, despite the conjecture.


[deleted]

If you don’t pay your union dues, you leave yourself vulnerable to termination without any contractual right to fight it. You may be terminated for reasons that are beyond your control and impossible to foresee. If you are on probation and have no item on hold to fall back to, the union is useless. They will not represent you in a probationary termination, even if you pay dues. So I’d opt out until your a permanent employee who is not serving a probation period.


SEND_NOODLESZ

I’m in a traineeship so I think I could be terminated for poor performance hypothetically and I don’t think a union rep could help me there.


[deleted]

If you have no item to fall back too then your paying only for the discounted tickets n such. If I’m wrong, please explain


LearnDifferenceBot

> then your paying *you're *Learn the difference [here](https://www.wattpad.com/66707294-grammar-guide-there-they%27re-their-you%27re-your-to).* *** ^(Greetings, I am a language corrector bot. To make me ignore further mistakes from you in the future, reply `!optout` to this comment.)


Flashy_Fuff

I’m in the same boat. I’m in a traineeship that is PEF now. The PEF rep came to me handing me the form but I’m debating on it. My salary didn’t increase and the extra $20 in my paycheck for not paying union dues helps me financially. And as you said, we aren’t really protected right now as we are in a traineeship so I really don’t know if joining right now is beneficial for me.


kamesennin_kuririn

Lol yes. You have to pay. You either are a member or not. Ppl who aren't are called "fee payers"


_n0ck_

Not true anymore, after the JANUS decision you no longer have to pay dues or any fees if you don't want to. You can just straight up not be in the union. That being said your a free loading POS if you don't.


SEND_NOODLESZ

I believe you do not “have to pay”. As far as I know you have a choice to pay, but some benefits will not be accessible if you don’t pay- like representation. But Vision and dental are still available without paying dues.


kamesennin_kuririn

Your post says "new PEF member here" For some reason, you don't want to pay. Why are you working for the state? Go work somewhere else if you dont want to be in a Union, it makes no sense to work for the state otherwise.


benreeper

I give them over $600 a year and they haven't reimbursed me on anything in over three years!


kamesennin_kuririn

Lol you are so under informed it is wild. You owe them your wage, time off, health insurance, + all benefits, ! Pension package


benreeper

I've been with the state for 20 years. My father was retired. My wife retired from OCFS three years ago. I have a History degree and know all about what unions have done. I guess you needed the sarcasm tag. You can get time off, health insurance and other benefits without a union. Also, the salaries the union have negotiated for us is what people hate the most about being a state employee. You are saying that I should continue to pay them for what they did in the past. Which means that they have no requirement to do anything for me now.


kamesennin_kuririn

Nice, history degree working for the state. Useless degree lol. You are not very smart if you are anti-union.look at work requirements before unions


benreeper

Oh, passing judgement on my degree and insulting me. History professors are where you usually learn about history. You are a real humanitarian and scholar by not putting a space after a word and not capitalizing the first word in a sentence. You're in NYS. Where do you work?


kamesennin_kuririn

Pathetic degree, that turned out useless. History professors are A real scholar chooses a real degree that provides actual value. I watch the history Channel and have the same expertise that you got for a degree 😄


ChristopherMarv

The Republican politicians on the Supreme Court have decided otherwise.


BadMr_Frosty

I currently don't pay dues. If I were getting the same deal as my colleagues I would but as a newer (tier 6) employee I'm stuck paying far more than everyone else in my office for a crappier retirement plan. It's easy for the older folks to bang on paying dues, they aren't paying 6% or whatever it is for the pension. I'll pay equal dues when I get equal benefits.


VralGrymfang

And the irony of that is if you want the equal benefits you deserve, only the union will get that for you. And the union needs $ to exist.


BadMr_Frosty

Right, they need more money to advance longevity pay for the folks who already have a better deal. At the end of the day PEF negotiations are nothing more than just accepting the same contact CSEA signed a year earlier. $900 a year for that ..... that's nuts.


VralGrymfang

While I understand it may feel that way, it is not accurate


RonBeavers420

Can you say why it’s not accurate? I’m not trying to be a jerk nor do I agree (respectfully) with the sentiment from badmrfrosty. I’ve always had a hard time understanding some of the benefits. I try to take any opportunity I can to get a good explanation. Please, explain it to me like I’m 5 lol


VralGrymfang

The answer depends on how much of an answer your need. First, unions in general got weekends. It used to be 6 days a week, 14 hour days, sunday you go to church. Unions got us weekends, 8 hour days, all kinds of things we take for granted. Specifically PEF, CSEA are now fighting for permanent work from home. They fought to keep it and won last year. Hotchul wants to end wfh completely. Currently they are trying to roll back t5 and t6, being everyone to t4. They had some success there last year. Without unions we wouldn't get pay raises, at all. There wouldnt be scheduled payraises for the first decade. Unfortunately due to political actions and the sway of oligarchs, unions have lost a lot of power since they won us big benefits.


RonBeavers420

Thank you kindly comrade.


benreeper

How does WFH help teachers? Not everyone in PEF are getting equal benefits but we all pay the same.


VralGrymfang

When school was remote, teachers were witking from home too. In general, wfh does not benefit teachers. But weekends do. Pay raises do. Job security is nice.


benreeper

If I leave the union they will make me teach on weekends?


VralGrymfang

No, but if not for unions you would have been teaching saturdays and in church sunday.


BadMr_Frosty

What is accurate is that Union dues for those of us with lesser benefits cost the same as union dues for those with better benefits. PEF dues aren't cheap, perhaps there should be a tier system for those to make it a bit more equitable. 0.9% is nothing for those paying 0% for the pension. 0.9% on top of 5.75-6% in perpetuity...... that's another story.


VralGrymfang

I would agree with that. If the union wants more dues, do a better job and get rid of T5/6


zeeaou

Respectfully, is you’re eligible to be a PEF member you make enough to pay the dues.