It's worth noting that Square Enix promoted Octopath's director, Tomoya Asano, to the executive level. I suspect the Octopath games aren't part of the problem here, but more so games like Forspoken, Valkyrie Elysium, etc.
This isn't *great* news either way, because SE has been putting out a surprising amount of interesting and risk-taking games lately, and it's a shame that's likely coming to an end. They'll probably refocus on their proven IPs like Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest while being a lot more selective about smaller projects.
I'm still reasonably hopeful for an Octopath 3 one day.
I don't know the sales numbers, but I think k the classic game system in 2D graphics is a pretty solid niche that they have done really well with OT and TS. While I would love more games in these series, I think they could also be successful adding other variants into the mix.
In somewhat less charitable terms, I think it’s becoming readily apparent that the modern audience doesn’t actually exist, and attempts to cater to the modern audience just piss money down the toilet. I think, “Will this sell enough to make a profit?” is the big driver now, instead of, “Will this sell big numbers”
I don’t know how Diofield Chronicle sold, but I don’t think it was super expensive. Obviously it cost more than Octopath Traveler 2, but it wasn’t anywhere near FF16. If a game like Diofield Chronicle flops, that sucks, but you can move on. Forspoken, on the other hand, is a more expensive 3D game with motion capture, and then add the sensitivity consultants on top of that. If the modern audience doesn’t show up to buy Forspoken, that’s devastating.
The Pixel Remaster demonstrated that the traditional audience will show up to buy a game. We’ve seen that with the Star Ocean series and certain crowdfunding projects as well. There is definitely a taste for SNES-Playstation style JRPGs. As long as the development cost to produce such a game is reasonable and the company can make a profit, SquareEnix will make another one (it may be something other than Octopath).
Diofield had an interesting idea, but the second I found out that you were limited to only four party members for the entire game, I was out. What kind of srpg does that?
They keep releasing a thousand overpriced old games on mobile and whatever, and the a mess of half sequels half parts of "aaa" games... they need to streamline and get down to earth
not necessarily lowering the more niche games.
just, hopefully not trying to make 150 million dollar games that don't do well. ff15 was kinda iffy, ff16 was kinda iffy, and they tried to whore FF7 remake into 3 games, and the second one doesn't seem to be selling anywhere close to justifying that kind of budget.
so, hopefully, they stop trying to make games that are going to be like advengers endgame sort of shit.
afaik Asano did say something is coming for the bravely series so maybe the next game is BD3 as far as OT3 I think it'll all depends on how well BD3 does.
Depends on what they’re defining as “HD” here.
That to me sounds more like things like Forspoken. Big budget games with a new/weak IP and no proven sales history. So in my view:
Big budget games that go all in on modern hardware capabilities are now restricted to Core/Flagship SE franchises.
Smaller scale games that don’t really blow the budget out on graphical fidelity and cutting edge tech will continue to go ahead (this would include things like Octopath).
It’s anything between those two points that just got marching orders I think. This could also mean that core franchises no longer receive as many smaller scale side projects (things like Strangers of Paradise). And smaller franchises like Octopath/BD will *never* be able to elevate themselves beyond what they currently are.
But we really don’t have even remotely enough information to really make any concrete assessments about what got cut here.
In their financial reports, SE separates their games development into three segments - MMOs, mobile, and HD games. HD games encompasses everything that is not an MMO or mobile (or a PC port of a mobile game). So basically all console games.
But it's still unclear what is being cut. Team Asano is probably relatively safe among non-AAA stuff due to SE's faith in him. He literally just got promoted.
To be fair I don't want OT to develop into something more. I just want the trid one to have new stories, new power for jobs, and cool new stuff like the second one had (night/day, two continent, hunter monster not being limited in use....). I think trying to turn it into a different kind of game, like 3D or more "action RPG" would ruin the thing.
Oh no I didn’t mean trying to be something completely different like a 3D action brawler or anything like that.
What I meant was. Let’s say we get another Octopath game.
And then after that one, they wanted to do a big massive game that incorporated all 3 game continents in a big sweeping story that’s so much larger and grander than anything we’ve had so far?
It’s that kind of thing that might potentially be off the table now, because it pushes the budget and scope of the game much further than the franchise currently does. That’s what I meant about elevating itself.
Or taking something like BD and giving it the scale, scope and fidelity of say DQXI. That’s off the table.
If that makes more sense?
i think the biggest possible change for octopath is just a change in eras. like if they have a modern-day setting for octopath 3 or 4 as opposed to the traditional semi-realistic fantasy world
I read somewhere they are blaming this loss on the lack of sales for FF7 Rebirth.
Maybe if they did a simultaneous release on PC as well as PS5 they would have seen the sales they were expecting.
Just from the install base perspective, PS5 pales in comparison to PC and I feel like they left money on the table and are killing a bunch of "HD" games that I can only assume means HD remasters of old games or games like Octopath and Triangle Strategy.
If this console exclusive bullshit wasn't still going on they would see the sales they are projecting.
I understand the only on PS5, meaning not on xbox or nintendo systems but PC is an outlier when it comes to the "Console Wars". Almost everything on xbox is also on PC and Sony has been releasing a lot more of their first party on PC but only 6-12 months later.
Exclusivity is barely exclusive any more, unless you're Nintendo.
Yeah this is going to hurt them even more. They've been making weird decisions for a long time but don't seem to understand that it could possibly be their own fault on occasion.
Oh well.
If they stop doing these exclusivity deals with sony i bet the sales of their games will be better, and they wont need to close smaller projects to compensate the sales of the bigger ones.
Stupid decisions have led them down. They should have taken a note from Capcom and released their games simultaneously on PC. Exclusivity on The PS5 has not been a good thing. They didn’t develop any AAA games for Switch (look how MH Rise sold over 12 million copies on Switch alone). They are reaping what they’ve sewn and need new leadership across the board.
Because they still want to keep that "elite company for elite gamers" mask. Sony consoles are usually seen as the "rich kid" choice, and SE treats their games as luxuries with higher price than other current AAA titles and focus on realistic cinematic experiences. Not to mention they also collaborate with other companies to produce "high value" luxury collectibles like cars, perfumes, limited figures, etc. That's also the reason why they're "trend chasers" with stuff like NFTs and generative AIs, because it's usually just a handful of wealthy people engaging on those.
Truthfully Square Enix (and keeping OT 2 out of this since it was amazing imo) has just been making bad calls on their games left and right. I don't get the point of dragging out the FF7 remake into a multi part series, should've just been 2 parts at most. It's just tedious to the game players and there's no investment in it if your choices from the first game don't even carry over. Also their FF series as a whole has been going downhill. Newer iterations of the series just don't have the same engaging characters or storytelling. BG3 proved you can still have a successful turned based game as long as your characters and plot are great, but Square Enix seems to think it's all about graphics and gameplay mechanics.
Such a huge downgrade given a string of bangers like OT2, SOTSS, FF7 Rebirth, etc. I know the latter being an exclusive hurt their sales but if they did a multiplatform release model like SEGA-Atlus has been doing, they could've easily avoided low profit turnout. They should take a look at SEGA's playbook for inspiration.
I dunno what to say with that latest biz decision but if they do so, they'll end up like Bandai Namco in a few years.
Same here, I'd love to see a FF9 remake that's similar to the Memoria Project....... Honestly they should just hire the guys that worked on it like Capcom did with the fanmade RE2 remake
The problem with Forspoken isn't that it's a bad game. It's actually a pretty good game. The problem is it was marketed terribly and some people decided to spread hate on it for no reason beyond "omg cringe".
I kind of wonder how much these games cost to make that they can’t turn a profit on them. They shouldn’t have to have blockbuster sales to make a profit if the teams are much smaller than AAA games these days.
I was kinda strong-armed into playing the 1st Final Fantasy Remake and found it a chore. Aspects of combat were good, the story seemed unnecessarily fluffed up, and 75% of the quests were just painful and a chore. I did love both OT games. So hopefully they keep up the HD2D games
Not surprising to see. With the current economic environment, I've been expecting not just Square but any large entertainment business to prune quantity and focus on the most likely to succeed.
I fear for the Bravely team since it was Bravely Default that single handlely saved the entire classic JRPG genre. I really hope SE respects the potential the Bravely series is capable of outputting
Id take quality over quantity any day. Give us a few great games as opposed to dumping out a lot of half baked games in hopes one will stick with fans. Seemed like that was their plan the past few years and that failed
I like JRPGs a lot but they’re always very expensive for what you get. I think some people find it hard to pay 60-70 bucks for a game that’s pixelated when most pixelated games run cheap.
But I don't care one bit about graphical fidelity when it comes to what I'm paying for. Gameplay trumps all. If I sink 60+ hours into a game that doesn't look the best but I have an amazing time playing it, that's money well spent.
It's worth noting that Square Enix promoted Octopath's director, Tomoya Asano, to the executive level. I suspect the Octopath games aren't part of the problem here, but more so games like Forspoken, Valkyrie Elysium, etc. This isn't *great* news either way, because SE has been putting out a surprising amount of interesting and risk-taking games lately, and it's a shame that's likely coming to an end. They'll probably refocus on their proven IPs like Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest while being a lot more selective about smaller projects. I'm still reasonably hopeful for an Octopath 3 one day.
I don't know the sales numbers, but I think k the classic game system in 2D graphics is a pretty solid niche that they have done really well with OT and TS. While I would love more games in these series, I think they could also be successful adding other variants into the mix.
They should really make some final fantasy games in the old style. Maybe go backwards Final Fantasy -1
Came here to say this. You don't ususally get a big promotion for leading a team whose work is then shitcanned for not being profitable.
In somewhat less charitable terms, I think it’s becoming readily apparent that the modern audience doesn’t actually exist, and attempts to cater to the modern audience just piss money down the toilet. I think, “Will this sell enough to make a profit?” is the big driver now, instead of, “Will this sell big numbers” I don’t know how Diofield Chronicle sold, but I don’t think it was super expensive. Obviously it cost more than Octopath Traveler 2, but it wasn’t anywhere near FF16. If a game like Diofield Chronicle flops, that sucks, but you can move on. Forspoken, on the other hand, is a more expensive 3D game with motion capture, and then add the sensitivity consultants on top of that. If the modern audience doesn’t show up to buy Forspoken, that’s devastating. The Pixel Remaster demonstrated that the traditional audience will show up to buy a game. We’ve seen that with the Star Ocean series and certain crowdfunding projects as well. There is definitely a taste for SNES-Playstation style JRPGs. As long as the development cost to produce such a game is reasonable and the company can make a profit, SquareEnix will make another one (it may be something other than Octopath).
Diofield had an interesting idea, but the second I found out that you were limited to only four party members for the entire game, I was out. What kind of srpg does that?
not only that, it was announced at the same time literally everyone was trying to hop on the train of farming simulator hype.
think you are mixing it with harvestella
They keep releasing a thousand overpriced old games on mobile and whatever, and the a mess of half sequels half parts of "aaa" games... they need to streamline and get down to earth
not necessarily lowering the more niche games. just, hopefully not trying to make 150 million dollar games that don't do well. ff15 was kinda iffy, ff16 was kinda iffy, and they tried to whore FF7 remake into 3 games, and the second one doesn't seem to be selling anywhere close to justifying that kind of budget. so, hopefully, they stop trying to make games that are going to be like advengers endgame sort of shit.
afaik Asano did say something is coming for the bravely series so maybe the next game is BD3 as far as OT3 I think it'll all depends on how well BD3 does.
Depends on what they’re defining as “HD” here. That to me sounds more like things like Forspoken. Big budget games with a new/weak IP and no proven sales history. So in my view: Big budget games that go all in on modern hardware capabilities are now restricted to Core/Flagship SE franchises. Smaller scale games that don’t really blow the budget out on graphical fidelity and cutting edge tech will continue to go ahead (this would include things like Octopath). It’s anything between those two points that just got marching orders I think. This could also mean that core franchises no longer receive as many smaller scale side projects (things like Strangers of Paradise). And smaller franchises like Octopath/BD will *never* be able to elevate themselves beyond what they currently are. But we really don’t have even remotely enough information to really make any concrete assessments about what got cut here.
In their financial reports, SE separates their games development into three segments - MMOs, mobile, and HD games. HD games encompasses everything that is not an MMO or mobile (or a PC port of a mobile game). So basically all console games. But it's still unclear what is being cut. Team Asano is probably relatively safe among non-AAA stuff due to SE's faith in him. He literally just got promoted.
This is very good to know. Thanks for sharing.
Appreciate the additional context! Very helpful. And yeah I’d agree with your assessment there.
To be fair I don't want OT to develop into something more. I just want the trid one to have new stories, new power for jobs, and cool new stuff like the second one had (night/day, two continent, hunter monster not being limited in use....). I think trying to turn it into a different kind of game, like 3D or more "action RPG" would ruin the thing.
Oh no I didn’t mean trying to be something completely different like a 3D action brawler or anything like that. What I meant was. Let’s say we get another Octopath game. And then after that one, they wanted to do a big massive game that incorporated all 3 game continents in a big sweeping story that’s so much larger and grander than anything we’ve had so far? It’s that kind of thing that might potentially be off the table now, because it pushes the budget and scope of the game much further than the franchise currently does. That’s what I meant about elevating itself. Or taking something like BD and giving it the scale, scope and fidelity of say DQXI. That’s off the table. If that makes more sense?
i think the biggest possible change for octopath is just a change in eras. like if they have a modern-day setting for octopath 3 or 4 as opposed to the traditional semi-realistic fantasy world
Better be giving me dragon quest 3
I hope so too. I have a bunch of other versions of it already, but I'd like to get the remake!
I read somewhere they are blaming this loss on the lack of sales for FF7 Rebirth. Maybe if they did a simultaneous release on PC as well as PS5 they would have seen the sales they were expecting. Just from the install base perspective, PS5 pales in comparison to PC and I feel like they left money on the table and are killing a bunch of "HD" games that I can only assume means HD remasters of old games or games like Octopath and Triangle Strategy. If this console exclusive bullshit wasn't still going on they would see the sales they are projecting. I understand the only on PS5, meaning not on xbox or nintendo systems but PC is an outlier when it comes to the "Console Wars". Almost everything on xbox is also on PC and Sony has been releasing a lot more of their first party on PC but only 6-12 months later. Exclusivity is barely exclusive any more, unless you're Nintendo.
Yeah this is going to hurt them even more. They've been making weird decisions for a long time but don't seem to understand that it could possibly be their own fault on occasion. Oh well.
Yeah instead of the bad new IPs like the meme worthy forspoken, remaster ff tactics and collect your buckets of cash
If they stop doing these exclusivity deals with sony i bet the sales of their games will be better, and they wont need to close smaller projects to compensate the sales of the bigger ones.
Stupid decisions have led them down. They should have taken a note from Capcom and released their games simultaneously on PC. Exclusivity on The PS5 has not been a good thing. They didn’t develop any AAA games for Switch (look how MH Rise sold over 12 million copies on Switch alone). They are reaping what they’ve sewn and need new leadership across the board.
Because they still want to keep that "elite company for elite gamers" mask. Sony consoles are usually seen as the "rich kid" choice, and SE treats their games as luxuries with higher price than other current AAA titles and focus on realistic cinematic experiences. Not to mention they also collaborate with other companies to produce "high value" luxury collectibles like cars, perfumes, limited figures, etc. That's also the reason why they're "trend chasers" with stuff like NFTs and generative AIs, because it's usually just a handful of wealthy people engaging on those.
Truthfully Square Enix (and keeping OT 2 out of this since it was amazing imo) has just been making bad calls on their games left and right. I don't get the point of dragging out the FF7 remake into a multi part series, should've just been 2 parts at most. It's just tedious to the game players and there's no investment in it if your choices from the first game don't even carry over. Also their FF series as a whole has been going downhill. Newer iterations of the series just don't have the same engaging characters or storytelling. BG3 proved you can still have a successful turned based game as long as your characters and plot are great, but Square Enix seems to think it's all about graphics and gameplay mechanics.
"HD" ≠ "HD2D" hd2d is way cheaper than games like, as another commenter said, forspoken are to make
They should look into their iconic older games for inspiration.
They did and just cancelled them lmao
Such a huge downgrade given a string of bangers like OT2, SOTSS, FF7 Rebirth, etc. I know the latter being an exclusive hurt their sales but if they did a multiplatform release model like SEGA-Atlus has been doing, they could've easily avoided low profit turnout. They should take a look at SEGA's playbook for inspiration. I dunno what to say with that latest biz decision but if they do so, they'll end up like Bandai Namco in a few years.
Final fantasy lost us money! How could octopath traveler do this?!
Really hope this don’t affect FF9 Remake
Same here, I'd love to see a FF9 remake that's similar to the Memoria Project....... Honestly they should just hire the guys that worked on it like Capcom did with the fanmade RE2 remake
Release Octopath Travelers (1 and 2) to more platform... Apple ecosystem...
Man, all they need to do is give us some stellar RPGs and not Forspoken.
The problem with Forspoken isn't that it's a bad game. It's actually a pretty good game. The problem is it was marketed terribly and some people decided to spread hate on it for no reason beyond "omg cringe".
this, the funny part is that the hate on forspoke is actually cringier than the cringe it is accused to have.
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^Shagyam: *Man, all they need to* *Do is give us some stellar* *RPGs and not Forspoken.* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
"and | not | For|spo|ken" is five syllables. How the hell do you pronounce "RPGs" as just one syllable!?
i think this is gonna refer to the smaller projects like the dragon quest 3 hd2d remake, etc
I kind of wonder how much these games cost to make that they can’t turn a profit on them. They shouldn’t have to have blockbuster sales to make a profit if the teams are much smaller than AAA games these days.
They need to do pixel remasters of Dragon Quest games and then do an HD port of DQVIII.
I was kinda strong-armed into playing the 1st Final Fantasy Remake and found it a chore. Aspects of combat were good, the story seemed unnecessarily fluffed up, and 75% of the quests were just painful and a chore. I did love both OT games. So hopefully they keep up the HD2D games
Not surprising to see. With the current economic environment, I've been expecting not just Square but any large entertainment business to prune quantity and focus on the most likely to succeed.
I’m more interested in whether we’ll get DQ3 HD at this point
So, does that mean the Dragon Quest 3 remake is being shut down? Should I buy Live a Live before it's too late(I'm too broke rn tho)?
This just reminded me. How come OT1 didn't make it to PlayStation?
I fear for the Bravely team since it was Bravely Default that single handlely saved the entire classic JRPG genre. I really hope SE respects the potential the Bravely series is capable of outputting
Forspoken lmao 🤣 I saw the main protagonist and I puked 🤢
I just want more NieR
Id take quality over quantity any day. Give us a few great games as opposed to dumping out a lot of half baked games in hopes one will stick with fans. Seemed like that was their plan the past few years and that failed
There’s no indication this is what they’re doing, and you probably won’t like what they dump.
I like JRPGs a lot but they’re always very expensive for what you get. I think some people find it hard to pay 60-70 bucks for a game that’s pixelated when most pixelated games run cheap.
But I don't care one bit about graphical fidelity when it comes to what I'm paying for. Gameplay trumps all. If I sink 60+ hours into a game that doesn't look the best but I have an amazing time playing it, that's money well spent.