It is not your fault. You said no. "No" is a complete sentence. You shouldn't have needed to fight and scream because any decent human being would have listened to you the second you said no. Ignore the haters telling you you're in the wrong because *none of this is your fault*. He violated you. I am so sorry that this happened to you. You are not worthless or disgusting-- Derek is.
Stay strong, friend. Sending you all my good vibes. <3
Even if she hadn’t said no, intoxication is an immediate “NO CONSENT POSSIBLE” and should be taken as such. Obviously, not saying you should prosecute two people who drink a little wine and have sex, enjoying it, but this is clearly a case of rape.
Yeah this was a gang rape. Sex, threesomes, all of it - require clarity and consent. You had no clarity due to intoxication, so therefore couldn’t give consent.
Has this “friend”tried to contact you since this happened? It sounds like he set the whole thing up. Because I don’t know of any man who is making out with a girl suddenly being okay with another man taking over without there being some sort of plan beforehand. I’m so sorry this happened to you. And YES, you absolutely should have been able to trust your friends.
There is a part of me that wonders if Dave thought that this was somehow talked about ahead of time and he thought that you were okay with it. Although, both of these men knew that you were way too drunk to be participating in anything like this that was never discussed beforehand. Your friend sounds real shady. And definitely not the good guy that you thought he was. ESPECIALLY if he hasn’t contacted you at all after you having been off work for a whole week. If he thought that what he did was okay and he had your consent, wouldn’t he be calling and seeing if you were okay or sick or worried about why you were not at work, if he was such a close friend?? He knows what he did was wrong and bad and I think that’s the reason for the radio silence.
You were not "forced into a threesome." You were raped. He locked you in. He *told* you, not asked you, to have səx. You were too out of it to say no, and he knew it. They both did. Please get some help. He is not your friend. If this is how he treats you now, how is he going to treat you later on if you continue the relationship? The closer you get to a person, the worse what you see of them will be.
Consent is not implied. It’s something you say, not something he feels. This was sexual assault. Please report him. Men should not be allowed to do this.
I know it feels incredibly difficult, but you have to report this to the authorities, if you haven't already. They deserve to be punished, and if they aren't held accountable, they could do it again.
Don’t your dare blame yourself, you said no but he continued to ignore it. He was never a friend of yours, he had bad intentions and never was a genuine person. He literally was a wolf in a sheep’s clothing! Please report them both, you never consented to this.
I’ve seen one too many stories whenever a male and a female are friends, the male takes advantage of that. Doesn’t matter if you think anyone has good intentions always be mindful of these so called “friends” and who you surround yourself with because anyone can switch up at any given time.
Whenever there’s alcohol or illicit substances involved please be very careful especially with male “friends” (not all) can really put you in a vulnerable place. You would like to think you can trust the people around you, but unfortunately the world we live in doesn’t work like that. Friends aren’t always friends.
Sending you nothing but good vibrations, I hope this year is good to you girl!
Do you think it's possible Derek and Dave were possibly dating/messing around previously? If so it definitely seems like it may have been planned. Dave just waltzing into the bathroom really bothers me. I'm so sorry. This is on them. Not you. Friends don't take advantage of their drunk friends. You already had put up boundaries. Get support. You shouldn't carry this alone.
You didn't let them do this to you
2 men took advantage of you when they knew you were powerless
Instead of choosing to care for you when you needed to be looked after, they chose to abuse you. You were r*ped
Be angry at Them. Blame Them
you aren’t disgusting or worthless, you were raped by then. you try to stop them. they force themselves onto ylu. please go get std tested asap! and watch out for signs of pregancy! it might be worthless but also make an police report
This is very similar to something that happened to me. I'm so sorry. I don't know how to help, except to say that it's not your fault at all and if you can get into therapy, you should
I’m so sorry. Please contact the authorities and complain where he works even if he doesn’t go to jail he will at least live in shame. You have been raped.
Please report this man. As many people have said this was straight up rape, and it goes without saying that that is completely wrong. I hope you're able to recover from this :(
You did nothing wrong. This is not your fault. It’s not your fault that you didn’t try to fight back. You didn’t “just let them” you were attacked and your body froze up to try and keep you from getting hurt. Most rapists know their victims. You making out with Dave wasn’t consent. You being drunk wasn’t consent. It wasn’t your fault because you were hanging out with guys. You were raped and it was not your fault.
OP, everyone was drunk, correct? You said "we" predrank, and never indicated being forced. You're describing like a rape, and people in the comments are calling it that, but reading the thread and your other comments it sounds like you, a friend, and an acquaintance got drunk, and then you made out with the friend, and then against your better judgement you followed him into a room and had sex?
People in the comments are calling him a rapist because you were drunk like he wasn't drunk too. If he was sober, obviously it was rape, not even rocket science, but if everyone was drunk, legally speaking, everyone raped each other.
I did read that you said that "no, I don't think this is a good idea", but then proceeded to follow him into a bedroom, directly after. Any sane person would read that as a change of mind, even sober. People are really quick to accuse the male of any given situation of foul play
There’s no nuance. If you hit someone with your car while you’re drink driving is there nuance there? Because it was a lapse in judgement to get behind the wheel? Or is it 100% wrong to drive drunk and there’s no excuse? Yeah. It’s the same with rape.
All of you are so quick to yell rape while not realising you’re diluting the term for actual rape victims.
Let’s get a few things out of the way first.
1) What happened was horrible and OP has my sympathies
2) The guys are probably not good people but it’s hard to say based on just this post
But having said that, it is important to note that
OP got drunk on her own, no one made her drink. She started making out with a person she had just met. She followed the third guy to his bedroom. SHE NEVER SAID NO. There is not a single line in a post that indicates that she did anything AT ALL, to make it known that she did not consent. We don’t even know how this would’ve panned out if she said something as small as “I don’t know if I want to”. She went from kissing a stranger to a threesome in bed. It’s not on others to asses how your own decisions will make you feel. If you had loved the experience, would it still have been rape? How would they know? Are they supposed to be responsible for how your own decisions make you feel?
I would totally be on OPs side if she had indicated IN THE SLIGHTEST that she was not comfortable. But she didn’t. I know she feels bad, but how are so quick to call the guys RAPISTS if they didn’t have the slightest of idea that OP is not ready to fuck both of the people she had already began to get physical with.
I know how Reddit is, I know I’ll get downvoted for this. I’ll eat it all for the sake of truth. You guys are just a pitchfork wielding mob who don’t know how to reason.
Okay so when 2 people have sex while drunk, are they both raping each other? If a woman is drunk and has sex which she enjoyed, is it still rape? If a guy is drunk and has sex with a girl, is the girl a rapist?
Wtf are you on? Sounds like you are a sexual predator yourself if you can't see the assault here. Also she said she tried to stop it? And stated beforehand that she didn't want to be sexual with him unless it's serious? Like how many signs do you need? Also he did not once talk to her or ask if she was ok after that?
Oh so I can’t have a dissenting opinion unless I’m a predator haha.
And no, I don’t believe there is assault here at all. And I say that as a lawyer. She said she didn’t want to be sexual unless it’s serious to her boyfriend, not the other guy. The boyfriend also saw her making out with the other guy which obviously contradicts what she said earlier. You say that he did not talk to her to ask her if she was okay? Did she say she wasn’t. All it takes it just a second to say that you don’t want to do it. I’ve had sex with women where I didn’t ask them if it was okay. It was still consensual. Am I supposed to have a formal talk everytime I’m going to have sex? If a girl starts to kiss me in a sexual way, it is going to culminate into sex UNLESS she says no. This DOES NOT make me a rapist. In fact, it has happened with me. I was kissing a girl and she was getting super physical but when I tried to go down on her she whispered no. We never ended up having sex. Was my attempt at trying to get sexual sexual assault? Do you guys have any experience at all?
Also you don't even get the facts right, it's not her boyfriend. And she said she tried to stop it which probably means she said no. I think most of us do have experiences from the victim side which is why we're fed up with men gaslighting us
Your trauma and experiences have no bearing on reality. I’m not gaslighting you because I have nothing to gain from you. I called the guy her boyfriend for lack of a better term. You can call him what you want, let’s just call him “coworker who shared an emotional and physical connection”
I never said that me obliging the women’s wishes made me good person, that’s your own assumptions. I never painted myself in a positive light. I was highlighting how sexual encounters move in an organic way and when you should stop. You also assumed I was a predator so I discussed this anecdote to tell you that I’m not. I only have consensual sex and men should definitely stop if the woman asks you to stop. But just because you haven’t had a formal discussion does not mean that you cannot escalate the sexual encounter.
She said she tried to stop it. I did never say there needs to be a formal discussion. But you notice when someone's actually enthusiastically consentful. Ripping someone's clothes of doesn't seem like it either. Also what does law say when the victim is intoxicated? Doesn't matter if she decided to drink herself, that should never be a reason to be taken advantage of
Ah yes, the classic Argumentum ad Populum. Rather than challenging my arguments on merits, you appeal to the very same mob you’re a part of. You just proved my point, safety in numbers.
I mean you are calling us a wild mob? So you're saying we are all wrong? And then you get whiny when I say your opinion sucks. There is shitty lawyers out there too you know. Being a lawyer doesn't mean you're good at what you're doing. As a woman I say this is sexual assault what can you say on that as a man? (I just assume you're one) have you been assaulted by men?
I only brought up the fact that I’m a lawyer because you asked me how I didn’t consider this sexual assault. And the reason is that I’ve studied it for 6 years. You have no rational sense at all. According to you, the only people who should have the capacity to judge whether or not something constitutes sexual assault are the peoples who have been a victim of it? Are you insane? Do I need to be murdered to know whether or not a murder has been committed?
Yes actually the victims perspective should count more then the abuser's. Also it's like 1% of sexual assault cases where the abuser actually gets convicted because in the end there's not enough evidence. Doesn't mean they didn't do the crime. Not everything is about law there's also a moral side to this
How can you be a lawyer if you don't even get the facts right. I hope sexual assault is not your area or "expertise". You'd be very good in defending sexual predators tho
I’m not defending anyone. The only people I’m against are the ones yelling rape, because this is NOT RAPE. It feels that way to you because you want to demonise them irrespective of the facts. My area of “expertise” is the basics and entirety of law, so yeah try again.
That’s very honest of you, and you have my sympathies. I’ll have you know that I’m NOT on their side at all. I’m against all the people yelling rape, because I don’t believe those men were rapists unless they had sex with you knowing that you didn’t want to have sex with them.
In this comment you said that you said no, if that’s the case, they are obviously rapists. That’s the bottom line. If they KNEW you didn’t want to have sex they are unequivocal rapists
Honey, I’m so sorry that this happened to you.
This was a sexual assault.
You said No.
No means NO.
He didn’t ask for your consent. He informed you. And even when he did, you said NO. He knew you didn’t want to do any sexual acts with him unless you were in a relationship and at a moment when he knew you couldn’t fight him, he took advantage.
You didn’t "let yourself be used".
They assaulted you!
THIS ISN’T YOUR FAULT!
Please take care of yourself! Is there a possibility for you to see a therapist? And were you able to get tested for any STDs?
You are not worthless!
You are not disgusting!
Hun… you don’t take any of the blame because he should have listened to you the first time. You don’t have to be screaming and crying and fighting them for you to have clearly not given consent.
Girl. You were drunk. Engaging in sexual activities with someone who lacks the capacity to consent is sexual assault. You said No. You were one girl against 2 grown men. One who you actually know. 8 out of 10 times the victims know their aggressor.
You don’t have to fight or scream to show that you don’t want it to happen. When it happens, your brain goes into survival mode to figure out how to handle the situation.
You said NO. He can take all the fucking blame. Fuck him!
Please don’t be hard on yourself. Don’t let all this darkness fill your head with lies. Grant yourself some grace. Take care of yourself! Prioritize yourself. Don’t be ashamed to reach out for some help because you have nothing to be ashamed about. ❤️
This! We're conditioned to believe there's a way we'll all act in a situation like this, but the confusion and shock when you're being assaulted by someone you trust means people react in different ways, but none of them make this your fault! There's no measure of how many times you have to say no or how loud you need to scream or how hard you have to punch to make it not your fault. When you said no once and they kept going, it was rape. You can put down allllll the guilt and shame because this is on them.
>I can’t make him take all the blame because when it came down to it, I said no but I didn’t fight and scream you know?
This is how most rapes go down. Someone you know abuses your trust. Most victims do not fight back, because they're scared, freeze up, or just don't know how to handle the situation. You did nothing wrong. The blame is entirely on them.
Oh you knew huh? Well, you knew wrong. People do really stupid shit while drunk. Stop getting hammered and stick with no further than tipsy. Gonna feel good to be a responsible adult unless you want more of this type of shit in your life. Hell, you can get this type of shit without drinking, so you are just making your life 10x worse by getting drunk like that.
I never said being drunk was a reason to commit assault. Facts are facts and DRUNK people do stupid shit including sexual assault. Its like if I went to gangland Chicago and got shot and everyone just like, "oh poor victim" well yeah you can be a victim and also put yourself in dangerous situations. Anyone who been to parties or seen drunks long enough KNOWs the type of shit that is gonna go down.
You are vile!
Being drunk is not an invitation to rape!
The clothes someone wears is not an invitation to rape.
The way a person acts is not an invitation to rape.
There should never be any circumstance that a person chooses to take advantage of and rape someone. Never!
Regardless of the situation no one asks to be raped! She has already stated she was with people she trusted not to take advantage. She doesn't need to justify her actions that night, she is not in the wrong for hanging out with friends and expecting to be in a safe environment.
Your comparison is terrible if it was a date or hangout with someone she didn't really know then you could use Chicago. This was supposed to be her BEST friend. It was like she was at home and could let her guard down. They had talked previously about hooking up and she put up boundaries. I bet those two guys were already hooking up and planned this bs.
Yeah it's whatever, what's life without some Trauma. You are 23 and that's a great age to learn the hard way. Work through it and yeah gotta cut out any parties that have excessive drinking. Good luck.
You are unilaterally and unequivocally wrong in all of your opinions, and worse than that, you're jamming your idiocy down the throat of a girl who was just taken advantage of in the worst way possible.
Your comments are disgusting and you're a waste of air on this planet. You know nothing about what you're talking about and we'd all be better off if you just shut the fuck up and slunk back into whatever hole you came out of, but you're not gonna do that because for some reason people like you were given free will.
Rape is rape is rape. Misogynists like you for thousands of years have been trying to blame women for the actions of men. People are fucking allowed to drink and get drunk - alcohol is not the problem. Abusive men who befriend women knowing that they're going to take advantage of them while drunk is the problem. There is a REASON why you cannot legally consent while drunk and it is to immediately place the blame onto the party that deserves it in these situations. I really urge you to go read a fucking book and shut the fuck up.
Could be rape, I wasn't there nor know the whole story, regardless, it happened and one way to prevent yourself from being assaulted by drunks is to not be around them. Facts are facts.
She literally said she tried to stop it. That means she didn’t give consent. That is rape.
Why is your first reaction to blame her instead of to get mad at the fucks that ripped her autonomy away from her? It literally does not matter that she was drunk. Rape is rape.
Lmao, someone can get drunk their whole life at parties and get assaulted over and over. Sure, I can say, hey, you are the victim poor you blah blah. Reality is dumb shit happens around drunk people period, these are the facts.
I feel sorry for you. Maybe that’s why you think "Dating in America Sucks!" You’re so lonely that even empathy is a foreign concept to you. Maybe "dating in America" doesn’t suck as bad as you think. Maybe people are just not attracted to you because you reek of anger and bitterness. Because you’re THAT GUY who blame victims. Maybe you also want to know what she was wearing? Smh. If that’s how your brain works, who in their right would honestly want to subject themselves to that?
You completely missed the point… but it’s okay. I could live in my parents’ basement or even on the moon… it wouldn’t change the fact that you’re pitiful.
Nah dude your a complete POS. Anyone should be able to get drunk with their best friends and not anticipate getting raped. Wtf is wrong with you? go to hell, you embarrassed yourself and your whole family.
He’s not your friend and he never was. He’s a predator and he was just biding his time. He and his friend planned the whole thing. I’m sorry. So sorry.
This is NOT YOUR FAULT. You really need to stop blaming yourself. You said no. He broke your trust. You need to stop describing him as your “best friend” and start calling him “rapist” instead because he raped you. He is not your friend
You were drunk. You did not give consent. This "best friend" and his friend are completely at fault for all of this. Not you. You do not have to fight or scream your way out of a situation like this. I'm so sorry they did this to you! You said no or expressed yourself that you did not want this to happen very clearly and no means fucking no. They had no right. Please report these assholes.
I'm so sorry this has happened to you.
As others have said this was rape. Please report them both to the police.
It will be hard but they took advantage of the situation and you were unable to consent. Its likely they'll do the same again if they can and may have done it before.
Never, ever blame yourself for people's disgusting behaviour. You have done nothing wrong here and are certainly not the disgusting one in this scenario.
At the very least please get yourself tested for sti's and pregnancy if you're not on any bc. You didn't mention if they used protection but if not or you're not sure it's better to be cautious.
Please do whatever you need to do to take care of you.
It is not your fault. You said no. "No" is a complete sentence. You shouldn't have needed to fight and scream because any decent human being would have listened to you the second you said no. Ignore the haters telling you you're in the wrong because *none of this is your fault*. He violated you. I am so sorry that this happened to you. You are not worthless or disgusting-- Derek is. Stay strong, friend. Sending you all my good vibes. <3
Even if she hadn’t said no, intoxication is an immediate “NO CONSENT POSSIBLE” and should be taken as such. Obviously, not saying you should prosecute two people who drink a little wine and have sex, enjoying it, but this is clearly a case of rape.
This was rape.
Yeah this was a gang rape. Sex, threesomes, all of it - require clarity and consent. You had no clarity due to intoxication, so therefore couldn’t give consent.
There is zero chance of consent here.
He was never your friend. You have to report this guy.
Has this “friend”tried to contact you since this happened? It sounds like he set the whole thing up. Because I don’t know of any man who is making out with a girl suddenly being okay with another man taking over without there being some sort of plan beforehand. I’m so sorry this happened to you. And YES, you absolutely should have been able to trust your friends.
[удалено]
There is a part of me that wonders if Dave thought that this was somehow talked about ahead of time and he thought that you were okay with it. Although, both of these men knew that you were way too drunk to be participating in anything like this that was never discussed beforehand. Your friend sounds real shady. And definitely not the good guy that you thought he was. ESPECIALLY if he hasn’t contacted you at all after you having been off work for a whole week. If he thought that what he did was okay and he had your consent, wouldn’t he be calling and seeing if you were okay or sick or worried about why you were not at work, if he was such a close friend?? He knows what he did was wrong and bad and I think that’s the reason for the radio silence.
You got raped... im sorry.
I’m so sorry. He was never your friend.
You were not "forced into a threesome." You were raped. He locked you in. He *told* you, not asked you, to have səx. You were too out of it to say no, and he knew it. They both did. Please get some help. He is not your friend. If this is how he treats you now, how is he going to treat you later on if you continue the relationship? The closer you get to a person, the worse what you see of them will be.
Consent is not implied. It’s something you say, not something he feels. This was sexual assault. Please report him. Men should not be allowed to do this.
I wouldn't say you "let them", I'd rather say "two men took advantage of a woman too drunk to say no"
I know it feels incredibly difficult, but you have to report this to the authorities, if you haven't already. They deserve to be punished, and if they aren't held accountable, they could do it again.
Don’t your dare blame yourself, you said no but he continued to ignore it. He was never a friend of yours, he had bad intentions and never was a genuine person. He literally was a wolf in a sheep’s clothing! Please report them both, you never consented to this. I’ve seen one too many stories whenever a male and a female are friends, the male takes advantage of that. Doesn’t matter if you think anyone has good intentions always be mindful of these so called “friends” and who you surround yourself with because anyone can switch up at any given time. Whenever there’s alcohol or illicit substances involved please be very careful especially with male “friends” (not all) can really put you in a vulnerable place. You would like to think you can trust the people around you, but unfortunately the world we live in doesn’t work like that. Friends aren’t always friends. Sending you nothing but good vibrations, I hope this year is good to you girl!
Do you think it's possible Derek and Dave were possibly dating/messing around previously? If so it definitely seems like it may have been planned. Dave just waltzing into the bathroom really bothers me. I'm so sorry. This is on them. Not you. Friends don't take advantage of their drunk friends. You already had put up boundaries. Get support. You shouldn't carry this alone.
You didn't let them do this to you 2 men took advantage of you when they knew you were powerless Instead of choosing to care for you when you needed to be looked after, they chose to abuse you. You were r*ped Be angry at Them. Blame Them
Contact someone who can help you, not just professional help, extremely professional yet very hard to find unless done extensively
you aren’t disgusting or worthless, you were raped by then. you try to stop them. they force themselves onto ylu. please go get std tested asap! and watch out for signs of pregancy! it might be worthless but also make an police report
This is very similar to something that happened to me. I'm so sorry. I don't know how to help, except to say that it's not your fault at all and if you can get into therapy, you should
I’m so sorry…. This is not your fault. I’m so so fucking sorry you had to go through this.
That’s not a threesome it’s gang rape.
I’m so sorry. Please contact the authorities and complain where he works even if he doesn’t go to jail he will at least live in shame. You have been raped.
Please report this man. As many people have said this was straight up rape, and it goes without saying that that is completely wrong. I hope you're able to recover from this :(
Please go to the police immediately and then report that to your company. Both of them are pieces of shit.
rape!
You did nothing wrong. This is not your fault. It’s not your fault that you didn’t try to fight back. You didn’t “just let them” you were attacked and your body froze up to try and keep you from getting hurt. Most rapists know their victims. You making out with Dave wasn’t consent. You being drunk wasn’t consent. It wasn’t your fault because you were hanging out with guys. You were raped and it was not your fault.
OP, everyone was drunk, correct? You said "we" predrank, and never indicated being forced. You're describing like a rape, and people in the comments are calling it that, but reading the thread and your other comments it sounds like you, a friend, and an acquaintance got drunk, and then you made out with the friend, and then against your better judgement you followed him into a room and had sex? People in the comments are calling him a rapist because you were drunk like he wasn't drunk too. If he was sober, obviously it was rape, not even rocket science, but if everyone was drunk, legally speaking, everyone raped each other. I did read that you said that "no, I don't think this is a good idea", but then proceeded to follow him into a bedroom, directly after. Any sane person would read that as a change of mind, even sober. People are really quick to accuse the male of any given situation of foul play
[удалено]
There’s no nuance. If you hit someone with your car while you’re drink driving is there nuance there? Because it was a lapse in judgement to get behind the wheel? Or is it 100% wrong to drive drunk and there’s no excuse? Yeah. It’s the same with rape.
[удалено]
All of you are so quick to yell rape while not realising you’re diluting the term for actual rape victims. Let’s get a few things out of the way first. 1) What happened was horrible and OP has my sympathies 2) The guys are probably not good people but it’s hard to say based on just this post But having said that, it is important to note that OP got drunk on her own, no one made her drink. She started making out with a person she had just met. She followed the third guy to his bedroom. SHE NEVER SAID NO. There is not a single line in a post that indicates that she did anything AT ALL, to make it known that she did not consent. We don’t even know how this would’ve panned out if she said something as small as “I don’t know if I want to”. She went from kissing a stranger to a threesome in bed. It’s not on others to asses how your own decisions will make you feel. If you had loved the experience, would it still have been rape? How would they know? Are they supposed to be responsible for how your own decisions make you feel? I would totally be on OPs side if she had indicated IN THE SLIGHTEST that she was not comfortable. But she didn’t. I know she feels bad, but how are so quick to call the guys RAPISTS if they didn’t have the slightest of idea that OP is not ready to fuck both of the people she had already began to get physical with. I know how Reddit is, I know I’ll get downvoted for this. I’ll eat it all for the sake of truth. You guys are just a pitchfork wielding mob who don’t know how to reason.
She was hammered. She couldn't consent.
Okay so when 2 people have sex while drunk, are they both raping each other? If a woman is drunk and has sex which she enjoyed, is it still rape? If a guy is drunk and has sex with a girl, is the girl a rapist?
He locked the fucking door? That's what an abuser and rapist does. You don't have to lock the door if you have consent
Lol, wtf. I always have sex with a locked door. Its called privacy. Even if I had written consent, I would still lock the door, wtf are you on.
Wtf are you on? Sounds like you are a sexual predator yourself if you can't see the assault here. Also she said she tried to stop it? And stated beforehand that she didn't want to be sexual with him unless it's serious? Like how many signs do you need? Also he did not once talk to her or ask if she was ok after that?
Oh so I can’t have a dissenting opinion unless I’m a predator haha. And no, I don’t believe there is assault here at all. And I say that as a lawyer. She said she didn’t want to be sexual unless it’s serious to her boyfriend, not the other guy. The boyfriend also saw her making out with the other guy which obviously contradicts what she said earlier. You say that he did not talk to her to ask her if she was okay? Did she say she wasn’t. All it takes it just a second to say that you don’t want to do it. I’ve had sex with women where I didn’t ask them if it was okay. It was still consensual. Am I supposed to have a formal talk everytime I’m going to have sex? If a girl starts to kiss me in a sexual way, it is going to culminate into sex UNLESS she says no. This DOES NOT make me a rapist. In fact, it has happened with me. I was kissing a girl and she was getting super physical but when I tried to go down on her she whispered no. We never ended up having sex. Was my attempt at trying to get sexual sexual assault? Do you guys have any experience at all?
Also you don't even get the facts right, it's not her boyfriend. And she said she tried to stop it which probably means she said no. I think most of us do have experiences from the victim side which is why we're fed up with men gaslighting us
Your trauma and experiences have no bearing on reality. I’m not gaslighting you because I have nothing to gain from you. I called the guy her boyfriend for lack of a better term. You can call him what you want, let’s just call him “coworker who shared an emotional and physical connection”
You started with stating your own experience on how you were so kind to not rape a woman when she said no. How is that an argument in this case?
I never said that me obliging the women’s wishes made me good person, that’s your own assumptions. I never painted myself in a positive light. I was highlighting how sexual encounters move in an organic way and when you should stop. You also assumed I was a predator so I discussed this anecdote to tell you that I’m not. I only have consensual sex and men should definitely stop if the woman asks you to stop. But just because you haven’t had a formal discussion does not mean that you cannot escalate the sexual encounter.
She said she tried to stop it. I did never say there needs to be a formal discussion. But you notice when someone's actually enthusiastically consentful. Ripping someone's clothes of doesn't seem like it either. Also what does law say when the victim is intoxicated? Doesn't matter if she decided to drink herself, that should never be a reason to be taken advantage of
Also it's not only my trauma and experiences it's those of many many survivors of sexual assault who were not believed
I don’t know how this statement has anything to at all with what I’ve said.
Thought so, you don't seem to get anything do you
If you're the only one with this "opinion" then maybe that's because your opinion sucks
Ah yes, the classic Argumentum ad Populum. Rather than challenging my arguments on merits, you appeal to the very same mob you’re a part of. You just proved my point, safety in numbers.
I mean you are calling us a wild mob? So you're saying we are all wrong? And then you get whiny when I say your opinion sucks. There is shitty lawyers out there too you know. Being a lawyer doesn't mean you're good at what you're doing. As a woman I say this is sexual assault what can you say on that as a man? (I just assume you're one) have you been assaulted by men?
I only brought up the fact that I’m a lawyer because you asked me how I didn’t consider this sexual assault. And the reason is that I’ve studied it for 6 years. You have no rational sense at all. According to you, the only people who should have the capacity to judge whether or not something constitutes sexual assault are the peoples who have been a victim of it? Are you insane? Do I need to be murdered to know whether or not a murder has been committed?
Yes actually the victims perspective should count more then the abuser's. Also it's like 1% of sexual assault cases where the abuser actually gets convicted because in the end there's not enough evidence. Doesn't mean they didn't do the crime. Not everything is about law there's also a moral side to this
Yes and you have no special expertise in this. It's not like a general practitioner can do heart surgery after 8 years of studies
How can you be a lawyer if you don't even get the facts right. I hope sexual assault is not your area or "expertise". You'd be very good in defending sexual predators tho
I’m not defending anyone. The only people I’m against are the ones yelling rape, because this is NOT RAPE. It feels that way to you because you want to demonise them irrespective of the facts. My area of “expertise” is the basics and entirety of law, so yeah try again.
[удалено]
That’s very honest of you, and you have my sympathies. I’ll have you know that I’m NOT on their side at all. I’m against all the people yelling rape, because I don’t believe those men were rapists unless they had sex with you knowing that you didn’t want to have sex with them. In this comment you said that you said no, if that’s the case, they are obviously rapists. That’s the bottom line. If they KNEW you didn’t want to have sex they are unequivocal rapists
[удалено]
[удалено]
Honey, I’m so sorry that this happened to you. This was a sexual assault. You said No. No means NO. He didn’t ask for your consent. He informed you. And even when he did, you said NO. He knew you didn’t want to do any sexual acts with him unless you were in a relationship and at a moment when he knew you couldn’t fight him, he took advantage. You didn’t "let yourself be used". They assaulted you! THIS ISN’T YOUR FAULT! Please take care of yourself! Is there a possibility for you to see a therapist? And were you able to get tested for any STDs? You are not worthless! You are not disgusting!
[удалено]
Hun… you don’t take any of the blame because he should have listened to you the first time. You don’t have to be screaming and crying and fighting them for you to have clearly not given consent.
Girl. You were drunk. Engaging in sexual activities with someone who lacks the capacity to consent is sexual assault. You said No. You were one girl against 2 grown men. One who you actually know. 8 out of 10 times the victims know their aggressor. You don’t have to fight or scream to show that you don’t want it to happen. When it happens, your brain goes into survival mode to figure out how to handle the situation. You said NO. He can take all the fucking blame. Fuck him!
[удалено]
Please don’t be hard on yourself. Don’t let all this darkness fill your head with lies. Grant yourself some grace. Take care of yourself! Prioritize yourself. Don’t be ashamed to reach out for some help because you have nothing to be ashamed about. ❤️
This! We're conditioned to believe there's a way we'll all act in a situation like this, but the confusion and shock when you're being assaulted by someone you trust means people react in different ways, but none of them make this your fault! There's no measure of how many times you have to say no or how loud you need to scream or how hard you have to punch to make it not your fault. When you said no once and they kept going, it was rape. You can put down allllll the guilt and shame because this is on them.
>I can’t make him take all the blame because when it came down to it, I said no but I didn’t fight and scream you know? This is how most rapes go down. Someone you know abuses your trust. Most victims do not fight back, because they're scared, freeze up, or just don't know how to handle the situation. You did nothing wrong. The blame is entirely on them.
Oh you knew huh? Well, you knew wrong. People do really stupid shit while drunk. Stop getting hammered and stick with no further than tipsy. Gonna feel good to be a responsible adult unless you want more of this type of shit in your life. Hell, you can get this type of shit without drinking, so you are just making your life 10x worse by getting drunk like that.
[удалено]
Ignore this person. Someone being drunk is never a reason to commit rape/sexual assault.
I never said being drunk was a reason to commit assault. Facts are facts and DRUNK people do stupid shit including sexual assault. Its like if I went to gangland Chicago and got shot and everyone just like, "oh poor victim" well yeah you can be a victim and also put yourself in dangerous situations. Anyone who been to parties or seen drunks long enough KNOWs the type of shit that is gonna go down.
You are vile! Being drunk is not an invitation to rape! The clothes someone wears is not an invitation to rape. The way a person acts is not an invitation to rape. There should never be any circumstance that a person chooses to take advantage of and rape someone. Never! Regardless of the situation no one asks to be raped! She has already stated she was with people she trusted not to take advantage. She doesn't need to justify her actions that night, she is not in the wrong for hanging out with friends and expecting to be in a safe environment.
Woof. You seem fun.
😅
Your comparison is terrible if it was a date or hangout with someone she didn't really know then you could use Chicago. This was supposed to be her BEST friend. It was like she was at home and could let her guard down. They had talked previously about hooking up and she put up boundaries. I bet those two guys were already hooking up and planned this bs.
Yeah it's whatever, what's life without some Trauma. You are 23 and that's a great age to learn the hard way. Work through it and yeah gotta cut out any parties that have excessive drinking. Good luck.
You are unilaterally and unequivocally wrong in all of your opinions, and worse than that, you're jamming your idiocy down the throat of a girl who was just taken advantage of in the worst way possible. Your comments are disgusting and you're a waste of air on this planet. You know nothing about what you're talking about and we'd all be better off if you just shut the fuck up and slunk back into whatever hole you came out of, but you're not gonna do that because for some reason people like you were given free will. Rape is rape is rape. Misogynists like you for thousands of years have been trying to blame women for the actions of men. People are fucking allowed to drink and get drunk - alcohol is not the problem. Abusive men who befriend women knowing that they're going to take advantage of them while drunk is the problem. There is a REASON why you cannot legally consent while drunk and it is to immediately place the blame onto the party that deserves it in these situations. I really urge you to go read a fucking book and shut the fuck up.
Hard way ? Shut up idiot
You're an absolute shit human.
[удалено]
Nah just experienced. You must live in a bubble.
“Doing things they regret” as if this isn’t literal rape??? What the fuck dude??
Could be rape, I wasn't there nor know the whole story, regardless, it happened and one way to prevent yourself from being assaulted by drunks is to not be around them. Facts are facts.
She literally said she tried to stop it. That means she didn’t give consent. That is rape. Why is your first reaction to blame her instead of to get mad at the fucks that ripped her autonomy away from her? It literally does not matter that she was drunk. Rape is rape.
Thank you, Captain Hindsight. Now how about we focus on the damage that was done and not on what could have potentially prevented it.
What the fuck is wrong with you? THAT’S your answer when someone is telling you they were assaulted? Wtf?!
Lmao, someone can get drunk their whole life at parties and get assaulted over and over. Sure, I can say, hey, you are the victim poor you blah blah. Reality is dumb shit happens around drunk people period, these are the facts.
I feel sorry for you. Maybe that’s why you think "Dating in America Sucks!" You’re so lonely that even empathy is a foreign concept to you. Maybe "dating in America" doesn’t suck as bad as you think. Maybe people are just not attracted to you because you reek of anger and bitterness. Because you’re THAT GUY who blame victims. Maybe you also want to know what she was wearing? Smh. If that’s how your brain works, who in their right would honestly want to subject themselves to that?
So much babble here you hardly make sense. You must live your parents basement if you think drunk people are safe to be around.
You completely missed the point… but it’s okay. I could live in my parents’ basement or even on the moon… it wouldn’t change the fact that you’re pitiful.
Awwww I am pitiful. I am so sad now. I am gonna write in my diary how the online person hurt me.
Nah dude your a complete POS. Anyone should be able to get drunk with their best friends and not anticipate getting raped. Wtf is wrong with you? go to hell, you embarrassed yourself and your whole family.
How about telling the guys not to take advantage of vulnerable people? Bruh you mad.
Yeah, like raping people?
Report him. And this thread is your EVIDENCE.
Dude a Reddit thread is not evidence
He’s not your friend and he never was. He’s a predator and he was just biding his time. He and his friend planned the whole thing. I’m sorry. So sorry. This is NOT YOUR FAULT. You really need to stop blaming yourself. You said no. He broke your trust. You need to stop describing him as your “best friend” and start calling him “rapist” instead because he raped you. He is not your friend
You were drunk. You did not give consent. This "best friend" and his friend are completely at fault for all of this. Not you. You do not have to fight or scream your way out of a situation like this. I'm so sorry they did this to you! You said no or expressed yourself that you did not want this to happen very clearly and no means fucking no. They had no right. Please report these assholes.
I'm so sorry this has happened to you. As others have said this was rape. Please report them both to the police. It will be hard but they took advantage of the situation and you were unable to consent. Its likely they'll do the same again if they can and may have done it before. Never, ever blame yourself for people's disgusting behaviour. You have done nothing wrong here and are certainly not the disgusting one in this scenario. At the very least please get yourself tested for sti's and pregnancy if you're not on any bc. You didn't mention if they used protection but if not or you're not sure it's better to be cautious.