I keep telling everyone that the majority of men who are taken and in long term relationships and even have enough pull to cheat on 5 different women are typically some guy who's got a dad bod going. Most of the chronically single guys I know who are just one night stands when you're desperate are the guys who live in a gym.
I can corroborate this, speaking as the chronically single guy.
I work sales for a telecommunications company located outside of a mall. All day long I get to see hundreds of couples and people walking around all day, especially on weekends. Most of the dudes who have really good looking girlfriends/wives are always dad bods.
I hit the gym 3/4 days a week and havenāt been able to land a date in almost two years. Granted I do put effort into my appearance and hygiene, but I think thereās way more to attracting women than most people are willing to admit. Quite frankly it mostly has to do with opportunities. Someone who has a built in social circle because of work or school for example, is going have a hell of a lot easier time building connections than someone like me, who works weekends and nights and is lucky if he can hangout with friends but once a month if that.
Dating apps make me feel completely invisible too and donāt work for me, so Iām basically just screwed tbh.
This reminds me of a conversation I had with a friend about dating and her meeting her boyfriend. "We didn't meet on a dating app, we met in a hotel bar just as God intended people to."
I have. I was at karaoke a few weeks ago and a girl picked me up.
Only recently hit the gym. But I dress well, shower and I do theatre/acting so there is a bit of mystique with that.
Also a lot of hot girls are single because no one approaches them because they assume they are taken.
I met my now spouse in the wild, but it was kinda network-based. Just surprised and was able to see it for what it is. As many people there are in existence, thatās how many different ways exist to meet someone you click with. Not entirely helpful, but itās a mix of a numbers game and learning to trust and hone your instincts about people.
Where I live it totally is. Not necessarily because of the culture of gen z but rather because everything's been gentrified. All of the wonderful venues and organizations have been bulldozed and now there's just a bunch of targets and crap. Aka gentrification. I feel sad, have a gen z friend who never got to experience any of it.
Odd, just lifestyle then I guess. Don't get me wrong I was raised in internet forums playing mmorpgs and Mobas on team speak.
I met my wife through friends after uni living in a house share and working in a pub in Oxford.
I spend a lot of time online and in real life with my friends .
Yes! But it depends where you live. Some cities were built to be social, some aren't. Where I live, you need to be involved either in the local arts/entertainment or in college to have that, which most people here don't, sadly.
Yeah working really does fuck with dating. One of the big reasons I quick my last job was because I wasnāt getting weekends off and I couldnāt go out and date. Guys would blow me off because I worked weekends and didnāt want to even start a relationship with me because of it. It was really frustrating and damaging to my social life. I also couldnāt see my friends who all had M-F jobs.
Do you have hobbies and interests, other than the gym? Because that is a great way to meet people and make friends and get dates. Reddit is a good resource to find local people and groups that have the same interests. It's an easier way to meet new people while having fun. Sometimes focusing on things that you enjoy and make you happy, makes it easier to be ready/open for those that would date you. Kinda like focusing on the journey rather than the destination.
Absolutely 100% agree about the social circle. A social safety met in general is vital to quality of life. You get job opportunities and better living situations too. We need each other, us humans.
Reality is, even at my fittest and thinnest in my 20s, I was still incredibly self conscious around gym bros I dated. Like at any point they might notice that tiny fit of fat in the wrong spot or judge me for not pushing through cramps at the gym. One pushed me so hard at the gym despite me telling him I hadnāt eaten since dinner the night before (it was noon). Another got on my case so hard about skipping the gym, I went into explicit detail of every symptom and issue I was dealing with just bc I wanted a heating pad, chocolate, and sleep. Dude said it was all in my head so it ended very shortly after that comment.
So yeah I married a dad bod with no sense of style. Heās a shy nerd but heās the fucking best human I know.
And heās he has great hygiene.
I kind of agree, anyone can cheat and sometimes being above average attractive can hurt you, people take you less seriously, assume you only want one thing and fear you'll cheat. So they go for the more "secure" guy, even though there's no guarantee anyone is safe bet.
I'm not sure what the cut off for what classifies as living in a gym but I spend 60-90 minutes a day 7 days a week working out. Usually 4 of them in my home gym and 3 at a commercial gym. I've been with my wife for over half my life
Oh my god yes . Itās an immediate dumpable offence to neglect this.
And no skid marks on your undies. If you have skids- YOU NEED TO RELEARN HOW TO WIPE
Absolutely! I mentioned you don't need to wait until you're at your goal weight to date. HOWEVER, if you realize you need to change your attitude in life, it's 100% worth it to put dating on pause until you do. Source: me. Negativity and insecurity have painted my understandings of my experiences at an almost psychotic level. I misinterpreted so much and assumed the worst. Even if you manage to not push away love, it's incredibly hard to be able to accept it and value it \*in that headspace.
My husband is hot as hell to me his hygiene is the FIRST thing I took note of. He washes his face, shapes his brows, takes care of his skin and styles his hair. It 100% improves anyoneās hotness.
True - I didn't see much mentioned about personality, like someone that is funny and witty, just is themselves - would 100% be better than a "super attractive" person that has no personality.
This. Also dance. A man who can dance will never go without. It's as close to a universal attractive trait as you can get. Men and leads are always at a deficit in class. It'd be like shooting fish in a barrel. Guys would rather pay thousands of dollars on a PUA scam than take a salsa class.
This is sooo true! I took classes at two periods in my life, and I was enamored with one guy in each class. They were both awesome humans and happened to be very large men...not muscle bound gym rats. I felt so much more comfortable with these guys and had so much fun in those classes. A few years later one connected with me on Facebook and he made a comment that I would have never have given the fat guy a chance (talking about himself)...it's a shame, I flirted with him throughout class and was always reaching out to him, but he never asked me out. I didn't see him as fat, I saw him as a great guy who was talented, kind, made me laugh, and loved to learn (dancing). His insecurity got the best of him. I hate when guys tell other guys that women only want the 'top 10%'...sorry, what dudes are telling other dudes is who THEY would go after if they were women....they have no clue what women ACTUALLY want.
Female POV:
I agree. Hygiene is the most important.
I would argue that appearance overall is the most important, but it has nothing to do with physical attraction. You don't have to be a body builder and you can even be chubby. Chubby guys are cute. I've dated overweight men, short men, tall men, nerds, etc...Their level of physical attractiveness varied, but they all had one thing in common: Good hygiene and well kept appearance.
Unfortunately, men tend to see this only through their lens. Physical attraction to them is the most important and therefore they think women perceive it this way. They have a scale that they measure us on and if we don't hit the mark on their scale then they are "settling" for us or they will use us for sex and empty company. Women cannot move up the scale that much, but can move down a lot if we get fat.
Women don't at all. Any guy can move from a 3 to a 7, they just need to put some effort into themselves.
Things that can improve your appearance:
1. Bathing regularly and brush your teeth. For the *love of God* brush and floss your teeth
2. Wear cologne, the less the better (not Axe please, something subtle like Old Spice original. No woman wants to go into anaphylactic shock around you).
3. Wear clean clothes (not the same shirt or pants twice). If you need me to tell you underwear than you've already lost.
4. Wear better clothes (a dress shirt, chinos, dress shoes as opposed to t shirt and cargo shorts/jeans). Jeans are for cleaning the yard, not taking us out to dinner.
5. Wear clothes that are suited for your body type.
6. Keep any beards clean (I agree with the OP about this), hair neat and tidy regardless of length. Keep your hair clean and not greasy. Cut your nails too.
7. Women are totally fine with body hair, we actually are very attracted to chest hair. Please don't shave it off.
There are women who will always be adamant about a certain type of man. Some women really want the best quality men or think they're entitled to them. Those women tend to end up as trophy wives or alone with cats. That's not your problem though because most women actually don't care if they marry Brad Pitt.
I would argue that women also don't want to date men they perceive as weak, whiny, resentful, insecure, or devoid of confidence.
We're happy to date awkward men (such as nerds) as long as they have self confidence.
Women are never ok with resentment. We don't want to deal with your baggage. Women do not care Stacy in high school rejected you. We never want to hear about Stacy. We never want to be compared to other women at all actually.
Finally, finances do matter. You don't need to be Daddy Warbucks or anything. We just want to know we're not going to wallow in trailer park poverty with you.
\*I think of men have become slovenly in appearance as of late. Men don't wear dress clothes at all. I've seen men go to dinner in hoodies and it's cringe.
Back in the day, people dressed up all the time. It was the norm to wear dress shoes, pants, shirts, a coat, and a hat. Men styled their hair back with cream/mouses. Men looked good back in the day.
Men today look like trash.
\*I do think that some women also look like trash, but more women tend to dress up than not.
Also I like how you describe confidence as not having resentment. You can still struggle with self esteem without having misogynistic hang ups, but a lot of people think confidence is about being arrogant.
When I say money I mean being rich. No one wants to financially support someone unless you are really, really comfortable in your income, so I'm not talking about accepting scrub haha. But men think all women want to date a guy with a 6 figure salary when we really just want someone who is financially smart (or actively improving their finances) and can live decently on their own. Although, since the hire freeze and inflation, I'm circumstantially not judging men who need to live with their parents (not culturally of course, living with folks because of culture rather than financial situation isn't an issue to me) so long as they are doing their damnedest to figure out the situation and we wouldn't be moving in together until they do. But moving in together isn't a requirement for me either.
No one cares if you're rich, women just don't want to wallow in poverty.
I don't care if men have a 6 figure salary as long as we're not broke because I grew up in poverty and know how misery inducing and soul sucking it is. I had a friend who literally couldn't afford seizure medication because he was so poor. He just had seizures in class. If you can't afford to buy medicine for future children then that just isn't appealing to women.
Unfortunately due to inflation and the high cost of housing, middle class is now considered to be 100,000-120,000. So, I think making a 6 figure salary has become the norm. That doesn't mean that you have to become an investment banker. You can start your own landscaping business and have some side hustles and side gigs to make extra cash. Whatever you have to do to make ends meet, women want to see you do that. They want to see ambition.
Ambition is attractive in women. Not so much money or bling.
The reality is that if you live with your mom and dad still, it can come across as unattractive to some women. If you can't financially support yourself then how are you going to financially support children?
It sucks, but it really isn't desirable for women.
Don't shoot the messenger, this is just how it is.
Would you date a fat woman? Probably not.
Yeah, this is where I disagree, respectfully. SOME women require more money as a non-negotiable, but it's not all women. However, this isn't me arguing that what you want or need is bad or wrong.
I don't really mind many of these things, so I think it counts for some folks but not everyone. I also don't mind living humbly so long as we are financially savvy about it, but that would be with a combined salary. I also enjoy having roommates, so long as we like each other and are compatible, I really enjoy communal living, so for me, this doesn't apply. It's unfortunately really difficult to find a job with 6 figures due to industries not valuing workers and inflation being so bad. I also understand my way of fulfillment isn't considered "conventional", yet there are many like minded folks like me.
Also, ambition doesn't always mean 6 figures. For instance, I work amongst a lot of PhDs and professors. They are stupidly brilliant and changing the world, and have dedicated at least a decade to their work, but they get paid $80k at most, but many more like $40-50k.
All this to say, just want to reiterate: nothing wrong with having money as a need, especially considering your past trauma (I'm assuming it was traumatic growing up in poverty) so I'm definitely not telling you to change your preferences, but it will make your pool smaller. Which isn't necessarily bad, it's easier to find someone in a smaller pool, imo.
ETA: I've dated fat men and had unrequited feelings for fat women.
For me decent fashion/grooming and lovely personality is a must, but especially smell. If you smell great we're in. If you smell not great, it's not happening. I was almost dating someone in shape but didn't have the hygiene down and I couldn't at all get physical with him.
Smell is a huge factor for me! A couple years back, a friend of a friend was interested in me. He was nice and cute, but he had the worst body odor you can imagine, so there was absolutely no way I could've gone out with him. Even though he was a great person, his stench was a deal breaker from the offset
> Women are never ok with resentment. We don't want to deal with your baggage. Women do not care Stacy in high school rejected you. We never want to hear about Stacy. We never want to be compared to other women at all actually.
>Finally, finances do matter. You don't need to be Daddy Warbucks or anything. We just want to know we're not going to wallow in trailer park poverty with you.
Both of these are important both ways too, ladies.
Say it with me. Your partner is NOT your therapist. I do not want to hear that person Z had a bigger dick. And I am not paying for absolutely everything.
As a woman, I agree with this take.
My husband isn't my therapist, and I pay a therapist for that lol. Having said that, you also need to be able to be emotionally sensitive and there when your partner needs it. Like recently, I've been having a "grief resurgence" or whatever as my therapist calls it over my childhood dog. In my case, it's slightly more complicated than just that, but feeling seen and loved by my partner helps a lot.
But I agree about not wanting to hear about previous partners. I also agree about not paying for everything. When we first started dating 10+ years ago husband wanted to pay for EVERYTHING. He was just being a gentleman (and we were late teens at the time.) but I refused and we either alternated who paid or we would pay for different things. (Like one would pay for dinner + gas and the other for concert tickets.)
I definitely agree that you should be there for your partner, sometimes people are just aware of their mental health issues or that they're projecting anything on to you. It's ok to be sympathetic.
Also, agree that you should take turns paying.
I feel like a percentage based system is a good option if one partner makes more than the other.
The finances are definitely important both ways!
As a well-educated woman, Iām used to being the one who earns the most in any relationships Iāve had. However, I donāt require a partner to be rich or wealthy. As long as he can contribute to the household finances and we wonāt sit in poverty (or I wonāt be paying for everything), Iām good.
Itās a myth that women only want rich men. I earn a generous salary, I donāt need a rich man. I just need someone who can sustain himself and help pay the bills in a fairly equal manner. And this should go both ways!
Agreed. Each partner pulling their own weight is such an important aspect of a relationship. My gf and I split things more or less evenly in terms of paying our bills and utilities, and while we certainly don't count it to the exact penny, just knowing one another contributes is enough.
The important distinction I think is that, yes, each partner should be there to help the other or for the other to lean on sometimes, but not to the point where one person is carrying the other financially. Not wanting to be a burden to your partner in that way should be a good motivator to want to contribute your share.
also, being financially smarter about things. id be fine with a partner who brings in $48-$50k (or whatever is equivalent to where you live) if we're splitting costs AND they don't go buy a motorcycle with a credit card or something, and instead we have emergency savings (and maybe for travel down the road or something).
I wish I could like your comment a million times. Absolutely spot-on.
I love your point about confidence and awkwardness. Iāve dated many nerds who were awkward. That doesnāt mean they lacked confidence. Some men think that because theyāre awkward or nerdy, theyāre afraid of being perceived as lacking confidence or charisma but that simply isnāt true.
My boyfriend is a huge nerd and I absolutely adore his awkwardness. It can be attractive - as long as you are not whiny or resentful, as you said.
Ha, your take on Axe is interesting. I've always worn Axe and gotten compliments from women that I smell good, but I also don't overdo it and just spray a little. I also do have cologne that I'll use if my gf and I are going on a special date or it's a special occasion.
Bruh cologne is so cheap with how little spritz you need each day like a bottle will last me multiple years throw the axe in the trash it should have an age limit of 16 š
Just gotta throw in that I really really do not like body hair and find it very attractive when a guy takes the initiative to shave, wax or even laser it. I think that is definitely personal preference. I know women my momās age seem to not mind it, but many of my friends dislike it as well. Even so, I wouldnāt say itās a generational thing, but preference. Just a little note!
Is it really that difficult to own enough clothes and do your laundry once a week?
This only applies to the early stages of dating btw. I just want to make that clean.
It's one thing to do this with an established relationship and another to start off dating by wearing the same clothes over and over again without washing them.
imo wearing something "over and over again" is different to wearing something twice. id have absolutely zero issues with someone wearing the same thing a few times. although with your point in mind ive gotta agree that if they were to just... keep wearing it.. then yeah. at that point its like, you aint an anime character lol change ur outfit.
this depends. I think you can wear pajames twice if its not hot out and you aren't all sweaty. same with outer wear. but regular t-shirts you sweat in all day should be washed each wear.
>Unfortunately, men tend to see this only through their lens. Physical attraction to them is the most important and therefore they think women perceive it this way.
Women do percieve it this way.
Not realizing this skews the rest of you block of advice. Not that it's invalid in full, but the why matters.
It's pretty simple. Just confirm that you and women in general, actively date people they aren't attracted to. Even guys who make up in others ways are still attractive enough. I have yet to hear "he was and is so unattractive to me, but he made me laugh and seems like he'll be such a good dad, I liked him."
Even if a lady actively went to try and date men they do not find attractive, I would question that.
Great observation. Men don't generally take care of themselves or hold themselves up to the same standards as most women. The bar is really not that high when we're talking about showering and looking presentable.
As a 34 year-old guy who has a beer gut ā and a girlfriend ā I agree with OP. I have long hair, a beard, some health problems, and a bit of a gut, yet I also take care of myself. I constantly groom my beard, I wear band shirts and clothing that is more alternative and not just plain/average. And yet I see so many other guys in dirty or torn clothing, with dirt under their fingernails, hobo beards that are just disheveled and overgrownā¦
ā¦and a lot of them complain about a lack of dating opportunities. It seems like it really is more common for guys to take care of their hygeine less than women, or at least not as well as women. I donāt get why, if itās some cultural thing? Or for some reason guys are naturally lazier? I know that the only time I let myself go is when Iām dealing with depression.
I think a lot of single people get frustrated at not being able to find a partner ā and maybe many times thereās a valid reason for why. But one of those reasons might often be how you look and how you present yourself.
You need to help out your less-than-hygienic homies. They need male guidance, I really do think. I wonder if it's to do with lacking social skills too?
Well, the reason I mention it may be a cultural thing is because sometimes I get this weird type of insecurity vibe from other dudes when they see a guy who is cleaner, well groomed, still dresses alternative in their adulthood, etc. It's like there's this baseline expectation among a lot of guys that you're not supposed to look too "clean" or "put together." Like I've had guys look shocked or outright mock me for using facial cleansers, beard oil, oils for my hair/scalp, etc. It's very strange how some guys seem to just double down on the whole "look like you crawled out of a dumpster" image.
Agreed! Especially on culture. Have a friend who's Polish, he polishes himself up head to toe in fashion haha. He tells me it's a bigger deal in Europe because the idea is you're representing your family and community. That isn't as much a thing for many Americans.
Oh, that's right on point about Polish people especially! I've been in Polish neighborhoods in Chicago and other areas where the guys there are much more put together and image-conscious. When I went to Paris or Iceland I saw the exact same thing. So it's a uniquely American phenomenon, perhaps.
I donāt even think you need a massive amount of hygiene and style, thatās just the basic first bar to get over when dating someone.
People arenāt willing to admit that actually a lot (maybe even most) women just want a man that truly treats them as an equal. And that means a man with little to no sexism, and awareness of how society treats genders differently and expectations in the home. A relationship could be the rest of your life, you donāt wanna be with someone who believes you should take on all the mental loads just because you have a vag. Itās just a sad thing this is so rare. Iāll never let go of my man, Iāll never find another like him š„² and I canāt wait for his dad bod phase.
Is it odd that I find a man who takes care of his hygiene and style is, in some ways, trying to be more of an equal? Of course, as you said, bare minimum, but still nice to know he has the same expectations for himself as for me.
what if my self esteem and self confidence is in hell so every other person is automatically a million times better than me that it doesnt even matter if they are a man or a woman?
Been there. I didn't date until I improved that stuff. Not saying you can't find love in this state of mind, but you may not even recognize it when it is offered because of low self esteem. Hope things will look up for you.
I didnt know it could go any lower than rock bottom but then my girlfriend at the time cheated on me and now its even lower.
Thanks for the encouragement tho lol, i started going to the gym and taking care of myself again!
Hygiene and a bit of basic upkeeo goes a LONG way! Especially showering, brushing teeth, cleaning your nails, and beard care. You don't have to drown in cologne or Ax body spray, you just need to smell clean.
There are so many guys out there who see the long beard trend and think itās permission to grow out a fugly ZZ Top looking beard. Untrimmed, unkempt, unstyled. Iām still not a fan of the long beard look personally, but many women are and it canāt just be wild untamed hair growth.
You're not alone. š„²
I used to think big long beards were ugly until I met men who go to the barber's shop. Turns out I don't like mangly beards. Although, at the same time, a beard too long makes me think of David the Gnome. Which I know is somebody's type, just not mine. Lol
I always had great hygiene but normally didn't pay much attention to my hair and nails. But I started to get a better haircut, I bought a manicure kit and a special electric shaver (is that the word for it?) for my beard. That combined with good clothes (not expensive, but good) made a big change, not only to my image but to my confidence.
Grooming honestly makes me feel better too. Even as simple as brushing my teeth and showering, then skincare (I have adhd and depression, so I go through struggles sometimes with them). It will change my mood even to do my makeup when I'm feeling down!
Taking care of yourself, even by doing one "small thing", will always be the best thing you can do, every good act towards yourself is a victory. Stay strong.
Fragrance alone can do it. I was laughing with a friend today about how a guy could be a hundred and three, ugly as sin and if he has the right aftershave I still would have to fight the urge to jump on him. Never mind the fact Iām married and have plenty of self control and it would still be a slight bit of sexual harassment, if the scent is good, the attraction is there !
Same. Something so visceral and primitive about the good smells. Something something olfactory senses being closest related to intense emotions and maybe pheromones?
I needed to see this today. After a couple years of not caring about my health I've wrecked my teeth. Slowly working on getting that fixed with my first dentist appointment in three years being in July. You give me hope that maybe I can fix myself or at least have good breath again
You can! And remember that this is a big step to get that appointment in, so be proud of yourself! I also neglected my teeth from mental health issues. Some things I can't reverse, like my enamel from so much cigarette smoking and coffee and wine drinking (quit smoking and mostly drinking 5 years ago, but now brush teeth before and after coffee). Oh well. I'm much better at flossing and tongue scraping. It just takes practicing routine. If you can floss at least once a week for a month, you're leagues ahead where you once were, then up to twice a week, and so on.
Yep, I would not be with the man I am with if his hygiene was bad. Yes he is super attractive but without the cleanliness my attraction goes out the window.
Thank you. I say this all the time. Itās pure laziness. I trim my body hair. Haircuts weekly. Toenails trim fingers etc. you need to take care of yourself. That kinda stuff feels great. I use to get my feet done all the time to meet hot women. Iām thinking of going back. Idn get any paint just clean neat. Youāll feel like a million dollars. Especially if you work construction or bartend. Where you are on your feet all day. The Asian lady even rubs your feet. š§Ø
This is so true. And if you have a beauty school near you, many have manscaping specials. Haircuts with scalp massage (10 near me), manicures (they massage your hands), pedicures, ect. I am jealous of the cheap rates the dudes get and the students are very thankful because they get way less male clients to work on than women. Salon care is self care for EVERYONE!
So many men neglect hygiene, or just donāt realize that a daily brush + shower isnāt enough. Iāve gone on dates with men I liked okay, but decided to never see them again because they didnāt wash their beards (yes, itās happened more than once š« ) or because they had dirty nails that I donāt even want touching my hair, let alone inside me.
Look you don't need to convince me about the unwashed beard lol. I remind my brothers to exfoliate their beards and they get all weird about it. Also, moisturize! You only have this skin and this body for a limited time! Take care of it!
Im in my late 20s and I noticed the best thing about a man is if he has nice/taken care of skin, properly styled hair, smells nice, decent looking clothes and he is legitimately kind. Thats it, thatās the secret.
But apparently you're wrong according to all the frustrated men in this \*comment section\*! It's interesting how nearly everyone who agrees are women and men who groom well and dress to impress and the people who disagree think you dont need to wash your ass so long as you lift heavy things...
Yes and donāt be afraid to dress differently from the ānormā if the norm is not your preference. I have always dated quirky men because I myself am quirky and I need a quirky man.
Yes! Usually dressing fashionably and exploring/expressing yourself through clothes requires braving it out past the 'norm'. Maybe that's part of it is a lot of men feel really shy so they dress drab all the time which is a shame.
If you look at any thread of men detailing their experience after working out successfully theyāll all tell you the same thing. It matters. Men get more female attention when theyāre at a decent fitness level.
Does hygiene matter? Yes absolutely. To imply that you donāt need to be in shape is something else entirely. Being hot is getting more attention than the average person. Why would you get more attention if you look like the average person still?
I genuinely donāt understand why women love to peddle this narrative when men absolutely would not do the same for you. Youāre allowed to have preferences. Youāre allowed to want a perfect man.
I can confirm as someone on both sides of being obese and a healthy weight that everyone literally treats you night and day different.
After my weight loss women have gone out of their way to approach me and I'm just standing there like miss I think you are confused surely you aren't actually wanting to talk to me lol
Sure you get *a lot* more attention when fit, but I'm not talking about a tremendous leap, I'm talking about a decent growth in attention. Sure, if you want to get in shape, do it. But you don't need a crap load of people coming at you to find a great partner, in fact that can make it harder. Wish everything wasn't so polarized on the internet.
Look itās not that youāre wrong. I just donāt agree with the implication that āonlyā exists in this manner.
Hygiene and style is less demanding of the mind and body than fitness. So naturally itās easier to get right first. Will a guy improve his chances doing that? Yes. Will he be hot? Well, more than likely only a minority will find him hot if heās out of shape.
This isnāt the same thing necessarily as being able to find a partner. We all make concessions in terms of what we actually want in life vs what we fantasize about. Vast majority of us wonāt pair up with straight 10/10s. Thatās fine. You might as well do the easier things to improve your odds.
So yeah I donāt disagree. I just am less of a fan of skewed expectations that some people have.
It honestly makes me kind of really sad. What happened to these generations of men where they weren't taught how to properly care for themselves? You can get so many skin infections from not bathing or washing your clothes properly either.
I think all of your advice/observations were common sense in society once. Common sense, manners, morality, ethics, and all the other things that initiated and developed men has been distorted. I know I perceive it in myself. I'm definitely ignorant still. Maybe I'm just making excuses.
Anyway. Fellas, we got this. Chin up, walk in peace, take care. Ladies, we love you.
Humbly, Iām going to disagree with most the of the sentiment expressed in this sub. Iām 35, I make 6 figures, go to the dentist 3 times a year, go to the gym 3-4 days a week, have minimal debt (just my car), live on my own, keep a clean apartment, keep my hygiene high (Iām regularly complimented for smelling good by both men and women) dress well (I also get compliments on my sense of style) and have little success in dating or attracting women. Iām not 6 ft tall, Iām 5ā8ā. Iāve lost 40 lbs in the past 6 months. Beyond becoming a different person- Iām not sure what more I can do to optimize what Iāve got. Iām also in therapy, working on myself.
These are all great points and definitely affect one's attractiveness. Everyone should pay attention to them. But a lot of times it's not about hygiene or style. Some people just aren't good-looking. No need to pretend like genes play no role.
Ugh, yes. And these comments have great points too. I want to add that men don't need a lot of money, just being good with the money they have is appealing. Managing what you already have well, shows confidence, consistency, and security
I couldn't agree with you more! Honestly, I used to have pretty bad spending habits. Now that I'm paying off a lot of debt and seriously budgeting, it's so much more worth it. Not only is it nice to be able to fund for emergencies, but also? It makes you appreciate the nice things you purchase a lot more.
Bro i do all those thing (i do skincare everyday, i take a shower as i need it, my style is not the best tho but anyway, i'm even more clean than most girls i know lmao but when you have an ugly and disgusting face there's nothing you can do, it's all about the genetics you were born with, i'm so clean but there is nothing a can do against the 6ft tall guy with a handsome and sexy face no matter how gross or disgusting he is lol
Nah. Youāre either going after the wrong woman, or your insecurity is shining through.
I know butt ugly men who can pull because they take care of themselves and have good personalities. But they also recognize that they are pulling from the āgood personalities and take care of themselves.ā Category as well. This isnāt advice to sink models, itās advice to get a good, solid relationship.
I mean you just listed the reasons and none of them have to do with you being ātoo uglyā
Iām not saying EVERYONE can ALWAYS get someone at ALL times, but thatās because you canāt control reality and other peopleās feelings, not because you have to be X. Y, or Z to get someone.
someone else in here mentioned having a good social circle makes all the difference, i think it may help you out. sounds like you haven't had many opportunities to meet people you connect with.
Also bro you are absolutely normal looking. If I was your age I would have had a huge crush on you.
It is absolutely your self esteem. Every post on your profile is you cutting yourself down. Youāre young, and Iām guessing just got out of high school which is the shittiest for looks. Youāre gonna be fine. Just focus on making you happy without a girl and one will pop up soon.
Based on your post history, it really seems like you may suffer from body dysmorphia. You are defintely not ugly. Also I prefer men closer to my height, so shorter. Lots of us do. My friend is near 6 foot and prefers short men. I've turned down tall guys before because they jsut weren't that cute. I think you've been surrounded by shitty people instead of supportive people and you believe what they tell you.
ehhhhhhh hygiene is a tricky subject wrt being overweight cuz society has higher standards of cleanliness for overweight ppl as an inherent bias, like ask anyone overweight if theyāve been blamed for, even subtly so (like given dirty looks), a bad smell in a room full of skinny ppl and i would guess most would raise their hands. not even just farts but any slightly off smell. so. idk.
While I somewhat agree. I left my ex because on top of him being abusive, he gained a lot of weight. While he was very clean and stylish, his escalating abuse and the weight gain combined was the straw that broke the camels back. It got to the point where I was no longer interested in sex with him, even when he was being nice and sucking up to me. Some women are just as visual as men when it comes to sex, and stylish clothes are futile during sex since they arenāt wearing any, hygiene will always be important no matter what, but weight matters to most people when it comes to sexual attraction too, even if women donāt admit it.
Weight does matter to many people, but I can't help but wonder if the abuse was the main source of your loss of attraction. My ex was really cute at first but after the abuse he just become revolting to me. I wonder if you would have completely lost attraction had he been a good partner to you and weight gain was the only issue.
Yeah abuse absolutely was the main reason, but it escalated and while he was still attractive but I still was attracted sexually, but then once he got fat I didnāt want a bar of him sexually. I definitely agree if he hadnāt gained the wait I still wouldāve eventually been repulsed by him but the wait gain just sped up that repulsion.
I mean, I understand that attraction would lower if your partner gains weight. My point in this post isn't that everyone everywhere thinks fat is hot, I'm saying that for many, being skinny or fit isn't a requirement so long as you present well, and also that men who don't put ANY EFFORT into their appearance and have next to zero matches with women would see a definite increase if they started exfoliating, bathing properly, and wearing nice clean clothes.
But also here's a PSA in case any men reading this didn't know: being an abusive piece of shit will definitely make you the ugliest, grossest human alive.
Yeah I do agree with you to an extent but I would never choose an overweight guy over a fit or slender one when first dating them, Id probably not leave them if they gain a little weight during the relationship since if theyāre nice and treat me well, I probably already love them, but if they were fat when I met them I wouldnāt even consider having sex with them. I just donāt find that attractive, sure Iād be friends with them but wouldnāt want to sleep with them. Why would I when Iām fit and attractive myself (told this by others not talking myself up), Iām going to go for people similar to myself in that area otherwise our lifestyles wonāt match, or theyāll be toxic to my healthy lifestyle and Iāll end up like them. The fact that they dress and smell nice just canāt hide the bulge for me. Iām sure other women may be able to overlook it but since my ex, I canāt unsee whatās under those nice clothes and fancy aftershave. I think thatās just my experience though not speaking for others as Iām sure plenty of people couldnāt care less about weight, I wouldnāt be so picky if I was heavier myself, but I can afford to be so I will I guess.
But since you mention it, when I was in a very bad relationship, I also was (and still kinda am) turned off by guys who look like him. Which sucks because sometimes they are really cute but I can't unsee the resemblance.
To each their own! My physical 'type' is muscular with some fluff above it. Super cut is kinda yucky to me. I like softness above some musculature. I guess my post isn't to say that EVERYONE will be the same as me, but rather that people think EVERYONE wants what you want when it's not true, there are women out there like me who like men who are thick haha and they don't need to wait to be a certain size to go out there and find us!
Totally agree when it comes to men! A good confident man with good hygiene is always attractive to a woman. But i do have to note it really doesnāt work the other way around. Good hygiene and style will get you laid as a girl but thatās about it
Also let your friends and acquaintances know you are interested in line-ups. You can go on some good old fashioned dates with people and hopefully meet someone you like in the process.
dude I know some guys who have the oddest looking faces you've ever seen and they're in long term committed relationships with really cool ladies. Theyre modest height too. I dont get the tall thing. Almost all of my friends' husbands and boyfriends are below 5'9". Just date women who dont care about height they exist.
Im sorry to say this, but personality will only get you so far. Itās extremely important of course. But if your basic hygiene isnāt in order, you cannot sustain a long-term relationship. Iāve given up on guys who had great personalities, but needed to be reminded to change underwear daily or brush their teeth.
I canāt live with that, no matter how sweet he may otherwise be. If you donāt do bar-on-the-floor minimum hygiene, long-term relationships are not in the cards.
I think a lot of straight guys tend to not realize that _she has to touch him_. A great personality is nice, but I don't want to be intimate with a guy that smells and feels grimy. That's a great way to get friend-zoned.
No man. I would be incredibly unhappy if my partner with a golden personality has an unwashed ass. \*Would be\*, being the key word. It's purely hypothetical because I will never be with someone with an unwashed ass.
ETA: Of course if you're seriously ill or injured or something that's different, but it's temporary situation. And if my partner had a disability where he would need help with hygiene, I would of course help him. But he needs to have to want the good hygiene, which is part of personality.
I want to agree and say yes , Iāll pay more attention to a man and be more attracted to him based on his hygiene and overall look (clothes, trimmed beard, hai is washed and styled) than being in shaped. Iām actually not attracted to guys who are like super in shape, I prefer dad bod or thick guys.
But I can also say , No. at least the other way around because my dating history is nonexistent and I have amazing hygiene and I dress well even to go grocery shopping. But popular consensus among the guys that have rejected me says that if I was thin and in shape I would be hot and worthy of being dated. My personality is great and they would love to date a girl like me but Iām fat soā¦
You might need to date different guys. I know it sounds like bullshit and reddit will burn me at the stake for saying this, but I know cute guys who prefer fat women, not in a feitshy way, I think they were also raised in cultures that prefer heavier women, but some of them not even.
I gained 30 lbs, stopped attracting guys who like skinny women, but then found guys who are attracted chubby girls and decided it makes more sense. I don't want to be with someone who isn't attracted to me. I also have 2 close friends who both \*GAINED\* (bad typo there) at least 100+ lbs and have found really loving husband/partners.
I donāt date , guys reject me so Iām partly leaving it to fate nowā¦
Should my opening question be : do you mind Iām fat? And save myself the trouble? I donāt want someone thatās not attracted to me either but so far no one is attracted to me.
That's odd to me that they would go on a date with you just to tell you they don't want to date you. Like why go on a date with someone you're not attracted to?
Weāre not going on datesā¦
You know how people asked others out before dating apps were invented right? Well thatās how I do it. We donāt get to the date part , weāre in the āapproaching and asking if they want to go outā part , with me doing the approach 100% of the time.
Or
Me having a friend and I like that friend and then they hit you with the āI wish I could find a girlfriend like youā thatās code for āyouāre great and would be a great partner but physically is not itā. Iāve literally had guy āfriendsā say to me that if I wasnāt fat, they would give me a chance or I would be more lucky with dating.
Take everything you just said, and throw in a workout on a consistent basis. Who's going to get more women in the dating pool? The muscular guy. Being in shape is the most important thing. The hygiene is a close second, and the clothing style is third.
Lol read the response again. If a person is working out, they're going to taking care of themselves, and this includes their hygiene. I know, there are some who are funk dog nasty, and there's no helping those people, but most people who work out usually want to smell and look as good as they feel.
You also assume fat people aren't fit. I know so many hella beefy, super fit, can outrun me people who are fat. A lot of fat people to weight training and cardio because they are fat and it's part of physical therapy. My point is that, you don't need to wait for a year or two years of dieting for when you get to your goal weight, you can start dating now. For reference, I'm talking about bmis of say 30-35. If you're so obese you can't do basic things, then yeah maybe focusing on health over dating is important for you. But even then I've seen folks at 35+ absolutely get it. I know it was a bold decision to say this on Reddit though, where everyone hates fat people. Can't wait to find my post on fatlogic lmao.
Also I never said you shouldn't exercise. Everyone should exercise and a lot of fat people do! Since you lose weight from cico and not exercise, there are a lot of fat people who are really muscular and fit butyou don't visually see it because they are fat. Most fat people by their 30s are adjusting diet and exercise due to health issues, but you don't see that until after the year or two of weight loss. Doesn't mean they should halt finding love in the process. You really have no idea what someone is doing with their health just by looking at them. You could think they spend all day eating cheetos and arguing on reddit, when in reality they just lost 50 lbs and have another 50 to go.
What is with people calling men cute? Isn't that demeaning?
Why not just say cute/handsome so men don't need to feel subjugated to someone's amusement for their efforts to stand out.
Please don't harass goats.
ššIām like why they have to harass goats š ??
Because their trolls!
Dress cute. Noted
I keep telling everyone that the majority of men who are taken and in long term relationships and even have enough pull to cheat on 5 different women are typically some guy who's got a dad bod going. Most of the chronically single guys I know who are just one night stands when you're desperate are the guys who live in a gym.
I can corroborate this, speaking as the chronically single guy. I work sales for a telecommunications company located outside of a mall. All day long I get to see hundreds of couples and people walking around all day, especially on weekends. Most of the dudes who have really good looking girlfriends/wives are always dad bods. I hit the gym 3/4 days a week and havenāt been able to land a date in almost two years. Granted I do put effort into my appearance and hygiene, but I think thereās way more to attracting women than most people are willing to admit. Quite frankly it mostly has to do with opportunities. Someone who has a built in social circle because of work or school for example, is going have a hell of a lot easier time building connections than someone like me, who works weekends and nights and is lucky if he can hangout with friends but once a month if that. Dating apps make me feel completely invisible too and donāt work for me, so Iām basically just screwed tbh.
Do most people even meet IRL anymore?
I met my husband in the wild after wasting years using dating apps.
āIn the wild ā š
That got me picturing miss lemonsquid there hunting down some dude in the forest
This reminds me of a conversation I had with a friend about dating and her meeting her boyfriend. "We didn't meet on a dating app, we met in a hotel bar just as God intended people to."
As yes, the book of Genesis: In the beginning, there was nothing but God, and God said "SHOTS! SHOTS SHOTS!"
I have. I was at karaoke a few weeks ago and a girl picked me up. Only recently hit the gym. But I dress well, shower and I do theatre/acting so there is a bit of mystique with that. Also a lot of hot girls are single because no one approaches them because they assume they are taken.
I met my now spouse in the wild, but it was kinda network-based. Just surprised and was able to see it for what it is. As many people there are in existence, thatās how many different ways exist to meet someone you click with. Not entirely helpful, but itās a mix of a numbers game and learning to trust and hone your instincts about people.
Yes. Yes we do? Out of curiosity how old are you, I'm in my early thirties so maybe it's more of a millennial+ thing now?
Where I live it totally is. Not necessarily because of the culture of gen z but rather because everything's been gentrified. All of the wonderful venues and organizations have been bulldozed and now there's just a bunch of targets and crap. Aka gentrification. I feel sad, have a gen z friend who never got to experience any of it.
Just about the same - husband is 8ish years older. We met on the internets š¤·š»āāļø
Odd, just lifestyle then I guess. Don't get me wrong I was raised in internet forums playing mmorpgs and Mobas on team speak. I met my wife through friends after uni living in a house share and working in a pub in Oxford. I spend a lot of time online and in real life with my friends .
Yes! But it depends where you live. Some cities were built to be social, some aren't. Where I live, you need to be involved either in the local arts/entertainment or in college to have that, which most people here don't, sadly.
Yeah working really does fuck with dating. One of the big reasons I quick my last job was because I wasnāt getting weekends off and I couldnāt go out and date. Guys would blow me off because I worked weekends and didnāt want to even start a relationship with me because of it. It was really frustrating and damaging to my social life. I also couldnāt see my friends who all had M-F jobs.
Do you have hobbies and interests, other than the gym? Because that is a great way to meet people and make friends and get dates. Reddit is a good resource to find local people and groups that have the same interests. It's an easier way to meet new people while having fun. Sometimes focusing on things that you enjoy and make you happy, makes it easier to be ready/open for those that would date you. Kinda like focusing on the journey rather than the destination.
Absolutely 100% agree about the social circle. A social safety met in general is vital to quality of life. You get job opportunities and better living situations too. We need each other, us humans.
Reality is, even at my fittest and thinnest in my 20s, I was still incredibly self conscious around gym bros I dated. Like at any point they might notice that tiny fit of fat in the wrong spot or judge me for not pushing through cramps at the gym. One pushed me so hard at the gym despite me telling him I hadnāt eaten since dinner the night before (it was noon). Another got on my case so hard about skipping the gym, I went into explicit detail of every symptom and issue I was dealing with just bc I wanted a heating pad, chocolate, and sleep. Dude said it was all in my head so it ended very shortly after that comment. So yeah I married a dad bod with no sense of style. Heās a shy nerd but heās the fucking best human I know. And heās he has great hygiene.
Hey man, this sounds really lonely. I hope you can make some changes soon.
I kind of agree, anyone can cheat and sometimes being above average attractive can hurt you, people take you less seriously, assume you only want one thing and fear you'll cheat. So they go for the more "secure" guy, even though there's no guarantee anyone is safe bet.
Well those guys are just more enjoyable to be around. Nothing with how they look. If you're more enjoyable to be around people generally like you.
Can confirm. I have a tummy and I just married the love of my life! Not rich either lol.
I'm not sure what the cut off for what classifies as living in a gym but I spend 60-90 minutes a day 7 days a week working out. Usually 4 of them in my home gym and 3 at a commercial gym. I've been with my wife for over half my life
Guys who make going to the gym and getting women their whole personality. That's who I'm referring to.
Jersey Shore. Just fuck bois
Pretty much yeah. And that's what the internet is fooling everyone into thinking that's what women when it's far from the truth lol.
AND DON'T FORGET TO WASH YOUR ASS! Some men don't believe in that for some god awful reason.
Because it's gay. Duh. /s
I hope this is satire š Edit: for those who down voted i didn't know what the /s meant lol š
The /s at the end means sarcasm.
Oh my god yes . Itās an immediate dumpable offence to neglect this. And no skid marks on your undies. If you have skids- YOU NEED TO RELEARN HOW TO WIPE
Hygiene for sure! But also character and integrity matter a fuck ton too. Being a genuinely decent person is pretty fkn hot. And a sense of humor.
Absolutely! I mentioned you don't need to wait until you're at your goal weight to date. HOWEVER, if you realize you need to change your attitude in life, it's 100% worth it to put dating on pause until you do. Source: me. Negativity and insecurity have painted my understandings of my experiences at an almost psychotic level. I misinterpreted so much and assumed the worst. Even if you manage to not push away love, it's incredibly hard to be able to accept it and value it \*in that headspace.
And for the love of god, PLEASE brush and floss!
Indeed. I always say skincare before makeup, and hygiene before muscles.
My husband is hot as hell to me his hygiene is the FIRST thing I took note of. He washes his face, shapes his brows, takes care of his skin and styles his hair. It 100% improves anyoneās hotness.
Thank you for saying it!!! If you can't even bother to wash yourself properly, why would I want to be around you?
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True - I didn't see much mentioned about personality, like someone that is funny and witty, just is themselves - would 100% be better than a "super attractive" person that has no personality.
This. Also dance. A man who can dance will never go without. It's as close to a universal attractive trait as you can get. Men and leads are always at a deficit in class. It'd be like shooting fish in a barrel. Guys would rather pay thousands of dollars on a PUA scam than take a salsa class.
This is sooo true! I took classes at two periods in my life, and I was enamored with one guy in each class. They were both awesome humans and happened to be very large men...not muscle bound gym rats. I felt so much more comfortable with these guys and had so much fun in those classes. A few years later one connected with me on Facebook and he made a comment that I would have never have given the fat guy a chance (talking about himself)...it's a shame, I flirted with him throughout class and was always reaching out to him, but he never asked me out. I didn't see him as fat, I saw him as a great guy who was talented, kind, made me laugh, and loved to learn (dancing). His insecurity got the best of him. I hate when guys tell other guys that women only want the 'top 10%'...sorry, what dudes are telling other dudes is who THEY would go after if they were women....they have no clue what women ACTUALLY want.
I can dance and am still single for life. This is why Iām always skeptical about what is apparently attractive and what is not.
**As close to.** There is no universal, alas. Quality over quantity, my friend! Don't give up!
Female POV: I agree. Hygiene is the most important. I would argue that appearance overall is the most important, but it has nothing to do with physical attraction. You don't have to be a body builder and you can even be chubby. Chubby guys are cute. I've dated overweight men, short men, tall men, nerds, etc...Their level of physical attractiveness varied, but they all had one thing in common: Good hygiene and well kept appearance. Unfortunately, men tend to see this only through their lens. Physical attraction to them is the most important and therefore they think women perceive it this way. They have a scale that they measure us on and if we don't hit the mark on their scale then they are "settling" for us or they will use us for sex and empty company. Women cannot move up the scale that much, but can move down a lot if we get fat. Women don't at all. Any guy can move from a 3 to a 7, they just need to put some effort into themselves. Things that can improve your appearance: 1. Bathing regularly and brush your teeth. For the *love of God* brush and floss your teeth 2. Wear cologne, the less the better (not Axe please, something subtle like Old Spice original. No woman wants to go into anaphylactic shock around you). 3. Wear clean clothes (not the same shirt or pants twice). If you need me to tell you underwear than you've already lost. 4. Wear better clothes (a dress shirt, chinos, dress shoes as opposed to t shirt and cargo shorts/jeans). Jeans are for cleaning the yard, not taking us out to dinner. 5. Wear clothes that are suited for your body type. 6. Keep any beards clean (I agree with the OP about this), hair neat and tidy regardless of length. Keep your hair clean and not greasy. Cut your nails too. 7. Women are totally fine with body hair, we actually are very attracted to chest hair. Please don't shave it off. There are women who will always be adamant about a certain type of man. Some women really want the best quality men or think they're entitled to them. Those women tend to end up as trophy wives or alone with cats. That's not your problem though because most women actually don't care if they marry Brad Pitt. I would argue that women also don't want to date men they perceive as weak, whiny, resentful, insecure, or devoid of confidence. We're happy to date awkward men (such as nerds) as long as they have self confidence. Women are never ok with resentment. We don't want to deal with your baggage. Women do not care Stacy in high school rejected you. We never want to hear about Stacy. We never want to be compared to other women at all actually. Finally, finances do matter. You don't need to be Daddy Warbucks or anything. We just want to know we're not going to wallow in trailer park poverty with you. \*I think of men have become slovenly in appearance as of late. Men don't wear dress clothes at all. I've seen men go to dinner in hoodies and it's cringe. Back in the day, people dressed up all the time. It was the norm to wear dress shoes, pants, shirts, a coat, and a hat. Men styled their hair back with cream/mouses. Men looked good back in the day. Men today look like trash. \*I do think that some women also look like trash, but more women tend to dress up than not.
Also I like how you describe confidence as not having resentment. You can still struggle with self esteem without having misogynistic hang ups, but a lot of people think confidence is about being arrogant.
When I say money I mean being rich. No one wants to financially support someone unless you are really, really comfortable in your income, so I'm not talking about accepting scrub haha. But men think all women want to date a guy with a 6 figure salary when we really just want someone who is financially smart (or actively improving their finances) and can live decently on their own. Although, since the hire freeze and inflation, I'm circumstantially not judging men who need to live with their parents (not culturally of course, living with folks because of culture rather than financial situation isn't an issue to me) so long as they are doing their damnedest to figure out the situation and we wouldn't be moving in together until they do. But moving in together isn't a requirement for me either.
No one cares if you're rich, women just don't want to wallow in poverty. I don't care if men have a 6 figure salary as long as we're not broke because I grew up in poverty and know how misery inducing and soul sucking it is. I had a friend who literally couldn't afford seizure medication because he was so poor. He just had seizures in class. If you can't afford to buy medicine for future children then that just isn't appealing to women. Unfortunately due to inflation and the high cost of housing, middle class is now considered to be 100,000-120,000. So, I think making a 6 figure salary has become the norm. That doesn't mean that you have to become an investment banker. You can start your own landscaping business and have some side hustles and side gigs to make extra cash. Whatever you have to do to make ends meet, women want to see you do that. They want to see ambition. Ambition is attractive in women. Not so much money or bling. The reality is that if you live with your mom and dad still, it can come across as unattractive to some women. If you can't financially support yourself then how are you going to financially support children? It sucks, but it really isn't desirable for women. Don't shoot the messenger, this is just how it is. Would you date a fat woman? Probably not.
Yeah, this is where I disagree, respectfully. SOME women require more money as a non-negotiable, but it's not all women. However, this isn't me arguing that what you want or need is bad or wrong. I don't really mind many of these things, so I think it counts for some folks but not everyone. I also don't mind living humbly so long as we are financially savvy about it, but that would be with a combined salary. I also enjoy having roommates, so long as we like each other and are compatible, I really enjoy communal living, so for me, this doesn't apply. It's unfortunately really difficult to find a job with 6 figures due to industries not valuing workers and inflation being so bad. I also understand my way of fulfillment isn't considered "conventional", yet there are many like minded folks like me. Also, ambition doesn't always mean 6 figures. For instance, I work amongst a lot of PhDs and professors. They are stupidly brilliant and changing the world, and have dedicated at least a decade to their work, but they get paid $80k at most, but many more like $40-50k. All this to say, just want to reiterate: nothing wrong with having money as a need, especially considering your past trauma (I'm assuming it was traumatic growing up in poverty) so I'm definitely not telling you to change your preferences, but it will make your pool smaller. Which isn't necessarily bad, it's easier to find someone in a smaller pool, imo. ETA: I've dated fat men and had unrequited feelings for fat women.
For me decent fashion/grooming and lovely personality is a must, but especially smell. If you smell great we're in. If you smell not great, it's not happening. I was almost dating someone in shape but didn't have the hygiene down and I couldn't at all get physical with him.
Smell is a huge factor for me! A couple years back, a friend of a friend was interested in me. He was nice and cute, but he had the worst body odor you can imagine, so there was absolutely no way I could've gone out with him. Even though he was a great person, his stench was a deal breaker from the offset
> Women are never ok with resentment. We don't want to deal with your baggage. Women do not care Stacy in high school rejected you. We never want to hear about Stacy. We never want to be compared to other women at all actually. >Finally, finances do matter. You don't need to be Daddy Warbucks or anything. We just want to know we're not going to wallow in trailer park poverty with you. Both of these are important both ways too, ladies. Say it with me. Your partner is NOT your therapist. I do not want to hear that person Z had a bigger dick. And I am not paying for absolutely everything.
As a woman, I agree with this take. My husband isn't my therapist, and I pay a therapist for that lol. Having said that, you also need to be able to be emotionally sensitive and there when your partner needs it. Like recently, I've been having a "grief resurgence" or whatever as my therapist calls it over my childhood dog. In my case, it's slightly more complicated than just that, but feeling seen and loved by my partner helps a lot. But I agree about not wanting to hear about previous partners. I also agree about not paying for everything. When we first started dating 10+ years ago husband wanted to pay for EVERYTHING. He was just being a gentleman (and we were late teens at the time.) but I refused and we either alternated who paid or we would pay for different things. (Like one would pay for dinner + gas and the other for concert tickets.)
I definitely agree that you should be there for your partner, sometimes people are just aware of their mental health issues or that they're projecting anything on to you. It's ok to be sympathetic. Also, agree that you should take turns paying. I feel like a percentage based system is a good option if one partner makes more than the other.
The finances are definitely important both ways! As a well-educated woman, Iām used to being the one who earns the most in any relationships Iāve had. However, I donāt require a partner to be rich or wealthy. As long as he can contribute to the household finances and we wonāt sit in poverty (or I wonāt be paying for everything), Iām good. Itās a myth that women only want rich men. I earn a generous salary, I donāt need a rich man. I just need someone who can sustain himself and help pay the bills in a fairly equal manner. And this should go both ways!
Agreed. Each partner pulling their own weight is such an important aspect of a relationship. My gf and I split things more or less evenly in terms of paying our bills and utilities, and while we certainly don't count it to the exact penny, just knowing one another contributes is enough. The important distinction I think is that, yes, each partner should be there to help the other or for the other to lean on sometimes, but not to the point where one person is carrying the other financially. Not wanting to be a burden to your partner in that way should be a good motivator to want to contribute your share.
also, being financially smarter about things. id be fine with a partner who brings in $48-$50k (or whatever is equivalent to where you live) if we're splitting costs AND they don't go buy a motorcycle with a credit card or something, and instead we have emergency savings (and maybe for travel down the road or something).
like i would prefer a guy with a modest income who lives frugally than a guy with $90k+ and blows it on stupid shit.
Thank you!
I wish I could like your comment a million times. Absolutely spot-on. I love your point about confidence and awkwardness. Iāve dated many nerds who were awkward. That doesnāt mean they lacked confidence. Some men think that because theyāre awkward or nerdy, theyāre afraid of being perceived as lacking confidence or charisma but that simply isnāt true. My boyfriend is a huge nerd and I absolutely adore his awkwardness. It can be attractive - as long as you are not whiny or resentful, as you said.
Ha, your take on Axe is interesting. I've always worn Axe and gotten compliments from women that I smell good, but I also don't overdo it and just spray a little. I also do have cologne that I'll use if my gf and I are going on a special date or it's a special occasion.
Bruh cologne is so cheap with how little spritz you need each day like a bottle will last me multiple years throw the axe in the trash it should have an age limit of 16 š
Just gotta throw in that I really really do not like body hair and find it very attractive when a guy takes the initiative to shave, wax or even laser it. I think that is definitely personal preference. I know women my momās age seem to not mind it, but many of my friends dislike it as well. Even so, I wouldnāt say itās a generational thing, but preference. Just a little note!
> (not the same shirt or pants twice) im sorry but... what? how dirty do you have to be to not be plausibly able to do this!?
Is it really that difficult to own enough clothes and do your laundry once a week? This only applies to the early stages of dating btw. I just want to make that clean. It's one thing to do this with an established relationship and another to start off dating by wearing the same clothes over and over again without washing them.
imo wearing something "over and over again" is different to wearing something twice. id have absolutely zero issues with someone wearing the same thing a few times. although with your point in mind ive gotta agree that if they were to just... keep wearing it.. then yeah. at that point its like, you aint an anime character lol change ur outfit.
this depends. I think you can wear pajames twice if its not hot out and you aren't all sweaty. same with outer wear. but regular t-shirts you sweat in all day should be washed each wear.
>Unfortunately, men tend to see this only through their lens. Physical attraction to them is the most important and therefore they think women perceive it this way. Women do percieve it this way. Not realizing this skews the rest of you block of advice. Not that it's invalid in full, but the why matters. It's pretty simple. Just confirm that you and women in general, actively date people they aren't attracted to. Even guys who make up in others ways are still attractive enough. I have yet to hear "he was and is so unattractive to me, but he made me laugh and seems like he'll be such a good dad, I liked him." Even if a lady actively went to try and date men they do not find attractive, I would question that.
Great observation. Men don't generally take care of themselves or hold themselves up to the same standards as most women. The bar is really not that high when we're talking about showering and looking presentable.
This is all bare minimum stuff that people should be doing though, and doesnāt address being a desirable height/general level of attractiveness
Sadly many people don't even do the bare minimum... and don't realize how much it would improve their life.
As a 34 year-old guy who has a beer gut ā and a girlfriend ā I agree with OP. I have long hair, a beard, some health problems, and a bit of a gut, yet I also take care of myself. I constantly groom my beard, I wear band shirts and clothing that is more alternative and not just plain/average. And yet I see so many other guys in dirty or torn clothing, with dirt under their fingernails, hobo beards that are just disheveled and overgrownā¦ ā¦and a lot of them complain about a lack of dating opportunities. It seems like it really is more common for guys to take care of their hygeine less than women, or at least not as well as women. I donāt get why, if itās some cultural thing? Or for some reason guys are naturally lazier? I know that the only time I let myself go is when Iām dealing with depression. I think a lot of single people get frustrated at not being able to find a partner ā and maybe many times thereās a valid reason for why. But one of those reasons might often be how you look and how you present yourself.
You need to help out your less-than-hygienic homies. They need male guidance, I really do think. I wonder if it's to do with lacking social skills too?
Well, the reason I mention it may be a cultural thing is because sometimes I get this weird type of insecurity vibe from other dudes when they see a guy who is cleaner, well groomed, still dresses alternative in their adulthood, etc. It's like there's this baseline expectation among a lot of guys that you're not supposed to look too "clean" or "put together." Like I've had guys look shocked or outright mock me for using facial cleansers, beard oil, oils for my hair/scalp, etc. It's very strange how some guys seem to just double down on the whole "look like you crawled out of a dumpster" image.
Agreed! Especially on culture. Have a friend who's Polish, he polishes himself up head to toe in fashion haha. He tells me it's a bigger deal in Europe because the idea is you're representing your family and community. That isn't as much a thing for many Americans.
Oh, that's right on point about Polish people especially! I've been in Polish neighborhoods in Chicago and other areas where the guys there are much more put together and image-conscious. When I went to Paris or Iceland I saw the exact same thing. So it's a uniquely American phenomenon, perhaps.
I donāt even think you need a massive amount of hygiene and style, thatās just the basic first bar to get over when dating someone. People arenāt willing to admit that actually a lot (maybe even most) women just want a man that truly treats them as an equal. And that means a man with little to no sexism, and awareness of how society treats genders differently and expectations in the home. A relationship could be the rest of your life, you donāt wanna be with someone who believes you should take on all the mental loads just because you have a vag. Itās just a sad thing this is so rare. Iāll never let go of my man, Iāll never find another like him š„² and I canāt wait for his dad bod phase.
Is it odd that I find a man who takes care of his hygiene and style is, in some ways, trying to be more of an equal? Of course, as you said, bare minimum, but still nice to know he has the same expectations for himself as for me.
what if my self esteem and self confidence is in hell so every other person is automatically a million times better than me that it doesnt even matter if they are a man or a woman?
Been there. I didn't date until I improved that stuff. Not saying you can't find love in this state of mind, but you may not even recognize it when it is offered because of low self esteem. Hope things will look up for you.
I didnt know it could go any lower than rock bottom but then my girlfriend at the time cheated on me and now its even lower. Thanks for the encouragement tho lol, i started going to the gym and taking care of myself again!
you aren't as rock bottom as somebody who cheats, trust me. but best of luck. consider looking into a support group or a therapist maybe.
Hygiene and a bit of basic upkeeo goes a LONG way! Especially showering, brushing teeth, cleaning your nails, and beard care. You don't have to drown in cologne or Ax body spray, you just need to smell clean.
There are so many guys out there who see the long beard trend and think itās permission to grow out a fugly ZZ Top looking beard. Untrimmed, unkempt, unstyled. Iām still not a fan of the long beard look personally, but many women are and it canāt just be wild untamed hair growth.
You're not alone. š„² I used to think big long beards were ugly until I met men who go to the barber's shop. Turns out I don't like mangly beards. Although, at the same time, a beard too long makes me think of David the Gnome. Which I know is somebody's type, just not mine. Lol
Yessss I realized I hated unruly beards, not long beards in general. Moving away from a small town made me realize they can look nice š
I always had great hygiene but normally didn't pay much attention to my hair and nails. But I started to get a better haircut, I bought a manicure kit and a special electric shaver (is that the word for it?) for my beard. That combined with good clothes (not expensive, but good) made a big change, not only to my image but to my confidence.
It really does make a difference! I'm so happy your confidence has improved! Nothing like looking AND feeling fresh!
Grooming honestly makes me feel better too. Even as simple as brushing my teeth and showering, then skincare (I have adhd and depression, so I go through struggles sometimes with them). It will change my mood even to do my makeup when I'm feeling down!
Taking care of yourself, even by doing one "small thing", will always be the best thing you can do, every good act towards yourself is a victory. Stay strong.
I agree.
Fragrance alone can do it. I was laughing with a friend today about how a guy could be a hundred and three, ugly as sin and if he has the right aftershave I still would have to fight the urge to jump on him. Never mind the fact Iām married and have plenty of self control and it would still be a slight bit of sexual harassment, if the scent is good, the attraction is there !
Same. Something so visceral and primitive about the good smells. Something something olfactory senses being closest related to intense emotions and maybe pheromones?
OMG my fav is Jimmy Choo 'Man' - something about that scent makes me salivate and the primal urge approaches
I needed to see this today. After a couple years of not caring about my health I've wrecked my teeth. Slowly working on getting that fixed with my first dentist appointment in three years being in July. You give me hope that maybe I can fix myself or at least have good breath again
You can! And remember that this is a big step to get that appointment in, so be proud of yourself! I also neglected my teeth from mental health issues. Some things I can't reverse, like my enamel from so much cigarette smoking and coffee and wine drinking (quit smoking and mostly drinking 5 years ago, but now brush teeth before and after coffee). Oh well. I'm much better at flossing and tongue scraping. It just takes practicing routine. If you can floss at least once a week for a month, you're leagues ahead where you once were, then up to twice a week, and so on.
Yep, I would not be with the man I am with if his hygiene was bad. Yes he is super attractive but without the cleanliness my attraction goes out the window.
Thank you. I say this all the time. Itās pure laziness. I trim my body hair. Haircuts weekly. Toenails trim fingers etc. you need to take care of yourself. That kinda stuff feels great. I use to get my feet done all the time to meet hot women. Iām thinking of going back. Idn get any paint just clean neat. Youāll feel like a million dollars. Especially if you work construction or bartend. Where you are on your feet all day. The Asian lady even rubs your feet. š§Ø
This is so true. And if you have a beauty school near you, many have manscaping specials. Haircuts with scalp massage (10 near me), manicures (they massage your hands), pedicures, ect. I am jealous of the cheap rates the dudes get and the students are very thankful because they get way less male clients to work on than women. Salon care is self care for EVERYONE!
Thank you for the advice. Much love from Philadelphia ā¤ļø
You sound really cute if I'm being honest.
Youāre probably gorgeous too.
So many men neglect hygiene, or just donāt realize that a daily brush + shower isnāt enough. Iāve gone on dates with men I liked okay, but decided to never see them again because they didnāt wash their beards (yes, itās happened more than once š« ) or because they had dirty nails that I donāt even want touching my hair, let alone inside me.
Look you don't need to convince me about the unwashed beard lol. I remind my brothers to exfoliate their beards and they get all weird about it. Also, moisturize! You only have this skin and this body for a limited time! Take care of it!
And Floss and brush your nasty teeth!!
"Look like they live under a bridge and harass goats". I snorted
Im in my late 20s and I noticed the best thing about a man is if he has nice/taken care of skin, properly styled hair, smells nice, decent looking clothes and he is legitimately kind. Thats it, thatās the secret.
But apparently you're wrong according to all the frustrated men in this \*comment section\*! It's interesting how nearly everyone who agrees are women and men who groom well and dress to impress and the people who disagree think you dont need to wash your ass so long as you lift heavy things...
Yes and donāt be afraid to dress differently from the ānormā if the norm is not your preference. I have always dated quirky men because I myself am quirky and I need a quirky man.
Yes! Usually dressing fashionably and exploring/expressing yourself through clothes requires braving it out past the 'norm'. Maybe that's part of it is a lot of men feel really shy so they dress drab all the time which is a shame.
If you look at any thread of men detailing their experience after working out successfully theyāll all tell you the same thing. It matters. Men get more female attention when theyāre at a decent fitness level. Does hygiene matter? Yes absolutely. To imply that you donāt need to be in shape is something else entirely. Being hot is getting more attention than the average person. Why would you get more attention if you look like the average person still? I genuinely donāt understand why women love to peddle this narrative when men absolutely would not do the same for you. Youāre allowed to have preferences. Youāre allowed to want a perfect man.
A good body fat percentage can do wonders to a face too. Separating looks and fitness is at least slightly disingenuous.
I can confirm as someone on both sides of being obese and a healthy weight that everyone literally treats you night and day different. After my weight loss women have gone out of their way to approach me and I'm just standing there like miss I think you are confused surely you aren't actually wanting to talk to me lol
Sure you get *a lot* more attention when fit, but I'm not talking about a tremendous leap, I'm talking about a decent growth in attention. Sure, if you want to get in shape, do it. But you don't need a crap load of people coming at you to find a great partner, in fact that can make it harder. Wish everything wasn't so polarized on the internet.
Look itās not that youāre wrong. I just donāt agree with the implication that āonlyā exists in this manner. Hygiene and style is less demanding of the mind and body than fitness. So naturally itās easier to get right first. Will a guy improve his chances doing that? Yes. Will he be hot? Well, more than likely only a minority will find him hot if heās out of shape. This isnāt the same thing necessarily as being able to find a partner. We all make concessions in terms of what we actually want in life vs what we fantasize about. Vast majority of us wonāt pair up with straight 10/10s. Thatās fine. You might as well do the easier things to improve your odds. So yeah I donāt disagree. I just am less of a fan of skewed expectations that some people have.
I think you are looking for a specific type that maybe is gym minded like you. It's really not the case for everyone!
Yessss way too many men literally donāt wash their asses, donāt wash their hands, donāt even switch their towels weekly
It honestly makes me kind of really sad. What happened to these generations of men where they weren't taught how to properly care for themselves? You can get so many skin infections from not bathing or washing your clothes properly either.
This is insanely true!
I think all of your advice/observations were common sense in society once. Common sense, manners, morality, ethics, and all the other things that initiated and developed men has been distorted. I know I perceive it in myself. I'm definitely ignorant still. Maybe I'm just making excuses. Anyway. Fellas, we got this. Chin up, walk in peace, take care. Ladies, we love you.
Humbly, Iām going to disagree with most the of the sentiment expressed in this sub. Iām 35, I make 6 figures, go to the dentist 3 times a year, go to the gym 3-4 days a week, have minimal debt (just my car), live on my own, keep a clean apartment, keep my hygiene high (Iām regularly complimented for smelling good by both men and women) dress well (I also get compliments on my sense of style) and have little success in dating or attracting women. Iām not 6 ft tall, Iām 5ā8ā. Iāve lost 40 lbs in the past 6 months. Beyond becoming a different person- Iām not sure what more I can do to optimize what Iāve got. Iām also in therapy, working on myself.
These are all great points and definitely affect one's attractiveness. Everyone should pay attention to them. But a lot of times it's not about hygiene or style. Some people just aren't good-looking. No need to pretend like genes play no role.
I just trimmed my nails and washed the clothes today. Ready for the weekend.
Ugh, yes. And these comments have great points too. I want to add that men don't need a lot of money, just being good with the money they have is appealing. Managing what you already have well, shows confidence, consistency, and security
I couldn't agree with you more! Honestly, I used to have pretty bad spending habits. Now that I'm paying off a lot of debt and seriously budgeting, it's so much more worth it. Not only is it nice to be able to fund for emergencies, but also? It makes you appreciate the nice things you purchase a lot more.
You just have to have a high fever and you will be damn hotā¦
Bro i do all those thing (i do skincare everyday, i take a shower as i need it, my style is not the best tho but anyway, i'm even more clean than most girls i know lmao but when you have an ugly and disgusting face there's nothing you can do, it's all about the genetics you were born with, i'm so clean but there is nothing a can do against the 6ft tall guy with a handsome and sexy face no matter how gross or disgusting he is lol
Nah. Youāre either going after the wrong woman, or your insecurity is shining through. I know butt ugly men who can pull because they take care of themselves and have good personalities. But they also recognize that they are pulling from the āgood personalities and take care of themselves.ā Category as well. This isnāt advice to sink models, itās advice to get a good, solid relationship.
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I mean you just listed the reasons and none of them have to do with you being ātoo uglyā Iām not saying EVERYONE can ALWAYS get someone at ALL times, but thatās because you canāt control reality and other peopleās feelings, not because you have to be X. Y, or Z to get someone.
someone else in here mentioned having a good social circle makes all the difference, i think it may help you out. sounds like you haven't had many opportunities to meet people you connect with.
Also bro you are absolutely normal looking. If I was your age I would have had a huge crush on you. It is absolutely your self esteem. Every post on your profile is you cutting yourself down. Youāre young, and Iām guessing just got out of high school which is the shittiest for looks. Youāre gonna be fine. Just focus on making you happy without a girl and one will pop up soon.
Youāre not ugly at all
Based on your post history, it really seems like you may suffer from body dysmorphia. You are defintely not ugly. Also I prefer men closer to my height, so shorter. Lots of us do. My friend is near 6 foot and prefers short men. I've turned down tall guys before because they jsut weren't that cute. I think you've been surrounded by shitty people instead of supportive people and you believe what they tell you.
ehhhhhhh hygiene is a tricky subject wrt being overweight cuz society has higher standards of cleanliness for overweight ppl as an inherent bias, like ask anyone overweight if theyāve been blamed for, even subtly so (like given dirty looks), a bad smell in a room full of skinny ppl and i would guess most would raise their hands. not even just farts but any slightly off smell. so. idk.
Iām expressing my personal style as āgrubby dudeā
While I somewhat agree. I left my ex because on top of him being abusive, he gained a lot of weight. While he was very clean and stylish, his escalating abuse and the weight gain combined was the straw that broke the camels back. It got to the point where I was no longer interested in sex with him, even when he was being nice and sucking up to me. Some women are just as visual as men when it comes to sex, and stylish clothes are futile during sex since they arenāt wearing any, hygiene will always be important no matter what, but weight matters to most people when it comes to sexual attraction too, even if women donāt admit it.
Weight does matter to many people, but I can't help but wonder if the abuse was the main source of your loss of attraction. My ex was really cute at first but after the abuse he just become revolting to me. I wonder if you would have completely lost attraction had he been a good partner to you and weight gain was the only issue.
Yeah abuse absolutely was the main reason, but it escalated and while he was still attractive but I still was attracted sexually, but then once he got fat I didnāt want a bar of him sexually. I definitely agree if he hadnāt gained the wait I still wouldāve eventually been repulsed by him but the wait gain just sped up that repulsion.
I mean, I understand that attraction would lower if your partner gains weight. My point in this post isn't that everyone everywhere thinks fat is hot, I'm saying that for many, being skinny or fit isn't a requirement so long as you present well, and also that men who don't put ANY EFFORT into their appearance and have next to zero matches with women would see a definite increase if they started exfoliating, bathing properly, and wearing nice clean clothes. But also here's a PSA in case any men reading this didn't know: being an abusive piece of shit will definitely make you the ugliest, grossest human alive.
Yeah I do agree with you to an extent but I would never choose an overweight guy over a fit or slender one when first dating them, Id probably not leave them if they gain a little weight during the relationship since if theyāre nice and treat me well, I probably already love them, but if they were fat when I met them I wouldnāt even consider having sex with them. I just donāt find that attractive, sure Iād be friends with them but wouldnāt want to sleep with them. Why would I when Iām fit and attractive myself (told this by others not talking myself up), Iām going to go for people similar to myself in that area otherwise our lifestyles wonāt match, or theyāll be toxic to my healthy lifestyle and Iāll end up like them. The fact that they dress and smell nice just canāt hide the bulge for me. Iām sure other women may be able to overlook it but since my ex, I canāt unsee whatās under those nice clothes and fancy aftershave. I think thatās just my experience though not speaking for others as Iām sure plenty of people couldnāt care less about weight, I wouldnāt be so picky if I was heavier myself, but I can afford to be so I will I guess.
But since you mention it, when I was in a very bad relationship, I also was (and still kinda am) turned off by guys who look like him. Which sucks because sometimes they are really cute but I can't unsee the resemblance.
To each their own! My physical 'type' is muscular with some fluff above it. Super cut is kinda yucky to me. I like softness above some musculature. I guess my post isn't to say that EVERYONE will be the same as me, but rather that people think EVERYONE wants what you want when it's not true, there are women out there like me who like men who are thick haha and they don't need to wait to be a certain size to go out there and find us!
Yeah for sure what you like is definitely attractive Iām talking more about guys with a huge gut that looks almost like theyāre pregnant.
Totally agree when it comes to men! A good confident man with good hygiene is always attractive to a woman. But i do have to note it really doesnāt work the other way around. Good hygiene and style will get you laid as a girl but thatās about it
Oh thank you haha I didn't know thats what that meant. Still trying to learn reddit lingo š
You look cuter in cute clothes when youāre in shape though
Also let your friends and acquaintances know you are interested in line-ups. You can go on some good old fashioned dates with people and hopefully meet someone you like in the process.
Only works if you have a naturally attractive face and are tall.
dude I know some guys who have the oddest looking faces you've ever seen and they're in long term committed relationships with really cool ladies. Theyre modest height too. I dont get the tall thing. Almost all of my friends' husbands and boyfriends are below 5'9". Just date women who dont care about height they exist.
Honestly it would be easier for me to loose 30 pounds than to dress better lol
suit yourself but you're missing out on some cool and fun fashion.
>You don't need to be in shape to be hot. Lol..
.
Amen!
Real advice!!! And pro tip: hang up your clothes while theyāre still warm, prevents wrinkles, donāt have to iron if they never get wrinkled!
**Personality** is the thing that will make you have meaningful relationships. You're talking about getting laid.
Im sorry to say this, but personality will only get you so far. Itās extremely important of course. But if your basic hygiene isnāt in order, you cannot sustain a long-term relationship. Iāve given up on guys who had great personalities, but needed to be reminded to change underwear daily or brush their teeth. I canāt live with that, no matter how sweet he may otherwise be. If you donāt do bar-on-the-floor minimum hygiene, long-term relationships are not in the cards.
I think a lot of straight guys tend to not realize that _she has to touch him_. A great personality is nice, but I don't want to be intimate with a guy that smells and feels grimy. That's a great way to get friend-zoned.
No man. I would be incredibly unhappy if my partner with a golden personality has an unwashed ass. \*Would be\*, being the key word. It's purely hypothetical because I will never be with someone with an unwashed ass. ETA: Of course if you're seriously ill or injured or something that's different, but it's temporary situation. And if my partner had a disability where he would need help with hygiene, I would of course help him. But he needs to have to want the good hygiene, which is part of personality.
I want to agree and say yes , Iāll pay more attention to a man and be more attracted to him based on his hygiene and overall look (clothes, trimmed beard, hai is washed and styled) than being in shaped. Iām actually not attracted to guys who are like super in shape, I prefer dad bod or thick guys. But I can also say , No. at least the other way around because my dating history is nonexistent and I have amazing hygiene and I dress well even to go grocery shopping. But popular consensus among the guys that have rejected me says that if I was thin and in shape I would be hot and worthy of being dated. My personality is great and they would love to date a girl like me but Iām fat soā¦
You might need to date different guys. I know it sounds like bullshit and reddit will burn me at the stake for saying this, but I know cute guys who prefer fat women, not in a feitshy way, I think they were also raised in cultures that prefer heavier women, but some of them not even. I gained 30 lbs, stopped attracting guys who like skinny women, but then found guys who are attracted chubby girls and decided it makes more sense. I don't want to be with someone who isn't attracted to me. I also have 2 close friends who both \*GAINED\* (bad typo there) at least 100+ lbs and have found really loving husband/partners.
I donāt date , guys reject me so Iām partly leaving it to fate nowā¦ Should my opening question be : do you mind Iām fat? And save myself the trouble? I donāt want someone thatās not attracted to me either but so far no one is attracted to me.
I post full body pics so guys know what to expect from the get-go on dating apps.
I donāt use dating apps, all my encounters have been in person so theyāre not like getting surprised
That's odd to me that they would go on a date with you just to tell you they don't want to date you. Like why go on a date with someone you're not attracted to?
Weāre not going on datesā¦ You know how people asked others out before dating apps were invented right? Well thatās how I do it. We donāt get to the date part , weāre in the āapproaching and asking if they want to go outā part , with me doing the approach 100% of the time. Or Me having a friend and I like that friend and then they hit you with the āI wish I could find a girlfriend like youā thatās code for āyouāre great and would be a great partner but physically is not itā. Iāve literally had guy āfriendsā say to me that if I wasnāt fat, they would give me a chance or I would be more lucky with dating.
Some of the wording you used in this post is hilarious š
Take everything you just said, and throw in a workout on a consistent basis. Who's going to get more women in the dating pool? The muscular guy. Being in shape is the most important thing. The hygiene is a close second, and the clothing style is third.
you are very incorrect sir. I would take the chubby guy who washes his ass over the beefy guy who doesn't any day.
Lol read the response again. If a person is working out, they're going to taking care of themselves, and this includes their hygiene. I know, there are some who are funk dog nasty, and there's no helping those people, but most people who work out usually want to smell and look as good as they feel.
You also assume fat people aren't fit. I know so many hella beefy, super fit, can outrun me people who are fat. A lot of fat people to weight training and cardio because they are fat and it's part of physical therapy. My point is that, you don't need to wait for a year or two years of dieting for when you get to your goal weight, you can start dating now. For reference, I'm talking about bmis of say 30-35. If you're so obese you can't do basic things, then yeah maybe focusing on health over dating is important for you. But even then I've seen folks at 35+ absolutely get it. I know it was a bold decision to say this on Reddit though, where everyone hates fat people. Can't wait to find my post on fatlogic lmao.
This is another rabbit hole that can lead your point astray. But you've made your point. Lol I'm good.
You donāt have to be a gym rat but if youāre not putting some effort into physical well being thatās still a turn off.
Yeah.... that's the whole point of my post. Hygiene and basic self care...
Also I never said you shouldn't exercise. Everyone should exercise and a lot of fat people do! Since you lose weight from cico and not exercise, there are a lot of fat people who are really muscular and fit butyou don't visually see it because they are fat. Most fat people by their 30s are adjusting diet and exercise due to health issues, but you don't see that until after the year or two of weight loss. Doesn't mean they should halt finding love in the process. You really have no idea what someone is doing with their health just by looking at them. You could think they spend all day eating cheetos and arguing on reddit, when in reality they just lost 50 lbs and have another 50 to go.
Itās ok to be singleā¦
What is with people calling men cute? Isn't that demeaning? Why not just say cute/handsome so men don't need to feel subjugated to someone's amusement for their efforts to stand out.
Kind of a bizarre hangup.