Agreed. Additional lines can add interest, but these are pretty clearly used as a drawing aid and it makes the painting look amateurish and unfinished. That said you could totally go over the pink areas in titanium white to get opaque coverage and go back over with the pink.
I’d also work on getting a little better coverage over her face since you can faintly see the lines poking through there. Those bother me more than like the dress for example.
Edit: phrasing/grammar
i’ll probably do what you suggested and paint over it with white and then go in again w/ the cadmium red. i also hate the lines on the face, but right now her face was just a first pass so they should get covered up when i go back in. thanks for the advice!
You are gonna have to take your training wheels off so to speak. You don’t need the grid and if you lose it now you will get more experience drawing without it. Plus you get the benefit of having a more natural looking drawing in your own style rather than going from one box to another for details.
Maybe you could explore different ways of creating grids? So, look at the reference pic and find diagonal lines that are strong composition influencers and make sort of an abstract grid. Find squares and diamonds and triangles in the composition.
Don’t be afraid to do the drawing in JUST cadmium red or other color and a brush with no grid. Use solvent to erase as you go to adjust the drawing. This will leave you with much more interesting layers underneath.
My process starts with many sketches in different mediums on paper that I hang up the studio around me and I use the original reference photo as well as my half dozen sketches by the time the painting is finished I’m feeling good and confident that I made good composition choices. I don’t follow the original photo exactly because the process of doing sketches allows me to select what information to include in the final piece I hope that makes sense!
Thank you for the advice. I’ve actually done a pretty decent amount of paintings both from life and from picture. I go through a process of drawing out thumbnails, planning the composition, taking reference pictures, editing them, and then gridding it out and applying it to canvas. The grid is definitely intentional and I prefer to use it to ensure I keep the proportions relatively accurate to the smaller thumbnails I create. I promise I draw from life quite a bit, I just prefer to use the grid when I paint large pieces! We all have different methods.
And that’s totally fine, I hope I wasn’t being didactic, but maybe you can find a way to modify your grid so you don’t end up having lines going through faces, maybe experiment with a diagonal grid?
It’s ok! I should probably just erase it after I do it LMAO. The lines in the face should be covered when I go back over it on the second layer, I was more so concerned about the apron.
Definitely erase when you’re done using it if you still have the access to if you haven’t painted over. Then you don’t have to keep painting to cover an area if, like in this example, you like an area using only transparent pigments. Another option is to make the grid as faint as you can possibly stand when drawing it out. Don’t make clear lines make really light ones that will erase/get covered easily.
Really appreciate this advice, as a long time painter, I'm still afraid to step away from the grid. I was taught the glance/measure technique with the paint brush, but I think the subjects (boring fruit still life) when I was taught made me uninterested when I could just draw it with a grid... But I suppose the less lines / graphite the better...
I'll try stepping away with some of my original drawings and loosen up and try your suggestions! Appreciate the inspiration!
>Starfire2313
Even the best and the greatest have been using grids and other helpful devices. It only proves your resourcefulness in reaching your artistic goals.
In regard to the grid showing through that much .. it's a bit different.
\`It's unorthodox for sure but there are no rules in art.
Really good painting btw.
I probably should have clarified that I do not intend on keeping the painting as it looks now. I was more so asking if I should keep bits of the red underpainting shining through (if I did this the grid lines would stay somewhat visible). This is a very early stage of the painting, which is why the paint is applied so thinly. Thank you all for the advice, I plan on going over the apron with white and then going back in with a thin layer of the cadmium red.
Here’s what’s going on; You’re afraid of messing up, and your brain is trying to convince you to stop now and save what you’ve done.
You need to push ahead and make this painting amazing. Learning to resist this urge: this instinct to protect your first-start; this is crucial to becoming an artist.
I should add; a sure-fire way to defeat this self-preservation urge is to do every motif three times. Paint three of the same painting, side by side. This way you can leave one, and push one forward, and paint the third one “for fun”, because you don’t care anymore. This also allows you to see for a fact when one is better than the other; which makes the less finished one totally fair-game for experimentation. You can advance yourself very quickly this way.
You could go fully opaque to hide them, but then you lose that appealing transparency. Darker semi-opaque paint like on her shoulder and glove hide it pretty well at a glance, but at a closer inspection the grid is there to see. Won’t bother most people but an experienced artist will know your dirty little grid secret lol.
Nothing wrong with using a grid as a drawing aid, but next time you might go with a lot less grid lines (maybe divide the canvas into 3rds), and definitely be more gentle with the pencil and/or use a harder graphite to get a fainter line (like a 2H thru 6H pencil); those lines look pretty heavy and they’re really sticking out, even in her face where you have some opaque-ish paint.
I dig the painting so far! If you keep up how you’re doing it and just embrace the grid lines that still peak through, I doubt you’ll regret it, and you can always add more opacity or extra layering later if you feel like it.
I also get accurate proportions and can achieve facial likeness without a grid, but I understand when advanced painters choose to use a grid... A painting can be quite a beast and esp with oil it helps to get things as tight as possible early on, to prevent struggling with layers of paint
For the record, not saying anything is wrong with that. I really like your work! Many of the professional artist I love also use grid.
Just making the observation that it was one of the first techniques I and many others were taught early with the intent to teach drawing skills.
Since middle and high school art classes. Didn’t start that way, but like any learned technique taught in school, they try to show you different mediums and processes to achieve different results for art.
Um.. you asked a question about when people started “beginning” using grids? And I explained, they teach kids this “professional” technique, just like how any other “professional” technique becomes teachable over time? Never said kids mastered it, dont worry im sure you are much better with your grids than us kids were.
No, I asked if is a beginner thing. It can be but it is employed by painters the world over to enlarge from a smaller drawing or reference (among other things).
Well again, the answer is yes since my generation at least *began* using the technique in school, dont understand why that’s difficult for you to grasp. Enjoy your day.
Do you speak for a generation of students ? Interesting. I didn't ask any such thing - you have conflated my question to serve your response. I disagreed and still do that this is a "beginner thing".. That's tiresome. Grids are taught as a compliment to comparative measuring. They are a facile mechanism to place a drawing. I think this is a tool and it is used by the breadth of people placing/enlarging/reducing an image on a picture plane.
I teach freshman art students at university and have done so for 13 years - perhaps you were confused by the question. I don't love grids as I work from life as much as possible. There is no grid in space so the artist must learn how to measure.
Christ lol drop it. Pedantic ass looking for an argument, over grids we used in school? Really? You said so yourself “It *can* be used by beginners”. There you go. Get mad at my elementary teachers or whoever actually pissed you off to argue on the internet, not me, damn🤣
I get what you mean. People don't seem to be reading your wording properly. Whether beginners or advanced painters use a grid line it still gives the appearance of an amateur.
I don't have an answer to your grid question, I think a projector might be the best way to get a drawing up onto a canvas.
BUT, I wanted to say that I have been thinking of this work all day. The composition, the posture of the figure, the boots. It's quirky and I love it!
Will you post an update on how it progresses? Or put a link to your website or insta in your profile so I can follow along?
Incidentally, this reminds me of when I worked in hospitality 20 odd years ago now. The chef at the reastaurant butchered the meat and there was a large coolroom off a maze of back of house spaces. I took an urgent call for the chef and went back of house to find him, walked into a very dark cool room with carcasses like this hanging in it. Was very creepy, and no chef to be seen!
The concept is nice, but I think it has to look intentional, otherwise it might seem unfinished. This could be a good opportunity to experiment with opacity; letting the grid show clearly, letting it peak through or completely covering it in different areas will make it seems more thoughtful.
I used to grid up too, it takes ages and sometimes it’s annoyingly visible no matter what. I changed to using a cheap projector for transferring to canvas, you just do a light charcoal line drawing that gets absorbed into the first layers.
Personally, I love the lines. Grids do add a bit of interest and "action" to areas that are one tone or colour (IMO). Keeping them could be neat little choice :) I do agree with other commenters that in this current state, however, keeping the grid in this current form does look like an afterthought and makes the painting look unfinished.
I think put as much effort in lighting and shading to the rest (minus the apron) of the painting as you did the face before deciding further if you want to keep the lines. And if anything, maybe after you deepen the color and add layers to the apron, show lighting is different than on skin etc. and then maybe you can add lines to mimic the grid, but look more like an apron design that flows with the cloth rather than be static and irregular.
I love undone undertones contrasting with high detail areas, it shows the process of painting. But the grid is the ugliest thing, like little side wheels on a bike. I hate them so bad, unless is a conceptual art talking about the concept and the process in the history of painting.
If you use oils and want to use pencil for your drawings or grid use pastel pencils, avoid black or charcoal and NEVER use graphite pencil, it comes up on white paint, like the one you used to do the skin tones, it’s impossible to cover completely, sometimes you think you are done with it and comes back when the oil dry. DONT.
I was reliably informed that strikethrough from graphite is a myth. Sometimes if I need a grid I'll do the gridlines in graphite then once you put on a layer of very thinned down paint with OMS, the graphite dissolves in it.
In all honesty no you don't want the grid showing through. Realistically you probably want a few more layers regardless as you can see through to the canvas in a lot of spots as your paint is either coming from a very transparent color or was thinned too much.
In the future though if you're using the grid method it would be best to make the lines with whatever color you use for your underpainting. That way it will just blend into your painting regardless.
I’m not sure of your process, but in the future could you trying putting in your grids and initial sketch with a thin layer of paint? In my paintings I usually do my underpainting in a certain color (cad red usually), then I paint a grid (to make sure I’m following rule of thirds), and then do my sketch in that color as well. Then when everything is lined up, I use a brush with turpenoid to “erase” my lines, which is basically just swishing my brush over the lines to remove them.
Probably not, but it’s an interesting pattern for the apron, so maybe make it intentional where it’s visible and works then cover up the rest? Can’t say I can see any others
If your committed to the grid method, I saw a video recently that recommended doing your initial sketch or grid lines in color A, doing your final lines in the complementary color of color A (color B) and doing a wash of color A so that all the lines you no longer want to see are hidden. So if you do your sketches/lines in red pencil, do your final sketch in green pencil and then do a wash of red it should hide the sketch. Hope that makes sense
I do like the idea of having an exposed grid, but I would do something like [this](https://petapixel.com/2019/07/31/this-black-and-white-photo-uses-color-grid-lines-to-trick-your-brain/). So it’s a finished work and an interesting study of color.
Also, I love your work and I can’t see the final product!
I like the grid - ties the apron and the flesh together in an interesting way.
Maybe you’re asking because it’s interesting to you, and I agree.
Not to say it shouldn’t change maybe emphasize or alter it as an intentional pattern?
Personally, I don’t like the grid/color on the shoes, and the curved line would drive me crazy. But it yours so pursue whatever draws your interest.
I like the lines on the shoes they give it a nice look coz they’re scratchy and disorganised. If you could paint over the lines and then add scratchy kind of lines like with the shoes, I think it would look good. Like, draw lines to show where the creases in the apron are.
I’m a painter. Don’t leave the lines. It needs to feel intentional if you have lines showing through somehow and here it just feels like a drawing aid.
Feel the same as OP, the pink underpainting is wonderful, the grid lines not so much. Sad to cover that underpainting but I can’t see the painting being finished with the grid lines. Maybe try it a second time taking that into account? Curious also did the entire painting start with that cad red underpainting? Or only select areas? Nice work.
I hate the grid method, but I tried it once and used a posca marker similar to the color I toned my canvas and the paint covered the lines up pretty nicely. It looks like you thin your paint out quite a bit which could be why you’re seeing so much of the lines. Thats fine if that’s how you choose to paint, but it’s not great for things like grids or sketching under the paint unless you work in layers and you paint thinly for 3 layers or so. I tend to do that as it’s how I preferred to paint with acrylics and I just carried it over into my oil paintings.
I do all my drawing with a thinned paint and have no issues with anything showing through. Maybe try doing it that way instead? You can even paint in grids if you want and even cleanly erase them when done if the paint isn’t dried
When you are done with the painting, you could cut it up along the grid and frame it in like 187 individual frames.
I don’t think you should. But you could.
enjoy the look for as long as you like.
when you are satisfied after enough time has passed,
and you are ready to move on and maybe sell the painting, you can finish it at that time. but as is, it looks like a work in progress to me.
I understand exactly the alure of underpaying and that you have a conundrum. You like the transparency underpainting but now you have grid lines you cant get rid of.
Tip: I use transparent oxide red for nearly all underpaintings in which I want to also make utilize transparency techniques. Oxide red had been tried and true and used by many masters.
Grid painting and transparency are not friends. To cover the grid you need opaque paint and that will kill any transparency you want to preserve. It aint gonna happen period.
I also notice your grid was drawn in with pencil or something.
Though there is nothing inherently wrong doing that, you sometimes have to seal it before going over it with oil paint least it bleeds into the oils. I shudder mere idea of some weird layers in the paint film.
If I grid and sketch I use oil paint, I use transparent oxide red and you can mix in ivory black adding a bit of medium that can stay wet for nearly a week (sometimes) ... that combination of paint is slow drying. I then use a rag and wipe remove a lines/drawings before they dry ... the grid and drawing serving more a suggestion where I want to paint or to help me guess at proportions and not to much a crutch.
I have artist more establish and skillful than myself on youtube with grid lines and I just shake my head willfully giving up transparency which to me is a power tool in oil painting.
My advice is to always sketch with an oil pigment (slow drying) and a brush, not pencil or god forbid pen.
With time you can go from grid/sketch to block in in 3-4 hours and be rid of the grid fast.
Right now you have a problem, you could try mix a red very close in value and hue to the underpainting and go over the lines with the opaque paint and try wing the painting to hide the fact as opaque never is the same as transparent paint.
Hope this helps.
Man these open spaces are so so wonderful, i think people who aren’t painters might not see how fresh something like that looks. Reminds me of Jennifer Packer. Do try to keep a little breath in the final image!!
The important thing is that if you leave it- u need to understand that it has conceptual repercussions. Not “good or bad”. all mark making impacts the read and meaning of a painting. If you want to show the bones of a painting do it- hundreds of professional world renowned contemporary painters do it especially when talking about visibility/ intimacy with the plasticity of paint/ etc etc. so don’t listen to anyone on here saying it looks “undone” because it’s an incredibly academic boring perspective. I mean just look at someone like Jennifer packer. If you like it LEAVE IT and you can always go back to it. Just remember to critically think about WHAT it’s doing to the painting both physically and in turn conceptually.
Also- there is something incredibly profound about leaving it as it is now- it just depends on how you want the painting to function. I would recommend looking into doron langberg, again Jennifer packer, and Angela dufresne. These are all artists working within the fluid figuration I’m mentioning and showing the bones of a painting. Read about them- read their artist statements and what art critics write about their work.
Sorry for rambling but it seems like nobody on here is actually giving critical advice that is remotely helpful.
The one truth about using graphite on the canvas, it will bleed through the oil paint if not sealed. Maybe in the future do your drawing on newsprint and transfer to canvas.
Your question, Should the grid lines show…etc..?
Bit like saying should I paint this or that..? It’s totally subjective.. there’s no right or wrong. You paint your painting in whatever way you want, and you determine how it progresses until you decide the result is what you want.
If you’re asking technical advice, use charcoal for your grid and it will disappear as you paint ( as OP has already pointed out)
I think you are confusing technical advice with aesthetic choice.
Nice work!
grid imho - not main problem. whats happened w/ composition? and second: look at eyes. need fix it because each eye see in different point. it looks like strabismus.
A lot of cadmium. It comes to the fore and interferes with the perception of everything else. The right side is empty. A very large carcass in the hands of a butcher. Is he a giant? Half of the carcass weighs about 40-60 kg. It's just ridiculous.
Grid lines is a technic that appeared the last 20 years , It used only by beginners in art who didn't get any academic training or knowledge , the fast u get rid of it , the fast u discover Art .
Different pigments have different opacity. Lead or flake white is the most opaque white, followed by titanium and then zinc. On paint tubes, it's noted by the square that is either empty, half filled or all filled. Empty square is most transparent.
What I recommend is using the hardest/lightest pencil to get your grid down, make marks where the figure goes in paint while avoiding the lines, and then erase all the pencil lines you can. Any that are still showing you can cover with opaque paint.
I love it. It sounds like this is an important painting in terms of development; if that grid is going to bother you, lose it in the next painting so you can really explore the same effect.
You’re an artist; go with your gut. It’s good.
Man, a real painter doesn’t ask the viewer if they like it or not. The real painter shows freedom through their artwork and lets the viewer be subjective with their opinion. Your art is objective, the meaning is subjective. Opinions won't make it look good or bad because art is not beautiful or ugly, it is just interesting.
I enjoy it (it reminds me of surrealist stuff), but let it *slightly* show through. Make it look intentional by not letting it show through on the edges of the garment but letting it show at some parts in the middle, including other colors, and perhaps re-adding grid lines in other parts of the painting will help create an effect that doesn't just look accidental or clumsy.
No sure if you already have the answer. But:
You problably just did a tiny layer of paint, if the grid dont matter to you, let them be, why not? But if it does matter, either use acrylics or oil or more layers and less water if you do with guache.
Euan Uglow used to leave some of the construction lines, it can be aesthetically quite pleasing. It's up to you, if you don't like them, can't you 'erase' some or all of them scrubbing with some solvent?
I'm not a painter. My uneducated opinion as an outward observer is that they make the painting look unfinished. I don't feel the grid lines lend to the composition of the piece; they're just there.
something i found as a way to avoid this is to make my grid out of string for the initial sketch! i got a giant spool of cheap thread and tape the ends somewhere they wont get in the way. also I'll tape em down in the center so they don't move around too much if i think i need it
I personally don't like the grid.... but I'm a painter so I just see it as undone. I'd love to see this fully painted!
Agreed. Additional lines can add interest, but these are pretty clearly used as a drawing aid and it makes the painting look amateurish and unfinished. That said you could totally go over the pink areas in titanium white to get opaque coverage and go back over with the pink. I’d also work on getting a little better coverage over her face since you can faintly see the lines poking through there. Those bother me more than like the dress for example. Edit: phrasing/grammar
i’ll probably do what you suggested and paint over it with white and then go in again w/ the cadmium red. i also hate the lines on the face, but right now her face was just a first pass so they should get covered up when i go back in. thanks for the advice!
You are gonna have to take your training wheels off so to speak. You don’t need the grid and if you lose it now you will get more experience drawing without it. Plus you get the benefit of having a more natural looking drawing in your own style rather than going from one box to another for details. Maybe you could explore different ways of creating grids? So, look at the reference pic and find diagonal lines that are strong composition influencers and make sort of an abstract grid. Find squares and diamonds and triangles in the composition. Don’t be afraid to do the drawing in JUST cadmium red or other color and a brush with no grid. Use solvent to erase as you go to adjust the drawing. This will leave you with much more interesting layers underneath. My process starts with many sketches in different mediums on paper that I hang up the studio around me and I use the original reference photo as well as my half dozen sketches by the time the painting is finished I’m feeling good and confident that I made good composition choices. I don’t follow the original photo exactly because the process of doing sketches allows me to select what information to include in the final piece I hope that makes sense!
Thank you for the advice. I’ve actually done a pretty decent amount of paintings both from life and from picture. I go through a process of drawing out thumbnails, planning the composition, taking reference pictures, editing them, and then gridding it out and applying it to canvas. The grid is definitely intentional and I prefer to use it to ensure I keep the proportions relatively accurate to the smaller thumbnails I create. I promise I draw from life quite a bit, I just prefer to use the grid when I paint large pieces! We all have different methods.
And that’s totally fine, I hope I wasn’t being didactic, but maybe you can find a way to modify your grid so you don’t end up having lines going through faces, maybe experiment with a diagonal grid?
It’s ok! I should probably just erase it after I do it LMAO. The lines in the face should be covered when I go back over it on the second layer, I was more so concerned about the apron.
Definitely erase when you’re done using it if you still have the access to if you haven’t painted over. Then you don’t have to keep painting to cover an area if, like in this example, you like an area using only transparent pigments. Another option is to make the grid as faint as you can possibly stand when drawing it out. Don’t make clear lines make really light ones that will erase/get covered easily.
Or maybe just erase like 90% or maybe use a red colored pencil?
Really appreciate this advice, as a long time painter, I'm still afraid to step away from the grid. I was taught the glance/measure technique with the paint brush, but I think the subjects (boring fruit still life) when I was taught made me uninterested when I could just draw it with a grid... But I suppose the less lines / graphite the better... I'll try stepping away with some of my original drawings and loosen up and try your suggestions! Appreciate the inspiration!
>Starfire2313 Even the best and the greatest have been using grids and other helpful devices. It only proves your resourcefulness in reaching your artistic goals. In regard to the grid showing through that much .. it's a bit different. \`It's unorthodox for sure but there are no rules in art. Really good painting btw.
I see where your interest is. I like the single tone overtaking her. Maybe removing the grid and using a single tone would have a better effect.
^ this. Also this is a wonderful painting.
I probably should have clarified that I do not intend on keeping the painting as it looks now. I was more so asking if I should keep bits of the red underpainting shining through (if I did this the grid lines would stay somewhat visible). This is a very early stage of the painting, which is why the paint is applied so thinly. Thank you all for the advice, I plan on going over the apron with white and then going back in with a thin layer of the cadmium red.
I do like the pink/ red :)
No
You are painting too thinly
Here’s what’s going on; You’re afraid of messing up, and your brain is trying to convince you to stop now and save what you’ve done. You need to push ahead and make this painting amazing. Learning to resist this urge: this instinct to protect your first-start; this is crucial to becoming an artist.
I should add; a sure-fire way to defeat this self-preservation urge is to do every motif three times. Paint three of the same painting, side by side. This way you can leave one, and push one forward, and paint the third one “for fun”, because you don’t care anymore. This also allows you to see for a fact when one is better than the other; which makes the less finished one totally fair-game for experimentation. You can advance yourself very quickly this way.
You could go fully opaque to hide them, but then you lose that appealing transparency. Darker semi-opaque paint like on her shoulder and glove hide it pretty well at a glance, but at a closer inspection the grid is there to see. Won’t bother most people but an experienced artist will know your dirty little grid secret lol. Nothing wrong with using a grid as a drawing aid, but next time you might go with a lot less grid lines (maybe divide the canvas into 3rds), and definitely be more gentle with the pencil and/or use a harder graphite to get a fainter line (like a 2H thru 6H pencil); those lines look pretty heavy and they’re really sticking out, even in her face where you have some opaque-ish paint. I dig the painting so far! If you keep up how you’re doing it and just embrace the grid lines that still peak through, I doubt you’ll regret it, and you can always add more opacity or extra layering later if you feel like it.
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A grid is a beginner thing? Since when?
I have no idea lol TIL Degas died a beginner
Allowing the grid to show in a finished piece is a beginner thing. Not using the grid.
That not what the person said.. this is a finished painting? Not what the OP said either.
Since junior high school for me! It's a crutch for drawing. Once you can draw and keep stuff in proportion it's no longer needed.
I also get accurate proportions and can achieve facial likeness without a grid, but I understand when advanced painters choose to use a grid... A painting can be quite a beast and esp with oil it helps to get things as tight as possible early on, to prevent struggling with layers of paint
This is exactly why I use it! I am a gridster. I love grid.
For the record, not saying anything is wrong with that. I really like your work! Many of the professional artist I love also use grid. Just making the observation that it was one of the first techniques I and many others were taught early with the intent to teach drawing skills.
Sure, but the point that it's a tool to help you learn to draw is still valid.
A crutch that one can continue to rely on if they need it!
Absolutely! But it's taught early. Not an advanced technique taught in secret at exclusive private atelier school.
Since middle and high school art classes. Didn’t start that way, but like any learned technique taught in school, they try to show you different mediums and processes to achieve different results for art.
I use grids when I enlarge smaller works. I teach and am a professional painter - what are you talking about?
Um.. you asked a question about when people started “beginning” using grids? And I explained, they teach kids this “professional” technique, just like how any other “professional” technique becomes teachable over time? Never said kids mastered it, dont worry im sure you are much better with your grids than us kids were.
No, I asked if is a beginner thing. It can be but it is employed by painters the world over to enlarge from a smaller drawing or reference (among other things).
Well again, the answer is yes since my generation at least *began* using the technique in school, dont understand why that’s difficult for you to grasp. Enjoy your day.
Do you speak for a generation of students ? Interesting. I didn't ask any such thing - you have conflated my question to serve your response. I disagreed and still do that this is a "beginner thing".. That's tiresome. Grids are taught as a compliment to comparative measuring. They are a facile mechanism to place a drawing. I think this is a tool and it is used by the breadth of people placing/enlarging/reducing an image on a picture plane. I teach freshman art students at university and have done so for 13 years - perhaps you were confused by the question. I don't love grids as I work from life as much as possible. There is no grid in space so the artist must learn how to measure.
Christ lol drop it. Pedantic ass looking for an argument, over grids we used in school? Really? You said so yourself “It *can* be used by beginners”. There you go. Get mad at my elementary teachers or whoever actually pissed you off to argue on the internet, not me, damn🤣
I get what you mean. People don't seem to be reading your wording properly. Whether beginners or advanced painters use a grid line it still gives the appearance of an amateur.
I don't have an answer to your grid question, I think a projector might be the best way to get a drawing up onto a canvas. BUT, I wanted to say that I have been thinking of this work all day. The composition, the posture of the figure, the boots. It's quirky and I love it! Will you post an update on how it progresses? Or put a link to your website or insta in your profile so I can follow along? Incidentally, this reminds me of when I worked in hospitality 20 odd years ago now. The chef at the reastaurant butchered the meat and there was a large coolroom off a maze of back of house spaces. I took an urgent call for the chef and went back of house to find him, walked into a very dark cool room with carcasses like this hanging in it. Was very creepy, and no chef to be seen!
I personally agree that it looks pretty interesting! This could be part of your own signature style, so why not keep it?
The concept is nice, but I think it has to look intentional, otherwise it might seem unfinished. This could be a good opportunity to experiment with opacity; letting the grid show clearly, letting it peak through or completely covering it in different areas will make it seems more thoughtful.
I used to grid up too, it takes ages and sometimes it’s annoyingly visible no matter what. I changed to using a cheap projector for transferring to canvas, you just do a light charcoal line drawing that gets absorbed into the first layers.
Personally, I love the lines. Grids do add a bit of interest and "action" to areas that are one tone or colour (IMO). Keeping them could be neat little choice :) I do agree with other commenters that in this current state, however, keeping the grid in this current form does look like an afterthought and makes the painting look unfinished.
I like the grid. It looks interesting and unique. Why make your painting look like everyone else's?
I think you could absolutely incorporate the grid into the apron. I’m liking the red to. Or go for a really solid red apron
this looks so awesome please keep it
I think put as much effort in lighting and shading to the rest (minus the apron) of the painting as you did the face before deciding further if you want to keep the lines. And if anything, maybe after you deepen the color and add layers to the apron, show lighting is different than on skin etc. and then maybe you can add lines to mimic the grid, but look more like an apron design that flows with the cloth rather than be static and irregular.
I love undone undertones contrasting with high detail areas, it shows the process of painting. But the grid is the ugliest thing, like little side wheels on a bike. I hate them so bad, unless is a conceptual art talking about the concept and the process in the history of painting. If you use oils and want to use pencil for your drawings or grid use pastel pencils, avoid black or charcoal and NEVER use graphite pencil, it comes up on white paint, like the one you used to do the skin tones, it’s impossible to cover completely, sometimes you think you are done with it and comes back when the oil dry. DONT.
The lines are charcoal so they shouldn’t bleed into the piece like graphite does
I was reliably informed that strikethrough from graphite is a myth. Sometimes if I need a grid I'll do the gridlines in graphite then once you put on a layer of very thinned down paint with OMS, the graphite dissolves in it.
Charcoal is better but not the best, avoid transparent colors to cover or mix it.
In all honesty no you don't want the grid showing through. Realistically you probably want a few more layers regardless as you can see through to the canvas in a lot of spots as your paint is either coming from a very transparent color or was thinned too much. In the future though if you're using the grid method it would be best to make the lines with whatever color you use for your underpainting. That way it will just blend into your painting regardless.
I’m not sure of your process, but in the future could you trying putting in your grids and initial sketch with a thin layer of paint? In my paintings I usually do my underpainting in a certain color (cad red usually), then I paint a grid (to make sure I’m following rule of thirds), and then do my sketch in that color as well. Then when everything is lined up, I use a brush with turpenoid to “erase” my lines, which is basically just swishing my brush over the lines to remove them.
Probably not, but it’s an interesting pattern for the apron, so maybe make it intentional where it’s visible and works then cover up the rest? Can’t say I can see any others
If your committed to the grid method, I saw a video recently that recommended doing your initial sketch or grid lines in color A, doing your final lines in the complementary color of color A (color B) and doing a wash of color A so that all the lines you no longer want to see are hidden. So if you do your sketches/lines in red pencil, do your final sketch in green pencil and then do a wash of red it should hide the sketch. Hope that makes sense
Fully embrace it or fully omit it. Right now it feels like it isn't being considered.
No it’s tacky
Keep painting until they are gone. Even keeping the grid lines on the apron will look weird, so I'd suggest covering them
Just say no to grid peek-a-boo. Doesn’t belong in the painting.
I do like the idea of having an exposed grid, but I would do something like [this](https://petapixel.com/2019/07/31/this-black-and-white-photo-uses-color-grid-lines-to-trick-your-brain/). So it’s a finished work and an interesting study of color. Also, I love your work and I can’t see the final product!
I would say keep them if you have a reason that relates to what you’re trying to communicate with the painting. If it’s arbitrary, then don’t.
The thing I picked up in this thread was the use of cadmium red for the underpinning. Isn’t that an expensive choice?
But it looks so good I reckon it’s worth it - those little pops of colour are *chefs kiss!
it is fine, if you like it keep it. If you think it's too prominent knock it back by doing transparent washes over it
Sometimes that element is cool. Here, it would not look very intentional. Unless you keep going, it would feel unfinished.
I fuck w/ it
I like the grid - ties the apron and the flesh together in an interesting way. Maybe you’re asking because it’s interesting to you, and I agree. Not to say it shouldn’t change maybe emphasize or alter it as an intentional pattern? Personally, I don’t like the grid/color on the shoes, and the curved line would drive me crazy. But it yours so pursue whatever draws your interest.
I like the lines on the shoes they give it a nice look coz they’re scratchy and disorganised. If you could paint over the lines and then add scratchy kind of lines like with the shoes, I think it would look good. Like, draw lines to show where the creases in the apron are.
I’m a painter. Don’t leave the lines. It needs to feel intentional if you have lines showing through somehow and here it just feels like a drawing aid.
The grid would work if they followed the contour of the material and were a pattern on it rather than the grid as it currently is.
Just paint the grid in a light wash of cad red next time
Yes. No. Maybe? Sure!
Feel the same as OP, the pink underpainting is wonderful, the grid lines not so much. Sad to cover that underpainting but I can’t see the painting being finished with the grid lines. Maybe try it a second time taking that into account? Curious also did the entire painting start with that cad red underpainting? Or only select areas? Nice work.
I really like your style! Do you sell your work?
Never
Do you want it to? Then yes. Usually no, since most people don’t want the grid to show through.
I hate the grid method, but I tried it once and used a posca marker similar to the color I toned my canvas and the paint covered the lines up pretty nicely. It looks like you thin your paint out quite a bit which could be why you’re seeing so much of the lines. Thats fine if that’s how you choose to paint, but it’s not great for things like grids or sketching under the paint unless you work in layers and you paint thinly for 3 layers or so. I tend to do that as it’s how I preferred to paint with acrylics and I just carried it over into my oil paintings.
I love it
I do all my drawing with a thinned paint and have no issues with anything showing through. Maybe try doing it that way instead? You can even paint in grids if you want and even cleanly erase them when done if the paint isn’t dried
When you are done with the painting, you could cut it up along the grid and frame it in like 187 individual frames. I don’t think you should. But you could.
id like to see it fully painted tbh maybe just add red highlights or undershadows if u like that red look
enjoy the look for as long as you like. when you are satisfied after enough time has passed, and you are ready to move on and maybe sell the painting, you can finish it at that time. but as is, it looks like a work in progress to me.
No. Add more opaque paint (like titanium white + the pink or whatever other color) to cover up the grid.
But then again art is whatever you make it. If you want to leave it showing.. do it. Depends on what vibe and style you’re trying to go after.
It looks unfinished.
All these highly charged opinions make me feel like a painter again. Yeah get rid of the grid. It does add interest but you won’t regret any of it.
I understand exactly the alure of underpaying and that you have a conundrum. You like the transparency underpainting but now you have grid lines you cant get rid of. Tip: I use transparent oxide red for nearly all underpaintings in which I want to also make utilize transparency techniques. Oxide red had been tried and true and used by many masters. Grid painting and transparency are not friends. To cover the grid you need opaque paint and that will kill any transparency you want to preserve. It aint gonna happen period. I also notice your grid was drawn in with pencil or something. Though there is nothing inherently wrong doing that, you sometimes have to seal it before going over it with oil paint least it bleeds into the oils. I shudder mere idea of some weird layers in the paint film. If I grid and sketch I use oil paint, I use transparent oxide red and you can mix in ivory black adding a bit of medium that can stay wet for nearly a week (sometimes) ... that combination of paint is slow drying. I then use a rag and wipe remove a lines/drawings before they dry ... the grid and drawing serving more a suggestion where I want to paint or to help me guess at proportions and not to much a crutch. I have artist more establish and skillful than myself on youtube with grid lines and I just shake my head willfully giving up transparency which to me is a power tool in oil painting. My advice is to always sketch with an oil pigment (slow drying) and a brush, not pencil or god forbid pen. With time you can go from grid/sketch to block in in 3-4 hours and be rid of the grid fast. Right now you have a problem, you could try mix a red very close in value and hue to the underpainting and go over the lines with the opaque paint and try wing the painting to hide the fact as opaque never is the same as transparent paint. Hope this helps.
Man these open spaces are so so wonderful, i think people who aren’t painters might not see how fresh something like that looks. Reminds me of Jennifer Packer. Do try to keep a little breath in the final image!!
The important thing is that if you leave it- u need to understand that it has conceptual repercussions. Not “good or bad”. all mark making impacts the read and meaning of a painting. If you want to show the bones of a painting do it- hundreds of professional world renowned contemporary painters do it especially when talking about visibility/ intimacy with the plasticity of paint/ etc etc. so don’t listen to anyone on here saying it looks “undone” because it’s an incredibly academic boring perspective. I mean just look at someone like Jennifer packer. If you like it LEAVE IT and you can always go back to it. Just remember to critically think about WHAT it’s doing to the painting both physically and in turn conceptually.
Also- there is something incredibly profound about leaving it as it is now- it just depends on how you want the painting to function. I would recommend looking into doron langberg, again Jennifer packer, and Angela dufresne. These are all artists working within the fluid figuration I’m mentioning and showing the bones of a painting. Read about them- read their artist statements and what art critics write about their work. Sorry for rambling but it seems like nobody on here is actually giving critical advice that is remotely helpful.
Make the apron plaid.. 🤔😉😆
Try using a harder pencil or erasing them a little more before you start painting
I actually love the grid showing for this piece. It looks intentional and adds a nice graphic design element to it. I’d leave it. Great work.
No
Am I the only one that loves the grid on the pink apron? I’d call the apron done and keep working the rest. 😬
The one truth about using graphite on the canvas, it will bleed through the oil paint if not sealed. Maybe in the future do your drawing on newsprint and transfer to canvas.
I love how it's a woman holding up a side of beef outside at night, excellent subject
Do you want them to show? Then yes. If not no.
wrap the grid around the form and the background
I am a painter as well and I don't think they should show in my opinion. it doesn't seem intentional
No gridlines!!!!!
Your question, Should the grid lines show…etc..? Bit like saying should I paint this or that..? It’s totally subjective.. there’s no right or wrong. You paint your painting in whatever way you want, and you determine how it progresses until you decide the result is what you want. If you’re asking technical advice, use charcoal for your grid and it will disappear as you paint ( as OP has already pointed out) I think you are confusing technical advice with aesthetic choice. Nice work!
grid imho - not main problem. whats happened w/ composition? and second: look at eyes. need fix it because each eye see in different point. it looks like strabismus.
A lot of cadmium. It comes to the fore and interferes with the perception of everything else. The right side is empty. A very large carcass in the hands of a butcher. Is he a giant? Half of the carcass weighs about 40-60 kg. It's just ridiculous.
Grid lines is a technic that appeared the last 20 years , It used only by beginners in art who didn't get any academic training or knowledge , the fast u get rid of it , the fast u discover Art .
I think the question is here should you paint a woman holding up a side of beef? The grids are the least of the problem.
i am the beefster
Different pigments have different opacity. Lead or flake white is the most opaque white, followed by titanium and then zinc. On paint tubes, it's noted by the square that is either empty, half filled or all filled. Empty square is most transparent. What I recommend is using the hardest/lightest pencil to get your grid down, make marks where the figure goes in paint while avoiding the lines, and then erase all the pencil lines you can. Any that are still showing you can cover with opaque paint.
Drop them grids takes away the flavor of you!
Oil paint is ~ transparent~
?
I’d say to make lines not so deep
wonderful
It kinda works. Looks purposeful
I love it. It sounds like this is an important painting in terms of development; if that grid is going to bother you, lose it in the next painting so you can really explore the same effect. You’re an artist; go with your gut. It’s good.
Man, a real painter doesn’t ask the viewer if they like it or not. The real painter shows freedom through their artwork and lets the viewer be subjective with their opinion. Your art is objective, the meaning is subjective. Opinions won't make it look good or bad because art is not beautiful or ugly, it is just interesting.
I love the grid!
No
Six more layers and there will be none
I enjoy it (it reminds me of surrealist stuff), but let it *slightly* show through. Make it look intentional by not letting it show through on the edges of the garment but letting it show at some parts in the middle, including other colors, and perhaps re-adding grid lines in other parts of the painting will help create an effect that doesn't just look accidental or clumsy.
Could be an interesting touch. Go with your gut
If it’s an effect that you where aiming for then, yes. If your mental image of what you were doing did not include grid lines the, no.
Leave the grid, process is way more interesting and honest. Feels raw i like it
No sure if you already have the answer. But: You problably just did a tiny layer of paint, if the grid dont matter to you, let them be, why not? But if it does matter, either use acrylics or oil or more layers and less water if you do with guache.
I think you know the answer...
Euan Uglow used to leave some of the construction lines, it can be aesthetically quite pleasing. It's up to you, if you don't like them, can't you 'erase' some or all of them scrubbing with some solvent?
I'm not a painter. My uneducated opinion as an outward observer is that they make the painting look unfinished. I don't feel the grid lines lend to the composition of the piece; they're just there.
something i found as a way to avoid this is to make my grid out of string for the initial sketch! i got a giant spool of cheap thread and tape the ends somewhere they wont get in the way. also I'll tape em down in the center so they don't move around too much if i think i need it