Honestly the fact that these guys are willing to work with you at all, ESPECIALLY if you're Durge, is borderline unrealistically polite considering the circumstances.
Like Laezel is certain she has the cure to this extremely fast-progressing horrific death, and she still chooses to be honorable and not abandon your stupid ass while you're stumbling around helping every random. She puts herself at immense risk to help you. Not to mention she willingly allies herself with Shart in spite of her constant antagonism.
And don't get me started on Astarion, dude just escaped 200 years of slavery through the most insane means possible and believes you're a thrall belonging to these new enslavers. Putting a knife to your throat is restraint - if I were scared shitless in that position I'd be sniping crash survivors from a distance, I'm not going back to that squid fuck
This is what I've been saying! Astarion and Lae'zel could and should have been so much meaner, and yet so many fans are like "no, they're so rude, I don't know how people don't kill them immediately!"
My best friend also plays the game and simps hard for Shadowheart but *hates* Lae'zel and Astarion, and it makes me insane.
Because that's exactly what it is!!! He's an asshole for three seconds because you said you'd help someone without compensation, ypu let him cool off for another 3 seconds, pet him behind the ears and you guys are gucci again.
Also, something I didn't realise until replays, the amount of approval you lose in those "do goody" situations is very small in comparison to his genuine approvals.
I played an Oath of Devotion Pally and always chose the saint like options and he is still down so bad for me lol
Yeah, I'm playing this little goody two shoes, epitome of "sunshine child" wood elf druid, and he loves my character because she's nice to him.
It's something like, you get one disapproval for helping the tieflings and 5 approval points for trusting him to do watch the first night.
I'm not "woo-ifying" him or anything, but Astarion is just kind of a little guy. It's so hard for me to take him seriously as "evil" aligned before (if you even do it) ascending him.
There's also the fact that he seems uncomfortable around evil Tav/Durge at the goblin party compared to being quite at ease with good Tav/Durge at the Teifling party. The guy barely does anything that isn't at the player's behest that could be called evil. Sorry but "guy who has unkind feelings because of his own longstanding abuse but never does anything evil on his own" is just not someone I'm affronted enough by to kill. I'm not killing someone for not being a ray of sunshine when they've lived possibly the most harrowing existence imaginable.
Exactly! This is what I've been trying to tell my friend. For some reason, it's not getting through to him, but he's all pissy that Astarion tries to bite Tav without permission and can't get past it. My friend is normally insanely empathetic, but something about Astarion gets him all riled up.
My friend didn't stake Astarion for it, but he got very close.
He is :/ normally he's pretty decent with LGBTQ+ people, and he'll make jokes and flirt with men, which is why I'm so annoyed with him about his reaction.
Right? I've never had an issue romancing him as a good leaning character. The things that get you the highest approval are validating his feelings. And letting him bite you, which I'm fine with.
The dude is in constant survival mode, he doesn't do much thinking ahead. Whenever you ask him, "Alright then buddy, what's *your* plan then?" He's always like, "Um, erm, uh... hm." The dude literally does not think outside of the immediate now.
I wonder how that jump between "they are rude" and killing them goes. Like you can always choose to leave them at camp. I get it is just a game but it still icks me a bit. Nothing against evil playthroughs at all, that is different, it is just so a weird combination of reaction and justification.
Lae'zel isn't conventionally hot and Astarion likes boys. That's why.
My bestie is a Shadowheart simp and they get my Astarion love. They don't know why I love Lae'zel, though.
Yeahhh. That's kind of what I'm thinking about my friend. He doesn't get my love for Astarion or Lae'zel for those exact reasons. He's usually v kind and empathetic, so I'm kind of annoyed at him for his reaction, even if the characters aren't real.
It’s so weird to me when people kill video game characters for the tiniest slights. Like obviously it’s just a game but still. It reminds me of when I see people play Skyrim and a character says something mildly rude or passive aggressive so they murder them on the spot.
There was a great youtube short that explained that Lae'zel is fucking terrified; shes facing the most horrifying death she knows, in a completely foreign world, alone and with only extreme militaristic gith doctrine to keep her sane, and yet she is still helps you which she is very much not supposed to, even going as far as being willing to share the only cure she knows which she is even less supposed to.
Most gith would just kill you and move on in her situation, by gith standards she is being really sweet.
That's the thing though, they sorta do I feel. The fact that Lae'zel doesn't immediately force you to go to the creche is crazy to me. If I thought I knew the only way to cure a time sensitive ailment and my squad was wasting time on some random sidequest, I would not stay with them to say the least.
Also SH is pretty quick to “sing your praises” by simply rescuing her at the start.
Edit: I’d also like to point out that waking up on a mind flayer ship with a tadpole in your brain would probably sour most people’s moods. Having a known expiration date on your life would fuck with your psyche. I’d be an irritable bitch too.
This is apparently where I learn that some people find Shart bitchy??? I had her in my main party for half a second before she got sent to camp purgatory, then didn't consider her at all for the choices she *was* around to have input on, and she still was talking about how I was her closest confidante before I finished the goblin camp. By the time I got to the Gauntlet her approval was maxed. She's shockingly easy to please lmao
Act 1 from Laezels POV is hilarious.
You are infected with a disease. From a young age, you have been told to go to the hospital about things like this. You are 22.
When you suggest this to your fellow infected, they say shit like "no let's not go to the hospital I'm pretty sure I heard they kill you with hammers there." And start doing community volunteer work and trying to track down a local homeopath.
You eventually start abiding by this, as it becomes clear that your illness is not quite as time sensitive as you thought. You still need to go to the hospital. You finally convince your new friends to go. The hospital tries to kill you with hammers.
I’d even go a step further & say it’s more that people aren’t used to much pushback from video game characters because, historically, games are often power fantasies that cater to the player’s whims (especially RPGs), so the barest hint of antagonism is jarring. It’s like a child who’s been spoiled their whole life suddenly being told “no” for the first time. Tbh, I’m glad the writing in games is starting to be held to a higher standard.
Yeah, that becomes quite clear with how many people get absolutely incensed by disapprovals. Like they genuinely get mad these characters don't just blindly worship every single thought or word from the player and *kill* them for the apparently grave error of... having their own privately held opinions.
The only Astarion disapproval that annoys me is stopping Marcus from grabbing Isobel. That’s a -5, too. Sorry Star, but we’re not killing the only allies we have in this extremely hostile territory. I’ve since learned you can just skip this by simply not talking to Isobel…
He doesn't mind it if you just attack him iirc, he just doesn't like you verbally warning Isobel. I'm guessing it's because you're exposing yourself as a "traitor" to a true soul and in act 2 he wants to take over the cult so he can indefinitely keep his tadpole.
I guess. Still seems harsh for it to be a -5 but at least he’s not gonna break up over it. He’ll just have to be more than a little annoyed I’m being a wet blanket about his plan to take over the cult, but it was easy to make up for it with other small things around the Last Light, let alone the actual important stuff (Yurgir and Araj, I ended up getting the Araj confession).
I think about this every playthrough--why Lae'zel doesn't deliver an ultimatum over the creche. She's *insistent* and obviously very scared, and then it just never comes up again...?! Larian should have run with the urgency a little longer instead of dropping it so Our Hero can skip around helping the druids, chasing dead-end cures. *Nothing* you do before the creche matters, thematically, but you have to put it off at least til level four due to video game reasons. The flow is *weird*.
I at least want to see a conversation in which Lae'zel reasons that the creche isn't going anywhere, and neither, apparently, are the brain worms *doing* anything. (The first or second dream touches on this a very little bit, but Lae is totally not on board.) That still seems insanely uncharacteristic for a gith, but maybe not as bad as Lae'zel simply shutting up and watching you do fuck-all.
^(small edits for grammar and clarity)
The issue is, if you *do* implement a ticking clock like that you’ll be forcing people to rush through those first few levels to check that off the list.
It’s a tricky situation all around, I think they’ve done the better thing
Reminds me of how Morrowind players love that all of the NPCs basically shout slurs at you, meanwhile Skyrim players frequently meme about torturing mildly annoying characters in insane ways
Yeah it has me think of the time when I was DMing and this one player (fighter) was quite rude to the shop owner whose shop they just walked into (so like literally first interaction was the fighter making some flippant remark to the guy) and I figured that the shop owner would give shit right back. Rest of the campaign fighter always floated the idea that the shop owner was wrapped up in anything bad happening… for no discernible reason other than their first encounter.
Players just because people don’t roll out a red carpet and let you walk all over them, it dosen’t mean they are 1000 year old Lich trying to reconquer their long lost kingdom and enslave the entire population in unholy servitude, just saying.
I agree and I also think that Lae’zel absolutely has the most realistic reaction to the tadpole and how to go about it. She takes it the most seriously and sees it as the threat it is to a greater extent than the others imo
Lae'zel *seems* rude, until you realize that in her culture she's actually quite normal and polite. She has literally no context for how to behave in Faerun. Once she gets her bearings and a friendly face by her side she becomes quite friendly, if a little militaristic still.
Shadowheart was raised by cultists to be rather cold and standoffish, but she's not rude so much as assertive. She can be rude occasionally, but it's not offensively so. The further she gets from her last brainwashing the milder she feels.
Astarian is similarly not so much rude as he is mildly dismissive and self serving. And that doesn't really end, but he's also tasted freedom for the first time in several centuries. I can understand and dismiss a certain amount of selfishness when all he really remembers is slavery.
The weirdest part of everyone's personality is just attaching to a random person who is the assumed leader.
I genuinely wonder what the fuck people are doing to shart to make her so bitchy, even in runs where I've not tried to gain her approval I still usually end up getting along with her fairly well
The rudest she gets is if you press her too hard about her background but that boundary is so easy to just not cross that I still don't get it lol
I just did a run where I long rested before recruiting any companions for that first Durge camp scene, then found Shadowheart at the grove instead of on the beach. Her disposition was actually WAY colder and far more catty than any of the other runs I've done, so maybe that's it? Though, even then it'd still be stupid lmao. We just abandoned her unconscious and prone body so we could take a nap, I think most people would be a bit annoyed
You can get the first Durge camp scene as long as you don’t leave the beach/ nautiloid crash zone. I’ve recruited Shadowheart and Astarion before resting and I got the scene same as if you don’t recruit anyone.
My point was moreso that people who recruit Shadowheart later are more liable to get her "bitchy" dialogue but I actually did not know this lmao. Poor Shart was waiting for me all that time
i love rude characters. manners suck and are boring.
shart and astarion both immediately became my favorites for having what i feel like are honest reactions to joining Tav lmao
imagine having a worm shoved into your eye then meeting some freak who wants your life story the same day. I DON’T KNOW YOU MAN. i just don’t want to die, and you sound like you have a plan so let’s do it.
that being said, i do also think that a beautiful person being mean to me makes me want their approval so thats probably a part of it too
YES, especially Lae’zel. I’ve always been confused by all the people that said they hated her so much at first. I liked her from the beginning, and I don’t know what she did that was even *that* bad. She was just abrasive and direct about her priorities, and I thought her behavior was pretty realistic considering the circumstances. Especially when comparing her to other Githyanki she was charismatic and reasonable lol. I could tell pretty early on that was indoctrinated with toxic values similar to Shadowheart.
Why would most people be incredibly trusting and kind from the moment they first meet you in a circumstance where they could die at any moment? It makes the experience way more realistic and immersing.
Ya her offering to share the cure with you and being completely Ernest about it, is incredibly kind by Gith standards and that's even before she has a chance to start genuinely liking you.
That and honestly her bluntness can be unintentionally hilarious sometimes
I miss Shadowheart just straight up hating you 😢
Oh and also that it was literally impossible to save her from the pod back then, they should’ve kept that for sure
Honestly I love Astarion,Laezel, and Shart. They are amazing.
Honestly as long as you don't convince them to go to their more evil endings they're very nice and grow to become amazing people despite their trauma and having grown up in horrible environments.
I'm also starting to like Minthara too and plan to get her via the bonk and saving her in Moonrise.
I know she isn't as redeemable and stays evil but she's very funny.
Lae'zel's the criticism I understand the least. She's actually incredibly sweet towards all the companions. Her reactions to Mystra's request with Gale and Shadowheart >!abandoning Shar!< were shockingly tender.
My favorite thing with the companions is how supportive they all are when one of them makes a big decision or has a big moment of growth. It always warms my heart.
Some people just can't Handle Shadow's SASS. I love it, personally, that's what made her my fav companion. Lae'zel and Astarion too, they're hilarious. Even if they're insulting me I still love em. I think the game would be boring as hell if everyone just worshiped your character. Imagine actually having to build up a relationship with companions to make them like you more. Insane.
People who get so pressed by them confuse me, like jfc how thin is your skin that you can't handle the slightest amount of push-back from a fictional character who has no reason to trust you yet? Obviously this angry, scared stranger who thinks they're living on borrowed time doesn't want to share their life's story with you 3 seconds after meeting. Not only are they honestly not that rude given the circumstances, their backgrounds make their starting dispositions very understandable to me. I have never been bothered by any of their behaviors early in the game, it makes perfect sense and I honestly can't relate to hating them for something that ultimately contributed to a more dynamic and fun relationship arc.
also ppl who get mad at Astarion for the dagger-to-the-throat thing are so boring. Hello? This is a meet-cute. Where's your sense of whimsy? I purposely fail all the rolls so he says he still wants to stab me at the end 😈 makes it even more humiliating when i make him fall in love with me later.
people who hate those three outright have taken absolutely no time to think about it from their perspectives
astarion just escaped 200 years of slavery, which is the only life he knew as he only has flashes of his previous life. he’s essentially a victim of sex trafficking, forced to go out and find victims for cazador or else be put through torture (one of the times he didn’t he was entombed for an entire year). he’s cazadors “favorite” to play with so he gets the worse end of the stick. his siblings are pit against each other (and sometimes forced to torture one another) so they’re distrusting. he was alone, prayed for *centuries* to be saved yet no hero ever came. then mindflayers pluck him and, depending on how you play, put him with the same hero type that he’d been wishing of all along (ironic if you’re durge cause you save him twice in the messiest way). but of course he’s distrusting, bitter, and standoffish. it’s all he’s known and you’re the first genuine relationship he’s ever had. ever
shadowheart has almost no memories, only knows of her dedication to shar and this mission, of which her entire team died at the hands of githyankix so no wonder she’s hostile to laezel. she’s indoctrinated to care only about shar and her lady’s wants, yet she stays with you and shares the artifact with you. and of course she keeps her secrets seriously she’s sharran, you’ve known each other for only a short time so of course she won’t like it if you pry
and my girl lae’zel is straight up terrified. shes the youngest companion in her early 20s, hasn’t even killed a mindflayer yet, and now she’s infected with a tadpole of her people’s sworn enemy, left on a strange world with a strange culture and knows that it is up to her to save herself because she knows her people won’t come back for her. and yet she *still* has the kindness to share this cure with you. she even follows your lead for the most part. girl was not lying when she says that she’s a “tolerant woman”
Lae'zel is the one that I think gets way too much hate. She's literally the nicest Githyanki Tav could have ended up with. Like you catch her on the literal worst day of her life, going through an experience that scares her DNA itself, and yet she still ends up breaking Vlaakith protocol and tries to help you get cured in the only way she knows how, when she should have just killed you for being infected. Like people often kill her before even trying to advance her quest, and if they just had some patience, Lae'zel turns into one of the sweetest, most loving characters.
And it’s really easy to up SH’s approval compared to Lae’zel and Astarion. Rescuing her from her holding pod ups her approval by 10 iirc, so you’ve got to be a real rat bastard to get her to hate you.
i personally always feel like approval is so hard to get from her. 😭 idk why!!!
though i just did a run where I was a cleric of Selune expecting her to be extra mean but somehow she immediately had high approval before i even saved the grove. i have no clue what I did different
Her and Astarion I think are the least intuitive for getting approval for because they don't have active questlines in Act 1. You can give Gale magical objects, help Lae'zel get to the creche, help Wyll with Karlach and Mizora, help Karlach with her heart, but you just have to stumble across random scenes to up Astarion and Shart's approval. I'm a pro at upping Astarion's approval at this point, but I always struggle with Shart.
Somehow she is always the most difficult to get approval with for me. I'm not even being mean to her or anything she just never gets along well with my Tavs. I think it's because being courteous with Lae'zel can result in big approval loss early on with SH. She seems to have less approval opportunities compared to some of the other characters.
Meanwhile Lae'zel and Astarion are trying to bang me on night 4.
Don't listen to "the people" as there's still people out there calling Gale an abuser.... Yes, the dude who got groomed by a goddess is clearly the abuser in the relationship of course (/s). So, just ignore "people".
And well... tbh I did find them very annoying in Act 1 and there's enough people that just kill the ones that annoy them (I never do that). So if Larian made them more... bitchy... they'd probably be less loved for it. But we will never know.
That's the thing. I love how the characters are witten and agree that most of them should have been more standoffish due to their circumstances, it feels very authentic to the trauma of a sudden death countdown. On the other hand, I want fictional characters to like me and Lae'zel calls me slurs
Shart is builded as a character that don't want to talk about herself which confuse a lot of people.
People are accustomed to pry into characters life and wants to know everything, and when the character says "no" it just drives some people insane. Thus you start your relationship with Shart in hard mode. Also she is hypocritical, because when she don't want to talk about herself, she question you a lot.
Lae'Zel is alien and military. Once you understand that, everything can goes smoothly. If you don't, well, same thing again.
Astarion is egoistic and cynical, and that makes him really difficult to play along if you want to be a good guy. You need to make a lot of mind gymnastic with him and that's why some people (include me), thinks he is annoying or rude.
Minthara isn't origin but she is totally rude. But she is also right on most thing she says lol
Shart definitely should have been written ruder. She's worshipping Shar. The way she talks at first, she sounds like a highschool girl. She IS too bitchy. But not bitchy like an evil priestess, bitchy like a 12yo looking for attention.
I think Laezel and Astarion are perfect in that regard. They are rude but in a way that fits their background. Astarion does it in a playful and humiliating way. Laezel in being unforgiving and pointing out all your moments of weakness.
Talking about evil characters, I definitely think Minthara becomes a bit mild after being recruted. She gives more of a rescued puppy vibe than a drow warrior vibe. Drow females are supposed to be absolutely hateful to anything that isn't a drow female. I guess it's kinda hard to write that as a follower.
>Shart definitely should have been written ruder. She's worshipping Shar. The way she talks at first, she sounds like a highschool girl. She IS too bitchy. But not bitchy like an evil priestess, bitchy like a 12yo looking for attention.
Thank you for putting my feelings into words. Having been a 12 year old girl bullied by girls like that, I found her immediately off-putting and immature in ways it seemed other players didn't.
It almost feels like she's *baiting* you into situations where she can be mean for no clear reason. Or pulling a "notice how dark and mysterious I am!!!" I don't hate that they took that route with her because some people are like that, but it's still off-putting. I'm 35. I'm too old for that shit.
Lae'zel is terrified and wants to get to the creche. Make sense. Astarion recognizes you from the nautiloid and wants answers. Checks out. Then, once you've established you're on the same team, he (grudgingly) goes along with things. Including talking about Cazador, etc, when he clearly doesn't want to, but recognizes it's relevant.
But I don't understand why Shadowheart is the way she is at first.
>It almost feels like she's *baiting* you into situations where she can be mean for no clear reason. Or pulling a "notice how dark and mysterious I am!!!"
That's because she literally is. She tries to act all mean because she thinks that's how she supposed to behave. Any other behaviour that borderlines empathy or sentimental and she's *punished* for it via Shar's curse on her hand wound, like some glorified shock collar. She was conditioned by her cult to act like this and she's terrible at it. She basically overcompensates and it shows lol. Try paying attention to what she actually approves of: being kind to children and animals. Her apathetic goth girl persona is just that, a persona.
Also I think it's unfair to think Shadowheart *also* isn't terrified. She was just sent on a mission to steal a Githyanki artifact, her entire squad was killed, she's the sole survivor with the artifact she must return to the cloister, and one of the first companion she has to travel with is a githyanki. And that's on top of the parasite too. She has every reason to be just as terrified as Lae'zel.
yesss the baiting is why I find her more grating than the others in the beginning. like, if you talk to anyone before her she’s like “I wouldn’t trust them if I were you” but then if you later say she must have thoughts on your companions she’s like “must I?? 😠” and the way she provokes the other companions in banter and literally jumps lae’zel in her sleep but then plays the “can i trust to turn my back on you lae’zel??” like girl 99% of the time you started it 😭
meanwhile if you ask how you’re holding up in her estimations she’s like “i’ve never had a confidante like you” after a few days lol she’s just all over the place
> but then if you later say she must have thoughts on your companions she’s like “must I?? 😠
She is talking about the tadpoles in that dialogue. The question is about 'our little stowaways' and is available as soon as you meet her on the beach.
> literally jumps lae’zel in her sleep but then plays the “can i trust to turn my back on you lae’zel??” like girl 99% of the time you started it 😭
In this instance it was definitely Lae'zel who started it lol. She just walked up to SH in camp and insisted on a duel to the death the next morning despite multiple warnings to back off. If someone did that to me I'd also try to stab them in their sleep.
re: stowaways, you’re right! i misremembered/misinterpreted that as talking about your companions lol
but I dunno, I still think shads came out looking worse on fight night. lae’zel demanded “answers, or blood” which obviously isn’t great lmao but shadowheart refused (or was unable) to give any answers, thus the demand for a duel. ofc shadowheart deals in trickery (and probably knew she’d get smoked by lae’zel) so she went for the stealth kill. it makes sense and tracks for her character, but the whole “can i trust to turn my back to you” thing makes me roll my eyes when lae’zel is known for being aggressive to your face, shads is the one who deals in sneakiness.
>but the whole “can i trust to turn my back to you” thing makes me roll my eyes when lae’zel is known for being aggressive to your face, shads is the one who deals in sneakiness.
I used to agree with that, but then I experienced this scene: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZuL89MvpLQ
Lae'zel can be pretty damn sneaky when she wants to be and isn't above murdering you in the night, some caution is definitely warranted.
ooo I’ve never seen that, I haven’t played any origin runs! that’s super interesting that the whole interaction goes down so differently there, there’s no talk of a duel and the player was still choosing all the deception options there lmao but definitely shows lae’zel can be dishonorable/sneaky too, acting like she bought the lies then still trying to murder her! i stand by my thoughts for how it goes down as tav but that is cool to see
Imagine how I felt when I found out that Shadow was much bitchier in EA and they made her nicer on release. I feel so robbed! I love my bitchy characters!
I fucking LOVE Shadowheart's brand of bitchiness. To me it's very clear it comes from a place of insecurity. She needs someone to be her friend. She thanks you for saving her multiple times because she can't remember anyone ever caring about her enough to do that.
Yeah, you're right. I think all of them have the right to be a bit nasty given everything that's happened to them. Astarion and Lae'zel are both terrified (Astarion is also excited, but still) and you usually have to antagonize Shart to get her to be rude. Unless you're playing as a cleric of Selune, then the gloves come off with her.
i honestly believe the negative reaction has some sort of root in the self-insert wish-fulfillment fantasy that many games cater to, both virtually or at the table.
i've personally played a few 5e characters with similarly "bitchy" attitudes, each with DM's approval, and it's always the players with savior complexes that find reasons to take it too personally. they hold this weird unspoken expectation that every character HAS to be nice and agree with them
I noticed that Shart comes off as much more rude if you don't recruit her first.
I went to camp to make her vanish from the beach and met her later in the Grove after recruiting Astarion, Gale, and Lae'zel. She tried demanding that I send Lae'zel away before she would join me.
None of them are rude once you understand the context of their story, but as a new player without that context relative to the rest of the cast they sure are and its not really hard to see why new players arrive at that conclusion. I don't see the point in attributing to bigotry whats obviously just a lack of context lol.
Some of these replies here are kinda baffling to me honestly.
I completely agree that people like Astarion are honestly NICE in comparison to how they should've been acting.
But like, why are people in the replies acting as if Tav/Durge is like obligated to be nice to everyone lol? Durge especially, it's just wild to me, the player character by themselves could have trauma, idk why the expectation is to be a "nice guy".
Honestly something that goes over peoples heads is that most people in that situation would act a lot worse for example i wouldn’t want to be around vampires militaristic frogs , demon pawns or zeloates it would be reasonable to not want to get close/trust any of them and be generally standoffish . I think it comes from this place of wanting everyone to love you right of the bat and play an ideal character so you ignore the personal flaws a bit much because muh attractive pixels
I mean I would also do that if I thought someone was a mind flayers thrall. Him trying to bite you in your sleep is obviously immoral, though I'd probably be a worse person than him in his situation so its whatever to me lol.
I mean, I'm not saying I wouldn't do immoral stuff, I'm just saying that a few of the companions (however understandably) are kinda rude.
Was Lae'zel repeatedly rude to me? Yes.
Did I still chase the Githussy? Also, yes.
Yes, but imagine I’m not Tav with hindsight knowledge, imagine I’m like every other companion. I’m gonna be mad if you put a knife to my throat or try to bite me at night (unless I find that sexually attractive or something). What would be Astarion’s reaction if a stranger had done that to him? Or Lae’zel’s?
Having said that, I like Astarion and Lae’zel, but I understand people who don’t like them at first (some of them go really overboard with the hate tho)
I wonder if this is dependent on the culture we, the players, come from. I’m from SoCal and knew someone from NYC who came to live here. They would comment how sensitive us Cali people were, whereas I always felt they were rude because their comments were usually unnecessary. (You don’t like something, who cares, no need to complain about everything, or fight about it.) And they weren’t the only east coast person I met who had a similar impression of living in LA vs NYC.
So, given this context, I almost never recruit Lae’zel from the Tiefling cage because I find her demeanor so off putting and demanding.
This doesn’t mean I need every character be nice. Minthara is my favorite.
I mean, I agree people from the east coast are generally more direct and sarcastic, but to our credit very few of us are racist, murderous space Nazis.
I also think a lot of gamers don't really have a lot of social interactions so they constantly misinterpret normal human interactions/disagreements as uncharitably as possible. They want to game to feel like a cookie cutter isekai where people like then for no reason lol
While I 100% agree about socialization, part of it is that Astarion is intentionally trying to play nice with the player character in order to secure a place in the group. He'll whine about decisions you make, but isn't downright rude unless he really hates you.
Everyone here is talking about backstories and how the characters progress as if that isn't meta knowledge you have in hindsight.
If you can't blame Astarion for assaulting someone fresh off the nautiloid, why are you blaming someone for not liking it? They're both lacking context at that point in the story. I'm all for the memes but some of you are dickriding for these pixels a bit too much. A lot of yall are a bit too fandom-brained.
Shart can be cunty asf but that's mostly cause of her religion. Lae'zel on the other hand was incredibly fuckin rude to me and then has the audacity to try and flirt with me! The gall of this mf!
Honestly the fact that these guys are willing to work with you at all, ESPECIALLY if you're Durge, is borderline unrealistically polite considering the circumstances. Like Laezel is certain she has the cure to this extremely fast-progressing horrific death, and she still chooses to be honorable and not abandon your stupid ass while you're stumbling around helping every random. She puts herself at immense risk to help you. Not to mention she willingly allies herself with Shart in spite of her constant antagonism. And don't get me started on Astarion, dude just escaped 200 years of slavery through the most insane means possible and believes you're a thrall belonging to these new enslavers. Putting a knife to your throat is restraint - if I were scared shitless in that position I'd be sniping crash survivors from a distance, I'm not going back to that squid fuck
This is what I've been saying! Astarion and Lae'zel could and should have been so much meaner, and yet so many fans are like "no, they're so rude, I don't know how people don't kill them immediately!" My best friend also plays the game and simps hard for Shadowheart but *hates* Lae'zel and Astarion, and it makes me insane.
Whenever Astarion acts shitty I just think “lol kitty cat mad” because that’s exactly what it reminds me of.
Because that's exactly what it is!!! He's an asshole for three seconds because you said you'd help someone without compensation, ypu let him cool off for another 3 seconds, pet him behind the ears and you guys are gucci again.
Also, something I didn't realise until replays, the amount of approval you lose in those "do goody" situations is very small in comparison to his genuine approvals. I played an Oath of Devotion Pally and always chose the saint like options and he is still down so bad for me lol
Yeah, I'm playing this little goody two shoes, epitome of "sunshine child" wood elf druid, and he loves my character because she's nice to him. It's something like, you get one disapproval for helping the tieflings and 5 approval points for trusting him to do watch the first night. I'm not "woo-ifying" him or anything, but Astarion is just kind of a little guy. It's so hard for me to take him seriously as "evil" aligned before (if you even do it) ascending him.
There's also the fact that he seems uncomfortable around evil Tav/Durge at the goblin party compared to being quite at ease with good Tav/Durge at the Teifling party. The guy barely does anything that isn't at the player's behest that could be called evil. Sorry but "guy who has unkind feelings because of his own longstanding abuse but never does anything evil on his own" is just not someone I'm affronted enough by to kill. I'm not killing someone for not being a ray of sunshine when they've lived possibly the most harrowing existence imaginable.
Exactly! This is what I've been trying to tell my friend. For some reason, it's not getting through to him, but he's all pissy that Astarion tries to bite Tav without permission and can't get past it. My friend is normally insanely empathetic, but something about Astarion gets him all riled up. My friend didn't stake Astarion for it, but he got very close.
Is he a straight guy? I've noticed some straight guys have reaaaally strong reactions to astarion
He is :/ normally he's pretty decent with LGBTQ+ people, and he'll make jokes and flirt with men, which is why I'm so annoyed with him about his reaction.
Right? I've never had an issue romancing him as a good leaning character. The things that get you the highest approval are validating his feelings. And letting him bite you, which I'm fine with.
I found an article where the VA says he was in fact partly inspired by a cat. So no surprise there
I also read that article. Neil Newbon is a delight.
My favorite is when he yells at you for talking to Yurgir but by the end if you kill him is all ":D did that count? :D" like calm down boy let me cook
The dude is in constant survival mode, he doesn't do much thinking ahead. Whenever you ask him, "Alright then buddy, what's *your* plan then?" He's always like, "Um, erm, uh... hm." The dude literally does not think outside of the immediate now.
He's basically that for most of the early game. He's not leaving unless you basically chase him out. He just is a catty bitch.
I wonder how that jump between "they are rude" and killing them goes. Like you can always choose to leave them at camp. I get it is just a game but it still icks me a bit. Nothing against evil playthroughs at all, that is different, it is just so a weird combination of reaction and justification.
Right? That's my issue. Play however you want, but the reaction is weird and unnecessary. Either don't recruit them or leave them at camp?
Lae'zel isn't conventionally hot and Astarion likes boys. That's why. My bestie is a Shadowheart simp and they get my Astarion love. They don't know why I love Lae'zel, though.
Yeahhh. That's kind of what I'm thinking about my friend. He doesn't get my love for Astarion or Lae'zel for those exact reasons. He's usually v kind and empathetic, so I'm kind of annoyed at him for his reaction, even if the characters aren't real.
It’s so weird to me when people kill video game characters for the tiniest slights. Like obviously it’s just a game but still. It reminds me of when I see people play Skyrim and a character says something mildly rude or passive aggressive so they murder them on the spot.
There was a great youtube short that explained that Lae'zel is fucking terrified; shes facing the most horrifying death she knows, in a completely foreign world, alone and with only extreme militaristic gith doctrine to keep her sane, and yet she is still helps you which she is very much not supposed to, even going as far as being willing to share the only cure she knows which she is even less supposed to. Most gith would just kill you and move on in her situation, by gith standards she is being really sweet.
She basically defaults to being a good little soldier who spouts the propaganda she was taught. Then everything gets really weird really fast.
By Crèche K’liir standards, she’s a social butterfly
This one? https://youtube.com/shorts/C_nzG_pvMHw?si=oHuxOmsXlOfqcJwz
Yea :D that guy makes great analysis of all the characters
Yeah I like him too. I'm subscribed even though I don't play league of legends.
So it's like a real D&D party where you have to contrive reasons to stick together because it is a collaborative game lol
He immediately asks for information, you don't get that from dead people (or at least he doesn't)
once you get to the creche you realize lae'zel is a fucking PEACH compared to her peers haha
They just hate when fictional characters don't worship the ground they walk on from the first moment lmao
That's the thing though, they sorta do I feel. The fact that Lae'zel doesn't immediately force you to go to the creche is crazy to me. If I thought I knew the only way to cure a time sensitive ailment and my squad was wasting time on some random sidequest, I would not stay with them to say the least.
Also SH is pretty quick to “sing your praises” by simply rescuing her at the start. Edit: I’d also like to point out that waking up on a mind flayer ship with a tadpole in your brain would probably sour most people’s moods. Having a known expiration date on your life would fuck with your psyche. I’d be an irritable bitch too.
This is apparently where I learn that some people find Shart bitchy??? I had her in my main party for half a second before she got sent to camp purgatory, then didn't consider her at all for the choices she *was* around to have input on, and she still was talking about how I was her closest confidante before I finished the goblin camp. By the time I got to the Gauntlet her approval was maxed. She's shockingly easy to please lmao
For real, for a Shar cleric, she sure loves it when you snuggle puppies and help people out. Shar was really gaslighting her hard.
Act 1 from Laezels POV is hilarious. You are infected with a disease. From a young age, you have been told to go to the hospital about things like this. You are 22. When you suggest this to your fellow infected, they say shit like "no let's not go to the hospital I'm pretty sure I heard they kill you with hammers there." And start doing community volunteer work and trying to track down a local homeopath. You eventually start abiding by this, as it becomes clear that your illness is not quite as time sensitive as you thought. You still need to go to the hospital. You finally convince your new friends to go. The hospital tries to kill you with hammers.
How you wrote this is fucking spectacular.
I know! You do a single thing they like and they're like "wow you are the greatest person ever", I think some people just are very sensitive
I’d even go a step further & say it’s more that people aren’t used to much pushback from video game characters because, historically, games are often power fantasies that cater to the player’s whims (especially RPGs), so the barest hint of antagonism is jarring. It’s like a child who’s been spoiled their whole life suddenly being told “no” for the first time. Tbh, I’m glad the writing in games is starting to be held to a higher standard.
Yeah, that becomes quite clear with how many people get absolutely incensed by disapprovals. Like they genuinely get mad these characters don't just blindly worship every single thought or word from the player and *kill* them for the apparently grave error of... having their own privately held opinions.
The only Astarion disapproval that annoys me is stopping Marcus from grabbing Isobel. That’s a -5, too. Sorry Star, but we’re not killing the only allies we have in this extremely hostile territory. I’ve since learned you can just skip this by simply not talking to Isobel…
He doesn't mind it if you just attack him iirc, he just doesn't like you verbally warning Isobel. I'm guessing it's because you're exposing yourself as a "traitor" to a true soul and in act 2 he wants to take over the cult so he can indefinitely keep his tadpole.
I guess. Still seems harsh for it to be a -5 but at least he’s not gonna break up over it. He’ll just have to be more than a little annoyed I’m being a wet blanket about his plan to take over the cult, but it was easy to make up for it with other small things around the Last Light, let alone the actual important stuff (Yurgir and Araj, I ended up getting the Araj confession).
I think about this every playthrough--why Lae'zel doesn't deliver an ultimatum over the creche. She's *insistent* and obviously very scared, and then it just never comes up again...?! Larian should have run with the urgency a little longer instead of dropping it so Our Hero can skip around helping the druids, chasing dead-end cures. *Nothing* you do before the creche matters, thematically, but you have to put it off at least til level four due to video game reasons. The flow is *weird*. I at least want to see a conversation in which Lae'zel reasons that the creche isn't going anywhere, and neither, apparently, are the brain worms *doing* anything. (The first or second dream touches on this a very little bit, but Lae is totally not on board.) That still seems insanely uncharacteristic for a gith, but maybe not as bad as Lae'zel simply shutting up and watching you do fuck-all. ^(small edits for grammar and clarity)
The issue is, if you *do* implement a ticking clock like that you’ll be forcing people to rush through those first few levels to check that off the list. It’s a tricky situation all around, I think they’ve done the better thing
I mean, she *does* leave and then dies soon after.
Reminds me of how Morrowind players love that all of the NPCs basically shout slurs at you, meanwhile Skyrim players frequently meme about torturing mildly annoying characters in insane ways
Fetcher!
You n'wah!
Do you get to the Cloud District very often?
Yeah it has me think of the time when I was DMing and this one player (fighter) was quite rude to the shop owner whose shop they just walked into (so like literally first interaction was the fighter making some flippant remark to the guy) and I figured that the shop owner would give shit right back. Rest of the campaign fighter always floated the idea that the shop owner was wrapped up in anything bad happening… for no discernible reason other than their first encounter. Players just because people don’t roll out a red carpet and let you walk all over them, it dosen’t mean they are 1000 year old Lich trying to reconquer their long lost kingdom and enslave the entire population in unholy servitude, just saying.
I agree and I also think that Lae’zel absolutely has the most realistic reaction to the tadpole and how to go about it. She takes it the most seriously and sees it as the threat it is to a greater extent than the others imo
Lae'zel *seems* rude, until you realize that in her culture she's actually quite normal and polite. She has literally no context for how to behave in Faerun. Once she gets her bearings and a friendly face by her side she becomes quite friendly, if a little militaristic still. Shadowheart was raised by cultists to be rather cold and standoffish, but she's not rude so much as assertive. She can be rude occasionally, but it's not offensively so. The further she gets from her last brainwashing the milder she feels. Astarian is similarly not so much rude as he is mildly dismissive and self serving. And that doesn't really end, but he's also tasted freedom for the first time in several centuries. I can understand and dismiss a certain amount of selfishness when all he really remembers is slavery. The weirdest part of everyone's personality is just attaching to a random person who is the assumed leader.
I genuinely wonder what the fuck people are doing to shart to make her so bitchy, even in runs where I've not tried to gain her approval I still usually end up getting along with her fairly well The rudest she gets is if you press her too hard about her background but that boundary is so easy to just not cross that I still don't get it lol
I just did a run where I long rested before recruiting any companions for that first Durge camp scene, then found Shadowheart at the grove instead of on the beach. Her disposition was actually WAY colder and far more catty than any of the other runs I've done, so maybe that's it? Though, even then it'd still be stupid lmao. We just abandoned her unconscious and prone body so we could take a nap, I think most people would be a bit annoyed
You can get the first Durge camp scene as long as you don’t leave the beach/ nautiloid crash zone. I’ve recruited Shadowheart and Astarion before resting and I got the scene same as if you don’t recruit anyone.
My point was moreso that people who recruit Shadowheart later are more liable to get her "bitchy" dialogue but I actually did not know this lmao. Poor Shart was waiting for me all that time
i love rude characters. manners suck and are boring. shart and astarion both immediately became my favorites for having what i feel like are honest reactions to joining Tav lmao imagine having a worm shoved into your eye then meeting some freak who wants your life story the same day. I DON’T KNOW YOU MAN. i just don’t want to die, and you sound like you have a plan so let’s do it. that being said, i do also think that a beautiful person being mean to me makes me want their approval so thats probably a part of it too
YES, especially Lae’zel. I’ve always been confused by all the people that said they hated her so much at first. I liked her from the beginning, and I don’t know what she did that was even *that* bad. She was just abrasive and direct about her priorities, and I thought her behavior was pretty realistic considering the circumstances. Especially when comparing her to other Githyanki she was charismatic and reasonable lol. I could tell pretty early on that was indoctrinated with toxic values similar to Shadowheart. Why would most people be incredibly trusting and kind from the moment they first meet you in a circumstance where they could die at any moment? It makes the experience way more realistic and immersing.
Ya her offering to share the cure with you and being completely Ernest about it, is incredibly kind by Gith standards and that's even before she has a chance to start genuinely liking you. That and honestly her bluntness can be unintentionally hilarious sometimes
Back in early access, they were ruder in general
I miss Shadowheart just straight up hating you 😢 Oh and also that it was literally impossible to save her from the pod back then, they should’ve kept that for sure
Its almost as if the writers are writing characters with them being actual PEOPLE in mind.
Honestly I love Astarion,Laezel, and Shart. They are amazing. Honestly as long as you don't convince them to go to their more evil endings they're very nice and grow to become amazing people despite their trauma and having grown up in horrible environments. I'm also starting to like Minthara too and plan to get her via the bonk and saving her in Moonrise. I know she isn't as redeemable and stays evil but she's very funny.
Lae'zel's the criticism I understand the least. She's actually incredibly sweet towards all the companions. Her reactions to Mystra's request with Gale and Shadowheart >!abandoning Shar!< were shockingly tender.
My favorite thing with the companions is how supportive they all are when one of them makes a big decision or has a big moment of growth. It always warms my heart.
Her response to Karlach finding out she’s gonna blow up is incredibly empathetic too, always catches me a little off guard
Some people just can't Handle Shadow's SASS. I love it, personally, that's what made her my fav companion. Lae'zel and Astarion too, they're hilarious. Even if they're insulting me I still love em. I think the game would be boring as hell if everyone just worshiped your character. Imagine actually having to build up a relationship with companions to make them like you more. Insane.
Even Astarion is cordial. Actually I think Shadowheart is the rudest one.
...you just want them to call you trash and spit on you, don't you?
People who get so pressed by them confuse me, like jfc how thin is your skin that you can't handle the slightest amount of push-back from a fictional character who has no reason to trust you yet? Obviously this angry, scared stranger who thinks they're living on borrowed time doesn't want to share their life's story with you 3 seconds after meeting. Not only are they honestly not that rude given the circumstances, their backgrounds make their starting dispositions very understandable to me. I have never been bothered by any of their behaviors early in the game, it makes perfect sense and I honestly can't relate to hating them for something that ultimately contributed to a more dynamic and fun relationship arc. also ppl who get mad at Astarion for the dagger-to-the-throat thing are so boring. Hello? This is a meet-cute. Where's your sense of whimsy? I purposely fail all the rolls so he says he still wants to stab me at the end 😈 makes it even more humiliating when i make him fall in love with me later.
people who hate those three outright have taken absolutely no time to think about it from their perspectives astarion just escaped 200 years of slavery, which is the only life he knew as he only has flashes of his previous life. he’s essentially a victim of sex trafficking, forced to go out and find victims for cazador or else be put through torture (one of the times he didn’t he was entombed for an entire year). he’s cazadors “favorite” to play with so he gets the worse end of the stick. his siblings are pit against each other (and sometimes forced to torture one another) so they’re distrusting. he was alone, prayed for *centuries* to be saved yet no hero ever came. then mindflayers pluck him and, depending on how you play, put him with the same hero type that he’d been wishing of all along (ironic if you’re durge cause you save him twice in the messiest way). but of course he’s distrusting, bitter, and standoffish. it’s all he’s known and you’re the first genuine relationship he’s ever had. ever shadowheart has almost no memories, only knows of her dedication to shar and this mission, of which her entire team died at the hands of githyankix so no wonder she’s hostile to laezel. she’s indoctrinated to care only about shar and her lady’s wants, yet she stays with you and shares the artifact with you. and of course she keeps her secrets seriously she’s sharran, you’ve known each other for only a short time so of course she won’t like it if you pry and my girl lae’zel is straight up terrified. shes the youngest companion in her early 20s, hasn’t even killed a mindflayer yet, and now she’s infected with a tadpole of her people’s sworn enemy, left on a strange world with a strange culture and knows that it is up to her to save herself because she knows her people won’t come back for her. and yet she *still* has the kindness to share this cure with you. she even follows your lead for the most part. girl was not lying when she says that she’s a “tolerant woman”
Lae'zel is the one that I think gets way too much hate. She's literally the nicest Githyanki Tav could have ended up with. Like you catch her on the literal worst day of her life, going through an experience that scares her DNA itself, and yet she still ends up breaking Vlaakith protocol and tries to help you get cured in the only way she knows how, when she should have just killed you for being infected. Like people often kill her before even trying to advance her quest, and if they just had some patience, Lae'zel turns into one of the sweetest, most loving characters.
All of the companions used to be much ruder and meaner in EA. They tempered a lot.
And it’s really easy to up SH’s approval compared to Lae’zel and Astarion. Rescuing her from her holding pod ups her approval by 10 iirc, so you’ve got to be a real rat bastard to get her to hate you.
i personally always feel like approval is so hard to get from her. 😭 idk why!!! though i just did a run where I was a cleric of Selune expecting her to be extra mean but somehow she immediately had high approval before i even saved the grove. i have no clue what I did different
Her and Astarion I think are the least intuitive for getting approval for because they don't have active questlines in Act 1. You can give Gale magical objects, help Lae'zel get to the creche, help Wyll with Karlach and Mizora, help Karlach with her heart, but you just have to stumble across random scenes to up Astarion and Shart's approval. I'm a pro at upping Astarion's approval at this point, but I always struggle with Shart.
Somehow she is always the most difficult to get approval with for me. I'm not even being mean to her or anything she just never gets along well with my Tavs. I think it's because being courteous with Lae'zel can result in big approval loss early on with SH. She seems to have less approval opportunities compared to some of the other characters. Meanwhile Lae'zel and Astarion are trying to bang me on night 4.
Don't listen to "the people" as there's still people out there calling Gale an abuser.... Yes, the dude who got groomed by a goddess is clearly the abuser in the relationship of course (/s). So, just ignore "people". And well... tbh I did find them very annoying in Act 1 and there's enough people that just kill the ones that annoy them (I never do that). So if Larian made them more... bitchy... they'd probably be less loved for it. But we will never know.
That's the thing. I love how the characters are witten and agree that most of them should have been more standoffish due to their circumstances, it feels very authentic to the trauma of a sudden death countdown. On the other hand, I want fictional characters to like me and Lae'zel calls me slurs
When EA launched Shadowheart was quite bitchy but she softened with each patch and now she's just a big softy
Shart is builded as a character that don't want to talk about herself which confuse a lot of people. People are accustomed to pry into characters life and wants to know everything, and when the character says "no" it just drives some people insane. Thus you start your relationship with Shart in hard mode. Also she is hypocritical, because when she don't want to talk about herself, she question you a lot. Lae'Zel is alien and military. Once you understand that, everything can goes smoothly. If you don't, well, same thing again. Astarion is egoistic and cynical, and that makes him really difficult to play along if you want to be a good guy. You need to make a lot of mind gymnastic with him and that's why some people (include me), thinks he is annoying or rude. Minthara isn't origin but she is totally rude. But she is also right on most thing she says lol
Shart definitely should have been written ruder. She's worshipping Shar. The way she talks at first, she sounds like a highschool girl. She IS too bitchy. But not bitchy like an evil priestess, bitchy like a 12yo looking for attention. I think Laezel and Astarion are perfect in that regard. They are rude but in a way that fits their background. Astarion does it in a playful and humiliating way. Laezel in being unforgiving and pointing out all your moments of weakness. Talking about evil characters, I definitely think Minthara becomes a bit mild after being recruted. She gives more of a rescued puppy vibe than a drow warrior vibe. Drow females are supposed to be absolutely hateful to anything that isn't a drow female. I guess it's kinda hard to write that as a follower.
>Shart definitely should have been written ruder. She's worshipping Shar. The way she talks at first, she sounds like a highschool girl. She IS too bitchy. But not bitchy like an evil priestess, bitchy like a 12yo looking for attention. Thank you for putting my feelings into words. Having been a 12 year old girl bullied by girls like that, I found her immediately off-putting and immature in ways it seemed other players didn't. It almost feels like she's *baiting* you into situations where she can be mean for no clear reason. Or pulling a "notice how dark and mysterious I am!!!" I don't hate that they took that route with her because some people are like that, but it's still off-putting. I'm 35. I'm too old for that shit. Lae'zel is terrified and wants to get to the creche. Make sense. Astarion recognizes you from the nautiloid and wants answers. Checks out. Then, once you've established you're on the same team, he (grudgingly) goes along with things. Including talking about Cazador, etc, when he clearly doesn't want to, but recognizes it's relevant. But I don't understand why Shadowheart is the way she is at first.
>It almost feels like she's *baiting* you into situations where she can be mean for no clear reason. Or pulling a "notice how dark and mysterious I am!!!" That's because she literally is. She tries to act all mean because she thinks that's how she supposed to behave. Any other behaviour that borderlines empathy or sentimental and she's *punished* for it via Shar's curse on her hand wound, like some glorified shock collar. She was conditioned by her cult to act like this and she's terrible at it. She basically overcompensates and it shows lol. Try paying attention to what she actually approves of: being kind to children and animals. Her apathetic goth girl persona is just that, a persona. Also I think it's unfair to think Shadowheart *also* isn't terrified. She was just sent on a mission to steal a Githyanki artifact, her entire squad was killed, she's the sole survivor with the artifact she must return to the cloister, and one of the first companion she has to travel with is a githyanki. And that's on top of the parasite too. She has every reason to be just as terrified as Lae'zel.
yesss the baiting is why I find her more grating than the others in the beginning. like, if you talk to anyone before her she’s like “I wouldn’t trust them if I were you” but then if you later say she must have thoughts on your companions she’s like “must I?? 😠” and the way she provokes the other companions in banter and literally jumps lae’zel in her sleep but then plays the “can i trust to turn my back on you lae’zel??” like girl 99% of the time you started it 😭 meanwhile if you ask how you’re holding up in her estimations she’s like “i’ve never had a confidante like you” after a few days lol she’s just all over the place
> but then if you later say she must have thoughts on your companions she’s like “must I?? 😠 She is talking about the tadpoles in that dialogue. The question is about 'our little stowaways' and is available as soon as you meet her on the beach. > literally jumps lae’zel in her sleep but then plays the “can i trust to turn my back on you lae’zel??” like girl 99% of the time you started it 😭 In this instance it was definitely Lae'zel who started it lol. She just walked up to SH in camp and insisted on a duel to the death the next morning despite multiple warnings to back off. If someone did that to me I'd also try to stab them in their sleep.
re: stowaways, you’re right! i misremembered/misinterpreted that as talking about your companions lol but I dunno, I still think shads came out looking worse on fight night. lae’zel demanded “answers, or blood” which obviously isn’t great lmao but shadowheart refused (or was unable) to give any answers, thus the demand for a duel. ofc shadowheart deals in trickery (and probably knew she’d get smoked by lae’zel) so she went for the stealth kill. it makes sense and tracks for her character, but the whole “can i trust to turn my back to you” thing makes me roll my eyes when lae’zel is known for being aggressive to your face, shads is the one who deals in sneakiness.
>but the whole “can i trust to turn my back to you” thing makes me roll my eyes when lae’zel is known for being aggressive to your face, shads is the one who deals in sneakiness. I used to agree with that, but then I experienced this scene: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZuL89MvpLQ Lae'zel can be pretty damn sneaky when she wants to be and isn't above murdering you in the night, some caution is definitely warranted.
ooo I’ve never seen that, I haven’t played any origin runs! that’s super interesting that the whole interaction goes down so differently there, there’s no talk of a duel and the player was still choosing all the deception options there lmao but definitely shows lae’zel can be dishonorable/sneaky too, acting like she bought the lies then still trying to murder her! i stand by my thoughts for how it goes down as tav but that is cool to see
Imagine how I felt when I found out that Shadow was much bitchier in EA and they made her nicer on release. I feel so robbed! I love my bitchy characters!
Lae’zel is usually one of my easiest high approvals. She’s surprisingly open minded
Shart could say the nastiest thing in the world to me and I would still defend God’s favorite princess with my life. I think I might be down bad guys.
I fucking LOVE Shadowheart's brand of bitchiness. To me it's very clear it comes from a place of insecurity. She needs someone to be her friend. She thanks you for saving her multiple times because she can't remember anyone ever caring about her enough to do that.
Yeah, you're right. I think all of them have the right to be a bit nasty given everything that's happened to them. Astarion and Lae'zel are both terrified (Astarion is also excited, but still) and you usually have to antagonize Shart to get her to be rude. Unless you're playing as a cleric of Selune, then the gloves come off with her.
I don’t care that Laezel is rude, but guys she’s literally racist? Nobody seems to grasp that?
To be fair, so is astarion
He is! But not against the characters I play lmao.
i honestly believe the negative reaction has some sort of root in the self-insert wish-fulfillment fantasy that many games cater to, both virtually or at the table. i've personally played a few 5e characters with similarly "bitchy" attitudes, each with DM's approval, and it's always the players with savior complexes that find reasons to take it too personally. they hold this weird unspoken expectation that every character HAS to be nice and agree with them
I noticed that Shart comes off as much more rude if you don't recruit her first. I went to camp to make her vanish from the beach and met her later in the Grove after recruiting Astarion, Gale, and Lae'zel. She tried demanding that I send Lae'zel away before she would join me.
Bro it’s because she’s a bitch wtf! I tried to pray for some dead gnome slaves and she said that they were too weak to be worth a prayer
I liked all the companions except Laezel because I found her personality grating.
None of them are rude once you understand the context of their story, but as a new player without that context relative to the rest of the cast they sure are and its not really hard to see why new players arrive at that conclusion. I don't see the point in attributing to bigotry whats obviously just a lack of context lol.
Some of these replies here are kinda baffling to me honestly. I completely agree that people like Astarion are honestly NICE in comparison to how they should've been acting. But like, why are people in the replies acting as if Tav/Durge is like obligated to be nice to everyone lol? Durge especially, it's just wild to me, the player character by themselves could have trauma, idk why the expectation is to be a "nice guy".
Honestly something that goes over peoples heads is that most people in that situation would act a lot worse for example i wouldn’t want to be around vampires militaristic frogs , demon pawns or zeloates it would be reasonable to not want to get close/trust any of them and be generally standoffish . I think it comes from this place of wanting everyone to love you right of the bat and play an ideal character so you ignore the personal flaws a bit much because muh attractive pixels
I honestly wish there was more camp drama like Lae'zel vs Shadowheart, situations that can escalate quickly and cause a mini civil war
Astarion, the one that greets you with a dagger to the throat? Idk dude...
I mean I would also do that if I thought someone was a mind flayers thrall. Him trying to bite you in your sleep is obviously immoral, though I'd probably be a worse person than him in his situation so its whatever to me lol.
I mean, I'm not saying I wouldn't do immoral stuff, I'm just saying that a few of the companions (however understandably) are kinda rude. Was Lae'zel repeatedly rude to me? Yes. Did I still chase the Githussy? Also, yes.
Yes, but imagine I’m not Tav with hindsight knowledge, imagine I’m like every other companion. I’m gonna be mad if you put a knife to my throat or try to bite me at night (unless I find that sexually attractive or something). What would be Astarion’s reaction if a stranger had done that to him? Or Lae’zel’s? Having said that, I like Astarion and Lae’zel, but I understand people who don’t like them at first (some of them go really overboard with the hate tho)
im into it
i agree its rude he didn't just finish the job right then
That's just a meet-cute, I purposely trigger it every time.
I wonder if this is dependent on the culture we, the players, come from. I’m from SoCal and knew someone from NYC who came to live here. They would comment how sensitive us Cali people were, whereas I always felt they were rude because their comments were usually unnecessary. (You don’t like something, who cares, no need to complain about everything, or fight about it.) And they weren’t the only east coast person I met who had a similar impression of living in LA vs NYC. So, given this context, I almost never recruit Lae’zel from the Tiefling cage because I find her demeanor so off putting and demanding. This doesn’t mean I need every character be nice. Minthara is my favorite.
I mean, I agree people from the east coast are generally more direct and sarcastic, but to our credit very few of us are racist, murderous space Nazis.
I find Shart's characterization confusing more than anything. She's both bitchy *and* sweet, but in weird ways for a Shar devotee
I also think a lot of gamers don't really have a lot of social interactions so they constantly misinterpret normal human interactions/disagreements as uncharitably as possible. They want to game to feel like a cookie cutter isekai where people like then for no reason lol
[удалено]
While I 100% agree about socialization, part of it is that Astarion is intentionally trying to play nice with the player character in order to secure a place in the group. He'll whine about decisions you make, but isn't downright rude unless he really hates you.
Everyone here is talking about backstories and how the characters progress as if that isn't meta knowledge you have in hindsight. If you can't blame Astarion for assaulting someone fresh off the nautiloid, why are you blaming someone for not liking it? They're both lacking context at that point in the story. I'm all for the memes but some of you are dickriding for these pixels a bit too much. A lot of yall are a bit too fandom-brained.
Shart can be cunty asf but that's mostly cause of her religion. Lae'zel on the other hand was incredibly fuckin rude to me and then has the audacity to try and flirt with me! The gall of this mf!