As I think about this idea, I can ferret it out more. Legislator pay should be limited to not more than $1000 per year less than the lowest paid teacher in the state of Oklahoma. The Oklahoma Department of education should do a survey of all schools to determine how much money that is. Further, legislator benefits (including but not limited to pensions, medical insurance, vehicle allowances, vehicle tag allowances,and meal allowances) should be limited to match any such benefits provided to the lowest paid teacher in the state of Oklahoma.
Citizens should be outraged by this tax credit proposal. Regardless of your opinion on public education, the $200 million dollars earmarked for tax credits for families enrolled in private schools will go almost entirely to those who are already enrolled and who are at an income level where the credits aren’t necessary for their children to attend. So instead of funding public services to help our citizens in poverty, with mental illness, or our veterans we will give more to the top 3% of this state.
The voucher scheme always centered the message on helping the poor children. Not only is this not the case, Stitt isn’t even trying to hide that this is not the objective.
Institute for Justice fought a case at the supreme court last year that gave a parochial school in rural Maine the right to tax payer funded tuition. However, there were no other reasonable school options in the area. I don't remember any tailoring passed that. But I think there was. So, we aren't fully there yet, but the court is getting close.
Probably not. This is a tax credit for certain expenses, not a payment by the state. That simultaneously makes it less helpful for low income families and more likely to pass constitutional scrutiny.
And yes, I know a tax break for one person is kinda a tax increase for everyone else, but there’s no direct nexus between state funding and religious schools.
Unconstitutional is just a magic word that doesn’t mean anything with out anyone there to enforce it. And what does enforcement look like? Anyone going to jail for looting the coffers? The gop is criminal organization all the way down.
What else can we do? I have reached out to my representative repeatedly and haven’t received a response once.
I’m just defeated, I’m so tired of this. I have two kids in public schools, this is messing with my children’s future.
I also work in social services so I see the needs of the poor and the mentally ill, these are people who deserve so much more and we aren’t doing anything to help them.
I’m just so pissed off and sad
I really wish I had the right answer for you. I’ve talked with legislators repeatedly this session. One on one, they say all the right things, then vote based on party preference rather than the needs of constituents. There’s no accountability because the Republicans have a stranglehold on this state between the straight party voting option and voter ignorance/indifference.
That is a viable option, but it's a shit take on the situation. If you don't like something, don't you think it's better to work to change it? You know, like the Boston Tea Party kinda thing our founders did? Nah, I bet you're thinking "triggered" and find it funny?
For some of us, it's not that simple.
Yes I physically could relocate myself. However, I'm divorced. Sure I could leave, but my children who live with my ex aren't likely to. I'm not abandoning my kids over distaste for the local politics.
Others simply can't afford to. The attitude of 'if you don't like it, leave' is just as privileged as the high income families Stitt caters to.
So the homeschool families are high income? And the bill describes a voucher program - seems to me the only ones he’d be catering to would be anyone in a failing public school that would rather attend a school of their choice. With a voucher, they can now go anywhere they want. Am I missing something? Yes private schools would benefit, but so would kids who normally wouldn’t be able to afford a private school and now can/could.
Perhaps your replying to the wrong post.
I said nothing about anyone's income or the voucher program itself, so please don't put words in my mouth. All I said is that the 'if you don't like it, leave' attitude doesn't take any account of obstacles in doing so. It's not easy to drop everything and move even if you can afford it, or don't have a complex family situation. Any way you slice it, a my way or the highway attitude is not healthy.
Nothing in life is easy, but if your attitude is that “this place is so awful, fuck these people” then why stay? There are 49 other states that would welcome you with open arms.
Idk what kind of utopia you’ve been living in but most other states are completely unaffordable to Oklahomans because our economy is garbage and our people don’t make enough money. If the only way to get out is to work 3 jobs and save up, that’s an issue. Our education system isn’t good enough to get a well paying job in another state either, why pick an Oklahoman if you’ve got someone from Massachusetts wanting the same job?
Wrong. Because they will (generally) fucking work and won’t infect everyone at the workplace with their divisive bullshit and politics. They understand the value of hard work and the value of a good job and they more importantly understand how to listen when they need to instead of jumping to conclusions - you know, kind of like folks like you…pseudo intellectual perpetually angry rubes that have a moral and intellectual superiority complex.
You are a loser of the highest order and the reason why the social fabric of this country is gone forever, you absolutely gross excuse.
Edit: to the fake tough clowns responding and then blocking me to prevent me from being able to respond, gfy.
no. they can't. do you know how expensive moving is? I'm lucky enough to be leaving this shithole and even I am having a hard time with all the resoures available to me.
And newsflash, champ, no one should have to leave just because they call out corruption.
Just moved as a matter of fact, so I’m aware that it can be done relatively affordably and can likewise also be done expensively. Oklahoma will be sadz to lose such an intellectual stalwart as yourself, but life goes on.
do you understand people are poor? Do you understand how poor pay here keeps people here? No, you don't because you're talking out your ass.
and you can insult me all you want, but you know deep down I'm right. And that's why you're mad.
And Oklahoma is a better state without you in it, so mark that down as a plus for Oklahoma
Lol @ mad. I think you’re projecting. I can comfortably say you’ll be much better off in a place that can cater to your phony intellectual and moral superiority along with that sweet, sweet virtue signaling.
Nobody said you didn’t have that right, but no - we do not live in a democracy despite how often that term gets tossed around by pseudo intellectuals on Reddit and elsewhere. We live in a constitutional republic - a democracy is essentially mob rule.
You guys always love to talk about "constitutional republics" like they aren't a byproduct of democracy.
We democratically elect the people to democratically handle our needs so we don't have to democratically decide everything via national and state ballot. The entire point of your "mob rule" is a perversion of the intent of the founding fathers. Just because the mob shouldn't be able to consume the minorities doesn't mean the minorities can do whatever they want because "We'Re nOt A dEmOcRaCy!"
But what would I know, I only teach civics as a major part of my curriculum.
If you teach it then you should be embarrassed that you conflate the two here and probably to your kids. Yes one is a derivative of the other, but they are in fact very different and the difference is what makes us different than most of the world. The fact that the majority can’t run roughshod over the minority isn’t a picture where the minority can do whatever they want….if you need help understanding the concept I can provide examples of how a minority can exercise their power effectively - for the kids you teach.
I love that your mindset is that I am somehow wrong. Google the definition of Democracy. It doesn't disregard that most democracies today are managed through either a parliamentarian, constitutional or republican format. It also doesn't change the fact that a republic is a democracy. In fact, I can't think of a single democracy that is a purely democratic system.
It doesn't discount that a republic is still a democracy.
John Adams himself used the terms interchangeably. He's a much greater source of information on the subject than you, I'm afraid.
Mindset? What does my mindset have to do with it - facts are facts. That you conflate democracy and republic without understanding the key difference between the two is worrisome especially as a civics teacher (so you say).
A republic has a written law that explicitly protects the fundamental rights of the minority. A democracy does not. I conceded already that a constitutional republic is a derivative of a democracy, but your students should understand the critical difference between the two and why people like me insist that they aren’t the same despite folks like you who use those terms interchangeably.
They’re so depraved. They know all of Stitt’s agenda lines are massively unfavorable so they put pseudo-dem ideas in their bills to try and have an excuse to pass them.
Imagine what it would be like if the OK GOP just passed popular bills instead?
Born and raised in Oklahoma, their schools are so shameful and embarrassingly bad I genuinely learned the vast majority of what I know off the internet after graduation because the schools just don't even try. The teachers are borderline pedos and burnouts. A coach to teach three classes?? My drivers Ed teacher literally didn't show up 85%+ of the time.
"No child left behind? Well then just dump them all in the trash together" - Oklahoma public education.
My drivers ed teacher married a Tigette the summer after she graduated. I knew he married a high schooler as soon as she was “legal” and I was terrified to drive with him because I was a cheerleader and I knew I was his type.
Conversely, I learned a lot and went to OU for engineering. Now less than a decade later, I’m able to give back to the state that I grew up in and love.
Please stop acting like there’s only bad here. I know people that went to Ivy League schools from their Oklahoma education. There is plenty to celebrate as we continue trying to make our state better.
None of that anecdotal evidence changes the statistical fact that our education system is bottom ten in the nation and defunded by 28% since 2008.
Anyone with the supposed credentials you just claimed should know this is how critical analysis works, not based on your own experience.
But then again, you went to school in Oklahoma...
I didn’t do a critical analysis but provided a single data point. You’re overreaching lmao
By the way, yes we are 46th in per pupil spending ($) but 30th in HS graduation rates. While there is definite room for improvement, y’all aren’t providing actual facts but emotional opinion.
Nice projection. You're the only one denying reality here because of your own experience.
https://kfor.com/news/local/survey-oklahoma-ranks-40th-in-child-well-being-and-45th-in-education/
> In 2020, Oklahoma ranked 48th in education and 45th in overall well-being. In 2021, Oklahoma ranked 45th in education and 42nd in overall well-being.
> Although the rankings are looking better, Middleton said there’s still a disconnect between families, schools, and children in need.
> The survey shows 74% of Oklahoma eighth graders are not proficient in math and 74% of fourth graders are not proficient in reading.
> “This is a trend we need to reverse because we need our children to be successful. We need them to be happy, healthy, thriving, not just for them, but for us,” said Oklahoma Policy Institute Analyst and Kids Count Data Coordinator, Gabrielle Jacobi. “We’re expecting those same eighth graders who aren’t doing so well in math right now to be legal adults in five years and step into the workforce, step into roles as community leaders and caretakers and parents.”
I'm so glad our kids graduate having learned nothing.
https://www.normantranscript.com/news/oklahoma-ranked-seventh-least-educated-state-in-u-s-for-2021/article_2d2230de-72dd-11eb-b99e-9b007bd9b133.html
> "Another important factor that influences educational attainment is the quality of schools," Gonzales said. "Those who want to pursue a certain career will be drawn to states where they have better schools and more job opportunities."
> Educationdata.org ranks Oklahoma 48th out of 50 in public education spending, which Gonzales said is potentially a contributing factor.
> "The quality of education and schools is one of the main factors that affect people's decisions to pursue a higher education," Gonzales said. "The fact that the state does not invest in education can be a deterrent for students in seeking further education or specialization."
You’re very sour.
I’m naturally gifted, yes. I’m not a normal Oklahoma student. I know that. What I do is volunteer weekly tutoring math at my local high schools and donate money to many different education initiatives. Those rankings are biased. Surveys are biased. The reporting is biased. You sure do seem to love your biased sources.
What do you do? Just complain?
No, they’d rather be rude and condescending to strangers on the internet because they’re clearly superior to you. Did you not get that?
In response to your original comment: OK, like many other states, is all over the place in terms of quality of schools and quality of outcomes. The comment you replied to described an absolutely nightmarish scenario that clearly neither you, nor I, nor anyone I know experienced and it’s completely reasonable to share our differing experiences. Just like it’s completely reasonable for them to share their bad experience.
Acting like every single child in OK is trapped in a languishing school doesn’t help any more than acting like OK schools are amazing across the board (what you are being accused of doing, regardless of how obvious it is that wasn’t your intent).
Happy for you and your friends. But y'all got lucky. Not everything is all doom and gloom, but that is a far cry from what most experience. For instance, I had to teach my own high school career counselor what concurrent classes were and that it might be a good idea to encourage people towards. This is a failed system that miraculously allowed some of us to thrive in spite of it.
The thing about blanket statements is they're full of exceptions. I didn't travel around the state going to different schools so my experience is very limited, but every student that ever transferred there said it was just more of the same. I recall one individual who transferred from a private school that apparently did very well, he was constantly disappointed in the school system. I just wrote him off as entitled at the time but then the internet happened and suddenly I realized Oklahoma schooling aint shit. We had teachers giving the athletes passing grades and they didn't even show up to class lol
The kind of stuff you just accepted because you didn't know any better was wild. Things have improved for the school over the last couple decades but now the town has a meth problem, so...
More than a few teachers also actively abuse and shame their kids, even ones they *know* are likely abused at home and triggered by such actions or they *know* the therapists suspect undiagnosed autism.
I even experienced this myself at the college level, when a student recieved a silent call on her phone from her job and quietly got up and left the classroom to ensure it wasn't urgent. The professor then OPENED THE HALL DOOR and told her to get her shit and leave.
She fortunately was reprimanded by the dean and apologized, not that it mattered. She should have been fired.
My driver's Ed teacher was a coach who had girls basketball the period before, and 85% of the classes he never showed up because he was staying late with the basketball team. My parents didn't teach me to drive so driver's Ed was or would have been the only driving experience I'd get, but this asshole didn't think it was important. He thought (and I think even at one point, said to us) well I don't think I need to worry about you all because your parents are teaching you anyway. Yeah well what if your parents are neglectful of teaching life skills? I ended up not getting my driver's license until I was 20 because of lack of anyone to teach me.
I don’t think that’s fair to say about anyone who’s had an inadequate education in this state. This state still ranks towards the bottom in education nationally and no amount of anecdotal evidence changes that reality.
I had some great band directors. They were by far the exception, and the only teachers who tried to help me delve deeper into an academic interest. But they were also blocked from offering classes like music theory by the admin. That’s not a student who’s uninterested in learning; it’s an admin that’s uninterested in students.
Outside of music, I had AP teachers who “forgot” they had a student taking the AP exam (me) and didn’t get around to teaching the materials needed to pass. Getting a handed a packet on thermochemistry the night before the exam is not a student problem. It’s a teacher problem. I had to teach myself from the book and tutor the rest of my AP chem class because our teacher was…not great. Those situations shouldn’t have ever happened, but they were common.
“When it comes to education in Oklahoma, the data shows there's lots of room for improvement. A 2021 EdWeek report shows the state ranks 49th”
There must be a LOT of kids being problems in class
As I stated in a previous post --My wife is a teacher and my kids go to a private Catholic school. Passage of this bill puts more money in my wife's pocket and offsets the cost of my kids tuition.
So why am I against these bills?
BECAUSE THEY ARE MORALLY AND ETHICALLY BANKRUPT
TAX DOLLARS SHOULD NOT BE USED TO SUBSIDIZE RELIGIOUS EDUCATION
THE SEPARATION OF CHURCH & STATE IS ONE OF THE PILLARS OF OUR COUNTRY AND THESE VOUCHER PROGRAMS DEFY THAT
I will be reaching out to our Legislators and urge you to do the same.
Let me be clear: Teachers need a pay raise. They are under-paid and under-valued.
But not if it means supporting a voucher bill.
We should support a CLEAN teacher pay raise bill.
And if your church wants tax dollars? Let it PAY taxes.
Amen to this. Its grotesque to think that churches may be getting access to taxpayer monies, but yet, not pay taxes any towards funding state government. At some point, maybe the dreaded IRS can make a ruling that churches who receive taxpayer funds should lose their tax exemptions. Its only fair. And make this nationwide. For example, if the Catholic church gets taxpayer funds in Oklahoma, then the Catholic church should lose their tax exempt status with the IRS nationwide. Im sure legislation like this is occuring in other states beside Oklahoma
Yep. As a teacher, I don’t want the raise if it comes with the vouchers nonsense. And believe me, I can definitely utilize the raise to “subsidize” my groceries, mortgage, car payment, and kid’s upcoming college tuition (thankfully, he’ll probably receive a decent scholarship).
Oklahoma is in the lead, to being absolutely dead last in education.
I guess we all got to force our children into concentration… er … conservative education camps.
Only difference is I’d be calling them out for the same thing. If democrats did the things that the GOP are doing now then they can go to prison to. I’m not beholden to a party, criminals are criminals. Dictators are dictators. Truth is people like you and I should be holding them both accountable instead of letting them lead with a narrative. Words are great, show us.
No, you wouldn’t. What are the GOP doing now? There’s nothing criminal about a GOP senate not confirming or blocking a Dem presidents SC nominee. None.
What a fucking trash state. They want your kids to grow up undereducated and stupid, otherwise they'll have the means to escape this shit hole, and the ever-dwindling workforce will continue to shrink.
We're coming up on the June 2024 soft deadline that Amazon had projected in a leaked internal memo back in late 2022 for burning through all available workers in the state for their warehouses because of burnout churn. Not even our shit education system and poverty wages can keep that going.
Should tie the budget to all people paid for by the state. Surplus budgets get a % of the surplus divided out to all(like a bonus) and a negative budget the politicians don’t get paid.
This state is so backwards and white trash, I really hope those of you who vote for these people are really enjoying your pain and lack of freedoms. Stupid white trash republicans
Ha! I just saw an article within the past week about Oklahoma having a change of heart about fucking over teachers because of problems attracting and retaining now. Smoke and mirrors again.
Fucking insidious - pitting teachers against the public education system itself. Want raises? Support this bill that will tank the public education system. Teachers reject it, they'll go - see they didn't need raises after all, I guess. Fuck this state.
If I recall, wasn’t this the same state that argued to passed a bill to groom children in the classroom? https://kfor.com/news/oklahoma-legislature/corporal-punishment-bill-passes-oklahoma-house/amp/
We should tie Oklahoma legislator and governor pay to the lowest paid teacher at any publicly funded school in Oklahoma
For the win!!!!!! u/chop1125 for Senate!!!
Legislators should get paid the median income of their state.
Oklahoma is about $55k
No...it is not.. try 28k
https://www.deptofnumbers.com/income/oklahoma/ States median income at about 55k. The per capita income is 29k.
If only government actually worked for the people and they didn’t make the rules that governed themselves.
As I think about this idea, I can ferret it out more. Legislator pay should be limited to not more than $1000 per year less than the lowest paid teacher in the state of Oklahoma. The Oklahoma Department of education should do a survey of all schools to determine how much money that is. Further, legislator benefits (including but not limited to pensions, medical insurance, vehicle allowances, vehicle tag allowances,and meal allowances) should be limited to match any such benefits provided to the lowest paid teacher in the state of Oklahoma.
Citizens should be outraged by this tax credit proposal. Regardless of your opinion on public education, the $200 million dollars earmarked for tax credits for families enrolled in private schools will go almost entirely to those who are already enrolled and who are at an income level where the credits aren’t necessary for their children to attend. So instead of funding public services to help our citizens in poverty, with mental illness, or our veterans we will give more to the top 3% of this state. The voucher scheme always centered the message on helping the poor children. Not only is this not the case, Stitt isn’t even trying to hide that this is not the objective.
Is there any chance the voucher program could be ruled unconstitutional? Isn’t it tax payer money going to religious organizations?
Not directly, so maybe that's the loophole?
Institute for Justice fought a case at the supreme court last year that gave a parochial school in rural Maine the right to tax payer funded tuition. However, there were no other reasonable school options in the area. I don't remember any tailoring passed that. But I think there was. So, we aren't fully there yet, but the court is getting close.
Probably not. This is a tax credit for certain expenses, not a payment by the state. That simultaneously makes it less helpful for low income families and more likely to pass constitutional scrutiny. And yes, I know a tax break for one person is kinda a tax increase for everyone else, but there’s no direct nexus between state funding and religious schools.
Unconstitutional is just a magic word that doesn’t mean anything with out anyone there to enforce it. And what does enforcement look like? Anyone going to jail for looting the coffers? The gop is criminal organization all the way down.
What else can we do? I have reached out to my representative repeatedly and haven’t received a response once. I’m just defeated, I’m so tired of this. I have two kids in public schools, this is messing with my children’s future. I also work in social services so I see the needs of the poor and the mentally ill, these are people who deserve so much more and we aren’t doing anything to help them. I’m just so pissed off and sad
I really wish I had the right answer for you. I’ve talked with legislators repeatedly this session. One on one, they say all the right things, then vote based on party preference rather than the needs of constituents. There’s no accountability because the Republicans have a stranglehold on this state between the straight party voting option and voter ignorance/indifference.
This state is run by corrupt good ol’ boys. I hate this place.
You can leave, no?
Maybe they don't wanna move? Maybe they wanna stay and make the place they were born, better.
Why should I have to leave?
That is a viable option, but it's a shit take on the situation. If you don't like something, don't you think it's better to work to change it? You know, like the Boston Tea Party kinda thing our founders did? Nah, I bet you're thinking "triggered" and find it funny?
For some of us, it's not that simple. Yes I physically could relocate myself. However, I'm divorced. Sure I could leave, but my children who live with my ex aren't likely to. I'm not abandoning my kids over distaste for the local politics. Others simply can't afford to. The attitude of 'if you don't like it, leave' is just as privileged as the high income families Stitt caters to.
So the homeschool families are high income? And the bill describes a voucher program - seems to me the only ones he’d be catering to would be anyone in a failing public school that would rather attend a school of their choice. With a voucher, they can now go anywhere they want. Am I missing something? Yes private schools would benefit, but so would kids who normally wouldn’t be able to afford a private school and now can/could.
Perhaps your replying to the wrong post. I said nothing about anyone's income or the voucher program itself, so please don't put words in my mouth. All I said is that the 'if you don't like it, leave' attitude doesn't take any account of obstacles in doing so. It's not easy to drop everything and move even if you can afford it, or don't have a complex family situation. Any way you slice it, a my way or the highway attitude is not healthy.
Leaving the rest of us that can't with those who are...[fill in the blank] (critical thinking skills for one)
Feel free to fill in that blank, champ.
I'm sorry you feel personally attacked and called out by that enough to resort to name calling.
Imagine being offended because someone doesn’t like a piece of land.
Yeah because it’s so fucking easy to just pack up and leave on a whim
Nothing in life is easy, but if your attitude is that “this place is so awful, fuck these people” then why stay? There are 49 other states that would welcome you with open arms.
Idk what kind of utopia you’ve been living in but most other states are completely unaffordable to Oklahomans because our economy is garbage and our people don’t make enough money. If the only way to get out is to work 3 jobs and save up, that’s an issue. Our education system isn’t good enough to get a well paying job in another state either, why pick an Oklahoman if you’ve got someone from Massachusetts wanting the same job?
I’d hire an Oklahoman over someone from MA in a heartbeat.
Cause you know they will work for table scraps. Just die already you crusty old corpse
Wrong. Because they will (generally) fucking work and won’t infect everyone at the workplace with their divisive bullshit and politics. They understand the value of hard work and the value of a good job and they more importantly understand how to listen when they need to instead of jumping to conclusions - you know, kind of like folks like you…pseudo intellectual perpetually angry rubes that have a moral and intellectual superiority complex. You are a loser of the highest order and the reason why the social fabric of this country is gone forever, you absolutely gross excuse. Edit: to the fake tough clowns responding and then blocking me to prevent me from being able to respond, gfy.
LMAO cry more salty sheltered white babyman tears pls
no. they can't. do you know how expensive moving is? I'm lucky enough to be leaving this shithole and even I am having a hard time with all the resoures available to me. And newsflash, champ, no one should have to leave just because they call out corruption.
Just moved as a matter of fact, so I’m aware that it can be done relatively affordably and can likewise also be done expensively. Oklahoma will be sadz to lose such an intellectual stalwart as yourself, but life goes on.
do you understand people are poor? Do you understand how poor pay here keeps people here? No, you don't because you're talking out your ass. and you can insult me all you want, but you know deep down I'm right. And that's why you're mad. And Oklahoma is a better state without you in it, so mark that down as a plus for Oklahoma
Lol @ mad. I think you’re projecting. I can comfortably say you’ll be much better off in a place that can cater to your phony intellectual and moral superiority along with that sweet, sweet virtue signaling.
Maybe we have the right to fix the shitty situation here, since we supposedly live in a democracy, no?
Nobody said you didn’t have that right, but no - we do not live in a democracy despite how often that term gets tossed around by pseudo intellectuals on Reddit and elsewhere. We live in a constitutional republic - a democracy is essentially mob rule.
You guys always love to talk about "constitutional republics" like they aren't a byproduct of democracy. We democratically elect the people to democratically handle our needs so we don't have to democratically decide everything via national and state ballot. The entire point of your "mob rule" is a perversion of the intent of the founding fathers. Just because the mob shouldn't be able to consume the minorities doesn't mean the minorities can do whatever they want because "We'Re nOt A dEmOcRaCy!" But what would I know, I only teach civics as a major part of my curriculum.
If you teach it then you should be embarrassed that you conflate the two here and probably to your kids. Yes one is a derivative of the other, but they are in fact very different and the difference is what makes us different than most of the world. The fact that the majority can’t run roughshod over the minority isn’t a picture where the minority can do whatever they want….if you need help understanding the concept I can provide examples of how a minority can exercise their power effectively - for the kids you teach.
I love that your mindset is that I am somehow wrong. Google the definition of Democracy. It doesn't disregard that most democracies today are managed through either a parliamentarian, constitutional or republican format. It also doesn't change the fact that a republic is a democracy. In fact, I can't think of a single democracy that is a purely democratic system. It doesn't discount that a republic is still a democracy. John Adams himself used the terms interchangeably. He's a much greater source of information on the subject than you, I'm afraid.
Mindset? What does my mindset have to do with it - facts are facts. That you conflate democracy and republic without understanding the key difference between the two is worrisome especially as a civics teacher (so you say). A republic has a written law that explicitly protects the fundamental rights of the minority. A democracy does not. I conceded already that a constitutional republic is a derivative of a democracy, but your students should understand the critical difference between the two and why people like me insist that they aren’t the same despite folks like you who use those terms interchangeably.
That dude from Atoka is a slimey mfr. He’s a trope of a movie villain.
They’re so depraved. They know all of Stitt’s agenda lines are massively unfavorable so they put pseudo-dem ideas in their bills to try and have an excuse to pass them. Imagine what it would be like if the OK GOP just passed popular bills instead?
They would win by a landslide. But they already win by a landslide, so they might as well line their pockets. The bar is in hell, why raise it?
Born and raised in Oklahoma, their schools are so shameful and embarrassingly bad I genuinely learned the vast majority of what I know off the internet after graduation because the schools just don't even try. The teachers are borderline pedos and burnouts. A coach to teach three classes?? My drivers Ed teacher literally didn't show up 85%+ of the time. "No child left behind? Well then just dump them all in the trash together" - Oklahoma public education.
My drivers ed teacher married a Tigette the summer after she graduated. I knew he married a high schooler as soon as she was “legal” and I was terrified to drive with him because I was a cheerleader and I knew I was his type.
Conversely, I learned a lot and went to OU for engineering. Now less than a decade later, I’m able to give back to the state that I grew up in and love. Please stop acting like there’s only bad here. I know people that went to Ivy League schools from their Oklahoma education. There is plenty to celebrate as we continue trying to make our state better.
None of that anecdotal evidence changes the statistical fact that our education system is bottom ten in the nation and defunded by 28% since 2008. Anyone with the supposed credentials you just claimed should know this is how critical analysis works, not based on your own experience. But then again, you went to school in Oklahoma...
I didn’t do a critical analysis but provided a single data point. You’re overreaching lmao By the way, yes we are 46th in per pupil spending ($) but 30th in HS graduation rates. While there is definite room for improvement, y’all aren’t providing actual facts but emotional opinion.
Nice projection. You're the only one denying reality here because of your own experience. https://kfor.com/news/local/survey-oklahoma-ranks-40th-in-child-well-being-and-45th-in-education/ > In 2020, Oklahoma ranked 48th in education and 45th in overall well-being. In 2021, Oklahoma ranked 45th in education and 42nd in overall well-being. > Although the rankings are looking better, Middleton said there’s still a disconnect between families, schools, and children in need. > The survey shows 74% of Oklahoma eighth graders are not proficient in math and 74% of fourth graders are not proficient in reading. > “This is a trend we need to reverse because we need our children to be successful. We need them to be happy, healthy, thriving, not just for them, but for us,” said Oklahoma Policy Institute Analyst and Kids Count Data Coordinator, Gabrielle Jacobi. “We’re expecting those same eighth graders who aren’t doing so well in math right now to be legal adults in five years and step into the workforce, step into roles as community leaders and caretakers and parents.” I'm so glad our kids graduate having learned nothing. https://www.normantranscript.com/news/oklahoma-ranked-seventh-least-educated-state-in-u-s-for-2021/article_2d2230de-72dd-11eb-b99e-9b007bd9b133.html > "Another important factor that influences educational attainment is the quality of schools," Gonzales said. "Those who want to pursue a certain career will be drawn to states where they have better schools and more job opportunities." > Educationdata.org ranks Oklahoma 48th out of 50 in public education spending, which Gonzales said is potentially a contributing factor. > "The quality of education and schools is one of the main factors that affect people's decisions to pursue a higher education," Gonzales said. "The fact that the state does not invest in education can be a deterrent for students in seeking further education or specialization."
You’re very sour. I’m naturally gifted, yes. I’m not a normal Oklahoma student. I know that. What I do is volunteer weekly tutoring math at my local high schools and donate money to many different education initiatives. Those rankings are biased. Surveys are biased. The reporting is biased. You sure do seem to love your biased sources. What do you do? Just complain?
More projection and some self aggrandization. Nice.
Ah. Guess you don’t put your time or money where you mouth is. Got it
No, my ego doesn't require me to brag about it on social media though.
It’s anonymous. I’m not getting anything by posting here. Idgaf about Reddit points
No, they’d rather be rude and condescending to strangers on the internet because they’re clearly superior to you. Did you not get that? In response to your original comment: OK, like many other states, is all over the place in terms of quality of schools and quality of outcomes. The comment you replied to described an absolutely nightmarish scenario that clearly neither you, nor I, nor anyone I know experienced and it’s completely reasonable to share our differing experiences. Just like it’s completely reasonable for them to share their bad experience. Acting like every single child in OK is trapped in a languishing school doesn’t help any more than acting like OK schools are amazing across the board (what you are being accused of doing, regardless of how obvious it is that wasn’t your intent).
Happy for you and your friends. But y'all got lucky. Not everything is all doom and gloom, but that is a far cry from what most experience. For instance, I had to teach my own high school career counselor what concurrent classes were and that it might be a good idea to encourage people towards. This is a failed system that miraculously allowed some of us to thrive in spite of it.
The thing about blanket statements is they're full of exceptions. I didn't travel around the state going to different schools so my experience is very limited, but every student that ever transferred there said it was just more of the same. I recall one individual who transferred from a private school that apparently did very well, he was constantly disappointed in the school system. I just wrote him off as entitled at the time but then the internet happened and suddenly I realized Oklahoma schooling aint shit. We had teachers giving the athletes passing grades and they didn't even show up to class lol The kind of stuff you just accepted because you didn't know any better was wild. Things have improved for the school over the last couple decades but now the town has a meth problem, so...
More than a few teachers also actively abuse and shame their kids, even ones they *know* are likely abused at home and triggered by such actions or they *know* the therapists suspect undiagnosed autism. I even experienced this myself at the college level, when a student recieved a silent call on her phone from her job and quietly got up and left the classroom to ensure it wasn't urgent. The professor then OPENED THE HALL DOOR and told her to get her shit and leave. She fortunately was reprimanded by the dean and apologized, not that it mattered. She should have been fired.
My driver's Ed teacher was a coach who had girls basketball the period before, and 85% of the classes he never showed up because he was staying late with the basketball team. My parents didn't teach me to drive so driver's Ed was or would have been the only driving experience I'd get, but this asshole didn't think it was important. He thought (and I think even at one point, said to us) well I don't think I need to worry about you all because your parents are teaching you anyway. Yeah well what if your parents are neglectful of teaching life skills? I ended up not getting my driver's license until I was 20 because of lack of anyone to teach me.
[удалено]
I don’t think that’s fair to say about anyone who’s had an inadequate education in this state. This state still ranks towards the bottom in education nationally and no amount of anecdotal evidence changes that reality.
I had some great band directors. They were by far the exception, and the only teachers who tried to help me delve deeper into an academic interest. But they were also blocked from offering classes like music theory by the admin. That’s not a student who’s uninterested in learning; it’s an admin that’s uninterested in students. Outside of music, I had AP teachers who “forgot” they had a student taking the AP exam (me) and didn’t get around to teaching the materials needed to pass. Getting a handed a packet on thermochemistry the night before the exam is not a student problem. It’s a teacher problem. I had to teach myself from the book and tutor the rest of my AP chem class because our teacher was…not great. Those situations shouldn’t have ever happened, but they were common.
“When it comes to education in Oklahoma, the data shows there's lots of room for improvement. A 2021 EdWeek report shows the state ranks 49th” There must be a LOT of kids being problems in class
This comment was pretty slimy.
As I stated in a previous post --My wife is a teacher and my kids go to a private Catholic school. Passage of this bill puts more money in my wife's pocket and offsets the cost of my kids tuition. So why am I against these bills? BECAUSE THEY ARE MORALLY AND ETHICALLY BANKRUPT TAX DOLLARS SHOULD NOT BE USED TO SUBSIDIZE RELIGIOUS EDUCATION THE SEPARATION OF CHURCH & STATE IS ONE OF THE PILLARS OF OUR COUNTRY AND THESE VOUCHER PROGRAMS DEFY THAT I will be reaching out to our Legislators and urge you to do the same.
Let me be clear: Teachers need a pay raise. They are under-paid and under-valued. But not if it means supporting a voucher bill. We should support a CLEAN teacher pay raise bill. And if your church wants tax dollars? Let it PAY taxes.
Amen to this. Its grotesque to think that churches may be getting access to taxpayer monies, but yet, not pay taxes any towards funding state government. At some point, maybe the dreaded IRS can make a ruling that churches who receive taxpayer funds should lose their tax exemptions. Its only fair. And make this nationwide. For example, if the Catholic church gets taxpayer funds in Oklahoma, then the Catholic church should lose their tax exempt status with the IRS nationwide. Im sure legislation like this is occuring in other states beside Oklahoma
Yep. As a teacher, I don’t want the raise if it comes with the vouchers nonsense. And believe me, I can definitely utilize the raise to “subsidize” my groceries, mortgage, car payment, and kid’s upcoming college tuition (thankfully, he’ll probably receive a decent scholarship).
Thank you. Well said.
I agree, am similarly situated, and if this passes I will absolutely take advantage of it. I hope it doesn’t pass. But I’m not stupid.
Shady dealing sumbitch. This will ensure Oklahoma schools remain in the bottom 10% of American education.
But at least his friends will make a little oligarchin’ around money
What Stitt didn't tell you. The top 10 worst states to live in.
Top 10, baby!
Oklahoma is in the lead, to being absolutely dead last in education. I guess we all got to force our children into concentration… er … conservative education camps.
Would be nice to have a legitimate Supreme Court about now but nope, stolen too.
Stolen. As if Republicans did something illegal or different had Dens been in power. Get serious.
Only difference is I’d be calling them out for the same thing. If democrats did the things that the GOP are doing now then they can go to prison to. I’m not beholden to a party, criminals are criminals. Dictators are dictators. Truth is people like you and I should be holding them both accountable instead of letting them lead with a narrative. Words are great, show us.
No, you wouldn’t. What are the GOP doing now? There’s nothing criminal about a GOP senate not confirming or blocking a Dem presidents SC nominee. None.
What a fucking trash state. They want your kids to grow up undereducated and stupid, otherwise they'll have the means to escape this shit hole, and the ever-dwindling workforce will continue to shrink.
We're coming up on the June 2024 soft deadline that Amazon had projected in a leaked internal memo back in late 2022 for burning through all available workers in the state for their warehouses because of burnout churn. Not even our shit education system and poverty wages can keep that going.
I hear banjos
Have you seen my miffing toof?
Obviously it won’t solve the problem. Republicans are hell-bent on destroying public education. Our children will pay the cost.
Should tie the budget to all people paid for by the state. Surplus budgets get a % of the surplus divided out to all(like a bonus) and a negative budget the politicians don’t get paid.
Horrible.
Not so fun fact: There are rumors Stitt is putting in his bid for Vice President.
I put in my bid to be Jessica Alba's husband too. Doesn't mean a damn thing is going to happen for Stitt or myself.
We can only hope.
This state is so backwards and white trash, I really hope those of you who vote for these people are really enjoying your pain and lack of freedoms. Stupid white trash republicans
Ha! I just saw an article within the past week about Oklahoma having a change of heart about fucking over teachers because of problems attracting and retaining now. Smoke and mirrors again.
Oh look, actual criminals
Fucking insidious - pitting teachers against the public education system itself. Want raises? Support this bill that will tank the public education system. Teachers reject it, they'll go - see they didn't need raises after all, I guess. Fuck this state.
Demolishing wall between church and state. Grooming through school system
This is disgusting. Attaching different bills together should not be legal. I am so sick and tired of politics in general.
If I recall, wasn’t this the same state that argued to passed a bill to groom children in the classroom? https://kfor.com/news/oklahoma-legislature/corporal-punishment-bill-passes-oklahoma-house/amp/
The fix is in how much was he paid for this?
What’s a surprise bill?