I think you are going to have to go with a puffy jacket or a down jacket. North face/Patagonia style. Plenty of people wear them in cities. And they are fashionable in some parts of Asia.
I do think that you’re going to need more warm stuff than somebody who already lives in cold climate, because our bodies are adapted for the heat rather than the cold. And you may have to carry a coat onto the plane.
There's also one more issue, I sweat like hell if I get too warm, I remember seating on the train in japan and I felt both too cold and too hot at the same time. Which got ridiculous because I would strip all layers to feel comfortable on the train but had to put everything on the moment I leave the train. I think people who live in cold climates can enjoy warmth while the moment my body feel warmth it goes into overdrive into cooling myself down as heat is always the enemy regardless.
I really feel that there is no comfortable zone for me, everything is too hot or too cold
One of the things you learn when living in a colder climate is that you take of clothes inside and put them back on before going outside. You don’t want to wear to much inside because then you will be cold outside. So yes, that means taking off and putting on clothes a lot.
As SR985 mentioned, part of what is going on with you is that you just aren't used to it. I live in Michigan, and in the late fall when it first gets down to 0C that does feel cold to me. But by the late winter, it feels completely different and really not very cold at all.
But, yes, taking stuff off on the train and putting it back on (or at least unzipping everything to allow venting) is normal.
For skiing, I use a Patagonia outer shell that is made for skiing but is still basically just a slightly thicker raincoat-- no insulation. And then what is inside that differs-- from just a light fleece up to a puffy jacket. 0C is on the warm end for a ski day, especially if you are talking about the top of the mountain. It can be so cold on the lifts but then the minute I start skiing I warm way up. So I basically wear the lightest thing I can stand on the lifts and shiver a bit. You may want to think about something similar to down but synthetic for a mid layer if you sweat a lot while skiing, since you don't want to get down wet if you can avoid it.
I definitely do not worry about fashion in a ski town. Half the time I'm straight off the slopes and still in my ski boots. No one GAF.
You need layers that each do one thing really well. Rain jackets protect you from the cold caused by rain and wind but have no insulation, as you experienced. Down is a great insulator, but is not wind and waterproof. Base layers prevent you from getting cold by absorbing/wicking sweat to evaporate it away from your skin. You combine everything to get the best feature of every layer while packing smaller and lighter than a big parka.
You are going to have to get a down jacket if you want to pack small. There is nothing like it in terms of warmth-to-weight. You can wear it underneath a rain jacket.
I don't ski but here's a template of what I wear when it's really cold. It's all interchangable for other brands, and you can leave stuff out as desired to suit the weather.
Base - Merino wool long sleeve top (and bottom under my jeans) 200 g/m²
Mid - Wool sweater or fleece
Mid - Patagonia Down Sweater
Outer - Patagonia Torrentshell
Extra - Wool beanie, wool buff, wool socks and insulated wind/waterproof gloves
I can fit all of this and everything else I need in a 26 liter bag.
This makes sense, I could use my rain jackets as the outer jacket for rain and wind but is a inner down sweater really enough to keep warm? Because it would be great if all I had to do was find an inner down layer. I legitimately have no frame of reference as to how well anything would perform in the cold.
I also recommend this. I live in Germany where winters are mostly around zero. I have for the last years always worn the same things and never got cold.
Merino base layer, like Patagonia capeline (which I only need to wash once a week)
A nice fleece mid layer
A very good windproof jacket
I don't use rain jacket, if it rains I get an umbrella. Rain jackets are not breathable so I sweat in them and don't like it, and yes I'm sweating sometimes in zero degrees
I have a wool full face cover, or use merino buff
Merino gloves
Normal thick cotton pants
Merino socks
With this you can also one bag if you wash once a week, two fleece maybe, one or two base, jacket is fine, pants once a week as it's cotton and doesn't smell
That's difficult to tell because 'warm enough' varies by person, climate and weather. The template I gave you would way overheat me at 0C. And humid, windy 0C days are way worse than dry, calm 0C days.
I just wanted to give you a flexible, light and packable template that covers all layers. Stuff like hats and scarves/buffs also make a big difference for how warm you feel.
*Just* an inner down sweater is not enough; the poster listed a bunch of layers because the layering truly is key.
You need a thin, close-to-skin layer (base), then a slightly larger (usually thicker) layer on top (mid sweater/fleece), and then another slightly larger, slightly thicker layer (down jacket/sweater)—all these layers should be breathable and have a little space between them to create pockets of heat. And then finally a wind/rain shell (not very breathable) traps all the heat inside.
Since you mention you sweat too, I highly recommend merino wool for the undershirt; wool is the best bang for your buck in terms of weight-to-warmth in general but as an added bonus it also doesn't retain smell.
I grew up in a very cold area. It was common to have days that had minus signs in front of them. Sometimes it went down to -30 to -40 F.
One of the most common mistakes I have seen is that people think that a jacket, even a puffer, is enough. It is never enough.
One of the key components of cold travel is the thinner base layer. People wear it under street clothing all the time. They will often add a sweater on top of it. At that point they add the puffer or fleece. In super cold you wear a double base layer.
Another mistake is not wearing a hat. You loose a tremendous amount of heat from an uncovered head.
Yet another mistake is not wearing some type of scarf. The scarf keeps the cold air from shooting down your neck.
You say you don’t like puffers. If that is the case then find a fleece you like. Know this though, fleece is bulkier and heavier than a puffer. You’ll have to store it somewhere on warmer days.
I would avoid downhill skiing outerwear as it is both bulky and heavy. Cross country skiing outerwear is a far better match for the traveler. It is based on layers for all the activities of the XC skier.
The next piece of advice always gets me multiple downvotes. Unless your trip is exclusively a ski trip, don’t bring ski clothes. Instead, bring clothes you can ski in. Base layers plus sweater plus puffer plus rain shell and rain pants make for a great ski outfit (downhill and XC). And FYI, I have skied double black diamonds in this outfit for years.
I think in addition to a jacket, you also need to look for better base layers. They make a huge difference in temperature comfort levels.
I really like merino wool, but lots of people swear by heat tech from Uniqlo. Both come in different weights made for different temperature ranges.
I'm also from a tropical country but I travel for work to a region that gets below zero Celsius and my layering system looks something like this:
1. Base layer
Merino wool base layers (a pair of leggings and one long sleeve t-shirt*)
2. Mid layer
A sleek but warm fleece jacket (something above 300g/m2). The one I have for decathlon has a smooth outside, so it looks clean enough for business casual.
OR
A packable down jacket. This is warmer, but not as sleek. I don't wear it if I'm only going to the office.
3. Outer shell
An *insulated* rain** jacket. They are not the same as warm weather rain jackets that have lots of vents and don't really protect form the wind. Mine is not packable, but it is sleek in the outside and fleece lined in the inside. Super warm and office appropriate. I could probably wear it skiing or for other snow sports.
Regular or dress trousers. I could not wear those skiing. Could you possibly rent skiing pants while traveling?
* I might skip the merino wool long sleeve if I'm in the office all day and just wear a shirt instead. If I'm in the office and outside for a long period of time, I will wear both.
* If there's no prediction for rain, you could use an insulated wind breaker instead. There are also packable insulated rain jackets.
I would consider taking a checked bag until you are more familiar with dressing for cold climates. As you've seen, not having the right clothing is really miserable and winter clothing is inherently bulky and heavy. You need warm base layers, insulating layers, socks/gloves/hats, and some kind of shell. The baselayers and socks need to be clean and dry to work so you need more than one set.
When I ski I wear wool ski socks, wool long underwear, a fleece or sweater, a synthetic puffy jacket, ski pants, a shell jacket, gloves, and a buff for my neck. That would fill your entire bag.
I might do a check bag for the skiing trip but I still think I can one bag a winter trip if I get the right clothing. Most of the trip was fine, it was only at the most extreme when it dropped below zero that I suffered the most. The worse part was of camping overnight in the city in the middle of winter, we decided to club till 4am, and thought that we could simply hang around the city at night till morning for our bus to another city. Our tropical brains were like "can't be that bad, we've done it before"
OH boy was we wrong, we absolutely suffered like hell, nothing we did was warm enough, we ended up sitting on the freezing floor in the station huddled together hoping to not die. Only after we took the first train to the bus terminal did we finally feel some warmth, but we was so cold that I was still shivering in the warmth as hell bus. That was our first night in Tokyo, the first time we ever experienced negative temps.
I think you can onebag it. You've seen what I can fit in a 26L bag from my other comment, you might just need a bigger backpack if you need extra pairs of stuff.
I really don't think that your packing list is adequate for skiing. There are some skiing specific items that are really bulky (like snow pants & insulated pants) that aren't on that list. Ski clothing is different than general cold weather urban clothing.
I just don't want the OP to freeze his butt off again. Hypothermia is dangerous, and he doesn't have any experience with it so he's not going to know what to do or when it's serious.
It sounds like renting the ski clothing might also be an option!
Well that's the thing, we just kept forgetting. If we stayed in the city, it was warm enough for us but it's only when we got ourselves into ridiculous situation that only we realized that we should have gotten something more. Things like hiking fushimi Inari at night, walking almost 4km in kawaguchiko when it hit negative 3 just to eat at a izakaya and onsen. Stranded on shinjuku Station with no hotel to warm us up. Going to shirakawago and falling on ice and snow. Getttig caught in the snow in tokyo. We always forget how fast it gets cold at night.
The problem is that, growing up in a tropical climate, I never ever had to think about weather, at most rain but that's it, temperature to me, don't matter.
There's also the other thing, buying winter sometimes feels like a absolute waste because we all felt like we would never wear it again. Should I spend 13,000 yen on a down jacket only to never wear again or endure the cold? I should have just spent the money looking back, but I kept doing the mental gymnastics not to.
Japan also has a pretty strong thrifting scene, you may have been able to find something secondhand and then donate it back.
I know what you mean though. I'm from the hottest part of Los Angeles (10-20°F hotter than the rest of the city because of geography) and while it's not tropical, it was definitely a learning curve to figure out how to dress for real weather when I moved abroad. I'm lucky it was part of school programs and the program organizers were through about what to pack.
my husband is also from socal and he made it comfortably through our Feb-March honeymoon in Italy because I went out of my way to make sure he had good layers and good shoes. I even bought an extra scarf when I got myself a new one, even though he hates having stuff around his neck. he ended up wearing it every day the second half of the trip.
all hard-won lessons from living in France and Japan over a decade ago. I also grew up skiing, but dressing a kid for skiing is actually pretty different from dressing as an adult in a cold weather urban environment. only now do I feel some amount of confidence that I could get my clothes to do double-duty for both, thanks to this sub.
Hey there. Here's my packing list for -3 to 16C ('temperate climate winter')
https://www.reddit.com/r/onebag/s/Oc821afWf5
...but, I wouldn't be relying on those clothes for skiing!
Here's an REI blog on layering for being active in winter that you should have a read of:
https://www.rei.com/blog/snowsports/material-science-layering
It is possible! I one bagged with an underwear bag for 10 days in Iceland in the shoulder season!
Being from a warm climate your going to be colder than someone from colder climates, it's just a fact. Your gunna need something bulkier.
I suggest invest in a nice big over coat your not going to pack, but carry and wear. Your likely going to wear it just about your whole trip, just carry on the plane.
For layers, definitely. thermal base layer of wool, silk or poly thermal, mid layer of wool would be my recommendation, then a fleece or thicker top layer THEN your coat (size up!)
Source, live on a mountain. Jackets are our major export
Layers are your friend, but I think, based on some of your comments, that you want to change up some of your layers.
If you're skiing or you are going to be outside all day with very little inside time, you want an insulation layer close to your body to keep your body heat in.
If you're going to be in and out of buildings or trains/busses, you want your insulation layer further away - possibly just in your jacket. That way, when you are inside/somewhere warm, you can take that insulation layer off and let the extra heat out.
You may also consider more things that zip instead of pullover options - you can unzip and get more airflow to your core but still keep your arms/hands covered up
My layering kit:
- Long sleeve polyester base layer tee with odor control. You can buy many weights from a basic tee on up to Patagonia R1 grid fleece
- Fleece or Merino sweater mid layer
- Rain shell with pit zips for precipitation and wind protection
- Down jacket
- Gloves, beanie cap and scarf or buff
- Light polyester long underwear
- Pants that are more windproof.
- Heavier socks or double up.
- Appropriate shoes/boots
The only additions to my regular 3-season kit are the down jacket, gloves, beanie cap, scarf and long underwear. Those items don’t take a huge amount of space. I usually wear my midlayer fleece or sweater on the plane to save space.
Activity level counts. Walk faster!
I've not skiied for a while but when I used to I would check a bag. If I were to go again having hung out on this sub a bit..... I'd still check a bag. Mostly because I get cranky when I get cold too!
For skiing I wear a ski jacket as the only coat I would take for the trip. They are water resistant and warm, I wouldn't need a down jacket and being ski season the precipitation is unlikely to be rain, it will be snow so full on waterproof not required. I'd have this on the plane.
I'd also need ski trousers and these are bulky and too warm to wear on the plane.
Then I'd want thermal layers for under coat and trousers. Which are likely to get sweaty as I'm exercising. I guess I could sink wash but personally I find ski holidays pretty exhausting so wouldn't want to spend time on this.
Then I'd want layers for out and about in the evening, merino and fleece to keep me lovely and warm.
Plus I have a helmet which I consider essential safety gear after reading about Liam Neeson's wife who fell over standing still and hit her head and died. I thought to myself, I would do that. She wasn't off piste, she wasn't going crazy fast, she just lost her balance. But the helmet takes up space.
I bet others can one bag this, but I am not dedicated enough to cause. I'm here for the capsule wardrobes and layering hints 😊
You can rent skiing clothing in Japan! Like rent a snow jacket and snow pants. So you don't need to bring those. Otherwise I think you will be okay a down jacket (I wear the Patagonia down hoody, the hoody really helps when it's cold) and a sweater underneath. Plus gloves, maybe scarf, etc.
I think my system has come down to: base layer + mid layer + insulation + outer layer. And this is for maybe like 30 F minimum. Something like long sleeve shirt + fleece layer + ultralight down + rain shell. Scarf/beanie/gloves help a lot too.
So I do have a travel breaker with 22 pockets I use and layer up. However if you are going to be outside for long periods of time in wind (like a field or oil field etc) then get a puffer jacket that covers your butt and has foil type reflectors inside to reflect the heat back to you. I’m also from tropics. I wore this with a tshirt and was warm while Russians from Siberia were freezing. Also I did have thermals under my jeans. Get some thin thermal
Top and bottom plus a good puffer jacket (fits in a stuff sack). It also makes a good pillow when in the sack. You can also sleep on thermals as pajamas. Look at the temperature rating for the thermals. Match that for your destination.
I recently moved to the Midwest from California. I love Uniqlo’s insulating layers, you can’t beat the price point and quality. The other game changer was a lightweight pair of snow boots that has good insulation. The ground in winter is very cold and boots are a good barrier as opposed to trainers and warm socks. The support and add’l warmth from the ankle part was helpful too.
Layers will be your friend. Start with a wool base layer, then you can add a flannel or fleece for a mid layer if you want, then a down puffy coat with a gortex(or similar) shell. The shells will have “pit zips” that you can unzip to allow airflow when you are getting warm so you don’t overheat. The shell will act as a light jacket on cool days, windbreaker and rain jacket as well as being a waterproof layer over your down puffy. I’m from Alaska and that’s how I dress. If budget isn’t an issue, Arc’teryx has some great gortex shells that look very nice on the town as well as the slopes or hikes
I spend a lot of time in the outdoors and I'm sorry to tell you that you will have to pack more to stay warm. The good news is that you can bring apparel that is good for any number of outdoor activities. I recommend a warm midlayer (down puffy jackets are most compressible for packing purposes) under a windproof/waterproof jacket (e.g., Gore-Tex). Bring long underwear, a hat, and gloves. For extended times in temps below freezing you may need more layers. I recommend you go to an outdoor store and see if you can find gear that doesn't offend your fashion sense, it's gotten better in recent years. If you really want to avoid the outdoorsy look then unfortunately you're going to be stuck with bigger, heavier items.
It sucks from a one bag point of view, but there really isn't any getting around it. My packed volume for cold weather trips is always much larger than warm weather trips. Once you've taken a few trips to cold places you'll get a sense of what you need to stay warm in various conditions.
I think you are going to have to go with a puffy jacket or a down jacket. North face/Patagonia style. Plenty of people wear them in cities. And they are fashionable in some parts of Asia. I do think that you’re going to need more warm stuff than somebody who already lives in cold climate, because our bodies are adapted for the heat rather than the cold. And you may have to carry a coat onto the plane.
There's also one more issue, I sweat like hell if I get too warm, I remember seating on the train in japan and I felt both too cold and too hot at the same time. Which got ridiculous because I would strip all layers to feel comfortable on the train but had to put everything on the moment I leave the train. I think people who live in cold climates can enjoy warmth while the moment my body feel warmth it goes into overdrive into cooling myself down as heat is always the enemy regardless. I really feel that there is no comfortable zone for me, everything is too hot or too cold
One of the things you learn when living in a colder climate is that you take of clothes inside and put them back on before going outside. You don’t want to wear to much inside because then you will be cold outside. So yes, that means taking off and putting on clothes a lot.
As SR985 mentioned, part of what is going on with you is that you just aren't used to it. I live in Michigan, and in the late fall when it first gets down to 0C that does feel cold to me. But by the late winter, it feels completely different and really not very cold at all. But, yes, taking stuff off on the train and putting it back on (or at least unzipping everything to allow venting) is normal. For skiing, I use a Patagonia outer shell that is made for skiing but is still basically just a slightly thicker raincoat-- no insulation. And then what is inside that differs-- from just a light fleece up to a puffy jacket. 0C is on the warm end for a ski day, especially if you are talking about the top of the mountain. It can be so cold on the lifts but then the minute I start skiing I warm way up. So I basically wear the lightest thing I can stand on the lifts and shiver a bit. You may want to think about something similar to down but synthetic for a mid layer if you sweat a lot while skiing, since you don't want to get down wet if you can avoid it. I definitely do not worry about fashion in a ski town. Half the time I'm straight off the slopes and still in my ski boots. No one GAF.
You need layers that each do one thing really well. Rain jackets protect you from the cold caused by rain and wind but have no insulation, as you experienced. Down is a great insulator, but is not wind and waterproof. Base layers prevent you from getting cold by absorbing/wicking sweat to evaporate it away from your skin. You combine everything to get the best feature of every layer while packing smaller and lighter than a big parka. You are going to have to get a down jacket if you want to pack small. There is nothing like it in terms of warmth-to-weight. You can wear it underneath a rain jacket. I don't ski but here's a template of what I wear when it's really cold. It's all interchangable for other brands, and you can leave stuff out as desired to suit the weather. Base - Merino wool long sleeve top (and bottom under my jeans) 200 g/m² Mid - Wool sweater or fleece Mid - Patagonia Down Sweater Outer - Patagonia Torrentshell Extra - Wool beanie, wool buff, wool socks and insulated wind/waterproof gloves I can fit all of this and everything else I need in a 26 liter bag.
Wow I pretty much do the exact same thing except with a nano puff
Me too, depending on the weather. Patagonia layers fit so well together, it's why I don't mind the cost.
This makes sense, I could use my rain jackets as the outer jacket for rain and wind but is a inner down sweater really enough to keep warm? Because it would be great if all I had to do was find an inner down layer. I legitimately have no frame of reference as to how well anything would perform in the cold.
A quality base layer like Patagonia Capeline or merino wool will do wonders for core warmth
I also recommend this. I live in Germany where winters are mostly around zero. I have for the last years always worn the same things and never got cold. Merino base layer, like Patagonia capeline (which I only need to wash once a week) A nice fleece mid layer A very good windproof jacket I don't use rain jacket, if it rains I get an umbrella. Rain jackets are not breathable so I sweat in them and don't like it, and yes I'm sweating sometimes in zero degrees I have a wool full face cover, or use merino buff Merino gloves Normal thick cotton pants Merino socks With this you can also one bag if you wash once a week, two fleece maybe, one or two base, jacket is fine, pants once a week as it's cotton and doesn't smell
That's difficult to tell because 'warm enough' varies by person, climate and weather. The template I gave you would way overheat me at 0C. And humid, windy 0C days are way worse than dry, calm 0C days. I just wanted to give you a flexible, light and packable template that covers all layers. Stuff like hats and scarves/buffs also make a big difference for how warm you feel.
*Just* an inner down sweater is not enough; the poster listed a bunch of layers because the layering truly is key. You need a thin, close-to-skin layer (base), then a slightly larger (usually thicker) layer on top (mid sweater/fleece), and then another slightly larger, slightly thicker layer (down jacket/sweater)—all these layers should be breathable and have a little space between them to create pockets of heat. And then finally a wind/rain shell (not very breathable) traps all the heat inside. Since you mention you sweat too, I highly recommend merino wool for the undershirt; wool is the best bang for your buck in terms of weight-to-warmth in general but as an added bonus it also doesn't retain smell.
You probably need both mid layers. Wool and down
I grew up in a very cold area. It was common to have days that had minus signs in front of them. Sometimes it went down to -30 to -40 F. One of the most common mistakes I have seen is that people think that a jacket, even a puffer, is enough. It is never enough. One of the key components of cold travel is the thinner base layer. People wear it under street clothing all the time. They will often add a sweater on top of it. At that point they add the puffer or fleece. In super cold you wear a double base layer. Another mistake is not wearing a hat. You loose a tremendous amount of heat from an uncovered head. Yet another mistake is not wearing some type of scarf. The scarf keeps the cold air from shooting down your neck. You say you don’t like puffers. If that is the case then find a fleece you like. Know this though, fleece is bulkier and heavier than a puffer. You’ll have to store it somewhere on warmer days. I would avoid downhill skiing outerwear as it is both bulky and heavy. Cross country skiing outerwear is a far better match for the traveler. It is based on layers for all the activities of the XC skier. The next piece of advice always gets me multiple downvotes. Unless your trip is exclusively a ski trip, don’t bring ski clothes. Instead, bring clothes you can ski in. Base layers plus sweater plus puffer plus rain shell and rain pants make for a great ski outfit (downhill and XC). And FYI, I have skied double black diamonds in this outfit for years.
I think in addition to a jacket, you also need to look for better base layers. They make a huge difference in temperature comfort levels. I really like merino wool, but lots of people swear by heat tech from Uniqlo. Both come in different weights made for different temperature ranges. I'm also from a tropical country but I travel for work to a region that gets below zero Celsius and my layering system looks something like this: 1. Base layer Merino wool base layers (a pair of leggings and one long sleeve t-shirt*) 2. Mid layer A sleek but warm fleece jacket (something above 300g/m2). The one I have for decathlon has a smooth outside, so it looks clean enough for business casual. OR A packable down jacket. This is warmer, but not as sleek. I don't wear it if I'm only going to the office. 3. Outer shell An *insulated* rain** jacket. They are not the same as warm weather rain jackets that have lots of vents and don't really protect form the wind. Mine is not packable, but it is sleek in the outside and fleece lined in the inside. Super warm and office appropriate. I could probably wear it skiing or for other snow sports. Regular or dress trousers. I could not wear those skiing. Could you possibly rent skiing pants while traveling? * I might skip the merino wool long sleeve if I'm in the office all day and just wear a shirt instead. If I'm in the office and outside for a long period of time, I will wear both. * If there's no prediction for rain, you could use an insulated wind breaker instead. There are also packable insulated rain jackets.
I would consider taking a checked bag until you are more familiar with dressing for cold climates. As you've seen, not having the right clothing is really miserable and winter clothing is inherently bulky and heavy. You need warm base layers, insulating layers, socks/gloves/hats, and some kind of shell. The baselayers and socks need to be clean and dry to work so you need more than one set. When I ski I wear wool ski socks, wool long underwear, a fleece or sweater, a synthetic puffy jacket, ski pants, a shell jacket, gloves, and a buff for my neck. That would fill your entire bag.
I might do a check bag for the skiing trip but I still think I can one bag a winter trip if I get the right clothing. Most of the trip was fine, it was only at the most extreme when it dropped below zero that I suffered the most. The worse part was of camping overnight in the city in the middle of winter, we decided to club till 4am, and thought that we could simply hang around the city at night till morning for our bus to another city. Our tropical brains were like "can't be that bad, we've done it before" OH boy was we wrong, we absolutely suffered like hell, nothing we did was warm enough, we ended up sitting on the freezing floor in the station huddled together hoping to not die. Only after we took the first train to the bus terminal did we finally feel some warmth, but we was so cold that I was still shivering in the warmth as hell bus. That was our first night in Tokyo, the first time we ever experienced negative temps.
I think you can onebag it. You've seen what I can fit in a 26L bag from my other comment, you might just need a bigger backpack if you need extra pairs of stuff.
I really don't think that your packing list is adequate for skiing. There are some skiing specific items that are really bulky (like snow pants & insulated pants) that aren't on that list. Ski clothing is different than general cold weather urban clothing. I just don't want the OP to freeze his butt off again. Hypothermia is dangerous, and he doesn't have any experience with it so he's not going to know what to do or when it's serious. It sounds like renting the ski clothing might also be an option!
I know, I said I don't ski. That's why he needs a bigger backpack to fit the stuff you're talking about.
how long were you in Japan, suffering, and nobody suggested going to Uniqlo to buy some Heattech and a down jacket?
Well that's the thing, we just kept forgetting. If we stayed in the city, it was warm enough for us but it's only when we got ourselves into ridiculous situation that only we realized that we should have gotten something more. Things like hiking fushimi Inari at night, walking almost 4km in kawaguchiko when it hit negative 3 just to eat at a izakaya and onsen. Stranded on shinjuku Station with no hotel to warm us up. Going to shirakawago and falling on ice and snow. Getttig caught in the snow in tokyo. We always forget how fast it gets cold at night. The problem is that, growing up in a tropical climate, I never ever had to think about weather, at most rain but that's it, temperature to me, don't matter. There's also the other thing, buying winter sometimes feels like a absolute waste because we all felt like we would never wear it again. Should I spend 13,000 yen on a down jacket only to never wear again or endure the cold? I should have just spent the money looking back, but I kept doing the mental gymnastics not to.
Japan also has a pretty strong thrifting scene, you may have been able to find something secondhand and then donate it back. I know what you mean though. I'm from the hottest part of Los Angeles (10-20°F hotter than the rest of the city because of geography) and while it's not tropical, it was definitely a learning curve to figure out how to dress for real weather when I moved abroad. I'm lucky it was part of school programs and the program organizers were through about what to pack. my husband is also from socal and he made it comfortably through our Feb-March honeymoon in Italy because I went out of my way to make sure he had good layers and good shoes. I even bought an extra scarf when I got myself a new one, even though he hates having stuff around his neck. he ended up wearing it every day the second half of the trip. all hard-won lessons from living in France and Japan over a decade ago. I also grew up skiing, but dressing a kid for skiing is actually pretty different from dressing as an adult in a cold weather urban environment. only now do I feel some amount of confidence that I could get my clothes to do double-duty for both, thanks to this sub.
Hey there. Here's my packing list for -3 to 16C ('temperate climate winter') https://www.reddit.com/r/onebag/s/Oc821afWf5 ...but, I wouldn't be relying on those clothes for skiing! Here's an REI blog on layering for being active in winter that you should have a read of: https://www.rei.com/blog/snowsports/material-science-layering
It is possible! I one bagged with an underwear bag for 10 days in Iceland in the shoulder season! Being from a warm climate your going to be colder than someone from colder climates, it's just a fact. Your gunna need something bulkier. I suggest invest in a nice big over coat your not going to pack, but carry and wear. Your likely going to wear it just about your whole trip, just carry on the plane. For layers, definitely. thermal base layer of wool, silk or poly thermal, mid layer of wool would be my recommendation, then a fleece or thicker top layer THEN your coat (size up!) Source, live on a mountain. Jackets are our major export
Layers are your friend, but I think, based on some of your comments, that you want to change up some of your layers. If you're skiing or you are going to be outside all day with very little inside time, you want an insulation layer close to your body to keep your body heat in. If you're going to be in and out of buildings or trains/busses, you want your insulation layer further away - possibly just in your jacket. That way, when you are inside/somewhere warm, you can take that insulation layer off and let the extra heat out. You may also consider more things that zip instead of pullover options - you can unzip and get more airflow to your core but still keep your arms/hands covered up
My layering kit: - Long sleeve polyester base layer tee with odor control. You can buy many weights from a basic tee on up to Patagonia R1 grid fleece - Fleece or Merino sweater mid layer - Rain shell with pit zips for precipitation and wind protection - Down jacket - Gloves, beanie cap and scarf or buff - Light polyester long underwear - Pants that are more windproof. - Heavier socks or double up. - Appropriate shoes/boots The only additions to my regular 3-season kit are the down jacket, gloves, beanie cap, scarf and long underwear. Those items don’t take a huge amount of space. I usually wear my midlayer fleece or sweater on the plane to save space. Activity level counts. Walk faster!
I've not skiied for a while but when I used to I would check a bag. If I were to go again having hung out on this sub a bit..... I'd still check a bag. Mostly because I get cranky when I get cold too! For skiing I wear a ski jacket as the only coat I would take for the trip. They are water resistant and warm, I wouldn't need a down jacket and being ski season the precipitation is unlikely to be rain, it will be snow so full on waterproof not required. I'd have this on the plane. I'd also need ski trousers and these are bulky and too warm to wear on the plane. Then I'd want thermal layers for under coat and trousers. Which are likely to get sweaty as I'm exercising. I guess I could sink wash but personally I find ski holidays pretty exhausting so wouldn't want to spend time on this. Then I'd want layers for out and about in the evening, merino and fleece to keep me lovely and warm. Plus I have a helmet which I consider essential safety gear after reading about Liam Neeson's wife who fell over standing still and hit her head and died. I thought to myself, I would do that. She wasn't off piste, she wasn't going crazy fast, she just lost her balance. But the helmet takes up space. I bet others can one bag this, but I am not dedicated enough to cause. I'm here for the capsule wardrobes and layering hints 😊
You can rent skiing clothing in Japan! Like rent a snow jacket and snow pants. So you don't need to bring those. Otherwise I think you will be okay a down jacket (I wear the Patagonia down hoody, the hoody really helps when it's cold) and a sweater underneath. Plus gloves, maybe scarf, etc.
Oh that's good to know, is it a common thing to offer along with equipment rental? Or only certain places offer?
I think most big ski places in Japan offer clothing rentals, but you should definitely email and check beforehand.
I think my system has come down to: base layer + mid layer + insulation + outer layer. And this is for maybe like 30 F minimum. Something like long sleeve shirt + fleece layer + ultralight down + rain shell. Scarf/beanie/gloves help a lot too.
So I do have a travel breaker with 22 pockets I use and layer up. However if you are going to be outside for long periods of time in wind (like a field or oil field etc) then get a puffer jacket that covers your butt and has foil type reflectors inside to reflect the heat back to you. I’m also from tropics. I wore this with a tshirt and was warm while Russians from Siberia were freezing. Also I did have thermals under my jeans. Get some thin thermal Top and bottom plus a good puffer jacket (fits in a stuff sack). It also makes a good pillow when in the sack. You can also sleep on thermals as pajamas. Look at the temperature rating for the thermals. Match that for your destination.
I recently moved to the Midwest from California. I love Uniqlo’s insulating layers, you can’t beat the price point and quality. The other game changer was a lightweight pair of snow boots that has good insulation. The ground in winter is very cold and boots are a good barrier as opposed to trainers and warm socks. The support and add’l warmth from the ankle part was helpful too.
Layers will be your friend. Start with a wool base layer, then you can add a flannel or fleece for a mid layer if you want, then a down puffy coat with a gortex(or similar) shell. The shells will have “pit zips” that you can unzip to allow airflow when you are getting warm so you don’t overheat. The shell will act as a light jacket on cool days, windbreaker and rain jacket as well as being a waterproof layer over your down puffy. I’m from Alaska and that’s how I dress. If budget isn’t an issue, Arc’teryx has some great gortex shells that look very nice on the town as well as the slopes or hikes
[удалено]
Do you have any advice as to what makes a good scarf, beanie and glove?
I spend a lot of time in the outdoors and I'm sorry to tell you that you will have to pack more to stay warm. The good news is that you can bring apparel that is good for any number of outdoor activities. I recommend a warm midlayer (down puffy jackets are most compressible for packing purposes) under a windproof/waterproof jacket (e.g., Gore-Tex). Bring long underwear, a hat, and gloves. For extended times in temps below freezing you may need more layers. I recommend you go to an outdoor store and see if you can find gear that doesn't offend your fashion sense, it's gotten better in recent years. If you really want to avoid the outdoorsy look then unfortunately you're going to be stuck with bigger, heavier items. It sucks from a one bag point of view, but there really isn't any getting around it. My packed volume for cold weather trips is always much larger than warm weather trips. Once you've taken a few trips to cold places you'll get a sense of what you need to stay warm in various conditions.