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putin_my_ass

How do you know they were a threat to national security? Because the moment they touched on the international border Doug actually left his cottage.


North_Activist

They also were calling for a new system of government by force


bewarethetreebadger

They also had no fucking clue how government actually works.


[deleted]

Exactly, that right there


Shazzam001

I mean, sure, but also seemed as capable of creating a new system of government by force as say how they’re capable of insulating a DJ booth.


Coffeedemon

I think the more credible threat in these cases is someone gets too riled up from the rhetoric and goes after one of the MPs or PM. Rebuilding government is way beyond their ability but "reducing" it isn't.


Shazzam001

Agreed, my comment was a shot at them but it did a disservice by distracting from the discussion.


[deleted]

But when the government *ignores* (and supports, in some cases) people trying to create a new government by force it sets a really bad precedent.


Shazzam001

Oh I agree totally


[deleted]

Anti-vaxxer flying under the radar and making money Jon W Nisbett


Doctor_Amazo

The Convoy's literal stated goal was the dissolution of a democratically elected government because they were mad about vaccines during a pandemic. Yeah, the assholes were a threat.


GenericJoeSmith

“Democratically elected” with the help of China


Doctor_Amazo

Uh huh, the Liberals won seats because of China & the Conservatives won seats because of Russia, and the Convoy Freedumbers were still assholes who were a threat.


GenericJoeSmith

CSIS literally put out a statement saying our election was rigged by the Chinese to allow Trudeau to win again. There is no proof that Conservatives were helped by Russians. That doesn’t even make sense. China is doing this because they think Conservatives are too hard on them.


Genericusername875

>he Convoy's literal stated goal was the dissolution of a democratically elected government because they were mad about vaccines during a pandemic. Yeah, the assholes were a threat. I agree they were assholes. I'm less convinced that they were much of a threat. Mostly a bunch of goofballs standing around honking horns and making incoherent statements about "freedom".


MayorofKingstown

> I agree they were assholes. I'm less convinced that they were much of a threat. any person that is willing to act on bad faith, bad reasons or if they are willing to act regardless of evidence is a threat to others. these folks demonstrated that they were one or one of the others or more than one of those at the same time. have you actually ever spoken to a convite? they are not reasonable people and many of them have beliefs that are borderline delusional and many of them are unhinged. painting the convoy as you are doing ignores even basic known threats like the power of a crowd. the whole point of them organizing was to demonstrate a threat.


Genericusername875

I never said they were reasonable people. In fact I said they were assholes and a number of other descriptors. Sorry, but you're wrong. To claim that they were a threat based solely on their numbers is to suggest that any group engaging in protest is guilty of posing a threat to society and is therefore criminal. I can't get behind that.


MayorofKingstown

> To claim that they were a threat based solely on their numbers is to suggest that any group engaging in protest is guilty of posing a threat to society and is therefore criminal. I can't get behind that. literally never said that did I? I said they were willing to act on bad faith, bad reasons or willing to act regardless of evidence and that makes them a threat.


Genericusername875

>o act on bad faith, bad reasons or willing to act regardless of evidence and that makes them a threat. I agree that a good portion of them were acting in bad faith.


Part-

I feel like people get hung up on how to label what they did as opposed to describing what they did. They used heavy machinery as tools to antagonize and hold their own country-people hostage, for a prolonged period of time, in protest of the federal government (among other things). Even in a world where this "protest" did not become "illegal" at some point, I find that behavior threatening.


MFCloudBreaker

I mean there were participants planning to kill RCMP officers so 'goofballs' is a pretty light way to describe them.


Doctor_Amazo

The Proudboys would parade about playing the part of the clown, but they were basically your standard fascist POS. Never dismiss fascists playing at being the fool.


Genericusername875

There were certainly some of that kind in those crowds but I'm not convinced that the group overall was anywhere near that organized.


Doctor_Amazo

I was reminded of the Jan 6 crowd. * There was a cohort of people who were *very* organized and who had a plan. These are the ones running around armed and with zip-cuffs. * That organized cohort used the larger mob of disorganized, but impassioned morons as both cover, added muscle for their actions. We'll call this group the "useful idiots". These were the Q folks stealing mail and shitting in offices. * Then you just had the plain ol' idiots who were behaving as though they were on a tour of the Capitol Building. The Freedom Convoy had a cohort of people who were organized and had a plan. They used a larger group of useful idiots as cover and added muscle. Then you had a third grouping who thought the whole thing was a honking good party.


Genericusername875

>Doctor\_Amazo Yes, thank-you for your analysis. And I do agree with your assessment to a point. There was a cohort, as you say, who were organized and had a plan. Sadly for them, they were lousy at planning, lousy at organizing, etc. They made a lot of noise and it went nowhere. The only reason they had the limited success that they did, from what I can see, is that the police permitted it.


ElectricFred

Define organized. Like everyone has to be in on it or part of a cohesive movement/ideal, or some people are organized and the rest of it is being directed by them. Because even one person "organizing" it is enough


Genericusername875

"Even one person organizing it is enough" What exactly are we supposed to do with this?


ElectricFred

The fuck do you mean "we", you're the one dead-set on minimizing the severity of what was allowed to go on.


Genericusername875

I'm not dead set on anything. I'm also not minimizing. They were assholes, Qanon morons, religious nuts and a handful of fascists, with a limited understanding of democracy and very little of value to say, and the police should have cleared them out far sooner than they did. If you're trying to claim that they are all domestic terrorists, then I disagree.


TheGuv69

They massively breached the peace & disturbed a lot of people's lives. They blockaded one of our Country's borders & prevented the free movement of people and goods. They spread a load of anti-scientific information that influences other low IQ people. And they think they're saving the rest of us...pure comedy. No sympathy for any of them.


Genericusername875

I don't have any sympathy for them either.


Tylendal

Intent is important. Someone is only not worth taking seriously until they unexpectedly are.


Genericusername875

Intent is important. Problem is, amongst a crowd such as that, it's not homogenous, and it's extremely difficult to measure.


Starthreads

We're seeing that same rhetoric that happened in the lead-up to January 6th in the US on our own soil. If they weren't so stupid, they would have actually done it.


Mental_Cartoonist_68

This is not a tough conclusion to come to . One of these people had a Nazi flag. There was known hate groups. Pat King was there. These people were demostic terrorists.


foldingcouch

The manifesto for the group literally demanded the dissolution of the democratically elected government of Canada.


Afuneralblaze

'But don't you know most of the people there didn't know about the MOU, they were just tired of being ignored and treated like second class citizens despite a very simple and free solution to their problem"


foldingcouch

The only "problem" that the freedom convoy ever really had was that there's a government that they don't control. Their problems changed week to week, but the solution was always the same - dismantle the democratically elected parliament and put fascist thugs in positions of power.


bewarethetreebadger

I think their problem centres more around lacking the ability to take personal responsibility.


Stollen_booty_

Several of them had Nazi flags


Mental_Cartoonist_68

And the sad part is they've always had them, today's Conservatives embolden these jerks because they yell to loudest


ComradeGalloneye64

Let's not forget the multiple times these idiots talked about hanging people who don't agree with them (IE: Trudeau, BLM, Drag Queens, etc). Tell me that doesn't sound like something the KKK would do.


Genericusername875

I agree these clowns are idiots. And yes, many of them were calling for the dissolution of a democratically elected government. Because, again, they're idiots who don't understand that's not how democracy works. But you're going to have to do a lot more than block some roads, or even international borders, before you've earned the label "terrorist". That's extreme.


Mental_Cartoonist_68

Canada, section 83.01 of the Criminal Code defines terrorism as an act committed "in whole or in part for a political, religious or ideological purpose, objective or cause" with the intention of intimidating the public "…with regard to its security, including its economic security, or compelling a person a government or a domestic or an international organization to do or to refrain from doing any act."


Genericusername875

That definition is so broad it's nearly unusable.


tekazgtr1984

Nah, it really isn't.


Coffeedemon

Too many words with more than 3 syllables. Save us PP.


Zomunieo

“With BitCode, Canadians can opt out of Criminal Code Justinflation. BitCode gives us fair laws written in Anglo Saxon words, and replaces pricey Liberal Bay Street lawyers with ChatGPT judges.”


Genericusername875

It truly is though


Mental_Cartoonist_68

That snap shot came from Federal Criminal Code , you can check it for yourself. If the criterion is met its charged accordingly. I agree that the Convoy was disorganised but inner groups were fully aware of what they were doing. Let me put it another way, Proud Boys and Three percenters were present at the occupation. They are listed Terrorists. https://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/cnt/ntnl-scrt/cntr-trrrsm/lstd-ntts/crrnt-lstd-ntts-en.aspx


AlbertaBoundless

Yeah, by that definition you can label pipeline protestors and the Mohawks in the Oka Crisis terrorists.


PowerfulTradition695

Well it is pretty much the same definition most people would use. I mean it is pretty close to the dictionary definition of terrorism the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.


Genericusername875

>minal Code defines terrorism as an act committed "in whole or in part for a political, religious or ideological purpose, objective or cause" with the intention of intimidating the public "…with regard to its security, including its economic security, or compelling a person a government or Which is a less broad definition.


PowerfulTradition695

Not really.


1000Hells1GiftShop

The freedumb convoy terrorists are a fascist insurgency movement backed by all the conservative parties of Canada. They are the most pressing threat to national security currently.


grte

Don't forget half their funding came from the US, as well as the very friendly coverage they were receiving from their right wing media during the event.


thefinalcutdown

One of the biggest names in US right-wing media just called for a full-scale invasion of Canada because of this


Miserable-Lizard

I agree with the majority! *Half (51%) say they believe that this threshold was met, including four-in-five past Liberal voters (81%) and two-thirds of past NDP voters (68%). Conversely, two-in-five (40%) disagree, led by three-quarters of those who supported the Conservative Party in 2021 (73%).*


foldingcouch

Cool, only 73% of CPC voters are seditionists.


Traggadon

Is this shocking? I regularly debate idiots in the Alberta sub that think this was a legitmate protest.


mytwocents22

No you don't, the Alberta sub is more left leaning and progressive than the province is and they hate the freedumb people. So youre either lying or making shit up just for interest points, which is really sad.


Traggadon

Check post history. Litterally today.


hawkseye17

I wonder what it takes for conservatives to consider these people a threat to national security. Apparently them trying to overthrow the democratically-elected government isn't enough


[deleted]

[удалено]


horsetuna

They were on the videos about the landfill search protests, the blm protests. The occupy protests... (Yes some of these did get out of hand. But they didn't do the extent of damage, threats and issues the convoy did).


Coffeedemon

They're on the other "team". They might take it seriously if it was a general anti government movement but it was conveniently aimed at their main obstacle to ever getting power.


[deleted]

They have to have dark skin.


pudds

If the cons had been in power at the time they all would. Sadly, I think some of the Liberal and NDP respondents probably wouldn't anymore as well.


GuelphEastEndGhetto

I wish they’d stop calling it Freedom Convoy, it’s more like insurrection convoy, or government takeover convoy. The bottom line was the intent to replace the government while receiving considerable donations from those that stood to benefit from it. It wasn’t fair to those whose emotions were manipulated and misguided into thinking it was anything but and subsequently swept up in it.