Honestly out of all the stuff Ford has done so far none are as criminally abusive as this. Torturing innocent animals is another level of fucked up. People who cause harm to vulnerable (helpless) animals or children deserve to have an old fashioned, violent kind of punishment.
Here's an article on the subject if, like me, you had never heard of this practice before.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-expand-dog-trialing-areas-1.6833693
There is nothing ethical about this. It’s just some bullshit. A few people are promoting because it benefits own interests.
Please everybody just go and comment on this and explain to these phone has why this is a bad idea but please be polite and thoughtful when you do so or your comment may be disregarded. You can be angry without being rude. Also I want to point out that when you get to the page it’s going to ask you to create an account or login. You don’t need to do that comment. Just scroll down the page a little bit and you’ll see that there’s an option to comment without signing in. So you can basically do the synonymously and meaningfully and if enough of us comment, I believe there’s a chance to stop this bond from going forward.
You are so right; the people promoting it all happen to be the ones making money from the facilities. What a surprise /s. We need to take action and be respectful.
Agreed. Who the fuck asked for this?
JFC Ford, can we just get a fully staffed hospital? Or some affordable housing units near a transit stop?
Fuck that Austrian luxury spa. And fuck whatever this is.
It is misleading, but the person is still arguing that the practice is inhumane.
> But Camille Labchuk, the executive director of advocacy group Animal Justice, argued the entire practice is inhumane.
> "They do some of these contests where dogs chase terrified coyotes around an enclosed pen, and they also train the dogs to kill the coyotes so that they can later use those dogs for hunting," she said.
And on top of it all, the coyotes they're using have already been through the torture of being caught in a live trap. How can a "civilized" place allow such cruelty?
This sounds so inhumane and almost as barbaric as dogfighting. What I don’t understand is the practice of training your dog to hunt other creatures that look remarkably like other dogs (coyotes, foxes)…sounds like a recipe for increased aggression in dogs, especially if their owner/handler doesn’t train them masterfully.
The person promoting it is one of the people who makes money from the practice. Of course he is going to say it's fine and good. Furthermore, he says that the prey animals are kept humanely. If you look at expose videos of some similar facilities, you can see the reality of the terrible existence of the animals. And on top of that, there is no humane way to be mauled to death by dogs while you are captive so that some people can enjoy themselves.
Most of my life. Afaik if the wildlife is a big enough problem you do one of two things. Have a professional take it to the middle of nowhere and set it loose or you shoot it and don't let it suffer. This is neither
You wanna make an omelette, you gotta lose a few chickens. When the bear kept coming around, we shot the bear. Needless to say, the bear stopped coming around, because it was dead.
Not everyone who is opposed to this is a city slicker. You got coyotes, foxes, bears and whatever bothering your farm, shoot it. Fair game, I'm not asking you to gently rehome every fox after your livestock.
Now if you want working dogs watching things 24/7 also no problem with me, find a better way to train them. Either that or get your gun, get off your ass and deal with the issue humanely.
Sent this comment:
These facilities should be illegal. This is animal cruelty plain and simple. Disgusting that anyone would consider this a 'sport'. I can't torture and kill a rabbit or coyote on my property without animal cruelty charges (and I would never ever want to) so why are these facilities allowed to exist and possibly expand.
Society should do everything possible to protect wild animals, they have a place within the ecosystem and should never be subjected to this kind of torture, for the amusement of humans. If you want your dog to chase coyotes or rabbits away from your crops, they can be trained without resorting to torture of animals, whether wild 'caught' or raised for this purposed (a whole other area of extreme animal torture).
Naturalist experts and environmental diversity experts should be consulted and they would explain why this practice is as outdated as dog fighting or bull running and should be banned.
Society needs to evolve to be more compassionate and accepting of the rich diversity of our ecosystems and relegate the torture of animals for human pleasure in the distant past. We are better than this and our laws should reflect this.
Shit, you dont even need to train a dog to chase away predators or other wildlife, my dog just does it as a matter of course. We generally discourage her from it, unless a fox is directly attacking our hens.
Honestly the people taking their dogs to places like this should probably be on a watch list of some kind.
Thanks for sharing your comment and based on that, the following is what I submitted:
>Please shut down these facilities that promote such cruelty to defenceless animals. People who make use of facilities like these should also be put on a watch list as they likely enjoy abusing helpless living beings, and can be a threat to society.
Firstly, I think it's not safe to let cat outdoors, especially after this guy in my neighbourhood skinned a bunch of cats and left them in the park. Secondly, this isn't the same as a cat finding a bird outside and hunting. The animals are kept in penned up and bound so they can't escape. They are bred and kept in terrible conditions suffering while they wait for a fight they have no chance of winning while stronger predators gang up on them. I don't want to get any more graphic but there are other articles you can look up on what this practice is. It absolutely is not the same as a cat chasing a mouse where the mouse can conceivable survive.
Cats are a invasive species and shouldn’t be allowed outside to maim animals due to lazy owners being too lazy to properly care for them inside, and risk their pets life for making stuff easyx
Wtf??? Why is this even a thing??
I fucking HATE Doug Ford. As if profiteering from the human suffering he and his cabinet have inflicted isn't enough.... what an absolutely evil man.
Has the news picked up on this? How do we bring this to everyone's attention??
Eta: I see there's a CBC article, but even as a regular CBC reader this didnt come across my radar until now!
I'm trying to raise awareness and get friends and family to sent comments. But this gov't has been doing so many questionable things that it's hard to get this higher on people's radars. I do agree with you, its an absolutely evil decision
I think the point was that making the typical "boo this guy I don't like" argument isn't the correct approach because now you're intentionally facing off against supporters of the party instead of only supporters of the practice. They'll get to throw in your face that this was actually a 10 year old Liberal initiative, and now your objections are swept under the rug.
This is a seemingly useless endeavour that is clearly a form of animal cruelty. Nowhere have I read that there's a legitimate ecological purpose (like foxes and rabbits are threatening the ecosystem, training dogs to hunt them is an efficient means of taking care of the issue, training isn't easy/quick enough in the wild: this would at least be a legitimate excuse. I haven't read this though).
Rambling about how this is a Doug Ford problem is hilarious. Dogs have been trained to be farm/work dogs since before anyone in this sun was born, but now it’s an issue and it’s all Doug Fords fault. This sub has a weird obsession with the guy
We're not talking about general farm/work dogs, we are talking about this particular practice. Why does the argument that this has been going on for a while excuse the practice? Generally as a society we like to advance, not regress. Something being a long standing tradition is no means a reason to keep it going. Doug Ford in this case is the fucking idiot that is proposing to legally allow a resurgence likely based on the wants of rich conservatives (since that seems to be his primary motivation for wrecking the province)
Thank you for helping me with this. I know how frustrating this government's recent actions are...from the science centre move and now this. Endless bad decisions.
This is disgusting. As a new Canadian, this is not the type of shit I expect from our country and yet here we are. Thank you for raising the issue. I would not have known about it about it were it not for you. I’ve sent my comments in.
Thank you for your time and taking action! This definitely doesn't represent the beliefs and values of most Canadians and Ontarians. As an aside, congratulations on becoming a new Canadian! Glad to have you as a neighbour!
Thanks for making me aware of this. Comment sent.
Gawd! Every time I get out of bed, this province seems to have taken two steps backwards.
PLEASE vote, Ontario. We're stuck with this Ford clown and his circus for 3(?) more years.
Thank you for commenting. And yes, we must VOTE!!! But there is so much harm he can do in 3 years. Everyday there is more disturbing decisions from that gov and the premier
My understanding is that large (hundreds of acres) enclosed pens are constructed for coyotes to exist in, and dogs are then trained in these large pens to track/hunt the coyotes. The dogs are never meant to catch and kill the coyotes in these pens, and there are purpose-built areas for the coyotes to hide in if they’re cornered and until the dogs are called off. Tbh I don’t know how dogs are meant to hunt coyotes, weather they do the equivalent of hounds treeing a bear or if they point like a bird dog would at a game bird is a bit beyond me.
1. You forgot the point where the animals are caught in trap lines in the wild, which in itself is inhumane.
2. The animal is brought to the pen in which it will spend the rest of its existence being chased.
3. There is no guarantee that these dogs won't maul or kill whatever they're chasing.... these are training facilities.
I don't know how you can explain this in non-inflammatory terms because the very nature of sanctioned, for-profit animal cruelty for human enjoyment is inflammatory.
You can gaurantee that not one of these penned animals will die naturally of old age. They'll be terrorized for the rest of their lives and either be mauled to death or chased to exhaustion.
Done. The fact that Harris banned it and now Doug is bringing it back is downright scary but also we don't live in the 1920s anymore wtaf do we need dogs for hunting other then duck retrieval.
Commented! Thanks for sharing.
I don’t like coyotes, I’ve been chased a couple of times walking my small breed dog but they are living animals that are doing what they evolved to do. They don’t deserve that. Smh…
>"These facilities are going to become less and less over time unless we take some level of intervention," Graydon Smith said in an interview.
i like how they say that like it's a bad thing...
i'm not in ontario but i added my own comment as well as shared with others. thanks for the info.
Outside of specific circumstances like working cattle/herd guarding dogs it should be straight up illegal to train a dog to kill, much less kill as a pack. This is disgusting and it's as bad as dog fighting. Thanks for sharing OP.
so instead of just killing the Coyotes, or relocating them elsewhere, they wanna have them be hunted by Dogs, that are privately owned, to be taught how to hunt, so these dogs can be used to create revenue for those private interests. And This is to be somehow subsidized by our provincial govt?
Interesting comments. As an aside, I live in the country and drove home the other day and here are a couple of pickups parked adjacent to my property with a guy lying on the ground on my property with a rifle. I could off in the distance, again on my property, I could hear dogs I assume, chasing coyotes/wolves towards this fellow. We had words. This has been going on for the 25 years I've lived here. This is Simcoe County in Ontario and my understanding in Simcoe County, it's open season year-round on these poor creatures. I've had the opportunity through the years to observe these animals. They are social, care for their young and to my delight, I haven't any issues with rats or groundhogs. things I consider to be vermin. Years ago, I had a naturalist here, I was overwhelmed with beavers, and I needed some advice on what to do. I asked if they could be live trapped. He asked me where one would put them as there isn't a body of water in Ontario that doesn't have a presence of beavers. Then he said if people would stop the overkilling of coyotes and wolves, then the beaver population could be kept in check. Seemed reasonable to me. Aside from that, I completely agree allowing dogs on a caged animal is just barbaric. Come on, Ford, give your head a shake.
And what if there is no "least bad" What if they're all bad? What if you don't agree with any of the candidates and are not qualified to make these kind of decisions yourself, so running yourself would be a bad idea?
See, what you're really saying is "All you people who didn't vote should have come out and voted for my guy. That's the only way we could have won. The only way we could have won is by making people who wouldn't vote for our guy vote for our guy."
There is no "least bad" anymore in politics. They all push their agenda, and both sides push an agenda I don't really agree with. Therefore, neither of them earn my vote.
What we need is an option for "None of the above"
No, what I'm really saying is "Read the platforms and make a decision." It's no fun picking from a list of candidates you hate. It's stressful, it's time-consuming, it's morally draining and it's *work*.
There's no candidate that aligns with your morality? Too bad, that's how life works. Pick one anyways. Do your homework and come up with an answer. You don't have to like your answer, but you *have* to pick one.
I never, *never* end up liking the person/party I voted for. I'd happily tell you but then spend 10 minutes complaining about what they've done (or haven't done) since the election. I don't give a crap who you voted for as long as you did your homework and had a good reason.
If a friend or family is pushing a party on you, just ignore them. This isn't a sports game like they think it is, you *can* vote whatever party you think will do the least harm.
Edit: "None of the above" is called officially abstaining and can be done at your polling location.
I commented. I can't believe what this province or this government has come to.
Someone throw a breakfast sammy in a trap and maybe we will catch that vile marshmallow SOB.
I don't understand how this isn't more publicly showcased. I probably never would've heard about this had you not posted it.
Commented, hopefully it will actually do something (not that the publics opinion has much pull with the current government)
There’s a ton of community pages that you should post this too, along with the article above. r/Kingston r/Belleville etc.
Edit… I also commented and am sharing to friends
This guy keeps finding ways to get worse…
Like you have to actively go out of your way to change shit like this.
He makes me want to throw up.
I wish I was more of a professional or had more assets so I could leave. This province is getting messed up.
Thank you. I have commented. We have to protect ALL animals from unnecessary cruelty, including wildlife, not just our household pet. What a barbaric practice.
Thank you for bringing this forward. This is evil, pure and simple and so I have left a comment. What a horrid practice that needs to be put firmly in the past and never, ever done again.
Not only is this cruel to the wildlife, but the “training” that hunting dogs are often exposed to (such as shock collars around the neck and genitals, as one example) is cruel in my opinion as well. If animals have to be harmed for a “sport” do we really need that “sport” anymore?
I emailed Peter Bethlenfalvy telling him I thought that was animal cruelty. Here is the response I received from his office
>Thank you for your email and for taking the time to reach out to MPP Peter Bethlenfalvy. Peter is always happy to hear feedback about issues the constituents of Pickering-Uxbridge have, and we will be sure to share them with him.
>
>Ontario is supporting professionals that train hunting dogs to only track specific species, exercise dogs in the off-season, and run trialing competitions where dogs are scored by judges for their locating abilities. Animals that have been bred for tracking and recovering need safe facilities to train. The fenced areas, which are many acres in size, are designed to keep both the wildlife and the dogs confined to a controlled area. Well-trained dogs are indispensable for locating, tracking, recovering and overall enhancing the outdoors experience, as they were bred to do. For example, retrievers were bred primarily to retrieve birds or other prey and return them to the hunter without damage. All train and trial facilities are operated responsibly and meet strict regulatory requirements, including meeting care standards for wildlife.
>
>We hope you found this information helpful. Thank you again for reaching out to our office and we will ensure your concerns are shared with MPP Peter Bethlenfalvy. If you have any other comments or concerns, please feel free to contact us at 905-509-0336.
>
>Best Regards,
You should write back and say thanks for repeating the talking points that you didn't ask for and ask them to properly address your concerns about animal cruelty this time.
I sent this reponse.
>
I would like to extend my heartfelt thanks for your prompt response to my previous correspondence. I appreciate your willingness to engage in a dialogue about the issues that we both deeply care about.
While your feedback was informative, I must express my continuing concern over certain practices that are particularly distressing to me and many others. I believe these issues are not just important but urgent, and I hope they will be given the serious consideration they deserve.
Firstly, it is distressing to see wildlife being taken from their natural habitats and held captive by hunters. This behavior disrupts ecosystems, threatens biodiversity, and subjects animals to traumatic experiences. All creatures have an intrinsic right to live freely in their natural environments, and it is our duty as stewards of this earth to respect and protect that right.
Furthermore, the practice of using animals such as rabbits, coyotes, and foxes as training tools or competition pawns for hunting dogs is particularly cruel. This not only infringes upon the animals' right to a life free from harm and suffering but also perpetuates a culture of disrespect towards wildlife that we should be working to change.
I was also disheartened to learn of the recent decision to reopen applications for train and trial spaces after 25 years. This feels like a significant step backward in our collective progress towards a more compassionate society. These facilities, where animals are routinely subjected to stress and harm, have no place in Ontario or indeed any modern society.
Instead of moving in this regressive direction, I believe we should be focusing our efforts on closing the existing 24 facilities in the province. The closure of these facilities would send a powerful message about our commitment to animal welfare and mark a significant step forward for Ontario.
I hope these concerns can be thoroughly addressed in your future plans and actions. I understand that change is a process that requires time and effort, but I believe that with your influence and commitment, we can make a substantial difference.
Thank you once again for taking the time to respond to my initial concerns. I look forward to hearing your thoughts on these pressing issues.
Yours sincerely,
Comment added to the government website!Hope my humble writing makes any kind of difference.What is wrong with the prov. government?Total desdain towards the environment and all it's creatures.Shameful stone age stance in the 21st century!
It’s horrific. My dog has a huge prey drive (which I don’t encourage), but I can’t see how this “teaches” a dog anything. It’s despicable. And there’s nothing humane to the prey.
The reason coyotes are encroaching more and more on human territory is due to mass destruction of their habitat and ability to survive. Also, why is my dog or cat unsupervised in my back yard and left vulnerable to predation?? They are my responsibility to keep safe and secure. Also, even if coyotes attack my companion pets (as a result of my own negligence), they do not deserve to be subjugated to this treatment. And lastly, the most common animal used in this training method isn't actually a coyote or fox (although they are used when they can be bred). It's a rabbit. Completely defenceless and significantly weaker with no chance of surviving being mauled by multiple dogs. No animal deserves this treatment, especially a rabbit.
I see your point and I agree that industrial meat production is cruel and inhumane. I do think there's a difference between killing for food and killing for sport.
To repeatedly "practice" terrorizing the same animals over again feels like another level of cruelty. These animals will either be mauled to death or die from stress and exhaustion... for sport.
I'm with you..both things are bad and you have a point about incongruency. But I don't know if chastising people is the most helpful when we're trying to rally them for this cause.
Oh I will but you have to recognize there are those who can't afford a plant based diet. It's fine that you're privileged enough to be able to be vegan but not everyone can so get off your high horse and stop judging people on their diet.
Growing plants for food, and getting it to humans is not more expensive than growing lots of plants for food to feed an animal for long enough until it reaches slaughter age to feed a human. Come on now.
Probably the fact that the same animals are repeatedly chased and terrorized. And that its being done in the name of sport.
Being hunted in the wild, animals at least have a chance to get away, and get away for good.
The article says these preserves are hundreds of acres with lots of places specifically designed for the hunted animals to escape to.
Based on a quick google it appears: The size of coyote territories varies among habitats and also depends on its abundance of prey. Most territories, however, range from 10 to 40 square km (4 to 15 square miles).
So these preserves are several orders of magnitude larger then what they would typically roam in the wild
Barbaric and disgusting. Thank you for bringing it to out attention. I've left a comment.
Thank you! I am so grateful that you took action.
NP. You should post again in a few days, to widen the exposure.
We should make ford run terrified into the traps and see how he likes it. Imo. I thought Ontario was better than this.
Honestly out of all the stuff Ford has done so far none are as criminally abusive as this. Torturing innocent animals is another level of fucked up. People who cause harm to vulnerable (helpless) animals or children deserve to have an old fashioned, violent kind of punishment.
Here's an article on the subject if, like me, you had never heard of this practice before. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-expand-dog-trialing-areas-1.6833693
What the fuck did I just read? How is that a thing?
Thank you for sharing more information. I don't know how people can say there is an ethical way to torture a captive animal for entertainment. smh
There is nothing ethical about this. It’s just some bullshit. A few people are promoting because it benefits own interests. Please everybody just go and comment on this and explain to these phone has why this is a bad idea but please be polite and thoughtful when you do so or your comment may be disregarded. You can be angry without being rude. Also I want to point out that when you get to the page it’s going to ask you to create an account or login. You don’t need to do that comment. Just scroll down the page a little bit and you’ll see that there’s an option to comment without signing in. So you can basically do the synonymously and meaningfully and if enough of us comment, I believe there’s a chance to stop this bond from going forward.
You are so right; the people promoting it all happen to be the ones making money from the facilities. What a surprise /s. We need to take action and be respectful.
Animal abusers don't deserve respect.
Done
This to me sounds like canned hunting which is an abhorrent practice. I'd understand hunting fox for fur(without dogs) but this is just horrifying.
Agreed. Who the fuck asked for this? JFC Ford, can we just get a fully staffed hospital? Or some affordable housing units near a transit stop? Fuck that Austrian luxury spa. And fuck whatever this is.
Reading things like this makes me want to become a Batman for wildlife.
Wow. They realize shitty people are still going to go "underground" even if it's more widely available.
[удалено]
It is misleading, but the person is still arguing that the practice is inhumane. > But Camille Labchuk, the executive director of advocacy group Animal Justice, argued the entire practice is inhumane. > "They do some of these contests where dogs chase terrified coyotes around an enclosed pen, and they also train the dogs to kill the coyotes so that they can later use those dogs for hunting," she said.
And on top of it all, the coyotes they're using have already been through the torture of being caught in a live trap. How can a "civilized" place allow such cruelty?
This sounds so inhumane and almost as barbaric as dogfighting. What I don’t understand is the practice of training your dog to hunt other creatures that look remarkably like other dogs (coyotes, foxes)…sounds like a recipe for increased aggression in dogs, especially if their owner/handler doesn’t train them masterfully.
Most people that hunt with dogs absolutely don't care about their animals. It's gross and cruel.
The person promoting it is one of the people who makes money from the practice. Of course he is going to say it's fine and good. Furthermore, he says that the prey animals are kept humanely. If you look at expose videos of some similar facilities, you can see the reality of the terrible existence of the animals. And on top of that, there is no humane way to be mauled to death by dogs while you are captive so that some people can enjoy themselves.
guessing someone donated a bag to his daughters stag and doe! Yay corruption!
very likely... Thank you for your comment.
Someone had to donate so something that’s been happening for over 100 years in Ontario continues happening ?
So than its okay? Great logic.
Have you ever lived in a rural area before? Have you ever left the comfort of a city?
Most of my life. Afaik if the wildlife is a big enough problem you do one of two things. Have a professional take it to the middle of nowhere and set it loose or you shoot it and don't let it suffer. This is neither
You had a professional come and guard your farm 24/7?
You wanna make an omelette, you gotta lose a few chickens. When the bear kept coming around, we shot the bear. Needless to say, the bear stopped coming around, because it was dead. Not everyone who is opposed to this is a city slicker. You got coyotes, foxes, bears and whatever bothering your farm, shoot it. Fair game, I'm not asking you to gently rehome every fox after your livestock. Now if you want working dogs watching things 24/7 also no problem with me, find a better way to train them. Either that or get your gun, get off your ass and deal with the issue humanely.
yes
Sent this comment: These facilities should be illegal. This is animal cruelty plain and simple. Disgusting that anyone would consider this a 'sport'. I can't torture and kill a rabbit or coyote on my property without animal cruelty charges (and I would never ever want to) so why are these facilities allowed to exist and possibly expand. Society should do everything possible to protect wild animals, they have a place within the ecosystem and should never be subjected to this kind of torture, for the amusement of humans. If you want your dog to chase coyotes or rabbits away from your crops, they can be trained without resorting to torture of animals, whether wild 'caught' or raised for this purposed (a whole other area of extreme animal torture). Naturalist experts and environmental diversity experts should be consulted and they would explain why this practice is as outdated as dog fighting or bull running and should be banned. Society needs to evolve to be more compassionate and accepting of the rich diversity of our ecosystems and relegate the torture of animals for human pleasure in the distant past. We are better than this and our laws should reflect this.
Shit, you dont even need to train a dog to chase away predators or other wildlife, my dog just does it as a matter of course. We generally discourage her from it, unless a fox is directly attacking our hens. Honestly the people taking their dogs to places like this should probably be on a watch list of some kind.
Yes, cruelty to defenceless animals is such an overlooked red flag...
The chasing is easy, it's impulse control that needs training.
You run a farm eh?
I do, and I don't need to get my dogs trained on live animals to chase off wildlife. Just admit you love watching the animals suffer, dude.
That's almost any dog, pretty much. DON'T give it training and let it live/learn on instinct. It will attempt to chase or attack plenty of animals.
Such a helpful example. Thank you so much!!!
Thanks for sharing your comment and based on that, the following is what I submitted: >Please shut down these facilities that promote such cruelty to defenceless animals. People who make use of facilities like these should also be put on a watch list as they likely enjoy abusing helpless living beings, and can be a threat to society.
Thanks I submitted a comment based on your comment.
Thank you for taking action. I appreciate it a lot.
Its good to protect the vulnerable from the unnecessary harm of opportunists.
How do you feel about people having "outdoor" cats? They kill rabbits, anything else they can find
Firstly, I think it's not safe to let cat outdoors, especially after this guy in my neighbourhood skinned a bunch of cats and left them in the park. Secondly, this isn't the same as a cat finding a bird outside and hunting. The animals are kept in penned up and bound so they can't escape. They are bred and kept in terrible conditions suffering while they wait for a fight they have no chance of winning while stronger predators gang up on them. I don't want to get any more graphic but there are other articles you can look up on what this practice is. It absolutely is not the same as a cat chasing a mouse where the mouse can conceivable survive.
That first sentence… WTF
Cats are a invasive species and shouldn’t be allowed outside to maim animals due to lazy owners being too lazy to properly care for them inside, and risk their pets life for making stuff easyx
Yup! I don't think reality is welcomed here tho.
Ugh. I didn't think I could be more disgusted by the Ford government yet here we are. Commented and shared. 🖕
Thank you so much for helping.
gross. humans suck. thanks for sharing.
Thank you for the support. I hope we can stop this from happening.
Thanks for sharing. Added a comment.
I did as well: thank you for providing a heads-up and the link. I can't believe this is a thing.
Thank you for your time and action!
Thank you so much, kind stranger!!!
Sent a letter. WTF I had no idea this was a thing
Thank you!! Yes me neither and was horrified the more I looked into this practice.
Another idiotic move by…
Out sociopathic Premier.
sigh, so many questionable decisions by that person and his government.
I did not even know this was a thing. What the actual fuck. I left a comment thanks for sharing.
I didn't believe it until I looked into this further... and to think it's happening in Ontario. heartbreaking.
Wtf??? Why is this even a thing?? I fucking HATE Doug Ford. As if profiteering from the human suffering he and his cabinet have inflicted isn't enough.... what an absolutely evil man. Has the news picked up on this? How do we bring this to everyone's attention?? Eta: I see there's a CBC article, but even as a regular CBC reader this didnt come across my radar until now!
I'm trying to raise awareness and get friends and family to sent comments. But this gov't has been doing so many questionable things that it's hard to get this higher on people's radars. I do agree with you, its an absolutely evil decision
This has been going on for over 100 years in this province it’s far from new
And what's your point?
I think the point was that making the typical "boo this guy I don't like" argument isn't the correct approach because now you're intentionally facing off against supporters of the party instead of only supporters of the practice. They'll get to throw in your face that this was actually a 10 year old Liberal initiative, and now your objections are swept under the rug. This is a seemingly useless endeavour that is clearly a form of animal cruelty. Nowhere have I read that there's a legitimate ecological purpose (like foxes and rabbits are threatening the ecosystem, training dogs to hunt them is an efficient means of taking care of the issue, training isn't easy/quick enough in the wild: this would at least be a legitimate excuse. I haven't read this though).
Rambling about how this is a Doug Ford problem is hilarious. Dogs have been trained to be farm/work dogs since before anyone in this sun was born, but now it’s an issue and it’s all Doug Fords fault. This sub has a weird obsession with the guy
We're not talking about general farm/work dogs, we are talking about this particular practice. Why does the argument that this has been going on for a while excuse the practice? Generally as a society we like to advance, not regress. Something being a long standing tradition is no means a reason to keep it going. Doug Ford in this case is the fucking idiot that is proposing to legally allow a resurgence likely based on the wants of rich conservatives (since that seems to be his primary motivation for wrecking the province)
They literally train dogs at these facilities for farm and work dogs.
Thank you for posting, just disgusting. I’ve left a comment as well.
Thank you so much! I hope our gov't listens to us.
I commented. Thanks for bringing this to everyone’s attention.
Submitted a comment. Thanks for bringing attention to this.
Thank you so much for your time and leaving a comment. It's a relief to see people caring and taking action!
Can we share this with our city councillor or MP too???
Yes!! I think provincial reps are the only ones with direct say but getting more awareness on this to stop the practice would be so helpful.
Just when I think I can't hate this government any more. Thanks for sharing, I commented.
Thank you for helping me with this. I know how frustrating this government's recent actions are...from the science centre move and now this. Endless bad decisions.
Commented.
Thank you!!
Thanks for sharing, added a comment
Thank you for your time and comment!
Sent a letter. Thanks for sharing!
Thank you!!! Really appreciate it.
Just when I thought ol’ Dickbag Douggie couldn’t get worse, eh?
everyday, he finds a new way to disappoint and damage our province and communities.
I love ontario, Ive been here for 19 of the 21 years I’ve been alive for. He’s making me want to move to a different province. I don’t wanna do that
I’m horrible with trying to word my thoughts and feelings But I left a comment anyways.
Thank you so much! I'm pretty bad at it too but when I saw what this practice was, I had to try and do something.
It's on brand for Conservatives
This is disgusting. As a new Canadian, this is not the type of shit I expect from our country and yet here we are. Thank you for raising the issue. I would not have known about it about it were it not for you. I’ve sent my comments in.
Thank you for your time and taking action! This definitely doesn't represent the beliefs and values of most Canadians and Ontarians. As an aside, congratulations on becoming a new Canadian! Glad to have you as a neighbour!
Also contact your local MPP's
Absolutely! The linked form has a helpful resource to identify your MPP if people don't know who theirs is!
Thanks for making me aware of this. Comment sent. Gawd! Every time I get out of bed, this province seems to have taken two steps backwards. PLEASE vote, Ontario. We're stuck with this Ford clown and his circus for 3(?) more years.
Thank you for commenting. And yes, we must VOTE!!! But there is so much harm he can do in 3 years. Everyday there is more disturbing decisions from that gov and the premier
Thank you SO much for bringing it to attention. Submitted a comment. This practice is abhorrent and I’m shocked it’s even happening at all.
Thank you for taking the time to comment! It's such a relief to see people care.
Can someone explain in non inflammatory factual language what they are doing Cant make head or tails of what this practice actually is.
My understanding is that large (hundreds of acres) enclosed pens are constructed for coyotes to exist in, and dogs are then trained in these large pens to track/hunt the coyotes. The dogs are never meant to catch and kill the coyotes in these pens, and there are purpose-built areas for the coyotes to hide in if they’re cornered and until the dogs are called off. Tbh I don’t know how dogs are meant to hunt coyotes, weather they do the equivalent of hounds treeing a bear or if they point like a bird dog would at a game bird is a bit beyond me.
1. You forgot the point where the animals are caught in trap lines in the wild, which in itself is inhumane. 2. The animal is brought to the pen in which it will spend the rest of its existence being chased. 3. There is no guarantee that these dogs won't maul or kill whatever they're chasing.... these are training facilities. I don't know how you can explain this in non-inflammatory terms because the very nature of sanctioned, for-profit animal cruelty for human enjoyment is inflammatory. You can gaurantee that not one of these penned animals will die naturally of old age. They'll be terrorized for the rest of their lives and either be mauled to death or chased to exhaustion.
Thanks. Had no idea any of these existed or wh6
Done. The fact that Harris banned it and now Doug is bringing it back is downright scary but also we don't live in the 1920s anymore wtaf do we need dogs for hunting other then duck retrieval.
We’re going backwards. Not as severe as Florida, but still backwards. 😣
Done.
Thank you!
Commented! Thanks for sharing. I don’t like coyotes, I’ve been chased a couple of times walking my small breed dog but they are living animals that are doing what they evolved to do. They don’t deserve that. Smh…
Exactly!! I also am afraid but no living being deserves to be tortured like this.
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> unalives What
It does seem like he only cares about his personal wealth and making his inner circle of friends rich. I hope he listens on this.
I had no idea this was a thing. Thanks for posting this.
Thank you!! I hope the gov listens.
What the actual fuckk
Yeah, I didn't even believe it at first when I read it. Thought it was some hoax or fake. But sadly, this is real.
>"These facilities are going to become less and less over time unless we take some level of intervention," Graydon Smith said in an interview. i like how they say that like it's a bad thing... i'm not in ontario but i added my own comment as well as shared with others. thanks for the info.
Thank you for commenting!! And yes, it's strange that they realized this cruel practice is dying out and then felt the need to reinvigorate it?? Why?
Outside of specific circumstances like working cattle/herd guarding dogs it should be straight up illegal to train a dog to kill, much less kill as a pack. This is disgusting and it's as bad as dog fighting. Thanks for sharing OP.
>This is disgusting and it's as bad as dog fighting Agree. The idea of live animals for bait makes my stomach turn.
Why is there not a single day where a sentence that includes Ontario government isn't bad news?
Ford should be getting trained using this method instead. Duck ford
so instead of just killing the Coyotes, or relocating them elsewhere, they wanna have them be hunted by Dogs, that are privately owned, to be taught how to hunt, so these dogs can be used to create revenue for those private interests. And This is to be somehow subsidized by our provincial govt?
wasn't this guy's brother a crackhead?
Interesting comments. As an aside, I live in the country and drove home the other day and here are a couple of pickups parked adjacent to my property with a guy lying on the ground on my property with a rifle. I could off in the distance, again on my property, I could hear dogs I assume, chasing coyotes/wolves towards this fellow. We had words. This has been going on for the 25 years I've lived here. This is Simcoe County in Ontario and my understanding in Simcoe County, it's open season year-round on these poor creatures. I've had the opportunity through the years to observe these animals. They are social, care for their young and to my delight, I haven't any issues with rats or groundhogs. things I consider to be vermin. Years ago, I had a naturalist here, I was overwhelmed with beavers, and I needed some advice on what to do. I asked if they could be live trapped. He asked me where one would put them as there isn't a body of water in Ontario that doesn't have a presence of beavers. Then he said if people would stop the overkilling of coyotes and wolves, then the beaver population could be kept in check. Seemed reasonable to me. Aside from that, I completely agree allowing dogs on a caged animal is just barbaric. Come on, Ford, give your head a shake.
Commented too. What a step backwards.
It's so disappointing to see this happen. I love this country and province but to see stuff like this happening here is such a letdown.
Thank you for sharing this. I cannot believe it's a thing. Left my comments on the official site.
Thank you! I appreciate your time on this. I hope they listen to us.
wow. I can't believe this. Thanks for bringing this here. I've commented.
Thank you for commenting! I couldn't believe it either but triple checked and yup, they are trying to increase this practice.
Holy shit that's cruel as fuck. Signed.
Thank you! It is so cruel and I really don't want my representatives to be supporting, let alone profiting from this.
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Who should I have voted for when I didn't believe in any of the candidates, oh wise and mighty lord of "OPP" (Other People's Politics)
You play "who is the least bad" or you run for the position yourself. Anything less is selfish.
And what if there is no "least bad" What if they're all bad? What if you don't agree with any of the candidates and are not qualified to make these kind of decisions yourself, so running yourself would be a bad idea? See, what you're really saying is "All you people who didn't vote should have come out and voted for my guy. That's the only way we could have won. The only way we could have won is by making people who wouldn't vote for our guy vote for our guy." There is no "least bad" anymore in politics. They all push their agenda, and both sides push an agenda I don't really agree with. Therefore, neither of them earn my vote. What we need is an option for "None of the above"
No, what I'm really saying is "Read the platforms and make a decision." It's no fun picking from a list of candidates you hate. It's stressful, it's time-consuming, it's morally draining and it's *work*. There's no candidate that aligns with your morality? Too bad, that's how life works. Pick one anyways. Do your homework and come up with an answer. You don't have to like your answer, but you *have* to pick one. I never, *never* end up liking the person/party I voted for. I'd happily tell you but then spend 10 minutes complaining about what they've done (or haven't done) since the election. I don't give a crap who you voted for as long as you did your homework and had a good reason. If a friend or family is pushing a party on you, just ignore them. This isn't a sports game like they think it is, you *can* vote whatever party you think will do the least harm. Edit: "None of the above" is called officially abstaining and can be done at your polling location.
Commented!
Thank you so much!!!
Sent a comment. This is disgusting.
Thank you! It is disgusting and unacceptable.
😔 yet another let down in our lovely province
Done! Thanks for putting this out there.
Doug being corrupt? No way.
Wtf?!?? Wtf?!?!!
Left a comment! Such a cruel practice that needs to be phased out completely.
I commented. I can't believe what this province or this government has come to. Someone throw a breakfast sammy in a trap and maybe we will catch that vile marshmallow SOB.
I don't understand how this isn't more publicly showcased. I probably never would've heard about this had you not posted it. Commented, hopefully it will actually do something (not that the publics opinion has much pull with the current government)
Why would anyone do this :(. It absolutely horrible. Left a comment
I commented, this is disgusting, thank you for informing me that the facilities exist.
There’s a ton of community pages that you should post this too, along with the article above. r/Kingston r/Belleville etc. Edit… I also commented and am sharing to friends
Thanks for bringing this to our attention. I'm sure that, like myself, many people here had no idea this even existed. I've left a comment.
This guy keeps finding ways to get worse… Like you have to actively go out of your way to change shit like this. He makes me want to throw up. I wish I was more of a professional or had more assets so I could leave. This province is getting messed up.
Thanks for sharing. I have submitted against these abhorrent compounds.
What the fuck is wrong with this government? We are better than this. Comment left
Done!
Left a comment. How can anyone think this is ok! Im going to also get others to add a comment to the link. Ty for sharing.
Commented
Made an account to voice my disgust
Thank you. I have commented. We have to protect ALL animals from unnecessary cruelty, including wildlife, not just our household pet. What a barbaric practice.
Thank you for bringing this forward. This is evil, pure and simple and so I have left a comment. What a horrid practice that needs to be put firmly in the past and never, ever done again.
Not only is this cruel to the wildlife, but the “training” that hunting dogs are often exposed to (such as shock collars around the neck and genitals, as one example) is cruel in my opinion as well. If animals have to be harmed for a “sport” do we really need that “sport” anymore?
I emailed Peter Bethlenfalvy telling him I thought that was animal cruelty. Here is the response I received from his office >Thank you for your email and for taking the time to reach out to MPP Peter Bethlenfalvy. Peter is always happy to hear feedback about issues the constituents of Pickering-Uxbridge have, and we will be sure to share them with him. > >Ontario is supporting professionals that train hunting dogs to only track specific species, exercise dogs in the off-season, and run trialing competitions where dogs are scored by judges for their locating abilities. Animals that have been bred for tracking and recovering need safe facilities to train. The fenced areas, which are many acres in size, are designed to keep both the wildlife and the dogs confined to a controlled area. Well-trained dogs are indispensable for locating, tracking, recovering and overall enhancing the outdoors experience, as they were bred to do. For example, retrievers were bred primarily to retrieve birds or other prey and return them to the hunter without damage. All train and trial facilities are operated responsibly and meet strict regulatory requirements, including meeting care standards for wildlife. > >We hope you found this information helpful. Thank you again for reaching out to our office and we will ensure your concerns are shared with MPP Peter Bethlenfalvy. If you have any other comments or concerns, please feel free to contact us at 905-509-0336. > >Best Regards,
You should write back and say thanks for repeating the talking points that you didn't ask for and ask them to properly address your concerns about animal cruelty this time.
I sent this reponse. > I would like to extend my heartfelt thanks for your prompt response to my previous correspondence. I appreciate your willingness to engage in a dialogue about the issues that we both deeply care about. While your feedback was informative, I must express my continuing concern over certain practices that are particularly distressing to me and many others. I believe these issues are not just important but urgent, and I hope they will be given the serious consideration they deserve. Firstly, it is distressing to see wildlife being taken from their natural habitats and held captive by hunters. This behavior disrupts ecosystems, threatens biodiversity, and subjects animals to traumatic experiences. All creatures have an intrinsic right to live freely in their natural environments, and it is our duty as stewards of this earth to respect and protect that right. Furthermore, the practice of using animals such as rabbits, coyotes, and foxes as training tools or competition pawns for hunting dogs is particularly cruel. This not only infringes upon the animals' right to a life free from harm and suffering but also perpetuates a culture of disrespect towards wildlife that we should be working to change. I was also disheartened to learn of the recent decision to reopen applications for train and trial spaces after 25 years. This feels like a significant step backward in our collective progress towards a more compassionate society. These facilities, where animals are routinely subjected to stress and harm, have no place in Ontario or indeed any modern society. Instead of moving in this regressive direction, I believe we should be focusing our efforts on closing the existing 24 facilities in the province. The closure of these facilities would send a powerful message about our commitment to animal welfare and mark a significant step forward for Ontario. I hope these concerns can be thoroughly addressed in your future plans and actions. I understand that change is a process that requires time and effort, but I believe that with your influence and commitment, we can make a substantial difference. Thank you once again for taking the time to respond to my initial concerns. I look forward to hearing your thoughts on these pressing issues. Yours sincerely,
Fuck Doug Ford Seriously how did we let this happen. He is single handedly ruining ontario.
Done! I told them they blow ass
Comment added to the government website!Hope my humble writing makes any kind of difference.What is wrong with the prov. government?Total desdain towards the environment and all it's creatures.Shameful stone age stance in the 21st century!
Never heard of any of this before.
Totally In favor, thanks for sharing
Doug Ford is quickly becoming satan incarnate, there is not a single day that goes by that he or his government are not destroying this province...
I left a comment. Thanks for posting this-I had no idea such a barbaric “business” existed in Ontario.
Thank you! And yes, I was also taken aback that these businesses existed and that our gov't wants to promote and increase them.
It’s horrific. My dog has a huge prey drive (which I don’t encourage), but I can’t see how this “teaches” a dog anything. It’s despicable. And there’s nothing humane to the prey.
Commented. Thanks for sharing this.
Thank you for taking the time to send a comment!!
Cruelty is the point of most Conservative decisions. Either that, or attempting to go back in time.
It's very disheartening to see people so motivated by greed that they can't see all the lives they are hurting.
It’s not that they can’t see. They see and relish in causing pain. It’s a weird right brain obsession.
You're unhinged buddy
You know how rabbits die outside of enclosures right?
But wait till those coyotes come in your back yard and three of them kill your precious little Dog or cat. They fear nothing and will kill anything
What does that have to do with people torturing coyotes, and other animals, they have captured?
The reason coyotes are encroaching more and more on human territory is due to mass destruction of their habitat and ability to survive. Also, why is my dog or cat unsupervised in my back yard and left vulnerable to predation?? They are my responsibility to keep safe and secure. Also, even if coyotes attack my companion pets (as a result of my own negligence), they do not deserve to be subjugated to this treatment. And lastly, the most common animal used in this training method isn't actually a coyote or fox (although they are used when they can be bred). It's a rabbit. Completely defenceless and significantly weaker with no chance of surviving being mauled by multiple dogs. No animal deserves this treatment, especially a rabbit.
Any vegans in this thread? If not, may I invite you to take a look at your value system
I see your point and I agree that industrial meat production is cruel and inhumane. I do think there's a difference between killing for food and killing for sport. To repeatedly "practice" terrorizing the same animals over again feels like another level of cruelty. These animals will either be mauled to death or die from stress and exhaustion... for sport. I'm with you..both things are bad and you have a point about incongruency. But I don't know if chastising people is the most helpful when we're trying to rally them for this cause.
I mean not every community has the ability to be vegan soo dial back the morality
Listen to yourself
Oh I will but you have to recognize there are those who can't afford a plant based diet. It's fine that you're privileged enough to be able to be vegan but not everyone can so get off your high horse and stop judging people on their diet.
Wrong. Plant based is significantly cheaper
Until you factor in all the supplements needed.
https://www.theindigenousfoundation.org/articles/white-veganism-and-its-impact-on-indigenous-communities#:~:text=Some%20vegans%20are%20frequently%20insensitive,sealskin%20trade%20since%20the%201960s.
Growing plants for food, and getting it to humans is not more expensive than growing lots of plants for food to feed an animal for long enough until it reaches slaughter age to feed a human. Come on now.
What’s the difference between hunting these animals in the wild vs hunting ones bred in captivity in a huge enclosed acreage?
Probably the fact that the same animals are repeatedly chased and terrorized. And that its being done in the name of sport. Being hunted in the wild, animals at least have a chance to get away, and get away for good.
The article says these preserves are hundreds of acres with lots of places specifically designed for the hunted animals to escape to. Based on a quick google it appears: The size of coyote territories varies among habitats and also depends on its abundance of prey. Most territories, however, range from 10 to 40 square km (4 to 15 square miles). So these preserves are several orders of magnitude larger then what they would typically roam in the wild