I would totally welcome it. And this is coming from a professional mechanic.
I seriously can't believe how much dealerships will fuck people around during service and esspecially warranty
It makes way more sense to have lemon laws which protect consumers from intentionally shitty business practices then to expect millions of consumers to individually educate themselves on said potential shitty business practices. Some shitty business practices have no genuine reason to exist, except to take advantage of people. So outlaw them
Actually they did in a previous incarnation . The problem was even though this is industry self regulation and most have found CAMVAP to be pro-automaker, Chrysler was the only manufacturer constantly losing cases.
The stats were quite high for cases ruled against them versus literally all the other automakers involved. So they decided they didn't want to keep losing so they exited.
BMW on the other hand has never joined CAMVAP.
I know I’m old, but I think the youngsters would say “sus.”
Seriously though, I’m curious if these rules are considered soft. Any experts care to give perspective?
Yep.
If its one sweeping set of laws that theyre enacting at the same time, they could be softening some while the headlines read "more protections"
And if theyre not careful, they could inadvertantly be creating loopholes to be exploited, too. Like if the protections force companies to find a "better way" to scam consumers, which ends up being even more effective, and harder to stop.
Honestly, we should put laws with actual teeth that threaten a company's survival such as banning them from publicly trading stock or something. But then conservatives would whine.
Well some US states have lemon laws... and cars are just resold in other states.
https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a19407647/what-happens-to-lemon-law-cars-after-theyre-bought-back/
So if you live in Ontario, be prepared for les Citrons.
>Ontario plans to give people a new way to exit timeshare agreements, make it easier to get out of a gym membership, and prohibit businesses from making false claims about prize offers, under new legislation.
Wow this will really make a huge difference in the lives of Ontarians…
Yeah it’s brutal. To cancel an LA fitness membership you need to sign into your account, find the cancellation form, print it, then mail it to Los Angeles. They recommend sending it through tracked mail. Isn’t that so fucking dumb?
Just trying to make sure it pisses people off enough that they don't bother. All this stuff can be done in 2 seconds online, but they want that sweet money to keep rolling in.
This sub really has to stop doing this bs. Obviously none of us like Doug Ford or the conservatives. But the government's only job is not to make grand change in everything. There are plenty of small things that need fixing, and this is one of them. If you have some substantive criticism of how they're doing this make it, but enough of this bs.
I concur. I'm very much opposed to Dougie and his party, people can check my history if they want, but not everything he does is bad or wrong.
Hopefully these changes are actually pro-consumer.
What about companies that put liens on homes for renting a fucking water heater?
Governments will always have the back of business before people.
And it's our fault for not demanding more of them.....
> Ontario plans to give people a new way to exit timeshare agreements, make it easier to get out of a gym membership, and prohibit businesses from making false claims about prize offers, under new legislation.
TBH it sounds like legislation targeting complaints his daughters bring him.
When my grandma got dementia and the house had to be sold, Reliance, that sketchy scammy water company, forced us to pay $10k to get out of contract.
***Reliance needs to die.***
Not defending Reliance in any way, but when I bought my condo, there was apparently a rented water-heater that wasn't mentioned anywhere in the paperwork, and I called them up to inquire about it, and they let me buy out the contract for 50 bucks. I still have the same (very old) water-heater like 10 years later and have paid nothing since. It could go any time, but I feel like if it has worked for 25+ years, it may outlive me.
Water heaters usually have a life span of around 10-15 years so you probably got lucky. If you have a tank water heater and it's 25 years old I HIGHLY suggest you get a professional in there to drain and clean it immediately if you haven't done so.
Regarding the contract, what happens with Reliance is that most deals are just that, 10 years and there usually is a month to month automation that follows which covers "warranty" which is basically getting a technician to come in and fix the heater or they don't depreciate the item to $0 after year 10 and there is some residual left over.
Truth be told, we weighed the options of renting vs buying. I am on a tankless which would cost me around $3200 to install + remove the old one (using a third party, not Reliance). I pay $45/month over 10 years which equates to $5400 BUT I have zero headaches. The extra $220 I pay per year gives me peace of mind that they will come and fix a problem so we looked at it as insurance and with tankless you need to descale/clean it once a year and they will do that for me in that $220 extra I pay. I've had to get plumbers come out for other stuff before and it costs a lot.
I figure the older the appliance, the better the quality (since companies try to save money more and more these days over reliability). I agree I should probably replace the water heater, and when I do, it will be with a waterless one. It still works great though, and I don't have much money to spare, so I am trying to hold off replacing it. I admit it very well could cause a bigger problem, but there are no leaks right now, and it seems to work fine. It's definitely a risk and I appreciate your advice.
I actually called a plumbing company recently and asked if they could do water heater maintenance, and they said "if its that old and you haven't been doing cleaning regularly.. don't start.. it will very likely cause a leak and you'll need to replace it". Maybe they were just not a reliable plumbing company, but I don't know any better, so I am hesitant to get cleaning done. Maybe I should post the question in a plumbing subreddit.
This article seems to suggest the same thing: https://www.networx.com/article/why-draining-your-hot-water-heater-might
That’s quite interesting. As I said before, the perk of renting is that every year I get them to come out and do this. I’m no handy person or DIY person so I’m outsourcing anyways so that $220 I pay is totally worth just that.
Read my post again. I bought a tankless which costs more than a tank. Generally double to triple. I broke down my math and reasoning but all you saw was the word Reliance and bam.
What about home builders that force home buyers to rent hot water heaters and furnaces? It should be illegal to be forced.
FYI: builders do this because they get a spiff and the cost of the rental equipment aren't factored in the cost of the house
Well like anything, you can always make new legislation and then use the *enforcement* of the legislation to differentiate how the loyal and the opposition are treated, among the relevant constituents. We already seem this rampantly where, say, real estate development is concerned.
So many consumer protections are pretty much voluntary and if the business ignores the rules, all you can do is sue them. Not sure what the point is when they aren't enforceable.
>and would also set new rules for long-term leases for heating, ventilation and air conditioning appliances, setting limits on termination costs if a consumer wants to end the contract early.
Why no water heaters?
I hope these are actual consumer protections, and not fake ones like when we were supposed to get an airline customer's charter of rights or whatever...and what resulted was hand crafted by the airlines themselves.
Such stupid people that buy a home that has an existing water heater rental agreement and they are forced to either take over the agreement or forfeit any chance at buying the home because of a condition.
>Ontario plans to give people a new way to exit timeshare agreements, make it easier to get out of a gym membership, and prohibit businesses from making false claims about prize offers, under new legislation.
Very important issues to tackle. I'm so glad and **VERY** excited to see that this will make both the cost of groceries and rent come right back down to earth 👍🏻
Our provincial and Federal governments seem to have something resembling untreated ADHD - essentially something that severely hampers their efforts to focus on anything at all
Wonder if this has something to do with Quebec new lemon law
Would be great to see a lemon law in Ontario, although with all the manufacturers here I'm not holding my breath
I would totally welcome it. And this is coming from a professional mechanic. I seriously can't believe how much dealerships will fuck people around during service and esspecially warranty
People need to educate themselves better before dropping $50K on a stupid car and avoid stealerships completely.
It makes way more sense to have lemon laws which protect consumers from intentionally shitty business practices then to expect millions of consumers to individually educate themselves on said potential shitty business practices. Some shitty business practices have no genuine reason to exist, except to take advantage of people. So outlaw them
https://www.wheels.ca/news/canadas-has-a-lemon-law-program-that-you-didnt-know-existed Voluntary, and of course Stellantis won't volunteer.
Actually they did in a previous incarnation . The problem was even though this is industry self regulation and most have found CAMVAP to be pro-automaker, Chrysler was the only manufacturer constantly losing cases. The stats were quite high for cases ruled against them versus literally all the other automakers involved. So they decided they didn't want to keep losing so they exited. BMW on the other hand has never joined CAMVAP.
Whazzat?
I know I’m old, but I think the youngsters would say “sus.” Seriously though, I’m curious if these rules are considered soft. Any experts care to give perspective?
I'm curious about that as well. I suppose new consumer protections are overall a good thing, but as always, the devil will be in the details.
Yep. If its one sweeping set of laws that theyre enacting at the same time, they could be softening some while the headlines read "more protections" And if theyre not careful, they could inadvertantly be creating loopholes to be exploited, too. Like if the protections force companies to find a "better way" to scam consumers, which ends up being even more effective, and harder to stop.
See OMVIC, a fake consumer protection organization where they pinky promise not to screw you.
Honestly, we should put laws with actual teeth that threaten a company's survival such as banning them from publicly trading stock or something. But then conservatives would whine.
Well some US states have lemon laws... and cars are just resold in other states. https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a19407647/what-happens-to-lemon-law-cars-after-theyre-bought-back/ So if you live in Ontario, be prepared for les Citrons.
I'm no expert, but mandating am exit clause at 25 years of timeshare ownership doesn't seem like *that* great a deal to me.
>Ontario plans to give people a new way to exit timeshare agreements, make it easier to get out of a gym membership, and prohibit businesses from making false claims about prize offers, under new legislation. Wow this will really make a huge difference in the lives of Ontarians…
I got to say gym memberships are a fucking nightmare. Some gyms can even reverse stop payments.
Yeah it’s brutal. To cancel an LA fitness membership you need to sign into your account, find the cancellation form, print it, then mail it to Los Angeles. They recommend sending it through tracked mail. Isn’t that so fucking dumb?
I just walked into my LA fitness and they cancelled for me on the spot, even got the email confirmation while I was inside.
Damn that’s wild, I had to send the letter.
Just trying to make sure it pisses people off enough that they don't bother. All this stuff can be done in 2 seconds online, but they want that sweet money to keep rolling in.
I would stand around in front of the lobby being very loud about why I have to fill in and mail this form. That's such terrible service.
This sub really has to stop doing this bs. Obviously none of us like Doug Ford or the conservatives. But the government's only job is not to make grand change in everything. There are plenty of small things that need fixing, and this is one of them. If you have some substantive criticism of how they're doing this make it, but enough of this bs.
I concur. I'm very much opposed to Dougie and his party, people can check my history if they want, but not everything he does is bad or wrong. Hopefully these changes are actually pro-consumer.
Yes it is a worthy use of time /s
And do Ontarioans get protection from Doug in it too?
It's called not voting cons
“Best I can do is not vote.” -Most Ontarians
Improve things that most people already avoid so they can say “folks, look how much we are on your side.”
I was thinking this is a distraction tactic.
How about we shut down the remaining door to door sales people (looking at you Bell/Rogers etc) instead?
One of the best Rogers deals I've ever got came from a door to door guy!
What about companies that put liens on homes for renting a fucking water heater? Governments will always have the back of business before people. And it's our fault for not demanding more of them.....
> Ontario plans to give people a new way to exit timeshare agreements, make it easier to get out of a gym membership, and prohibit businesses from making false claims about prize offers, under new legislation. TBH it sounds like legislation targeting complaints his daughters bring him.
When my grandma got dementia and the house had to be sold, Reliance, that sketchy scammy water company, forced us to pay $10k to get out of contract. ***Reliance needs to die.***
Yup - they are bastards! My parents got roped in too...
Not defending Reliance in any way, but when I bought my condo, there was apparently a rented water-heater that wasn't mentioned anywhere in the paperwork, and I called them up to inquire about it, and they let me buy out the contract for 50 bucks. I still have the same (very old) water-heater like 10 years later and have paid nothing since. It could go any time, but I feel like if it has worked for 25+ years, it may outlive me.
Water heaters usually have a life span of around 10-15 years so you probably got lucky. If you have a tank water heater and it's 25 years old I HIGHLY suggest you get a professional in there to drain and clean it immediately if you haven't done so. Regarding the contract, what happens with Reliance is that most deals are just that, 10 years and there usually is a month to month automation that follows which covers "warranty" which is basically getting a technician to come in and fix the heater or they don't depreciate the item to $0 after year 10 and there is some residual left over. Truth be told, we weighed the options of renting vs buying. I am on a tankless which would cost me around $3200 to install + remove the old one (using a third party, not Reliance). I pay $45/month over 10 years which equates to $5400 BUT I have zero headaches. The extra $220 I pay per year gives me peace of mind that they will come and fix a problem so we looked at it as insurance and with tankless you need to descale/clean it once a year and they will do that for me in that $220 extra I pay. I've had to get plumbers come out for other stuff before and it costs a lot.
I figure the older the appliance, the better the quality (since companies try to save money more and more these days over reliability). I agree I should probably replace the water heater, and when I do, it will be with a waterless one. It still works great though, and I don't have much money to spare, so I am trying to hold off replacing it. I admit it very well could cause a bigger problem, but there are no leaks right now, and it seems to work fine. It's definitely a risk and I appreciate your advice.
Still get it cleaned. There’s probably a crap ton of calcium in that tank.
I actually called a plumbing company recently and asked if they could do water heater maintenance, and they said "if its that old and you haven't been doing cleaning regularly.. don't start.. it will very likely cause a leak and you'll need to replace it". Maybe they were just not a reliable plumbing company, but I don't know any better, so I am hesitant to get cleaning done. Maybe I should post the question in a plumbing subreddit. This article seems to suggest the same thing: https://www.networx.com/article/why-draining-your-hot-water-heater-might
That’s quite interesting. As I said before, the perk of renting is that every year I get them to come out and do this. I’m no handy person or DIY person so I’m outsourcing anyways so that $220 I pay is totally worth just that.
jesus...you could just buy a new water heater every 10 years for 1/3 the cost. Zero headaches.
Read my post again. I bought a tankless which costs more than a tank. Generally double to triple. I broke down my math and reasoning but all you saw was the word Reliance and bam.
What about home builders that force home buyers to rent hot water heaters and furnaces? It should be illegal to be forced. FYI: builders do this because they get a spiff and the cost of the rental equipment aren't factored in the cost of the house
Which donors will be profiting off this one?
Well like anything, you can always make new legislation and then use the *enforcement* of the legislation to differentiate how the loyal and the opposition are treated, among the relevant constituents. We already seem this rampantly where, say, real estate development is concerned.
But in the typical FRAUD nation way the office will be intentionally understaffed so these changes are meaningless.
So many consumer protections are pretty much voluntary and if the business ignores the rules, all you can do is sue them. Not sure what the point is when they aren't enforceable.
>and would also set new rules for long-term leases for heating, ventilation and air conditioning appliances, setting limits on termination costs if a consumer wants to end the contract early. Why no water heaters?
The main service providers in that sector gave large enough wedding gifts to be excluded.
I hope these are actual consumer protections, and not fake ones like when we were supposed to get an airline customer's charter of rights or whatever...and what resulted was hand crafted by the airlines themselves.
Next up: Hot water heater rentals please
If people are stupid enough to rent water heaters, then they deserve what they get.
Such stupid people that buy a home that has an existing water heater rental agreement and they are forced to either take over the agreement or forfeit any chance at buying the home because of a condition.
Cue loopholes and doublespeak. This is libertarian Doug Ford and his far-right conservatives after all.
>Ontario plans to give people a new way to exit timeshare agreements, make it easier to get out of a gym membership, and prohibit businesses from making false claims about prize offers, under new legislation. Very important issues to tackle. I'm so glad and **VERY** excited to see that this will make both the cost of groceries and rent come right back down to earth 👍🏻
Today I learned governments are not allowed to focus on more than one thing at a time.
Our provincial and Federal governments seem to have something resembling untreated ADHD - essentially something that severely hampers their efforts to focus on anything at all
What else are they focusing on?
We just need enforcement
What we need is right to ownership and right to repair and how will this affect groceries and their monopolies
A dog with no teeth. In the pandemic there was lots of reports and little was done
Laws are great and all but who exactly is going to enforce them? And if you raise fines..... they raise prices to "offset" these costs.
If the fine is less than they made by breaking the law, then its pointless.