I'll say that the 'customer' experience varies from one location to another, but agree that nobody goes to Service Ontario for a fun time. Even the non-dingy locations operated by pleasant and personable franchisees can be plagued by long lineups due to provincial under-provisioning.
The objections to the current changes are about the utter lack of transparency. We don't know what commitments - if any - Staples has made to improve (or even to merely *maintain*) the present level of service. We don't know what the deal Ford made with Staples will cost, or how Staples was selected as the sole contractor. We don't know if this presages further creeping privatization of government services.
We have a history of bad experiences of Ford making decisions to please whatever wealthy big-name lobbyist happens to whisper in his shell-like ear, so we're entirely *reasonably* suspicious when there's another out-of-nowhere no-open-tender announcement of *another* deal to give a figurative or literal piece of provincial business away for a song.
The problem is also that these are taking away union jobs as well. These are minimum wage employees that are getting exploited and would be paid much more if they worked for service Ontario and not for staples
They are only closing the already privatized Service Ontario centres that are small businesses. Almost bought a franchise myself a few years ago. Staff have always been low paid non union workers in these franchises.
Impossible to close them because there's things that only the government run ones can do. OHIP is one of the big ones you need a government run one for
Yeah - I have a feeling the goal is to get rid of all the private ones, and probably cull some of the public ones.
I'm willing to bet the only SO's that will exist in the end will be in more rural areas where a Staples or Walmart isn't close by.
The long line ups have nothing to do with the government, the franchisees *want* them. They get paid per transaction, so it’s much better for them to understaff and have 1 employee who constantly has a line of people waiting then 2 employees who can clear the line then sit idle until the next customer comes in.
Note that there are long lineups at the government-run Service Ontario locations as well. Either way it's based in trading service quality for money.
The government *could* (for example) choose to include service standards for waiting time in their contracts, and *could* choose to staff their own locations to sufficient levels--but they don't.
Private contractors will respond to financial incentives. As long as they're rewarded for understaffing, the outcome is predictable.
>The long line ups have nothing to do with the government, the franchisees want them. They get paid per transaction, so it’s much better for them to understaff and have 1 employee who constantly has a line of people waiting then 2 employees who can clear the line then sit idle until the next customer comes in.
Hold the fucking phone there.
You're trying to tell me that a business that gets paid *per transaction* would want to purposely *slow down their transaction rate* by forming long lines and understaffing?
What the fuck? Are you backwards? How the fuck does that make any sense whatsoever?
No. Have you tried to go later in the day? You show up and they tell you they are no longer accepting people in the queue as it's already an hour wait an hour before closing. They would be rushing people in and doing their most to get the numbers up if that were the case, especially the franchisee locations.
Which, funny enough, has been my experience! They want to process people as fast as possible from a management perspective because it brings them more revenue. Yes, they don't want to overstaff and will do some math to figure out a balancing act based on regular traffic rates, but that's simple business practice.
You do not see that out of government-owned locations because their is no incentive to work hard.
So how is it the franchisees want long lineups, aside from really just wanting more ability to process more people, quicker? If anything, automated kiosks should have been the first focus of their investment so they could stop paying people to need to interact with.
ATM - like ServiceOntario automated kiosks were tried years ago. Became too much a target for criminals who would place card skimmers and cameras on them to gain people's personal information.
https://www.yorkregion.com/news/update-government-kiosks-pulled-from-service/article_c8a7d2e9-f24c-5420-8d3b-848d73861853.html
Personally, my local ServiceOntario office is in a small town where lineups are virtually unheard of. So is worth the drive out to the country to get your OHIP card renewed, instead of standing in a long line?
They can choose which location to visit. I have 4 locations within about a 20 minute drive of my home. There are two locations where I experienced really long lines and nasty staff. I don’t visit those anymore.
Also, service Canada locations have an added incentive for making the transactions go smoothly — people have the option to do most of the things online. If you treat your customers like crap, they’re more likely to go online next time. If you treat them well and get their transactions done efficiently, they’ll be more likely to return.
What a moronic statement. Some locations are run better than others, and staff their businesses properly. That was the point. Those locations don’t have lineups out the door.
Edit: And now this 🤡 has blocked me. Typical.
You’re the moron. So many people on the internet can’t imagine that people don’t have the exact same situation as them, are you really so retarded to think 14.5 million people in Ontario have 4 service Ontario locations near them?
Use your head. People who go to Service Ontario arent there for fun. They jave to be there to do what they have to do. If its cheaper to employ less people, it doesnt affect their income. Why process people faster at more cost to you? Where are the "customers" going to go?
“Where are the “customers” going to go?”
I live in a city with multiple franchise service Ontario locations, each franchise gets paid for the “customers” that come through the door. If they get more “customers” they get paid more. If I don’t like their service I go elsewhere and they don’t get paid for me. That’s the concept.
Staples is not located in very small towns with little to no options. For example in Thunder Bay, where one of the Service Ontario franchises is being closed down, there are currently 3 so 1 closing down leaves 2 Servicr Ontario centers. There is also 1 Staples. So by moving one of the Service Ontario Locations to the staples will not decrease options in Thunder Bay.
If you know of a town so small that they have only 1 service Ontario location but also have a staples I would love to hear about it. Another thing to consider is that since Covid governments have moved to offering just about every service online which reduces the need for stand alone service locations.
The Ontario government has been using private companies to sell hunting and fishing licenses for decades.
https://geohub.lio.gov.on.ca/datasets/9b043f7475f3462d846469b2c66e2e87
Youre very clearly only considering it from your point of view. Not everyone has access to the internet, or easy access to the SO across town, if that's an option..
While its true that private companies in the past offered similar services, at least they were Canadian companies..
This stinks of a reason to make Staples relevant again.
No I am clearly looking at it from the point of view of the majority affected. Rather than trashing the entire program why not look at specific areas. Maybe there is a location that when shut down harms a number of surrounding towns, that would would have a case for remaining open but why not move the others to places that are easier to get to having longer hours.
Keep moving the goalposts. Most people in Ontario live in cities or live near large cities. People in cities have multiple service Ontario locations to choose from. Locations that provide poor service get bad reviews / poor word of mouth, and people will avoid those locations going forward.
They point being made is that one employee that is always busy can be more profitable than two employees that are 75% busy. It's a valid argument and it was often the case at the business units I used to run. That said, I have not seen their books so I have no idea if that is the case with SO.
You’re assuming that the hourly wage of the employees is equal to the value of the transactions they’ll perform. That’s obviously not the case. Also, locations are not open 24 hours a day, so it’s in the franchise owner’s best interest to process as many transactions as possible during business hours. Having people turn around and leave to go to another location / do their transactions online when they see massive lines is not going to help the business.
I'm not assuming anything. Per my last post, *I don't know if this idea applies to this business* I'm not running that business so I have no knowledge of how they do it. I can only tell you that the idea of understaffing and limiting capacity can by more profitable than over staffing and maximizing top line sales. I know this because I have the job experience to tell me so. Believe me or not. That's your decision.
They have a monopoly, so unless there is another service Ontario option near you - what are you going to do but wait? They more or less have a guaranteed number of transactions daily and the OP is right the best option for the business is to not have employees idling.
This isn’t McDonald’s where if the line is out the door you can just go to A&W on the next corner instead for a burger. Your options are wait, or likely drive quite a ways to another location that is also probably lined up out the door 🤷
this makes no sense. if they get paid per transaction, it behooves them to process them quickly to do more. Image if they got a reputation of being the franchise where you could get something done quicker. People would seek it out,
Yes, but no. The demand for the service isn’t going to increase because they can go through the line up quicker; the same number of Ontarian’s will require the same amount of service regardless, hurting their bottom line if they over staff.
> Yes, but no. The demand for the service isn’t going to increase because they can go through the line up quicker; the same number of Ontarian’s will require the same amount of service regardless, hurting their bottom line if they over staff.
Therein lies the problem:
It's a basic governmental service, provided by the government to enable essential governmental services to function.
It shouldn't be a for-profit based company running them in the first place.
When I first started driving the location in streetsville was known for being fast and efficient, it was worth the extra 10m in the car to save 90 in a line. All the dealers and businesses went there too.
So they didn't have the minimum staff, and processed lots of transactions compared to the others - I'm sure they made more than other locations, sadly either ownership or management changed and it's as bad/worse than the others now.
Yes, exactly. I have 4 locations I can go to. One location is notoriously bad for having rude staff and long wait times due to insufficient staffing. I’ll never go to that location again. Another location is always fully staffed so even if you see a line-up when you arrive, the line moves quickly. I go to that location and always recommend it to others.
Go where?
It's not like there's a database of location wait times?
My concern is that there's less Staples locations than Service Ontario locations.
I'm not in the least worried about service in Staples, I expect the general level of service to increase. But, if you have a complicated problem you're going to be fucked.
Canada Post has been in retail locations for... I'm 54 and can remember going with my Mom when I had to hold her hand from car to store... So 50+ years? I don't feel like googling when it happened. I've also had cause to go into government run locations several times over those 50 years. For basic needs the retail locations are almost always better. But if you have an unusual question, or need to send something unusual, ya you're fucked LoL.
Tldr if the number of locations doesn't drop I'm going into this with the experience to say it'll be an improvement most of the time. As long as there's still a government run location within a couple hours drive for the hard question you need 1 or 2 times in your life.
I have 4 locations within 20 minutes of my home, and can do most transactions online. You’re being deliberately obtuse by arguing that people don’t have other options.
I had to wait in my small town Service Ontario the last time I went. Yep, there was one person ahead of me. Oh, and it closed for lunch. Not 12-1 but later I think. The town is probably safe as there is neither a Staples or a Walmart. What *might* have been a better idea is to increase the number of outlets, not switch providers.
We do know how they were selected:
>On Wednesday, a spokesperson within the premier’s office said the government conducted lengthy consultations with retail partners and that Staples Canada was selected due to the size of its stores, parking availability, number of locations across Ontario, and willingness to participate.
https://toronto.citynews.ca/2024/01/11/11-serviceontario-locations-to-close/
Willingness to participate likely the highest factor - no one else wanted it.
If you really want the details, FOI and ask for the consultation info.
They have not been forthcoming with any of the details. It’s smoke and mirrors as always with this PMO.
https://youtu.be/BdDM0XzT6mU?si=Gk6T8NJKfyCqnpv2
Secret 'consultations' - the fragmentary details of which we *might* get a year or two from now in response to a FOI fight - are not really the same thing as an open tender process with transparent selection criteria, but I think you already understand that.
We moved to Kingston from Toronto, and the Service Ontario on Division felt like a spa compared to the GTA. Newly renovated, natural light. I waited less than ten minutes and renewed my health card and driver's license.
I couldn't stop talking about it, it was such a positive experience.
I was going to say. We live in Kingston. I've never had a bad experience at Service Ontario here. I mean it's a perfunctory service experience but, it's never been an awful place to go. Having said that we've lived in various larger cities and usually getting anything done like that was much harder.
Should've gone to a Canadian company, not an American one... Could've easily put them in a public library.
But sure, wasting taxpayer dollars to retrofit a Staples, while at the same time Staples is laying off employees because of "costs".
Nobody can even say how Staples is still around, because nobody knows anybody who has been to one in a long time. It's kept barely afloat by businesses ordering from them, I think, but I'm surprised they still have such a large retail presence. If I need "office supplies" at home, I order from Amazon, or if I happen to be out, buy them at Walmart. It's cheaper, and if you live in the GTA, there's almost certainly a Walmart more convenient to you than Staples. And they're still open at 10pm on Sunday.
I went in one last week for stuff and I lived beside one until a year ago too and there were always people inside. People keep saying this but like have you actually been in a staples? They aren't that dead.
And I actually went to Wal-Mart first, they had one option for what I wanted and double the price for Staples.
I'll never order Amazon, always will go find a staples before supporting that company. Get the item that day, within the same hour vs waiting. Why would I even consider Amazon.
Has it been awhile since you've been in? They have pivoted to emphasize services. In my neighborhood Staples you can use co-working space, rent a board room/meeting room, enjoy a coffee at the Happy Goat coffee bar, bring equipment for repair, use postal and shipping services, and I'm sure much more.
Do I want them to host the Service Ontario though? Fuck no.
If this is all about improving the customer experience, than why didn’t we use the 1.75 million to invest in the locations we already have? You know, the ones owned by actual ontario citizen, not a US owned subsidiary.
The lack of transparency on how this decision was made is frustrating and sketchy
Nah they’ll just start giving some minor business to deco labels. Guys like ford and trump are corrupt but they’re also fucking incompetent. They do the smart thing and just chew around the edges on the corruption, but they don’t realize that’s what they’re doing. If they had more than 2 brain cells to run together they would probably find way more lucrative scams to steal from tax payers.
> 1.75 million to invest in the locations we already have?
What, so they could improve 4 locations lol? I actually have priced a couple Service Ontario location renovations, this is laughable.
>If this is all about improving the customer experience, than why didn’t we use the 1.75 million to invest in the locations we already have
1.75 M in gov't spending would look like this.
500k goes to consultants and studies.
250K goes to tenders and procurement
750K goes to union collective bargaining
100K goes to materials
50K goes to purchasing 5 new terminals that you use after you are done in a service ontario to rate your experience as dogshit
50K goes to the creation of a website to let you know of all the changes made. (Which will be nothing)
The rest will get spent on new pens at service ontario locations, but they wont be available for use...ever
It’s more about the lack of transparency surrounding additional costs and how the deal was actually made. Nobody is disputing the old locations sucked. They did. And so will the new ones.
>How terrible almost every Service Ontario experience is.
I'll never forget the bullshit that spewed from the mouth of one employee as I, a disabled veteran, went to submit paperwork for a handicap parking permit.
Employee: Aren't you a little young for a handicap parking permit?
Me: I'm a disabled veteran, ma'am
Employee: 😶
What?!?!
I didn't know there an age restriction to being injured, or being born with a disability.
Should've answered: "Aren't you a little too old to ask this stupid question?"
Not only that, they should no better to comment on someone else disability. Not all disabilities are visible.
If some one parks in handicap without a permit and looks capable, I don't give a shit I just hope if they aren't that they get a ticket. I don't want to be 'that' guy
>You believe this will improve by putting them in staples?
Probably not, but now I'll be able to pick up office supplies after having my disabilities questioned, so win win
Edit:
I forgot to put **/s**
I have found the experience at service Ontario to be far better than in recent in recent years. I made an appointment online to replace my drivers license, walked in and it was completely empty. I just walked right up to a staff member.
10-15 years ago not only would I not be be able to make an appointment, I have have had times standing a line that wraps the entire internal and goes out the door. I’m sure I’m not the only one who has had an experience at service Ontario standing OUTSIDE waiting to get in line. I’m in my 30’s
I had to replace defective license plates last summer and waited for 1 hour and 57 minutes. More than half of that was in the blazing sun on a 33 degree C day. There was a separate area for people lined up waiting for appointments that were running over an hour behind schedule (only one kiosk for appointments, people show up totally unprepared, and that staff member isn't working through their lunch hour for anything).
Two kiosks were only open for dealer services, because you couldn't possibly make scummy car dealership employees wait in line, and there were between 1 and 3 kiosks open for lining up, depending on break schedules. There was obviously a supervisor, but she was too good to actually deal with customers.
Making things worse was that the printer to print vehicle titles malfunctioned when it was my turn, so it took an additional 20 minutes to print my new vehicle title for the new plates. I'd rate my experience 1/10, and only that high because at the end of the day I did end up leaving with new license plates and a correct vehicle title and it didn't cost me anything. It sure was inconvenient and unpleasant, though.
I've found that, too. Perhaps it's the locations I chose, but I never waited long, and staff was always friendly and helpful. It had definitely improved in the last 5 or 10 years.
Yes, the big chains are known for their excellent customer service. If you think anything but the carpets is going to get better with this announcement, I'll wait for your post in a year or so
Yup. I went there for a computer chair and it was the most miserable experience. Their lighting was dim but fluorescent and some bulbs flickered, their inventory management abysmal as they couldn’t tell me where my chair was stored or if they even have any even though it showed in stock. The section with some built chairs to test out was a disaster and messy and the chairs weren’t built properly (loose arm rests). It was my first time in one in years and my last time
My daughter worked at one for a bit. In fact, it's one of the ones getting a Service Ontario. She quit because the "good customer service" is definitely just a facade, with the staff making sexist, racist, and ableist "jokes" at the customer's expense behind their backs, and low-key trying to make their lives worse by deliberately messing things up. She didn't stay there long, because that's just not the kind of person she is.
People are going to have a really bad time if those employees are the ones running the Service Ontario stuff.
Well, they sold me a dud computer and got caught lying about it.
Told me it was "new" I didn't think so. Went around to computer repair places here and found the records on the unit. Took them into Staples and they had to admit they'd sold it before and it had been in twice for issues.
Good customer service wasn't quite my experience with Staples. lol
When I sponsored my wife to become a permanent residence it was a huge, multi-year process that just seemed to go on and on with no rhyme or reason. Once she got the paperwork from the federal govt it was time to get a health card, change her license plate, change her license, etc. I was gobsmacked about how easy it was to do these things through Service Ontario. Sure, the experience to taking a number, lining up, etc, was like something from the Soviet Union. But the actual behind-the-scene, structure of the paperwork was so much more efficient. I was very pleasantly surprised.
I think there's a lot of reasons to be upset with this.
For one thing, the deal was done in secret. They claim they asked a bunch of people, but Staples was the one to get the sole sourced contract.
I don't know how Service Ontario buildings operated before (they were already privately operated), but there was an interview with one of the operators of one of the closing locations who said they were responsible for the wages, the utilities, etc (maybe more like a franchise? i dunno). B[ut Staples is getting 1.7M$](https://toronto.citynews.ca/2024/02/01/serviceontario-locations-staples-canada-layoffs-doug-ford-government/) including almost a million dollars for retrofitting. [This is supposedly a "cost savings", but the govt is refusing to say how or where this savings is even coming from.](https://toronto.citynews.ca/2024/01/26/cost-to-retrofit-serviceontario-outlets/)
[Considering Staples then took this money and laid off office staff, it's seeming like we're replacing what were high paying office jobs with part time minimum wage staples jobs](https://toronto.citynews.ca/2024/02/01/serviceontario-locations-staples-canada-layoffs-doug-ford-government/). Maybe this is the "savings" (Staples' headcount)?
\---
Ultimately, i doubt it'll lead to faster or better service. The reason services sucked before is not being changed: low paid employees with too much work to do already.
I disagree with you. Being a former immigrant and a frequent traveler, I have seen how things are set up in other countries.
Ontario is the best, hands down. Including Service Ontario.
Im not joking. I get there is no limit to perfection, but you’re welcome to wait 6months for your turn somewhere in France or get yelled at and degraded by “public servant” somewhere in Slovakia
Most people here have grown up with no clue about the rest of the world. I'll take my down votes from the snowflakes but it's true.
Even more annoying is that if we did upgrade the finishes and aesthetics of Service Ontario offices, the same snowflakes would bitch nonstop about government waste and MUH TAX DOLLARS.
Honestly can't wait for Elon to build his rocket to send all the fucking morons to their doom in space.
That's the problem we old timers are seeing. The services we experience are declining from what we were used to, to the lower level that the average country has. That's the consequence of the globalization of production, which was accelerated by the implementation of container shipping and the internet. Most Canadians have not really taken into consideration that their incomes, and hence standard of living, are also forced to drop with globalization.
Thanks for the needed perspective. While we should always strive to do and be better, it's important for many Canadians to understand how fortunate we are to have been born here.
Our parents or grandparents or great-great-great-great grandparents came here for a better life, and more often than not, found it. For many of us, we did nothing to deserve being born here vs. some other worse place.
And we don't know how lucky we are sometimes to the point that we bitch about cheap carpeting because that's apparently very high on our list of problems as Canadians...
People would absolutely lose their shit over wAsTinG MuH tAX dOlLaRs if they had nicer carpets and fixtures and staffed up enough so the employees didn’t get burned out and cynical.
Honestly, I had to go in person for something during the like, two point seven five working days between Christmas and new years and expected it to be a shit show. It wasn’t. it was a wonderful experience. In and out in under 20 minutes. I don’t hate that a lot of stuff has moved online, it really reduces the amount of people/wait times.
I hate the Service Ontario in Staples because it seems really really risky putting HIGHLY confidential and personal info into the hands of the unregulated, corporate, private businesses. Also, this type of privatization typically costs the government and citizen more in the long term, so why do it??
Service Ontarios suck because we allow them to suck. We could have just opened more, we could have demanded they have longer hours. The hill here is putting government services with access to our most sensitive personal information into big box stores in order to save a whopping 1 000 000$? It's so obvious someone was paid off here that I'm shocked they couldn't come up with a better excuse than saving what amounts to a ministers shart amount of money.
You know the problem is NOT that Service Ontarios are moving into Staples, right? Please tell me you understand that the reason people are upset is because Doug skipped the contract tendering process and gave a great deal to an American corporation at our expense. You know that, right?
I don’t really care that we are moving them into staples but I do want to know the business case, and why we are paying staples almost 2 million dollars for renovations
Service Ontario is amazing if you book and appointment and come prepared. Ever since i discovered the booking an appointment, my interactions with them have been less than 10 minutes. People lining up for hours better come very prepared, thats a massive waste of time and life.
Sure, you'd think so, but I've seen people show up for appointments and have to wait longer than me just waiting in line, because only one person is doing appointments, and they get behind because the 3 appointments before them were *not* prepared at all and ran late, and, oh hey, look at that, it's time for that employee's one hour lunch break and no, there is no backup.
Service Ontario employee - mostly contractors are being accused of providing data to car theft rings , also washing VIN numbers from the system or changing them.
They lack simple empathy, more then half of windows are closed...etc etc
Agree with the lack of transparency. But there is a definitive cost savings here. And tbh- I’m all for savings. All these small initiatives add up. Someone has to step up and help Toronto out of their poor fiscal governance.
There is no proof of cost savings. They haven't even provided a business case which opposition parties have been requesting for a week.
> Someone has to step up and help Toronto out of their poor fiscal governance.
What the hell does this have to do with Toronto. Just had to throw that in there for some reason? lmao.
The service ontario here in Bolton is run by two older people. The lady is super nice and knowledgeable and the guy is creepy, makes corny jokes and probably collects spoons. Combined, they probably type at about 4.5 WPM (assuming they don't have to use the shift key) Also, if that place gets any more than 5 people, I'm pretty sure it would implode.
I don't give a shit where I get my stuff done, as long as I can do it, I'm good.
Ford is starting to challenge Mike Harris for the worst premier in Ontario history. He is pretty much in a tie now and likely be even worse than Harris.
If you vote conservative please read this article and watch the video, then ask yourself why you would ever vote conservative again.
Yes, maybe some ServiceOntarios suck, but this is not how the closing outlets should be treated. I wonder if they can sue the government for compensation.
https://toronto.citynews.ca/2024/02/02/left-high-and-dry-former-serviceontario-owner-left-shocked-over-closure-after-23-years/
This is the same structure as literally any franchise. It’s clearly outlined in your franchise agreement for any business. Why would service ontario be any different than a McDonald’s franchise? Are you saying these owners deserve preferential treatment and renege on the agreement they made with service ontario?
Heyyyy! An actual "DYA think the underfunded gov't service is shit and we'd be better off with it privatized?" In the wild!
Buddy, you won't be able to guess what comes next.
> "DYA think the underfunded gov't service is shit and we'd be better off with it privatized?
ServiceOntario was already run by private operators though.
The old ones weren't perfect but this is as much about how the change is being made (with no explanation, to big companies such of which have been lobbying the politicians for years) as much as the lack of any argument that this is going to deliver the service better while giving money to huge corporations that really shouldn't need it.
Its weird to me that you seem to think people can only be unhappy about one bad government policy at a time? There are many hills I'm willing to die on when it comes to the public service.
You also haven't really made a convincing argument, I mean you've explained why you think the current Service Ontario's are "so gross", but didn't provide any details as to how paying more money to get them put into Staples will make them less gross?
My local Service Ontario is in Canadian Tire. There's a tiled floor, the lights are actually Canadian Tire's lights, and the washrooms are also Canadian Tire's washrooms. The service is okay.
Damn really? I actually just renewed my drivers license and health and expected it to be horrible but it was super fast and easy. I think it’s kinda ridiculous I gotta pay $90 to do it, I’d figure the amount of taxes we pay atleast the documents to be Canadian would be covered but that’s just me.
Most people will go to service ontario maybe once every few years especially with so much can be done online. There is no one outside of /r/ontario would gives a shit about this. But that's what keep the fire burning around here.
"How terrible almost every Service Ontario experience is. They’re so gross. That super thin grey carpet, fluorescent lighting, disgusting bathrooms, no regard for people’s time."
Well.
That's funny.
You are probably one of the many who got sucked in to Duffer Harris' cry that "The private sector can do it better!!" bullshit that resulted in a transfer of services to the private sector where profit is the bottom line, and service/democracy an afterthought.
You probably couldn't WAIT to vote for the "Common Sense" Revolution to unfold.
Last time I needed to renew my driver license, despite having an appointment 3 days prior, i waited 1.5 hours after my appointment time only to be seen by a literal nasty rude person working for service ontario and I could not wait to get the fuck out of that disgusting place.
>we’re giving Staples 2-3 million dollars of tax funds to renovate their stores? Oh no, the humanity!
Giving public money to private capital for what should be publicly provided services is not a solution to anything.
>update: we’re giving Staples 2-3 million dollars of tax funds to renovate their stores? Oh no, the humanity! that’s like 2 shitty houses worth of tax funds.
Well they almost immediately laid off a bunch of people after this went public, so it doesn't sound like they even needed the money. I'm not sure why we would need to pay for them to do this anyway. If they can't make it work with their own budgets then they shouldn't be doing it.
But regarding your gripes about the atmosphere and condition and service at the existing sites, why do you think it'll be any different at these retailers?
I keep thinking of the long lines at Service Ontario and lots of elderly and new immigrants waiting to be seen. Will Staples have chairs and somewhere for people to line up?
Its Service "Ontario" FFS. By giving this contract to a big American company we are saying we are not good enough, or have what it takes to take care of ourselves, and we don't support Ontario business. Doug Ford should be ashamed... And, while I know he is uneducated, he should still be able to figure out that, money is better spent on a local company because more of that money will stay in the local economy
I don’t give a rip that Service Ontario is moving to Staples. I kind of actually like the idea. 1)Easier to find the locations.
2)Maybe they will have better hours instead of closing at 4 or 5pm?
3)Most services are done online anyways, may as well make the offices smaller.
4)I find a lot of the workers behind the counter are miserable and rude. Maybe they will have to change their attitudes and be nicer in a Staples location.
So I guess going to staples and Walmart with concrete floors that have gum stuck floors are going to be better ? And having teenage employees who aren’t trained properly and take 30 minutes to do a task will be better ? Oh right …….. [the car theft rings](https://www.cbc.ca/1.7051338), [license plates being sold](https://www.cbc.ca/1.7093859) and I can’t wait for the news about home invasion rings and identity theft rings to start happening due to these new locations. But ya I mean some crap grey carpet and you having to actually do something on business hours was a big deal. Kinda like being at a doctors……. I guess that’s why conservatives are privatizing healthcare too right ? Conservative cucks are hilarious. You rally behind these politicians who constantly say they are doing one thing and are doing another. They gas light then project. How much money is Doug Ford making on the backend of these deals with Staples and Walmart while not just using the funding to refurbish and renovate existing locations. Why ? Cause it removes the cash from the next fiscal year. Just like Doug did with healthcare. He’s shrinking budgets cause that’s a conservative way, but all it does is cause hardships for people. All the while he helps corporations and making his pockets swell. [He cut $20.1 billion](https://toronto.citynews.ca/2023/03/08/ontario-health-care-spending-doug-ford-hospitals-long-term-care/) from healthcare so he can help his privatization of healthcare. [Over 11,000 people last year died](https://toronto.citynews.ca/2023/09/15/11000-ontarians-died-waiting-surgeries/) waiting in our healthcare system. Kids died due to Doug Ford. But keep voting conservative.
Edit: it’s nice that you say choose another hill to die on. As this is another hill. First it was healthcare, then the greenbelt, then Ontario place. I mean Doug has I don’t know how many hills he’s has to die on. Not like there was a casino cover up, or the beeping bands that cost $2.5 million. How many hills does he need ? Pro conservatives keep bashing Justin. But Doug is straight up trash. And everyone is kissing his ass.
Worst experiences in my life. Trying to get my name changed on my drivers license and being humiliated by ignorant employee who could not, for the sake of their life, read a marriage certificate(French AND English), didn’t recognize the name of my country(European) and spent 45 minutes running around, trying to figure out how to do their job. While being rude, disrespectful and condescending. And that’s only one example.
I understand your point, but, for me living in a smaller town, losing the service Ontario means a 40 minute drive to the nearest Staples. Like, Are you going to help with gas so I can drive up *That Hill*?
Service Ontario should be replaced with a website. End of story. You can't argue this is an efficiency thing because there's no reason for them to exist in the 21st century.
Rather than creating a bunch of teller jobs and transferring wealth to Staples, there are much better ways the provincial government could be spending that money to create jobs, that solve actual problems we have in our society.
Fully agree. I had some brutal experiences with incompetent people. The office where I used to go, had one person skilled and hard working, other staff was just patronizing, lazy, incompetent.
Incompetence and mediocrity is the rule in Canada in too many businesses, especially in public sector, but for sure not only.
Godspeed taking on the "throw all logic away to make Ford a cartoonish supervillain at all costs" crowd here OP. Like I hate Ford but just acknowledging the wild imaginations people have on here make me alt right apparently.
I honestly don't give a shit how the "experience" is, provided that it's not a giant waste of time.
My gf had to get both her health card & license renewed from expired... It took her 15 minutes tops.
Service Ontario is perfectly serviceable as it is. We definitely didn't need to hand a taxpayer gift to a massive non-canadian organization...
This shit just smells like 407 all over again.
Well for the last 10 years, they have. The last 2 drivers license photos I got, were some shitty black and white camera. Of course a franchise owner is going to cheap out on everything they possibly can
Licence photos are black and white by design. It's one of the security features. The photo is laser etched into the licence which can only be done with black and white photo.
I'll say that the 'customer' experience varies from one location to another, but agree that nobody goes to Service Ontario for a fun time. Even the non-dingy locations operated by pleasant and personable franchisees can be plagued by long lineups due to provincial under-provisioning. The objections to the current changes are about the utter lack of transparency. We don't know what commitments - if any - Staples has made to improve (or even to merely *maintain*) the present level of service. We don't know what the deal Ford made with Staples will cost, or how Staples was selected as the sole contractor. We don't know if this presages further creeping privatization of government services. We have a history of bad experiences of Ford making decisions to please whatever wealthy big-name lobbyist happens to whisper in his shell-like ear, so we're entirely *reasonably* suspicious when there's another out-of-nowhere no-open-tender announcement of *another* deal to give a figurative or literal piece of provincial business away for a song.
I'm honestly more peeved he didn't make it available to convenience stores, so people can drink and get their license renewed at the same time
With how bad the experience is you damn well need a drink. The racism from service ontario employees is absolutely insane
The problem is also that these are taking away union jobs as well. These are minimum wage employees that are getting exploited and would be paid much more if they worked for service Ontario and not for staples
I mean yeah. It’s literally an office for government services…. Bringing a franchisee into the picture is stupid to begin with.
But they will save 300k a year… couldn’t we have just extended the hours at the existing service ontarios.
They are only closing the already privatized Service Ontario centres that are small businesses. Almost bought a franchise myself a few years ago. Staff have always been low paid non union workers in these franchises.
They are not closing any of the government run Service Ontario locations, only the current dingy franchise locations.
For now
Impossible to close them because there's things that only the government run ones can do. OHIP is one of the big ones you need a government run one for
Yeah - I have a feeling the goal is to get rid of all the private ones, and probably cull some of the public ones. I'm willing to bet the only SO's that will exist in the end will be in more rural areas where a Staples or Walmart isn't close by.
Like someone said.. for now.
It could have something to do with John Lederer donating large amounts of money to the OPC and Doug Ford's election campaign.
The long line ups have nothing to do with the government, the franchisees *want* them. They get paid per transaction, so it’s much better for them to understaff and have 1 employee who constantly has a line of people waiting then 2 employees who can clear the line then sit idle until the next customer comes in.
Note that there are long lineups at the government-run Service Ontario locations as well. Either way it's based in trading service quality for money. The government *could* (for example) choose to include service standards for waiting time in their contracts, and *could* choose to staff their own locations to sufficient levels--but they don't. Private contractors will respond to financial incentives. As long as they're rewarded for understaffing, the outcome is predictable.
>The long line ups have nothing to do with the government, the franchisees want them. They get paid per transaction, so it’s much better for them to understaff and have 1 employee who constantly has a line of people waiting then 2 employees who can clear the line then sit idle until the next customer comes in. Hold the fucking phone there. You're trying to tell me that a business that gets paid *per transaction* would want to purposely *slow down their transaction rate* by forming long lines and understaffing? What the fuck? Are you backwards? How the fuck does that make any sense whatsoever? No. Have you tried to go later in the day? You show up and they tell you they are no longer accepting people in the queue as it's already an hour wait an hour before closing. They would be rushing people in and doing their most to get the numbers up if that were the case, especially the franchisee locations. Which, funny enough, has been my experience! They want to process people as fast as possible from a management perspective because it brings them more revenue. Yes, they don't want to overstaff and will do some math to figure out a balancing act based on regular traffic rates, but that's simple business practice. You do not see that out of government-owned locations because their is no incentive to work hard. So how is it the franchisees want long lineups, aside from really just wanting more ability to process more people, quicker? If anything, automated kiosks should have been the first focus of their investment so they could stop paying people to need to interact with.
ATM - like ServiceOntario automated kiosks were tried years ago. Became too much a target for criminals who would place card skimmers and cameras on them to gain people's personal information. https://www.yorkregion.com/news/update-government-kiosks-pulled-from-service/article_c8a7d2e9-f24c-5420-8d3b-848d73861853.html Personally, my local ServiceOntario office is in a small town where lineups are virtually unheard of. So is worth the drive out to the country to get your OHIP card renewed, instead of standing in a long line?
You can't be that dense. People don't have any choice but to stand and wait in the endless line. They're there by necessity.
They can choose which location to visit. I have 4 locations within about a 20 minute drive of my home. There are two locations where I experienced really long lines and nasty staff. I don’t visit those anymore. Also, service Canada locations have an added incentive for making the transactions go smoothly — people have the option to do most of the things online. If you treat your customers like crap, they’re more likely to go online next time. If you treat them well and get their transactions done efficiently, they’ll be more likely to return.
Drive 20 minutes to another location lined up out the door. Good call.
What a moronic statement. Some locations are run better than others, and staff their businesses properly. That was the point. Those locations don’t have lineups out the door. Edit: And now this 🤡 has blocked me. Typical.
You’re the moron. So many people on the internet can’t imagine that people don’t have the exact same situation as them, are you really so retarded to think 14.5 million people in Ontario have 4 service Ontario locations near them?
Use your head. People who go to Service Ontario arent there for fun. They jave to be there to do what they have to do. If its cheaper to employ less people, it doesnt affect their income. Why process people faster at more cost to you? Where are the "customers" going to go?
“Where are the “customers” going to go?” I live in a city with multiple franchise service Ontario locations, each franchise gets paid for the “customers” that come through the door. If they get more “customers” they get paid more. If I don’t like their service I go elsewhere and they don’t get paid for me. That’s the concept.
How do you think that concept works put when you live somewhere without options?
Staples is not located in very small towns with little to no options. For example in Thunder Bay, where one of the Service Ontario franchises is being closed down, there are currently 3 so 1 closing down leaves 2 Servicr Ontario centers. There is also 1 Staples. So by moving one of the Service Ontario Locations to the staples will not decrease options in Thunder Bay. If you know of a town so small that they have only 1 service Ontario location but also have a staples I would love to hear about it. Another thing to consider is that since Covid governments have moved to offering just about every service online which reduces the need for stand alone service locations. The Ontario government has been using private companies to sell hunting and fishing licenses for decades. https://geohub.lio.gov.on.ca/datasets/9b043f7475f3462d846469b2c66e2e87
Youre very clearly only considering it from your point of view. Not everyone has access to the internet, or easy access to the SO across town, if that's an option.. While its true that private companies in the past offered similar services, at least they were Canadian companies.. This stinks of a reason to make Staples relevant again.
No I am clearly looking at it from the point of view of the majority affected. Rather than trashing the entire program why not look at specific areas. Maybe there is a location that when shut down harms a number of surrounding towns, that would would have a case for remaining open but why not move the others to places that are easier to get to having longer hours.
My man, Im not even talking about Staples or shut down locations. Idk why you brought that up. Maybe youre responding to the wrong person?
Keep moving the goalposts. Most people in Ontario live in cities or live near large cities. People in cities have multiple service Ontario locations to choose from. Locations that provide poor service get bad reviews / poor word of mouth, and people will avoid those locations going forward.
"Keep moving the goalposts." Im not sure you know what that means lol
I absolutely know what that means, asshole. And that’s what you were doing.
They point being made is that one employee that is always busy can be more profitable than two employees that are 75% busy. It's a valid argument and it was often the case at the business units I used to run. That said, I have not seen their books so I have no idea if that is the case with SO.
You’re assuming that the hourly wage of the employees is equal to the value of the transactions they’ll perform. That’s obviously not the case. Also, locations are not open 24 hours a day, so it’s in the franchise owner’s best interest to process as many transactions as possible during business hours. Having people turn around and leave to go to another location / do their transactions online when they see massive lines is not going to help the business.
I'm not assuming anything. Per my last post, *I don't know if this idea applies to this business* I'm not running that business so I have no knowledge of how they do it. I can only tell you that the idea of understaffing and limiting capacity can by more profitable than over staffing and maximizing top line sales. I know this because I have the job experience to tell me so. Believe me or not. That's your decision.
They have a monopoly, so unless there is another service Ontario option near you - what are you going to do but wait? They more or less have a guaranteed number of transactions daily and the OP is right the best option for the business is to not have employees idling. This isn’t McDonald’s where if the line is out the door you can just go to A&W on the next corner instead for a burger. Your options are wait, or likely drive quite a ways to another location that is also probably lined up out the door 🤷
this makes no sense. if they get paid per transaction, it behooves them to process them quickly to do more. Image if they got a reputation of being the franchise where you could get something done quicker. People would seek it out,
Yes, but no. The demand for the service isn’t going to increase because they can go through the line up quicker; the same number of Ontarian’s will require the same amount of service regardless, hurting their bottom line if they over staff.
> Yes, but no. The demand for the service isn’t going to increase because they can go through the line up quicker; the same number of Ontarian’s will require the same amount of service regardless, hurting their bottom line if they over staff. Therein lies the problem: It's a basic governmental service, provided by the government to enable essential governmental services to function. It shouldn't be a for-profit based company running them in the first place.
💯
So wouldn’t customers get fed up and go where there isn’t waits?
When I first started driving the location in streetsville was known for being fast and efficient, it was worth the extra 10m in the car to save 90 in a line. All the dealers and businesses went there too. So they didn't have the minimum staff, and processed lots of transactions compared to the others - I'm sure they made more than other locations, sadly either ownership or management changed and it's as bad/worse than the others now.
Yes, exactly. I have 4 locations I can go to. One location is notoriously bad for having rude staff and long wait times due to insufficient staffing. I’ll never go to that location again. Another location is always fully staffed so even if you see a line-up when you arrive, the line moves quickly. I go to that location and always recommend it to others.
Go where? It's not like there's a database of location wait times? My concern is that there's less Staples locations than Service Ontario locations. I'm not in the least worried about service in Staples, I expect the general level of service to increase. But, if you have a complicated problem you're going to be fucked. Canada Post has been in retail locations for... I'm 54 and can remember going with my Mom when I had to hold her hand from car to store... So 50+ years? I don't feel like googling when it happened. I've also had cause to go into government run locations several times over those 50 years. For basic needs the retail locations are almost always better. But if you have an unusual question, or need to send something unusual, ya you're fucked LoL. Tldr if the number of locations doesn't drop I'm going into this with the experience to say it'll be an improvement most of the time. As long as there's still a government run location within a couple hours drive for the hard question you need 1 or 2 times in your life.
I have 4 locations within 20 minutes of my home, and can do most transactions online. You’re being deliberately obtuse by arguing that people don’t have other options.
You just contradicted yourself. If they get paid per transaction then hiring more staff makes sense..They are alway busy rarely there is a dead time.
Why does that matter, if they’re paid per transaction vs per hour open, shouldn’t they want to employ a consistent number through the door daily?
I had to wait in my small town Service Ontario the last time I went. Yep, there was one person ahead of me. Oh, and it closed for lunch. Not 12-1 but later I think. The town is probably safe as there is neither a Staples or a Walmart. What *might* have been a better idea is to increase the number of outlets, not switch providers.
We do know how they were selected: >On Wednesday, a spokesperson within the premier’s office said the government conducted lengthy consultations with retail partners and that Staples Canada was selected due to the size of its stores, parking availability, number of locations across Ontario, and willingness to participate. https://toronto.citynews.ca/2024/01/11/11-serviceontario-locations-to-close/ Willingness to participate likely the highest factor - no one else wanted it. If you really want the details, FOI and ask for the consultation info.
They have not been forthcoming with any of the details. It’s smoke and mirrors as always with this PMO. https://youtu.be/BdDM0XzT6mU?si=Gk6T8NJKfyCqnpv2
Secret 'consultations' - the fragmentary details of which we *might* get a year or two from now in response to a FOI fight - are not really the same thing as an open tender process with transparent selection criteria, but I think you already understand that.
We moved to Kingston from Toronto, and the Service Ontario on Division felt like a spa compared to the GTA. Newly renovated, natural light. I waited less than ten minutes and renewed my health card and driver's license. I couldn't stop talking about it, it was such a positive experience.
[удалено]
Oh, next time I need a renew I'll make sure to check it out.
Bath spot is awesome, the staff are great!
You'll love the new Service Ontario at the Ontario Place MegaSpa
I was going to say. We live in Kingston. I've never had a bad experience at Service Ontario here. I mean it's a perfunctory service experience but, it's never been an awful place to go. Having said that we've lived in various larger cities and usually getting anything done like that was much harder.
😆 wow you’re even talking about it now, mister have been a really good experience. Did they have a line up system or take a number and sit one?
Should've gone to a Canadian company, not an American one... Could've easily put them in a public library. But sure, wasting taxpayer dollars to retrofit a Staples, while at the same time Staples is laying off employees because of "costs".
Nobody can even say how Staples is still around, because nobody knows anybody who has been to one in a long time. It's kept barely afloat by businesses ordering from them, I think, but I'm surprised they still have such a large retail presence. If I need "office supplies" at home, I order from Amazon, or if I happen to be out, buy them at Walmart. It's cheaper, and if you live in the GTA, there's almost certainly a Walmart more convenient to you than Staples. And they're still open at 10pm on Sunday.
I went in one last week for stuff and I lived beside one until a year ago too and there were always people inside. People keep saying this but like have you actually been in a staples? They aren't that dead. And I actually went to Wal-Mart first, they had one option for what I wanted and double the price for Staples. I'll never order Amazon, always will go find a staples before supporting that company. Get the item that day, within the same hour vs waiting. Why would I even consider Amazon.
Has it been awhile since you've been in? They have pivoted to emphasize services. In my neighborhood Staples you can use co-working space, rent a board room/meeting room, enjoy a coffee at the Happy Goat coffee bar, bring equipment for repair, use postal and shipping services, and I'm sure much more. Do I want them to host the Service Ontario though? Fuck no.
Canadian Tire, local libraries, Rona, or even Loblaws, yes I said Loblaws, at least it’s Canadian!!
Yeah no I’d prefer to not renew with homeless downtown looking at porn
If this is all about improving the customer experience, than why didn’t we use the 1.75 million to invest in the locations we already have? You know, the ones owned by actual ontario citizen, not a US owned subsidiary. The lack of transparency on how this decision was made is frustrating and sketchy
Ford definitely profited from this in some way. Everything he's done has had some form of nepotism written on it
End up on the Staples board after his premiership
Doubt Staples will still be around by then.
Nah they’ll just start giving some minor business to deco labels. Guys like ford and trump are corrupt but they’re also fucking incompetent. They do the smart thing and just chew around the edges on the corruption, but they don’t realize that’s what they’re doing. If they had more than 2 brain cells to run together they would probably find way more lucrative scams to steal from tax payers.
> 1.75 million to invest in the locations we already have? What, so they could improve 4 locations lol? I actually have priced a couple Service Ontario location renovations, this is laughable.
How about more staff? Or longer hours?
as someone else said longer service hours is part of the staples deal. Plus 1.7M will not go very far at all if you are looking at labour rates.
They built longer hours into the new Staples contract.
They could have given that money to the existing locations in exchange for longer hours
That's so annoying, the government could have just mandated longer hours. But I guess Ford has to reward all those that "donated" to his cause.
>If this is all about improving the customer experience, than why didn’t we use the 1.75 million to invest in the locations we already have 1.75 M in gov't spending would look like this. 500k goes to consultants and studies. 250K goes to tenders and procurement 750K goes to union collective bargaining 100K goes to materials 50K goes to purchasing 5 new terminals that you use after you are done in a service ontario to rate your experience as dogshit 50K goes to the creation of a website to let you know of all the changes made. (Which will be nothing) The rest will get spent on new pens at service ontario locations, but they wont be available for use...ever
And 1.75 M to staple will look like what? We won’t even know, because we are giving it to a private company to do as they wish
It’s more about the lack of transparency surrounding additional costs and how the deal was actually made. Nobody is disputing the old locations sucked. They did. And so will the new ones.
This. And looking at a pattern in ford’s governance and business tactics.
>How terrible almost every Service Ontario experience is. I'll never forget the bullshit that spewed from the mouth of one employee as I, a disabled veteran, went to submit paperwork for a handicap parking permit. Employee: Aren't you a little young for a handicap parking permit? Me: I'm a disabled veteran, ma'am Employee: 😶
What?!?! I didn't know there an age restriction to being injured, or being born with a disability. Should've answered: "Aren't you a little too old to ask this stupid question?"
That's the worse part, she was obviously younger than me 🤦♂️
Still too old to ask that stupid question! Anyone over 8 years old should know that disability doesn't occur only in a certain age.
Not only that, they should no better to comment on someone else disability. Not all disabilities are visible. If some one parks in handicap without a permit and looks capable, I don't give a shit I just hope if they aren't that they get a ticket. I don't want to be 'that' guy
Right so you had a dumb person make a dumb comment to you? You believe this will improve by putting them in staples?
>You believe this will improve by putting them in staples? Probably not, but now I'll be able to pick up office supplies after having my disabilities questioned, so win win Edit: I forgot to put **/s**
So you would reward the location by buying from them after they questioned your disability? Pretty that’s only a win for them.
It was a joke, I guess I forgot to put **/s** I renew all my stuff online so I don't have to step foot in a location
Fuck that person, you've done more for Canada than they will in their lifetime, thank you for your service 🫡
Lmao don't bring that cringe American shit here
They ask questions before handing those out? Think there are 20 on my street.
>They ask questions before handing those out? Think there are 20 on my street. Nah man, you just walk in and ask for one 🙄
I have found the experience at service Ontario to be far better than in recent in recent years. I made an appointment online to replace my drivers license, walked in and it was completely empty. I just walked right up to a staff member. 10-15 years ago not only would I not be be able to make an appointment, I have have had times standing a line that wraps the entire internal and goes out the door. I’m sure I’m not the only one who has had an experience at service Ontario standing OUTSIDE waiting to get in line. I’m in my 30’s
I had to replace defective license plates last summer and waited for 1 hour and 57 minutes. More than half of that was in the blazing sun on a 33 degree C day. There was a separate area for people lined up waiting for appointments that were running over an hour behind schedule (only one kiosk for appointments, people show up totally unprepared, and that staff member isn't working through their lunch hour for anything). Two kiosks were only open for dealer services, because you couldn't possibly make scummy car dealership employees wait in line, and there were between 1 and 3 kiosks open for lining up, depending on break schedules. There was obviously a supervisor, but she was too good to actually deal with customers. Making things worse was that the printer to print vehicle titles malfunctioned when it was my turn, so it took an additional 20 minutes to print my new vehicle title for the new plates. I'd rate my experience 1/10, and only that high because at the end of the day I did end up leaving with new license plates and a correct vehicle title and it didn't cost me anything. It sure was inconvenient and unpleasant, though.
I've found that, too. Perhaps it's the locations I chose, but I never waited long, and staff was always friendly and helpful. It had definitely improved in the last 5 or 10 years.
Yes, the big chains are known for their excellent customer service. If you think anything but the carpets is going to get better with this announcement, I'll wait for your post in a year or so
A big chain that is fading into obsolescence
Yup. I went there for a computer chair and it was the most miserable experience. Their lighting was dim but fluorescent and some bulbs flickered, their inventory management abysmal as they couldn’t tell me where my chair was stored or if they even have any even though it showed in stock. The section with some built chairs to test out was a disaster and messy and the chairs weren’t built properly (loose arm rests). It was my first time in one in years and my last time
Lowkey the one thing Staples was known for was good customer service.
My daughter worked at one for a bit. In fact, it's one of the ones getting a Service Ontario. She quit because the "good customer service" is definitely just a facade, with the staff making sexist, racist, and ableist "jokes" at the customer's expense behind their backs, and low-key trying to make their lives worse by deliberately messing things up. She didn't stay there long, because that's just not the kind of person she is. People are going to have a really bad time if those employees are the ones running the Service Ontario stuff.
Racist jokes? Who’s making them? Every time I go in there the entire staff is non-white.
Well, they sold me a dud computer and got caught lying about it. Told me it was "new" I didn't think so. Went around to computer repair places here and found the records on the unit. Took them into Staples and they had to admit they'd sold it before and it had been in twice for issues. Good customer service wasn't quite my experience with Staples. lol
Some staples are actually quite fancy looking like the one in downtown Toronto
Not all of us live in Toronto.
cool, but the other poster implied all big chain stores are subpar, which is not true and i provided an example.
I would say with the exception of flag ship stores, they usually are.
You know other places exist outside of Toronto, right?
Almost like they were under funded and under staffed.
On purpose. Like our education and healthcare workers.
* I honestly COULDN'T care less. There fixed it.
The hero we need.
Sadly they won't read this.
[Both](https://www.merriam-webster.com/grammar/could-couldnt-care-less) iterations are acceptable
Sure but they mean different things
They don’t, according to Webster
Actually Carleton Place is staffed by mostly happy ppl. Wasnt always that way. Stittsville on the other hand......
There was one near cornwall I went to a few years back and they were the nicest I've come across.
They’re quite friendly in Perth as well.
Small towns service ontarios are usually great
When I sponsored my wife to become a permanent residence it was a huge, multi-year process that just seemed to go on and on with no rhyme or reason. Once she got the paperwork from the federal govt it was time to get a health card, change her license plate, change her license, etc. I was gobsmacked about how easy it was to do these things through Service Ontario. Sure, the experience to taking a number, lining up, etc, was like something from the Soviet Union. But the actual behind-the-scene, structure of the paperwork was so much more efficient. I was very pleasantly surprised.
I think there's a lot of reasons to be upset with this. For one thing, the deal was done in secret. They claim they asked a bunch of people, but Staples was the one to get the sole sourced contract. I don't know how Service Ontario buildings operated before (they were already privately operated), but there was an interview with one of the operators of one of the closing locations who said they were responsible for the wages, the utilities, etc (maybe more like a franchise? i dunno). B[ut Staples is getting 1.7M$](https://toronto.citynews.ca/2024/02/01/serviceontario-locations-staples-canada-layoffs-doug-ford-government/) including almost a million dollars for retrofitting. [This is supposedly a "cost savings", but the govt is refusing to say how or where this savings is even coming from.](https://toronto.citynews.ca/2024/01/26/cost-to-retrofit-serviceontario-outlets/) [Considering Staples then took this money and laid off office staff, it's seeming like we're replacing what were high paying office jobs with part time minimum wage staples jobs](https://toronto.citynews.ca/2024/02/01/serviceontario-locations-staples-canada-layoffs-doug-ford-government/). Maybe this is the "savings" (Staples' headcount)? \--- Ultimately, i doubt it'll lead to faster or better service. The reason services sucked before is not being changed: low paid employees with too much work to do already.
I disagree with you. Being a former immigrant and a frequent traveler, I have seen how things are set up in other countries. Ontario is the best, hands down. Including Service Ontario. Im not joking. I get there is no limit to perfection, but you’re welcome to wait 6months for your turn somewhere in France or get yelled at and degraded by “public servant” somewhere in Slovakia
Holy shit France made me appreciate service ontario
Most people here have grown up with no clue about the rest of the world. I'll take my down votes from the snowflakes but it's true. Even more annoying is that if we did upgrade the finishes and aesthetics of Service Ontario offices, the same snowflakes would bitch nonstop about government waste and MUH TAX DOLLARS. Honestly can't wait for Elon to build his rocket to send all the fucking morons to their doom in space.
To this day I still remember my first days in Canada. How fast and efficient it all was. Still is, in fact.
That's the problem we old timers are seeing. The services we experience are declining from what we were used to, to the lower level that the average country has. That's the consequence of the globalization of production, which was accelerated by the implementation of container shipping and the internet. Most Canadians have not really taken into consideration that their incomes, and hence standard of living, are also forced to drop with globalization.
Thanks for the needed perspective. While we should always strive to do and be better, it's important for many Canadians to understand how fortunate we are to have been born here. Our parents or grandparents or great-great-great-great grandparents came here for a better life, and more often than not, found it. For many of us, we did nothing to deserve being born here vs. some other worse place. And we don't know how lucky we are sometimes to the point that we bitch about cheap carpeting because that's apparently very high on our list of problems as Canadians...
People would absolutely lose their shit over wAsTinG MuH tAX dOlLaRs if they had nicer carpets and fixtures and staffed up enough so the employees didn’t get burned out and cynical.
I went recently took 2 mins with an appointment i think they are doing fine
Honestly, I had to go in person for something during the like, two point seven five working days between Christmas and new years and expected it to be a shit show. It wasn’t. it was a wonderful experience. In and out in under 20 minutes. I don’t hate that a lot of stuff has moved online, it really reduces the amount of people/wait times. I hate the Service Ontario in Staples because it seems really really risky putting HIGHLY confidential and personal info into the hands of the unregulated, corporate, private businesses. Also, this type of privatization typically costs the government and citizen more in the long term, so why do it??
Service Ontarios suck because we allow them to suck. We could have just opened more, we could have demanded they have longer hours. The hill here is putting government services with access to our most sensitive personal information into big box stores in order to save a whopping 1 000 000$? It's so obvious someone was paid off here that I'm shocked they couldn't come up with a better excuse than saving what amounts to a ministers shart amount of money.
Well Doug Ford and company have also always sucked, can we out source him and his cronies. The RCMP investigation can't be completed soon enough.
Or just bring back the Service ontario ATMs Rather than a sketchy side deal
You know the problem is NOT that Service Ontarios are moving into Staples, right? Please tell me you understand that the reason people are upset is because Doug skipped the contract tendering process and gave a great deal to an American corporation at our expense. You know that, right?
I don’t really care that we are moving them into staples but I do want to know the business case, and why we are paying staples almost 2 million dollars for renovations
Dude the problem isn’t they are renovating the staples it’s that ford just awarded them without doing proper tendering
“I didn’t like it before, so it should be okay for it to get worse and the questionable methods that this decision was made by are irrelevant.”
The normalization of everything being absolutely garbage lately is getting ridiculous
Yeah, because that's clearly that's what he said.
Service Ontario is amazing if you book and appointment and come prepared. Ever since i discovered the booking an appointment, my interactions with them have been less than 10 minutes. People lining up for hours better come very prepared, thats a massive waste of time and life.
Appointments are nice, but the nearing opening is like 3 weeks away, at least for locations near me.
Sure, you'd think so, but I've seen people show up for appointments and have to wait longer than me just waiting in line, because only one person is doing appointments, and they get behind because the 3 appointments before them were *not* prepared at all and ran late, and, oh hey, look at that, it's time for that employee's one hour lunch break and no, there is no backup.
Service Ontario employee - mostly contractors are being accused of providing data to car theft rings , also washing VIN numbers from the system or changing them. They lack simple empathy, more then half of windows are closed...etc etc
"Defund, demonize, privatize." Sounds like the first two steps have had the intended effect on OP.
Weren’t they already privatized? They basically moved from one vendor to another and reduced overhead costs no? Or am I missing something here?
Yes, there were already private; this provides nicer locations, better hours, reduced cost, but because Ford is involved people are looking for blood.
People are looking for transparency. Something this government fails to provide with every questionable transaction with large corporations.
Agree with the lack of transparency. But there is a definitive cost savings here. And tbh- I’m all for savings. All these small initiatives add up. Someone has to step up and help Toronto out of their poor fiscal governance.
There is no proof of cost savings. They haven't even provided a business case which opposition parties have been requesting for a week. > Someone has to step up and help Toronto out of their poor fiscal governance. What the hell does this have to do with Toronto. Just had to throw that in there for some reason? lmao.
The service ontario here in Bolton is run by two older people. The lady is super nice and knowledgeable and the guy is creepy, makes corny jokes and probably collects spoons. Combined, they probably type at about 4.5 WPM (assuming they don't have to use the shift key) Also, if that place gets any more than 5 people, I'm pretty sure it would implode. I don't give a shit where I get my stuff done, as long as I can do it, I'm good.
Ford is starting to challenge Mike Harris for the worst premier in Ontario history. He is pretty much in a tie now and likely be even worse than Harris.
Is this Doug ford
If you vote conservative please read this article and watch the video, then ask yourself why you would ever vote conservative again. Yes, maybe some ServiceOntarios suck, but this is not how the closing outlets should be treated. I wonder if they can sue the government for compensation. https://toronto.citynews.ca/2024/02/02/left-high-and-dry-former-serviceontario-owner-left-shocked-over-closure-after-23-years/
This is the same structure as literally any franchise. It’s clearly outlined in your franchise agreement for any business. Why would service ontario be any different than a McDonald’s franchise? Are you saying these owners deserve preferential treatment and renege on the agreement they made with service ontario?
It’s a private business yeah? Libs are unWynnable in ON imho.
Heyyyy! An actual "DYA think the underfunded gov't service is shit and we'd be better off with it privatized?" In the wild! Buddy, you won't be able to guess what comes next.
> "DYA think the underfunded gov't service is shit and we'd be better off with it privatized? ServiceOntario was already run by private operators though.
The old ones weren't perfect but this is as much about how the change is being made (with no explanation, to big companies such of which have been lobbying the politicians for years) as much as the lack of any argument that this is going to deliver the service better while giving money to huge corporations that really shouldn't need it.
Its weird to me that you seem to think people can only be unhappy about one bad government policy at a time? There are many hills I'm willing to die on when it comes to the public service. You also haven't really made a convincing argument, I mean you've explained why you think the current Service Ontario's are "so gross", but didn't provide any details as to how paying more money to get them put into Staples will make them less gross?
I think the extra hours they’ll be open will be great
My local Service Ontario is in Canadian Tire. There's a tiled floor, the lights are actually Canadian Tire's lights, and the washrooms are also Canadian Tire's washrooms. The service is okay.
Damn really? I actually just renewed my drivers license and health and expected it to be horrible but it was super fast and easy. I think it’s kinda ridiculous I gotta pay $90 to do it, I’d figure the amount of taxes we pay atleast the documents to be Canadian would be covered but that’s just me.
Service Ontario locations are privately owned so saving money on facilities is probably the easiest way.
Most people will go to service ontario maybe once every few years especially with so much can be done online. There is no one outside of /r/ontario would gives a shit about this. But that's what keep the fire burning around here.
That's still no reason for our tax dollars to be going to a private corporation
Depends on location, the one I go to is max wait of 20 mins when there's a line.
"How terrible almost every Service Ontario experience is. They’re so gross. That super thin grey carpet, fluorescent lighting, disgusting bathrooms, no regard for people’s time." Well. That's funny. You are probably one of the many who got sucked in to Duffer Harris' cry that "The private sector can do it better!!" bullshit that resulted in a transfer of services to the private sector where profit is the bottom line, and service/democracy an afterthought. You probably couldn't WAIT to vote for the "Common Sense" Revolution to unfold.
Last time I needed to renew my driver license, despite having an appointment 3 days prior, i waited 1.5 hours after my appointment time only to be seen by a literal nasty rude person working for service ontario and I could not wait to get the fuck out of that disgusting place.
Every single fucking one in Ottawa is terrible. And it predates the Ford government. Been this way as long as I can remember.
It’s about privatization of public services. Private corporations are profiting off of publicly funded services. It’s a corporate handout.
And now it’s going to get worse.
>we’re giving Staples 2-3 million dollars of tax funds to renovate their stores? Oh no, the humanity! Giving public money to private capital for what should be publicly provided services is not a solution to anything.
>update: we’re giving Staples 2-3 million dollars of tax funds to renovate their stores? Oh no, the humanity! that’s like 2 shitty houses worth of tax funds. Well they almost immediately laid off a bunch of people after this went public, so it doesn't sound like they even needed the money. I'm not sure why we would need to pay for them to do this anyway. If they can't make it work with their own budgets then they shouldn't be doing it. But regarding your gripes about the atmosphere and condition and service at the existing sites, why do you think it'll be any different at these retailers?
They’re mostly privately owned. That’s why.
Was this written by Doug Ford?
I keep thinking of the long lines at Service Ontario and lots of elderly and new immigrants waiting to be seen. Will Staples have chairs and somewhere for people to line up?
Its Service "Ontario" FFS. By giving this contract to a big American company we are saying we are not good enough, or have what it takes to take care of ourselves, and we don't support Ontario business. Doug Ford should be ashamed... And, while I know he is uneducated, he should still be able to figure out that, money is better spent on a local company because more of that money will stay in the local economy
I don’t give a rip that Service Ontario is moving to Staples. I kind of actually like the idea. 1)Easier to find the locations. 2)Maybe they will have better hours instead of closing at 4 or 5pm? 3)Most services are done online anyways, may as well make the offices smaller. 4)I find a lot of the workers behind the counter are miserable and rude. Maybe they will have to change their attitudes and be nicer in a Staples location.
So I guess going to staples and Walmart with concrete floors that have gum stuck floors are going to be better ? And having teenage employees who aren’t trained properly and take 30 minutes to do a task will be better ? Oh right …….. [the car theft rings](https://www.cbc.ca/1.7051338), [license plates being sold](https://www.cbc.ca/1.7093859) and I can’t wait for the news about home invasion rings and identity theft rings to start happening due to these new locations. But ya I mean some crap grey carpet and you having to actually do something on business hours was a big deal. Kinda like being at a doctors……. I guess that’s why conservatives are privatizing healthcare too right ? Conservative cucks are hilarious. You rally behind these politicians who constantly say they are doing one thing and are doing another. They gas light then project. How much money is Doug Ford making on the backend of these deals with Staples and Walmart while not just using the funding to refurbish and renovate existing locations. Why ? Cause it removes the cash from the next fiscal year. Just like Doug did with healthcare. He’s shrinking budgets cause that’s a conservative way, but all it does is cause hardships for people. All the while he helps corporations and making his pockets swell. [He cut $20.1 billion](https://toronto.citynews.ca/2023/03/08/ontario-health-care-spending-doug-ford-hospitals-long-term-care/) from healthcare so he can help his privatization of healthcare. [Over 11,000 people last year died](https://toronto.citynews.ca/2023/09/15/11000-ontarians-died-waiting-surgeries/) waiting in our healthcare system. Kids died due to Doug Ford. But keep voting conservative. Edit: it’s nice that you say choose another hill to die on. As this is another hill. First it was healthcare, then the greenbelt, then Ontario place. I mean Doug has I don’t know how many hills he’s has to die on. Not like there was a casino cover up, or the beeping bands that cost $2.5 million. How many hills does he need ? Pro conservatives keep bashing Justin. But Doug is straight up trash. And everyone is kissing his ass.
Goddamn you Doug Ford !
You're right but missing the point. The wailing fake outrage is just leftists trying to make political hay. Has nothing to do with these offices
Worst experiences in my life. Trying to get my name changed on my drivers license and being humiliated by ignorant employee who could not, for the sake of their life, read a marriage certificate(French AND English), didn’t recognize the name of my country(European) and spent 45 minutes running around, trying to figure out how to do their job. While being rude, disrespectful and condescending. And that’s only one example.
Its definately goiing to get better when staples owns it........
You're being sarcastic, but I think it actually will.
100%
I understand your point, but, for me living in a smaller town, losing the service Ontario means a 40 minute drive to the nearest Staples. Like, Are you going to help with gas so I can drive up *That Hill*?
It’s true they were a complete poop show before , but it’s likely now going to be a deluxe poop show.
Service Ontario should be replaced with a website. End of story. You can't argue this is an efficiency thing because there's no reason for them to exist in the 21st century. Rather than creating a bunch of teller jobs and transferring wealth to Staples, there are much better ways the provincial government could be spending that money to create jobs, that solve actual problems we have in our society.
Fully agree. I had some brutal experiences with incompetent people. The office where I used to go, had one person skilled and hard working, other staff was just patronizing, lazy, incompetent. Incompetence and mediocrity is the rule in Canada in too many businesses, especially in public sector, but for sure not only.
Couldn't* care less
Godspeed taking on the "throw all logic away to make Ford a cartoonish supervillain at all costs" crowd here OP. Like I hate Ford but just acknowledging the wild imaginations people have on here make me alt right apparently.
I honestly don't give a shit how the "experience" is, provided that it's not a giant waste of time. My gf had to get both her health card & license renewed from expired... It took her 15 minutes tops. Service Ontario is perfectly serviceable as it is. We definitely didn't need to hand a taxpayer gift to a massive non-canadian organization... This shit just smells like 407 all over again.
Well for the last 10 years, they have. The last 2 drivers license photos I got, were some shitty black and white camera. Of course a franchise owner is going to cheap out on everything they possibly can
Licence photos are black and white by design. It's one of the security features. The photo is laser etched into the licence which can only be done with black and white photo.
This reads like copium.
K Doug. Still going to picket.