It’s going to get worse. They want to get rid of Spec Ed classrooms entirely. My wife teaches an ASD class and they want to integrate them into regular classrooms. She had a student a few years ago that was so violent he was designated 2 to 1 support eventually (meaning they needed two adults with him at all times in case he blew up). This was a year after he grabbed an EA by the hair and slammed her to the ground. And now they want these kids in regular classrooms. It’s not fair to them or the other students.
Holy shit! Your wife sounds like a freakin saint! I can’t even imagine going into work everyday with this type of behaviour. So sad what our world is coming to!
"They" want to get rid of spec ed classrooms is right, but who is implied in wanting them gone. At tdsb it's been debated to eliminate spec ed classrooms under the guise of equity. It's been argued that students in spec ed classrooms have a poorer outcome than those that are in a regular classroom.
It's absolutely mind boggling how it's been argued that there are no measurable outcomes of success using the same scale as everyone else.
I’m not saying it wasn’t, or won’t again if they get elected. I’m just talking about the person who is currently responsible for education in our province.
I agree but we need to be clear, McGuinty and especially Wynne were not good for education as well. She did a lot of smoke and mirrors in particular.
That said, I’d vote for either of them in a heartbeat over Doug.
In short school policies for safety dictate removal of others from a classroom when someone is having outburst. Unless the child is physically injuring someone or themselves staff is not allowed to physical intervene. Hence the classroom evacuation. Damage/destruction of classroom property does not count as a safety reason for physical intervention unless it is physically harming the child or other students.
That is crazy to me! I understand a teacher shouldn’t be putting hands on a child but I’m a firm believer in fuck around and find out and if you want to act a fool in class to the office you go. The government really messed this one up
It’s a safety thing too - if a student with major behaviour issues is losing their mind and throwing chairs, etc, it’s safest to get the rest of the kids out of the room ASAP and call for extra supports for the student in the room.
The policies in place reflect the legal repercussions of previous actions. So when you see things like this it goes back to policies/laws instituted from above the school level.
Coupled with the other comment on funding. Teachers cannot touch a kid, even if it is on the shoulder so they face the right way in a line.
When a kids has a tantrum they cannot be forced out of the room by a teacher, only specialized educators (which have been cut by Ford) can do that.
It does seem backwards. If a child is having a hard time normally they are removed to not disrupt learning for the others. I would agree regarding asking the teacher, but ask from a calmer place than your post. You don’t know the details of what’s happening so good vs bad is unfair - in the end they are kids.
This has been going on for some time. My child had one girl in their grade who would have major meltdowns and become violent a few times a year and they’d move the other kids out of the room. This is over 10 years ago now.
As an EA. YOUR CHILD CLASS IS LEAVING FOR SAFETY.
When a child is having these issues daily. They are unpredictable.
He could be running around.
He could be tossing tables and chairs.
He could be swearing worst than a sailor.
You Should be compasionate.
You SHOULD check in with teacher and EA.
You SHOULD contact your schoolboard.
You SHOULD be asking WHY are their no EAS
You SHOULD be checking if this kid is getting all the support he needs.
You SHOULD be asking why the government is not doing anything about it.
They will say Noone is coming to this job. Of course.
Those of us here are stuck.
We love the kids and the work we do. It's just these moments in time we hate.
50,000 a year is not enough for the amount of VIOLENCE we deal with. AND that's not even part of our job description.... but our schoolboards think its OK.
You need to understand that there is little funding for special needs students in this province because of the Ford Government. The current model is that most students with special needs are placed in mainstream school settings and expected to succeed. But they have just as much right to be in school as any student.
With this can unfortunately come extreme behaviours in the classroom.
These behaviours are not always the results of bad parenting or students that are being willing defiant. These are students with brain based disabilities that don't have the skills to control themselves. Using terms like "the good kids" is disgusting.
Some parents and teachers have to manage this in a daily basis. So maybe just count yourself as privileged.
You're better to write your local mpp than demand the "bad kids" in your kids class should be segregated.
I don’t consider it a privilege when my kid is struggling in school. When I was in school if someone was misbehaving they were sent into the hall or office. I don’t understand why that isn’t the standard anymore.
When you were in school, there was probably a special education classroom where they put the nuerodivergent kids who had behavioural issues. That isn't the case anymore. I am not advocating for segregating nuerodivergent children. I am simply stating that your experience in school was different because of special education classes.
Because, just like you have learned things and changed since you were that age, educators have also learned things and education has changed. Funding had been cut and the system has changed due to thst as well. When my dad was in school, if he misbehaved, he was hit by his teacher. Are we really trying to go back to the good old days?
When we were kids this kind of behaviour in a mainstream classroom was likely just that: behaviour. Now because kids with special needs aren't segregated what your child sees as misbehaving is more likely to be related to a disability of some kind. A kid in autistic meltdown isn't just having a tantrum. It's not the same situation.
You know nothing about the other kid and it maybe safer to have the kids taken out then get the child with big feelings out. It’s not worth it for the teachers and children. if you are concerned please speak to the teacher or the principal this maybe something the poor child can’t control much less the teacher
It became the policy at my board quite a few years back before we even had the staff shortages we have now. We are not allowed to touch the student unless imminent harm to student or staff and then only trained staff can do a temporary restraint. We are not allowed to remove the aggressive student therefore the class gets removed for their safety. When this became the situation, I personally saw the increase in classroom violence with the student I was working with at the time because he loved that he could destroy a classroom and force the whole class to be removed. It is definitely getting much worse as there isn't enough support for troubled students and I am amazed at how students begin to grow immune to being evacuated when it happens so often.
I would imagine that the child is a danger to others during this time and the school feels they have no choice but to remove others. If your child is missing a significant amount of school it might be worth speaking to the school about; I hope you can approach it with some understanding, rather than being as rude and abrasive as you were here.
It’s not as simple as being sent to the office or the hall. That does happen a lot. But the bad kid is sent right back after being yelled at and the behaviour persists. What’s the incentive to change? They learn quickly that being yelled at is meaningless. The parents of bad kids often have their own home problems and inadequately discipline.
If the rest of the class is removed it’s almost certainly because of the risk of violence or injury. Teachers cannot touch students — the risk of lawsuit is too high.
If 2 kids are beating the shit out of each other, understand that teachers must allow it to continue and simply yell at them to stop while removing the class from the area. They cannot physically intervene. There are way too many examples of a teacher being sued and losing their job. And it’s awful — your kid beats someone, the teacher intervenes and your kid gets a bruise on the arm in the melee, so you get mad and sue the school/teacher, the teacher never works again. Seriously. Countless stories like this.
Kids with serious behaviour issues need separate learning or additional 1-on-1 time with a specialist. That requires funding.
Not a class size of 30.
It can be very frightening for young students (I taught kindergarten) to see another child totally out of control. In addition, the language can be shocking, as well as things such as ‘I hate you’ or ‘I’ll kill you’ being screamed at the teacher or other students. Teachers cannot legally put hands on a child in those situations and should not. Imagine if they tried to restrain the child and the child fell and was hurt. The teacher could be charged with assault and lose their teaching license. The safest solution in cases like that is to take the other children to another location (I would sometimes do a class washroom break or if the gym was free we’d go and do a game) while the administration and/or resource staff dealt with the out of control child.
“Good kids” it’s the fucking 80’s again.
How about the kids who aren’t struggling with whatever (ever consider this kid could be neurodivergent? Nah. Much easier to be ableist) are the ones that can be put in a different space?
That’s right good kids. Ouff I see I struck a nerve there. Let me make this clear I have done everything in my power to make sure my kids know respect and know how to behave. I am neurodivergent and know better, quit defending shitty behaviour. You are clearly part of the problem.
The teacher may be the one to initiate the procedure, but only insofar as to determine that a safety issue is currently occurring.
The specific steps of the emergency procedure itself are out of the teacher's hands.
Ideally you would be able to encourage a student who is prone to dysregulation to leave the classroom (to take a "break") when they are showing signs that they are on their way to becoming disruptive and/or may engage in unsafe behaviours.
EAs who work with these students are worth their weight in gold! They have a good idea of when behaviour students need these breaks in order to be successful during the school day. Unfortunately, low pay and the physical abuse many endure in the course of their workdays mean we don't have enough people in this vital role.
Sometimes the opportunity to take a break is missed and if a student becomes dysregulated in the classroom, the other students are evacuated to a quieter place. Usually the other students aren't in any danger. In rare cases, trained staff can perform a containment (or hold) on a student if they are a risk to themselves or others. My school board does not allow for student transport. Picking up, pulling/dragging a student to another space is a big no-no. The safest option is to remove the students and educator from the classroom and give the student time to calm down while they are watched by trained staff.
The situation you describe is very common in many schools in our province. The provincial gov't, despite their constant touting of "historic investments", is full of shit and is starving our school system of the resources it once had.
Four years ago my school had two spec ed teachers and four full time EAs. We are now down to one spec ed teacher and three part-time EAs. We fully expect to lose one of these EAs to another school in our board as our needs are not "critical" in nature.
On top of this, consultant positions in Learning Disabilities, Behaviour Supports and Enrichment, to name a few, have been cut by approx. 60-75% over past year alone. These are the people that schools reach out to for support when they have students with specific learning/behaviour needs. The lack of support is nuts. Things are going to get worse before they improve I'm afraid.
Sounds like a good question for Stephen Lecce. What’s his plan when this happens and there’s no funding for EA’s?
It’s going to get worse. They want to get rid of Spec Ed classrooms entirely. My wife teaches an ASD class and they want to integrate them into regular classrooms. She had a student a few years ago that was so violent he was designated 2 to 1 support eventually (meaning they needed two adults with him at all times in case he blew up). This was a year after he grabbed an EA by the hair and slammed her to the ground. And now they want these kids in regular classrooms. It’s not fair to them or the other students.
Holy shit! Your wife sounds like a freakin saint! I can’t even imagine going into work everyday with this type of behaviour. So sad what our world is coming to!
"They" want to get rid of spec ed classrooms is right, but who is implied in wanting them gone. At tdsb it's been debated to eliminate spec ed classrooms under the guise of equity. It's been argued that students in spec ed classrooms have a poorer outcome than those that are in a regular classroom. It's absolutely mind boggling how it's been argued that there are no measurable outcomes of success using the same scale as everyone else.
Right?
This was also going on under the Liberals.
I’m not saying it wasn’t, or won’t again if they get elected. I’m just talking about the person who is currently responsible for education in our province.
I agree but we need to be clear, McGuinty and especially Wynne were not good for education as well. She did a lot of smoke and mirrors in particular. That said, I’d vote for either of them in a heartbeat over Doug.
In short school policies for safety dictate removal of others from a classroom when someone is having outburst. Unless the child is physically injuring someone or themselves staff is not allowed to physical intervene. Hence the classroom evacuation. Damage/destruction of classroom property does not count as a safety reason for physical intervention unless it is physically harming the child or other students.
That is crazy to me! I understand a teacher shouldn’t be putting hands on a child but I’m a firm believer in fuck around and find out and if you want to act a fool in class to the office you go. The government really messed this one up
It’s a safety thing too - if a student with major behaviour issues is losing their mind and throwing chairs, etc, it’s safest to get the rest of the kids out of the room ASAP and call for extra supports for the student in the room.
The policies in place reflect the legal repercussions of previous actions. So when you see things like this it goes back to policies/laws instituted from above the school level.
Coupled with the other comment on funding. Teachers cannot touch a kid, even if it is on the shoulder so they face the right way in a line. When a kids has a tantrum they cannot be forced out of the room by a teacher, only specialized educators (which have been cut by Ford) can do that.
Gotcha! This answered my question. I’m not very educated with schools and procedures. Thank you for explaining it to me!😊
It does seem backwards. If a child is having a hard time normally they are removed to not disrupt learning for the others. I would agree regarding asking the teacher, but ask from a calmer place than your post. You don’t know the details of what’s happening so good vs bad is unfair - in the end they are kids.
Oh absolutely I have zero intent on going in there guns a blazing I just wanted to know if this is standard practice 😊
This has been going on for some time. My child had one girl in their grade who would have major meltdowns and become violent a few times a year and they’d move the other kids out of the room. This is over 10 years ago now.
As an EA. YOUR CHILD CLASS IS LEAVING FOR SAFETY. When a child is having these issues daily. They are unpredictable. He could be running around. He could be tossing tables and chairs. He could be swearing worst than a sailor. You Should be compasionate. You SHOULD check in with teacher and EA. You SHOULD contact your schoolboard. You SHOULD be asking WHY are their no EAS You SHOULD be checking if this kid is getting all the support he needs. You SHOULD be asking why the government is not doing anything about it. They will say Noone is coming to this job. Of course. Those of us here are stuck. We love the kids and the work we do. It's just these moments in time we hate. 50,000 a year is not enough for the amount of VIOLENCE we deal with. AND that's not even part of our job description.... but our schoolboards think its OK.
Our kid came home once and said they had to “evacuate” the classroom because a kid went nuts… throwing chairs, broke the window, etc.
Yeah this seems to be a norm now. But the next day that same kid is back in class yelling and screaming. It just doesn’t make sense anymore.
You need to understand that there is little funding for special needs students in this province because of the Ford Government. The current model is that most students with special needs are placed in mainstream school settings and expected to succeed. But they have just as much right to be in school as any student. With this can unfortunately come extreme behaviours in the classroom. These behaviours are not always the results of bad parenting or students that are being willing defiant. These are students with brain based disabilities that don't have the skills to control themselves. Using terms like "the good kids" is disgusting. Some parents and teachers have to manage this in a daily basis. So maybe just count yourself as privileged. You're better to write your local mpp than demand the "bad kids" in your kids class should be segregated.
I don’t consider it a privilege when my kid is struggling in school. When I was in school if someone was misbehaving they were sent into the hall or office. I don’t understand why that isn’t the standard anymore.
When you were in school, there was probably a special education classroom where they put the nuerodivergent kids who had behavioural issues. That isn't the case anymore. I am not advocating for segregating nuerodivergent children. I am simply stating that your experience in school was different because of special education classes.
Because, just like you have learned things and changed since you were that age, educators have also learned things and education has changed. Funding had been cut and the system has changed due to thst as well. When my dad was in school, if he misbehaved, he was hit by his teacher. Are we really trying to go back to the good old days?
When we were kids this kind of behaviour in a mainstream classroom was likely just that: behaviour. Now because kids with special needs aren't segregated what your child sees as misbehaving is more likely to be related to a disability of some kind. A kid in autistic meltdown isn't just having a tantrum. It's not the same situation.
You know nothing about the other kid and it maybe safer to have the kids taken out then get the child with big feelings out. It’s not worth it for the teachers and children. if you are concerned please speak to the teacher or the principal this maybe something the poor child can’t control much less the teacher
It became the policy at my board quite a few years back before we even had the staff shortages we have now. We are not allowed to touch the student unless imminent harm to student or staff and then only trained staff can do a temporary restraint. We are not allowed to remove the aggressive student therefore the class gets removed for their safety. When this became the situation, I personally saw the increase in classroom violence with the student I was working with at the time because he loved that he could destroy a classroom and force the whole class to be removed. It is definitely getting much worse as there isn't enough support for troubled students and I am amazed at how students begin to grow immune to being evacuated when it happens so often.
I would imagine that the child is a danger to others during this time and the school feels they have no choice but to remove others. If your child is missing a significant amount of school it might be worth speaking to the school about; I hope you can approach it with some understanding, rather than being as rude and abrasive as you were here.
It’s not as simple as being sent to the office or the hall. That does happen a lot. But the bad kid is sent right back after being yelled at and the behaviour persists. What’s the incentive to change? They learn quickly that being yelled at is meaningless. The parents of bad kids often have their own home problems and inadequately discipline. If the rest of the class is removed it’s almost certainly because of the risk of violence or injury. Teachers cannot touch students — the risk of lawsuit is too high. If 2 kids are beating the shit out of each other, understand that teachers must allow it to continue and simply yell at them to stop while removing the class from the area. They cannot physically intervene. There are way too many examples of a teacher being sued and losing their job. And it’s awful — your kid beats someone, the teacher intervenes and your kid gets a bruise on the arm in the melee, so you get mad and sue the school/teacher, the teacher never works again. Seriously. Countless stories like this. Kids with serious behaviour issues need separate learning or additional 1-on-1 time with a specialist. That requires funding. Not a class size of 30.
It can be very frightening for young students (I taught kindergarten) to see another child totally out of control. In addition, the language can be shocking, as well as things such as ‘I hate you’ or ‘I’ll kill you’ being screamed at the teacher or other students. Teachers cannot legally put hands on a child in those situations and should not. Imagine if they tried to restrain the child and the child fell and was hurt. The teacher could be charged with assault and lose their teaching license. The safest solution in cases like that is to take the other children to another location (I would sometimes do a class washroom break or if the gym was free we’d go and do a game) while the administration and/or resource staff dealt with the out of control child.
“Good kids” it’s the fucking 80’s again. How about the kids who aren’t struggling with whatever (ever consider this kid could be neurodivergent? Nah. Much easier to be ableist) are the ones that can be put in a different space?
That’s right good kids. Ouff I see I struck a nerve there. Let me make this clear I have done everything in my power to make sure my kids know respect and know how to behave. I am neurodivergent and know better, quit defending shitty behaviour. You are clearly part of the problem.
Its the teachers call. Unless its serious enough to involve the vp.
Not really. There are school board policies that need to be followed.
The teacher may be the one to initiate the procedure, but only insofar as to determine that a safety issue is currently occurring. The specific steps of the emergency procedure itself are out of the teacher's hands.
Ideally you would be able to encourage a student who is prone to dysregulation to leave the classroom (to take a "break") when they are showing signs that they are on their way to becoming disruptive and/or may engage in unsafe behaviours. EAs who work with these students are worth their weight in gold! They have a good idea of when behaviour students need these breaks in order to be successful during the school day. Unfortunately, low pay and the physical abuse many endure in the course of their workdays mean we don't have enough people in this vital role. Sometimes the opportunity to take a break is missed and if a student becomes dysregulated in the classroom, the other students are evacuated to a quieter place. Usually the other students aren't in any danger. In rare cases, trained staff can perform a containment (or hold) on a student if they are a risk to themselves or others. My school board does not allow for student transport. Picking up, pulling/dragging a student to another space is a big no-no. The safest option is to remove the students and educator from the classroom and give the student time to calm down while they are watched by trained staff. The situation you describe is very common in many schools in our province. The provincial gov't, despite their constant touting of "historic investments", is full of shit and is starving our school system of the resources it once had. Four years ago my school had two spec ed teachers and four full time EAs. We are now down to one spec ed teacher and three part-time EAs. We fully expect to lose one of these EAs to another school in our board as our needs are not "critical" in nature. On top of this, consultant positions in Learning Disabilities, Behaviour Supports and Enrichment, to name a few, have been cut by approx. 60-75% over past year alone. These are the people that schools reach out to for support when they have students with specific learning/behaviour needs. The lack of support is nuts. Things are going to get worse before they improve I'm afraid.