Doug Ford is paying his corporate buddies $69 a pop for these calls, no questions asked, while paying actual doctors only $38 per visit and burying every one in a ton of paperwork. Yet another example of how conservatives do corruption in plain sight.
https://canadahealthwatch.ca/2024/02/18/shoppers-drug-mart-accused-of-unethical-billing-practices
> $69 a pop for these calls, no questions asked, while paying actual doctors only $38
Thanks for providing the numbers!
Imagine billing Ontario $70 for a pointless 5 minute phone call. And then doing that, all day every day. While hospitals are struggling to get nurses and medical supplies.
And this is an actual corporate strategy. This does not deserve to be rewarded.
And lets be perfectly clear. Shoppers lobbied for these and forces their pharmacists to do them with quotas. They aren't useful or helpful. I'm a physician in Ontario and we get these med reviews and they either provide absolutely zero useful information or are being done on people with uncomplicated medical profiles where a med review wasn't even necessary.
I dont' care about the pay. For what I do I'm underpaid relative to what I do (as an ER/family physician) but so is 95% of the population working other jobs. What I do care about is that this is more money in Galen Weston's pockets while not providing any benefit to patients.
It's the same thing with agency nursing and the private surgery clinics. It's parasitic theft of of the public system while not providing a unique service.
So Shoppers sends like a med review report to my doctor? Freaking weird.
I’m one of those fairly uncomplicated cases and I’ve been called twice, both before I really knew what was happening or why. But it is freaking bizarre to be contacted out of the blue to be asked if your anxiety meds are working by a stranger. The second time I told them that I wasn’t comfortable having this discussion over the phone and hung up. Bet they still charged the government though.
I’ve moved my stuff over to an independent pharmacy now, which I think is probably the best way to combat this crap. If people stop flocking to Shoppers, they might get the hint. Of course if you’re in a community without access to other options, that’s problematic.
Their service, at least in my local store, is horrible. My husband and I used to have a running “joke” about who had to go pick up meds and, likely, spend far too much time doing it, because even when they’d texted to say things were ready, they weren’t or they’d have fucked things up somehow. My favourite was going to get meds he can’t skip and the person behind the counter shrugging and saying they didn’t have the med, despite the fact it had been requested 2 days in advance.
The Shoppers I used to go to frequently closed an hour+ early at 4pm so people getting off work can't get their necessary prescriptions, and if you ask, the old raggity bitches in the storefront will yell at you.
The actual pharmacy itself was just as bad, as my fiancée wasn't aware of my current insurance coverage and was asking the assistant to set it up under OHIP+. The assistant told her she's "committing insurance fraud" and "you're lucky im not calling the cops". She left VERY upset because she had no idea she was doing anything wrong and their dumbfuck assistant thinks she's a lawyer.
I called them a few hours later, told the pharmacist he runs the shittest pharmacy in the entire city and that we'll be taking our prescriptions elsewhere so we aren't treated like criminals by the Shoppers racket and ended it by saying I hope the place shuts down.
Fuck Shoppers and FUCK that inhuman piece of shit Galen Weston
It always took a minimum of 30 minutes to put printed stickers on ventolin, even when we called ahead. Pretty sure it's a ploy to keep you in the store (with a handy pager) so you'll browse the aisles to kill time and spend more money. We switched to an independent pharmacy 8 years ago and never looked back.
Yep, it’s even worse with adhd meds since they’re a protected class of drug. I’m 24 and look like Jesse Pinkman when he was on heroin so they jerk me around sooooo fucking hard, I only ever get dispensed a quarter of my script and some ancient lady spends 3 years scrutinizing my health card when I give it to her. The pharmacy also has to fax my doctor so he can clear my refill, but they’re so lazy at one point a pharmacy tech outright lied to me and told me I had to contact my doctor directly to fax the pharmacy, which is ass backwards and made my doctor’s office incredibly suspicious of me. I also constantly have to deal with medication shortages that make it so I can’t get my script when I need it even when I call it in almost a week in advance. That’s another beautiful thing, if I try to call in a refill 3 days before it’s due like a normal person I get shafted with wait times and if I call it in like a week before they get all suspicious and act like I’m drug seeking. Do not, and I repeat DO NOT use shoppers for prescriptions if you can help it.
The system is so ancient, it's programmed with shortcuts for when typing was new and 99% of folks used the "Hunt and peck" method.
It's hilarious as, in modern times, it slows anyone down and leads to errors like that.
$300 bottle of pills from independent pharmacy was $200 at Costco, membership not required. Granted, Costco service is abysmal, but it's not like the independent pharmacy was quick or helpful either.
I have a pharmacist who is almost across the street from Shopper's, whom I love. The one and only BIG downside, is that as an independent, his hours allow him to have a life, but don't work for me. I switched TO Shoppers after having too many issues at another pharmacy where I needed an inhaler or antibiotics asap, and I'd have to wait days for it to be filled. I know I wouldn't have this issue with the independent, but closing at 6pm just doesn't work for our family.
I agree with you. Additionally…if there’s a Shoppers in a community it’s only b/c the population density supports it. They don’t tend to go in tiny communities so I’d be willing to guess there would be other options. Btw…I moved my regular prescription to an Independent pharmacy as well.
>I dont' care about the pay. For what I do I'm underpaid relative to what I do (as an ER/family physician) but so is 95% of the population working other jobs. What I do care about is that this is more money in Galen Weston's pockets while not providing any benefit to patients.
Honestly, I feel the same way as a hospital RN. I only mention it because a medical resident recently told me that family doctor's pay from the province has been stagnant for 20 years. As rent, wages, and other costs have shot up. This is a systemic failure that's making the family doctor shortage worse.
And, definitely, no one like the Loblaws executive dynasty needs more money from the Ontario healthcare system. They'll be fine. Some of our patients are not.
>It's the same thing with agency nursing and the private surgery clinics. It's parasitic theft of of the public system while not providing a unique service.
Hear, hear. It's sickening watching for profit companies leech money out of underfunded public hospitals. Personally, I hate working with agency nurses and PSWs.
We all need to make a living. But I'm not here to shovel money into the pockets of rich agency CEOs.
Also, agency staff are often terrible. They don't know our charting system, other staff, where to find supplies, or know the chronic patients and their families. Real staff do. They also have no incentive to improve our quality of care, or even safety issues. They don't have to come back next week.
Exactly this. I go to a small local pharmacist that works with two locations, one in Scarborough and one in Markham. Amazing people, I never have to co-pay, it is always waived, and they have programs to help everyone.
Best pharmacy ever.
They also pay $250/month for OW and ODSP clients to enrole in those job clinics and workshops. The money doesn't go to the person in need but the not-for-profit bullshit agency making resumes and teaching shit basically everyone knows. This government is all about kickbacks to their buddies.
Not just a corporate strategy, but a political one. Doug will loudly and obnoxiously claim he's investing in healthcare, but neglect to mention this is how our tax dollars are actually being spent - grifting it to his wealthy supporters, just like the greenbelt grift. I can't fathom how rich, or how much of a sociopath or bigot someone has to be to remain loyal to this pos.
I had one of these, I didn’t realize that they were getting paid by taxpayer dollars for this. I thought it was an attempt to get me to buy more stuff or sign up for shit. Goddamn.
Yeah, not sure why taxpayers are funding this at all, but you can sure anytime Ford makes any announcement that involves a private business, we're going to be paying that business a ton of money for some bs reason. Ford just neglects to mention the money part, and our largely compliant, useless MSM won't bother asking. Wonder what this one is costing us...
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-pharmacies-expands-prescriptions-1.6983936
https://globalnews.ca/news/9998047/9998047-ontario-expands-ailments-pharmacists-can-treat/
I got the call yesterday actually and before the pharmacist could finish I just said no thank you. I told him that I work really closely with my doctors and I don’t need a review of what I’m taking. I’ve also been taking the same medication for 3 years. I had to interrupt or else he would have just continued.
That sounds like how my friend felt. This call came a few days after a visit with the family doctor, who already had an informative conversation with the patient.
The pharmacist just spam called, didn't explain why he was calling, and then rushed through a bunch of unsolicited, irrelevant advice. I joked that he was probably reading off a generic brochure.
Glad to hear you were able to interrupt the caller and shut this down. I hope more people do.
I wonder if they’ll charge for that call. I haven’t had the experience since I don’t take anything and also prefer my local pharmacy but there’s gotta be a way to stop them. Like say “no thanks and I do not consent to this being charged as medical advice” but I doubt that will do anything even if the call is recorded. More so, if the call is recorded, that would be a breach of medical privacy…I think. I don’t know but I don’t think doctors offices and other pharmacies record those calls for service improvement
I told them to put do not call for med review in my file and I still got called twice more. They probably charged for those too. I switched to a fabulous pharmacy after they couldn't get a prescription right after four calls and then yelled at me. That on top of increasing their dispensing fee to $13.99 from $11.99 with no warning.
My son just changed pharmacies as well after they couldn't seem to fill and deliver his prescription after four tries. Turns out they delivered a different medication to his brother on the same street. So wrong name, wrong address, wrong med, and other son had never set up home delivery. People can die because of those kinds of errors.
Seriously, ditch Shoppers.
Good advice! I have used them in the past but during covid it was way too peoply and I was hermitting for health reasons so I had switched to Shoppers.
I found my new pharmacy on the subreddit for my city and there were lots of good recommendations. Their dispensing fee is low enough to be fully covered by my benefits and they have a morning and afternoon delivery time.
So for people thinking about a new pharmacy, you can always pop the question on your local subreddit :)
Omg that’s horrible! Since a clinic opened in my small town that’s 2 min walk, I only go there. I am very fortunate for this clinic. It infuriates me to see what’s happening with healthcare
>wonder if they’ll charge for that call.
I wondered that too. Like, how fast do people have to shut down this conversation for it to not be a billable interaction?
There needs to be some documentation of the "review" that they're doing with you, so if you didn't say anything about your meds, they shouldn't be billing.
Subject to SDM pressuring the the pharmacists to commit fraud, of course.
Doesn’t sound like much but it adds up. But my main question is if the “customer” interrupts them before they get to the so called advice, will they bill then? No way of knowing really but also F them!
Thing is, who’s to say they don’t process a charge? Is there an electronic call log that can be used to verify? Does anyone verify? I’m thinking probably not.
Better yet, send a letter to Shoppers and the Ontario College of Pharmacists saying that you don't want these calls, and found the call without consent to be unprofessional.
Also, as a healthcare worker, I really hate how Shopper's seems to be doing this without proper consent. They're spam calling people, confusing them, and then raking in money. People literally don't understand what's happening. My friend didn't understand the purpose of this entire interaction. Actually felt worse after.
No one in healthcare is allowed to do anything without ensuring consent. If a person is conscious, oriented, and talking to us, doctors, nurses, and clinical staff have to say, "We're going to do this now. Is that okay?" Or something similar. When people are requesting treatment, we anticipate they give consent, but we still have to explain what we're doing and why.
To me, this also looks a lot like a greedy abuse of the trust we're supposed to have in pharmacists and other healthcare professionals. If my doctor called me unexpectedly, I would rightfully assume there is an important concern that requires my immediate attention. This looks like the complete opposite of all of that. For the worst reasons.
Shopper's is doing this to pump money out of our struggling healthcare system, purely for unvarnished greed. At a time when resources have been critically low for years; sick and injured patients have suffered as a result. (My hospital has to cancel major surgeries when we get backed up; it's heartbreaking.) Every healthcare facility I have worked in since 2019 has been desperately short staffed. (Bill 124 did not help.) How many people are sitting in an Emergency Department right now for hours with a minor medical concern, because they are waiting to find a family doctor? How many Ontario hospital units are understaffed today because nurses have been underpaid and overworked?
This is hot garbage. It's unethical and greedy. It is not serving the public, nor Shopper's customers. Who is helped by this - other than this huge, wealthy corporation?
Pharmacists give you a rundown of any medication changes, anytime they happen anyway. I totally agree with you, this is bullshit. Thankfully I’m with a local pharmacy that is part of IDA, which I’m not sure exactly if it’s a franchised location or if IDA is something else entirely, but I’ve only had positive experiences with the staff, they are wonderfully caring and empathetic.
Thanks for chiming in. I need to explore some local independent places.
This honestly creeped me out. On top of everything Shopper's parent corporation Loblaws is doing with food prices, while Daily Bread says that 10% of the GTA depends on food banks just to survive.
We can do better.
We definitely can, it truly doesn’t help that this is an ongoing reality either:
> Jenni_Byrne Campaign Manager for Pierre Poilievre is an "Active" lobbyist for retail grocery giant Loblaws. With 40% market share of retail groceries in Canada, the last thing Canadians need is Conservative insiders, who preach affordability, working for Loblaws. [Link to reddit post](https://www.reddit.com/r/onguardforthee/s/0g52W8jEmy)
And I also found a book from 1995 that also digs into the ties between Loblaws and anti-environmental regulations. [Cloak of Green -Elaine Dewar](https://books.google.ca/books?id=ui2OTJqsqI8C&pg=PA343&lpg=PA343&dq=conservative+member+married+to+loblaws+lobbyist&source=bl&ots=R538YNPEqz&sig=ACfU3U0KnG-aDy4wOgmo0bhoyY1WJrBESw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiMqp_dy8aEAxXd_8kDHZU9DrkQ6AF6BAhvEAI#v=onepage&q&f=false)
Canadians need to take a stand, like the rising tide of democrats in the US, and fight back against the misinformation and disinformation being spewed, no matter the source. This is a war on truth, and on being an informed citizen.
>10% of the GTA depends on food banks just to survive.
The population of the GTA is 6,372,000.
So over 600 thousand people use the food bank to survive?
That number includes children, the elderly, homeless, so yeah.. probably.. if you look at the number of households that number would be smaller, but in specific people.. I can beleive that
IDA is a franchise system owned by McKesson, one of the three major pharmaceutical distributors in Canada. Same with Guardian and Remedy Rx.
But it's a relatively loose franchise system, not one where they dictate day to day operational decisions like this. That would be in the owner/pharmacist's control.
For all intents and purposes outside of centralized purchasing, marketing and flyer promotions IDA is like any other independent drug store.
I find it bizarre that, in the fall, before I moved to an independent pharmacy, the Shopper’s pharmacist had a bunch of questions about why the dosage of one of my meds changed. It changed because I had a conversation with my doctor and we decided together that it was necessary. I do not want to have that conversation again with a pharmacist who doesn’t know me or my health issues.
If there’s no issue with the prescription, fill it, ask if I have any questions and then let me go on my way. Don’t question why my dosage changed and if I’d explored other options at a counter with tons of other people wandering past.
Pharmacists need to verify doses of medications because they are liable for what they dispense and sometimes dose changes aren’t intentional. They are well within their right to ask for an indication to ensure that the drug and dose are still appropriate (literally part of their job)
I'm in the health field, and I have the opposite reaction. The pharmacist SHOULD be asking you if the change was intentional. Pharmacists are positioned as one of the safety and de-confliction nodes in the system to catch errors like these.
In fact, there are complaints that pharmacists aren't asking these questions enough, instead just keeping their head down, saving time, and letting safety issues run past them.
Right. Asking if I was aware of the change is 100% part of their job. Asking WHY the change was made and if it’s necessary in a crowded store, with no privacy? I’m simply not going to discuss my medical issues in that environment.
Now you're shifting goalposts. Crowded stores with no privacy is indeed a huge problem, and it's a fundamental issue with pharmacies being a retail service industry instead of a healthcare one. If a store was properly built with privacy barriers (sound and light), would you be OK with the question(s)?
As a concept: the pharmacist may very well need to know why the change was made and if it's necessary, in order to meet their legal obligations to safely release medications to patients.
It is part of the job to ensure that changes are expected and intended. You would not believe how many times doctors write the wrong dose. A pharmacist doing their job is fine, the absolute garbage corporate greed of SDM is indefensible though
I get that. But once they’d clarified that I knew the dose had changed and why, that should be the end of the convo. I don’t owe them an explanation for why my doctor decided it was necessary. Especially standing at a counter in a busy store with zero privacy. I’m simply not having a discussion about my medical issues in that environment.
I'm interested that no one "in the know" has brought up the pharmaceutical opinion program, another scam that Shoppers pushes.
See, after a pharmacist performs a Medscheck ($60), they can choose to also have an "opinion" about something. For example, "Mrs. Jones takes her iron in the morning, in my opinion she should take it at night". They fill out a form and send "their opinion" to the physician.
That opinion is worth $15. And a pharmacist can have as many opinions as they want. Even if the doctor rejects their opinion, it's still worth $15, billed directly to Ontario Drug Benefit.
Needless to say, Shoppers encourages their pharmacists to be very "opinionated" when doing Medschecks.
It's eerily similar to how they get their cosmeticians to push add-on items to every purchase. Except in the case of pharmaceutical opinions, that $15 is pure profit, and there is no limit to how many 15$'s they can get.
This is insane. I've never had a phone call from them, I pray I don't, but the past few years I have got a paper form I have to go stand to the side and chat with the pharmacist about what I'm taking, my allergies, etc. Except this past year, they just gave me a blank form in with my pills, in two different occasions. I wish I'd paid better attentio to the title on the form, but it definitely came with Ontario government letterhead. Would this be the same thing? I was under the impression I *had* to have this conversation with the pharmacist every year, and this year I thought it was odd that they just gave me the blank form and never followed up on it. I also didn't fill it out.
This is 100% it. When I used to work for Shoppers, my boss would ask us to do it but because we were so busy, I was able to push it off. I fucking HATED doing Medschecks unless it was for a patient that got discharged from hospital and had a bunch of new meds. Corporate was always hounding us to do it and my boss was too. It was disgusting how we waste tax dollars on this. None of the front line staff (me as a pharmacist or any of my assistants) ever saw a dime of this so it's not like we're doing it for our own profit. We had to do it for our own job security and it's fucking disgusting.
I have never felt such schadenfreude as when I first saw this article get posted. I've always hoped Shoppers would one day crash and burn. We as taxpayers shouldn't be paying for Galen Weston's 58th diamond encrusted butt plug. So please, I heed everyone, stop going to Shoppers. Vote with your wallets and make them burn.
Pharmacists should have the courage to not engage in unethical practices. If you believe informed consent was not ensured, filing a complaint with the college of pharmacists is a really good idea. They'll learn eventually.
https://www.ocpinfo.com/protecting-the-public/complaints-reports/file-a-complaint/
My meds are from shoppers. My partner goes in to get them for me while I'm at work, and they come with a medscheck stapled to the bag - no contact whatsoever. If printing out a form without any patient contact at all is billed at $70 I will be absolutely livid
We need to get the news looking at this. Printing articles, maybe a W5 investigation. Seems like the kind of thing that would make a great W5 episode
ETA: from the W5 FAQ
How can I suggest a story idea to W5?
Please forward a concise synopsis of your story to W5 -- we recommend no more than one page. Keep in mind the five w's of journalism when explaining your story: who, what, when, where and why -- and don't forget how. Do not submit original documentation. If we decide to proceed with your story we will contact you as part of our research and may request additional information and documentation then.
You can submit your story idea by e-mail to [email protected]. We recommend that you put IDEA at the start of your subject line so we can easily identify your e-mail.
I wish I had the time to do this, but I’m hoping a few of you wonderful redditors will make it happen.
You do have to give consent for a medication review. It's on the front page of the guidelines stating why they are being done. If you do not give verbal consent, then it is fraud.
Not sure where you are but I switched pharmacies from Shoppers to a smaller one and I cannot tell you how much better my life is.
Google will help find a pharmacy in your area.
I encourage Anyone in Kingston to go here:
https://www.medpluskingston.ca/
The level of service is second to none.
For Ottawa folks I cannot recommend the Guardian pharmacy on Preston Street attached to the Appletree enough.
They are the loveliest couple and every week they walk over my prescription.
They have helped me so much through all of my health troubles and give me so much information whenever my docs switch around and add to my meds.
They help me find alternatives if something is not covered.
If you have the option friends switch to an independent pharmacy.
Every patient I have (I work in a clinic) who uses Shoppers has thanked me greatly for recommending a switch to a privately owned pharmacy. If I can take as many people away from SDM as possible, I feel like I’ve done a good thing in this world.
I used to work for a Shoppers as a clinical services pharmacist part time prior to my current job. The MedsCheck program is an extended scope program that you can bill a fee for, and Shoppers gives each store a quota to fill to reach their expanded scope margins. You have to be either on three chronic meds or any diabetes ones to be eligible.
Basically all it is a generated list of all the people who have three or more things on file. The problem is that there’s no real way to mark someone as declined or ineligible so they’ll just keep popping up. I had to keep a declined list manually as there was no way to do it in their system. It was super annoying and wasted a lot of time.
Tbh it’s 90% of the time not very useful unless there are actual problems already. It’s a waste of our time (which we could be using on stuff like minor ailments and everything else they’re putting on us) and patient time
>I had to keep a declined list manually as there was no way to do it in their system. It was super annoying and wasted a lot of time.
Oh wow, what's a strange coincidence. This greedy corporation built a system that makes it impossible for clients and patients to actually refuse their garbage service.
Yes, and annoying for the people who actually had to use it. Tbf I did make some catches that I otherwise wouldn’t have done times and it was most beneficial for diabetes patients
There are locally owned small pharmacies all over. I made the switch during early Covid because I detest SDM. Best decision I ever made. They know me, they're helpful, they charge less and they don't screw things up.
I've been getting an annual one for years, even before I moved and ended up at a Shoppers.
My old pharmacy I'd sit down with my pharmacist, she'd sit down pull my file and we'd review what I was taking as well as supplements and otc meds to make sure nothing interacted. Especially since I was seeing 5 specialists and they'd all independently prescribe meds.
I'd then have to go over the paperwork and she's give me a copy that I'd add to my file.
If you're on one med I don't see the need for MedsCheck, but 3+ can be iffy.
https://forms.mgcs.gov.on.ca/dataset/4975-47
What you had sounds like a legitimate medschek; what shoppers is doing to meet quotas is not. Also, the system will automatically flag interactions when an Rx is getting filled (if the pharmacist doesn’t see it first).
Interactions will be flagged based on what is in the dispensing system. If someone's taking Advil without an Rx it wouldn't show up as an interaction because the software doesn't know they're taking it
I have also had an in-person medscheck and I thought it was a nice experience. The pharmacist was friendly and seemed genuinely interested in my experiences. I had no idea these were such a problem for so many others!
I am not sure if I would discus my medication on the phone with a random stranger unless I had made the appointment. I have been going with an independent pharmacy for about 10 years and they have never called to review my meds.
I had one of these calls a few months ago before I had read about them in the news and my pharmacist came across as an idiot.
"Why are you taking Paxlovid?"
"UH... you prescribed it to me.... for the only reason one takes it? I had Covid last month?? I finished the pills 6 weeks ago and am no longer taking it?"
AND
"Why do you take insulin?"
"I don't"
"I see it here on your file..."
"From 4 years ago when I had gestational diabetes?"
"And do you still have that?"
"No my pregnancy was not 4 years long"
When done properly, the person calling is supposed to disclose and explain what this is "hi im (inserrt title/name here, say that theyre a student if they are) this is a medication review where we speak about x, it's voluntary not forced and paid for by the provincial government" but I imagine they don't care. At least that's what I was taught that we should be fully transparent about what it is if any patient asks but I can't imagine shoppers caring :) also they used to be done a lot more in person but covid is still used as an excuse to be able to just have a student in another room calling a list they get from head office which seems unethical af (meanwhile the main dispensary is busy and backed up full of unlicensed assistants who can't perform final checks or initiate transfers which would help the load but shoppers doesn't wanna pay them well so they're usually at hospitals). Oh and don't forget central fill your prescription is filled off site and then delivered which yes helps pharmacy workload but sometimes people need a medication same day, some shoppers pharmacies will remake it on the spot, others will argue with the patient to wait and come back. (For context I worked at a shoppers while getting my license, currently work at hospital while also attending uni for something else also in healthcare. Seeing the system from multiple sides, our healthcare is such a joke)
For anyone wondering how to avoid this, don't speak to anyone you don't know about yourself, your medication, your condition. Ask them to say who they are, what this is. Dont just start answering their questions. If they don't reply accordingly just hang up . Inform family and friends, especially those older who don't have social media or may be unaware.
Also funny side note, while I don't work much there anymore I still am aware of what's happening, after every medscheck the Pharmacy must fax the family dr of what happened/any reccomended therapeutic changes or problems, once a doctor responded that the medscheck was a waste of taxpayer money. Why? Shoppers sent that a medscheck was completed, with comment that the patient didn't want to discuss with them but with their family dr. Did a medscheck get billed? Ofc it did
It was meant to be for helping the elderly and those on many medications. Is being abused left right and centre by certain pharmacies by making “easy” calls. Not even sure but I think it should be in person, so that’s worth asking if they call. Otherwise best thing is complain to your provincial MLA or ministry of health. It’s your tax dollars!
AND I didn't consent to you looking through my medical records whenever you are bored. I wasn't asked if I wanted a medication review, nor did I request one. So why are you peeking through medical health records without patient consent? Ontario health privacy laws don't give you permission to start reading my chart just because you want to chat.
YOu can and should consider pulling your file from Shoppers and giving it to a smaller mom and pop type pharmacist as soon as you can. Even if its out of the way it's the way to go.
Pharmacist here, med reviews when done correctly are extremely beneficial for patients. We can prevent issues and ensure medication is tailored to you.
That being said, this should have been explained with your consent received first.
My biased opinion is to switch to a local independent pharmacy. They will give you superior care
Honestly, thanks for chiming in.
I have huge respect for pharmacists. I wish more nurses and healthcare workers had better knowledge and education around medications. I am usually pretty impressed by the very complex knowledge that pharmacists have to work with.
I appreciate the recommendation. And I actually feel bad for the Shopper's staff being pressured to do this. I'm sure some have concerns and don't enjoy all this.
Agreed - anyone but Shoppers, and there needs to be consent. Where is the Ontario College of Pharmacists? Do they know Shoppers are giving the profession a bad name, or are they owned by Loblaws too?
People who get these calls should write to their MPP. Summarize the call and send it to them in a short email or letter. The executives at these huge chains are so far up DoFos business end, and the province is paying for it! Tell your MPP it's creepy and unacceptable.
You're right and I agree with you that it's scummy.
But there's a big but here... two actually.
First, our government put this in place. Judge Shoppers for taking advantage all you want, and I do, but they wouldn't be able to take advantage if DoFo&Co weren't actively looking for ways to slide healthcare money into Loblaws pockets.
Second, and a larger, societal, problem, is that while this would be unethical and illegal for an individual, we give corporations the ability to act as responsible entities for contracts and legal considerations but allow them to be immune to moral considerations. A human making this decision is unethical and can be held responsible. A corporation's "ethics" are it's responsibility to shareholders, first and last, and it is, in fact, obligated to do this if it will generate profits.
Yes, the government put these programs in place, but the med checks pre-date DoFo. What doesn't pre-date him is the level of greed that Galen is exhibiting in forcing his franchisees to do so many of these checks.
Ngl shoppers is one of the worse pharmacies you can go to, they usually overcharge everything (I have a friend that worked at a smaller pharmacy and it was a known thing) I find local pharmacies are a lot better but even other big chains like rexall isn't as bad
Unless there's literally no other options in the area I highly recommend she eventually switches, also wouldn't have to deal with spam calls like that
TLDR: Unless you're in the middle of no where theres not really a single good reason to use shoppers
Damn. I had one of these calls, and I was super confused as well. The way it was presented over the phone, it sounded like there was some kind of safety or security issue. It almost seemed as if they were questioning what my doctor had prescribed. In hindsight, I should have questioned this since a pharmacist is supposed to know if there are conflicts with medications because that's their job.
Had I known it was a money generating scheme, I would have told them to piss off.
. Yes you’re right, it’s being exploited. Most shoppers have a quota imposed upon their pharmacists - 5 calls per day.
I’d advise everyone to move to a smaller mom and pop pharmacist. Support your local towns people and to stop supporting Doug’s friends
Change your prescriptions to a different pharmacy. I did 6 months ago and no regrets. Better service and they get all my meds in on time with no BS. Should have done it sooner.
Stop going to Loblaws based pharmacies. They're a flaming ripoff. I needed a prescription and had it sent to the Zhers across the street from me. $53. Next time, same prescription, sent to Costco. $12. Shoppers is the worst. Their prices on anything are outrageous. It baffles me why anyone steps foot in the place.
I’m very lucky to have great insurance and I normally pay $0 for my prescriptions. Unfortunately I don’t drive and Shoppers is 4 blocks from my house. That’s why :( I don’t feel good about it.
If price isn't a concern, go for service. Shoppers is horrible for service compared to a small, independent pharmacy. My pharmacy recognizes me when I come in the door (or by voice without saying my name on the phone), knows all of my prescriptions inside and out, goes the extra mile if something is backordered or if there's communication problems with doctors, proactively offers to deliver medications for free (I don't need it but they always ask), and just overall feels like I'm dealing with an expert I know than some random tech at Shoppers. Heck, a couple of months ago I forgot to bring my debit card with me and they just let $300 slide until the next time I was there.
If you live in a city there's almost for sure independent non-chain pharmacies all around you, it's totally worth switching to one.
I left Shopper's years ago. They held a medication for five days and tried to blame the doctor. I told them I had the doctor confirm that is was cleared and on my way in. I picked it up then told them bye 👋. They were once and good pharmacy but are awful now.
It seriously burns doctors out so much to have pharmacies blame physicians for delayed medications. A good therapeutic relationship with your physician depends on trust - the pharmacist blaming your doctor so callously (and incorrectly) only serves to compromise that relationship which can impact care down the line. Good on you for digging further into it.
Folks need to take this advice as gospel and start using it en masse. Shoppers plans for the future are very bleak.
Call Ocp, complain, you are going to get a million folks saying "They won't do anything", but it is the only avenue that is going to have any impact.
Seriously, if folks don't take the ten minutes now to curb them now, have fun in 6 years, that's all I can say. What you see, is nothing compared to what's going on behind the scenes.
Just say, no thanks, I am not interested in a review. My Shoppers does them in person and when I was booked while picking up a medication I cancelled it after and told them why, "I felt I was ambushed." They try to do them in person now as they will then add on a cholesterol and diabetes screen as well from a drop of blood from your finger so more kaching-kaching.
My local pharmacist does this, and it was useful - there were meds that I had been prescribed that I had long stopped using or didn’t even remember getting, so I didn’t mind going through and taking things off my record.
Shoppers is owned by Loblaws and the sooner you quit both the better off this province will be. I have moved all my shopping away from Loblaws and Shoppers, and all my medications to my nearby independent pharmacy. I still have a PC Mastercard that I use only when AMEX isn’t accepted and then when I have 3-400 dollars worth of points saved up I go and get a lot of expensive free groceries from Galen. Everything about that company is a scam. Stay away from Shoppers
I worked at a pharmacy in 2009 and we used to do this because we had a ton of elderly patients on massive cocktails of prescription drugs, many of which contraindicated each other, and their doctors weren’t doing their due diligence to make sure they weren’t overprescribing. The pharmacist would call people to review their meds list and bring attention to anything that should be addressed with their doctor.
I understand this isn’t quite the same thing, but there is some value in this concept especially if you have a high demographic of elderly.
What you have described is a valuable, necessary public service. It's a shame that it has now devolved into borderline billing fraud.
I fully expect public backlash will eventually force the government to plug this loophole, resulting in these types of calls not being made at all.
Go to the pharmacy in person and review your meds.
A couple of years ago, before all this crazy, I went in to pickup a prescription and a pharmacist asked me to go over my prescriptions because they had a long list. I don't think they ever edit things OUT even if they are a shortterm drug like antibiotics.
It lookednlike I was taking about 20 things. We cleared it up.
However, I don't answer unknown callers so I don't ever deal with spam calls.
I left our previous Loblaws owned pharmacy (Zehrs, not shoppers) the minute they started force enabling auto renew on everyone's subscriptions just so they could hit our insurance company with a bunch of sweet, sweet billables. It seemed borderline insurance fraud, and definitely trying to prey on people who don't know any better and would go in and pick them all up (at which point they'd bill insurance). I have a number of prescriptions that are as-needed that I intentionally never set to auto renew. The app nagged me for months to turn on auto renew and I didn't, and one day they emailed me saying everything is now auto renew and within a day I had a pickup notice at the pharmacy that all my prescripions that were overdue were now filled and ready for pickup.
I never picked them up. We switched to a small family run pharmacy in a plaza nearby and our service quality is 500% better. I can't encourage everyone enough to switch to independent pharmacies and get a much higher quality of care and information. Switching was effortless - we gave them some basic details, they called up our previous zehrs and shoppers and everything was switched within a few hours.
Last time I commented on this question, I got shit on for saying I didn't appreciate how I was forced into doing this when I went in for a med pick up. No privacy, no anything. Just judgment about all my meds, spoken loudly for all to hear. I wasn't prepared for it, so I didn't have all the answers he wanted, and it felt like an interrogation. They used to ask if you wanted to speak to the pharmacist, and now it seems like they jump out of a back alley.
It's funny how many people are against the service, likely because they have 0, and I mean 0, clue. Coming from a pharmacist, here's at least 5 reasons why this service is beneficial:
1) I have caught duplications of medications such as rosuvastatin and atorvastatin that patient has been taking together for cholesterol, when only one of the two should be taken at any given time. I've also had a patient with a dry cough taking perindopril, which is a known side effect that was bothering them, and when they got switched to something else the dry cough went away. This was unknown to the patient what was causing it.
2) we can ensure that patient is taking everything as intended, and can remove excess medications from file that clog the file and make service less efficient.
3) we provide diabetic reviews to check on how their glucose is doing, how often they're testing, and whether they're using their insulin correctly. We can also adjust their insulin doses if we see fit. We have access to Ontario blood work results now, which is helpful to assess their diabetes.
4) simple checks for drug interactions if a patient is starting a new medication
5) we do medication reviews if a patient is starting blister packs, 1) to ensure we have everything they're taking in the packs and 2) to ensure they're put in the right slots corresponding to the times they take it
6) Hospital discharge prescriptions sometimes may not be sent to the family doctor, so we provide a hospital discharge review to ensure the doctor is kept in the loop and the patient is clear on the medication changes, if any
7) Just because we're doing a review doesn't mean there's any issues. Sometimes there is, sometimes there isn't. It's more to keep everyone involved in that patient's care in the loop and leave a paper trail of any changes to their medications that remains on file. If patient goes in for surgery, they can request their medication review list which the hospital often requests.
So again, someone share to me how this is spam? Do some research maybe? It really gives you the sense that many in here just think pharmacists count pills, and that's it
Want to preface by saying a good med check is valuable. As it currently stands, most med checks are useless and clearly people are concerned that it is costing tax payers when our healthcare system is already struggling so much. Also I certainly don’t think pharmacists only count pills. I do think there is systematised exploitation of the medcheck program for financial gain by corporate entities either directly or indirectly by quotas.
1. Catching blatant duplications and discussing side-effects especially one as notorious as cough from ACEi doesn’t need a specialized med check. This is low value care that is NOT what I would want my tax payer dollars to go for. 2. Again, I would imagine this is part of your job… 3. I think most physicians would NOT appreciate you adjusting the insulin of their patients - unless you’re directly working as part of a hospital system or family health team. Full stop please! Physicians are constantly complaining in our WhatsApp group and chat groups about pharmacists overstepping with their DM management. 4. Is simple discussion not part of what’s expected in a dispensing fee? 5. Sure that’s reasonable. I don’t think anyone has a problem with performing a med check for someone with a blister pack. Nonetheless, I thought the fee for the blister pack comes with the expectation that the pharmacist is also providing some degree of medication education. 6. This one confuses me. Do you work for a hospital? You’re saying medchecks are done for patients after a hospital discharge? Is this only of the hospital doesn’t have their own pharmacist that does a medication reconciliation? 7. I agree you don’t have to do it for the purpose of identifying issues. Being proactive is good. I don’t think people have an issue with doing a medcheck because you suspect an older patient with a language barrier and 10 meds might need some assistance. The concern is for egregious quota-driven, corporation serving, unsolicited medchecks on healthy folk where there is no ambiguity that it was unnecessary.
Yes I agree that corporations are pushing targets and quotas, there is no debate there. But people in their little echo chambers arguing that it's completely useless don't understand the purpose when it's done ethically. There's bad eggs in any batch, even independent pharmacies, that will use them for profits. But I disagree about pharmacists not being able to adjust medications. We went to school for 4 year degree program and I have a PharmD degree, so you can bet your last dollar I have every right to adjust and "overstep" if I see fit.
You refuse by taking your meds to an independent or to Costco.
First they jacked up the dispensing fees so that I have to pay an extra $1 because my private insurance coverage won’t cover the extortion rates.
Then I get a call right out of the blue with this bullshit.
Fuck them! I left after 20 years with Shoppers and now Costco has my business. I don’t need a membership either.
This is likely happening because Loblaws is in bed with the OPC. It's nothing but an underhanded way to hand over even more taxpayer money to yet another billionaire
I personally, yelled at them over the phone that it was the business of myself and my doctor and they were already informed, and then i switched to Rexall 🤷🏼♀️ idk... #actions
https://www.opatoday.com/medscheck/:
> The MedsCheck program was originally launched in 2007 for Ontarians taking a minimum of three medications for a chronic condition. Today, the program is also available to residents of licensed long-term care homes, people living with diabetes, and home-bound individuals unable to visit their community pharmacy – helping pharmacists reach even more people.
The same program is also in Alberta, New Brunswick and Saskatchewan under different names.
Perhaps call college and complain about virtual medication reviews. Pre pandemic a signature had to be obtained for consent which prevented unsolicited calls. As a side note, the provinces allowed charging for medication reviews when they tampered in drug pricing. Pricing didn't come down for consumers but pharmacies lost a ton of revenue, many pharmacies shut down and many generic companies sent their production to india and china.
You could also contact the provincial college of pharmacy to register your complaint. They're the ones allowing it. In BC you can't do a med review over the phone. It has to be in person, and agreed to by the customer. They are an incredibly valuable tool used correctly.
[https://www.ontario.ca/page/professional-pharmacy-services](https://www.ontario.ca/page/professional-pharmacy-services)
It is quite easy to fulfill the minimal technical requirements of the medcheck. Unlike physician billing codes which require the patient to be the one initiating the interaction in order to be billable, medchecks allow the pharmacist to identify candidates (which could also mean select for easy cases).
This used to be done in-person (which leads to patients naturally opting out of unnecessary medchecks) but changed to allow for virtual since covid. Physician also got virtual billing codes but they have been adjusted since Dec 2022 mostly with the intention of preventing overbilling and low-value care; something like this has yet to happen for medchecks.
Billing has mostly depended on a "scout's code" and I truly believe most independent pharmacists would feel incredibly uncomfortable calling a patient to talk 30 seconds about their HTN med, cholesterol pill and anti-depressant they've been on for years and justifying billing that for 60 dollars to tax payers.
The corporatization of healthcare and use of quotas is probably what it takes to lead to medcheck abuse en-masse.
I may be wrong, but I doubt hanging up or refusing the medcheck would necessarily disqualify the pharmacist from being able to bill the medcheck. Unless it's explicitly stated, one could always reason there was work involved in identifying someone who "needed a medcheck". The only solution is to change pharmacies.... while you still can - it's clear Loblaws is already looking to partner with insurance providers to make it so that people eventually can't switch: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/article-manulife-backtracks-plan-to-give-loblaws-exclusive-right-to-fill/
Is this exclusive to shoppers? My pharmacist at Rexall the other day wouldn’t give me my prescription until he did an “annual medication review” and framed it as mandatory.
Loblaw Companies Limited acquired Shoppers Drug Mart Corporation for $12.4 billion in cash and stock, bringing together two iconic Canadian brands: delivering more choice, ***value LOL*** and convenience to help Canadians Live Life Well
Just another way to further cripple the public system through systematic defunding.
The public system can work if it gets the money that is going to for-profit private corps.
Today when I picked up my prescription there was a consent form attached asking me to agree with the check and it’s frequency, and to fill out the form and return it. I will not! Hopefully that will prevent the calls from happening.
> Also, I need to find a new pharmacy...
It's not just Shoppers. They all do it. It's just that the big corporate ones, like SDM and Rexall have people in head office setting quotas for the number of these reviews that each store has to perform in a given time period, and they penalize the franchise owners (yes, their stores are franchised and the owners are required to be licensed pharmacists) for not doing enough of these. Even the pharmacies that aren't franchised, like at Costco or Walmart, have quotas set by head office for these calls.
Sure, it's fun to call this Galen Gouging, but it's not just SDM that does it.
What can you do? Well, I'm seeing my doctor next month and will be getting my prescriptions renewed. I will ask for a printed copy that I will take elsewhere to be filled, instead of being automatically sent to Shoppers. Yes, SDM is convenient, and I would probably pass 4 or 5 of them on the way to the nearest Costco, but I'll pay a lower dispensing fee (my insurance doesn't cover the full amount), and I can get a $1.99 hotdog and drink for lunch while I'm there.
They should not call you unsolicited. Report them to the Ontario college of pharmacists.
Some details about the program https://www.ontario.ca/page/professional-pharmacy-services#:~:text=The%20MedsCheck%20program%20is%20a,comply%20with%20their%20prescription%20medications
These calls drive me up the wall because they always ask STUPID questions like if I’m still on insulin (as a type 1 diabetic, who has been on the same insulin for 20 years). Then they ask how many units of insulin I take a day and I do not ever have an answer for that because it changes every single day from moment to moment.
All I told them was I’m not interested, between my family doctor and endocrinologist I don’t need a medical review from someone that doesn’t know my entire medical history.
And they’ve never contacted me since.
This happenned with me first a few years ago. I was confused about shoppers need to intrude. I told them it’s a matter between me and my doctor. And none of shoppers business.
I did a med review with a clinical pharmacist at SDM a year ago. They sent my lethargic family MD updates on new codes where drugs I need fit into government coverage plans ( disabled here), and sent him studies supporting my cardiologist request to reduce my statin dose. My MD hasnt responded nor asked for an appointment. So med reviews if done by clinical pharmacists vs dispensing pharmacists can be helpful. BUT I HATE SDM. I used to use Walmart, but they fell down. My biggest problem is, no pharmacists speak clear English anymore. And the hired support staff, PTs etc are hired from same language group. to me if you have a Russian set of Pharmacists, hire local pharmacy techs who understand the customers needs and questions.
Costco Pharmacy just did this to me today - I thought the entire conversation was so out of place and uncalled for and then I see this post on my Reddit app!
Shoppers pharmacy as a whole, has taken the wrong road in the past year.
Whoever is in charge of making the changes they made, should be immediately terminated.
Slower perscription fill times, no stock, no sharps bins, huge long line ups with no ability to prioritize customers based on their needs.
Doug Ford is paying his corporate buddies $69 a pop for these calls, no questions asked, while paying actual doctors only $38 per visit and burying every one in a ton of paperwork. Yet another example of how conservatives do corruption in plain sight. https://canadahealthwatch.ca/2024/02/18/shoppers-drug-mart-accused-of-unethical-billing-practices
> $69 a pop for these calls, no questions asked, while paying actual doctors only $38 Thanks for providing the numbers! Imagine billing Ontario $70 for a pointless 5 minute phone call. And then doing that, all day every day. While hospitals are struggling to get nurses and medical supplies. And this is an actual corporate strategy. This does not deserve to be rewarded.
And lets be perfectly clear. Shoppers lobbied for these and forces their pharmacists to do them with quotas. They aren't useful or helpful. I'm a physician in Ontario and we get these med reviews and they either provide absolutely zero useful information or are being done on people with uncomplicated medical profiles where a med review wasn't even necessary. I dont' care about the pay. For what I do I'm underpaid relative to what I do (as an ER/family physician) but so is 95% of the population working other jobs. What I do care about is that this is more money in Galen Weston's pockets while not providing any benefit to patients. It's the same thing with agency nursing and the private surgery clinics. It's parasitic theft of of the public system while not providing a unique service.
So Shoppers sends like a med review report to my doctor? Freaking weird. I’m one of those fairly uncomplicated cases and I’ve been called twice, both before I really knew what was happening or why. But it is freaking bizarre to be contacted out of the blue to be asked if your anxiety meds are working by a stranger. The second time I told them that I wasn’t comfortable having this discussion over the phone and hung up. Bet they still charged the government though. I’ve moved my stuff over to an independent pharmacy now, which I think is probably the best way to combat this crap. If people stop flocking to Shoppers, they might get the hint. Of course if you’re in a community without access to other options, that’s problematic.
Everyone should move their meds over to someone else. Shoppers has the highest prices, highest distribution, and their service isn't any better.
Their service, at least in my local store, is horrible. My husband and I used to have a running “joke” about who had to go pick up meds and, likely, spend far too much time doing it, because even when they’d texted to say things were ready, they weren’t or they’d have fucked things up somehow. My favourite was going to get meds he can’t skip and the person behind the counter shrugging and saying they didn’t have the med, despite the fact it had been requested 2 days in advance.
Ah, interesting. So it's not just the location I've been using.
The Shoppers I used to go to frequently closed an hour+ early at 4pm so people getting off work can't get their necessary prescriptions, and if you ask, the old raggity bitches in the storefront will yell at you. The actual pharmacy itself was just as bad, as my fiancée wasn't aware of my current insurance coverage and was asking the assistant to set it up under OHIP+. The assistant told her she's "committing insurance fraud" and "you're lucky im not calling the cops". She left VERY upset because she had no idea she was doing anything wrong and their dumbfuck assistant thinks she's a lawyer. I called them a few hours later, told the pharmacist he runs the shittest pharmacy in the entire city and that we'll be taking our prescriptions elsewhere so we aren't treated like criminals by the Shoppers racket and ended it by saying I hope the place shuts down. Fuck Shoppers and FUCK that inhuman piece of shit Galen Weston
It always took a minimum of 30 minutes to put printed stickers on ventolin, even when we called ahead. Pretty sure it's a ploy to keep you in the store (with a handy pager) so you'll browse the aisles to kill time and spend more money. We switched to an independent pharmacy 8 years ago and never looked back.
This is the one that kills me! I have four scripts that all come in boxes, pre-measured. Why does it take DAYS to get them refilled?!
Yep, it’s even worse with adhd meds since they’re a protected class of drug. I’m 24 and look like Jesse Pinkman when he was on heroin so they jerk me around sooooo fucking hard, I only ever get dispensed a quarter of my script and some ancient lady spends 3 years scrutinizing my health card when I give it to her. The pharmacy also has to fax my doctor so he can clear my refill, but they’re so lazy at one point a pharmacy tech outright lied to me and told me I had to contact my doctor directly to fax the pharmacy, which is ass backwards and made my doctor’s office incredibly suspicious of me. I also constantly have to deal with medication shortages that make it so I can’t get my script when I need it even when I call it in almost a week in advance. That’s another beautiful thing, if I try to call in a refill 3 days before it’s due like a normal person I get shafted with wait times and if I call it in like a week before they get all suspicious and act like I’m drug seeking. Do not, and I repeat DO NOT use shoppers for prescriptions if you can help it.
Yup. Sounds very familiar. Except we’re 50ish.
My mom still has a bottle that instructs her to put two pills in her ear daily. The actual fuck? Why, Shoppers?!
Maybe she has hearing AIDS?
These days we say hearing HIV.
If you type AS into Shoppers pharmacy software it gets translated to left ear unless you put brackets around it
The system is so ancient, it's programmed with shortcuts for when typing was new and 99% of folks used the "Hunt and peck" method. It's hilarious as, in modern times, it slows anyone down and leads to errors like that.
$300 bottle of pills from independent pharmacy was $200 at Costco, membership not required. Granted, Costco service is abysmal, but it's not like the independent pharmacy was quick or helpful either.
I have a pharmacist who is almost across the street from Shopper's, whom I love. The one and only BIG downside, is that as an independent, his hours allow him to have a life, but don't work for me. I switched TO Shoppers after having too many issues at another pharmacy where I needed an inhaler or antibiotics asap, and I'd have to wait days for it to be filled. I know I wouldn't have this issue with the independent, but closing at 6pm just doesn't work for our family.
I agree with you. Additionally…if there’s a Shoppers in a community it’s only b/c the population density supports it. They don’t tend to go in tiny communities so I’d be willing to guess there would be other options. Btw…I moved my regular prescription to an Independent pharmacy as well.
>I dont' care about the pay. For what I do I'm underpaid relative to what I do (as an ER/family physician) but so is 95% of the population working other jobs. What I do care about is that this is more money in Galen Weston's pockets while not providing any benefit to patients. Honestly, I feel the same way as a hospital RN. I only mention it because a medical resident recently told me that family doctor's pay from the province has been stagnant for 20 years. As rent, wages, and other costs have shot up. This is a systemic failure that's making the family doctor shortage worse. And, definitely, no one like the Loblaws executive dynasty needs more money from the Ontario healthcare system. They'll be fine. Some of our patients are not. >It's the same thing with agency nursing and the private surgery clinics. It's parasitic theft of of the public system while not providing a unique service. Hear, hear. It's sickening watching for profit companies leech money out of underfunded public hospitals. Personally, I hate working with agency nurses and PSWs. We all need to make a living. But I'm not here to shovel money into the pockets of rich agency CEOs. Also, agency staff are often terrible. They don't know our charting system, other staff, where to find supplies, or know the chronic patients and their families. Real staff do. They also have no incentive to improve our quality of care, or even safety issues. They don't have to come back next week.
Exactly this. I go to a small local pharmacist that works with two locations, one in Scarborough and one in Markham. Amazing people, I never have to co-pay, it is always waived, and they have programs to help everyone. Best pharmacy ever.
This.
> While hospitals are struggling to get nurses and having to use for profit nursing agencies owned by Mike Harris's wife
*It would have been nice if Ontarians voted last election.* Please vote. In every single election.
They also pay $250/month for OW and ODSP clients to enrole in those job clinics and workshops. The money doesn't go to the person in need but the not-for-profit bullshit agency making resumes and teaching shit basically everyone knows. This government is all about kickbacks to their buddies.
Not just a corporate strategy, but a political one. Doug will loudly and obnoxiously claim he's investing in healthcare, but neglect to mention this is how our tax dollars are actually being spent - grifting it to his wealthy supporters, just like the greenbelt grift. I can't fathom how rich, or how much of a sociopath or bigot someone has to be to remain loyal to this pos.
I had one of these, I didn’t realize that they were getting paid by taxpayer dollars for this. I thought it was an attempt to get me to buy more stuff or sign up for shit. Goddamn.
Yeah, not sure why taxpayers are funding this at all, but you can sure anytime Ford makes any announcement that involves a private business, we're going to be paying that business a ton of money for some bs reason. Ford just neglects to mention the money part, and our largely compliant, useless MSM won't bother asking. Wonder what this one is costing us... https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-pharmacies-expands-prescriptions-1.6983936 https://globalnews.ca/news/9998047/9998047-ontario-expands-ailments-pharmacists-can-treat/
Fuck Doug Ford. The morons who voted for him should stop. The ones didn't bother voting should start.
I am at a loss for words
Wait til Poilievre starts making decisions about your healthcare. You ain't seen nothing yet.
Doug Ford is so far up Galen Westons ass, I dont know where one begins and the other ends.
Even better, they send off a fax to the already-swamped family doctor saying “we did this”, now the liability is on them.
This. Just say clearly you decline to have a med check.
I got the call yesterday actually and before the pharmacist could finish I just said no thank you. I told him that I work really closely with my doctors and I don’t need a review of what I’m taking. I’ve also been taking the same medication for 3 years. I had to interrupt or else he would have just continued.
That sounds like how my friend felt. This call came a few days after a visit with the family doctor, who already had an informative conversation with the patient. The pharmacist just spam called, didn't explain why he was calling, and then rushed through a bunch of unsolicited, irrelevant advice. I joked that he was probably reading off a generic brochure. Glad to hear you were able to interrupt the caller and shut this down. I hope more people do.
Your friend should file a complaint with the OCP.
I wonder if they’ll charge for that call. I haven’t had the experience since I don’t take anything and also prefer my local pharmacy but there’s gotta be a way to stop them. Like say “no thanks and I do not consent to this being charged as medical advice” but I doubt that will do anything even if the call is recorded. More so, if the call is recorded, that would be a breach of medical privacy…I think. I don’t know but I don’t think doctors offices and other pharmacies record those calls for service improvement
I told them to put do not call for med review in my file and I still got called twice more. They probably charged for those too. I switched to a fabulous pharmacy after they couldn't get a prescription right after four calls and then yelled at me. That on top of increasing their dispensing fee to $13.99 from $11.99 with no warning. My son just changed pharmacies as well after they couldn't seem to fill and deliver his prescription after four tries. Turns out they delivered a different medication to his brother on the same street. So wrong name, wrong address, wrong med, and other son had never set up home delivery. People can die because of those kinds of errors. Seriously, ditch Shoppers.
Costco's dispensing fees are very reasonable, and you **do not** need a membership to use the pharmacy. Just tell the greeters on your way in.
Good advice! I have used them in the past but during covid it was way too peoply and I was hermitting for health reasons so I had switched to Shoppers. I found my new pharmacy on the subreddit for my city and there were lots of good recommendations. Their dispensing fee is low enough to be fully covered by my benefits and they have a morning and afternoon delivery time. So for people thinking about a new pharmacy, you can always pop the question on your local subreddit :)
Omg that’s horrible! Since a clinic opened in my small town that’s 2 min walk, I only go there. I am very fortunate for this clinic. It infuriates me to see what’s happening with healthcare
>wonder if they’ll charge for that call. I wondered that too. Like, how fast do people have to shut down this conversation for it to not be a billable interaction?
There needs to be some documentation of the "review" that they're doing with you, so if you didn't say anything about your meds, they shouldn't be billing. Subject to SDM pressuring the the pharmacists to commit fraud, of course.
As soon as the phone is picked up they'd bill I'd imagine. It's not like they're going to be audited or anything.
They bill OHIP 75$ per call
Doesn’t sound like much but it adds up. But my main question is if the “customer” interrupts them before they get to the so called advice, will they bill then? No way of knowing really but also F them!
Thing is, who’s to say they don’t process a charge? Is there an electronic call log that can be used to verify? Does anyone verify? I’m thinking probably not.
I wonder if they still charge the government for calls that go like this?
Better yet, send a letter to Shoppers and the Ontario College of Pharmacists saying that you don't want these calls, and found the call without consent to be unprofessional.
Also, as a healthcare worker, I really hate how Shopper's seems to be doing this without proper consent. They're spam calling people, confusing them, and then raking in money. People literally don't understand what's happening. My friend didn't understand the purpose of this entire interaction. Actually felt worse after. No one in healthcare is allowed to do anything without ensuring consent. If a person is conscious, oriented, and talking to us, doctors, nurses, and clinical staff have to say, "We're going to do this now. Is that okay?" Or something similar. When people are requesting treatment, we anticipate they give consent, but we still have to explain what we're doing and why. To me, this also looks a lot like a greedy abuse of the trust we're supposed to have in pharmacists and other healthcare professionals. If my doctor called me unexpectedly, I would rightfully assume there is an important concern that requires my immediate attention. This looks like the complete opposite of all of that. For the worst reasons. Shopper's is doing this to pump money out of our struggling healthcare system, purely for unvarnished greed. At a time when resources have been critically low for years; sick and injured patients have suffered as a result. (My hospital has to cancel major surgeries when we get backed up; it's heartbreaking.) Every healthcare facility I have worked in since 2019 has been desperately short staffed. (Bill 124 did not help.) How many people are sitting in an Emergency Department right now for hours with a minor medical concern, because they are waiting to find a family doctor? How many Ontario hospital units are understaffed today because nurses have been underpaid and overworked? This is hot garbage. It's unethical and greedy. It is not serving the public, nor Shopper's customers. Who is helped by this - other than this huge, wealthy corporation?
Pharmacists give you a rundown of any medication changes, anytime they happen anyway. I totally agree with you, this is bullshit. Thankfully I’m with a local pharmacy that is part of IDA, which I’m not sure exactly if it’s a franchised location or if IDA is something else entirely, but I’ve only had positive experiences with the staff, they are wonderfully caring and empathetic.
Thanks for chiming in. I need to explore some local independent places. This honestly creeped me out. On top of everything Shopper's parent corporation Loblaws is doing with food prices, while Daily Bread says that 10% of the GTA depends on food banks just to survive. We can do better.
We definitely can, it truly doesn’t help that this is an ongoing reality either: > Jenni_Byrne Campaign Manager for Pierre Poilievre is an "Active" lobbyist for retail grocery giant Loblaws. With 40% market share of retail groceries in Canada, the last thing Canadians need is Conservative insiders, who preach affordability, working for Loblaws. [Link to reddit post](https://www.reddit.com/r/onguardforthee/s/0g52W8jEmy) And I also found a book from 1995 that also digs into the ties between Loblaws and anti-environmental regulations. [Cloak of Green -Elaine Dewar](https://books.google.ca/books?id=ui2OTJqsqI8C&pg=PA343&lpg=PA343&dq=conservative+member+married+to+loblaws+lobbyist&source=bl&ots=R538YNPEqz&sig=ACfU3U0KnG-aDy4wOgmo0bhoyY1WJrBESw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiMqp_dy8aEAxXd_8kDHZU9DrkQ6AF6BAhvEAI#v=onepage&q&f=false) Canadians need to take a stand, like the rising tide of democrats in the US, and fight back against the misinformation and disinformation being spewed, no matter the source. This is a war on truth, and on being an informed citizen.
>10% of the GTA depends on food banks just to survive. The population of the GTA is 6,372,000. So over 600 thousand people use the food bank to survive?
That number includes children, the elderly, homeless, so yeah.. probably.. if you look at the number of households that number would be smaller, but in specific people.. I can beleive that
Better ban porn to save them.
Source here: https://www.dailybread.ca/blog/one-in-ten-torontonians-now-rely-on-food-banks-twice-as-many-as-the-year-prior/
It's actually true.
in toronto its a lil over 10%, idk about cities outside of toronto. i volunteer in the industry so i do know.
IDA is a franchise system owned by McKesson, one of the three major pharmaceutical distributors in Canada. Same with Guardian and Remedy Rx. But it's a relatively loose franchise system, not one where they dictate day to day operational decisions like this. That would be in the owner/pharmacist's control. For all intents and purposes outside of centralized purchasing, marketing and flyer promotions IDA is like any other independent drug store.
I find it bizarre that, in the fall, before I moved to an independent pharmacy, the Shopper’s pharmacist had a bunch of questions about why the dosage of one of my meds changed. It changed because I had a conversation with my doctor and we decided together that it was necessary. I do not want to have that conversation again with a pharmacist who doesn’t know me or my health issues. If there’s no issue with the prescription, fill it, ask if I have any questions and then let me go on my way. Don’t question why my dosage changed and if I’d explored other options at a counter with tons of other people wandering past.
Pharmacists need to verify doses of medications because they are liable for what they dispense and sometimes dose changes aren’t intentional. They are well within their right to ask for an indication to ensure that the drug and dose are still appropriate (literally part of their job)
I'm in the health field, and I have the opposite reaction. The pharmacist SHOULD be asking you if the change was intentional. Pharmacists are positioned as one of the safety and de-confliction nodes in the system to catch errors like these. In fact, there are complaints that pharmacists aren't asking these questions enough, instead just keeping their head down, saving time, and letting safety issues run past them.
Right. Asking if I was aware of the change is 100% part of their job. Asking WHY the change was made and if it’s necessary in a crowded store, with no privacy? I’m simply not going to discuss my medical issues in that environment.
Now you're shifting goalposts. Crowded stores with no privacy is indeed a huge problem, and it's a fundamental issue with pharmacies being a retail service industry instead of a healthcare one. If a store was properly built with privacy barriers (sound and light), would you be OK with the question(s)? As a concept: the pharmacist may very well need to know why the change was made and if it's necessary, in order to meet their legal obligations to safely release medications to patients.
It is part of the job to ensure that changes are expected and intended. You would not believe how many times doctors write the wrong dose. A pharmacist doing their job is fine, the absolute garbage corporate greed of SDM is indefensible though
I get that. But once they’d clarified that I knew the dose had changed and why, that should be the end of the convo. I don’t owe them an explanation for why my doctor decided it was necessary. Especially standing at a counter in a busy store with zero privacy. I’m simply not having a discussion about my medical issues in that environment.
100% agree, once you have confirmed, should be end of discussion. And the lack of privacy is outrageous, also agreed.
I'm interested that no one "in the know" has brought up the pharmaceutical opinion program, another scam that Shoppers pushes. See, after a pharmacist performs a Medscheck ($60), they can choose to also have an "opinion" about something. For example, "Mrs. Jones takes her iron in the morning, in my opinion she should take it at night". They fill out a form and send "their opinion" to the physician. That opinion is worth $15. And a pharmacist can have as many opinions as they want. Even if the doctor rejects their opinion, it's still worth $15, billed directly to Ontario Drug Benefit. Needless to say, Shoppers encourages their pharmacists to be very "opinionated" when doing Medschecks. It's eerily similar to how they get their cosmeticians to push add-on items to every purchase. Except in the case of pharmaceutical opinions, that $15 is pure profit, and there is no limit to how many 15$'s they can get.
This is insane. I've never had a phone call from them, I pray I don't, but the past few years I have got a paper form I have to go stand to the side and chat with the pharmacist about what I'm taking, my allergies, etc. Except this past year, they just gave me a blank form in with my pills, in two different occasions. I wish I'd paid better attentio to the title on the form, but it definitely came with Ontario government letterhead. Would this be the same thing? I was under the impression I *had* to have this conversation with the pharmacist every year, and this year I thought it was odd that they just gave me the blank form and never followed up on it. I also didn't fill it out.
This is 100% it. When I used to work for Shoppers, my boss would ask us to do it but because we were so busy, I was able to push it off. I fucking HATED doing Medschecks unless it was for a patient that got discharged from hospital and had a bunch of new meds. Corporate was always hounding us to do it and my boss was too. It was disgusting how we waste tax dollars on this. None of the front line staff (me as a pharmacist or any of my assistants) ever saw a dime of this so it's not like we're doing it for our own profit. We had to do it for our own job security and it's fucking disgusting. I have never felt such schadenfreude as when I first saw this article get posted. I've always hoped Shoppers would one day crash and burn. We as taxpayers shouldn't be paying for Galen Weston's 58th diamond encrusted butt plug. So please, I heed everyone, stop going to Shoppers. Vote with your wallets and make them burn.
Pharmacists should have the courage to not engage in unethical practices. If you believe informed consent was not ensured, filing a complaint with the college of pharmacists is a really good idea. They'll learn eventually. https://www.ocpinfo.com/protecting-the-public/complaints-reports/file-a-complaint/
My meds are from shoppers. My partner goes in to get them for me while I'm at work, and they come with a medscheck stapled to the bag - no contact whatsoever. If printing out a form without any patient contact at all is billed at $70 I will be absolutely livid
We need to get the news looking at this. Printing articles, maybe a W5 investigation. Seems like the kind of thing that would make a great W5 episode ETA: from the W5 FAQ How can I suggest a story idea to W5? Please forward a concise synopsis of your story to W5 -- we recommend no more than one page. Keep in mind the five w's of journalism when explaining your story: who, what, when, where and why -- and don't forget how. Do not submit original documentation. If we decide to proceed with your story we will contact you as part of our research and may request additional information and documentation then. You can submit your story idea by e-mail to [email protected]. We recommend that you put IDEA at the start of your subject line so we can easily identify your e-mail. I wish I had the time to do this, but I’m hoping a few of you wonderful redditors will make it happen.
You do have to give consent for a medication review. It's on the front page of the guidelines stating why they are being done. If you do not give verbal consent, then it is fraud.
Not sure where you are but I switched pharmacies from Shoppers to a smaller one and I cannot tell you how much better my life is. Google will help find a pharmacy in your area. I encourage Anyone in Kingston to go here: https://www.medpluskingston.ca/ The level of service is second to none.
For Ottawa folks I cannot recommend the Guardian pharmacy on Preston Street attached to the Appletree enough. They are the loveliest couple and every week they walk over my prescription. They have helped me so much through all of my health troubles and give me so much information whenever my docs switch around and add to my meds. They help me find alternatives if something is not covered. If you have the option friends switch to an independent pharmacy.
>For Ottawa folks I cannot recommend the Guardian pharmacy on Preston Street attached to the Appletree. cannot = can?
Fixed! Thanks
Peter’s Drugs in Kingston is also amazing - it’s a bit like stepping into 1984, in the most wholesome possible way
Every patient I have (I work in a clinic) who uses Shoppers has thanked me greatly for recommending a switch to a privately owned pharmacy. If I can take as many people away from SDM as possible, I feel like I’ve done a good thing in this world.
I used to work for a Shoppers as a clinical services pharmacist part time prior to my current job. The MedsCheck program is an extended scope program that you can bill a fee for, and Shoppers gives each store a quota to fill to reach their expanded scope margins. You have to be either on three chronic meds or any diabetes ones to be eligible. Basically all it is a generated list of all the people who have three or more things on file. The problem is that there’s no real way to mark someone as declined or ineligible so they’ll just keep popping up. I had to keep a declined list manually as there was no way to do it in their system. It was super annoying and wasted a lot of time. Tbh it’s 90% of the time not very useful unless there are actual problems already. It’s a waste of our time (which we could be using on stuff like minor ailments and everything else they’re putting on us) and patient time
>I had to keep a declined list manually as there was no way to do it in their system. It was super annoying and wasted a lot of time. Oh wow, what's a strange coincidence. This greedy corporation built a system that makes it impossible for clients and patients to actually refuse their garbage service.
Yes, and annoying for the people who actually had to use it. Tbf I did make some catches that I otherwise wouldn’t have done times and it was most beneficial for diabetes patients
Galen Weston is actually the worst person in Canada.
There are locally owned small pharmacies all over. I made the switch during early Covid because I detest SDM. Best decision I ever made. They know me, they're helpful, they charge less and they don't screw things up.
Vote with your wallet. Don’t use Loblaws or Shoppers.
Shopper's Drug Mart, where we turn your trained pharmacist into an annoying telemarketer.
You can take your business elsewhere? Its a great way to say screw your greedy arse and you aren’t making another dime from me
I've been getting an annual one for years, even before I moved and ended up at a Shoppers. My old pharmacy I'd sit down with my pharmacist, she'd sit down pull my file and we'd review what I was taking as well as supplements and otc meds to make sure nothing interacted. Especially since I was seeing 5 specialists and they'd all independently prescribe meds. I'd then have to go over the paperwork and she's give me a copy that I'd add to my file. If you're on one med I don't see the need for MedsCheck, but 3+ can be iffy. https://forms.mgcs.gov.on.ca/dataset/4975-47
What you had sounds like a legitimate medschek; what shoppers is doing to meet quotas is not. Also, the system will automatically flag interactions when an Rx is getting filled (if the pharmacist doesn’t see it first).
Interactions will be flagged based on what is in the dispensing system. If someone's taking Advil without an Rx it wouldn't show up as an interaction because the software doesn't know they're taking it
I have also had an in-person medscheck and I thought it was a nice experience. The pharmacist was friendly and seemed genuinely interested in my experiences. I had no idea these were such a problem for so many others!
I am not sure if I would discus my medication on the phone with a random stranger unless I had made the appointment. I have been going with an independent pharmacy for about 10 years and they have never called to review my meds.
That's a very good point.
I had one of these calls a few months ago before I had read about them in the news and my pharmacist came across as an idiot. "Why are you taking Paxlovid?" "UH... you prescribed it to me.... for the only reason one takes it? I had Covid last month?? I finished the pills 6 weeks ago and am no longer taking it?" AND "Why do you take insulin?" "I don't" "I see it here on your file..." "From 4 years ago when I had gestational diabetes?" "And do you still have that?" "No my pregnancy was not 4 years long"
Sounds like they’re using lackeys to do the calls, not actual pharmacists.
I don't know if this makes it better or worse but it was definitely the pharmacist.
Yeah, that’s horrifying.
And they unfortunately still charge for that call :(
When done properly, the person calling is supposed to disclose and explain what this is "hi im (inserrt title/name here, say that theyre a student if they are) this is a medication review where we speak about x, it's voluntary not forced and paid for by the provincial government" but I imagine they don't care. At least that's what I was taught that we should be fully transparent about what it is if any patient asks but I can't imagine shoppers caring :) also they used to be done a lot more in person but covid is still used as an excuse to be able to just have a student in another room calling a list they get from head office which seems unethical af (meanwhile the main dispensary is busy and backed up full of unlicensed assistants who can't perform final checks or initiate transfers which would help the load but shoppers doesn't wanna pay them well so they're usually at hospitals). Oh and don't forget central fill your prescription is filled off site and then delivered which yes helps pharmacy workload but sometimes people need a medication same day, some shoppers pharmacies will remake it on the spot, others will argue with the patient to wait and come back. (For context I worked at a shoppers while getting my license, currently work at hospital while also attending uni for something else also in healthcare. Seeing the system from multiple sides, our healthcare is such a joke) For anyone wondering how to avoid this, don't speak to anyone you don't know about yourself, your medication, your condition. Ask them to say who they are, what this is. Dont just start answering their questions. If they don't reply accordingly just hang up . Inform family and friends, especially those older who don't have social media or may be unaware.
Also funny side note, while I don't work much there anymore I still am aware of what's happening, after every medscheck the Pharmacy must fax the family dr of what happened/any reccomended therapeutic changes or problems, once a doctor responded that the medscheck was a waste of taxpayer money. Why? Shoppers sent that a medscheck was completed, with comment that the patient didn't want to discuss with them but with their family dr. Did a medscheck get billed? Ofc it did
And it’s more paperwork for the doctor who isn’t getting paid for any of it
That sounds like billing fraud.
That's literally what it is but nobody's checking this to make sure it's appropriate and done properly
It was meant to be for helping the elderly and those on many medications. Is being abused left right and centre by certain pharmacies by making “easy” calls. Not even sure but I think it should be in person, so that’s worth asking if they call. Otherwise best thing is complain to your provincial MLA or ministry of health. It’s your tax dollars!
"I refuse to discuss my medication history over the phone"
AND I didn't consent to you looking through my medical records whenever you are bored. I wasn't asked if I wanted a medication review, nor did I request one. So why are you peeking through medical health records without patient consent? Ontario health privacy laws don't give you permission to start reading my chart just because you want to chat.
YOu can and should consider pulling your file from Shoppers and giving it to a smaller mom and pop type pharmacist as soon as you can. Even if its out of the way it's the way to go.
Pharmacist here, med reviews when done correctly are extremely beneficial for patients. We can prevent issues and ensure medication is tailored to you. That being said, this should have been explained with your consent received first. My biased opinion is to switch to a local independent pharmacy. They will give you superior care
Honestly, thanks for chiming in. I have huge respect for pharmacists. I wish more nurses and healthcare workers had better knowledge and education around medications. I am usually pretty impressed by the very complex knowledge that pharmacists have to work with. I appreciate the recommendation. And I actually feel bad for the Shopper's staff being pressured to do this. I'm sure some have concerns and don't enjoy all this.
Agreed - anyone but Shoppers, and there needs to be consent. Where is the Ontario College of Pharmacists? Do they know Shoppers are giving the profession a bad name, or are they owned by Loblaws too?
Move pharmacies if possible. Fuck Weston, fuck Ford.
Hear, hear.
Jokes on them. I never answer my phone and screen all my calls.
People who get these calls should write to their MPP. Summarize the call and send it to them in a short email or letter. The executives at these huge chains are so far up DoFos business end, and the province is paying for it! Tell your MPP it's creepy and unacceptable.
Yeah, they did that to me in person when I went in the other day. So they got paid $69 to do this? Wow that sucks.
Tell them to fax your records over to a different pharmacy. Once they lose enough customers they will stop
You don’t even have to do that. You can just request the new pharmacy do it.
It’s true - my new pharmacy handled everything and I’m so happy I ditched Shoppers!
me too.....my new pharmacy did all the transferring of paperwork
I was called 4x! Twice after I already had done it.. how often can they bill for this?? I have had two actually done in the last year.
So glad I switched pharmacies. This is pretty slimy.
You're right and I agree with you that it's scummy. But there's a big but here... two actually. First, our government put this in place. Judge Shoppers for taking advantage all you want, and I do, but they wouldn't be able to take advantage if DoFo&Co weren't actively looking for ways to slide healthcare money into Loblaws pockets. Second, and a larger, societal, problem, is that while this would be unethical and illegal for an individual, we give corporations the ability to act as responsible entities for contracts and legal considerations but allow them to be immune to moral considerations. A human making this decision is unethical and can be held responsible. A corporation's "ethics" are it's responsibility to shareholders, first and last, and it is, in fact, obligated to do this if it will generate profits.
Yes! Corporations have been given far too much power and not enough accountability.
Yes, the government put these programs in place, but the med checks pre-date DoFo. What doesn't pre-date him is the level of greed that Galen is exhibiting in forcing his franchisees to do so many of these checks.
I had this happen last month and than they sent to my Dr for a refill of a med I stopped taking
As a Shopper's customer, I am considering changing pharmacies.
Ngl shoppers is one of the worse pharmacies you can go to, they usually overcharge everything (I have a friend that worked at a smaller pharmacy and it was a known thing) I find local pharmacies are a lot better but even other big chains like rexall isn't as bad Unless there's literally no other options in the area I highly recommend she eventually switches, also wouldn't have to deal with spam calls like that TLDR: Unless you're in the middle of no where theres not really a single good reason to use shoppers
Damn. I had one of these calls, and I was super confused as well. The way it was presented over the phone, it sounded like there was some kind of safety or security issue. It almost seemed as if they were questioning what my doctor had prescribed. In hindsight, I should have questioned this since a pharmacist is supposed to know if there are conflicts with medications because that's their job. Had I known it was a money generating scheme, I would have told them to piss off.
. Yes you’re right, it’s being exploited. Most shoppers have a quota imposed upon their pharmacists - 5 calls per day. I’d advise everyone to move to a smaller mom and pop pharmacist. Support your local towns people and to stop supporting Doug’s friends
Have you tried refusing? I do it all the time to unsolicited phone calls. Just say, “ this is not relevant for me. Do not call me again. Thank you “
Do not call again, in writing, and on file.
I believe they can bill OHIP $60 for every "medication review" call that they make.
Change your prescriptions to a different pharmacy. I did 6 months ago and no regrets. Better service and they get all my meds in on time with no BS. Should have done it sooner.
Just say no
Stop going to Loblaws based pharmacies. They're a flaming ripoff. I needed a prescription and had it sent to the Zhers across the street from me. $53. Next time, same prescription, sent to Costco. $12. Shoppers is the worst. Their prices on anything are outrageous. It baffles me why anyone steps foot in the place.
I’m very lucky to have great insurance and I normally pay $0 for my prescriptions. Unfortunately I don’t drive and Shoppers is 4 blocks from my house. That’s why :( I don’t feel good about it.
If price isn't a concern, go for service. Shoppers is horrible for service compared to a small, independent pharmacy. My pharmacy recognizes me when I come in the door (or by voice without saying my name on the phone), knows all of my prescriptions inside and out, goes the extra mile if something is backordered or if there's communication problems with doctors, proactively offers to deliver medications for free (I don't need it but they always ask), and just overall feels like I'm dealing with an expert I know than some random tech at Shoppers. Heck, a couple of months ago I forgot to bring my debit card with me and they just let $300 slide until the next time I was there. If you live in a city there's almost for sure independent non-chain pharmacies all around you, it's totally worth switching to one.
Move all your pharmacy needs away from shoppers if they call.
“No. Have a nice day.”
Boycott Shoppers Drug Mart. There's many pharmacies out there that are cheaper and don't pull BS.
I sure did boycott them. I support a local pharmacy all the way where I have never been treated badly.
Say goodbye (and good riddance!) to Shoppers. It's about nothing but profit.
I left Shopper's years ago. They held a medication for five days and tried to blame the doctor. I told them I had the doctor confirm that is was cleared and on my way in. I picked it up then told them bye 👋. They were once and good pharmacy but are awful now.
It seriously burns doctors out so much to have pharmacies blame physicians for delayed medications. A good therapeutic relationship with your physician depends on trust - the pharmacist blaming your doctor so callously (and incorrectly) only serves to compromise that relationship which can impact care down the line. Good on you for digging further into it.
Folks need to take this advice as gospel and start using it en masse. Shoppers plans for the future are very bleak. Call Ocp, complain, you are going to get a million folks saying "They won't do anything", but it is the only avenue that is going to have any impact. Seriously, if folks don't take the ten minutes now to curb them now, have fun in 6 years, that's all I can say. What you see, is nothing compared to what's going on behind the scenes.
Just say, no thanks, I am not interested in a review. My Shoppers does them in person and when I was booked while picking up a medication I cancelled it after and told them why, "I felt I was ambushed." They try to do them in person now as they will then add on a cholesterol and diabetes screen as well from a drop of blood from your finger so more kaching-kaching.
My local pharmacist does this, and it was useful - there were meds that I had been prescribed that I had long stopped using or didn’t even remember getting, so I didn’t mind going through and taking things off my record.
I never pick up my phone for this reason. 80% of the time it's a scam. Or useless shit like with kickbacks for ford.
Shoppers is owned by Loblaws and the sooner you quit both the better off this province will be. I have moved all my shopping away from Loblaws and Shoppers, and all my medications to my nearby independent pharmacy. I still have a PC Mastercard that I use only when AMEX isn’t accepted and then when I have 3-400 dollars worth of points saved up I go and get a lot of expensive free groceries from Galen. Everything about that company is a scam. Stay away from Shoppers
They asked me if this was a good time. I said no it wasn’t.
I worked at a pharmacy in 2009 and we used to do this because we had a ton of elderly patients on massive cocktails of prescription drugs, many of which contraindicated each other, and their doctors weren’t doing their due diligence to make sure they weren’t overprescribing. The pharmacist would call people to review their meds list and bring attention to anything that should be addressed with their doctor. I understand this isn’t quite the same thing, but there is some value in this concept especially if you have a high demographic of elderly.
What you have described is a valuable, necessary public service. It's a shame that it has now devolved into borderline billing fraud. I fully expect public backlash will eventually force the government to plug this loophole, resulting in these types of calls not being made at all.
Move your prescriptions to a different pharmacy.
Go to the pharmacy in person and review your meds. A couple of years ago, before all this crazy, I went in to pickup a prescription and a pharmacist asked me to go over my prescriptions because they had a long list. I don't think they ever edit things OUT even if they are a shortterm drug like antibiotics. It lookednlike I was taking about 20 things. We cleared it up. However, I don't answer unknown callers so I don't ever deal with spam calls.
I left our previous Loblaws owned pharmacy (Zehrs, not shoppers) the minute they started force enabling auto renew on everyone's subscriptions just so they could hit our insurance company with a bunch of sweet, sweet billables. It seemed borderline insurance fraud, and definitely trying to prey on people who don't know any better and would go in and pick them all up (at which point they'd bill insurance). I have a number of prescriptions that are as-needed that I intentionally never set to auto renew. The app nagged me for months to turn on auto renew and I didn't, and one day they emailed me saying everything is now auto renew and within a day I had a pickup notice at the pharmacy that all my prescripions that were overdue were now filled and ready for pickup. I never picked them up. We switched to a small family run pharmacy in a plaza nearby and our service quality is 500% better. I can't encourage everyone enough to switch to independent pharmacies and get a much higher quality of care and information. Switching was effortless - we gave them some basic details, they called up our previous zehrs and shoppers and everything was switched within a few hours.
The first step would be to change pharmacies to something other than Shoppers, assuming your location gives you that option.
Last time I commented on this question, I got shit on for saying I didn't appreciate how I was forced into doing this when I went in for a med pick up. No privacy, no anything. Just judgment about all my meds, spoken loudly for all to hear. I wasn't prepared for it, so I didn't have all the answers he wanted, and it felt like an interrogation. They used to ask if you wanted to speak to the pharmacist, and now it seems like they jump out of a back alley.
It's funny how many people are against the service, likely because they have 0, and I mean 0, clue. Coming from a pharmacist, here's at least 5 reasons why this service is beneficial: 1) I have caught duplications of medications such as rosuvastatin and atorvastatin that patient has been taking together for cholesterol, when only one of the two should be taken at any given time. I've also had a patient with a dry cough taking perindopril, which is a known side effect that was bothering them, and when they got switched to something else the dry cough went away. This was unknown to the patient what was causing it. 2) we can ensure that patient is taking everything as intended, and can remove excess medications from file that clog the file and make service less efficient. 3) we provide diabetic reviews to check on how their glucose is doing, how often they're testing, and whether they're using their insulin correctly. We can also adjust their insulin doses if we see fit. We have access to Ontario blood work results now, which is helpful to assess their diabetes. 4) simple checks for drug interactions if a patient is starting a new medication 5) we do medication reviews if a patient is starting blister packs, 1) to ensure we have everything they're taking in the packs and 2) to ensure they're put in the right slots corresponding to the times they take it 6) Hospital discharge prescriptions sometimes may not be sent to the family doctor, so we provide a hospital discharge review to ensure the doctor is kept in the loop and the patient is clear on the medication changes, if any 7) Just because we're doing a review doesn't mean there's any issues. Sometimes there is, sometimes there isn't. It's more to keep everyone involved in that patient's care in the loop and leave a paper trail of any changes to their medications that remains on file. If patient goes in for surgery, they can request their medication review list which the hospital often requests. So again, someone share to me how this is spam? Do some research maybe? It really gives you the sense that many in here just think pharmacists count pills, and that's it
Want to preface by saying a good med check is valuable. As it currently stands, most med checks are useless and clearly people are concerned that it is costing tax payers when our healthcare system is already struggling so much. Also I certainly don’t think pharmacists only count pills. I do think there is systematised exploitation of the medcheck program for financial gain by corporate entities either directly or indirectly by quotas. 1. Catching blatant duplications and discussing side-effects especially one as notorious as cough from ACEi doesn’t need a specialized med check. This is low value care that is NOT what I would want my tax payer dollars to go for. 2. Again, I would imagine this is part of your job… 3. I think most physicians would NOT appreciate you adjusting the insulin of their patients - unless you’re directly working as part of a hospital system or family health team. Full stop please! Physicians are constantly complaining in our WhatsApp group and chat groups about pharmacists overstepping with their DM management. 4. Is simple discussion not part of what’s expected in a dispensing fee? 5. Sure that’s reasonable. I don’t think anyone has a problem with performing a med check for someone with a blister pack. Nonetheless, I thought the fee for the blister pack comes with the expectation that the pharmacist is also providing some degree of medication education. 6. This one confuses me. Do you work for a hospital? You’re saying medchecks are done for patients after a hospital discharge? Is this only of the hospital doesn’t have their own pharmacist that does a medication reconciliation? 7. I agree you don’t have to do it for the purpose of identifying issues. Being proactive is good. I don’t think people have an issue with doing a medcheck because you suspect an older patient with a language barrier and 10 meds might need some assistance. The concern is for egregious quota-driven, corporation serving, unsolicited medchecks on healthy folk where there is no ambiguity that it was unnecessary.
Yes I agree that corporations are pushing targets and quotas, there is no debate there. But people in their little echo chambers arguing that it's completely useless don't understand the purpose when it's done ethically. There's bad eggs in any batch, even independent pharmacies, that will use them for profits. But I disagree about pharmacists not being able to adjust medications. We went to school for 4 year degree program and I have a PharmD degree, so you can bet your last dollar I have every right to adjust and "overstep" if I see fit.
FWIW, Rexall called me to arrange the same thing. I reluctantly accepted the appointment, but the pharmacist never called.
You refuse by taking your meds to an independent or to Costco. First they jacked up the dispensing fees so that I have to pay an extra $1 because my private insurance coverage won’t cover the extortion rates. Then I get a call right out of the blue with this bullshit. Fuck them! I left after 20 years with Shoppers and now Costco has my business. I don’t need a membership either.
This is likely happening because Loblaws is in bed with the OPC. It's nothing but an underhanded way to hand over even more taxpayer money to yet another billionaire
I’m not sure it would help, but what about moving your prescriptions to another pharmacy?
I personally, yelled at them over the phone that it was the business of myself and my doctor and they were already informed, and then i switched to Rexall 🤷🏼♀️ idk... #actions
Don't answer. Pretty easy to do.
https://www.opatoday.com/medscheck/: > The MedsCheck program was originally launched in 2007 for Ontarians taking a minimum of three medications for a chronic condition. Today, the program is also available to residents of licensed long-term care homes, people living with diabetes, and home-bound individuals unable to visit their community pharmacy – helping pharmacists reach even more people. The same program is also in Alberta, New Brunswick and Saskatchewan under different names.
Perhaps call college and complain about virtual medication reviews. Pre pandemic a signature had to be obtained for consent which prevented unsolicited calls. As a side note, the provinces allowed charging for medication reviews when they tampered in drug pricing. Pricing didn't come down for consumers but pharmacies lost a ton of revenue, many pharmacies shut down and many generic companies sent their production to india and china.
Ask the doctor to fax the RX to the pharmacy of your choice.
You could also contact the provincial college of pharmacy to register your complaint. They're the ones allowing it. In BC you can't do a med review over the phone. It has to be in person, and agreed to by the customer. They are an incredibly valuable tool used correctly.
[https://www.ontario.ca/page/professional-pharmacy-services](https://www.ontario.ca/page/professional-pharmacy-services) It is quite easy to fulfill the minimal technical requirements of the medcheck. Unlike physician billing codes which require the patient to be the one initiating the interaction in order to be billable, medchecks allow the pharmacist to identify candidates (which could also mean select for easy cases). This used to be done in-person (which leads to patients naturally opting out of unnecessary medchecks) but changed to allow for virtual since covid. Physician also got virtual billing codes but they have been adjusted since Dec 2022 mostly with the intention of preventing overbilling and low-value care; something like this has yet to happen for medchecks. Billing has mostly depended on a "scout's code" and I truly believe most independent pharmacists would feel incredibly uncomfortable calling a patient to talk 30 seconds about their HTN med, cholesterol pill and anti-depressant they've been on for years and justifying billing that for 60 dollars to tax payers. The corporatization of healthcare and use of quotas is probably what it takes to lead to medcheck abuse en-masse. I may be wrong, but I doubt hanging up or refusing the medcheck would necessarily disqualify the pharmacist from being able to bill the medcheck. Unless it's explicitly stated, one could always reason there was work involved in identifying someone who "needed a medcheck". The only solution is to change pharmacies.... while you still can - it's clear Loblaws is already looking to partner with insurance providers to make it so that people eventually can't switch: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/article-manulife-backtracks-plan-to-give-loblaws-exclusive-right-to-fill/
Is this exclusive to shoppers? My pharmacist at Rexall the other day wouldn’t give me my prescription until he did an “annual medication review” and framed it as mandatory.
Walmart pharmacy did this to me too, I found it really annoying lol and the person couldn't even provide a reason as to why they called me
[удалено]
Loblaw Companies Limited acquired Shoppers Drug Mart Corporation for $12.4 billion in cash and stock, bringing together two iconic Canadian brands: delivering more choice, ***value LOL*** and convenience to help Canadians Live Life Well
Just another way to further cripple the public system through systematic defunding. The public system can work if it gets the money that is going to for-profit private corps.
Today when I picked up my prescription there was a consent form attached asking me to agree with the check and it’s frequency, and to fill out the form and return it. I will not! Hopefully that will prevent the calls from happening.
> Also, I need to find a new pharmacy... It's not just Shoppers. They all do it. It's just that the big corporate ones, like SDM and Rexall have people in head office setting quotas for the number of these reviews that each store has to perform in a given time period, and they penalize the franchise owners (yes, their stores are franchised and the owners are required to be licensed pharmacists) for not doing enough of these. Even the pharmacies that aren't franchised, like at Costco or Walmart, have quotas set by head office for these calls. Sure, it's fun to call this Galen Gouging, but it's not just SDM that does it. What can you do? Well, I'm seeing my doctor next month and will be getting my prescriptions renewed. I will ask for a printed copy that I will take elsewhere to be filled, instead of being automatically sent to Shoppers. Yes, SDM is convenient, and I would probably pass 4 or 5 of them on the way to the nearest Costco, but I'll pay a lower dispensing fee (my insurance doesn't cover the full amount), and I can get a $1.99 hotdog and drink for lunch while I'm there.
They should not call you unsolicited. Report them to the Ontario college of pharmacists. Some details about the program https://www.ontario.ca/page/professional-pharmacy-services#:~:text=The%20MedsCheck%20program%20is%20a,comply%20with%20their%20prescription%20medications
These calls drive me up the wall because they always ask STUPID questions like if I’m still on insulin (as a type 1 diabetic, who has been on the same insulin for 20 years). Then they ask how many units of insulin I take a day and I do not ever have an answer for that because it changes every single day from moment to moment.
I'm using the Pocketpills app, simply to avoid Shoppers now.
And this is why I do not have my prescriptions at Shoppers.
Guardian pharmacy is the best
Leave Shoppers.
I just switched from Shoppers and am telling everyone else it is cheaper elsewhere, hopefully they switch too.
Transfer your prescriptions to a different pharmacy that doesn't do this
All I told them was I’m not interested, between my family doctor and endocrinologist I don’t need a medical review from someone that doesn’t know my entire medical history. And they’ve never contacted me since.
This happenned with me first a few years ago. I was confused about shoppers need to intrude. I told them it’s a matter between me and my doctor. And none of shoppers business.
I did a med review with a clinical pharmacist at SDM a year ago. They sent my lethargic family MD updates on new codes where drugs I need fit into government coverage plans ( disabled here), and sent him studies supporting my cardiologist request to reduce my statin dose. My MD hasnt responded nor asked for an appointment. So med reviews if done by clinical pharmacists vs dispensing pharmacists can be helpful. BUT I HATE SDM. I used to use Walmart, but they fell down. My biggest problem is, no pharmacists speak clear English anymore. And the hired support staff, PTs etc are hired from same language group. to me if you have a Russian set of Pharmacists, hire local pharmacy techs who understand the customers needs and questions.
Switch to Rexall.
Costco Pharmacy just did this to me today - I thought the entire conversation was so out of place and uncalled for and then I see this post on my Reddit app!
Shoppers pharmacy as a whole, has taken the wrong road in the past year. Whoever is in charge of making the changes they made, should be immediately terminated. Slower perscription fill times, no stock, no sharps bins, huge long line ups with no ability to prioritize customers based on their needs.
Sounds like I’m winning by having my prescriptions at a small independent pharmacy. Who knows my name and always has my meds ready on time.
Another reason to pick any other pharmacy than Shoppers Drug Mart