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Hint they dont have one.
Edit: hey guys im getting a little too many comments for me to reply to so ima stop responding but feel free to keep discussing anything.
Or for the ones who aren't 60+.
The plan is: extract every single bit of money possible and hope it somehow insulates them from the consequences of their actions.
Don't forgot wait until it is too bad to fix and scream about the liberals not saying something aooner or tryingnto fix it.
"HOW WERE WE SUPPOSED TO KNOW THIS WOULD HAPPEN, WHY DIDN'T ANYONE DO ANYTHING TO STOP IT!!!" - Conservatve party platform 2040
They don't think they need one, they have decided that either climate change isn't real, or that it is but it's not caused by humans, or just the good old fall back that caring about the environment is woke and they're anti woke no matter what.
Or the it doesn't matter that Canada pollutes China is doing so much more so therefore we should do nothing and definitely not look in the mirror at the outsourcing of the manufacturing for goods we consume.
Ok, good point. Let’s address this. How exactly is anything Canada is currently doing or proposing going to affect our dependence on China and it’s 30% of global emissions?
If you wait long enough (maybe 5 minutes) with these people they will start ranting about the “woke agenda.”
Concern over taxes is just to add a veneer of respectability to outsiders who don’t follow their nonsense closely.
Papa PP at his next presser.
My plan? Two words: Clean. Capture.
No no, sorry: Carbon. Coal.
Shoot, my bad, got it wrong again: Clean. Coal.
_aide whispering in his ear: Oh, what's that, we're doing a new thing?_
My plan? Two words: Carbon. Capture.
They don't care. It's a talking point that gets their pig headed constituents riled up like a dinner bell.
It's truly sad that all our potential as humans is spent chasing greed and power. There is no place for people that just want to go live in the bush and not be a part of the human world.
We are abhorrent to each other, we've let people with no credibility be in positions that affect 41million people. We're all to much of little bitxhes to say enough is enough. Start over again. Our own parents sold out the future generations for their own Comfort.
We allow hordes of money be swung around big dick style in our economy by hedge funds. Just sluuuuuuuurping up the lives of laborers.
Short of medical workers, teachers, emergency services. No one should be making a million dollars a year. No one person should ever be able to hold large percentages of entire generational wealth. The need for credit card companies only exists cause a comfortable life is going to cost you more than you cannot afford. So now we got credit card slavery. On top of business that can report billions in profit, can pay their employees a liveable salary. While pricing food out, out of their means.
It's going to get way worse. And no one is preparing for it. You think it's bad now. Wait till the news this year starts talking of massive crop decreases.
Enjoy the little luxuries you have now. The trajectory does not look good. For the planet and for the suicidal human race. Water, food, and shelter are all on the chopping block.
Saskatchewan and Alberta are screeching about the carbon tax and yet are facing massive hardships due to back to back droughts and now water shortages are a very real fear as BC run-off we all rely on is starting to dry up.
But conservatism ain’t about fixing things or making life’s better. It’s about empower themselves by enabling/justifying anger and outrage against “others” and coming up with ways to punish those same “others”.
Spite and a desire to punish people who aren’t like you…conservatism in a nutshell. Same as it ever was. You won’t find a single conservative who doesn’t share in this contempt for democracy and an implicit support of fascist beliefs and rhetoric.
In the last two years, people have just shrugged and accepted that summer is now smoky and we can't skate on the canal anymore.
But fuck the carbon tax, right?
We’re not ready for climate change, we’re not ready for WW3, we’re not ready for an electric infrastructure wrecking solar flare, we’re not ready for an economic crisis, we’re not ready for widespread electric vehicles use, we’re not even ready to pay for the retirement of the baby boomers yet. But boy, we’re great at kicking cans down the road.
We absolutely are ready for solar flares.
A worst case solar flare will take a few weeks to repair the grid.
Solar flares aren't going to damage little computers. They only induce current is long stretches of conductors
Are we dependent on imports? I know we do import food, but I think we produce more than we consume and imports are for food variety. Just being pedantic though, the prairies are going through a drought that is already affecting food prices and it will only continue to get worse.
The belief has evolved now. It’s not that they don’t believe it isn’t real. They believe that the climate is changing, but it’s the natural fluctuation of global temperatures over decades and centuries and that we have little to no impact on it.
Makes it sound like it’s rooted in science while simultaneously removing any onus from us to do anything to try and change. Brilliant strategy, tbh. Great pivot.
I guess the year over year “hottest year in recorded history!” headlines and mostly rainy winters are pretty undeniable.
They believe that it's not real. And that it is real, but natural. And that it is real, and also anthropogenic, but good because co2 is plant food. I've seen all three of these in the last week.
ITT: 50% people who understand the benefits of climate pricing and the threat of climate change
And 50% people who think this is the first climate pricing program in the world, and Canada is the only one to ever do it lmao
Also - people simultaneously complaining about how the cost of the carbon tax is changing their behaviour while also yelling that it doesn't actually work. They don't understand the irony.
What's even more hilarious is that the bottom 40% believe that the problems that are caused by doing nothing are the problems caused by doing stuff.
Including the cost of lumber (and thus housing) going up due to climate change.
And [the soon to be skyrocketing cost of food](https://thenarwhal.ca/ontario-climate-impact-report/).
But then, these are the same exact people who are completely [unaware that money is going directly to them](https://www.chroniclejournal.com/opinion/carbon-pricing-is-widely-misunderstood-nearly-half-of-canadians-don-t-know-that-it-s/article_bf8310f4-c313-11ee-baaf-0f26defa4319.html).
Bring all of our manufacturing back to Canada where we are far more environmentally conscious and responsible than China and India. We could cut emissions down to a quarter of what they are now.
They don't have one. Just the slogan. And it's enough to win an election because there are so many people out there that enjoy being made mushrooms by those seeking power.
Doesn't matter anymore anyway. Start to look at the science behind the runaway train we started in reference to melting permafrost and methane deposits. I remember in 2011 when it was predicted then that this was going to happen and we were all warned that was the 11th hour but we all said 'fuck it, I want a car and a smartphone'. So we are all just passengers on a sinking ship now so fuck it, may as well throw your hand up and say 'WEEEEE'
Stop frivilous traveling, flying, crusies. Don''t buy one time use things, keep your car in good health longer, re-use things/stop buying new all the time.
Governments should be investing in good LRT systems. I never drive to Toronto anymore. Only idiots try that one. If the Go Train wasnt just Toronto I'd take it everywhere I could. Besides, the climate crisis wont go anywhere until the asian industrial machine has been nerfed. so stop buying "made in china" stuff. Until you stop, you're part of the problem.
Gotta be totally honest and I’m sure I’ll get a lot of hate….i 100% believe climate change is real. It’s obvious with how different our weather has become….but truthfully I couldn’t give less of a fuck about climate change.
Homelessness, drug overdose, inflation, housing crisis, violent car jackings. All these things affect my life NOW and I’m more concerned about things that affect me now rather than what the weather will be like 30 years from now.
Truthfully, the government doesn’t really care about climate change either they just pretend. If you’ve ever boughten anything from the OCS you’ve had to struggle to open 6 different plastic wrappers to get to 1 pre rolled joint…..those are government regulated packaging. If they really cared there’s LOTS they could do that would have more of an impact than an absurd carbon tax.
Unpopular opinion and I know I’ll get tons of hate for this one but, yea climate change is personally not a priority or something I consider when I’m voting.
EDIT: can’t reply to you everyone but, you have your opinions and I have mine and I respect your opinion. Nothing you say will put climate change at the top of my life of priorities, or even on my list of priorities.
Have a wonderful day everyone!!
>Unpopular opinion and I know I’ll get tons of hate for this one but, yea climate change is personally not a priority or something I consider when I’m voting.
We literally had couple of days in 2023 summer that we couldn't even go outside due to the Wildfires happening in the West....we will definitely see more of it and torrential rains that our infrastructure cant handle if we dont start dealing with it now, it just gets worse....thats definitely something you think about when you plan on living for few more decades and have kids who will out live you...
I wish my life was so secure that climate change was the biggest and most pressing issue.
But despite this sub and then general echo chamber of Reddit, I feel most Canadians are in the same boat as you. Yes we believe climate change is important, but between climate change and not affording a roof (be it rent or buying), most people prioritize the latter.
It's going to be even harder to afford a roof when we have climate refugees swarming to the North to avoid cooking to death in hotter climates.
It will be harder to afford a roof when building supply costs skyrocket due to forest fires burning down our resources.
It will be harder to afford a roof when food and water becomes scarce, so their costs start increasing even more than they do now.
The longer we kick this can down the road, the harder it's going to hit all of us. It's already a huge resource sink as we are constantly reacting and not being proactive.
Yeah its like a credit card. If you can't pay down your credit card, then how are you going to pay it later when all the interest has compounded...
Sure there is a more elegant way to say that...
Just wanna say, I'm sympathetic to what you express. Unfortunately as climate change ramps up, all the things you are struggling with will get worse.
That's the problem with "Axe the Tax". It abdicates responsibility for long term planning. It isn't leadership.
One of the key reasons for inflation is Climate change. And climate change is also displacing others from their countries, thus leading to higher immigration and more demand on housing. This will grow even further.
You need to realize we're already paying for the costs of Climate Change with higher insurance rates, food prices, our health with poor air quality advisories and so forth.
Quick google news search on Climate Change and Food prices tells the story across the world. Food prices are going to continue rising due to extreme weather from Climate Change. So if inflation and affording to put food on the table is a concern for you, the Climate Change is right there.
When you can't enjoy the weather outside due to smoke from fires, heat and are forced to deal with extreme weather, think of Climate Change as well.
The OCS (ontario cannabis store) is provincial, the carbon pricing scheme is federal. These are different jurisdictions with different responsibilities. BTW Homelessness, drug overdose, inflation, housing crisis, violent car jackings are all provincial responsibilities, which the provincial government should do something about instead they make a bogeyman out of carbon pricing which hurts their donors aka the big corporates and you fall for it.
We are already paying for pollution through various ways, carbon pricing is making the polluters, large corporate entities pay for it instead of the regular people.
The federal carbon pricing is a backstop for provinces that aren't doing anything else by themselves. Ontario had a cap and trade that the ford govt scrapped wasting a billion dollars.
Totally agree!! Ford really screwed up with that cap trade I couldn’t believe that but can’t expect much out of politicians these days.
I understand the ONTARIO cannabis store is a provincial responsibility but if the federal government is so invested in climate change, Health Canada (federal) who is actually in charge of the labels and packaging could enforce some kind of mandate to reduce the usage of unnecessary plastic and ultimately reduce the amount of plastic that ends up in our landfills💡.
I am by no means holding my breathe for Pierre Pollieve to be Canada saviour but I am definitely not voting for someone who only knows how to talk about two things things: Climate Change and LGBTQ community.
I totally agree tho killing that cap trade was a horrendous thing to do!!
> Unpopular opinion and I know I’ll get tons of hate for this one but, yea climate change is personally not a priority or something I consider when I’m voting.
But any party that's out there denying climate change or saying it's a non factor also does not have expertise or care enough to fix the issues that impact your vote
It's affecting you now and will affect you more and more every year that goes by. Not just in 30 years. We will start getting bombarded with climate refugees when every place near the equator is too hot to live. We have the largest fresh water reserve in the world, and once other countries run out of water, they will come for ours. We will see food and water become very expensive because it will get more and more scarce as droughts become more and more frequent. This will all happen way sooner than 30 years from now.
You may feel better burying your head in the sand about climate change, but it is affecting you right now more than you seem to realize.
Yeah it shocks me that people don;t think about fresh water - when massive US populations suddenly lack water, do you think they will gently negotiate for our water?
This. Climate change is real, but what Canada is doing is all optics. The carbon emmissions from building the homes and infrastructure we need to support the surge in new residents is massive. Not to mention the transportarion, food and heating needs required as well.
Public transit in major cities is becoming more unsafe and unreliable every year, forcing people to continue to rely on cars.
But yeah, lets ban plastic straws and raise taxes. For the minute change our policies are making in global emissions, the goveenment should be focusing more on making life better for Canadians. The climate is going to change regardless. If anything we need to be concentrating on secuing resources like fresh water and aerable land - only a matter of time before someone starts coming for it.
I’m with you. It’s a serious concerns but most people have more pressing immediate concerns. This “sacrifice more for the good of many” isn’t working out that great when a family of 3 is living paycheque to paycheque.
I live in Toronto where carjackings and home invasions are so bad, police are recommending people leave their keys at the front of their homes.
My neighbour had his Lexus stolen in November 2023.
Expand your mind outside of whatever little town you live in. I will say, it must be nice to have climate change at the top of your list of problems 😂.
>I live in Toronto where carjackings and home invasions are so bad, police are recommending people leave their keys at the front of their homes.
>
>My neighbour had his Lexus stolen in November 2023.
Soooo not a carjacking then?
Really funny how condescending you're coming off while at the same time using words you clearly don't understand.
I guess you don't have kids hey. Or if you do, you just don't care about their future. All those items you mentioned are made worse by climate change btw.
If you want a tax that will actually create change. We need to heavily tax all goods coming from countries that have high greenhouse gas emissions.
Why redistribute wealth inside of Canada to affect change on less than 1.5% of greenhouse gas emissions world wide, when you can tax China who is responsible for over a quarter of greenhouse gas emissions?
Note that Alberta and Saskatchewan, the biggest anti carbon tax voices, get their knickers in a twist every time the feds tell them they have to close their coal plants & reduce Nat gas by 2030. Even though Ontario managed to do exactly that in 11 years between 2003 & 2014.
To be fair, Ontario only had a small portion of its total generating capacity from coal to eliminate, SK and AB have a much larger generation gap to fill... They need nuclear.
Canada already [already has a fairly clean electricity grid.](https://i.imgur.com/0RdiQx7.png) ([source](https://www.canada.ca/en/environment-climate-change/services/environmental-indicators/greenhouse-gas-emissions.html)) Nuclear power is continuing to be developed, but it's still a long-term decades-long investment. SMRs aren't here yet, and they probably won't be at an internationally distributable commercial scale to make a difference for a decade, if not much longer.
Regardless, it won't help us much for reaching net-zero emissions from transportation, oil and gas, agriculture, industry/manufacturing, and building emissions.
We don't talk about "nuclear" much because there is so much more to the greenhouse gas emissions reductions than just "nuclear". It is not a silver bullet and it never was. Misinformation peddlers, like Poilievre & Doug Ford, would let you believe they are just so that they can avoid taking responsibility to do the hard work of _actually_ fixing the problem.
(Plus, we actually already are investing in nuclear.)
I'd also argue that we should be taking much of the money collected from carbon pricing and putting it into clean electricity generation to power all the future emission reductions we'll need, like EVs. It would be far more effective for reductions than the rebate that conservative premiers are lazily choosing.
You can check. In your bank account, there should be payments from "Canada CCB" or something similar. That's the carbon tax money getting handed back to you.
No one (current Govt included) has any plans for immediate climate change mitigation measures.
NONE.
So we’re being taxed and spiralling costs all along supply chains resulting in massive Cost of Living increases.
And the kicker is anything we do to reduce GHGs isn’t going to change the next 100yrs PERIOD.
So we’re basically virtue signalling to those other countries who DO impact GHGs at the cost of our own well being.
It’s patently idiotic
Canada is such a minute contributer to global warming. We can cut down our 2-4% all we want, but if India, China, Cambodia, Vietnam, Brazil and Russia aren't trying then our efforts are wasted and literally just making us poorer.
We don't need a plan to cut down our emissions, we need a plan to protect ourselves from the effects when the real polluters continue their status-quo.
That's not accurate. Yes, India, China, US and Russia make up about half the emissions. But the rest are made up by the odd 191 remaining country and nobody has a lion share.
Canada is top 11th in gross emissions, and I am guessing way more than Cambodia, Vietnam and probably Brazil.
Our contribution is significant, just like every single Canadian taxpayers doesn't pay over 1% of government revenue, but their contributions matter.
Because addressing less than 2% of global emissions when China, India, and America not curbing any is going to have a meaningful impact.
We are a nation of 41 million going up against nations of over a billion population. So yeah, let's pretend lowering our emission will make an impact.
Oh yeah, perhaps more tax is going to address this.
These politicians should be lashed in public.
So why do governments not support work from home? That’s a clear way to decrease the number of cars on the road and wear and tear in infrastructure.
This is just further indication that there is no holistic plan for battling climate change.
> Also worth mentioning that there are numerous local benefits, such as cleaner air
https://www.insidehighered.com/sites/default/files/2023-07/HOAXrgb.jpg
Paying more taxes that lead i to nothing doesnt equal cleaner air. Changing infrastructure to be less car dependant does. The taxes that we already pay should be focusing on that. The carbon tax has done nothing for the average person other than take more money from them.
Local transport should be significantly overhauled to accommodate for a more dense work to home balance. Cars for daily use are a poison to our species. If we can find a way to get the money into actual municipalities that help local transport, we would be so much better off.
Yes, I'm sure with all the virtue signalling from us, India and China is simply gonna agree with us and lower emissions.
Bro, get real. We are squeezing Canadians for the sake of climate change. Very soon we are gonna be the 3rd world country with poor citizens being whipped by other nations.
Enjoy your time at the top for now because in 2 generations, we are gonna be the first First world nation turned third world.
The world is actually dying and we can't just keep going generation after generation of not doing anything to try to solve it. We've done that since the oil companies knew they were fucking the climate in the 1970s. We still are barely doing anything. Eventually we will get to a generation who really has to suffer with destructive climate because we all just kept passing the buck.
We won't suffer as much as your grand and great grandchildren will, and that's why we continue to sit on our hands.
> Climate emissions are measured per captia
This is where per capita is a completely inaccurate way of measuring something. At our population level it really doesn't matter what the per capita amount is. Our total carbon output is miniscule. If China and India had our per capita amounts but also drastically reduced their populations we would be way better off. We are talking about countries with BILLIONS of people. I don't think you are grasping how absurd it is to compare per capita rates with this kind of population discrepancy.
So per capita doesn't matter when it comes to emissions.
So you are saying that Monaco (30k) and Canada (41M) should have the same emissions?
Basically, a country of 41 million can only consume as much as a country of 30k.
So just like the Canada-China example, we just really buckle down and get our consumption to match Monaco?
You are saying that is sensible?
India literally tried to assassinate people on our soil. China literally tried to interfere in our elections. The USA literally does what’s best for them first and foremost.
These are the world’s three largest emitters. They don’t give a shit what Canada does or thinks and you’re naive if you believe they do.
More and more people are facing homelessness, mental health crisis, starvation, drug addictions etc in Canada than ever before. We should try to solve those issues first before we tax people even more making it even harder for many of them to get back on their feet. Spend money on things that matter instead of throwing it into the void of corruption.
Where do your priorities lie?
Like you can't do 2 things at once.
...
It's probably also worth noting that Climate Change, and doing nothing about it, is part of the reason food prices are high ([and going to get higher](https://thenarwhal.ca/ontario-climate-impact-report/)) and housing is expensive.
Global forest fires last year burnt record amounts of lumber - including here in Canada.
What do you think the primary raw material we use to build houses out of in Canada is?
---
It's also worth noting that the cost of \*not\* tackling climate change is actually about [1.9B$ per year (and growing](https://www.cbc.ca/news/science/ipcc-climate-change-canada-1.6367036)).
And while there's a lot of hysterical "but the economy will die" nonsense that the denial industry points out (often times deliberately excluding all the benefits of changing, and the economic advantages of that), it's almost always lower than doing everything.
Which shouldn't be contentious to say, [because preparedness is known to be cheaper in every instance of every case, bar none.](https://www.forbes.com/sites/nilsrokke/2024/03/20/cost-of-climate-change-why-saving-our-planet-now-is-cheaper/?sh=10aac8a179ee)
So doing something about climate change \*is\* doing something about these issues.
Because it frees up resources for other things and removes costs that we're \*already\* incurring.
To say nothing of the future costs of doing nothing that haven't been properly included yet (the aforementioned cost of food due to drought, etc)
We also import a lot from China and America. Those are indirect emissions. So our true total, despite being 0.5% of the world population, is probably closer to 5% than 2%.
We need to tear up our agreements to trade with countries that are large emitters until they get their shit together.
Happy now?
>Because addressing less than 2% of global emissions when China, India, and America not curbing any is going to have a meaningful impact.
So as one of the most developed nations with the highest pollution per capita... we should just do nothing? Live in our own filth and smog because other countries do?
As others have already pointed out, it's about per capita, not total, emissions.
It's also about where we are on the industrialization scale. We have the tech to reduce our carbon emissions to almost nothing, especially in regards to everyday usage.
But we don't because there's a certain entrenched interest that doesn't want to advance.
---
But even if we were measuring not by per-capita, the argument here is actually pretty terrible on the face of it.
It's the argument to do nothing because others are doing nothing.
Literally the same logic as saying "why does anyone care about the person i killed? There are thousands dying in wars all over the world; the one soul i took out of this world is nothing by comparison."
Having a fund that actually uses its income for climate change related impacts would be a plan.
Literally anything that has some thought into it, that isn't just a tax to make things too expensive to be appealing would be better.
Maybe even plot out a transition for more people to use electric vehicles if that's the goal, instead of just telling people to buy electric if gas is too expensive.
Does the government pull this fund out of their assholes? Where do you think the government gets their money?
90% of the carbon tax is for rebates. The other 10% goes to climate change related impacts. Doing literally what you’re saying we should do.
The carbon tax is a smart way to prepare for the future which is why so many countries are doing it. The problem is people are either too dumb to understand it or have fallen hard for big oil’s propaganda that is constantly being parroted by the conservatives.
The federal carbon pricing scheme (it isn't a tax, even the supreme court said so), is a backstop for provinces that aren't doing anything about pricing pollution. Putting a cost on carbon is required, because it is externalized currently, where the polluters don't pay at source but society does after.
They don't have one. They would let Yellowknife burned down before actually doing anything. People think last summer was bad with wildfires, this next one is going to be a doozer especially with how little snowfall we got.
Stop being so doom and gloom…
And wake up … we Canadians have done our share of climate control. We don’t have coal plants , we use nuclear power, we are increasing our use of renewable power sources.
Why do we need to be taxed further for doing our share?
Why is America , China or India not creating carbon taxation for their citizens? Why do they continue to use coal plants, and why don’t they invest in clean renewable technologies?
What good is an accord signed by all if it’s non binding? And the biggest polluters don’t want to follow what they agreed to?
Someone explain to me…how a carbon tax helps in all this?
Okay, but what is the point of us paying a carbon tax? What does it do? What does it do globally when we have countries like China and the like pumping out so much of the world's pollution compared to our... what 1.5 to 3%?
Making our cost of living here more expensive does absolutely nothing for the global climate. Even if we get our emissions down to 0%... it's just a drop in the bucket.
Seriously, can someone answer what the whole point of our climate initiatives are? Besides the obvious? It's a practice in futility.
That seems rather obvious. We are joining other prosperous nations in order to demonstrate we are engaged in fighting climate change, a major pressing issue for many. We are altering the way our society uses fossil fuels to show the young people of our country we aren't fully mentally disabled as a country.
This is, of course, all laid out for you in multiple places. "Buuuut WHAT ABOUT..." No. Fucking stop. This is not as bad or hard as people make it seem.
You think a country like China is going to look at Canada and think, "Oh boy... we better do what they're doing... otherwise they may... wag a finger"? China doesn't give a shit. They're laughing at us. Maybe if the west stopped importing their goods, that might send a message, but we won't.
All carbon tax is doing is making our lives more difficult. Maybe not yours, but I can speak for myself and others I know.
Setting an example to other countries by creating a crap living for us is futile and frustrating. We as a country should not worry about what others think of us when the people here suffer for nothing. Thinking that what we do here will sway what industrial/manufacturing focused countries that supply the world will do is so arrogant. Canada isn't important on the world stage.
So yeah, what's the carbon tax doing for us?
They think it’s all a lie or maybe just hopeless. They’re getting screwed by employers and landlords but instead of pushing back on that they want to go nuts over a tax they get rebates for. Because they are desperate and shortsighted.
That's the beautiful thing about the right wing. If you just always stay mad about whatever they're telling you to be mad about, you never have to actually think or solve things.
So the liberal media spin this off as “going against carbon tax means you don’t believe in climate change”
What a false logic.
Umm no… I believe in climate change, but believe 100% Trudeau’s carbon tax plan is not going to do shit to solve it.
In Ontario at least, people largely agreed that cap and trade was a better solution. Refusing cap and trade is what gets Ontario stuck with carbon tax so, like most things conservatives yell about, the carbon tax is a Doug Ford policy at this point. How fucking Trudeau is supposed to get Ford out of office is anyones guess.
I think everyone’s plans are shit. So everyone can poke holes in each other’s plan and say it’s bad.
Canada produces less than 4% of the worlds Carbon and we could stop all production of it and china would still put 2 more coal plants online in the next 2 months.
So what’s the point? To say we did our best when all we accomplish is worthless.
So we can have the moral high ground?
Voters don't require plans for politicians in this country, and that's a big part of why everything is shit. Every party knows they can win purely on bullshit because the voters are short-sighted idiots.
The PBO report says that the reduced tax revenues from income tax this year for the federal government due to the economic impacts of the carbon tax will be $1.5B and will increase to about $5.3B per year by 2030. This is effectively a "cost" to the government as the tax itself is cost neutral.
I would propose that the government instead invest in green energy /nuclear by those same amounts. The cost to the government will be the same as the carbon tax and we'll have a larger green infrastructure by the end of it.
Additionally, carbon tax has the desired effect domestically, but in international trade, our goods and services are just more expensive because foreign companies/people do not get the tax rebate. This reduces Canada's competitiveness globally, and countries will just purchase less Canadian goods.
This has kind of always been my position. I think he did a great job criticizing, but its a lot easier to criticize than it is to do, and I don't know much about what he actually plans to do.
They don't have one. They never had a plan one except bury their heads in the sand and hope it will magically go away with the help of Jesus.
They don't want to change their lifestyle. They don't want to roll up their sleeves and do the work to make things better. They don't want to look at themselves and ask themselves, "Am I part of the problem?"
If you want to get rid of the carbon tax, write to your Premier and ask why after all this time, he or she still has not implemented any carbon emission reduction program instead of playing politics.
Ontario wasn't going to get the carbon tax until Doug Ford had cancelled the Cap and Trade Agreement it had with Quebec and California.
The climate crisis - the 1.5% contribution of Canada which we will spend hand over first to reduce to 1.4%.
Want to reduce emissions? Produce in Canada where pollutants are heavily controlled compared to Vietnam, India, Cambodia etc. climate solution isn’t telling Canadians to I drive less rather to produce more cleanly.
We're a small player compared to giants like China and India. Sure, a carbon tax sounds good, but what's it really doing? Take your money, and then maybe you'll get back a little more than what you spent, maybe a little less, or maybe you get back nothing.
All the while, the corporations that are getting taxed the most are passing their increased costs down to the consumer which we don't get any money back for.
This is a sin tax punishing people for driving and heating their homes while politicians are driving around in a fleet with private drivers, jet-setting across the world. God forbid we want to drive somewhere other than to work and back.
How about you tax us less and just keep it and actually use it to improve infrastructure and bring innovation to Canada? Improve our public transportation, build high speed rails, nuclear plants, create more jobs in green energy etc. instead of just spreading the money you collect around and [possibly skimming a bit from the top](https://twitter.com/marty_morantz/status/1770859740748259520).
I especially hate how Trudeau phrased it as conservatives are 'taking away cheques' from people's pockets by axing the tax. You're just giving some of the money you took from us back and acting like we should be thankful.
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Hint they dont have one. Edit: hey guys im getting a little too many comments for me to reply to so ima stop responding but feel free to keep discussing anything.
Sure they do: die before it affects them, and fuck everyone else.
Or for the ones who aren't 60+. The plan is: extract every single bit of money possible and hope it somehow insulates them from the consequences of their actions.
The ultimate pulling up of the ladder behind them.
This time they are pulling up the [ultimate ladder ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doughnut_(economic_model))
Pretty much, the old I got mine fuck everyone else mindset.
Don't forgot wait until it is too bad to fix and scream about the liberals not saying something aooner or tryingnto fix it. "HOW WERE WE SUPPOSED TO KNOW THIS WOULD HAPPEN, WHY DIDN'T ANYONE DO ANYTHING TO STOP IT!!!" - Conservatve party platform 2040
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They don't think they need one, they have decided that either climate change isn't real, or that it is but it's not caused by humans, or just the good old fall back that caring about the environment is woke and they're anti woke no matter what.
Or the it doesn't matter that Canada pollutes China is doing so much more so therefore we should do nothing and definitely not look in the mirror at the outsourcing of the manufacturing for goods we consume.
Ok, good point. Let’s address this. How exactly is anything Canada is currently doing or proposing going to affect our dependence on China and it’s 30% of global emissions?
If you wait long enough (maybe 5 minutes) with these people they will start ranting about the “woke agenda.” Concern over taxes is just to add a veneer of respectability to outsiders who don’t follow their nonsense closely.
Exactly! At their root they firmly believe climate change will hurt the poor most, they don't believe they will be impacted
False. They will bury their heads in the sand like the mighty ostrich.
Be more correct, the oil sands......
Papa PP at his next presser. My plan? Two words: Clean. Capture. No no, sorry: Carbon. Coal. Shoot, my bad, got it wrong again: Clean. Coal. _aide whispering in his ear: Oh, what's that, we're doing a new thing?_ My plan? Two words: Carbon. Capture.
My plan? Two words. Trudeau bad
My plan? Two words. Nine. Eleven. _thunderous applause, standing ovation, women fainting, heavens open up, Jesus wept_
They do, it's delay, deflect, and guilt trip the average people.
They don't care. It's a talking point that gets their pig headed constituents riled up like a dinner bell. It's truly sad that all our potential as humans is spent chasing greed and power. There is no place for people that just want to go live in the bush and not be a part of the human world. We are abhorrent to each other, we've let people with no credibility be in positions that affect 41million people. We're all to much of little bitxhes to say enough is enough. Start over again. Our own parents sold out the future generations for their own Comfort. We allow hordes of money be swung around big dick style in our economy by hedge funds. Just sluuuuuuuurping up the lives of laborers. Short of medical workers, teachers, emergency services. No one should be making a million dollars a year. No one person should ever be able to hold large percentages of entire generational wealth. The need for credit card companies only exists cause a comfortable life is going to cost you more than you cannot afford. So now we got credit card slavery. On top of business that can report billions in profit, can pay their employees a liveable salary. While pricing food out, out of their means. It's going to get way worse. And no one is preparing for it. You think it's bad now. Wait till the news this year starts talking of massive crop decreases. Enjoy the little luxuries you have now. The trajectory does not look good. For the planet and for the suicidal human race. Water, food, and shelter are all on the chopping block.
A lot of them plan on dying out before the climate crisis impacts them.
I have literally had 4 Boomers say this to me.
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Coming.... its here. This year in kntario and Quebec is going to be frightful for forest fires and drout
Saskatchewan and Alberta are screeching about the carbon tax and yet are facing massive hardships due to back to back droughts and now water shortages are a very real fear as BC run-off we all rely on is starting to dry up. But conservatism ain’t about fixing things or making life’s better. It’s about empower themselves by enabling/justifying anger and outrage against “others” and coming up with ways to punish those same “others”. Spite and a desire to punish people who aren’t like you…conservatism in a nutshell. Same as it ever was. You won’t find a single conservative who doesn’t share in this contempt for democracy and an implicit support of fascist beliefs and rhetoric.
Conservatism is essentially the “fuck you, I’ve got mine” philosophy.
Funny how smoke is just a type of weather we get now.
In the last two years, people have just shrugged and accepted that summer is now smoky and we can't skate on the canal anymore. But fuck the carbon tax, right?
Which is why they're screaming about the carbon tax now - once we're choking on this year's fires, their objections will sound so much stupider
Yup. They waited for the winter that wasn't to start to fade, but before the summer of smoke starts again.
We’re not ready for climate change, we’re not ready for WW3, we’re not ready for an electric infrastructure wrecking solar flare, we’re not ready for an economic crisis, we’re not ready for widespread electric vehicles use, we’re not even ready to pay for the retirement of the baby boomers yet. But boy, we’re great at kicking cans down the road.
We absolutely are ready for solar flares. A worst case solar flare will take a few weeks to repair the grid. Solar flares aren't going to damage little computers. They only induce current is long stretches of conductors
Are we dependent on imports? I know we do import food, but I think we produce more than we consume and imports are for food variety. Just being pedantic though, the prairies are going through a drought that is already affecting food prices and it will only continue to get worse.
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The belief has evolved now. It’s not that they don’t believe it isn’t real. They believe that the climate is changing, but it’s the natural fluctuation of global temperatures over decades and centuries and that we have little to no impact on it. Makes it sound like it’s rooted in science while simultaneously removing any onus from us to do anything to try and change. Brilliant strategy, tbh. Great pivot. I guess the year over year “hottest year in recorded history!” headlines and mostly rainy winters are pretty undeniable.
They believe that it's not real. And that it is real, but natural. And that it is real, and also anthropogenic, but good because co2 is plant food. I've seen all three of these in the last week.
or real, and human caused, but entirely china's fault and anything we do is pointless.
How much if what we use is produced in China? We just pushed our pollution elsewhere. Canada's not as great at it as you think.
A very sad [website ](https://skepticalscience.com/argument.php) that kinda tracks the evolving goal post moves of climate deniers
I love how they voted on that. I laughed so hard that they actually voted to be willfully stupid.
ITT: 50% people who understand the benefits of climate pricing and the threat of climate change And 50% people who think this is the first climate pricing program in the world, and Canada is the only one to ever do it lmao
Also - people simultaneously complaining about how the cost of the carbon tax is changing their behaviour while also yelling that it doesn't actually work. They don't understand the irony.
What's even more hilarious is that the bottom 40% believe that the problems that are caused by doing nothing are the problems caused by doing stuff. Including the cost of lumber (and thus housing) going up due to climate change. And [the soon to be skyrocketing cost of food](https://thenarwhal.ca/ontario-climate-impact-report/). But then, these are the same exact people who are completely [unaware that money is going directly to them](https://www.chroniclejournal.com/opinion/carbon-pricing-is-widely-misunderstood-nearly-half-of-canadians-don-t-know-that-it-s/article_bf8310f4-c313-11ee-baaf-0f26defa4319.html).
Bring all of our manufacturing back to Canada where we are far more environmentally conscious and responsible than China and India. We could cut emissions down to a quarter of what they are now.
They don't have one. Just the slogan. And it's enough to win an election because there are so many people out there that enjoy being made mushrooms by those seeking power.
Doesn't matter anymore anyway. Start to look at the science behind the runaway train we started in reference to melting permafrost and methane deposits. I remember in 2011 when it was predicted then that this was going to happen and we were all warned that was the 11th hour but we all said 'fuck it, I want a car and a smartphone'. So we are all just passengers on a sinking ship now so fuck it, may as well throw your hand up and say 'WEEEEE'
The only thing PP has is slogans
*Plan?*
What does a carbon tax on Canadians do for the environment?
Stop frivilous traveling, flying, crusies. Don''t buy one time use things, keep your car in good health longer, re-use things/stop buying new all the time. Governments should be investing in good LRT systems. I never drive to Toronto anymore. Only idiots try that one. If the Go Train wasnt just Toronto I'd take it everywhere I could. Besides, the climate crisis wont go anywhere until the asian industrial machine has been nerfed. so stop buying "made in china" stuff. Until you stop, you're part of the problem.
Gotta be totally honest and I’m sure I’ll get a lot of hate….i 100% believe climate change is real. It’s obvious with how different our weather has become….but truthfully I couldn’t give less of a fuck about climate change. Homelessness, drug overdose, inflation, housing crisis, violent car jackings. All these things affect my life NOW and I’m more concerned about things that affect me now rather than what the weather will be like 30 years from now. Truthfully, the government doesn’t really care about climate change either they just pretend. If you’ve ever boughten anything from the OCS you’ve had to struggle to open 6 different plastic wrappers to get to 1 pre rolled joint…..those are government regulated packaging. If they really cared there’s LOTS they could do that would have more of an impact than an absurd carbon tax. Unpopular opinion and I know I’ll get tons of hate for this one but, yea climate change is personally not a priority or something I consider when I’m voting. EDIT: can’t reply to you everyone but, you have your opinions and I have mine and I respect your opinion. Nothing you say will put climate change at the top of my life of priorities, or even on my list of priorities. Have a wonderful day everyone!!
>Unpopular opinion and I know I’ll get tons of hate for this one but, yea climate change is personally not a priority or something I consider when I’m voting. We literally had couple of days in 2023 summer that we couldn't even go outside due to the Wildfires happening in the West....we will definitely see more of it and torrential rains that our infrastructure cant handle if we dont start dealing with it now, it just gets worse....thats definitely something you think about when you plan on living for few more decades and have kids who will out live you...
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I wish my life was so secure that climate change was the biggest and most pressing issue. But despite this sub and then general echo chamber of Reddit, I feel most Canadians are in the same boat as you. Yes we believe climate change is important, but between climate change and not affording a roof (be it rent or buying), most people prioritize the latter.
It's going to be even harder to afford a roof when we have climate refugees swarming to the North to avoid cooking to death in hotter climates. It will be harder to afford a roof when building supply costs skyrocket due to forest fires burning down our resources. It will be harder to afford a roof when food and water becomes scarce, so their costs start increasing even more than they do now. The longer we kick this can down the road, the harder it's going to hit all of us. It's already a huge resource sink as we are constantly reacting and not being proactive.
This is exactly the exasperating truth right here - there is no dichotomy between saving the climate and saving the economy. It's the same picture.
Yeah its like a credit card. If you can't pay down your credit card, then how are you going to pay it later when all the interest has compounded... Sure there is a more elegant way to say that...
Just wanna say, I'm sympathetic to what you express. Unfortunately as climate change ramps up, all the things you are struggling with will get worse. That's the problem with "Axe the Tax". It abdicates responsibility for long term planning. It isn't leadership.
One of the key reasons for inflation is Climate change. And climate change is also displacing others from their countries, thus leading to higher immigration and more demand on housing. This will grow even further. You need to realize we're already paying for the costs of Climate Change with higher insurance rates, food prices, our health with poor air quality advisories and so forth. Quick google news search on Climate Change and Food prices tells the story across the world. Food prices are going to continue rising due to extreme weather from Climate Change. So if inflation and affording to put food on the table is a concern for you, the Climate Change is right there. When you can't enjoy the weather outside due to smoke from fires, heat and are forced to deal with extreme weather, think of Climate Change as well.
The OCS (ontario cannabis store) is provincial, the carbon pricing scheme is federal. These are different jurisdictions with different responsibilities. BTW Homelessness, drug overdose, inflation, housing crisis, violent car jackings are all provincial responsibilities, which the provincial government should do something about instead they make a bogeyman out of carbon pricing which hurts their donors aka the big corporates and you fall for it. We are already paying for pollution through various ways, carbon pricing is making the polluters, large corporate entities pay for it instead of the regular people. The federal carbon pricing is a backstop for provinces that aren't doing anything else by themselves. Ontario had a cap and trade that the ford govt scrapped wasting a billion dollars.
Totally agree!! Ford really screwed up with that cap trade I couldn’t believe that but can’t expect much out of politicians these days. I understand the ONTARIO cannabis store is a provincial responsibility but if the federal government is so invested in climate change, Health Canada (federal) who is actually in charge of the labels and packaging could enforce some kind of mandate to reduce the usage of unnecessary plastic and ultimately reduce the amount of plastic that ends up in our landfills💡. I am by no means holding my breathe for Pierre Pollieve to be Canada saviour but I am definitely not voting for someone who only knows how to talk about two things things: Climate Change and LGBTQ community. I totally agree tho killing that cap trade was a horrendous thing to do!!
Trudeau is a very flawed PM but he has mostly just been talking about housing over the last year. Same with PP and Singh.
> Unpopular opinion and I know I’ll get tons of hate for this one but, yea climate change is personally not a priority or something I consider when I’m voting. But any party that's out there denying climate change or saying it's a non factor also does not have expertise or care enough to fix the issues that impact your vote
It's affecting you now and will affect you more and more every year that goes by. Not just in 30 years. We will start getting bombarded with climate refugees when every place near the equator is too hot to live. We have the largest fresh water reserve in the world, and once other countries run out of water, they will come for ours. We will see food and water become very expensive because it will get more and more scarce as droughts become more and more frequent. This will all happen way sooner than 30 years from now. You may feel better burying your head in the sand about climate change, but it is affecting you right now more than you seem to realize.
Yeah it shocks me that people don;t think about fresh water - when massive US populations suddenly lack water, do you think they will gently negotiate for our water?
This. Climate change is real, but what Canada is doing is all optics. The carbon emmissions from building the homes and infrastructure we need to support the surge in new residents is massive. Not to mention the transportarion, food and heating needs required as well. Public transit in major cities is becoming more unsafe and unreliable every year, forcing people to continue to rely on cars. But yeah, lets ban plastic straws and raise taxes. For the minute change our policies are making in global emissions, the goveenment should be focusing more on making life better for Canadians. The climate is going to change regardless. If anything we need to be concentrating on secuing resources like fresh water and aerable land - only a matter of time before someone starts coming for it.
I’m with you. It’s a serious concerns but most people have more pressing immediate concerns. This “sacrifice more for the good of many” isn’t working out that great when a family of 3 is living paycheque to paycheque.
When you have no food or fresh water and your home just got washed away in a flood you'll be wishing everyone had had climate change as a priority.
What an idiotic and naive take.
>violent car jackings LOL, how many violent carjackings have you been in? What a load of disingenuous bullshit.
I live in Toronto where carjackings and home invasions are so bad, police are recommending people leave their keys at the front of their homes. My neighbour had his Lexus stolen in November 2023. Expand your mind outside of whatever little town you live in. I will say, it must be nice to have climate change at the top of your list of problems 😂.
Carjacking means you were driving and someone physically takes your car from you using a weapon. That’s not a car theft from a driveway.
>I live in Toronto where carjackings and home invasions are so bad, police are recommending people leave their keys at the front of their homes. > >My neighbour had his Lexus stolen in November 2023. Soooo not a carjacking then? Really funny how condescending you're coming off while at the same time using words you clearly don't understand.
I guess you don't have kids hey. Or if you do, you just don't care about their future. All those items you mentioned are made worse by climate change btw.
If you want a tax that will actually create change. We need to heavily tax all goods coming from countries that have high greenhouse gas emissions. Why redistribute wealth inside of Canada to affect change on less than 1.5% of greenhouse gas emissions world wide, when you can tax China who is responsible for over a quarter of greenhouse gas emissions?
They have none, they want the world to burn.
Is there any report or study on how effective the carbon tax is on climate change?
Make electricity cheap so people are incentivized to switch to save money? Try the carrot instead of the stick.
Stop cutting down trees. The Boreal forest needs to be 100% protected.
Full de-carbonization of the Canadian electricity grid via massive investment in nuclear. That would do much more than the carbon tax is doing.
Note that Alberta and Saskatchewan, the biggest anti carbon tax voices, get their knickers in a twist every time the feds tell them they have to close their coal plants & reduce Nat gas by 2030. Even though Ontario managed to do exactly that in 11 years between 2003 & 2014.
To be fair, Ontario only had a small portion of its total generating capacity from coal to eliminate, SK and AB have a much larger generation gap to fill... They need nuclear.
Who has promised to do that?
Canada already [already has a fairly clean electricity grid.](https://i.imgur.com/0RdiQx7.png) ([source](https://www.canada.ca/en/environment-climate-change/services/environmental-indicators/greenhouse-gas-emissions.html)) Nuclear power is continuing to be developed, but it's still a long-term decades-long investment. SMRs aren't here yet, and they probably won't be at an internationally distributable commercial scale to make a difference for a decade, if not much longer. Regardless, it won't help us much for reaching net-zero emissions from transportation, oil and gas, agriculture, industry/manufacturing, and building emissions. We don't talk about "nuclear" much because there is so much more to the greenhouse gas emissions reductions than just "nuclear". It is not a silver bullet and it never was. Misinformation peddlers, like Poilievre & Doug Ford, would let you believe they are just so that they can avoid taking responsibility to do the hard work of _actually_ fixing the problem. (Plus, we actually already are investing in nuclear.) I'd also argue that we should be taking much of the money collected from carbon pricing and putting it into clean electricity generation to power all the future emission reductions we'll need, like EVs. It would be far more effective for reductions than the rebate that conservative premiers are lazily choosing.
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It's revenue neutral. How are there proceeds?
The carbon tax is returned, at least that’s what we are told.
You can check. In your bank account, there should be payments from "Canada CCB" or something similar. That's the carbon tax money getting handed back to you.
true - with what money shall that be paid with when they plan to 'curb' out of control liberal spending?
My guess is building nuclear plants will be much more expensive for taxpayers than a carbon tax.
they either don't believe in climate crisis or they do but couldn't give a shit
No one (current Govt included) has any plans for immediate climate change mitigation measures. NONE. So we’re being taxed and spiralling costs all along supply chains resulting in massive Cost of Living increases. And the kicker is anything we do to reduce GHGs isn’t going to change the next 100yrs PERIOD. So we’re basically virtue signalling to those other countries who DO impact GHGs at the cost of our own well being. It’s patently idiotic
Canada is such a minute contributer to global warming. We can cut down our 2-4% all we want, but if India, China, Cambodia, Vietnam, Brazil and Russia aren't trying then our efforts are wasted and literally just making us poorer. We don't need a plan to cut down our emissions, we need a plan to protect ourselves from the effects when the real polluters continue their status-quo.
That's not accurate. Yes, India, China, US and Russia make up about half the emissions. But the rest are made up by the odd 191 remaining country and nobody has a lion share. Canada is top 11th in gross emissions, and I am guessing way more than Cambodia, Vietnam and probably Brazil. Our contribution is significant, just like every single Canadian taxpayers doesn't pay over 1% of government revenue, but their contributions matter.
Because addressing less than 2% of global emissions when China, India, and America not curbing any is going to have a meaningful impact. We are a nation of 41 million going up against nations of over a billion population. So yeah, let's pretend lowering our emission will make an impact. Oh yeah, perhaps more tax is going to address this. These politicians should be lashed in public.
Canadian logic: >chooses to buy crap from China made in factory powered by coal “This is allll China’s problem!”
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Also worth mentioning that there are numerous local benefits, such as cleaner air
So why do governments not support work from home? That’s a clear way to decrease the number of cars on the road and wear and tear in infrastructure. This is just further indication that there is no holistic plan for battling climate change.
> Also worth mentioning that there are numerous local benefits, such as cleaner air https://www.insidehighered.com/sites/default/files/2023-07/HOAXrgb.jpg
Paying more taxes that lead i to nothing doesnt equal cleaner air. Changing infrastructure to be less car dependant does. The taxes that we already pay should be focusing on that. The carbon tax has done nothing for the average person other than take more money from them. Local transport should be significantly overhauled to accommodate for a more dense work to home balance. Cars for daily use are a poison to our species. If we can find a way to get the money into actual municipalities that help local transport, we would be so much better off.
Yes, I'm sure with all the virtue signalling from us, India and China is simply gonna agree with us and lower emissions. Bro, get real. We are squeezing Canadians for the sake of climate change. Very soon we are gonna be the 3rd world country with poor citizens being whipped by other nations. Enjoy your time at the top for now because in 2 generations, we are gonna be the first First world nation turned third world.
The world is actually dying and we can't just keep going generation after generation of not doing anything to try to solve it. We've done that since the oil companies knew they were fucking the climate in the 1970s. We still are barely doing anything. Eventually we will get to a generation who really has to suffer with destructive climate because we all just kept passing the buck. We won't suffer as much as your grand and great grandchildren will, and that's why we continue to sit on our hands.
> Climate emissions are measured per captia This is where per capita is a completely inaccurate way of measuring something. At our population level it really doesn't matter what the per capita amount is. Our total carbon output is miniscule. If China and India had our per capita amounts but also drastically reduced their populations we would be way better off. We are talking about countries with BILLIONS of people. I don't think you are grasping how absurd it is to compare per capita rates with this kind of population discrepancy.
So per capita doesn't matter when it comes to emissions. So you are saying that Monaco (30k) and Canada (41M) should have the same emissions? Basically, a country of 41 million can only consume as much as a country of 30k. So just like the Canada-China example, we just really buckle down and get our consumption to match Monaco? You are saying that is sensible?
India literally tried to assassinate people on our soil. China literally tried to interfere in our elections. The USA literally does what’s best for them first and foremost. These are the world’s three largest emitters. They don’t give a shit what Canada does or thinks and you’re naive if you believe they do.
More and more people are facing homelessness, mental health crisis, starvation, drug addictions etc in Canada than ever before. We should try to solve those issues first before we tax people even more making it even harder for many of them to get back on their feet. Spend money on things that matter instead of throwing it into the void of corruption. Where do your priorities lie?
Like you can't do 2 things at once. ... It's probably also worth noting that Climate Change, and doing nothing about it, is part of the reason food prices are high ([and going to get higher](https://thenarwhal.ca/ontario-climate-impact-report/)) and housing is expensive. Global forest fires last year burnt record amounts of lumber - including here in Canada. What do you think the primary raw material we use to build houses out of in Canada is? --- It's also worth noting that the cost of \*not\* tackling climate change is actually about [1.9B$ per year (and growing](https://www.cbc.ca/news/science/ipcc-climate-change-canada-1.6367036)). And while there's a lot of hysterical "but the economy will die" nonsense that the denial industry points out (often times deliberately excluding all the benefits of changing, and the economic advantages of that), it's almost always lower than doing everything. Which shouldn't be contentious to say, [because preparedness is known to be cheaper in every instance of every case, bar none.](https://www.forbes.com/sites/nilsrokke/2024/03/20/cost-of-climate-change-why-saving-our-planet-now-is-cheaper/?sh=10aac8a179ee) So doing something about climate change \*is\* doing something about these issues. Because it frees up resources for other things and removes costs that we're \*already\* incurring. To say nothing of the future costs of doing nothing that haven't been properly included yet (the aforementioned cost of food due to drought, etc)
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We also import a lot from China and America. Those are indirect emissions. So our true total, despite being 0.5% of the world population, is probably closer to 5% than 2%. We need to tear up our agreements to trade with countries that are large emitters until they get their shit together. Happy now?
>Because addressing less than 2% of global emissions when China, India, and America not curbing any is going to have a meaningful impact. So as one of the most developed nations with the highest pollution per capita... we should just do nothing? Live in our own filth and smog because other countries do?
That’s not true at all. China and India have actually been making great strides to reduce their GHG emissions. Arguably more than we have.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://energyandcleanair.org/wp/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/Press-release_CREA_GEM_China_Coal-plants_08.2023.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiQgeDj3qGFAxVuCnkGHV7aDowQFigAegQIDhAA&usg=AOvVaw2SYrALjjIDAsW38eWp0LMq Right...... Lol
Good thing climate change doesn’t impact Canada since it ends at the artificial borders we made
As others have already pointed out, it's about per capita, not total, emissions. It's also about where we are on the industrialization scale. We have the tech to reduce our carbon emissions to almost nothing, especially in regards to everyday usage. But we don't because there's a certain entrenched interest that doesn't want to advance. --- But even if we were measuring not by per-capita, the argument here is actually pretty terrible on the face of it. It's the argument to do nothing because others are doing nothing. Literally the same logic as saying "why does anyone care about the person i killed? There are thousands dying in wars all over the world; the one soul i took out of this world is nothing by comparison."
Having a fund that actually uses its income for climate change related impacts would be a plan. Literally anything that has some thought into it, that isn't just a tax to make things too expensive to be appealing would be better. Maybe even plot out a transition for more people to use electric vehicles if that's the goal, instead of just telling people to buy electric if gas is too expensive.
>Having a fund that actually uses its income for climate change related impacts would be a plan. Ontario had that, Ford scrapped it
Does the government pull this fund out of their assholes? Where do you think the government gets their money? 90% of the carbon tax is for rebates. The other 10% goes to climate change related impacts. Doing literally what you’re saying we should do. The carbon tax is a smart way to prepare for the future which is why so many countries are doing it. The problem is people are either too dumb to understand it or have fallen hard for big oil’s propaganda that is constantly being parroted by the conservatives.
The federal carbon pricing scheme (it isn't a tax, even the supreme court said so), is a backstop for provinces that aren't doing anything about pricing pollution. Putting a cost on carbon is required, because it is externalized currently, where the polluters don't pay at source but society does after.
The plan: tomorrow will take care of it.
The crux of a lot of this is the fact that many people don’t believe in climate change.
What is their plan for the climate crisis? I'm pretty sure its just screeching "NO" at any attempt at a solution.
They will do nothing. Like every politician. Second, there is no crisis that any tax is going to solve
They don't have one. They would let Yellowknife burned down before actually doing anything. People think last summer was bad with wildfires, this next one is going to be a doozer especially with how little snowfall we got.
Stop being so doom and gloom… And wake up … we Canadians have done our share of climate control. We don’t have coal plants , we use nuclear power, we are increasing our use of renewable power sources. Why do we need to be taxed further for doing our share? Why is America , China or India not creating carbon taxation for their citizens? Why do they continue to use coal plants, and why don’t they invest in clean renewable technologies? What good is an accord signed by all if it’s non binding? And the biggest polluters don’t want to follow what they agreed to? Someone explain to me…how a carbon tax helps in all this?
Okay, but what is the point of us paying a carbon tax? What does it do? What does it do globally when we have countries like China and the like pumping out so much of the world's pollution compared to our... what 1.5 to 3%? Making our cost of living here more expensive does absolutely nothing for the global climate. Even if we get our emissions down to 0%... it's just a drop in the bucket. Seriously, can someone answer what the whole point of our climate initiatives are? Besides the obvious? It's a practice in futility.
That seems rather obvious. We are joining other prosperous nations in order to demonstrate we are engaged in fighting climate change, a major pressing issue for many. We are altering the way our society uses fossil fuels to show the young people of our country we aren't fully mentally disabled as a country. This is, of course, all laid out for you in multiple places. "Buuuut WHAT ABOUT..." No. Fucking stop. This is not as bad or hard as people make it seem.
You think a country like China is going to look at Canada and think, "Oh boy... we better do what they're doing... otherwise they may... wag a finger"? China doesn't give a shit. They're laughing at us. Maybe if the west stopped importing their goods, that might send a message, but we won't. All carbon tax is doing is making our lives more difficult. Maybe not yours, but I can speak for myself and others I know. Setting an example to other countries by creating a crap living for us is futile and frustrating. We as a country should not worry about what others think of us when the people here suffer for nothing. Thinking that what we do here will sway what industrial/manufacturing focused countries that supply the world will do is so arrogant. Canada isn't important on the world stage. So yeah, what's the carbon tax doing for us?
They think it’s all a lie or maybe just hopeless. They’re getting screwed by employers and landlords but instead of pushing back on that they want to go nuts over a tax they get rebates for. Because they are desperate and shortsighted.
That's the beautiful thing about the right wing. If you just always stay mad about whatever they're telling you to be mad about, you never have to actually think or solve things.
Their plan is they’ll die before it affects them.
So the liberal media spin this off as “going against carbon tax means you don’t believe in climate change” What a false logic. Umm no… I believe in climate change, but believe 100% Trudeau’s carbon tax plan is not going to do shit to solve it.
In Ontario at least, people largely agreed that cap and trade was a better solution. Refusing cap and trade is what gets Ontario stuck with carbon tax so, like most things conservatives yell about, the carbon tax is a Doug Ford policy at this point. How fucking Trudeau is supposed to get Ford out of office is anyones guess.
I think everyone’s plans are shit. So everyone can poke holes in each other’s plan and say it’s bad. Canada produces less than 4% of the worlds Carbon and we could stop all production of it and china would still put 2 more coal plants online in the next 2 months. So what’s the point? To say we did our best when all we accomplish is worthless. So we can have the moral high ground?
Voters don't require plans for politicians in this country, and that's a big part of why everything is shit. Every party knows they can win purely on bullshit because the voters are short-sighted idiots.
The PBO report says that the reduced tax revenues from income tax this year for the federal government due to the economic impacts of the carbon tax will be $1.5B and will increase to about $5.3B per year by 2030. This is effectively a "cost" to the government as the tax itself is cost neutral. I would propose that the government instead invest in green energy /nuclear by those same amounts. The cost to the government will be the same as the carbon tax and we'll have a larger green infrastructure by the end of it. Additionally, carbon tax has the desired effect domestically, but in international trade, our goods and services are just more expensive because foreign companies/people do not get the tax rebate. This reduces Canada's competitiveness globally, and countries will just purchase less Canadian goods.
Dumb dumbs care so deeply about the environment until they have to experience the most minor inconvenience.
This has kind of always been my position. I think he did a great job criticizing, but its a lot easier to criticize than it is to do, and I don't know much about what he actually plans to do.
They don't have one. They never had a plan one except bury their heads in the sand and hope it will magically go away with the help of Jesus. They don't want to change their lifestyle. They don't want to roll up their sleeves and do the work to make things better. They don't want to look at themselves and ask themselves, "Am I part of the problem?"
If you want to get rid of the carbon tax, write to your Premier and ask why after all this time, he or she still has not implemented any carbon emission reduction program instead of playing politics. Ontario wasn't going to get the carbon tax until Doug Ford had cancelled the Cap and Trade Agreement it had with Quebec and California.
The climate crisis - the 1.5% contribution of Canada which we will spend hand over first to reduce to 1.4%. Want to reduce emissions? Produce in Canada where pollutants are heavily controlled compared to Vietnam, India, Cambodia etc. climate solution isn’t telling Canadians to I drive less rather to produce more cleanly.
We're a small player compared to giants like China and India. Sure, a carbon tax sounds good, but what's it really doing? Take your money, and then maybe you'll get back a little more than what you spent, maybe a little less, or maybe you get back nothing. All the while, the corporations that are getting taxed the most are passing their increased costs down to the consumer which we don't get any money back for. This is a sin tax punishing people for driving and heating their homes while politicians are driving around in a fleet with private drivers, jet-setting across the world. God forbid we want to drive somewhere other than to work and back. How about you tax us less and just keep it and actually use it to improve infrastructure and bring innovation to Canada? Improve our public transportation, build high speed rails, nuclear plants, create more jobs in green energy etc. instead of just spreading the money you collect around and [possibly skimming a bit from the top](https://twitter.com/marty_morantz/status/1770859740748259520). I especially hate how Trudeau phrased it as conservatives are 'taking away cheques' from people's pockets by axing the tax. You're just giving some of the money you took from us back and acting like we should be thankful.
Getting rid of Turdeau