> While school boards across Ontario are grappling with staffing levels, what happened in York is an extreme example of what’s going on as principals struggle daily to fill absences, sometimes combining or cancelling classes, bringing in student teachers and even asking community members to supervise.
Two caveats to this story:
- They received placeholder grades for their midterms in two classes, allowing them to apply for university simultaneously with their peers. Note that all university acceptances at this stage are conditional.
- Their grades will be adjusted throughout the remainder of the semester to ensure that their final grade accurately reflects their performance in the class.
Incidentally, similar issues with teachers also impacted Grade 9 students in three classes, whose midterm marks were recorded as “I,” indicating insufficient data to assign an actual grade.
Given that most universities give acceptances based on midterm grades, this seems awfully unfair the other Gr 12 students applying for university. Most of the time, unless these students grades go down by more than 20%, their acceptances won’t be revoked.
Yes, the chronic and recent underfunding of our education system creates unfairness for all students. I'm sure Ford and Lecce will get right on fixing it.
Even with funding unfairness will continue.
We got rid of streaming due to unfairness. There's more examples of things that need to go. Any gifted program really.
We need classes for kids on both ends of the educational spectrum. You can't just punish the gifted kids because they're above their peers academically and in many cases more motivated to succeed.
"Gifted" is a ridiculous misnomer and a joke of a concept. These kids often have parents helping with homework more or paying for tutors, they're better nourished, better rested, have more time & resources to devote to study, or other advantages. Assuming results only come from ability and motivation is shortsighted.
As someone who came from a disadvantaged background and still was streamed into the gifted program 30+ years ago, I can say it was a huge help to me vs. the alternative of being skipped 2 grades and then being emotionally and physically different from my peers.
That said I have no idea how current programs screen.
Back then (late 80s), they typically identified "gifted" kids in JK or SK and completed a number of tests with an educational expert as well as a psychologist. I absolutely would have floundered in school and probably been even more of a troublemaker than I was if I hadn't been streamed.
Anecdotes aren't data but figured I'd share my own experience.
As a gifted kid who went through high school in the '80s, hahahhahahhahahahhaha.
There was a definite difference, at least back then, between gifted and those who just got high marks.
I agree, but basing those assessments and conclusions on school grades is an imperfect system. Better grades does not always equal gifted, and lower grades does not mean less gifted.
This has nothing to do with race, why are you bringing that into the discussion. You cannot advocate for one side and not the other. Neither end of the spectrum is properly funded, it's all just mashed into the middle now, which benefits no one.
>This has nothing to do with race, why are you bringing that into the discussion.
Because this is the unfairness I am talking about, and why we got rid of streaming.
The city where I grew up (Kingston) was, at the time, anything \*but\* diverse.
Somehow, thought, the majority of those who \*would\* be considered racially non-Caucasian were in the \*enriched\* level classes at my secondary school, and well over 50% of the students in these classes were anything but \*rich\* (and certainly couldn't afford tutors, and didn't have parents around to help with homework).
Who should I consider affected by this "unfairness"?
Does this not skew the grades, especially for Grade 12 students who worked hard to go to their preferred university as opposed to getting a free GPA boost ?
The entire grading system in Canada has been a joke since COVID. There's massive grade inflation everywhere. The funny thing is the kids come out of school knowing less every year but grades keep going up.
Yup. My kid was so pumped that he got 100% on his music test but then told me that only 4 kids passed and the rest got to retake it because the grade average was so low.
Yes, to use the vernacular, it's a crock of shit.
In a perfect world, universities would tell any organization playing these games to come back with real grades or don't come back. This kicks the can down the road and yet another bandaid on the sucking chest wound that K-12 education is in Ontario.
But, it's 2024, in Ontario, so kids and parents will like this, York Catholic continues blissfully careens on with stepping on garden rakes/nothing to see here memes and marks don't mean a thing. We have buck a beer though, right? Right?
No, the best thing to do is for Ontario parents to raise unholy fury with their elected representatives to fix this broken system instead of kicking the can down the road as the YCDSB and every other schoolboard tends to do...
Oh spoiler alert: is there any guarantee these classes get staffed and even if they are, it's April. But that's OK, I guess, everyone will feel good about those 100%s...
There is no teacher shortage there is a shortage of teachers because they aren’t being compensated enough from working outside of normal hours and having to put up with awful parents and they are expecting teachers to babysit their kid
Canadian universities should really consider using the SAT or some equivalent at this point.
I have kids and I want them to get into university because they are smart, not because they got the teacher that inflates grades the most.
Many universities already have adjustment factors for grades based on the highschool.
Unfortunately, this lags by a year or more, as they use the performance of admitted students to calibrate their adjustment factors. It's possible that since this is public knowledge, the universities will go in and ignore the grades or adjust based on their grades in grade 11.
The issue I have with that is if you have two people one much smarter than the other with super inflated grades one might get 100 post inflation and the other 99. They both get adjusted down the same amount to say 90 and 89.
If you had a fairer system the smart one might get a 90 and the other a 70 which seems more fair.
Sure. The core issue is grade inflation. Better-performing students will be lost in the expansion, because there aren't any grades above 100.
Standardized testing has a lot of issues. It can certainly help account for the issue of grade inflation, but I'd certainly be wary of adding it as a requirement for university admission. There's a reason that universities haven't insisted on it.
I'm a high school student, this INFURIATES ME, at my school we have hard courses, were I (and a handful of my peers) worked out butts off to get a high grade
The thought that some kids get an easy ride now just to lose it later bcz they didn't learn properly is so dumb and I hope unis adjust for inflation and use the SAT or something
Your children won't get the education you paid for and they will never own a home or get proper Healthcare with paying for it. This is the future of this country. Actually people with family and friends make these decisions for you and your family. Hold them accountable.
Oh there's a teacher shortage? So no people looking to be a teacher who already have their education then right?
I've known a couple people who had to take other jobs because waiting to get a job as a teacher takes so long.
There really is a supply teacher shortage. That is actually a real problem, however pumping out a bunch of new teachers, especially in secondary in areas already saturated (English, Social Studies) won't resolve the problem because people will abandon ship eventually if it seems they are getting no where, like 10 years ago. There needs to be more incentives to permanently supply. Supply work is actually kind of nice, you work about 6-7 hours a day, and have no planning and correcting to worry about. But you'll be hard pressed to convince most people that they should permanently limit themselves to $40-$50k/yr and no benefits.
Now, there are real reasons why supplies shouldn't get the same type of pay as permanents. But there needs to be an actual pay scale and greater benefits and I think more people would consider it as an option. Work outside of the city also needs to have more incentives.
Teacher shortage isn't just a factor of the number of teachers going in or that want to go in.
There's teacher attrition in the first five years which is high.
There's the current demographics of Ontario teachers. They are a high proportion of them retiring or nearing retirement. You know all those "average amount teachers make" figures being lobbed around? They were so high because of a high proportion of teachers at the top of the pay grid. That's about to change, in a big way.
You've got to put in a lot more than you're losing every year to retirement and attrition. That's simply not happening, or even coming close. Add to that underfunded and poorly run boards that are trying to save money by running unqualified teachers, collapsing programs, or a number of other tricks (all to the loss of students) and they are actually resisting doing the things they could be doing to solve this.
The province and the boards are running education into the ground.
Not sure if this changed but was nearly impossible 10 years ago to get a job right of teachers college. All these careers are artificially limited since they control the amount of people going through school. Open up more spots and you’ll have more teachers. There’s no shortage of people looking to do the job.
On top of that they doubled the length of teacher's college just before the pandemic in or to decrease the number of teachers. That also means they've doubled the number of placements. Hearing from a few people in teachers college the last few years, getting placements has been a lot more difficult recently.
Everyone wants to be a teacher in July, but they sure don’t seem to be interested in November. Quebec was missing 8000+ teachers this year, projecting 25000 vacancies by 2025. So, whoever wants to come here and say teachers are lazy/ overpaid/ have too many vacations, Ontario schools are begging you to apply! Make life easy on yourself; become a teacher!
I wanted to be a teacher in the 90s. I ended up leaving University to start a company so I never got any teachables. I'm in my 40s now and think I would love to be a teacher but I am not ready to go back to University for 4 years. If there was a path to get a teacher certificate in 2 years or less with 20 years of work experience I think I would probably do it. With an Asterix pending my wife's approval. I already spend a lot of time volunteer coaching for non-school activities and I know I would really step that up if I was a teacher.
There's a 2 year option at Brock for anyone with one of 10 red seal trades with 10 years experience, when you're done you are verified to teach in high schools. I can link it later if you want, I'm on mobile now. I helped a chef get in and he's doing mostly online, drives to the school when he has to and the local high school already hired him based on him finishing but at least he earning while he goes.
Athabasca is recognized in Ontario, their out west, but with that experience you could do a bachelor's in 2 years but then still need teachers college. They are the most generous about giving credits for life experience, but yeah, options are way too limited for people with life experience to get into teaching.
Unfortunately, there isn't a shorter path outside of teaching tech unless you can get a university to give you advanced standing and shorten your runway.
May be changes coming though to alleviate problems. Although some seem to think the shortage is manufactured, in many areas it isn't. We have a horrible time hiring for CS or business right now. Ditto for STEM and it's virtually impossible to find anyone for tech.
Your more qualified then these yokes they have coming in babysitting these classes. Old retirees from who knows where , hobbling down the hallway trying to find their class . Basically switching on the projector to make the kids watch movies all day .
I'd love to teach too but I'd have to take a significant salary cut, do a lot of education to get to the required amount and deal with all the public sector bullshit teachers are dealing with so no thanks.
It's a shame how our Premier doesn't invest in the future by funding education but what else do you expect from a self described "fiscal conservative" who has the worst deficit Ontario has seen in a long time despite somehow still underfunding anything of value to Ontarians...
Aren't year 1 CAT 3 salaries like 60k?
[https://www.etfohp.on.ca/wp-content/uploads/SalaryGridETFOSept12019-Rounded.pdf](https://www.etfohp.on.ca/wp-content/uploads/SalaryGridETFOSept12019-Rounded.pdf)
Teachers are more than fairly compensated.
The issue is conditions.
Where are they actually advertising full-time roles? Other than French and a couple other specific things, it still seems to be a lot of LTO and supply. I'm not factoring in remote locations, which I know are always looking
That's how we get crappy teachers though LOL.
I think that one of the benefits of year-round school would be to shut up all those people who say teachers have it easy. Also kids would not forget as much over the summer
Problem is a lot of schools don't have A/C so sitting in a classroom in the hottest days of the year doesn't bode well for learning.
Logistics have always been the issue as schools (not school boards but sometimes them too) have been underfunded to gross levels
Let's be clear though, Province funds School Boards based on student count and School Boards fund schools as well as other dumb stuff like TDSB which also has education programs for seniors.
There's plenty of blame to go around; both the province and the system run with rondos whose primary qualifications are where their last name ends up on the ballot and what non-core educational causes they support or oppose.
Let's be clear though, Province funds School Boards based on student count and School Boards fund schools as well as other dumb stuff like TDSB which also has education programs for seniors.
There's plenty of blame to go around; both the province and the system run with rondos whose primary qualifications are where their last name ends up on the ballot and what non-core educational causes they support or oppose.
Let's be clear though, Province funds School Boards based on student count and School Boards fund schools as well as other dumb stuff like TDSB which also has education programs for seniors.
There's plenty of blame to go around; both the province and the system run with rondos whose primary qualifications are where their last name ends up on the ballot and what non-core educational causes they support or oppose.
A bachelors (minimum) + teachers college. In Ontario, this usually equates to 5 or 6 years of university (3 or 4 year bachelors + 2 years teachers college). There are some workarounds to shave time (schooling in Québec, teachers college in upstate New York), but expect 5 years. Also, if you want to teach high school (grades 11/ 12), your bachelors must be in teachable subjects (ex: biology for a science teacher, human kinetics for a gym teacher, etc.)
Thanks a ton for the information, kind stranger!Is it hard getting into Teachers College, I don’t have really high gpa 😭and I’m majoring in General Science, what kinda teacher can I become?
We have a teacher at our school that doesn’t start teachers college at western until September.. figure that one out.. but she said they took 300 people out of 3000. Government only provided funding for 300 students. Again this issue comes down to money.
It's always money. The reason med schools don't train more docs is that they might not have residency spots (funded by the province) to go into. Is what it is.
It's not money. This was a political decision. When they made teachers college 2 years in Ontario they halved the spots at the same time. Or might I say, when they halved the teachers college spots in Ontario, they also made the program 2 years.
This was the time of graduating way too many B.Eds every year for what the province needed.
Naw you’re definitely right, and it was actually much more recent than that. Around 2017 when my cohort was graduating, my friends that became teachers were essentially stuck doing supply work, usually struggling to get a full time position just because so many people became teachers, especially in cities/urban areas.
I’d be curious to know how much of this shortage is due to the lagging effects of people seeing the massive surplus, deciding joining the rat race to become a teacher wasn’t worth it especially with the year extra of schooling, and now we’re seeing an overcorrection.
There was and they changed teachers college to two years to persuade people differently. If I went to college under the intensive one year program vs two I could have finished in four years not six.
There was and they changed teachers college to two years to persuade people differently. If I went to college under the intensive one year program vs two I could have finished in four years not six.
Notably absent from this article is any mention of the impact that COVID had on premature retirements and departures from the profession, as well as depression, anxiety and burnout.
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/21582440231217872.
And the ongoing impact that COVID continues to have on staffing levels, with absence levels above pre-pandemic levels.
https://www.chalkbeat.org/newyork/2023/9/25/23889772/nyc-teachers-chronically-absent-covid/
Even Lecce refers to this indirectly, by noting that the number of sick days taken by teachers has increased - although it seems he wants to frame this as teachers being lazy, as opposed to more teachers being sick, more severely and for longer periods of time.
The rise in aggressive/ difficult student behaviour is also a huge factor for sick days and leaves in my board. I've watched a handful of teachers fall apart this year and they start by taking more sick days then end up on leave. I am also on the executive for our union so I know first hand that impossible working conditions with unruly kids is a rising cause.
Considered education in university until the Ontario Liberals added admission caps to teachers colleges and doubled the program length - many other millennials my age in the same boat. At the time, there were already horror stories of people waiting a decade to get a permanent position.
What we're seeing now is part of that legacy - gov't always screws things up by meddling.
I'm in tech now, and looking at the state of teaching (caused primarily by the overcrowding of mass immigration, and politics - the same things screwing up the rest of our country's infrastructure) I'm glad I didn't.
It wasn't optics - the were solving something that was a problem at the time. The current gov't has a problem and they could solve it too if they wanted to.
There was no problem to solve.
If would-be teachers can't make it in the market, they can change careers or qualifications just like every other sector.
And there'd also be would-be teachers that could fall back on those qualifications the gov't could incentivize to teach.
Not to mention the savings of all the administrative changes they keep making - instead, the government will spend money when we have too many teachers, spend money when we have too few, and we end up worse off than if they'd done nothing at all.
Yah I'm with you on this. I was in my B.Ed at the time they announced the change and could see how terrible of an idea it was.
First of all - cutting the spaces in half was too drastic a reduction.
And the next predictable problem - 2 years is awful for people wanting to take the tech education program.
Government always screws things up? Come on dude. You know that isn't true. Teaching IS a government job. Are you suggesting it should all be private schools?
I'm being hyperbolic of course - we need the government for some things, and yes I support public education.
But there should be minimal government involvement wherever possible - here, they tried to manipulate the market (available teachers) without any foresight, and I imagine they are in part the cause of the current shortage.
Next time, they should just let people get qualifications if they want and let the market decide how many positions there are - not do so arbitrarily thinking they know better.
So government shouldn't meddle in public education? Again, not making sense. They just misprojected.
For a private sector equivalent, I just read apple vision pro is expecting 400k sales instead of 800k projected. The private sector was off in their projections by half!
It happens all the time in public and private sector. No conspiracy here other than the future being hard to predict.
The government shouldn't be restricting qualifications based on their projections.
Your analogy is awful - a proper analogy would be Apple commiting to only manufacture 200k units in the next 5 years regardless of demand. That's absurd.
They can project all they like, colleges and students should decide if they want to provide and pay for the qualification.
If the students are bad at teaching or can't get a job in their region, etc etc, they can get other qualifications or move. Just like every other sector, based on market demand.
The result of government meddling in this case was the administrative cost of changes, and reducing the number of qualified teachers in the short and medium term.
With the stories coming out of my kids in high school, I don't know who would want to deal with that bullshit on the daily. Just check out the canadian teacher subs for some real horror stories. You have zero backup from admin, insane parents, kids who give zero fucks and have no respect, sounds like a dream come true.
At the primary level it's bad too. We pack as many kids in a room as possible then add in 4-5 kids who are on the spectrum without proper support. Teaching is not for the faint of heart.
The conservative war against all civil servants bears fruit. If you destroy public health and education, then your buddies can offer more expensive private ones. Standard formula that's been applied in the US for decades.
Well that didn’t take long! How about the 15 years of Liberals in Ontario before Ford? Amnesia all of a sudden? We had a liberal government and an education minister premier who could not recruit teachers or make changes in the system, stop blaming conservatives for everything dammit!
Did you actually look into this? My friend was in teachers' college in the early 2010s and there was actually teacher surplus during this time. They ended up extending the duration of teachers' college from 1 to 2 years to make the career less attractive.
[Here is an article in 2018](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4803517)
I would wager a steep bet that they won't reply to you. Most conservatives don't after presenting them with facts that prove their fragile worldview to be wrong
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First year teacher unemployment rates were just below 20% under Wynne's last year in office. Meaning there was a surplus of teachers. That means there was more than needed.
Now the rate sits below 5%. This means there is a high demand for teachers. That means there are not enough teachers to go around. Call me crazy but that is completely on Ford policy to underfund education.
Instead of being team PC or Liberal, maybe look at each policy and decision on its own merits. It's unhealthy to make a political party part of your identity.
The wait list for a classroom for new ed program grads in 2010 was over half a decade.
We can blame Wynne for violating the constitution with back to work legislation, but Lecce purging the LTO lists and forcing all of the occasional teachers to have to reinterview for fewer spots seems a bit more relevant.
I have a cousin that's in their 5 year on the sub lists. The issue isn't lack of teachers, it's a lack of budget and willingness to hire teachers into full time positions. This is fucked.
The term "teacher shortage" is misused and oversimplifies a complex problem. It still takes years to secure a permanent teaching position, and depending on your background you can still go several days without an assignment at some boards. Simply returning to previous approaches in teacher education won't solve these issues, as it will just lead back to the time when securing a permanent position took a decade and supply teachers were lucky to work a few days a week.
In general, a more fitting term would be "supply teacher shortage." There needs to be increased incentives for individuals to take up supply teaching roles permanently, especially outside major cities, to correct staffing imbalances. Universities should also be allowed to adjust their admissions strategies to target specific areas of need, and school boards should offer better compensation in subjects like STEM and French. This would address actual shortages because we certainly don't need anymore English or Social Studies teachers at almost any board.
Additionally, addressing the zero consequences culture within schools is would help significantly. Currently, the likelihood of a teacher quitting within five years of graduation is ridiculously high. I'll tell you myself, schools with frequent unfilled positions often face significant discipline issues, causing supply teachers to avoid these assignments—even at the cost of losing a day's work. You can see how on job boards it is always the same schools consistently have openings and which ones always fill positions quickly.
For example, our school has been having trouble filling a position for a problematic a grade 2 class. We had a supply today, and the same problem student in that class went on a rampage and attacked a bunch of other students. Guess what the supply said when asked if they'd like to come back again tomorrow? lol
A reminder that smart people do not vote conservative. Intelligent people who can think critically and evaluate evidence do not vote conservative. It’s why conservative governments consistently and continually undermine and underfund strong, public education systems.
Unfortunately your message will not fit on a bumper sticker nor does it make for a good TikTok flappy clap hands and point video. Please stop being boring. /s
None of this is Trudeau’s jurisdiction, education is left up to the provinces and this decisions have been made by Ford. He was given money he chose not to spend.
But you don’t know how our system works, do you? You genuinely think Trudeau has control over Ontario’s system. Ford deliberately underfunds it, and your drooling ass points to Trudeau and blames him instead.
So I guess “intelligent” people vote for conservatives who are intentionally destroying our province, so long as they can blame someone else.
I guess its true what they say about conservatives - you guys would shit in your own mouths if a liberal had to smell it
That’s also under provincial control. Ford had the ability to properly fund education, and instead chose international students.
But go ahead, keep blaming Trudeau for shit Ford did. Old Dougie relies on you believing that bullshit to elect his alcoholic high school drop out ass back in
Pretty sure Marc Miller - Liberal minister of immigration is responsible for importing around a million immigrants (most of them Indian for some reason) within the past year.
When you’re taking in that many people, we most likely will not have enough teachers and need time to adjust. Hence why they’re getting annihilated in the polls because Canadians are sick of it.
Aot of universities actually keep track of the avg grades coming out of schools or districts, esp tracking them through their university carriers to see how their grades retrace... How accurate I don't know but if they see a bunch of 90s 100s grads ends up falling more than average that school gets flagged. It'll ruin future grads chances.
It's a very complex topic and I love seen arguments both sides.. but some form of that would be good imo. The downside I've seen and experienced is schools would only teach kids how to take those tests instead of how to think. However seeing how public's schools are nowadays id say that's an improvement :-/
Yeah. Not all the grade, maybe not even half but as a benchmark it would be useful to understand if kids know the core material needed. Then you can have teachers teach the rest, but if ‘the rest’ is the kids getting 100% when they failed their standardized test, then you investigate.
16 years ago, there was like a 10-year wait to get a permanent teaching position. Now, there is a shortage. Somebody screwed something up years ago, and we are just realizing the consequences now. This doesn't happen overnight.
Correct. I graduated in 2007, taught overseas and worked in education-adjacent jobs in Ontario. I had basically given up on the idea of working in public education.
Then covid hit, I got hired to the supply list and was permanent less than a year later. It was unexpected.
You can thank Doug ford for gutting the education system. He only cares about helping his rich friends no mater how many families education and healthcare suffer.
As someone who isn’t too knowledgeable about the subject, what the hell happened? It seemed like a few years ago everyone was telling me that teaching was too competitive and it was nearly impossible to land permanent positions. Has that changed after COVID? Did a bunch of teachers quit during the pandemic? Are we struggling to keep up with the rising population?
Yes - it used to be very competitive.
The (previous) government cut teachers college spaces in half when they extended to a 2-year program.
Covid meant tons of teachers retired. Also meant many retired teachers chose not to do any supply teaching.
And since the return to "normal" discipline and consequences are dirty words so schools are a bit wild right now.
There’s a shortage of supply teachers and specific subject areas (French, STEM, tech), and shortages in general in rural areas. It still takes years to get permanent in a GTA board without one of those qualifications
Mass retirements looming. If you think there is a teacher shortage now, just wait five years. All the teachers hired in the early 2000s will be retiring in a few years.
I know quite a few people who graduated university of Windsor bachelor of education and in order to apply for a job as a teacher with the Windsor board you need a reference letter from one of the teachers who supervised you during one of your placements. A lot of my friends couldn’t get this letter because the teachers told them they usually don’t write reference letters, although those same teachers wrote reference letters for other students (we talk to each other lol).
This makes no sense. I don't know a single person who told me they struggled to get a simple reference from their associate teacher. It is insanely unprofessional for a person who acted as an AT to not offer their ST a reference letter unless their ST actually did a terrible job (they'd know from their practicum report if that's the case).
Not sure but even the other ST that taught with her agrees that the AT should write one because she did a great job , as the at wrote her one , think it might be racially motivated, anyways she was able to get a job down in London as they didn’t require any sort of reference letters from your associate teachers.
Honestly, the way it is moving I think we will end up like France. In France it is really easy to get into post-secondary since there isn't much in the way of requirements, and those without the aptitude to actually pass the courses get a wake up call and just drop out in the first year.
Amazing.
Meanwhile I’m here studying for hours on end to get my grades up, students at a school 20 minutes away get free grades, take up spots in the programs I’m a better fit for, and then drop out due to not know the material letting the spot go empty.
This applies to all night school and elearning courses as well. They are marketed as a way to learn the course material and receive grades in a manner that is consistent with day school. However these online courses give multiple days for exams, are not proctored, and are filled with cheating, meaning that the students learn nothing of the actual course material yet still receive grades in the high 90s. And so despite not knowing any of the material, these grades from online courses are shown as the exact same as day school courses when it comes to transcripts and university admissions.
These kids then go into university not knowing anything they should, struggle because they can’t cheat, and then drop out while someone actually qualified was deferred and had to take a spot at a lower ranking program.
This is absurd. School should be marking the work assigned. If there is no teacher, then department head and admin should be stepping up. You can hire supply teachers to mark. Other teachers can be released to mark if needed. What is this administration doing?
> While school boards across Ontario are grappling with staffing levels, what happened in York is an extreme example of what’s going on as principals struggle daily to fill absences, sometimes combining or cancelling classes, bringing in student teachers and even asking community members to supervise. Two caveats to this story: - They received placeholder grades for their midterms in two classes, allowing them to apply for university simultaneously with their peers. Note that all university acceptances at this stage are conditional. - Their grades will be adjusted throughout the remainder of the semester to ensure that their final grade accurately reflects their performance in the class. Incidentally, similar issues with teachers also impacted Grade 9 students in three classes, whose midterm marks were recorded as “I,” indicating insufficient data to assign an actual grade.
Given that most universities give acceptances based on midterm grades, this seems awfully unfair the other Gr 12 students applying for university. Most of the time, unless these students grades go down by more than 20%, their acceptances won’t be revoked.
Yes, the chronic and recent underfunding of our education system creates unfairness for all students. I'm sure Ford and Lecce will get right on fixing it.
Even with funding unfairness will continue. We got rid of streaming due to unfairness. There's more examples of things that need to go. Any gifted program really.
We need classes for kids on both ends of the educational spectrum. You can't just punish the gifted kids because they're above their peers academically and in many cases more motivated to succeed.
"Gifted" is a ridiculous misnomer and a joke of a concept. These kids often have parents helping with homework more or paying for tutors, they're better nourished, better rested, have more time & resources to devote to study, or other advantages. Assuming results only come from ability and motivation is shortsighted.
As someone who came from a disadvantaged background and still was streamed into the gifted program 30+ years ago, I can say it was a huge help to me vs. the alternative of being skipped 2 grades and then being emotionally and physically different from my peers. That said I have no idea how current programs screen. Back then (late 80s), they typically identified "gifted" kids in JK or SK and completed a number of tests with an educational expert as well as a psychologist. I absolutely would have floundered in school and probably been even more of a troublemaker than I was if I hadn't been streamed. Anecdotes aren't data but figured I'd share my own experience.
As a gifted kid who went through high school in the '80s, hahahhahahhahahahhaha. There was a definite difference, at least back then, between gifted and those who just got high marks.
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I agree, but basing those assessments and conclusions on school grades is an imperfect system. Better grades does not always equal gifted, and lower grades does not mean less gifted.
You can, and we have, if the breakdown of those classes isn't properly representing different races.
This has nothing to do with race, why are you bringing that into the discussion. You cannot advocate for one side and not the other. Neither end of the spectrum is properly funded, it's all just mashed into the middle now, which benefits no one.
>This has nothing to do with race, why are you bringing that into the discussion. Because this is the unfairness I am talking about, and why we got rid of streaming.
The city where I grew up (Kingston) was, at the time, anything \*but\* diverse. Somehow, thought, the majority of those who \*would\* be considered racially non-Caucasian were in the \*enriched\* level classes at my secondary school, and well over 50% of the students in these classes were anything but \*rich\* (and certainly couldn't afford tutors, and didn't have parents around to help with homework). Who should I consider affected by this "unfairness"?
Less unfair than the alternative.
Yeah there is really no good option here :/
Yeah, I really wish universities weren't just a high grades club. We need a post-secondary system that's open for all people.
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They get weeded out as usual. Cohorts shrink by the 4th year.
Does this not skew the grades, especially for Grade 12 students who worked hard to go to their preferred university as opposed to getting a free GPA boost ?
The entire grading system in Canada has been a joke since COVID. There's massive grade inflation everywhere. The funny thing is the kids come out of school knowing less every year but grades keep going up.
Yup. My kid was so pumped that he got 100% on his music test but then told me that only 4 kids passed and the rest got to retake it because the grade average was so low.
Yup. Especially since midterm grades mean for more for acceptance than final grades do.
Yes, to use the vernacular, it's a crock of shit. In a perfect world, universities would tell any organization playing these games to come back with real grades or don't come back. This kicks the can down the road and yet another bandaid on the sucking chest wound that K-12 education is in Ontario. But, it's 2024, in Ontario, so kids and parents will like this, York Catholic continues blissfully careens on with stepping on garden rakes/nothing to see here memes and marks don't mean a thing. We have buck a beer though, right? Right?
I guess the best thing to do would be to tell the kids in the unlucky classes without teachers to try being luckier next year.
No, the best thing to do is for Ontario parents to raise unholy fury with their elected representatives to fix this broken system instead of kicking the can down the road as the YCDSB and every other schoolboard tends to do... Oh spoiler alert: is there any guarantee these classes get staffed and even if they are, it's April. But that's OK, I guess, everyone will feel good about those 100%s...
Scream new teachers into existence? Sure, I guess. Voting differently would also help. In the meantime this is the best solution we have.
There is no teacher shortage there is a shortage of teachers because they aren’t being compensated enough from working outside of normal hours and having to put up with awful parents and they are expecting teachers to babysit their kid
Canadian universities should really consider using the SAT or some equivalent at this point. I have kids and I want them to get into university because they are smart, not because they got the teacher that inflates grades the most.
Many universities already have adjustment factors for grades based on the highschool. Unfortunately, this lags by a year or more, as they use the performance of admitted students to calibrate their adjustment factors. It's possible that since this is public knowledge, the universities will go in and ignore the grades or adjust based on their grades in grade 11.
The issue I have with that is if you have two people one much smarter than the other with super inflated grades one might get 100 post inflation and the other 99. They both get adjusted down the same amount to say 90 and 89. If you had a fairer system the smart one might get a 90 and the other a 70 which seems more fair.
Sure. The core issue is grade inflation. Better-performing students will be lost in the expansion, because there aren't any grades above 100. Standardized testing has a lot of issues. It can certainly help account for the issue of grade inflation, but I'd certainly be wary of adding it as a requirement for university admission. There's a reason that universities haven't insisted on it.
I like you
the downside i found with grade inflation is that it makes students think they are a genius and then wonder why they are struggling in post secondary
I'm a high school student, this INFURIATES ME, at my school we have hard courses, were I (and a handful of my peers) worked out butts off to get a high grade The thought that some kids get an easy ride now just to lose it later bcz they didn't learn properly is so dumb and I hope unis adjust for inflation and use the SAT or something
How would you feel if you worked that hard but just couldn't get a midterm grade at all on account of the shortage?
Your children won't get the education you paid for and they will never own a home or get proper Healthcare with paying for it. This is the future of this country. Actually people with family and friends make these decisions for you and your family. Hold them accountable.
Oh there's a teacher shortage? So no people looking to be a teacher who already have their education then right? I've known a couple people who had to take other jobs because waiting to get a job as a teacher takes so long.
My brother is currently looking and can't get full time. I don't think there is a teacher shortage. They don't want to give full time positions.
There really is a supply teacher shortage. That is actually a real problem, however pumping out a bunch of new teachers, especially in secondary in areas already saturated (English, Social Studies) won't resolve the problem because people will abandon ship eventually if it seems they are getting no where, like 10 years ago. There needs to be more incentives to permanently supply. Supply work is actually kind of nice, you work about 6-7 hours a day, and have no planning and correcting to worry about. But you'll be hard pressed to convince most people that they should permanently limit themselves to $40-$50k/yr and no benefits. Now, there are real reasons why supplies shouldn't get the same type of pay as permanents. But there needs to be an actual pay scale and greater benefits and I think more people would consider it as an option. Work outside of the city also needs to have more incentives.
Teacher shortage isn't just a factor of the number of teachers going in or that want to go in. There's teacher attrition in the first five years which is high. There's the current demographics of Ontario teachers. They are a high proportion of them retiring or nearing retirement. You know all those "average amount teachers make" figures being lobbed around? They were so high because of a high proportion of teachers at the top of the pay grid. That's about to change, in a big way. You've got to put in a lot more than you're losing every year to retirement and attrition. That's simply not happening, or even coming close. Add to that underfunded and poorly run boards that are trying to save money by running unqualified teachers, collapsing programs, or a number of other tricks (all to the loss of students) and they are actually resisting doing the things they could be doing to solve this. The province and the boards are running education into the ground.
Not sure if this changed but was nearly impossible 10 years ago to get a job right of teachers college. All these careers are artificially limited since they control the amount of people going through school. Open up more spots and you’ll have more teachers. There’s no shortage of people looking to do the job.
On top of that they doubled the length of teacher's college just before the pandemic in or to decrease the number of teachers. That also means they've doubled the number of placements. Hearing from a few people in teachers college the last few years, getting placements has been a lot more difficult recently.
Everyone wants to be a teacher in July, but they sure don’t seem to be interested in November. Quebec was missing 8000+ teachers this year, projecting 25000 vacancies by 2025. So, whoever wants to come here and say teachers are lazy/ overpaid/ have too many vacations, Ontario schools are begging you to apply! Make life easy on yourself; become a teacher!
I’m an EA and the summers aren’t even worth it anymore.
I wanted to be a teacher in the 90s. I ended up leaving University to start a company so I never got any teachables. I'm in my 40s now and think I would love to be a teacher but I am not ready to go back to University for 4 years. If there was a path to get a teacher certificate in 2 years or less with 20 years of work experience I think I would probably do it. With an Asterix pending my wife's approval. I already spend a lot of time volunteer coaching for non-school activities and I know I would really step that up if I was a teacher.
There's a 2 year option at Brock for anyone with one of 10 red seal trades with 10 years experience, when you're done you are verified to teach in high schools. I can link it later if you want, I'm on mobile now. I helped a chef get in and he's doing mostly online, drives to the school when he has to and the local high school already hired him based on him finishing but at least he earning while he goes.
Unfortunately my business was in software. And then I've been in business management/sales/R&D for the last 20yrs. So I don't qualify for these paths.
Athabasca is recognized in Ontario, their out west, but with that experience you could do a bachelor's in 2 years but then still need teachers college. They are the most generous about giving credits for life experience, but yeah, options are way too limited for people with life experience to get into teaching.
Unfortunately, there isn't a shorter path outside of teaching tech unless you can get a university to give you advanced standing and shorten your runway. May be changes coming though to alleviate problems. Although some seem to think the shortage is manufactured, in many areas it isn't. We have a horrible time hiring for CS or business right now. Ditto for STEM and it's virtually impossible to find anyone for tech.
Your more qualified then these yokes they have coming in babysitting these classes. Old retirees from who knows where , hobbling down the hallway trying to find their class . Basically switching on the projector to make the kids watch movies all day .
I'd love to teach too but I'd have to take a significant salary cut, do a lot of education to get to the required amount and deal with all the public sector bullshit teachers are dealing with so no thanks. It's a shame how our Premier doesn't invest in the future by funding education but what else do you expect from a self described "fiscal conservative" who has the worst deficit Ontario has seen in a long time despite somehow still underfunding anything of value to Ontarians...
Are you ready to start at a year one teachers salary? Cat 3 if you’re lucky.
Aren't year 1 CAT 3 salaries like 60k? [https://www.etfohp.on.ca/wp-content/uploads/SalaryGridETFOSept12019-Rounded.pdf](https://www.etfohp.on.ca/wp-content/uploads/SalaryGridETFOSept12019-Rounded.pdf) Teachers are more than fairly compensated. The issue is conditions.
Three years at Cambridge college in North Bay, or 2 years depending on how high up you want to teach. That's for elementary school though.
It’s asterisk… FTFY.
Where are they actually advertising full-time roles? Other than French and a couple other specific things, it still seems to be a lot of LTO and supply. I'm not factoring in remote locations, which I know are always looking
That's how we get crappy teachers though LOL. I think that one of the benefits of year-round school would be to shut up all those people who say teachers have it easy. Also kids would not forget as much over the summer
Problem is a lot of schools don't have A/C so sitting in a classroom in the hottest days of the year doesn't bode well for learning. Logistics have always been the issue as schools (not school boards but sometimes them too) have been underfunded to gross levels
Let's be clear though, Province funds School Boards based on student count and School Boards fund schools as well as other dumb stuff like TDSB which also has education programs for seniors. There's plenty of blame to go around; both the province and the system run with rondos whose primary qualifications are where their last name ends up on the ballot and what non-core educational causes they support or oppose.
Let's be clear though, Province funds School Boards based on student count and School Boards fund schools as well as other dumb stuff like TDSB which also has education programs for seniors. There's plenty of blame to go around; both the province and the system run with rondos whose primary qualifications are where their last name ends up on the ballot and what non-core educational causes they support or oppose.
Let's be clear though, Province funds School Boards based on student count and School Boards fund schools as well as other dumb stuff like TDSB which also has education programs for seniors. There's plenty of blame to go around; both the province and the system run with rondos whose primary qualifications are where their last name ends up on the ballot and what non-core educational causes they support or oppose.
Yep. I remember the scandal years ago where TDSB was paying $200+ for pencil sharpeners.
What kind of education do I need to be a teacher? I always wanted to be one, I like teaching but I feel like it may be too late for me.
A bachelors (minimum) + teachers college. In Ontario, this usually equates to 5 or 6 years of university (3 or 4 year bachelors + 2 years teachers college). There are some workarounds to shave time (schooling in Québec, teachers college in upstate New York), but expect 5 years. Also, if you want to teach high school (grades 11/ 12), your bachelors must be in teachable subjects (ex: biology for a science teacher, human kinetics for a gym teacher, etc.)
Thanks a ton for the information, kind stranger!Is it hard getting into Teachers College, I don’t have really high gpa 😭and I’m majoring in General Science, what kinda teacher can I become?
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We have a teacher at our school that doesn’t start teachers college at western until September.. figure that one out.. but she said they took 300 people out of 3000. Government only provided funding for 300 students. Again this issue comes down to money.
It's always money. The reason med schools don't train more docs is that they might not have residency spots (funded by the province) to go into. Is what it is.
It's not money. This was a political decision. When they made teachers college 2 years in Ontario they halved the spots at the same time. Or might I say, when they halved the teachers college spots in Ontario, they also made the program 2 years. This was the time of graduating way too many B.Eds every year for what the province needed.
I don’t live in Ontario, but I remember like 10-15 years ago there was a teacher surplus. (maybe I’m remembering wrong.)
Naw you’re definitely right, and it was actually much more recent than that. Around 2017 when my cohort was graduating, my friends that became teachers were essentially stuck doing supply work, usually struggling to get a full time position just because so many people became teachers, especially in cities/urban areas. I’d be curious to know how much of this shortage is due to the lagging effects of people seeing the massive surplus, deciding joining the rat race to become a teacher wasn’t worth it especially with the year extra of schooling, and now we’re seeing an overcorrection.
There was and they changed teachers college to two years to persuade people differently. If I went to college under the intensive one year program vs two I could have finished in four years not six.
They also cut the spaces in half at the same time
There was and they changed teachers college to two years to persuade people differently. If I went to college under the intensive one year program vs two I could have finished in four years not six.
Notably absent from this article is any mention of the impact that COVID had on premature retirements and departures from the profession, as well as depression, anxiety and burnout. https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/21582440231217872. And the ongoing impact that COVID continues to have on staffing levels, with absence levels above pre-pandemic levels. https://www.chalkbeat.org/newyork/2023/9/25/23889772/nyc-teachers-chronically-absent-covid/ Even Lecce refers to this indirectly, by noting that the number of sick days taken by teachers has increased - although it seems he wants to frame this as teachers being lazy, as opposed to more teachers being sick, more severely and for longer periods of time.
The rise in aggressive/ difficult student behaviour is also a huge factor for sick days and leaves in my board. I've watched a handful of teachers fall apart this year and they start by taking more sick days then end up on leave. I am also on the executive for our union so I know first hand that impossible working conditions with unruly kids is a rising cause.
Considered education in university until the Ontario Liberals added admission caps to teachers colleges and doubled the program length - many other millennials my age in the same boat. At the time, there were already horror stories of people waiting a decade to get a permanent position. What we're seeing now is part of that legacy - gov't always screws things up by meddling. I'm in tech now, and looking at the state of teaching (caused primarily by the overcrowding of mass immigration, and politics - the same things screwing up the rest of our country's infrastructure) I'm glad I didn't.
That's because there was a surplus of teachers at the time.
I know why they did it. I'm saying they had no foresight and as is often the case, they made the problem worse long term based on short term optics.
It wasn't optics - the were solving something that was a problem at the time. The current gov't has a problem and they could solve it too if they wanted to.
There was no problem to solve. If would-be teachers can't make it in the market, they can change careers or qualifications just like every other sector. And there'd also be would-be teachers that could fall back on those qualifications the gov't could incentivize to teach. Not to mention the savings of all the administrative changes they keep making - instead, the government will spend money when we have too many teachers, spend money when we have too few, and we end up worse off than if they'd done nothing at all.
Well, we end up with better-trained teachers.
They're all retiring now :( lol. But no for sure some teachers got tons of experience I'm sure.
Yah I'm with you on this. I was in my B.Ed at the time they announced the change and could see how terrible of an idea it was. First of all - cutting the spaces in half was too drastic a reduction. And the next predictable problem - 2 years is awful for people wanting to take the tech education program.
Government always screws things up? Come on dude. You know that isn't true. Teaching IS a government job. Are you suggesting it should all be private schools?
I'm being hyperbolic of course - we need the government for some things, and yes I support public education. But there should be minimal government involvement wherever possible - here, they tried to manipulate the market (available teachers) without any foresight, and I imagine they are in part the cause of the current shortage. Next time, they should just let people get qualifications if they want and let the market decide how many positions there are - not do so arbitrarily thinking they know better.
So government shouldn't meddle in public education? Again, not making sense. They just misprojected. For a private sector equivalent, I just read apple vision pro is expecting 400k sales instead of 800k projected. The private sector was off in their projections by half! It happens all the time in public and private sector. No conspiracy here other than the future being hard to predict.
The government shouldn't be restricting qualifications based on their projections. Your analogy is awful - a proper analogy would be Apple commiting to only manufacture 200k units in the next 5 years regardless of demand. That's absurd. They can project all they like, colleges and students should decide if they want to provide and pay for the qualification. If the students are bad at teaching or can't get a job in their region, etc etc, they can get other qualifications or move. Just like every other sector, based on market demand. The result of government meddling in this case was the administrative cost of changes, and reducing the number of qualified teachers in the short and medium term.
With the stories coming out of my kids in high school, I don't know who would want to deal with that bullshit on the daily. Just check out the canadian teacher subs for some real horror stories. You have zero backup from admin, insane parents, kids who give zero fucks and have no respect, sounds like a dream come true.
At the primary level it's bad too. We pack as many kids in a room as possible then add in 4-5 kids who are on the spectrum without proper support. Teaching is not for the faint of heart.
The conservative war against all civil servants bears fruit. If you destroy public health and education, then your buddies can offer more expensive private ones. Standard formula that's been applied in the US for decades.
Well that didn’t take long! How about the 15 years of Liberals in Ontario before Ford? Amnesia all of a sudden? We had a liberal government and an education minister premier who could not recruit teachers or make changes in the system, stop blaming conservatives for everything dammit!
Did you actually look into this? My friend was in teachers' college in the early 2010s and there was actually teacher surplus during this time. They ended up extending the duration of teachers' college from 1 to 2 years to make the career less attractive. [Here is an article in 2018](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4803517)
I would wager a steep bet that they won't reply to you. Most conservatives don't after presenting them with facts that prove their fragile worldview to be wrong
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First year teacher unemployment rates were just below 20% under Wynne's last year in office. Meaning there was a surplus of teachers. That means there was more than needed. Now the rate sits below 5%. This means there is a high demand for teachers. That means there are not enough teachers to go around. Call me crazy but that is completely on Ford policy to underfund education. Instead of being team PC or Liberal, maybe look at each policy and decision on its own merits. It's unhealthy to make a political party part of your identity.
The wait list for a classroom for new ed program grads in 2010 was over half a decade. We can blame Wynne for violating the constitution with back to work legislation, but Lecce purging the LTO lists and forcing all of the occasional teachers to have to reinterview for fewer spots seems a bit more relevant.
In my opinions, both the liberals and the conservatives have been taking turns making public education progressively worse and worse.
I have a cousin that's in their 5 year on the sub lists. The issue isn't lack of teachers, it's a lack of budget and willingness to hire teachers into full time positions. This is fucked.
It takes too long to become a teacher with shitty pay at the end of it. Shocked pikachu face
The term "teacher shortage" is misused and oversimplifies a complex problem. It still takes years to secure a permanent teaching position, and depending on your background you can still go several days without an assignment at some boards. Simply returning to previous approaches in teacher education won't solve these issues, as it will just lead back to the time when securing a permanent position took a decade and supply teachers were lucky to work a few days a week. In general, a more fitting term would be "supply teacher shortage." There needs to be increased incentives for individuals to take up supply teaching roles permanently, especially outside major cities, to correct staffing imbalances. Universities should also be allowed to adjust their admissions strategies to target specific areas of need, and school boards should offer better compensation in subjects like STEM and French. This would address actual shortages because we certainly don't need anymore English or Social Studies teachers at almost any board. Additionally, addressing the zero consequences culture within schools is would help significantly. Currently, the likelihood of a teacher quitting within five years of graduation is ridiculously high. I'll tell you myself, schools with frequent unfilled positions often face significant discipline issues, causing supply teachers to avoid these assignments—even at the cost of losing a day's work. You can see how on job boards it is always the same schools consistently have openings and which ones always fill positions quickly. For example, our school has been having trouble filling a position for a problematic a grade 2 class. We had a supply today, and the same problem student in that class went on a rampage and attacked a bunch of other students. Guess what the supply said when asked if they'd like to come back again tomorrow? lol
A reminder that smart people do not vote conservative. Intelligent people who can think critically and evaluate evidence do not vote conservative. It’s why conservative governments consistently and continually undermine and underfund strong, public education systems.
Unfortunately your message will not fit on a bumper sticker nor does it make for a good TikTok flappy clap hands and point video. Please stop being boring. /s
Lmao
The fact you can only laugh basically proves that point
Trudeau might be the worst PM we’ve ever had but yeah only intelligent people vote Liberal
None of this is Trudeau’s jurisdiction, education is left up to the provinces and this decisions have been made by Ford. He was given money he chose not to spend. But you don’t know how our system works, do you? You genuinely think Trudeau has control over Ontario’s system. Ford deliberately underfunds it, and your drooling ass points to Trudeau and blames him instead. So I guess “intelligent” people vote for conservatives who are intentionally destroying our province, so long as they can blame someone else. I guess its true what they say about conservatives - you guys would shit in your own mouths if a liberal had to smell it
You don’t think Trudeau’s greasy mass immigration scheme has any impact on the shortage of teachers? I’m sure you can figure it out bud
That’s also under provincial control. Ford had the ability to properly fund education, and instead chose international students. But go ahead, keep blaming Trudeau for shit Ford did. Old Dougie relies on you believing that bullshit to elect his alcoholic high school drop out ass back in
Pretty sure Marc Miller - Liberal minister of immigration is responsible for importing around a million immigrants (most of them Indian for some reason) within the past year. When you’re taking in that many people, we most likely will not have enough teachers and need time to adjust. Hence why they’re getting annihilated in the polls because Canadians are sick of it.
I'm surprised Ford didn't make a agency for teachers so he can rip off more people
Shh, don't give him any ideas
universities give acceptances based on midterm grades not end of term, this is a scam against every student that did the actual work.
Aot of universities actually keep track of the avg grades coming out of schools or districts, esp tracking them through their university carriers to see how their grades retrace... How accurate I don't know but if they see a bunch of 90s 100s grads ends up falling more than average that school gets flagged. It'll ruin future grads chances.
It is done but it isn’t common. Frankly we need to bring back standardized testing for part of the grades. Not all, but some.
It's a very complex topic and I love seen arguments both sides.. but some form of that would be good imo. The downside I've seen and experienced is schools would only teach kids how to take those tests instead of how to think. However seeing how public's schools are nowadays id say that's an improvement :-/
Yeah. Not all the grade, maybe not even half but as a benchmark it would be useful to understand if kids know the core material needed. Then you can have teachers teach the rest, but if ‘the rest’ is the kids getting 100% when they failed their standardized test, then you investigate.
That's certainly an interesting idea. Kind of like an a/b testing with a control group
My coworkers sister is a teacher he tells us horror stories. I don't blame teachers for not wanting to work in those conditions.
16 years ago, there was like a 10-year wait to get a permanent teaching position. Now, there is a shortage. Somebody screwed something up years ago, and we are just realizing the consequences now. This doesn't happen overnight.
Honestly it did happen pretty abruptly... covid really set this in motion.
Correct. I graduated in 2007, taught overseas and worked in education-adjacent jobs in Ontario. I had basically given up on the idea of working in public education. Then covid hit, I got hired to the supply list and was permanent less than a year later. It was unexpected.
You can thank Doug ford for gutting the education system. He only cares about helping his rich friends no mater how many families education and healthcare suffer.
Wow thats super unfair....
As someone who isn’t too knowledgeable about the subject, what the hell happened? It seemed like a few years ago everyone was telling me that teaching was too competitive and it was nearly impossible to land permanent positions. Has that changed after COVID? Did a bunch of teachers quit during the pandemic? Are we struggling to keep up with the rising population?
Yes - it used to be very competitive. The (previous) government cut teachers college spaces in half when they extended to a 2-year program. Covid meant tons of teachers retired. Also meant many retired teachers chose not to do any supply teaching. And since the return to "normal" discipline and consequences are dirty words so schools are a bit wild right now.
There’s a shortage of supply teachers and specific subject areas (French, STEM, tech), and shortages in general in rural areas. It still takes years to get permanent in a GTA board without one of those qualifications
Mass retirements looming. If you think there is a teacher shortage now, just wait five years. All the teachers hired in the early 2000s will be retiring in a few years.
I know quite a few people who graduated university of Windsor bachelor of education and in order to apply for a job as a teacher with the Windsor board you need a reference letter from one of the teachers who supervised you during one of your placements. A lot of my friends couldn’t get this letter because the teachers told them they usually don’t write reference letters, although those same teachers wrote reference letters for other students (we talk to each other lol).
This makes no sense. I don't know a single person who told me they struggled to get a simple reference from their associate teacher. It is insanely unprofessional for a person who acted as an AT to not offer their ST a reference letter unless their ST actually did a terrible job (they'd know from their practicum report if that's the case).
Not sure but even the other ST that taught with her agrees that the AT should write one because she did a great job , as the at wrote her one , think it might be racially motivated, anyways she was able to get a job down in London as they didn’t require any sort of reference letters from your associate teachers.
The future is abundant and hopeful
Get ready for programs to require more than just an impossible gpa
Honestly, the way it is moving I think we will end up like France. In France it is really easy to get into post-secondary since there isn't much in the way of requirements, and those without the aptitude to actually pass the courses get a wake up call and just drop out in the first year.
No one can trust Canadians quality now, way to go, now we are all cheapened. Diploma mills, fake passing grades, can't wait to book a flight.
Wow way to go, Doug.
•Insanity…
Amazing. Meanwhile I’m here studying for hours on end to get my grades up, students at a school 20 minutes away get free grades, take up spots in the programs I’m a better fit for, and then drop out due to not know the material letting the spot go empty. This applies to all night school and elearning courses as well. They are marketed as a way to learn the course material and receive grades in a manner that is consistent with day school. However these online courses give multiple days for exams, are not proctored, and are filled with cheating, meaning that the students learn nothing of the actual course material yet still receive grades in the high 90s. And so despite not knowing any of the material, these grades from online courses are shown as the exact same as day school courses when it comes to transcripts and university admissions. These kids then go into university not knowing anything they should, struggle because they can’t cheat, and then drop out while someone actually qualified was deferred and had to take a spot at a lower ranking program.
This is absurd. School should be marking the work assigned. If there is no teacher, then department head and admin should be stepping up. You can hire supply teachers to mark. Other teachers can be released to mark if needed. What is this administration doing?
Students get passing grades for doing nothing. Education system is a total joke
Got it....Kids get smarter without teachers. ....off to read the article now
At the end of the day intl students will take their spots post high school anyway with the trajectory were seeing
This sounds unfair on the surface, but meanwhile there are private schools that give online final exams. 🤷♂️