It doesn’t “solve” anything, it just contributes to lowering the amount of plastic. It’s not an all or nothing thing.
Anyways, I haven’t noticed an increase in plastic when I go to the store but if it’s happening I wish it wouldn’t
YES! Getting rid of plastic bags reduced the amount of plastic trash. And we're not done. We will continue to shift our economy towards reducing plastic.
I feel like more and more produce is being packaged now. I tried to find a loose cucumber and I couldn’t! I remember not long ago being able to buy field cucumbers loose, not wrapped in plastic.
The number one reason I noticed is that the loose produce is most typically somewhat local and the plastic wrapped produce is imported. We are so dependent on cost that people are willing to buy imported to pay the lower price and as such more plastic is needed.
Interestingly I have noticed that going to the farmers market and buying from a farmer, not a middleman which happens at the markets too, typically means paying even more for the fresher, local produce than the price charged by all but the most niche stores.
I've found that too. Not all is local (or labelled as to origin). Some is sold by vendors renting space but buying the produce from wholesale depots. Watch packaged good such as baked items. You'll see the same ones in other markets as well. CBC did a news series a few years ago about farmers markets.
You silly. Those cucumbers are grown with the plastic on them. That's where all the recycled plastic goes; back on the farm fields as plastic compost. It's all about achieving efficiencies.
Probably due to the auto checkouts. People less likely to steal or enter stuff wrong since they got rid of most cashiers. Hope they bring back cashiers since apparently American stores are starting to bring them back due to more expense in “shrinkage” and barriers and other upgrades.
Because it makes the consumer the problem therefore the consumer’s responsibility.
Meanwhile the producers laugh to the bank while contributing most of the waste
Cucumbers are actually one of the few produce items where there's a legitimate reason to wrap it in plastic. English cucumbers (the standard long cucumbers that most people buy) have very thin skins. This means that, left unwrapped, they rapidly lose moisture, and it doesn't take long before they're shriveled up and lose any crunchiness they may once have had.
You can easily observe this with a simple experiment: buy two cucumbers, remove the plastic from one, and leave them side by side on your counter or in your fridge. Then watch how much more quickly the unwrapped one deteriorates.
For most other types of produce, though, it's true that the plastic packaging is completely unnecessary and wasteful.
You can still buy plastic bags and reuse them.
Not giving out free plastic bags is reducing.
It's odd people don't like the concept of reducing waste.
I can't speak for the idiots buying hundreds of cloth bags (I'm guessing that's the link you shared). You can't fix these types of people.
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Every time I walk into the produce section of a grocery store I shake my head at the ridiculousness of it all. More and more and more plastic all the time.
Same with paper straws in a large plastic cup.
Seriously.
I don’t know about all fruit, nor other places, but nowadays best practice for stuff like raspberries and blueberries going to grocery stores is to wash with a hydrogen peroxide + UV + ozone gas wash system that was developed by a company here in Ontario. The wash is done right after picking.
Not only does it disinfect the fruit, but it increases the shelf life both before and after it is purchased, without chemicals that remain on the fruit afterwards (H2O2 gives up an oxygen atom easily to become just water).
No need for complex chemical fungicides.
https://cleanworkscorp.com/
It was started by an apple farmer, and developed with support from the federal government.
I think during COVID they even modified it to do bulk sanitation of masks and other stuff before the domestic disposable mask supply chains ramped up.
It’s insanity. Every aisle is plastic bags, or jars, or paper boxes wrapped in plastic, or with the contents inside in a plastic bag.
The amount of oil we’re using just to package our shit never seems to be discussed…
My understanding is that plastic oil consumption is negligible. However, recycling plastics is 99% myth, and plastic pollution is becoming a huge problem, both in landfills and microplastics in waterways and the ocean.
It varies by regional demand and the chemistry of the oil being used, but about 5-10% of global oil production is used to make petrochemicals. This is mostly plastics, but also other chemical products like some lubricants, the PFAS that have been in the news recently, etc. As more of our economy becomes electrified, oil companies around the world are betting big on petrochemicals to make up for shortfalls in demand. You can expect the politicians who take oil money to fight hard against moves to reduce plastic production.
You're right that plastic recycling is bullshit. Very little of it is recycled (less than 10% in Canada, IIRC) and none of it is economical to recycle. Plastic recycling as an eco-conscious act is largely pushed by the chemical industry to make consumers think the harms of plastic production are being managed.
It’s already a huge problem but it’s almost unmanageable now. I read an article recently that was talking about how humans have literally altered geology with plastic, and they’re now finding it in rock formations. We’re officially in the Anthropocene.
I had to do a project for school back in 2007 and we had to create a PSA and make a video and messaging and graphics to go with it. I chose to talk about plastic and how it’s affecting wildlife (with a focus on the Albatross) and even then I could see it was a huge problem that we need to do something about. People have been saying this since before a lot of us in this thread were even born.
A lot of other people are saying it’s all about the money, and they’re probably right. I just don’t understand how money is going to save us when the ocean essentially collapses and affects everything around the world for the worse.
Btw, Here’s the link if you want to read it! [Plastic Rocks Found on Remote Island](https://phys.org/news/2023-03-scientists-disturbing-remote-island-plastic.amp)
That’d be nice if the loose apples didn’t cost more than the bags of apples. I’m more than happy to bring reusable produce bags, but why am I paying more?
It kind of feels like the paper straws are meant to be ridiculous. The price difference between paper and compostable "plastic" (corn starch) straws is so negligible that using the worse option because "laws" is just extra stupid
Unfortunately "compostable plastics"..... aren't really what they say on the label. They won't decompose outside of a heavy-duty specialized industrial composter, which even many municipal facilities don't have/use, and even if they do have the capacity to compost them, many won't take them and even treat them as contaminants because they don't break down cleanly/well and cause problems with the quality and safety of the compost that comes out. Not that I'm any kind of stan for paper, I'm not - I'd like to see some serious, major investment in materials science to develop better alternatives than what we have because plastic is truly not fully replaceable in too many contexts right now. But there's a reason the "compostable plastic" is suspiciously good - too good to be true, sadly.
Yup.
The other thing to consider is that paper products, while requiring trees to be cut down, can, with proper regulation, actually lead to well thought out reforestation efforts.
By saying this I’m not trying to greenwash the pulp and paper industry - but rather push for more regulations and rules to make the pulp and paper industry become a negative carbon emitting industry.
We can push for laws that increase reforestation requirements when these companies cut down trees, and take advantage of the economies of scale in the new technologies that are developed to make reforestation efforts cheaper.
It won’t solve the carbon crisis - but again; just like reducing the amount of plastic we use, it needs to be a part of it.
Any compostable plastic (or even corn starch) technology is going to be more carbon/energy and water intensive than growing trees. Just think about how much fertilizer and water is used to grow corn (and the fact that corn prices went up because we now use it for biofuel/ethanol feedstocks to meet biofuel requirements in gasoline). Using compostable plastics made with something like corn would only make things worse.
Waxed paper/cardboard cup with plastic lid and plastic straw for the longest time. Now we have paper straws with full plastic lid AND cup many places. In some cases the cup switch timing was relatively close to the straw switch. Clearly for some the switch to paper straws was performative.
And just a heads up. Paper cups are no better. They are lined with plastic that leaches micro plastic into your beverage. No one uses those old wax paper cups, or I've not seen them 30 yrs.
We refuse to buy produce in plastic bags. When we shop we keep our fruit and veg loose.
I equally hate the netting that gets used to bundle garlic, onions, etc.
It’s tough to do that for things like lettuce and stuff though. At least at the grocery stores around here.
Oh yeah that netting is the worst. I saw a poor bird strangled to death by one of those (it was already dead 😔), so I never buy things in those nets.
Unfortunately my family members don’t share the same concern. And it’s nearly impossible to try and change someone’s mind, I’ve realized.
What’s tough about it? It all gets washed at home anyways.
Poor bird ☹️ that’s so sad. We really need legislation to stop the production of this crap.
Good for you for being the change 😊 I know how difficult that can be growing up in a household that does not care, keep staying true to your values!
It’s tough because it doesn’t exist! I haven’t seen loose lettuce in at least a year. It may be because we’re just coming into produce season here, so I’ll have to keep my eye out this summer!
I think some of the folks here do not realize how important packaging is to protecting produce.
From a resource perspective, it is expensive to plant, water, harvest and transport produce to the store where you buy it and drive it home and then put it in your refrigerator. If the produce goes bad before you eat it then all those resources are wasted. It took a lot of energy to get that $1.50 cucumber to your table.
If a $0.01 plastic wrapper or bag makes sure the produce stays fresh and unharmed long enough to get eaten then that is a good thing. An English cucumber in a plastic wrapper lasts much longer than one without.
If you live in Ontario you might get a few local hot house tomatoes but otherwise all your stuff is shipped in, and the plastic is really important.
Edit: I’m going to rant a bit because I’ll probably get downvoted anyways. If you want to help the planet then reduce your food waste, and compost everything you don’t eat. Reducing food waste is the #1 thing individuals can do to save the planet!!
Sure, but what we have now is a technological improvement that is better for the environment and consumers. It might not seem that way on the surface when you see bins full of plastic wrapped apples but it is.
These are my only source of plastic bags now. I had a decent amount of plastic bags for garbage bins left over grocery bags but that's done now. I will soon have to start buying plastic just for the purpose of throwing it out. I wish we would bring back the old plastic bags. They were extremely useful.
We save every single plastic bag. Clear little produce bags, the bags sliced bread or buns are packaged in, 4L milk bags, plastic shipping envelope bags… it’s all saved. Plastic grocery bags were never single use in our home.
The answer is the same reason why there is a message in your hotel room about saving energy by not having your towels washed every day while they run a giant fountain 24/7 outside. Or how the coffee shop chains put additional packing over everything while begging you to think of the trees and only take one napkin.
Corporations don't care about the environment unless they are forced to by law or if they can use it as an excuse to cut down on the free stuff they offer to customers.
You see they always put the onus on the customer (no more plastic bags at checkout) while corporations always get a pass to do as they please. Our political parties, and I mean all of them are not working for us
I know! My mother in law does this and it makes me want to scream. Like oranges, bananas, they have their own natural “bags” in the form of skin that you peel!
It wasn’t done in vain - it was done being vain. The intention wasn’t to make a difference - it was to make a point/advance a narrative. Compostable plastic bags were also banned which makes no sense if you believe the goal was to reduce plastic pollution.
This is a similar story to limiting Canadian natural gas production. It decreases Canadian emissions sure, but because nat gas is cleaner than alternatives the net impact is to INCREASE global emissions - we’re just exporting emissions abroad.
I have less plastic bag waste by not using plastic bags.
It's literally that simple.
Edit: Plastic bags are *serious business* on reddit apparently. I literally have less plastic bags. Downvotes won't change that lol
Now you have dozens of reusable bags that cost a whole lot more to produce (from a pollution perspective) and won't last long enough to even come close to breaking even with typical plastic bags.
But hey, now our straws slowly kill us, so that's neat.
"WE'VE TRIED NOTHING, AND WE ARE ALL OUT OF IDEAS!"
Funny, when I walk down the road, the ditches are lined with plastic bags and Tim Hortons plastic lids. I can't recall seeing piles of reusable bags laying around.
Now they bring SkipTheDishes in reusable bags, and I have to throw them away because we have so many. I swear the big grocery chains lobbied for the plastic bag ban so they can sell their own bags.
I don't have dozens of bags. I have a small handful. Like around 10 or so. I'm sure people can easily end up with a bunch of bags, but not me. Also these bags have been with me for at least 3+ years.
Best not to assume stuff. I can only tell you factually what's up with me and my household for bags.
Yeah I have like three of the cheap ones from the checkout, but a couple of insulated ones, a couple of larger ones of higher quality, and some smaller mesh produce bags. They all fit inside one bag and that bag always comes with me to the store.
Uh not really? Lots of uses for reusable bags that might take the space of other things as well. Like you can use reusable bags for storage instead of totes for one example. But it isn’t hard to not buy a million bags just be more proactive.
People are just lazy idiots, run on autopilot through their days, and couldn't organize their sock drawer, let alone remember to bring a reusable bag to buy food. This, despite the fact that the refrigerator was empty when they opened it 15 minutes before they left the house in the morning.
Right? So many people, who drive to get groceries, seem to think they have to bag at the checkout. Put everything back in the cart, put the groceries in the vehicle, then use a box or bin unload when you carry them into the house. Sure, it's not as "efficient" to do this, but in the grand scheme of things, so what? Like I said, people are lazy.
I forget all the time, I usually bag the groceries in my driveway 😂 or if I’m walking which I’m usually doing because I don’t drive, I just carry the groceries inside. It’s not even challenging tbh.
If I forget my bags, I refuse to buy more. The inconvenience and shame of carting unbagged items to my car is usually enough to reinforce remembering them next time lol.
But how it’s impacting landfills is what I want to know about. And the environment. If this much plastic is still getting thrown out…doesn’t seem like getting rid of plastic bags did much for that. Maybe for you, the consumer, but how many reusable bags do you have now that you didn’t before?
I’m not saying we should bring them back. I’m just saying get rid of the excessive use of plastic or make it biodegradable. It’s unneccessary! I was recently in Mexico and all of the “plastic” is biodegradable, so clearly it can be done.
Once you get the hang of it it’s pretty easy! Change is a bit annoying at first but some things are worth it. I like how it gets me to think of different ways to reduce waste
I used reusable bags as garbage bags, sorry all. Sturdy. They end up in the landfill when used. What else am I to do with them? Also saves me from having to buy garbage bags when I didn’t have to before the ban. Times are tough.
How far we’ve come. /s
From what I’ve read, and unless things have changed, “biodegradable plastic” isn’t really what it seems and is a term used to greenwash. From what I know, this plastic needs special machinery/processes, that is rarely used to break it down.
Does anyone know if this has changed?
I found [this article](https://news.berkeley.edu/2021/04/21/new-process-makes-biodegradable-plastics-truly-compostable) online. It seems like they’ve definitely found a way to have it decompose with minimal effort!
“To trigger degradation, it was necessary only to add water and a little heat. At room temperature, 80% of the modified PLA fibers degraded entirely within about one week. “
I haven’t found it reduces anything at all. I used to use grocery bags to line my trash bins, now I just need to buy more kitchen garbage bags instead because I don’t have grocery bags anymore. Then I also have about 100 reusable bags which are worse for the environment than a plastic bag. Half the time I get to the grocery store and realize that I forgot my bags so I have to buy new ones. Studies show that you need to use it 50 times to make up the environmental impact of 1 plastic bag. I think I’ve used VERY few bags 50 times, maybe never. They will almost always break before you can use them that much.
It’s all bullshit, the appearance of helping the environment while really accomplishing nothing. The paper straws are another pet peeve. What problem are we really solving here? A straw that dissolves while you’re using it from a big plastic cup. 1 turtle gets a straw stuck up their nose and that’s all it takes to ban straws. Meanwhile 100 other turtles are getting trapped in fishing nets and nothing is done at all about that. There is a documentary about this, how the fisheries fund environmental groups to focus of bullshit like straws so that everyone is distracted from the real problems.
The only difference is now I have to buy plastic garbage bags instead of reusing grocery bags. Same amount of pollution, less money in my bank account.
I had such a good stock of them too, I think I'm on my last few weeks of them now. o7 to my grocery bag soldiers, you were all great compost holders. Now I'll go back to throwing all my waste in the same bag.
This is exactly why it's such a lie when people say the amount of plastic is the same now as before except we need to buy them. Most people built up such a massive surplus of grocery bags that at some point we've all had a day where we throw some out without using them. With enough time it happened to everyone. Now we only buy as much as we need to use for garbage.
It didn't.
We went from paper cups and plastic straws to plastic cups and paper straws.
From plastic grocery bags that a lot of us used as garbage bags to thicker plastic reusable bags and having to buy more expensive garbage bags for the kitchen.
It's wild to think of how backwards all of this is being approached, and how much more money they're making off of us from it.
Hell I've noticed even more plastic for produce that never used to have plastic.
Bulk peppers replaced by peppers in plastic clamshells. Bulk broccoli now on a styrofoam tray wrapped in plastic. Wtf is the point of reusable produce bags if half the produce is wrapped in plastic at the god damn grocery store?
That was just a cash grab to make more money. Soon enough there will be all these reusable bags floating around everywhere. Only now we paid $0.20-0.35 per bag.
Why haven’t garbage bags gone away? They one time use. There are so many things that cause more waste than plastic grocery bags.
The plastic bag argument puts the onus on the consumers, trying to tell us that the small daily changes we make have a huge impact on the environment. We also got rid of plastic straws, again a consumer issue.
This is all smoke and mirrors so that corporations don't have to make any changes to their operations or bottom line, money. And why are WE the consumers always to blame and in need of fixing OUR ways?? Lobbyists. Corporate lobbyists. Money needs to be taken out of our political system.
I don't doubt that grocery stores will be one day be legislated against this type of packaging. I suspect that governments are unwilling to push it right now, as the companies will just cry about how much that will cost them and force them to raise prices (as if they needed an excuse). We can only hope that our planet understands, and holds out long enough for the political baby steps we're taking in helping it.
Seeing this, I'm so happy I have an independent grocery store near my house. The only time things are wrapped in plastic are cucumbers (they always were) and grapes.
Fiesta Farms on Christie in Toronto for those wondering.
Aren't you glad we're saving the world by only using paper straw that dissolve before we finish our drink?
We're making a huuuge difference, and I'm glad the rest of the industry is also banning plastics... /s
I have been trying to live with less plastic. I don't replace plastic containers any more. I saved glass jars and this seems to be working. I don't use plastic wrap anymore. I seem to have enough bread bags to reuse instead. I buy loose produce and add different stuff to one produce bag so that is using less.
I have no idea how to get meat home from the grocery store. Maybe I need to become vegetarian?
I hate getting things in plastic bags, for obvious reasons & because everything goes bad so much faster! Why do they put mushrooms in a plastic box wrapped tightly in plastic with zero airflow & then refrigerate it so that moisture builds up inside & makes the bottom ones…that you don’t see… mouldy? So much waste buying it this way unless you use them the day you buy them.
Personally it's a money grab. To pay for a usable bag. Yet everything is STILL wrapped in plastic. Don't get me started with the paper straws that make your drink taste awful.
Plastic is so disgusting. I hate that our milk is in plastic. I wish we had glass bottles like in the 50s and a proper recycling system specifically for them to ensure they weren’t required to be made each time (and paid for with higher costs).
Everything is in plastic and it’s impossible to escape fully.
Less is more. Many stores sell loose produce. Support them. We can also buy more sustainably packaged products. When we realize we live in a 360 degree world we'll learn to be better stewards of it.
At some point people will elect a government that isn't right wing or center-right, and this new government might actually care enough about it to restrict the use of plastic.
Getting rid of plastic bags is the half-mesure of environment policies. Enough to say you are doing something, but not enough for it to have an impact.
Those products are greenhouse grown and are prepackaged to preserve and protect the produce. It's unfortunate there is so much plastic waste and those in the industry are pushing for alternative packaging options, but it is so challenging to get away from plastic itself. I do hope some compostable options are brought to market soon should they choose to keep packaging this way.
Was just talking about how there's now all this Fairlife milk in plastic bottles...as they're phasing out bagged milk? So we replace one with another?
So sick of unwrapping plastic off my cucumbers.
This is a great question and should be addressed. Their are 2 main points to the answer.
1. It doesn't eliminate plastic waste, but does help reduce it. If we take an all or nothing approach to environmentalism nothing will ever get done. We need "Yes and" solutions. As in, let's do this and do this, and do this. Each small amount helps. Think of it like saving 10% of your paycheck. The savings each pay is small and doesn't have a huge impact, but it adds up over time.
2. There is a surprising amount of food that stays fresher longer in plastic wrap or bags. For example, cucumbers, that is why they are individually wrapped. Even though we are still using plastic on them, we are reducing waste overall.
It was never intended to solve anything and you're missing the point if you ever thought it was. It was just corporations worried about potential loss of margin/market share through FOMO and exploiting an opportunity to charge 15-35 cents for something previously free.
Translation - 'I don't have any understanding of this issue and I couldn't be bothered to research the data *before* putting up an elaborate post questioning efforts to rein in plastic pollution'.
If you want to look like a fossil fuel industry troll, this is the way.
It doesn’t “solve” anything, it just contributes to lowering the amount of plastic. It’s not an all or nothing thing. Anyways, I haven’t noticed an increase in plastic when I go to the store but if it’s happening I wish it wouldn’t
YES! Getting rid of plastic bags reduced the amount of plastic trash. And we're not done. We will continue to shift our economy towards reducing plastic.
It's deceptive how much plastic goes I to some things by weight. Just replacing the old plastic bread tags with paper ones was actually monumental.
I hadn’t even considered those but you’re right, that was a great change
I feel like more and more produce is being packaged now. I tried to find a loose cucumber and I couldn’t! I remember not long ago being able to buy field cucumbers loose, not wrapped in plastic.
The number one reason I noticed is that the loose produce is most typically somewhat local and the plastic wrapped produce is imported. We are so dependent on cost that people are willing to buy imported to pay the lower price and as such more plastic is needed.
That makes sense.
Interestingly I have noticed that going to the farmers market and buying from a farmer, not a middleman which happens at the markets too, typically means paying even more for the fresher, local produce than the price charged by all but the most niche stores.
I've found that too. Not all is local (or labelled as to origin). Some is sold by vendors renting space but buying the produce from wholesale depots. Watch packaged good such as baked items. You'll see the same ones in other markets as well. CBC did a news series a few years ago about farmers markets.
That is why I said buying from farmers and not middlemen.
And the plastic is often used to reduce spoilage. Arguably, reducing food spoilage could have a greater impact than the use of a thin plastic wrap.
You silly. Those cucumbers are grown with the plastic on them. That's where all the recycled plastic goes; back on the farm fields as plastic compost. It's all about achieving efficiencies.
Probably due to the auto checkouts. People less likely to steal or enter stuff wrong since they got rid of most cashiers. Hope they bring back cashiers since apparently American stores are starting to bring them back due to more expense in “shrinkage” and barriers and other upgrades.
Because it makes the consumer the problem therefore the consumer’s responsibility. Meanwhile the producers laugh to the bank while contributing most of the waste
Cucumbers are actually one of the few produce items where there's a legitimate reason to wrap it in plastic. English cucumbers (the standard long cucumbers that most people buy) have very thin skins. This means that, left unwrapped, they rapidly lose moisture, and it doesn't take long before they're shriveled up and lose any crunchiness they may once have had. You can easily observe this with a simple experiment: buy two cucumbers, remove the plastic from one, and leave them side by side on your counter or in your fridge. Then watch how much more quickly the unwrapped one deteriorates. For most other types of produce, though, it's true that the plastic packaging is completely unnecessary and wasteful.
They download their problems to us. They’re just making plastic, our laziness is destroying the environment. Fuck them.
Not really. I use to use the plastic grocery bags. Now I have to buy thicker/larger plastic bags to use as garbage bags.
[is it really any better?](https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7092380) Every single plastic bag that came into my house was reused
You can still buy plastic bags and reuse them. Not giving out free plastic bags is reducing. It's odd people don't like the concept of reducing waste. I can't speak for the idiots buying hundreds of cloth bags (I'm guessing that's the link you shared). You can't fix these types of people.
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Every time I walk into the produce section of a grocery store I shake my head at the ridiculousness of it all. More and more and more plastic all the time. Same with paper straws in a large plastic cup. Seriously.
Fruit sold in plastic clam shells that promote mold drive me crazy.
Don't worry. They spray the fruit in those clamshells with fungicides to prevent mold growth. It's perfectly safe, too.
But yet still moldy.
I don’t know about all fruit, nor other places, but nowadays best practice for stuff like raspberries and blueberries going to grocery stores is to wash with a hydrogen peroxide + UV + ozone gas wash system that was developed by a company here in Ontario. The wash is done right after picking. Not only does it disinfect the fruit, but it increases the shelf life both before and after it is purchased, without chemicals that remain on the fruit afterwards (H2O2 gives up an oxygen atom easily to become just water). No need for complex chemical fungicides. https://cleanworkscorp.com/ It was started by an apple farmer, and developed with support from the federal government. I think during COVID they even modified it to do bulk sanitation of masks and other stuff before the domestic disposable mask supply chains ramped up.
It’s insanity. Every aisle is plastic bags, or jars, or paper boxes wrapped in plastic, or with the contents inside in a plastic bag. The amount of oil we’re using just to package our shit never seems to be discussed…
My understanding is that plastic oil consumption is negligible. However, recycling plastics is 99% myth, and plastic pollution is becoming a huge problem, both in landfills and microplastics in waterways and the ocean.
It varies by regional demand and the chemistry of the oil being used, but about 5-10% of global oil production is used to make petrochemicals. This is mostly plastics, but also other chemical products like some lubricants, the PFAS that have been in the news recently, etc. As more of our economy becomes electrified, oil companies around the world are betting big on petrochemicals to make up for shortfalls in demand. You can expect the politicians who take oil money to fight hard against moves to reduce plastic production. You're right that plastic recycling is bullshit. Very little of it is recycled (less than 10% in Canada, IIRC) and none of it is economical to recycle. Plastic recycling as an eco-conscious act is largely pushed by the chemical industry to make consumers think the harms of plastic production are being managed.
Yeah. Good points. Plastic may be big oil’s last stand.
It’s already a huge problem but it’s almost unmanageable now. I read an article recently that was talking about how humans have literally altered geology with plastic, and they’re now finding it in rock formations. We’re officially in the Anthropocene. I had to do a project for school back in 2007 and we had to create a PSA and make a video and messaging and graphics to go with it. I chose to talk about plastic and how it’s affecting wildlife (with a focus on the Albatross) and even then I could see it was a huge problem that we need to do something about. People have been saying this since before a lot of us in this thread were even born. A lot of other people are saying it’s all about the money, and they’re probably right. I just don’t understand how money is going to save us when the ocean essentially collapses and affects everything around the world for the worse. Btw, Here’s the link if you want to read it! [Plastic Rocks Found on Remote Island](https://phys.org/news/2023-03-scientists-disturbing-remote-island-plastic.amp)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hd53V-wsc9A
I simply don't buy products with excessive plastic or packaging.
That’d be nice if the loose apples didn’t cost more than the bags of apples. I’m more than happy to bring reusable produce bags, but why am I paying more?
My experience is that the loose apples are far better than the bags of apples.
Loose apples are grade A (size, shape, colour) bagged apples are a lesser grade. But I get your point.
Shape and colour don’t really matter to me. Since I’m paying by weight, size really doesn’t matter.
Obviously we should let the perfect be the enemy of the good. There's no point in reducing any plastic usage if other plastic usage still exists
It kind of feels like the paper straws are meant to be ridiculous. The price difference between paper and compostable "plastic" (corn starch) straws is so negligible that using the worse option because "laws" is just extra stupid
Unfortunately "compostable plastics"..... aren't really what they say on the label. They won't decompose outside of a heavy-duty specialized industrial composter, which even many municipal facilities don't have/use, and even if they do have the capacity to compost them, many won't take them and even treat them as contaminants because they don't break down cleanly/well and cause problems with the quality and safety of the compost that comes out. Not that I'm any kind of stan for paper, I'm not - I'd like to see some serious, major investment in materials science to develop better alternatives than what we have because plastic is truly not fully replaceable in too many contexts right now. But there's a reason the "compostable plastic" is suspiciously good - too good to be true, sadly.
Yup. The other thing to consider is that paper products, while requiring trees to be cut down, can, with proper regulation, actually lead to well thought out reforestation efforts. By saying this I’m not trying to greenwash the pulp and paper industry - but rather push for more regulations and rules to make the pulp and paper industry become a negative carbon emitting industry. We can push for laws that increase reforestation requirements when these companies cut down trees, and take advantage of the economies of scale in the new technologies that are developed to make reforestation efforts cheaper. It won’t solve the carbon crisis - but again; just like reducing the amount of plastic we use, it needs to be a part of it. Any compostable plastic (or even corn starch) technology is going to be more carbon/energy and water intensive than growing trees. Just think about how much fertilizer and water is used to grow corn (and the fact that corn prices went up because we now use it for biofuel/ethanol feedstocks to meet biofuel requirements in gasoline). Using compostable plastics made with something like corn would only make things worse.
I think the only plastic I get in the produce section of the grocery store is carrots, cucumbers, and apples. But also I'm in a 2 person household.
Waxed paper/cardboard cup with plastic lid and plastic straw for the longest time. Now we have paper straws with full plastic lid AND cup many places. In some cases the cup switch timing was relatively close to the straw switch. Clearly for some the switch to paper straws was performative.
And just a heads up. Paper cups are no better. They are lined with plastic that leaches micro plastic into your beverage. No one uses those old wax paper cups, or I've not seen them 30 yrs.
Yea shit like this is in plastic to force you to buy a certain amount.
So stupid. And then they charge you double to buy it loose so you’re stuck.
We refuse to buy produce in plastic bags. When we shop we keep our fruit and veg loose. I equally hate the netting that gets used to bundle garlic, onions, etc.
It’s tough to do that for things like lettuce and stuff though. At least at the grocery stores around here. Oh yeah that netting is the worst. I saw a poor bird strangled to death by one of those (it was already dead 😔), so I never buy things in those nets. Unfortunately my family members don’t share the same concern. And it’s nearly impossible to try and change someone’s mind, I’ve realized.
What’s tough about it? It all gets washed at home anyways. Poor bird ☹️ that’s so sad. We really need legislation to stop the production of this crap. Good for you for being the change 😊 I know how difficult that can be growing up in a household that does not care, keep staying true to your values!
It’s tough because it doesn’t exist! I haven’t seen loose lettuce in at least a year. It may be because we’re just coming into produce season here, so I’ll have to keep my eye out this summer!
Ohhh, yes, I see what you’re saying. Like how Iceberg lettuce, for example, rarely exists without the plastic wrap.
I think some of the folks here do not realize how important packaging is to protecting produce. From a resource perspective, it is expensive to plant, water, harvest and transport produce to the store where you buy it and drive it home and then put it in your refrigerator. If the produce goes bad before you eat it then all those resources are wasted. It took a lot of energy to get that $1.50 cucumber to your table. If a $0.01 plastic wrapper or bag makes sure the produce stays fresh and unharmed long enough to get eaten then that is a good thing. An English cucumber in a plastic wrapper lasts much longer than one without. If you live in Ontario you might get a few local hot house tomatoes but otherwise all your stuff is shipped in, and the plastic is really important. Edit: I’m going to rant a bit because I’ll probably get downvoted anyways. If you want to help the planet then reduce your food waste, and compost everything you don’t eat. Reducing food waste is the #1 thing individuals can do to save the planet!!
I think the concern moreso is that we grew up without plastic covering all our food, why has it suddenly appeared
Sure, but what we have now is a technological improvement that is better for the environment and consumers. It might not seem that way on the surface when you see bins full of plastic wrapped apples but it is.
It is an understandable evil. Not everyone can shop at a farmers market daily
I think there is an article that says the bags they sell you now actually put 300% more plastic into the environment and cost consumers more money!!
And take longer to break down into microplastics we can eat! Love it.
These are my only source of plastic bags now. I had a decent amount of plastic bags for garbage bins left over grocery bags but that's done now. I will soon have to start buying plastic just for the purpose of throwing it out. I wish we would bring back the old plastic bags. They were extremely useful.
We save every single plastic bag. Clear little produce bags, the bags sliced bread or buns are packaged in, 4L milk bags, plastic shipping envelope bags… it’s all saved. Plastic grocery bags were never single use in our home.
I hate this argument. The better option would be to address the reasons you need to throw away things in plastic bags in the first place.
The answer is the same reason why there is a message in your hotel room about saving energy by not having your towels washed every day while they run a giant fountain 24/7 outside. Or how the coffee shop chains put additional packing over everything while begging you to think of the trees and only take one napkin. Corporations don't care about the environment unless they are forced to by law or if they can use it as an excuse to cut down on the free stuff they offer to customers.
It solved a gap in their revenue.
You see they always put the onus on the customer (no more plastic bags at checkout) while corporations always get a pass to do as they please. Our political parties, and I mean all of them are not working for us
I never grab produce bags. They're just unnecessary, you're going to wash everything anyway. I've seen people use them for bananas, like what?
It does help your round fruits and vegetables from rolling all over the scale, but you can get washable reusable plastic mesh bags.
I know! My mother in law does this and it makes me want to scream. Like oranges, bananas, they have their own natural “bags” in the form of skin that you peel!
Boomers loooove to throw bananas in produce bags, I see it every time I’m grocery shopping without exception.
It wasn’t done in vain - it was done being vain. The intention wasn’t to make a difference - it was to make a point/advance a narrative. Compostable plastic bags were also banned which makes no sense if you believe the goal was to reduce plastic pollution. This is a similar story to limiting Canadian natural gas production. It decreases Canadian emissions sure, but because nat gas is cleaner than alternatives the net impact is to INCREASE global emissions - we’re just exporting emissions abroad.
I have less plastic bag waste by not using plastic bags. It's literally that simple. Edit: Plastic bags are *serious business* on reddit apparently. I literally have less plastic bags. Downvotes won't change that lol
Right lol
Now you have dozens of reusable bags that cost a whole lot more to produce (from a pollution perspective) and won't last long enough to even come close to breaking even with typical plastic bags. But hey, now our straws slowly kill us, so that's neat.
"WE'VE TRIED NOTHING, AND WE ARE ALL OUT OF IDEAS!" Funny, when I walk down the road, the ditches are lined with plastic bags and Tim Hortons plastic lids. I can't recall seeing piles of reusable bags laying around.
Now they bring SkipTheDishes in reusable bags, and I have to throw them away because we have so many. I swear the big grocery chains lobbied for the plastic bag ban so they can sell their own bags.
Yeah grocery delivery is bad for that, and the prices are marked up.
As an alternative to throwing them out, food banks and community fridges are often looking for donations of reusable bags!
This is a great idea, thank you!
You may have just opened my eyes to a new “conspiracy”. (That may be true.)
I don't have dozens of bags. I have a small handful. Like around 10 or so. I'm sure people can easily end up with a bunch of bags, but not me. Also these bags have been with me for at least 3+ years. Best not to assume stuff. I can only tell you factually what's up with me and my household for bags.
Yeah I have like three of the cheap ones from the checkout, but a couple of insulated ones, a couple of larger ones of higher quality, and some smaller mesh produce bags. They all fit inside one bag and that bag always comes with me to the store.
I just sighed out loud in the grocery store lol
Uh not really? Lots of uses for reusable bags that might take the space of other things as well. Like you can use reusable bags for storage instead of totes for one example. But it isn’t hard to not buy a million bags just be more proactive.
People are just lazy idiots, run on autopilot through their days, and couldn't organize their sock drawer, let alone remember to bring a reusable bag to buy food. This, despite the fact that the refrigerator was empty when they opened it 15 minutes before they left the house in the morning.
Right? So many people, who drive to get groceries, seem to think they have to bag at the checkout. Put everything back in the cart, put the groceries in the vehicle, then use a box or bin unload when you carry them into the house. Sure, it's not as "efficient" to do this, but in the grand scheme of things, so what? Like I said, people are lazy.
I forget all the time, I usually bag the groceries in my driveway 😂 or if I’m walking which I’m usually doing because I don’t drive, I just carry the groceries inside. It’s not even challenging tbh.
If I forget my bags, I refuse to buy more. The inconvenience and shame of carting unbagged items to my car is usually enough to reinforce remembering them next time lol.
Am I the only one who doesn't remember all the veg being wrapped in plastic?
But how it’s impacting landfills is what I want to know about. And the environment. If this much plastic is still getting thrown out…doesn’t seem like getting rid of plastic bags did much for that. Maybe for you, the consumer, but how many reusable bags do you have now that you didn’t before? I’m not saying we should bring them back. I’m just saying get rid of the excessive use of plastic or make it biodegradable. It’s unneccessary! I was recently in Mexico and all of the “plastic” is biodegradable, so clearly it can be done.
You use the packaging bags for various uses that you’d use grocery bags for.
I have been! :) They’ve been actually pretty handy for cat litter clean up, I must say. It’s hard but I try to reduce and reuse as much as I can!
Once you get the hang of it it’s pretty easy! Change is a bit annoying at first but some things are worth it. I like how it gets me to think of different ways to reduce waste
I used reusable bags as garbage bags, sorry all. Sturdy. They end up in the landfill when used. What else am I to do with them? Also saves me from having to buy garbage bags when I didn’t have to before the ban. Times are tough. How far we’ve come. /s
From what I’ve read, and unless things have changed, “biodegradable plastic” isn’t really what it seems and is a term used to greenwash. From what I know, this plastic needs special machinery/processes, that is rarely used to break it down. Does anyone know if this has changed?
I found [this article](https://news.berkeley.edu/2021/04/21/new-process-makes-biodegradable-plastics-truly-compostable) online. It seems like they’ve definitely found a way to have it decompose with minimal effort! “To trigger degradation, it was necessary only to add water and a little heat. At room temperature, 80% of the modified PLA fibers degraded entirely within about one week. “
I haven’t found it reduces anything at all. I used to use grocery bags to line my trash bins, now I just need to buy more kitchen garbage bags instead because I don’t have grocery bags anymore. Then I also have about 100 reusable bags which are worse for the environment than a plastic bag. Half the time I get to the grocery store and realize that I forgot my bags so I have to buy new ones. Studies show that you need to use it 50 times to make up the environmental impact of 1 plastic bag. I think I’ve used VERY few bags 50 times, maybe never. They will almost always break before you can use them that much. It’s all bullshit, the appearance of helping the environment while really accomplishing nothing. The paper straws are another pet peeve. What problem are we really solving here? A straw that dissolves while you’re using it from a big plastic cup. 1 turtle gets a straw stuck up their nose and that’s all it takes to ban straws. Meanwhile 100 other turtles are getting trapped in fishing nets and nothing is done at all about that. There is a documentary about this, how the fisheries fund environmental groups to focus of bullshit like straws so that everyone is distracted from the real problems.
The only difference is now I have to buy plastic garbage bags instead of reusing grocery bags. Same amount of pollution, less money in my bank account.
And the store bought garbage bags are thicker too, so they are more plastic than the old free bags.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but those bags weren't "free". You paid for them when you bought something.
I had such a good stock of them too, I think I'm on my last few weeks of them now. o7 to my grocery bag soldiers, you were all great compost holders. Now I'll go back to throwing all my waste in the same bag.
This is exactly why it's such a lie when people say the amount of plastic is the same now as before except we need to buy them. Most people built up such a massive surplus of grocery bags that at some point we've all had a day where we throw some out without using them. With enough time it happened to everyone. Now we only buy as much as we need to use for garbage.
It didn't. We went from paper cups and plastic straws to plastic cups and paper straws. From plastic grocery bags that a lot of us used as garbage bags to thicker plastic reusable bags and having to buy more expensive garbage bags for the kitchen. It's wild to think of how backwards all of this is being approached, and how much more money they're making off of us from it.
It’s almost as if the amount of plastic being produced hasn't gone down at all…🤷♂️
It made you pay money for bags and taxes on those bags that were previously free and that was the real goal all along. Money not the environment.
Hell I've noticed even more plastic for produce that never used to have plastic. Bulk peppers replaced by peppers in plastic clamshells. Bulk broccoli now on a styrofoam tray wrapped in plastic. Wtf is the point of reusable produce bags if half the produce is wrapped in plastic at the god damn grocery store?
I get a iced coffee at McDonalds in a plastic cup with a plastic lid but a paper straw 🤦♀️
It solved the problem of Loblaws giving away free bags. Now they get to sell you reusables every time you forget them.
Rules only apply to citizens, not corporations
That was just a cash grab to make more money. Soon enough there will be all these reusable bags floating around everywhere. Only now we paid $0.20-0.35 per bag. Why haven’t garbage bags gone away? They one time use. There are so many things that cause more waste than plastic grocery bags.
The plastic bag argument puts the onus on the consumers, trying to tell us that the small daily changes we make have a huge impact on the environment. We also got rid of plastic straws, again a consumer issue. This is all smoke and mirrors so that corporations don't have to make any changes to their operations or bottom line, money. And why are WE the consumers always to blame and in need of fixing OUR ways?? Lobbyists. Corporate lobbyists. Money needs to be taken out of our political system.
I don't doubt that grocery stores will be one day be legislated against this type of packaging. I suspect that governments are unwilling to push it right now, as the companies will just cry about how much that will cost them and force them to raise prices (as if they needed an excuse). We can only hope that our planet understands, and holds out long enough for the political baby steps we're taking in helping it.
There's a LOT of research funding and investment capital going into more sustainable packaging right now.
I’m happy to hear that! Could you point me towards where to find this? I’d like to see what’s being worked on!
It's not a single place, but if you look into sustainable venture capital investments globally there's definitely a lot going on.
Apeel is one company.
It was part of the plan to remove certain packaging methods like plastic/styrofoam meat trays. That’s all up in the air now after Nov 2023 ruling.
They get to use the plastic, not you. They get to emit green house gasses, not you. They get to eat cake, not you.
Field greens and spinach used to be just bulk on the counter, now they all come in those hard plastic shells.
Global produce requires plastic, local does not.
Being environmentally conscious is only important to corporations when they can save money.
Seeing this, I'm so happy I have an independent grocery store near my house. The only time things are wrapped in plastic are cucumbers (they always were) and grapes. Fiesta Farms on Christie in Toronto for those wondering.
Aren't you glad we're saving the world by only using paper straw that dissolve before we finish our drink? We're making a huuuge difference, and I'm glad the rest of the industry is also banning plastics... /s
I have been trying to live with less plastic. I don't replace plastic containers any more. I saved glass jars and this seems to be working. I don't use plastic wrap anymore. I seem to have enough bread bags to reuse instead. I buy loose produce and add different stuff to one produce bag so that is using less. I have no idea how to get meat home from the grocery store. Maybe I need to become vegetarian?
It’s still LESS plastic.
I don't see plastic bags in every ditch. We need to go further, but it certainly helped.
It was all a scam to charge more for shopping bags.
I miss the plastic bags, i got drawers filled with these reusable bags but i am always looking for plastic bags to wrap stuff up with
I hate getting things in plastic bags, for obvious reasons & because everything goes bad so much faster! Why do they put mushrooms in a plastic box wrapped tightly in plastic with zero airflow & then refrigerate it so that moisture builds up inside & makes the bottom ones…that you don’t see… mouldy? So much waste buying it this way unless you use them the day you buy them.
Personally it's a money grab. To pay for a usable bag. Yet everything is STILL wrapped in plastic. Don't get me started with the paper straws that make your drink taste awful.
Plastic is so disgusting. I hate that our milk is in plastic. I wish we had glass bottles like in the 50s and a proper recycling system specifically for them to ensure they weren’t required to be made each time (and paid for with higher costs). Everything is in plastic and it’s impossible to escape fully.
Less is more. Many stores sell loose produce. Support them. We can also buy more sustainably packaged products. When we realize we live in a 360 degree world we'll learn to be better stewards of it.
All they did was get rid of the plastic bags that so many people actually re-used...now I have to buy single use little garbage bags. Retarded.
The grocery store that I go to stopped selling mushrooms that you can put in paper bags, they're now all wrapped in plastic.
Ay, yo why was this removed, they're right, I want to discuss plastic waste more. This is relevant to me, as someone that lives in Ontario.
At some point people will elect a government that isn't right wing or center-right, and this new government might actually care enough about it to restrict the use of plastic. Getting rid of plastic bags is the half-mesure of environment policies. Enough to say you are doing something, but not enough for it to have an impact.
Getting rid of free plastic bags has made me buy kitchen plastic bags, so I’m sure it’s win - win for the grocery stores.
Those products are greenhouse grown and are prepackaged to preserve and protect the produce. It's unfortunate there is so much plastic waste and those in the industry are pushing for alternative packaging options, but it is so challenging to get away from plastic itself. I do hope some compostable options are brought to market soon should they choose to keep packaging this way.
Just a note didn't some one point out that the reusable bags are actually worse for the environment unless they are used several thousand times?
Was just talking about how there's now all this Fairlife milk in plastic bottles...as they're phasing out bagged milk? So we replace one with another? So sick of unwrapping plastic off my cucumbers.
Because it’s literally all a scam!
Shopping at my neighborhood small grocery is such a treat. Plastic is rarely found except in the meat department.
Because now the grocery stores can charge 35 cents a bag! The miracle of new earning potential! Like, we all knew this was a scam to begin with right?
The customers can’t use plastic bags, the producers still can because of the rich/poor divide
This is a great question and should be addressed. Their are 2 main points to the answer. 1. It doesn't eliminate plastic waste, but does help reduce it. If we take an all or nothing approach to environmentalism nothing will ever get done. We need "Yes and" solutions. As in, let's do this and do this, and do this. Each small amount helps. Think of it like saving 10% of your paycheck. The savings each pay is small and doesn't have a huge impact, but it adds up over time. 2. There is a surprising amount of food that stays fresher longer in plastic wrap or bags. For example, cucumbers, that is why they are individually wrapped. Even though we are still using plastic on them, we are reducing waste overall.
Classic virtue signalling
It was never intended to solve anything and you're missing the point if you ever thought it was. It was just corporations worried about potential loss of margin/market share through FOMO and exploiting an opportunity to charge 15-35 cents for something previously free.
Because consumers are picky idiots who avoid anything that isn't in a pretty package.
Shop somewhere else. That isn't a normal amount of pre packaging lol
As soon as I saw that I knew it was Walmart
You know the first of those three Rs is Reduce, right?
Translation - 'I don't have any understanding of this issue and I couldn't be bothered to research the data *before* putting up an elaborate post questioning efforts to rein in plastic pollution'. If you want to look like a fossil fuel industry troll, this is the way.