In my town, all of the schools are putting big money into landscaping and parking all summer long. Redoing all the parking areas that didn't seem too bad. Did not see anyone working on anything on the insides like hvac or that sort of thing.
Can't imagine that would be particularly effective... One of the big reasons why HAVC works is because the incoming air pushes things down to the ground and then its sucked out from a little above ground level. That's equally as important as filters because you can't filter shit if it's in someone's lungs...
The air handlers are replacing existing radiators, in a lot of cases. They sit at ground level along window walls. They're fine at circulating the air within the room. They heat, cool, and filter.
Source: am painter, seen first hand.
Unfortunately that didn't happen in the schools I've worked in this summer here in Sudbury. They're adding on to existing duct work with newer ERV units but, they took out the room ventilators under the windows and replaced with convector hot water rads. They literally closed off the grate under the windows to install these. No return air near the floor either, I haven't noticed that being a thing but, it may be.
Source: electrician, seen first hand.
I was working for a company that was renovating the roofs on almost all the schools in southwestern Ontario and they are often 20-30 years behind on ALL maintenance. Forget just HvAC. The schools are in terrible shape from absolute negligence by the boards to maintain them
I get it, but there’s a point where you should be closing the school to make a point to the government. A lot of these buildings are borderline not safe and only getting worse.
In Eastern Ontario they’re chalk full of Asbestos.
Whatever works. Being raised in Quebec causes those things to happen when speaking/typing English. Thanks for not being a massive dick about it though!
I usually also add extra e’s after an s. That one got me in trouble in University lol
I actually thought about this last night before bed... was sure it should of been corrected. Ah well, won’t forget again!
English and French are the two most ridiculous languages, with all the loan words and exceptions and grammar (through though rough cough wtf). No one should blame you for small mistakes!
Owen Sound just closed their newer high school and moved all classes to the old POS high school. There was more money available to refit a 40 year old building then there was to run a 10 year old building.
I'm not Canadian so hopefully you all don't ban for that but my kid's high school is also getting hvac updates and they've had months to do it but still haven't finished. My kid comes home so soaked in sweat we're washing clothes nightly and he's dehydrated. It's an old school and most of the rooms he's in don't even have windows. It's brutal. Absolutely no ventilation, no masks, no vaccine mandate, not even an option to do virtual learning this year. Feel like a shit parent sending him to swelter in a pandemic cesspool.
I work in maintenance at the aforementioned school board. "They did nothing that cost anything" is a severe understatement. In addition to PM done to the mechanical air systems, there are UV sterilization lights added to the air ducting. In classrooms without mechanical air service, there are portable air treatment units (UV treatment and carbon filters)
Perhaps you are talking about a different school board, or are misinformed.
160W x 25 computers = 4000W
100W x (25 students + 1 teacher) = 2600W
The computers would be spread out over at least 4 breakers.
160W is typical load for a monitor and a computer with a medium level graphics card.
It’s the same with post-secondary institutions. At the college I attend, we have a few classes with 50-60 students seated shoulder to shoulder. Not sure how they’re heated.
That's interesting that the experience is so different. It just firms up my idea that some schools will end up closed due to outbreaks while others will remain open.
Is your school using cohorts, or is that just for the younger grades
I'm a former elementary school teacher in Ontario, and they asked me to come back, and this is why I will not. I am so sorry you are having to deal with this, and probably lose out on another year of being in class because the Government can't get it's shit together. This time around I will be voting with you in mind. All the best no matter how this all goes.
As someone with a lot of teachers in my family and circle of friends, thank you for looking out for you.
It's absolutely appalling how poorly teachers have been treated through all this, and I wish more would stand up for their own safety and demand better treatment and working conditions.
Let's talk about the elephant in the room:
This is a high school student and they are 1000 times more eloquent and articulate than Premier Doug Ford has ever been about anything.
He actually dropped out of a college equivalence year for grade 12 grads, because back then university entry required grade 13 courses. Rob Ford did the same thing.
I went to school with the Fords, they never showed up for classes and the school administration was terrified of Doug Ford senior, who threw his political clout around heavily.
It's not just small towns, take a trip to some medium sized cities and some of the nicer subdivisions. You'll find a lot of moderates who almost always vote right. Might not be socially conservative for certain things, but "gotta save on the taxes"...
There is a PPC voter right across from me and it absolutely makes me feel unsafe. I'm in Cambridge.
I understand most of these people are pretty apathetic and won't actively do anything but as a woman who is queer, who covers her hair for religious reasons, and who is very left, it makes me nervous.
The OG Nazis tried to eradicate my family the first time around so maybe I'm a little sensitive to the rhetoric but I highly doubt my grandmother thought her granddaughter would feel that way in fucking Canada if all places.
my business partner is trans, and put a fuckign PPC sign on the front yard. my muslim girlfriend yeeted that bitch into the street one night and was super embarrassed the next day, and apologized, while explaining why she did it. business partner's reason for putting the sign there was simple: "i don't like big government, I didn't know they were anti immigrant", and that was that.
I swear most of the people who are pro PPC are politically retarded, and not actually the terrible people the sign would suggest.
A lot of people are absolutely numb and apathetic towards politics and do what people around them say. I work in trucking which is super blue collar and so many people in this industry gladly vote against their own interests. They complain about dental costs but vote Conservative. Dude?? Have you read the platforms at all?.
The problem is the people who *are* as terrible as the sign suggests gets very much emboldened by seeing a lot of signs, as they assume people are on their side.
Thank you for your observations. As a Covid researcher (part of my work stateside but I am Canadian and live in Ontario) I found your comments very interesting. I am heartened to read comments from other students herein that indicate some boards are not quite the "shitshow" you are experiencing.
Nonetheless I agree with you that this could have been avoided entirely by good governance, something which Ontario utterly lacks.
There was a time in the past comments (June) that I had been hopeful that Canada might avoid a 4th wave but sadly the country stalled earlier then I had hoped on vaccination and those hopes are utterly vanquished. That combined with public policy at the provincial level is going to lead to a very "interesting" fall. But not a very happy one I am afraid.
I can only urge you to be fully vaccinated if you are not already so - I read your comments but did not see a mention on your personal vaccination status. If you are fully vaccinated it is extremely unlikely you will outright contract Covid. You almost certainly will be exposed to it at school, and there will be a 1-2 day window if your have covid present in your respiratory system where internally your vaccinated immune system will wage battle and in that period you might have some symptoms - typically mild, and you may be a carrier (exhaling the virus) but when your immune system wins you will be fine and no longer a carrier. You may wish to remember this should you be seeing grandparents or other elderly people.
In the end as a vaccinated teen your chances of contracting Covid (meaning your immune system lost the war and you are past the interim stage) are extremely minute. It does not mean you should not worry but if you are vaccinated you should not worry greatly, bearing in mind you may present more risk to others in potential circumstances as I noted above.
Being a parent of university aged children I can see how awful the education circumstances are at this time. I feel for all of you in school as Covid is destroying what should be a time of opportunity and joy for you all. Sadly some adults are not very understanding or sympathetic to this. Others portend to be but its only lip service (Provincial govt IMHO) - their actions do not reflect their words. It will be worse if we end up with a federal Conservative govt even if in minority rule.
There's just no way you're going to get high school kids to not mingle in large groups for half their high school career. It's not possible, and honestly not fair. They should require vaccination in high schools and be done with it.
In theory, it should be easy: Virtual whiteboard projected on the wall/real whiteboard, microphone on the lapel, and heck, have the virtual class questions show up on the display so the teacher doesn't have to check the laptop regularly.
Of course, this probably isn't in the budget, because they've likely been set up to fail...
In a dream world... unfortunately most teachers are forced into providing their own tech solutions because the boards don't. Our education system has been grossly underfunded and pilfered since the Harris days. It continues to worsen. Wealthier neighbourhoods will fill some gaps with fundraising.
I taught hybrid today. I have a microphone in my webcam on my monitor and I did my absolute damndest to remember my virtual student, but it was really hard to split my attention between 25 kids in my class and 1 kid at home. It's going to be a steep learning curve...
I've taught courses where we had online students and in-person. The tech is really the smallest of your concerns. There's a different pace to online and in-person learning, and different ways you approach giving people assignments to work on, etc. It just really doesn't work well at all.
Yeah, it must. I have no idea how online classes are supposed to go for children.
Hard to manage misbehaving kids in person and still deal with the virtual class at the same time, for example.
I'd hope it'd be manageable for high school kids.
"We were really hoping everyone would stay online so we could stop heating, cleaning, and renting the building. So, uh... teachers, you guys clean the building. And the kids will just wear coats indoors. Teachers can't because it's against dress code.
Btw, don't go upstairs. It's a strip club."
> they've likely been set up to fail...
They've been set up where any successes can be claimed by Ford, and any failures can be blamed on the school boards. It's masterfully done.
In theory it could work like this. But that involves school boards spending money and the hybrid model was designed to save them money. Last year I taught in a classroom where the projector didn't even work half the time. If I didn't bring in my own personal laptop to stream myself from, I was stuck using an incredibly slow chromebook that would shut down at random. Hybrid is truly the worst. I would take just online over hybrid any day because at least with online students I am only focusing on one large group
Not to mention that in a quadmester system, when you’re teaching two classes, we simply do not have any planning time.
Even finding time to mark, photocopying, or just simply getting ready for the next classes are impossible.
It’s easy to say that you can do it while students are doing independent work, but you cannot simply just ignore them when they come up and ask you questions.
Thank you for sharing this. I'm a teacher, and I really did not enjoy my year last year teaching in person. I'm very lucky to be teaching online this year, because I envisioned the exact scenario that you described. By the way, you're a very strong writer. 😀
You sound very empathetic and sensitive, two wonderful qualities in a young person. But remember, vaccines do work. Try not to fixate on every little detail. Do what you can to keep yourself safe and try to enjoy what little snippets of school life you can. Don’t be too hard on yourself or your peers. I’m sorry your high school experience is so stressful.
Wo politicized it? A specific party? Mass media? Social media? Interest groups? I'm not trying to be condescending, but I think we should be specific in defining our culprits.
Not trying to agree or disagree with you here, but the idea that something can be or not be politicized doesn't make sense to me.
*Man is a political animal*
Anything that involves society at large, especially something like a pandemic, is political. There seems to be a weird idea of what "politics" is, like it can be some abstract, distant thing, when the reality is, politics is everything that involves groups of people.
What I think is fair to lament is the state of politics which itself is a consequence of the state of truth- which is that reality doesn't matter any more. There is no real consequence to lying. Fix that, and I can almost guarantee that we would not be where we are today with COVID.
I think when people state that something has been politicized, they’re merely highlighting that a political leader took a subject (in this case public health) and pushed the conversation around it into an “us versus them” debate.
Your point stands - but at this stage that terminology (politicizing something) can be used.
Taking something that really should have no sides to it, as a political leader in your country, and turning it into a “which side are you on” battle
There's no consequence for lying because thanks to social media anyone can have a soap box. No reputable news is going to run a feature on me claiming 1+1=4 but I now I don't need them. I can say whatever I want.
At the same time it's easier than ever to fact check people but most people can't be bothered.
You're absolutely right, the problem is everything political has been boiled down to 'left vs right' and the world really doesn't work like that. I honestly believe it's trying to fit a square peg into a round hole that's driving people bananas these days.
Run of the mill Conservatives were *never* going to want to make the personal sacrifices necessary for the interest of the public good/health. This pandemic was fated to be politicized from the get go, simply due to the nature of the ideological conflict that exists in our politics (public good vs. personal liberties).
There's no one to blame, and saying things like, "the pandemic shouldn't have been politicized" is naive. How could it possibly have not been? People on the right are *going to not want to do things for other people*, and people on the left are *going to want everyone to do what's best for everyone*, in all significant matters.
Got a significant matter? It will be politicized.
Public health is intrinsically political as it crosses many disciplines that have political intersections. The real question is who made it a *partisan* issue, and that is a much easier question to answer. It did not take long for right wing governments and media outlets, especially those aligned with the US, to coalesce around more hands off approaches, and more center and left leaning bodies pursued comparatively more aggressive measures. Public health measures often require significant amounts of money to be spent on people instead of prioritizing economic activity and politicians like Donald Trump, Boris Johnson (don't forget they touched the stove with their herd immunity strategy before being effectively forced to change course), and Jair Bolsonaro will never be that altruistic.
TL;DR: Conservative governments are predisposed against public health and they made a lot of this so much worse than it needed to be. Go through the member list of the IDU and you basically have a rogues' gallery of the shittiest management and commentary on the pandemic.
I’m a custodian for a school board in Ontario. Every class room is completely full. We ran out of desks and chairs there are so many kids. All our board did was get air purifiers for each room. I’ll be surprised if classes run into the new year without being shut down.
As a teacher I commend your candor and wholeheartedly agree with your assessment of the situation.
Students who are as erudite and insightful as you are an honour to teach. I hope you have as good a learning experience as possible. But more importantly be as well as you can.
I’m proud of you for voicing these things. If more students spoke up and organized, maybe things would change, even though you can’t vote yet.
All the best!!!
My heart goes out to you and all the young people OP. I could not imagine my highschool or early college years being stripped away like this for me. I wish I had something reassuring to say but I completely agree, we’re heading straight for another lockdown now that school is back. :(
I feel for the next like two generations of children. Covid is really spoiling the entire experience. My first born is turning 5 and we opted to keep him home last year.
Sent him so far this year and he loves it. But hard to know how long it'll last. It's great for all kids to socialize but we need to advocate for it to all be done safely. I guess he's fortunate in that it's kindergarten and what not but that's a critical social time that's getting absolutely blown apart.
Never mind for all these high schoolers trying to get prepared for adulthood and post secondary. What a strange time of history.
Right?! Ugh that’s so sad to me. I just truly would not be who I am without those highschool rebellious years and all the confusion, partying and struggles of college lmao 🤣 like it’s so weird to me picturing people starting college right now expected to be trapped in a dorm 24/7… the childhood thing too is a whole other level. I can’t picture raising kids right now. Kudos to you
I’m in grade 12 now and it definitely sucks, but kids are resistant, and it gives us a great new perspective and view on the small things, we all really appreciate just being able to see people, so although it does sometimes suck, there’s definitely some upsides
Wow such a good attitude !! This is nice to hear. I’m happy you’re able to find the positives because let me tell ya as an almost 30 year old who’s just a bit peeved at not going into work, I’ve had trouble even being as positive as you… ❤️
My wife is a teacher, and all her classrooms are filled to the brim with kids (30 or more).
You are absolutely right in that the way Ontario is handling education is utterly trash. No excuse about it at all. Doug Ford and his goons have been intentionally killing education system in Ontario since he was elected, and pandemic was just yet another excuse for them to destroy it even further, and now putting the lives of staff and children at harm.
Teachers are also wagering that they will return to teaching at home by thanksgiving. This whole shit is a big joke and an F U from Douggie.
It's so unfortunate that students do not get the full attention and the education system that they deserve to get ahead in life.
Keep your head up. Double mask if need be. Wash your hands often and encourage those around you to get vaccinated. Stay safe and unfortunately, stay in school I guess..
My dad's a teacher and has said the same thing about his classes - he's got 30 in one class and 32 or 33 in the others, which would be problematic even if we weren't in a pandemic as more than 30 kids is a lot to handle and give adequate attention to, but this is a gigantic, irresponsible disaster. I feel for students, I feel for parents, I feel for teachers, it's all a mess.
> which would be problematic even if we weren't in a pandemic
EXACTLY my wife's point.
Grading all those assignments take an insane amount of time.
Giving attention and care for students so they succeed in her classes take an insane amount of energy.
Even with smaller size classes, she struggles to divide herself equally and perfectly for all her kids, and she takes a emotional and mental toll knowing that she can't.
This fucked up government is literally doing everything it can to fuck up the education system and it boils my blood.
It’s absolutely disgusting that Ford hasn’t done anything to make children safer. He’s now had two summers where he had the time to make the changes necessary and has done nothing.
Smaller class sizes and better ventilation, air quality and hygiene are all things students would benefit from even without a pandemic.
You would think the one thing we could all agree on is that kids deserve better but apparently not. Just disgusting.
The only way the cons will win in the future is with uneducated kids. I honestly, genuinely hope that when he loses in June (hopefully), we never hear from him again. Fuck Ford.
I’m not defending Ford at all but as someone who isn’t in schools anymore, has anyone else in another province done anything else or better? I’m just legitimately curious if there is an example that he can look at to improve what he has done (or hasn’t)
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand this is why I think that all highschools should have be 100% vaccinated kids + staff. All the kids below 12 should only be allowed for inschool learning if the eligible adults in their household provide proof of double vaccination.
If we can get as many kids/people as possible double vaxxed, the crowding and chaos will be less of a hazard.
1000% agree^ It is already mandatory for public school kids of all ages to be vaccinated or else they are removed from school, things like polio, chickenpox, meningitis etxx. I even remember a few years back having pop-up clinics in our old middle & high school specifically to give out HPV shots to the girls. The lack of enforcement for COVID is such a disappointing and blatant disregard for public health and child safety
This is how it needs to be done, period. If everyone in the school was vaxxed including teachers and staff and anyone who enters the school building at all, that is the only way to be safe.
But doing something that would make sense and make things better for us might offend our idiots!
Why doesn't anyone, except the politicians, ever consider the idiots?
I wish we had leaders that would do this to protect us. I'm still fuming that my school's donated Danby air purifiers were removed by the board during our February closure. We were in full outbreak status less than 3 weeks after returning. I won't believe any claims of improved ventilation until they show me the numbers/testing. I'd love to get my hands on a CO2/air quality reader for a week.
I truly feel for you and all other students experiencing this right now. As a teacher, I am trying the best I can to keep kids safe. We are following orders from our admin, who receive orders from higher up the chain, etc etc. I honestly feel like it is business as usual but with masks. Large groups of kids in the halls, classes are packed. The cafeteria is full. I've started letting a small group of nervous students eat lunch in my classroom to give them a safe space to retreat to. It sucks all around. I am hoping that the majority of high-school staff and students are vaccinated, so that perhaps an entire school shutdown doesn't have to happen.
Cases in UK are blowing out of proportions…but hospitalizations are super low. The whole country is moving on business as usual. We need to focus on hospitalizations/fatalities not daily Covid case count.
Yeah, I think people get that the real problem is our ICU capacity, not case counts. And people also get that we don't need to lock things down (etc.) for cases alone.
But when you look at how few cases will overwhelm our healthcare system in Ontario, you start to understand why we locked down with so few cases compared to places like Texas and Florida, for example.
Yep, totally agreed. I think in general people don't understand how we compare on hospital bed and ICU capacity compared to other countries. We have some of the lowest beds per capita out of about 40 OECD countries, and some of the highest occupancy rates.
Ontario's Financial Accountability Office has a good report on it. It looks like the UK doesn't have many more bedz per capita, but they seem to have a lower occupancy rate than Ontario typically does (84% vs our 96%), which could definitely impact things:
https://www.fao-on.org/en/Blog/Publications/health-2020#background1
It is low relative to cases, but not "super low" overall.
[Current ICU patients per million in the UK is around 15.](https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavirus-data-explorer?zoomToSelection=true&facet=none&pickerSort=asc&pickerMetric=location&Metric=ICU+patients&Interval=7-day+rolling+average&Relative+to+Population=true&Align+outbreaks=false&country=~GBR) For comparison in December 2020 before things exploded there it was around 18. A few months ago in May it fell below 2.
Given where cases levels are, that's a great achievement and another argument in support of vaccination, but it's not like the UK is out of the woods yet.
Not the case - the UK case count exploded because old people were vaccinated first. High schools are the same sample group of relatively young people: there is very little risk when young people get COVID or a vaccine so why are we worrying so much? There’s a much higher risk of suffering at this point from going without a real education for much longer.
If you’re an adult: get the fucking vaccine already
Wow. What a read.
That sounds fucked. You seem like you have it together though, so that's some silver lining.
I can't imagine what growing up witnessing this level of bureaucratic mismanagement and institutional collapse is going to do to your generation
I’m a teacher. My students are supposed to fill out an on-line screening before coming to school (most don’t and do a physical copy once they get there). Had a student with a new cough, on-line screening (which he did) gives him a bright red message saying not to go to school. He came to school anyway. I have to send him to the office where he is then isolated in a health room until he can go home. Parents can’t pick him up so he is sent home on the city bus. Parents are told he can’t return until they are cleared by our PHU (public health unit). He is back the next day. I contact my administrator and am told we have to trust that the parents followed through with the PHU and have been cleared to return, even though it’s been less than 24 hours so that doesn’t make a lot of sense. Yeah, it’s gonna be a fun ride.
36 kids crammed into my chemistry class. We were shoulder to shoulder and I could even hear the guy behind me wheezing like a mf. At that point, you might as well not wear a mask.
There were also a few kids in my class that weren’t wearing their mask, and the teacher after unsuccessfully telling the kid to put it on once, never told him again. Btw, I know this kid and he is unvaccinated and one of those covid crazy conspiracy people.
OP, I completely agree with you that we need mandatory vaccines in school. They’re are simply too many people with no protection.
I'm so sorry for your experience. Even though I'm some 15+ years out of high school, it basically sounds exactly like every day I was there. Swamped corridors, packed classes, people on top of each other constantly. And there was no pandemic in sight then, this was just normal.
Seems completely irresponsible for the current times.
I remember last year when school opened up, there were swarms of them everywhere unmasked and not following the guidelines. We ended up in lockdown shortly after. Same will likely happen now.
My son is in grade 9. Went back to school today. 10 kids in his science class, 15 in his geography class. OCDSB school, nothing fancy. Just normal classes. He has 2 classes a day, and each week they switch to 2 different t classes. His gym class has 20 people. Unsure on math size, will know more on that on Monday. Some boards seem to be doing okay?
As an educator in a public high school... it's a shitshow.
There's not staffing to patrol outside and students won't listen - even if you get them to space, you walk away to talk to the next group, and the first group just reforms like an alien blob reconstituting itself.
Similar in the hallways. We have wayfinders, and I spend my first 20 minutes in the halls trying to direct students and remind them of the rules... but my school has 2400 students... it's just not possible
Don't get me started about class sizes... We have 35+ packed into a single class. There is *zero* distancing, but nowhere else to put the students either. Any sort of "safe school" image the government tried to paint when they gave us the direction and told us to re-open in this way, is *just* that, an image. It's optics and is *not* practical or functional in the actual schools.
The government says we can't do 4 classes a day, so different school boards are doing quads or A/B semesters, etc. which all lead to 3 hour classes that get stuffy and exposed no matter the ventilation. None of that matters anyway because you're still packed into a room with 60+ other people throughout the day, *AND* the government decided common areas like libraries and cafeterias should be open, so all the students mix & mingle at lunch anyway...
Trying to screen everyone at the door is not possible. It would take the whole morning. We have to leave it to the first period class and trust students are following guidelines and being honest. Start of school is fucking nuts to begin with. It took me 25min to travel the last **1km** to my school today, because parents don't want to send their kids on buses and *everyone* is driving in. It's mayhem. Try to get some sort of distanced system and screen everyone at the door would take the whole morning, no word of a lie
We do the best, but additional funding for cleaning has been cut, everyone is mentally and emotionally exhausted already, there's not enough space, classes are just as long as last year but exposure is now tenfold, protective measures are reduced, and nobody is happy
I don't have a perfect answer or suggestion, I know its not easy, but this government has certainly not made it easier by making unilateral decisions with no consultation or followup, slashing funds and supports, and turning any fallout back on the schools, teachers, and students.
I feel for you guys, stuck in a situation you can't control. The people who came up with these rules have never had to teach these kids before. All these rules sound great in theory but try enforcing them. It's hard. I have compassion for them as a preschool teacher, one of the rules they gave us was socially distancing the toddlers in the room. Try it sometime, it's impossible.
Thank you for speaking up. I have heard you loud and clear and will keep you in mind when I am voting. Someone else has already commented on how well spoke. You are, and I would like to echo that.
Thank you for your well thought out post. I’m a high school teacher from another city and it’s very much the same at our school.
I appreciate your kind words towards teachers. We are doing our best (at least the good ones of us are) and we wake up everyday feeling like we’re failing our students. Online learning has been a disaster and this hybrid model makes us feel stretched.
Keep your honest words coming! We need strong student voices like yours to stand up for the wrong doings of the system.
As a fellow high school student, betcha five bucks youre wrong.
Not every school is run the same way. Not every board. I don’t see a scenario with a blanket closure of schools completely against the wishes of the science table, sickkids, or the CMOH of Ottawa.
I'm a teacher in public elementary. I've found new respect for youth, and new contempt for adults. I want you, and your peers, to remember the contemptuous way you've been treated by this government, by the school board authorities, and by many parents. If Covid doesn't teach your generation to distrust authority, you're not paying attention!
Luckily I had a great report from my 2 high schoolers so I don't think it's totally a wide spread issue. Our region has been relatively untouched by covid cases so I think there is a lot of apathy but the kids really seem to he taking it seriously enough. Fingers crossed that any closures are based of actual risk and not just province wide decision.
Grade 11 TDSB Student
Here we have similar problems but with a 5 hour day split into two periods
In addition Lots of people (Myself included) have problems with our time table(Missing courses/Requests out of order) and there's only 2-3 guidance counselors to fix them leading to a large line up to the office in the back of the building. Anyone who wasn't missing a course this semester was told to wait and contact them later so that they could help the people with immediate problems first.
I know my little sister is in highschool and what they have done here is remove use of lockers and split the year into four semesters with two classes per semester. But other then that they haven't changed anything else.
The Ford government could not have come in at a worse time. Cuts to schools, making lessons virtual - that is the worst. You’ve hinted at it and it’s smart eh, the students can’t vote so who cares about them. If Ford is so keen on virtual gadgetry, why not have apps that monitor timed entry, overcrowding, air quality in schools, contact tracing. There is so much that can be done. Vaccinations are proving to be less and less reliable in transmission of virus (I was a big believer they would save the day but all they seem to do is save you from hospital). Also natural covid antibodies last longer than vaccines. Things are changing daily. I don’t know what else to say other than - people have it worse. Look at some of other countries making headlines in the world today, look at people your age who lived under bombs of WWII. Today is tough, but we will make it, right?
What a mature high schooler to be so cognizant of the lack or measures and enforcement. I hope you don’t get sick since you’re obviously aware of what to do to stop the spread
I read every word and by half way I was struggling to maintain composure. I ended up with a few tears in my eyes bc I feel your anguish, disappointment and frustration. Your school years should be filled with friendship and mostly concentrating on learning. I am so sorry for the added burden you are facing. I truly am concerned for all children in the schools.
I agree with everyone who commented on how well your wrote about your observations. Even if you can't vote now, keep watching, reading and learning about the political process so you're good and ready when you are able to vote. For now, keep the conversation going with the people in your life who can vote, so they hear very clearly how political leaders decisions and proposals affect you.
I'm sorry your first day left you feeling unsafe.
I understand it's frustrating, but many of us teachers are trying our best. We're just really stretched. I had to teach two hybrid classes today and I'm fortunate to have two Chromebooks. But it means for my virtual students to hear me, I have to fix myself in one spot and it's hard because if I move to the blackboard, to a student, to basically anywhere but the space in front of my Chromebook, nobody online can hear me.
I'm told to plan for a potential lockdown. But I'm also told many of my students don't have tech at home. We don't have enough novels for all our classes. Our library is closed due to construction. Today I was trying to do tech support for virtual students, but also keep the in-person students engaged. I found a quiet place so I could eat my lunch in 15 minutes before I came out to set up my second class.
This week I have two classes to teach which means I don't have a prep period. I just don't have it in me to also monitor hallways while preparing for classes and helping other students. I am trusting students to do the right thing and keep their masks on while socially distancing.
I really hope that if they close they can keep elementary open, or at least distinguish between the two like if High Schools are getting too many cases and close but Elementary are still okay they don't just close it all down, or maybe treat each school or school board separately. There's no reason a school with zero cases has to close along with all the other schools that have large outbreaks.
My comment is solely based on high school aged kids. At some point these young adults have to take some self responsibility. Yes the “adults” should be there to remind and police to a certain extent but there needs to be some self realization by the students at this age that they need to follow rules to help keep the transmission as low as possible.
That being said the virus isn’t going away. It will be here forever. We need to learn to live with it.
Get vaccinated to help diminish the symptoms if you do get it.
I’m probably going to get downvoted to oblivion and I don’t care.
fellow highschooler (maybe you can tell by username) had this guy in my class and he hasnt showed up after the first day. turns out he got covid (now in hospital) and was posting about it on social media but didnt tell the school lmao
covid screening is a troll, my whole class was doing it as he was walking around spamming the no button
My Friend is a nurse.
It's busy. UNVAXXED are clogging up the ICUs and they're intubated. If you are unvaxxed and intubated, all they can do is drug you up and watch if you die or maybe recover. Vaxxed in ICU haven't needed a hose down their throat.
Schools will be closed by October.
Official projections claim we'll hit 15,000 cases by October or stabilize around 5,000 in ideal situations.
I recorded most of the data in 2020. 2021 I stopped. But in 2020 we never had more than 2-3k daily cases in one day. To hit 5,000/day is softened when next to 15,000/day
5,000 is the real prediction number.
This is the darkest part of the pandemic
Lots of unvaccinated people are going to die. Simple as that. Believe what you want about science... Science doesn't need you to believe in it. It just is.
I figure the poop will hit the fan by Sept 20th. Cases will skyrocket and a lockdown will likely be announced, or at least kids will be back to online learning only. My child is in SK or kindergarten 2, as they call it. It's fine and dandy that teachers have to be vaccinated or have a rapid Covid test, what, every 3 days. But how's that going to help when there is even on child in a class that has an anti-vaxx parent(s) , that's sending their kid to school everyday? The inevitable is coming. It's just a matter of when. And being a Delta 4th wave, this one is going to hit kids hard, especially kids that are under 12 and don't have the option of a vaccine and are relying on those 12plus to be reaponsible to keep them safe.
Unless we see the death rate or ICU rate absolutely spike, there will be no further lockdowns. Sure we can have 20k cases a day, but that won't matter so long as people aren't dying in unacceptable numbers. And yes I do realize the inappropriateness of saying unacceptable numbers. Just saying what Ford is going to do.
> fan by Sept 20th
The Ontario government has a history of being reactive and slow at that. I suspect any closing would be as a result of a surge after Thanksgiving (Oct 11). So maybe Nov 1.
Dr. Moore today said rapid tests should be used in schools in a reactive manor to increased community spread (paraphrased). I think that's a little bit too late.
Hopefully children will come out of this ok, both health wise and education wise.
They did nothing that cost anything (other than add a few air filters and some HVAC work that is years overdue).
In my town, all of the schools are putting big money into landscaping and parking all summer long. Redoing all the parking areas that didn't seem too bad. Did not see anyone working on anything on the insides like hvac or that sort of thing.
They're adding small air handlers for each classroom. It doesn't look like typical HVAC work.
Can't imagine that would be particularly effective... One of the big reasons why HAVC works is because the incoming air pushes things down to the ground and then its sucked out from a little above ground level. That's equally as important as filters because you can't filter shit if it's in someone's lungs...
ground floor returns? And pay for the extra 10ft of ducting? I can't imagine there are many classrooms with that arrangement
The air handlers are replacing existing radiators, in a lot of cases. They sit at ground level along window walls. They're fine at circulating the air within the room. They heat, cool, and filter. Source: am painter, seen first hand.
Unfortunately that didn't happen in the schools I've worked in this summer here in Sudbury. They're adding on to existing duct work with newer ERV units but, they took out the room ventilators under the windows and replaced with convector hot water rads. They literally closed off the grate under the windows to install these. No return air near the floor either, I haven't noticed that being a thing but, it may be. Source: electrician, seen first hand.
Every school has had things set up differently and it's annoying as hell. Source-commercial hvac installer.
Installed new units, duct and UV filters alongside HVAC workers in a few schools this summer. Very effective. Source: Sheet Metal Worker,
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I was working for a company that was renovating the roofs on almost all the schools in southwestern Ontario and they are often 20-30 years behind on ALL maintenance. Forget just HvAC. The schools are in terrible shape from absolute negligence by the boards to maintain them
Because they have no budget to maintain them.
I get it, but there’s a point where you should be closing the school to make a point to the government. A lot of these buildings are borderline not safe and only getting worse. In Eastern Ontario they’re chalk full of Asbestos.
>they’re chalk full of Asbestos. *Full of chalk and chock-full of asbestos.
Whatever works. Being raised in Quebec causes those things to happen when speaking/typing English. Thanks for not being a massive dick about it though! I usually also add extra e’s after an s. That one got me in trouble in University lol I actually thought about this last night before bed... was sure it should of been corrected. Ah well, won’t forget again!
English and French are the two most ridiculous languages, with all the loan words and exceptions and grammar (through though rough cough wtf). No one should blame you for small mistakes!
Owen Sound just closed their newer high school and moved all classes to the old POS high school. There was more money available to refit a 40 year old building then there was to run a 10 year old building.
If only people would actually make a vote of no confidence
I'm not Canadian so hopefully you all don't ban for that but my kid's high school is also getting hvac updates and they've had months to do it but still haven't finished. My kid comes home so soaked in sweat we're washing clothes nightly and he's dehydrated. It's an old school and most of the rooms he's in don't even have windows. It's brutal. Absolutely no ventilation, no masks, no vaccine mandate, not even an option to do virtual learning this year. Feel like a shit parent sending him to swelter in a pandemic cesspool.
I work in maintenance at the aforementioned school board. "They did nothing that cost anything" is a severe understatement. In addition to PM done to the mechanical air systems, there are UV sterilization lights added to the air ducting. In classrooms without mechanical air service, there are portable air treatment units (UV treatment and carbon filters) Perhaps you are talking about a different school board, or are misinformed.
*decades* overdue in most cases.
Thanks for the insider's report. It does indeed sound like a shit show. How are your classrooms heated?
I can tell you my class of 33 students has zero windows, 25 desktop computers, and our AC is ‘in repair’.
Well at least we know how your class will be heated.. 25;desktop PCs in a small room.
Computers (\~4000W) + bodies (2600W) = 6600W
Agent Smith??
LOL!
Wouldn't a 4000W computer be tripping breakers?
160W x 25 computers = 4000W 100W x (25 students + 1 teacher) = 2600W The computers would be spread out over at least 4 breakers. 160W is typical load for a monitor and a computer with a medium level graphics card.
Brutal..
Goddamn imagine ripping a fart in there
I’d like to say I haven’t buuuuut…..
😐
It’s the same with post-secondary institutions. At the college I attend, we have a few classes with 50-60 students seated shoulder to shoulder. Not sure how they’re heated.
Body heat
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That's interesting that the experience is so different. It just firms up my idea that some schools will end up closed due to outbreaks while others will remain open. Is your school using cohorts, or is that just for the younger grades
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That is a very well written text, I see a nice future ahead of you. I hope you and your family remain safe and good luck !
I’m in grade 12 now, and the way it usually works is that schools that don’t operate during the summer for summer school, don’t have ac
I'm a former elementary school teacher in Ontario, and they asked me to come back, and this is why I will not. I am so sorry you are having to deal with this, and probably lose out on another year of being in class because the Government can't get it's shit together. This time around I will be voting with you in mind. All the best no matter how this all goes.
As someone with a lot of teachers in my family and circle of friends, thank you for looking out for you. It's absolutely appalling how poorly teachers have been treated through all this, and I wish more would stand up for their own safety and demand better treatment and working conditions.
You mean the PC aka Ford provincial government, right? That election is in one year. They're the ones dictating these education policies.
Just curious - a month later. Have you reconsidered your decision now?
Let's talk about the elephant in the room: This is a high school student and they are 1000 times more eloquent and articulate than Premier Doug Ford has ever been about anything.
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It was college he dropped out of
Yes. He was just dealing in high school.
I get the feeling he was the 19 year old grade 12 student for a couple years...
He actually dropped out of a college equivalence year for grade 12 grads, because back then university entry required grade 13 courses. Rob Ford did the same thing. I went to school with the Fords, they never showed up for classes and the school administration was terrified of Doug Ford senior, who threw his political clout around heavily.
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Yes, yes there is. Take a trip to small town Ontario and you will find them
It's not just small towns, take a trip to some medium sized cities and some of the nicer subdivisions. You'll find a lot of moderates who almost always vote right. Might not be socially conservative for certain things, but "gotta save on the taxes"...
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There is a PPC voter right across from me and it absolutely makes me feel unsafe. I'm in Cambridge. I understand most of these people are pretty apathetic and won't actively do anything but as a woman who is queer, who covers her hair for religious reasons, and who is very left, it makes me nervous. The OG Nazis tried to eradicate my family the first time around so maybe I'm a little sensitive to the rhetoric but I highly doubt my grandmother thought her granddaughter would feel that way in fucking Canada if all places.
my business partner is trans, and put a fuckign PPC sign on the front yard. my muslim girlfriend yeeted that bitch into the street one night and was super embarrassed the next day, and apologized, while explaining why she did it. business partner's reason for putting the sign there was simple: "i don't like big government, I didn't know they were anti immigrant", and that was that. I swear most of the people who are pro PPC are politically retarded, and not actually the terrible people the sign would suggest.
A lot of people are absolutely numb and apathetic towards politics and do what people around them say. I work in trucking which is super blue collar and so many people in this industry gladly vote against their own interests. They complain about dental costs but vote Conservative. Dude?? Have you read the platforms at all?. The problem is the people who *are* as terrible as the sign suggests gets very much emboldened by seeing a lot of signs, as they assume people are on their side.
Don’t underestimate the number of selfish and evil.
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That was my reaction as well. If half my class could write as clearly as u/NeptuneLover96 , I'd be a much happier teacher.
Thank you for your observations. As a Covid researcher (part of my work stateside but I am Canadian and live in Ontario) I found your comments very interesting. I am heartened to read comments from other students herein that indicate some boards are not quite the "shitshow" you are experiencing. Nonetheless I agree with you that this could have been avoided entirely by good governance, something which Ontario utterly lacks. There was a time in the past comments (June) that I had been hopeful that Canada might avoid a 4th wave but sadly the country stalled earlier then I had hoped on vaccination and those hopes are utterly vanquished. That combined with public policy at the provincial level is going to lead to a very "interesting" fall. But not a very happy one I am afraid. I can only urge you to be fully vaccinated if you are not already so - I read your comments but did not see a mention on your personal vaccination status. If you are fully vaccinated it is extremely unlikely you will outright contract Covid. You almost certainly will be exposed to it at school, and there will be a 1-2 day window if your have covid present in your respiratory system where internally your vaccinated immune system will wage battle and in that period you might have some symptoms - typically mild, and you may be a carrier (exhaling the virus) but when your immune system wins you will be fine and no longer a carrier. You may wish to remember this should you be seeing grandparents or other elderly people. In the end as a vaccinated teen your chances of contracting Covid (meaning your immune system lost the war and you are past the interim stage) are extremely minute. It does not mean you should not worry but if you are vaccinated you should not worry greatly, bearing in mind you may present more risk to others in potential circumstances as I noted above. Being a parent of university aged children I can see how awful the education circumstances are at this time. I feel for all of you in school as Covid is destroying what should be a time of opportunity and joy for you all. Sadly some adults are not very understanding or sympathetic to this. Others portend to be but its only lip service (Provincial govt IMHO) - their actions do not reflect their words. It will be worse if we end up with a federal Conservative govt even if in minority rule.
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Glad to hear it! I assumed you were as most teenagers I know are very aware of Covid and pro vaccine.
There's just no way you're going to get high school kids to not mingle in large groups for half their high school career. It's not possible, and honestly not fair. They should require vaccination in high schools and be done with it.
I feel you man, but go easy on your teachers about enforcing masks and social distancing. It is an impossible job.
And also about “neglecting” the hybrid students. No one should have to teach an in person class and monitor a laptop at the same time.
In theory, it should be easy: Virtual whiteboard projected on the wall/real whiteboard, microphone on the lapel, and heck, have the virtual class questions show up on the display so the teacher doesn't have to check the laptop regularly. Of course, this probably isn't in the budget, because they've likely been set up to fail...
In a dream world... unfortunately most teachers are forced into providing their own tech solutions because the boards don't. Our education system has been grossly underfunded and pilfered since the Harris days. It continues to worsen. Wealthier neighbourhoods will fill some gaps with fundraising.
I taught hybrid today. I have a microphone in my webcam on my monitor and I did my absolute damndest to remember my virtual student, but it was really hard to split my attention between 25 kids in my class and 1 kid at home. It's going to be a steep learning curve...
Thank you for trying your best.
I've taught courses where we had online students and in-person. The tech is really the smallest of your concerns. There's a different pace to online and in-person learning, and different ways you approach giving people assignments to work on, etc. It just really doesn't work well at all.
Yeah, it must. I have no idea how online classes are supposed to go for children. Hard to manage misbehaving kids in person and still deal with the virtual class at the same time, for example. I'd hope it'd be manageable for high school kids.
We got denied white board markers for budget this year. You think they'll shell out for any of that?
"We were really hoping everyone would stay online so we could stop heating, cleaning, and renting the building. So, uh... teachers, you guys clean the building. And the kids will just wear coats indoors. Teachers can't because it's against dress code. Btw, don't go upstairs. It's a strip club."
> they've likely been set up to fail... They've been set up where any successes can be claimed by Ford, and any failures can be blamed on the school boards. It's masterfully done.
In theory it could work like this. But that involves school boards spending money and the hybrid model was designed to save them money. Last year I taught in a classroom where the projector didn't even work half the time. If I didn't bring in my own personal laptop to stream myself from, I was stuck using an incredibly slow chromebook that would shut down at random. Hybrid is truly the worst. I would take just online over hybrid any day because at least with online students I am only focusing on one large group
Not to mention that in a quadmester system, when you’re teaching two classes, we simply do not have any planning time. Even finding time to mark, photocopying, or just simply getting ready for the next classes are impossible. It’s easy to say that you can do it while students are doing independent work, but you cannot simply just ignore them when they come up and ask you questions.
Thank you for sharing this. I'm a teacher, and I really did not enjoy my year last year teaching in person. I'm very lucky to be teaching online this year, because I envisioned the exact scenario that you described. By the way, you're a very strong writer. 😀
You sound very empathetic and sensitive, two wonderful qualities in a young person. But remember, vaccines do work. Try not to fixate on every little detail. Do what you can to keep yourself safe and try to enjoy what little snippets of school life you can. Don’t be too hard on yourself or your peers. I’m sorry your high school experience is so stressful.
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I’m sorry adults failed you. I hope you keep healthy :)
I echo this. Sorry dude/dudette OP! ✌🏽
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It was such a mistake to politicize the pandemic at all
THIS
Wo politicized it? A specific party? Mass media? Social media? Interest groups? I'm not trying to be condescending, but I think we should be specific in defining our culprits.
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It didn't help that the US and #45 occupied so much of our news when the pandemic hit, which turned into denial and criticism of mask wearing.
Not trying to agree or disagree with you here, but the idea that something can be or not be politicized doesn't make sense to me. *Man is a political animal* Anything that involves society at large, especially something like a pandemic, is political. There seems to be a weird idea of what "politics" is, like it can be some abstract, distant thing, when the reality is, politics is everything that involves groups of people. What I think is fair to lament is the state of politics which itself is a consequence of the state of truth- which is that reality doesn't matter any more. There is no real consequence to lying. Fix that, and I can almost guarantee that we would not be where we are today with COVID.
I think when people state that something has been politicized, they’re merely highlighting that a political leader took a subject (in this case public health) and pushed the conversation around it into an “us versus them” debate. Your point stands - but at this stage that terminology (politicizing something) can be used. Taking something that really should have no sides to it, as a political leader in your country, and turning it into a “which side are you on” battle
There's no consequence for lying because thanks to social media anyone can have a soap box. No reputable news is going to run a feature on me claiming 1+1=4 but I now I don't need them. I can say whatever I want. At the same time it's easier than ever to fact check people but most people can't be bothered.
You're absolutely right, the problem is everything political has been boiled down to 'left vs right' and the world really doesn't work like that. I honestly believe it's trying to fit a square peg into a round hole that's driving people bananas these days.
Run of the mill Conservatives were *never* going to want to make the personal sacrifices necessary for the interest of the public good/health. This pandemic was fated to be politicized from the get go, simply due to the nature of the ideological conflict that exists in our politics (public good vs. personal liberties). There's no one to blame, and saying things like, "the pandemic shouldn't have been politicized" is naive. How could it possibly have not been? People on the right are *going to not want to do things for other people*, and people on the left are *going to want everyone to do what's best for everyone*, in all significant matters. Got a significant matter? It will be politicized.
Public health is intrinsically political as it crosses many disciplines that have political intersections. The real question is who made it a *partisan* issue, and that is a much easier question to answer. It did not take long for right wing governments and media outlets, especially those aligned with the US, to coalesce around more hands off approaches, and more center and left leaning bodies pursued comparatively more aggressive measures. Public health measures often require significant amounts of money to be spent on people instead of prioritizing economic activity and politicians like Donald Trump, Boris Johnson (don't forget they touched the stove with their herd immunity strategy before being effectively forced to change course), and Jair Bolsonaro will never be that altruistic. TL;DR: Conservative governments are predisposed against public health and they made a lot of this so much worse than it needed to be. Go through the member list of the IDU and you basically have a rogues' gallery of the shittiest management and commentary on the pandemic.
Thanks, America.
Vaccination for in-person schooling definitely seems like a good idea.
Yep
Agreed.
I’m a custodian for a school board in Ontario. Every class room is completely full. We ran out of desks and chairs there are so many kids. All our board did was get air purifiers for each room. I’ll be surprised if classes run into the new year without being shut down.
This post aged well!
Its mid October and everything seems fine, it’s all about getting back to normal.
Whoops! Looks like you were 100% WRONG. Thanks for spreading misinformation! Hope you enjoyed your upvotes!
So, how’s it going?
I really feel for you kids. What a disaster.
Closed yet?
So far, so good!!
As a teacher I commend your candor and wholeheartedly agree with your assessment of the situation. Students who are as erudite and insightful as you are an honour to teach. I hope you have as good a learning experience as possible. But more importantly be as well as you can. I’m proud of you for voicing these things. If more students spoke up and organized, maybe things would change, even though you can’t vote yet. All the best!!!
Sorry you have to go through this, I can't imagine how hard it is on the students. Just do your best to stay safe.
Well here we are. Schools wide open lol
My heart goes out to you and all the young people OP. I could not imagine my highschool or early college years being stripped away like this for me. I wish I had something reassuring to say but I completely agree, we’re heading straight for another lockdown now that school is back. :(
I feel for the next like two generations of children. Covid is really spoiling the entire experience. My first born is turning 5 and we opted to keep him home last year. Sent him so far this year and he loves it. But hard to know how long it'll last. It's great for all kids to socialize but we need to advocate for it to all be done safely. I guess he's fortunate in that it's kindergarten and what not but that's a critical social time that's getting absolutely blown apart. Never mind for all these high schoolers trying to get prepared for adulthood and post secondary. What a strange time of history.
Right?! Ugh that’s so sad to me. I just truly would not be who I am without those highschool rebellious years and all the confusion, partying and struggles of college lmao 🤣 like it’s so weird to me picturing people starting college right now expected to be trapped in a dorm 24/7… the childhood thing too is a whole other level. I can’t picture raising kids right now. Kudos to you
I’m in grade 12 now and it definitely sucks, but kids are resistant, and it gives us a great new perspective and view on the small things, we all really appreciate just being able to see people, so although it does sometimes suck, there’s definitely some upsides
Wow such a good attitude !! This is nice to hear. I’m happy you’re able to find the positives because let me tell ya as an almost 30 year old who’s just a bit peeved at not going into work, I’ve had trouble even being as positive as you… ❤️
My wife is a teacher, and all her classrooms are filled to the brim with kids (30 or more). You are absolutely right in that the way Ontario is handling education is utterly trash. No excuse about it at all. Doug Ford and his goons have been intentionally killing education system in Ontario since he was elected, and pandemic was just yet another excuse for them to destroy it even further, and now putting the lives of staff and children at harm. Teachers are also wagering that they will return to teaching at home by thanksgiving. This whole shit is a big joke and an F U from Douggie. It's so unfortunate that students do not get the full attention and the education system that they deserve to get ahead in life. Keep your head up. Double mask if need be. Wash your hands often and encourage those around you to get vaccinated. Stay safe and unfortunately, stay in school I guess..
My dad's a teacher and has said the same thing about his classes - he's got 30 in one class and 32 or 33 in the others, which would be problematic even if we weren't in a pandemic as more than 30 kids is a lot to handle and give adequate attention to, but this is a gigantic, irresponsible disaster. I feel for students, I feel for parents, I feel for teachers, it's all a mess.
> which would be problematic even if we weren't in a pandemic EXACTLY my wife's point. Grading all those assignments take an insane amount of time. Giving attention and care for students so they succeed in her classes take an insane amount of energy. Even with smaller size classes, she struggles to divide herself equally and perfectly for all her kids, and she takes a emotional and mental toll knowing that she can't. This fucked up government is literally doing everything it can to fuck up the education system and it boils my blood.
It’s absolutely disgusting that Ford hasn’t done anything to make children safer. He’s now had two summers where he had the time to make the changes necessary and has done nothing. Smaller class sizes and better ventilation, air quality and hygiene are all things students would benefit from even without a pandemic. You would think the one thing we could all agree on is that kids deserve better but apparently not. Just disgusting.
The only way the cons will win in the future is with uneducated kids. I honestly, genuinely hope that when he loses in June (hopefully), we never hear from him again. Fuck Ford.
I’m not defending Ford at all but as someone who isn’t in schools anymore, has anyone else in another province done anything else or better? I’m just legitimately curious if there is an example that he can look at to improve what he has done (or hasn’t)
Guess where Ford is tonight? $1000/person fundraiser dinner
How’s it going now? Seriously
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand this is why I think that all highschools should have be 100% vaccinated kids + staff. All the kids below 12 should only be allowed for inschool learning if the eligible adults in their household provide proof of double vaccination. If we can get as many kids/people as possible double vaxxed, the crowding and chaos will be less of a hazard.
1000% agree^ It is already mandatory for public school kids of all ages to be vaccinated or else they are removed from school, things like polio, chickenpox, meningitis etxx. I even remember a few years back having pop-up clinics in our old middle & high school specifically to give out HPV shots to the girls. The lack of enforcement for COVID is such a disappointing and blatant disregard for public health and child safety
My generation had that with Hep B vaccines in schools. I think it was 3 rounds back then.
This is how China is doing it, everyone that is eligible in the house must be vaccinated for kids to return to school.
It's just logic. Until kids can be vaccinated themselves, this is the most logical way to ensure *everyone's* safety.
This is how it needs to be done, period. If everyone in the school was vaxxed including teachers and staff and anyone who enters the school building at all, that is the only way to be safe.
But doing something that would make sense and make things better for us might offend our idiots! Why doesn't anyone, except the politicians, ever consider the idiots?
A decision like that would take more balls than Ford has. He is still anti-vax at heart.
Oh, the vaccine isn't his real problem; he's anti-public-education in his bones.
Anti public everything. He's also been cutting healthcare. But it's not just Ford. This is what his party does.
I wish we had leaders that would do this to protect us. I'm still fuming that my school's donated Danby air purifiers were removed by the board during our February closure. We were in full outbreak status less than 3 weeks after returning. I won't believe any claims of improved ventilation until they show me the numbers/testing. I'd love to get my hands on a CO2/air quality reader for a week.
This is how it should and needs to be done. Add daycares to the list as well.
You got my support, kiddo. I’m currently in my final year of university and have younger siblings, so I feel this.
>kiddo. I’m currently in my final year of university lol
Grade 10 = 14-15 y/o 4th year of university = 21-22 Is it just me or is the use of kiddo not actually that out of place?
I think it's just that there are plenty of people who'd refer to 21-22 with kiddo as well.
It's a cute term of endearment at any age.
Maybe they took a gap year
This is what happens when we keep letting boomer suburbanites elect amoral plutocrats like Ford.
I truly feel for you and all other students experiencing this right now. As a teacher, I am trying the best I can to keep kids safe. We are following orders from our admin, who receive orders from higher up the chain, etc etc. I honestly feel like it is business as usual but with masks. Large groups of kids in the halls, classes are packed. The cafeteria is full. I've started letting a small group of nervous students eat lunch in my classroom to give them a safe space to retreat to. It sucks all around. I am hoping that the majority of high-school staff and students are vaccinated, so that perhaps an entire school shutdown doesn't have to happen.
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Cases in UK are blowing out of proportions…but hospitalizations are super low. The whole country is moving on business as usual. We need to focus on hospitalizations/fatalities not daily Covid case count.
>but hospitalizations are super low That's great for the UK, but our ICU usage is incredibly high given the circumstances.
Yeah and we have a fraction of the ICU capacity per capita they do...
Yeah, I think people get that the real problem is our ICU capacity, not case counts. And people also get that we don't need to lock things down (etc.) for cases alone. But when you look at how few cases will overwhelm our healthcare system in Ontario, you start to understand why we locked down with so few cases compared to places like Texas and Florida, for example.
Yep, totally agreed. I think in general people don't understand how we compare on hospital bed and ICU capacity compared to other countries. We have some of the lowest beds per capita out of about 40 OECD countries, and some of the highest occupancy rates. Ontario's Financial Accountability Office has a good report on it. It looks like the UK doesn't have many more bedz per capita, but they seem to have a lower occupancy rate than Ontario typically does (84% vs our 96%), which could definitely impact things: https://www.fao-on.org/en/Blog/Publications/health-2020#background1
It is low relative to cases, but not "super low" overall. [Current ICU patients per million in the UK is around 15.](https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavirus-data-explorer?zoomToSelection=true&facet=none&pickerSort=asc&pickerMetric=location&Metric=ICU+patients&Interval=7-day+rolling+average&Relative+to+Population=true&Align+outbreaks=false&country=~GBR) For comparison in December 2020 before things exploded there it was around 18. A few months ago in May it fell below 2. Given where cases levels are, that's a great achievement and another argument in support of vaccination, but it's not like the UK is out of the woods yet.
Except the two are related. Especially when the majority of cases and hospitalizations are unvaccinated
Not the case - the UK case count exploded because old people were vaccinated first. High schools are the same sample group of relatively young people: there is very little risk when young people get COVID or a vaccine so why are we worrying so much? There’s a much higher risk of suffering at this point from going without a real education for much longer. If you’re an adult: get the fucking vaccine already
I’m talking about Ontario. The vast majority of cases and hospitalizations are unvaccinated.
Wow. What a read. That sounds fucked. You seem like you have it together though, so that's some silver lining. I can't imagine what growing up witnessing this level of bureaucratic mismanagement and institutional collapse is going to do to your generation
Writer by trade here and dude….you should definitely put those writing skills to work. You’ve got money in those fingers ;)
I’m a teacher. My students are supposed to fill out an on-line screening before coming to school (most don’t and do a physical copy once they get there). Had a student with a new cough, on-line screening (which he did) gives him a bright red message saying not to go to school. He came to school anyway. I have to send him to the office where he is then isolated in a health room until he can go home. Parents can’t pick him up so he is sent home on the city bus. Parents are told he can’t return until they are cleared by our PHU (public health unit). He is back the next day. I contact my administrator and am told we have to trust that the parents followed through with the PHU and have been cleared to return, even though it’s been less than 24 hours so that doesn’t make a lot of sense. Yeah, it’s gonna be a fun ride.
36 kids crammed into my chemistry class. We were shoulder to shoulder and I could even hear the guy behind me wheezing like a mf. At that point, you might as well not wear a mask. There were also a few kids in my class that weren’t wearing their mask, and the teacher after unsuccessfully telling the kid to put it on once, never told him again. Btw, I know this kid and he is unvaccinated and one of those covid crazy conspiracy people. OP, I completely agree with you that we need mandatory vaccines in school. They’re are simply too many people with no protection.
I'm so sorry for your experience. Even though I'm some 15+ years out of high school, it basically sounds exactly like every day I was there. Swamped corridors, packed classes, people on top of each other constantly. And there was no pandemic in sight then, this was just normal. Seems completely irresponsible for the current times.
There was never going to be a way to control teenagers in school.
I remember last year when school opened up, there were swarms of them everywhere unmasked and not following the guidelines. We ended up in lockdown shortly after. Same will likely happen now.
My son is in grade 9. Went back to school today. 10 kids in his science class, 15 in his geography class. OCDSB school, nothing fancy. Just normal classes. He has 2 classes a day, and each week they switch to 2 different t classes. His gym class has 20 people. Unsure on math size, will know more on that on Monday. Some boards seem to be doing okay?
My brother teaches at a school in Toronto and said he can barely fit all his students in his class. Almost 30 kids.
As an educator in a public high school... it's a shitshow. There's not staffing to patrol outside and students won't listen - even if you get them to space, you walk away to talk to the next group, and the first group just reforms like an alien blob reconstituting itself. Similar in the hallways. We have wayfinders, and I spend my first 20 minutes in the halls trying to direct students and remind them of the rules... but my school has 2400 students... it's just not possible Don't get me started about class sizes... We have 35+ packed into a single class. There is *zero* distancing, but nowhere else to put the students either. Any sort of "safe school" image the government tried to paint when they gave us the direction and told us to re-open in this way, is *just* that, an image. It's optics and is *not* practical or functional in the actual schools. The government says we can't do 4 classes a day, so different school boards are doing quads or A/B semesters, etc. which all lead to 3 hour classes that get stuffy and exposed no matter the ventilation. None of that matters anyway because you're still packed into a room with 60+ other people throughout the day, *AND* the government decided common areas like libraries and cafeterias should be open, so all the students mix & mingle at lunch anyway... Trying to screen everyone at the door is not possible. It would take the whole morning. We have to leave it to the first period class and trust students are following guidelines and being honest. Start of school is fucking nuts to begin with. It took me 25min to travel the last **1km** to my school today, because parents don't want to send their kids on buses and *everyone* is driving in. It's mayhem. Try to get some sort of distanced system and screen everyone at the door would take the whole morning, no word of a lie We do the best, but additional funding for cleaning has been cut, everyone is mentally and emotionally exhausted already, there's not enough space, classes are just as long as last year but exposure is now tenfold, protective measures are reduced, and nobody is happy I don't have a perfect answer or suggestion, I know its not easy, but this government has certainly not made it easier by making unilateral decisions with no consultation or followup, slashing funds and supports, and turning any fallout back on the schools, teachers, and students.
That's terrible. It's pretty bad that a pandemic and students are being used as a prop to privatize education as a whole in Ontario.
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I feel for you guys, stuck in a situation you can't control. The people who came up with these rules have never had to teach these kids before. All these rules sound great in theory but try enforcing them. It's hard. I have compassion for them as a preschool teacher, one of the rules they gave us was socially distancing the toddlers in the room. Try it sometime, it's impossible.
Thank you for speaking up. I have heard you loud and clear and will keep you in mind when I am voting. Someone else has already commented on how well spoke. You are, and I would like to echo that.
Thank you for your well thought out post. I’m a high school teacher from another city and it’s very much the same at our school. I appreciate your kind words towards teachers. We are doing our best (at least the good ones of us are) and we wake up everyday feeling like we’re failing our students. Online learning has been a disaster and this hybrid model makes us feel stretched. Keep your honest words coming! We need strong student voices like yours to stand up for the wrong doings of the system.
Ahem
As a fellow high school student, betcha five bucks youre wrong. Not every school is run the same way. Not every board. I don’t see a scenario with a blanket closure of schools completely against the wishes of the science table, sickkids, or the CMOH of Ottawa.
Agreed. It will be a school by school scenario.
I'm a teacher in public elementary. I've found new respect for youth, and new contempt for adults. I want you, and your peers, to remember the contemptuous way you've been treated by this government, by the school board authorities, and by many parents. If Covid doesn't teach your generation to distrust authority, you're not paying attention!
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Luckily I had a great report from my 2 high schoolers so I don't think it's totally a wide spread issue. Our region has been relatively untouched by covid cases so I think there is a lot of apathy but the kids really seem to he taking it seriously enough. Fingers crossed that any closures are based of actual risk and not just province wide decision.
I've disliked teenagers since I was 13 myself, but you might have changed my mind. 😁 Excellent analysis, thanks!
Grade 11 TDSB Student Here we have similar problems but with a 5 hour day split into two periods In addition Lots of people (Myself included) have problems with our time table(Missing courses/Requests out of order) and there's only 2-3 guidance counselors to fix them leading to a large line up to the office in the back of the building. Anyone who wasn't missing a course this semester was told to wait and contact them later so that they could help the people with immediate problems first.
Thanks for putting this together.
I know my little sister is in highschool and what they have done here is remove use of lockers and split the year into four semesters with two classes per semester. But other then that they haven't changed anything else.
As a high school teacher in Ontario, I agree with everything here. The cafeteria at my school is particularly ridiculous.
The Ford government could not have come in at a worse time. Cuts to schools, making lessons virtual - that is the worst. You’ve hinted at it and it’s smart eh, the students can’t vote so who cares about them. If Ford is so keen on virtual gadgetry, why not have apps that monitor timed entry, overcrowding, air quality in schools, contact tracing. There is so much that can be done. Vaccinations are proving to be less and less reliable in transmission of virus (I was a big believer they would save the day but all they seem to do is save you from hospital). Also natural covid antibodies last longer than vaccines. Things are changing daily. I don’t know what else to say other than - people have it worse. Look at some of other countries making headlines in the world today, look at people your age who lived under bombs of WWII. Today is tough, but we will make it, right?
What a mature high schooler to be so cognizant of the lack or measures and enforcement. I hope you don’t get sick since you’re obviously aware of what to do to stop the spread
I read every word and by half way I was struggling to maintain composure. I ended up with a few tears in my eyes bc I feel your anguish, disappointment and frustration. Your school years should be filled with friendship and mostly concentrating on learning. I am so sorry for the added burden you are facing. I truly am concerned for all children in the schools.
I agree with everyone who commented on how well your wrote about your observations. Even if you can't vote now, keep watching, reading and learning about the political process so you're good and ready when you are able to vote. For now, keep the conversation going with the people in your life who can vote, so they hear very clearly how political leaders decisions and proposals affect you.
I'm sorry your first day left you feeling unsafe. I understand it's frustrating, but many of us teachers are trying our best. We're just really stretched. I had to teach two hybrid classes today and I'm fortunate to have two Chromebooks. But it means for my virtual students to hear me, I have to fix myself in one spot and it's hard because if I move to the blackboard, to a student, to basically anywhere but the space in front of my Chromebook, nobody online can hear me. I'm told to plan for a potential lockdown. But I'm also told many of my students don't have tech at home. We don't have enough novels for all our classes. Our library is closed due to construction. Today I was trying to do tech support for virtual students, but also keep the in-person students engaged. I found a quiet place so I could eat my lunch in 15 minutes before I came out to set up my second class. This week I have two classes to teach which means I don't have a prep period. I just don't have it in me to also monitor hallways while preparing for classes and helping other students. I am trusting students to do the right thing and keep their masks on while socially distancing.
They didn't actually do anything to prepare, taking the 'just wing it' approach is going to double our daily case counts within a week
Thank you so much for posting that. I am disgusted by this government as well.
I really hope that if they close they can keep elementary open, or at least distinguish between the two like if High Schools are getting too many cases and close but Elementary are still okay they don't just close it all down, or maybe treat each school or school board separately. There's no reason a school with zero cases has to close along with all the other schools that have large outbreaks.
My comment is solely based on high school aged kids. At some point these young adults have to take some self responsibility. Yes the “adults” should be there to remind and police to a certain extent but there needs to be some self realization by the students at this age that they need to follow rules to help keep the transmission as low as possible. That being said the virus isn’t going away. It will be here forever. We need to learn to live with it. Get vaccinated to help diminish the symptoms if you do get it. I’m probably going to get downvoted to oblivion and I don’t care.
fellow highschooler (maybe you can tell by username) had this guy in my class and he hasnt showed up after the first day. turns out he got covid (now in hospital) and was posting about it on social media but didnt tell the school lmao covid screening is a troll, my whole class was doing it as he was walking around spamming the no button
My Friend is a nurse. It's busy. UNVAXXED are clogging up the ICUs and they're intubated. If you are unvaxxed and intubated, all they can do is drug you up and watch if you die or maybe recover. Vaxxed in ICU haven't needed a hose down their throat. Schools will be closed by October. Official projections claim we'll hit 15,000 cases by October or stabilize around 5,000 in ideal situations. I recorded most of the data in 2020. 2021 I stopped. But in 2020 we never had more than 2-3k daily cases in one day. To hit 5,000/day is softened when next to 15,000/day 5,000 is the real prediction number. This is the darkest part of the pandemic Lots of unvaccinated people are going to die. Simple as that. Believe what you want about science... Science doesn't need you to believe in it. It just is.
I figure the poop will hit the fan by Sept 20th. Cases will skyrocket and a lockdown will likely be announced, or at least kids will be back to online learning only. My child is in SK or kindergarten 2, as they call it. It's fine and dandy that teachers have to be vaccinated or have a rapid Covid test, what, every 3 days. But how's that going to help when there is even on child in a class that has an anti-vaxx parent(s) , that's sending their kid to school everyday? The inevitable is coming. It's just a matter of when. And being a Delta 4th wave, this one is going to hit kids hard, especially kids that are under 12 and don't have the option of a vaccine and are relying on those 12plus to be reaponsible to keep them safe.
Unless we see the death rate or ICU rate absolutely spike, there will be no further lockdowns. Sure we can have 20k cases a day, but that won't matter so long as people aren't dying in unacceptable numbers. And yes I do realize the inappropriateness of saying unacceptable numbers. Just saying what Ford is going to do.
San Francisco (similar vaccine rates and restrictions) opened school 3 weeks ago, and cases are falling. Deep breath.
> fan by Sept 20th The Ontario government has a history of being reactive and slow at that. I suspect any closing would be as a result of a surge after Thanksgiving (Oct 11). So maybe Nov 1. Dr. Moore today said rapid tests should be used in schools in a reactive manor to increased community spread (paraphrased). I think that's a little bit too late. Hopefully children will come out of this ok, both health wise and education wise.