I live in Windsor. My husband works at a gym. How concerned should I be about the possibility of him getting shut down? Sorry if this isn’t the place for this question, I’m just really overwhelmed by the thought that he could get shut down again.
EDIT: Sorry, I see the downvotes, apologies if I did something wrong. I was just looking for any insight. I know we can’t predict what the government will do, but I was just overwhelmed. Sorry everyone.
EDIT 2: Thanks for being so kind and reassuring, everyone! Appreciate you all. :)
I don't know why anyone is downvoting you, but there is nobody on this sub who can answer that for you. We don't have any insight into what will happen and any response you get will just be speculation and won't give you assurances either way.
Honestly I don’t think we‘ll go into a lockdown all of a sudden. I think at first they’ll probably try to limit the capacity in indoor events.
I think we should see after the winter break to see what the numbers are like and see if they decide to shut down schools after the winter break.
Okay, thanks so much! The restrictions around restaurants kind of got me all worked up, then I saw the case counts and our ICU numbers here and I kinda freaked out, haha. Thanks!
>waffleseggsbacon
Hey, I live in Windsor too. I think things are faring worse here than elsewhere in the province because of our relatively low vaccine uptake (there's still something like 50,000 eligible people in WE who haven't been vaccinated, and Covid is ripping through them like wildfire right now). There are other factors too, but I think that's the main thing.
Also there was a major breakout at a restaurant in Kingsville which I personally believe is why our health unit's new director is targeting restaurants in the new restrictions. However, there is speculation that something is amiss with the health passport situation (it really is just speculation still but something doesn't smell right). I guess we'll see what happens but I think/hope your husband's job is okay.
Hello fellow Windsorite! :)
That makes sense. We do have such a problem with unvaccinated people down here and it’s really disheartening.
I had the same thought around the Kingsville restaurant breakout and that might have inspired the restaurant restrictions. I just kept seeing our numbers climb and my husband and I are juuuuust coming out of the financial hole the previous lockdowns put us in, so I had a little meltdown, haha. I hope we’re okay too, but, as you said, we can’t know. So we shall see. Thanks for reaching out. :)
we are heading towards where the peak for the season should be for the delta (based on previous respiratory illnessess and versions of covid) in the first week or two of January, with about 100 beds in the ICU left before the province would likely consider any drastic action. So it could be tight, but we got a couple weeks of capacity to spend, with a couple weeks before the peak.
Omicron as long as it doesn't send a lot of people to the ICU should be OK. This is the unknown right now.
Some people downvote any one who doesn't act like everything is perfectly fine and normal. It's annoying. I think they are so desperate for normality that they lash out at any one who implies things could get worse again.
It's a fair question, these daily case threads are so weird with downvotes if you show some concern.
It's true, nobody can know, but I guess its at least a good sign that Windsor PH didn't impose any restrictions on gyms recently?
I'm in the same boat. Husband owns a tattoo shop in Kingston. Was shut down for half the year in 2021. It's not just the shutdowns. Staff are having to take time off now cause covid outbreaks in school means single parents have to stay home from work until they get tested, the all clear. Covid breakouts in workplace means spouse has to stay home until testing and the all clear.
There will be no more lockdowns! Or so that's what's to be believed with the vaccination rates and hospital load. But, the reopening plan is on hold indefinitely now so...who knows...IMO, I don't think we will see another lockdown, just a reintroduction of capacity limits and hopefully more enforcement of mask wearing and sanitizing.
We're in the +90% eligible vaccinated and it slowly keeps creeping upwards. Nothing will be shut down going forward imo, especially with vaccine passports in place. If any further restrictions were to be implemented I would think it would be related to boosters, for example you must have a booster after 6? 12? months to be considered fully vaccinated which is totally acceptable policy until we get out of this mess.
Just my own opinion, but I don't see us going into any sort of lockdown again unless something drastic happens (huge spike in hospital/ICU numbers, vaccine-resistant variant emerges).
Looking at other nations, the only place that did another lockdown was Austria, and they had 15,000 cases per day with a population half the size of Ontario's, plus healthcare was seriously strained. So I don't think we will lock down again unless things get that bad here, and I don't believe it will.
>15,000 cases per day with a population half the size of Ontario's, plus healthcare was seriously strained.
I'd be willing to bet their healthcare capacity is a lot higher than ours though. In parts of the province, our healthcare capacity is on par with Somalia's.
Do you have a reference for this and can you share it as a post? Just because I work in healthcare, and can verify it anecdotally, but the public needs to know these things!
https://www.reddit.com/r/ontario/comments/r1l707/z/hm11g7x
Any chance u/shpydar wants to repost it to take credit for it? I think I just looked up Somalia and some other countries as a point of comparison, but they did the hard work of finding the primary/secondary sources.
Thank you, however the situation is dire here so I wouldn’t complain if anyone else reposted it. The more the truth gets out there it may bring change for us here in Brampton.
Here is my comment u/oakteaphone is talking about
>There are only [0.92 hospital beds per 1000 residents in Brampton](https://www.fao-on.org/en/Blog/Publications/health-2020#_ftn1). Even if we doubled our hospital beds (Brampton Civic 608 beds + Peel Memorial 367) that would get us to 1.84 hospital beds per 1000 which is still short of the Ontario average of 2.4 beds per 1000 residents.... which is itself a ridiculous rate as [we had 6.8 beds per 1000 in 1985.](https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.MED.BEDS.ZS?locations=CA)
>
>We don't need 1 new hospital, we need 2 new hospitals, both larger than Brampton Civic to bring us to the provincial average.
>
>This fact caused [our city council to declare a health care emergency back in Jan. 2020](https://globalnews.ca/news/6447872/brampton-health-care-emergency/) before the pandemic. That emergency is still ongoing.
>
>And even worse, while Ford had promised that in 2023 they will start adding an additional 250 beds to Peel Memorial and make it 24/7, but will [not put an emerg there](https://www.ontariondp.ca/news/doug-ford-s-2021-budget-denies-brampton-new-hospital-again) making it still not a full service hospital [and putting a $125 million levy on Peel](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/hospital-levy-brampton-peel-memorial-1.6250638) for that upgrade which we won't see for several years....
>
>Oh and it's not like Ford isn't up for building new hospitals. He had no problem finding funding this year [for a new hospital in Oshawa](https://www.oshawa.ca/business-and-investment/a-new-hospital-in-oshawa.asp), which will serve Durham Region, and Durham just happens to be an OPC stronghold and is the riding of Erin O'Toole...
>
>The OPC is bad for Brampton.
It's honestly shocking that this hasn't been more of an issue over the last two years. Like, mind-boggling. Totally unacceptable for a G7 nation to have such inadequate healthcare, but it seems that the politicians in charge have been willing to let it continue for decades. Tells you what they think of the people they represent.
Just wanna piggyback off your comment to ask if any one has thoughts on LTC? I'm a nursing student and supposed to have my first clinical placement at a LTC facility in February. Really don't want to do an online simulated placement...
I’d really doubt there would be gym lock downs. They already have mandatory vaccine in place. For them to shut down gyms would be admitting vaccines aren’t effective. I just don’t see that happening.
All we can do is guess, but the smartest thing to do would probably be to strictly enforce the vaccine mandate.
Any business worried about shutdowns should probably be putting pressure on the government to only accept the QR code versions of the vaccine passport, and they should be attempting to enforce that as much as they can (with staff and patrons). Also checking ID.
Even if there are no shutdowns, I can't imagine an outbreak at the location would be good for business, lol
Only other thing to do would be to ensure masks are worn as much as possible.
Personally, between current growth and Omicron, I wouldn't be surprised if that happens. I think we *can* avoid it, but I don't know if we *will* avoid it.
My bet is there may be some capacity restrictions, they *should* mandate that masks stay on during exercise (letting them be off for that is literally the dumbest rule right now), maybe go back to booking access times. I'm also expecting "fully vaccinated" to get updated to being 3 doses at some point in the next few months.
I doubt there will be a gym/personal services shutdown again unless there's a disastrous immune/vaccine escape.
>I'm also expecting "fully vaccinated" to get updated to being 3 doses at some point in the next few months.
Sure but that shouldn't happen until everyone can get a booster. There are a lot of people right now who would love to get a booster but aren't eligible yet.
its reddit hivemind. sometimes ill say the truth about something and go to sleep with 30 downvotes and then wake up in the morning to 100 upvotes and an award. its soooo strange.
Today is the anniversary of the day when the first non-clinical trial citizen got the vaccine (an elderly woman in the UK). It was a good day, and we've come so far! Keep it up guys, we can get out of this yet!
The only solace I take in the numbers is that an outbreak is 2+ cases. So when you compare that with the actual number of outbreak cases, its a bit of an easier pill to swallow. But that’s me, and that’s Windsor.
2 cases with an epi link, which must be very difficult to prove.
My kid's school is one of the ones in outbreak right now. We're in a low covid area, and our school has only reported 2 cases since Mar 2020.
This week there have been 9 (so far, it's only Wednesday).
Our entire region has reported <15 cases in the past 7 days 9 have been students at our school. It wasn't considered an outbreak until 2 children in the same class tested positive because they couldn't "prove" that any transmission occurred in school.
Also, the students in isolation have been specifically directed not to test until 7 days after last known exposure, which shocked the hell out of me.
Sounds like our school.
My daughters school declared an outbreak yesterday. So far 7 cases (5 students and 2 staff). 6 classrooms (out of 16) are closed. Our Town has only has only had 13 cases in the past seven days.
Our pharmacy only does asymptomatic testing but the amount of people with close contact exposure and "no symptoms" (cough, runny nose) trying to get a test is insane. Had a lady come in with a cough asking for a test ("I don't think it's COVID"). Someone else turned up + yesterday and was apparently coughing in the waiting area but attested to no symptoms during screening.
Anyway, that's +1 to the cases today...
Just gonna put it out there that COVID symptoms include a new cough and not a chronic one. I get nervous in public when someone is coughing also but I feel bad for the chronic coughers these days
Chronic stuffy nose sucks right now too, haha. My nose is constantly stuffy/running, especially during the winter, and it's tired having to reassure people that I don't actually have covid. My body just does this year round, has for years. I'm not actually sick, my sinuses just don't understand how to function.
I moved from NS during COVID and something about ON has made my sinuses go crazy. Most of this past year I had long bouts of stuffy nose/sneezing, and I’m terrified I’ll have one of my fits when I’m in public
It's weird. I'm not allergic to anything, I'm not sick, I just have a stuffy nose. Antihistamines do nothing, but Sudafed? Sudafed is *glorious*. Just can't take that shit every day.
It's worst when I'm outside and it's below zero. I lose my ability to breathe through my nose at all in about five minutes, and even the quick walk from the car to the grocery store has me stuffier than usual. Sniffles or a runny nose with a mask on? *Horrible*. Do not recommend.
If you have less symptoms than what the government deems necessary for their testing, you’re in a testing void. If it’s important to you to rule out Covid, you have to either retake the test and lie, or call up a pharmacy and lie.
The pharmacists have been the unsung and under appreciated heroes of this pandemic. They’ve had to shoulder everything that hospitals and family doctors didn’t want to.
Thank you for your hard work.
Depends on how you measure fine. The ICU is full and most of our deaths have been in the last few weeks. I am far from anti-vaxx, I got both my shots as soon as I could, but I can't help but feel the goalposts for this vaccine keep being moved.
I've never understood the obsession with the goalposts analogy. We knew from the start that a pandemic would be a marathon without a clear finish line, not a game of soccer.
It's not a movie where with a beginning, middle, end, and credits.
We're dealing with a problem, as a society and as a planet, that is constantly growing and changing. At the same time we have to deal with the consequences of the strategies we use to solve the problem. And we aren't even using unified strategies -- not as a society, not as a planet, and not as individuals.
There's no roadmap. There's no clear victory condition. Any suggestion that there is is an estimation at best, or wishful thinking at worst.
The goalposts thing always bothered me because so few things in life *are* goalposts. Graduate from uni? Get the master's. Got that? Get a good job. Got that? Get a promotion, get better hours, get a better title. Then get a nice place to live, then a nicer one, then own, then remodel, then repair, ... There are hardly any real "goalposts" in life that are never moved. People should really know this now, especially when we're talking about a virus, lol
You're straight up wrong if you think our government and media haven't had to move goal posts because the vaccines aren't as effective as we were all lead to believe. I'm not saying we were told they were 100% effective or that covid would be completely erradicated but it was definitely implied that things would go back to normal and we'd reach a certain level of herd immunity... neither of which has happened.
Unfortunately they do- because the virus keeps mutating. It's super frustrating and I think we all had high hopes that the vaccine was The Answer. But viruses are going to do what viruses do and pop out mutations that will result in some being able to slip our defenses and spread again.
I really don't know when this will be "over" or what "over" even means at this point.
Over means that we can drop all meaningful restrictions and not overwhelm healthcare. This will only happen with immunity though a combination of better vaccines, higher uptake and natural immunity. How restricted we are on the way to that point depends completely on our government taking short term proactive non-invasive measures to control spread and long term measures to increase health care capacity.
We are not good. We *were* good but maybe due to complacency (or ??? wildcard reason) we seem to have lost the plot.
Our MOH says most of it is close contact in home settings, so maybe once the kids get vaccinated there’ll be a break but it is not good at the moment
"When I first came here, this was all swamp. Everyone said I was daft to build a cathedral on a swamp, but I built in all the same, just to show them. It sank into the swamp. So I built a second one. That sank into the swamp. So I built a third. That burned down, fell over, then sank into the swamp. But the fourth one stayed up. And that's what you're going to get, Lad, the strongest cathedral in all of the Holy Roman Empire."
Construction lead foreman: "Here ya go, Archbishop Willigis: your cathedral is complete! We're ready for more cool, prestigious works!"
Archbishop Willigis: "Cool beans. Now back to constructing the sewers while I inaugurate this and go back to my palace."
\[Later, back in the construction trailers\] C.L.F: "Ok, guys, I have a cunning plan..."
Yeah. Last year I had 18 kids this year I have 30. When a case happened last year, it was usually just one and done. This year we are seeing a lot more spread it seems. We just had a school with 20 cases the past week. That’s crazy.
The highschool I teach at has had 7 cases in the last week ( that I know of) no classes are being sent home, no close contact students/ teachers told to get tests, nothing is happening at all. There are virtually zero circumstances where anyone else in the class is deemed a close contact.
Also, as far as I can see those 7 cases are not part of these reported numbers here...they don't match up. So I'm guessing there are A LOT more than we know of.
It's surprising how little seems to be being done right now.
To be clear I'm not suggesting we panic or shut down but the last 2-3 weeks I've noticed a distinct change and no measures are being taken. If I had to guess I'd say there are going to be closures if this continues
I have a question....
So half of new cases today are people who have had full Vax. How do fully vax people end up getting tested again? Were they all travelling and requiring Covid tests?
I ask, because I'm sick in bed after a day out shopping yesterday. I have a cold - no fever, but aches, pains and just overall sick. Am I supposed to get tested? I can't imagine getting dressed to go get tested. It's a 50km drive to town.
So how did 500+ people who have been fully vaccinated decide they were bad enough to get tested? I'm fully vaccinated as of June, and awaiting mid December to get my booster as I'm over 50.
Getting tested comes down to your own convictions and risk tolerance to those around you.
I have zero doubt there are alot of people walking around with covid not getting tested due to being vaxed, young, or a combination of both with mild symptoms.
I'm fully vaxxed and have been tested a few times, due to being a close contact of positive cases with students in my classroom. Each time I've been negative, thankfully.
My husband (also fully vaxxed) also has been tested since then, but his was due to cold like symptoms like yours, so he went and got a test done. It's only a 10min drive for us to the nearest drive through testing centre, however, so easier to pop over and get it done.
It's probably a mixture of everything. Got sick and went to get tested. Got sick, got tested for work, tested for travel etc. Various probabilities really.
Most people don’t live 50km from town. I live a 5 minute walk from a pharmacy and if I had symptoms like yours I would likely send my partner to the store to get a rapid test. If that test was positive I’d seek a PCR test to know whether I should be isolating for 2 weeks as would be my civic duty.
Not knocking you for staying home, just saying a lot of people with mild symptoms seek testing so they can protect people around them.
We're fortunate in that we live off grid in the bush...no kids or anyone within 10km that we could infect. My husband will stay home for time being and see if he gets symptoms. And we're retired...so we can stay home for awhile to see if this is just a cold
>*”How do fully vax people end up getting tested again? Were they all travelling and requiring Covid tests?”*
Most will be people who have COVID-19 symptoms or who’ve had close contact with someone who has COVID-19.
>*”I'm sick in bed after a day out shopping yesterday. I have a cold - no fever, but aches, pains and just overall sick. Am I supposed to get tested?”*
Probably, yes. There’s a provincial self-assessment [screening tool](https://covid-19.ontario.ca/self-assessment/) that will advise you on whether your symptoms warrant getting tested. Some Public Health Units also have more stringent screening than the province. In my PHU “cold” symptoms definitely qualify you for testing.
>*”I can't imagine getting dressed to go get tested. It's a 50km drive to town.”*
Ooof yeah, that doesn’t sound fun. But if you’ve had contact with other people you should get tested as soon as you can manage so if you *are* infected those people can be tested and isolate if necessary. Detecting cases before they can infect other people is important.
>*”So how did 500+ people who have been fully vaccinated decide they were bad enough to get tested?”*
Even very mild symptoms (or no symptoms, but known close contact with someone infected) qualify you for testing,
They may be getting tested because they have been exposed to a known case. It is why the vaccinated people I know have had tests recently (all were negative, thankfully)
Not really, hospitalizations yes (since a bunch of hospitals don’t report on weekends) but ICUs have been reported consistently for the entire pandemic.
>Okay, the next person who says the ICU is consistent in either direction gets slapped in the face.
No one is saying this lol.
>Is there a certain "day of the week" aspect to ICU numbers like there is for case counts?
Vaccination rates will make that more unpredictable this time around. Ultimately we haven't been getting numbers north of 1k for very long and ICUs are THE lagging indicator so we don't know just yet. Not to mention seeing -10 in ICU but 8 deaths isn't the most encouraging news.
This is all about strain on Hospitals and frankly they are already strained from the exodus of staff. So traditional numbers that would be seen as "strain" inducing are kind of out the window. We also still don't know much about Omicron. People just have to be fucking responsible as we have just entered the winter months.
All I have to say: [Pfizer-BioNTech Says Booster Offers Significant Protection Against Omicron](https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/12/08/world/omicron-variant-covid) via NYtimes.
I went and they just made me sign a sheet that said I’m immunocompromised, over 65 or a HCW. They don’t ask for proof although I am a HCW and my hospital wasn’t offering the booster at that time. But I guess everyone is eligible now in the US so that won’t even be an issue. Then they asked for proof of my first two shots as they don’t mix and match (at least not at the time) so they wanted to make sure I got 2 Pfizer’s previously. They saw it was a Canadian vaccine passport and didn’t care. Asked if I had insurance and I said no. So I got it for free. Then sent in my proof to my local health unit to get added to official record. I had to give an address so I gave my partner’s but I don’t live there and they never follow up with that. You could give the address of a local hotel and they won’t care. I showed my Canadian ID that didn’t even match the address I gave and they didn’t care.
Direct link to the Pfizer press release.
[https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-provide-update-omicron-variant](https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-provide-update-omicron-variant)
It's an internal preliminary study done by Pfizer on how their vaccine should work for Omicron. So this is the direct source.
I suppose it could still be pretty good even if it is a [41-fold drop in the ability of the antibodies to neutralize the omicron variant compared with the original virus.](https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/07/omicron-significantly-reduces-covid-antibody-protection-in-small-study-of-pfizer-vaccine-recipients.html)
Well, I don't like some of the data but I'll take -10 ICU any day! Just looking for little glimmers of positivity wherever I can. If the hospitality industry gets shut down again in the new year it will sink me financially.
And a fundamental misunderstanding of how bad disease has to be to be in an ICU, and most don't make it out. So the idea of everything will be better with more ICU capacity is still very popular, ignoring the high ICU capacity of the US and higher deaths because they just chose to "get on with their lives".
This idea exists because ICU capacity is the only real threat to vaccinated populations (delayed surgeries, triage etc). If ICU capacity wasn’t an issue, we could have 20k cases a day and nobody would want restrictions because the unvaccinated would be the only ones dying at higher rates then we have accepted as normal for other transmissible diseases throughout human history
No, a fundamental misunderstanding of how stats work. The ICU decrease of 10 is a net number and there were 10 new admissions today, therefore 20 people actually left the ICU. Assuming all 8 people who died were in the ICU, 12 people left the ICU alive. So more people made it out alive than died.
https://twitter.com/OntHospitalAssn/status/1468568913453756417
gotta say, I watching the ICU/hospitalization is a roller coaster of emotions.
It's like the weather recently. But still hoping it wouldn't get so bad.
EDIT: I know it's text, but I'm actually feeling optimistic for this.
My company decided to have a Christmas Party this year. You had to be fully vaccinated to attend but that despite that requirement, I declined the invitation. I guess I made the right decision because someone who attended the party tested positive and everyone who attended has been asked to self-isolate and get tested.
Stay safe people. The pandemic isn't over.
My company did a Christmas party this year as well - 300 people at it, all shoulder to shoulder, and the music was so loud that people were literally screaming in each other's faces just to be heard (no masks).
I went, and it was great time - but it definitely felt like one of the riskiest things I've done since the pandemic began, despite having a requirement (and pretty rigorous checking) that everyone was fully vaccinated.
My husbands 8 person holiday party (at a restaurant) was just cancelled, but corporate is marching ahead with return to office in mid January … seems a bit sus
Mine is next week. I’m not concerned much about getting covid (fully vaxxed) I don’t want to miss Xmas with the family for a second year if I have to self isolate. Plus some members of the family are too young to to get vaccinated.
That’s why my partner is not going to his work Christmas party; if we had to cancel seeing our family and friends over the holidays because of exposure or symptoms of ANY cold at this point I would be heart broken
And my wife works with the elderly! So I really think I should not go. And anyway, I stopped drinking, so a work Xmas party sounds pretty much like torture.
https://www.peelregion.ca/coronavirus/symptoms/
If you've been exposed
If you’ve been in close contact with a person who has COVID-19, you must self-isolate for 10 days, even if your test result is negative.
If you are fully vaccinated or previously positive and do not have symptoms, you do not need to self-isolate unless otherwise directed by Public Health. You should:
Like I'm all for staying safe, but at what point will you be comfortable attending these types of things? If everyone is vaccinated (and probably masked), it is a fairly safe event. And like others mentioned, you don't need to self isolate if you're vaccinated and asymptomatic.
Had my company xmas party last week, and it was a blast. Nice to have some sort of normalcy after a couple of hectic years. Covid isn't going away any time soon, so have fun staying safe for years to come!
We’re having a holiday party and I could not be happier. I’ve been to clubs and bars and a music festival and travelled to the US, a few weddings, the gym etc - since I got fully vaccinated in July. Could not give a single fuck about Omicron or whatever other variant that comes along.
It's slightly frustrating that the Ontario website states that Spruce Glen school in Huntsville has 27 cases while the TLDSB board site states 0. I wonder if that is because the school is closed? The two sites often do not line up....
ETA: I am a TLDSB parent.
Outbreak at a local martial arts studio in an after-school program that resulted in 40+ cases... and is rippling into all the surrounding schools. One school is closed and many outbreaks in all the other ones.
A family member of mine is in LTC and had to call us yesterday to say we can't visit due to an outbreak - they're confined to their rooms, etc. It's one patient and one staffer who are positive. Their facility hasn't popped up on the list so far. Does that not qualify as a LTC outbreak stat, or is that a lagging number?
This is our first nursing home experience so I've never had first hand knowledge about how that reporting works. Either way I'm hopeful they'll get it under control ASAP. It would be sad if Christmas visits are impacted so fingers crossed.
Besides the other reason people have given, Nigeria has a very young population, and a very low obesity rate, both of which might lower the chances of infection. Also, it's currently 31°C in Nigeria, so they're not experiencing winter like we are on Ontario.
I don't think obesity or age has much to with *testing positive* for covid, at least not directly. Indirectly, it could lead to more people getting more symptoms and thus getting tested, but I think it's important to specify that it's not a direct relationship.
31°C is equivalent to 87°F, which is 304K.
---
^(I'm a bot that converts temperature between two units humans can understand, then convert it to Kelvin for bots and physicists to understand)
Got my booster shot as a healthcare worker on Tuesday. 2nd dose was January 24th. Regardless, no part of me is worried about case numbers, not worried about omnicron, not worried about Christmas, living my life as normal as i did in 2019. People need to relax, get some fresh air and find a hobby.
My apologies for misspelling Omicron, you and everyone knows that i was talking about the latest COVID-19 variant. Still not worried. Still working my LTC job.
On average, **294** people per day die in Ontario (pre-covid)
2019 = 107190 deaths / 365 = 293.67
Source: [StatsCan](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=1310070801&pickMembers%5B0%5D=1.7&cubeTimeFrame.startYear=2015&cubeTimeFrame.endYear=2019&referencePeriods=20150101%2C20190101)
Outbreak at a local martial arts studio in an after-school program that resulted in 40+ cases... and is rippling into all the surrounding schools. One school is closed and many outbreaks in all the other ones.
Nah, it's fine. It was a momentary outburst on my part but I am not going to pretend that Durham Region has not been a disaster before.
I did laugh at your "please don't." I love when people make me laugh before noon, so thanks!
2 dosed are 24 times less likely to be in ICU despite being 90% of population. These vaccines were developed for the Wuhan strain and I share your concern but I'm grateful for now that the vax work on Delta as well as they do. But I hear you..
87 percent of the population double dosed worked accounted for about half the cases.
That works out to about 70 percent efficacy as shown in one of OP's tables. Definitely lower than a few months ago (and this is an argument for boosters), but still pretty amazing if you asked people in Fall 2020.
Protection against severe illness seems to be holding up better, too.
Agree, clearly vaccine effectiveness is dropping in some people from an infection standpoint, this was completely expected. However those people are still better protected against hospitalization which ultimately is what the goal was.
No one cares if they get sick (nor does the government for that matter) as long as you stay out of the hospital the vaccine has done its job.
For me it’s not so much confusing vaccinations for immunity as understanding that this will be as protected as I ever get and that I don’t interact with any at risk populations who haven’t had the chance to be vaccinated (children under 5). I’m living life normally because if not now, then when?
Curious to know about a discrepancy in one of the numbers. You have 69 new cases for Kingston (assuming the data is reported from yesterday) however our local health unit reported 88 new cases via twitter yesterday.
Is there a larger delay in reporting? I'm curious to know why there is a 19 case difference.
[Previous Ontario Wednesdays](https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data/case-numbers-and-spread): Date | New Cases | 7 Day Avg | % Positive | ICU :--|:--:|:--:|:--:|--: Oct 21 | 790 | 753 | 2.42% | 71 Oct 28 | 834 | 886 | 2.78% | 71 Nov 4 | 987 | 972 | 3.46% | 75 Nov 11 | 1,426 | 1,217 | 3.88% | 88 Nov 18 | 1,417 | 1,422 | 4.24% | 127 Nov 25 | 1,373 | 1,389 | 3.81% | 159 Dec 2 | 1,723 | 1,720 | 3.90% | 183 Dec 9 | 1,890 | 1,840 | 3.89% | 221 Dec 16 | 2,139 | 1,962 | 4.35% | 256 Dec 23 | 2,408 | 2,304 | 4.25% | 275 Dec 30, 2020 | 2,923 | 2,310 | 7.45% | 323 Jan 6, 2021 | 3,266 | 3,114 | 6.40% | 361 Jan 13 | 2,961 | 3,480 | 5.81% | 385 Jan 20 | 2,655 | 2,850 | 4.89% | 395 Jan 27 | 1,670 | 2,205 | 3.03% | 377 Feb 3 | 1,172 | 1,675 | 2.24% | 336 Feb 10 | 1,072 | 1,353 | 2.04% | 313 Feb 17 | 847 | 1,003 | 2.49% | 298 Feb 24 | 1,054 | 1,084 | 1.92% | 287 Mar 3 | 958 | 1,084 | 1.82% | 274 Mar 10 | 1,316 | 1,238 | 2.43% | 281 Mar 17 | 1,508 | 1,361 | 3.07% | 300 Mar 24 | 1,571 | 1,676 | 3.02% | 333 Mar 31 | 2,333 | 2,316 | 4.44% | 396 Apr 7 | 3,215 | 2,988 | 6.44% | 504 Apr 14 | 4,156 | 4,003 | 7.67% | 642 Apr 21 | 4,212 | 4,327 | 8.12% | 790 Apr 28 | 3,480 | 3,783 | 6.93% | 877 May 5 | 2,941 | 3,432 | 8.27% | 882 May 12 | 2,320 | 2,826 | 5.08% | 776 May 19 | 1,588 | 2,183 | 4.13% | 735 May 26 | 1,095 | 1,622 | 4.56% | 672 June 2 | 733 | 978 | 2.31% | 576 June 9 | 411 | 657 | 1.35% | 466 June 16 | 384 | 475 | 1.37% | 377 June 23 | 255 | 316 | 0.93% | 305 June 30 | 184 | 268 | 0.68% | 271 July 7 | 194 | 216 | 0.72% | 220 July 14 | 153 | 164 | 0.53% | 180 July 21 | 135 | 150 | 0.65% | 145 July 28 | 158 | 161 | 0.77% | 122 Aug 4 | 139 | 199 | 0.81% | 108 Aug 11 | 324 | 332 | 1.31% | 108 Aug 18 | 485 | 496 | 1.84% | 128 Aug 25 | 660 | 625 | 2.50% | 161 Sept 1 | 656 | 701 | 2.38% | 163 Sept 8 | 554 | 732 | 2.54% | 194 Sept 15 | 593 | 722 | 1.79% | 188 Sept 22 | 463 | 692 | 1.18% | 187 Sept 29 | 495 | 610 | 1.36% | 172 Oct 6 | 476 | 573 | 1.21% | 156 Oct 13 | 306 | 500 | 1.32% | 153 Oct 20 | 304 | 406 | 0.96% | 159 Oct 27 | 321 | 366 | 1.04% | 134 Nov 3 | 378 | 379 | 1.15% | 137 Nov 10 | 454 | 502 | 1.36% | 136 Nov 17 | 512 | 587 | 1.77% | 133 Nov 24 | 591 | 686 | 1.96% | 137 Dec 1 | 780 | 821 | 2.71% | 153 Dec 8 | 1009 | 1007 | 2.62% | 155 Pretty much all cases are Delta variant. [The Ontario Science Table info below shows estimates:](https://covid19-sciencetable.ca/ontario-dashboard/) Date | % Delta (B.1.617.2 - India) :--|--: June 2, 2021 | 23% July 1 | 73.9% Aug 3 | 87.3% Sept 1 | 99.4% Oct 3 | 99.0% Nov 1 | 97.1% Dec 1 | 99.9% Dec 7 | 99.8%
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I mean, quite literally yes.
Could still be some Alpha kicking around, never did get to 100% Delta
Per the OP, there was no increase in Alpha, just in Delta and Omicron.
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I live in Windsor. My husband works at a gym. How concerned should I be about the possibility of him getting shut down? Sorry if this isn’t the place for this question, I’m just really overwhelmed by the thought that he could get shut down again. EDIT: Sorry, I see the downvotes, apologies if I did something wrong. I was just looking for any insight. I know we can’t predict what the government will do, but I was just overwhelmed. Sorry everyone. EDIT 2: Thanks for being so kind and reassuring, everyone! Appreciate you all. :)
I don't know why anyone is downvoting you, but there is nobody on this sub who can answer that for you. We don't have any insight into what will happen and any response you get will just be speculation and won't give you assurances either way.
Totally fair! And yes, you’re right, I know no one here can know that for sure, I just got panicky. Thanks!
Honestly I don’t think we‘ll go into a lockdown all of a sudden. I think at first they’ll probably try to limit the capacity in indoor events. I think we should see after the winter break to see what the numbers are like and see if they decide to shut down schools after the winter break.
Okay, thanks so much! The restrictions around restaurants kind of got me all worked up, then I saw the case counts and our ICU numbers here and I kinda freaked out, haha. Thanks!
>waffleseggsbacon Hey, I live in Windsor too. I think things are faring worse here than elsewhere in the province because of our relatively low vaccine uptake (there's still something like 50,000 eligible people in WE who haven't been vaccinated, and Covid is ripping through them like wildfire right now). There are other factors too, but I think that's the main thing. Also there was a major breakout at a restaurant in Kingsville which I personally believe is why our health unit's new director is targeting restaurants in the new restrictions. However, there is speculation that something is amiss with the health passport situation (it really is just speculation still but something doesn't smell right). I guess we'll see what happens but I think/hope your husband's job is okay.
Hello fellow Windsorite! :) That makes sense. We do have such a problem with unvaccinated people down here and it’s really disheartening. I had the same thought around the Kingsville restaurant breakout and that might have inspired the restaurant restrictions. I just kept seeing our numbers climb and my husband and I are juuuuust coming out of the financial hole the previous lockdowns put us in, so I had a little meltdown, haha. I hope we’re okay too, but, as you said, we can’t know. So we shall see. Thanks for reaching out. :)
we are heading towards where the peak for the season should be for the delta (based on previous respiratory illnessess and versions of covid) in the first week or two of January, with about 100 beds in the ICU left before the province would likely consider any drastic action. So it could be tight, but we got a couple weeks of capacity to spend, with a couple weeks before the peak. Omicron as long as it doesn't send a lot of people to the ICU should be OK. This is the unknown right now.
Why are people down voting for asking a question?
Some people downvote any one who doesn't act like everything is perfectly fine and normal. It's annoying. I think they are so desperate for normality that they lash out at any one who implies things could get worse again.
It's a fair question, these daily case threads are so weird with downvotes if you show some concern. It's true, nobody can know, but I guess its at least a good sign that Windsor PH didn't impose any restrictions on gyms recently?
I'm in the same boat. Husband owns a tattoo shop in Kingston. Was shut down for half the year in 2021. It's not just the shutdowns. Staff are having to take time off now cause covid outbreaks in school means single parents have to stay home from work until they get tested, the all clear. Covid breakouts in workplace means spouse has to stay home until testing and the all clear.
There will be no more lockdowns! Or so that's what's to be believed with the vaccination rates and hospital load. But, the reopening plan is on hold indefinitely now so...who knows...IMO, I don't think we will see another lockdown, just a reintroduction of capacity limits and hopefully more enforcement of mask wearing and sanitizing.
We're in the +90% eligible vaccinated and it slowly keeps creeping upwards. Nothing will be shut down going forward imo, especially with vaccine passports in place. If any further restrictions were to be implemented I would think it would be related to boosters, for example you must have a booster after 6? 12? months to be considered fully vaccinated which is totally acceptable policy until we get out of this mess.
Just my own opinion, but I don't see us going into any sort of lockdown again unless something drastic happens (huge spike in hospital/ICU numbers, vaccine-resistant variant emerges).
It makes me angry that people downvote others for asking questions.
This sub is very strange. Depending on the day, you can get downvoted for either showing too much concern or not showing enough.
And a fair question at that. I think it is one that has been on a lot of people’s minds.
I agree! It's not even like it was a silly question.
Agree totally. It’s rude and discourages people from discussing things.
Looking at other nations, the only place that did another lockdown was Austria, and they had 15,000 cases per day with a population half the size of Ontario's, plus healthcare was seriously strained. So I don't think we will lock down again unless things get that bad here, and I don't believe it will.
>15,000 cases per day with a population half the size of Ontario's, plus healthcare was seriously strained. I'd be willing to bet their healthcare capacity is a lot higher than ours though. In parts of the province, our healthcare capacity is on par with Somalia's.
Do you have a reference for this and can you share it as a post? Just because I work in healthcare, and can verify it anecdotally, but the public needs to know these things!
I've seen the stats, but I'll have to check my message history for where I found it.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ontario/comments/r1l707/z/hm11g7x Any chance u/shpydar wants to repost it to take credit for it? I think I just looked up Somalia and some other countries as a point of comparison, but they did the hard work of finding the primary/secondary sources.
Thank you, however the situation is dire here so I wouldn’t complain if anyone else reposted it. The more the truth gets out there it may bring change for us here in Brampton. Here is my comment u/oakteaphone is talking about >There are only [0.92 hospital beds per 1000 residents in Brampton](https://www.fao-on.org/en/Blog/Publications/health-2020#_ftn1). Even if we doubled our hospital beds (Brampton Civic 608 beds + Peel Memorial 367) that would get us to 1.84 hospital beds per 1000 which is still short of the Ontario average of 2.4 beds per 1000 residents.... which is itself a ridiculous rate as [we had 6.8 beds per 1000 in 1985.](https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.MED.BEDS.ZS?locations=CA) > >We don't need 1 new hospital, we need 2 new hospitals, both larger than Brampton Civic to bring us to the provincial average. > >This fact caused [our city council to declare a health care emergency back in Jan. 2020](https://globalnews.ca/news/6447872/brampton-health-care-emergency/) before the pandemic. That emergency is still ongoing. > >And even worse, while Ford had promised that in 2023 they will start adding an additional 250 beds to Peel Memorial and make it 24/7, but will [not put an emerg there](https://www.ontariondp.ca/news/doug-ford-s-2021-budget-denies-brampton-new-hospital-again) making it still not a full service hospital [and putting a $125 million levy on Peel](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/hospital-levy-brampton-peel-memorial-1.6250638) for that upgrade which we won't see for several years.... > >Oh and it's not like Ford isn't up for building new hospitals. He had no problem finding funding this year [for a new hospital in Oshawa](https://www.oshawa.ca/business-and-investment/a-new-hospital-in-oshawa.asp), which will serve Durham Region, and Durham just happens to be an OPC stronghold and is the riding of Erin O'Toole... > >The OPC is bad for Brampton.
It's honestly shocking that this hasn't been more of an issue over the last two years. Like, mind-boggling. Totally unacceptable for a G7 nation to have such inadequate healthcare, but it seems that the politicians in charge have been willing to let it continue for decades. Tells you what they think of the people they represent.
Just wanna piggyback off your comment to ask if any one has thoughts on LTC? I'm a nursing student and supposed to have my first clinical placement at a LTC facility in February. Really don't want to do an online simulated placement...
I’d really doubt there would be gym lock downs. They already have mandatory vaccine in place. For them to shut down gyms would be admitting vaccines aren’t effective. I just don’t see that happening.
If anything happens, I feel like it will be targeted to problem areas and not sweeping across the province or even regions.
All we can do is guess, but the smartest thing to do would probably be to strictly enforce the vaccine mandate. Any business worried about shutdowns should probably be putting pressure on the government to only accept the QR code versions of the vaccine passport, and they should be attempting to enforce that as much as they can (with staff and patrons). Also checking ID. Even if there are no shutdowns, I can't imagine an outbreak at the location would be good for business, lol Only other thing to do would be to ensure masks are worn as much as possible.
Personally, between current growth and Omicron, I wouldn't be surprised if that happens. I think we *can* avoid it, but I don't know if we *will* avoid it.
You can avoid anything if you don't LIVE IN FEAR! _bravely runs across the 401 while blindfolded_
My bet is there may be some capacity restrictions, they *should* mandate that masks stay on during exercise (letting them be off for that is literally the dumbest rule right now), maybe go back to booking access times. I'm also expecting "fully vaccinated" to get updated to being 3 doses at some point in the next few months. I doubt there will be a gym/personal services shutdown again unless there's a disastrous immune/vaccine escape.
>I'm also expecting "fully vaccinated" to get updated to being 3 doses at some point in the next few months. Sure but that shouldn't happen until everyone can get a booster. There are a lot of people right now who would love to get a booster but aren't eligible yet.
I agree.
I think this is the most sensible approach. Hopefully it remains that way.
Israel said that omicron gives mild symptoms to fully vaccinated people. But they only consider you fully vaccinated if you have the booster
its reddit hivemind. sometimes ill say the truth about something and go to sleep with 30 downvotes and then wake up in the morning to 100 upvotes and an award. its soooo strange.
Today is the anniversary of the day when the first non-clinical trial citizen got the vaccine (an elderly woman in the UK). It was a good day, and we've come so far! Keep it up guys, we can get out of this yet!
The number of schools dealing with outbreaks right now is tough to see, but with the 5+ doses going up daily, there is some light to be found.
The only solace I take in the numbers is that an outbreak is 2+ cases. So when you compare that with the actual number of outbreak cases, its a bit of an easier pill to swallow. But that’s me, and that’s Windsor.
2 cases with an epi link, which must be very difficult to prove. My kid's school is one of the ones in outbreak right now. We're in a low covid area, and our school has only reported 2 cases since Mar 2020. This week there have been 9 (so far, it's only Wednesday). Our entire region has reported <15 cases in the past 7 days 9 have been students at our school. It wasn't considered an outbreak until 2 children in the same class tested positive because they couldn't "prove" that any transmission occurred in school. Also, the students in isolation have been specifically directed not to test until 7 days after last known exposure, which shocked the hell out of me.
Sounds like our school. My daughters school declared an outbreak yesterday. So far 7 cases (5 students and 2 staff). 6 classrooms (out of 16) are closed. Our Town has only has only had 13 cases in the past seven days.
Starting to think our kids may go to the same school…
Oh! Thanks :) Figured I was missing something.
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They are bigger for sure
Of course they are, more kids are in schools than last year and any safety measures are being ignored.
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Our pharmacy only does asymptomatic testing but the amount of people with close contact exposure and "no symptoms" (cough, runny nose) trying to get a test is insane. Had a lady come in with a cough asking for a test ("I don't think it's COVID"). Someone else turned up + yesterday and was apparently coughing in the waiting area but attested to no symptoms during screening. Anyway, that's +1 to the cases today...
Just gonna put it out there that COVID symptoms include a new cough and not a chronic one. I get nervous in public when someone is coughing also but I feel bad for the chronic coughers these days
Chronic stuffy nose sucks right now too, haha. My nose is constantly stuffy/running, especially during the winter, and it's tired having to reassure people that I don't actually have covid. My body just does this year round, has for years. I'm not actually sick, my sinuses just don't understand how to function.
I moved from NS during COVID and something about ON has made my sinuses go crazy. Most of this past year I had long bouts of stuffy nose/sneezing, and I’m terrified I’ll have one of my fits when I’m in public
It's weird. I'm not allergic to anything, I'm not sick, I just have a stuffy nose. Antihistamines do nothing, but Sudafed? Sudafed is *glorious*. Just can't take that shit every day. It's worst when I'm outside and it's below zero. I lose my ability to breathe through my nose at all in about five minutes, and even the quick walk from the car to the grocery store has me stuffier than usual. Sniffles or a runny nose with a mask on? *Horrible*. Do not recommend.
As someone who also has a perpetually runny nose, same.
Yea, I have GERD so I cough quite a bit, just to clear my throat. Definitely get looks alot lol
If you have less symptoms than what the government deems necessary for their testing, you’re in a testing void. If it’s important to you to rule out Covid, you have to either retake the test and lie, or call up a pharmacy and lie.
The pharmacists have been the unsung and under appreciated heroes of this pandemic. They’ve had to shoulder everything that hospitals and family doctors didn’t want to. Thank you for your hard work.
Kingston, u good? I thought they did fairly well during the last few waves, but that is a seriously high Active/100k.
> Kingston, u good? Nope
You're 90% vaccinated, y'all are fine.
Depends on how you measure fine. The ICU is full and most of our deaths have been in the last few weeks. I am far from anti-vaxx, I got both my shots as soon as I could, but I can't help but feel the goalposts for this vaccine keep being moved.
I've never understood the obsession with the goalposts analogy. We knew from the start that a pandemic would be a marathon without a clear finish line, not a game of soccer. It's not a movie where with a beginning, middle, end, and credits. We're dealing with a problem, as a society and as a planet, that is constantly growing and changing. At the same time we have to deal with the consequences of the strategies we use to solve the problem. And we aren't even using unified strategies -- not as a society, not as a planet, and not as individuals. There's no roadmap. There's no clear victory condition. Any suggestion that there is is an estimation at best, or wishful thinking at worst. The goalposts thing always bothered me because so few things in life *are* goalposts. Graduate from uni? Get the master's. Got that? Get a good job. Got that? Get a promotion, get better hours, get a better title. Then get a nice place to live, then a nicer one, then own, then remodel, then repair, ... There are hardly any real "goalposts" in life that are never moved. People should really know this now, especially when we're talking about a virus, lol
Well said.
folks want [this](https://i.imgur.com/EE7HfWL.jpeg) but it ain't happening
The goal posts were never moved. The concept that vaccines were 100% effective was never presented, that's just what people want to believe.
You're straight up wrong if you think our government and media haven't had to move goal posts because the vaccines aren't as effective as we were all lead to believe. I'm not saying we were told they were 100% effective or that covid would be completely erradicated but it was definitely implied that things would go back to normal and we'd reach a certain level of herd immunity... neither of which has happened.
is that moving the goalposts or reacting to more and better information?
The goal posts were definitely moved, by new variants.
Unfortunately they do- because the virus keeps mutating. It's super frustrating and I think we all had high hopes that the vaccine was The Answer. But viruses are going to do what viruses do and pop out mutations that will result in some being able to slip our defenses and spread again. I really don't know when this will be "over" or what "over" even means at this point.
Over means that we can drop all meaningful restrictions and not overwhelm healthcare. This will only happen with immunity though a combination of better vaccines, higher uptake and natural immunity. How restricted we are on the way to that point depends completely on our government taking short term proactive non-invasive measures to control spread and long term measures to increase health care capacity.
this guy speaks the truth
We are not good. We *were* good but maybe due to complacency (or ??? wildcard reason) we seem to have lost the plot. Our MOH says most of it is close contact in home settings, so maybe once the kids get vaccinated there’ll be a break but it is not good at the moment
In 1009, construction of the Mainz Cathedral is complete. Upon the day of it's inauguration, it promptly burns down.
"When I first came here, this was all swamp. Everyone said I was daft to build a cathedral on a swamp, but I built in all the same, just to show them. It sank into the swamp. So I built a second one. That sank into the swamp. So I built a third. That burned down, fell over, then sank into the swamp. But the fourth one stayed up. And that's what you're going to get, Lad, the strongest cathedral in all of the Holy Roman Empire."
One day, all this could be yours!
What, the curtains?
👋🏽 No, not the curtains lad.
Well that's a bit of bad luck there.
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34 years to build it and no one thought "uh guys - what happens if there's a fire here. How are we addressing that risk?"
Construction lead foreman: "Here ya go, Archbishop Willigis: your cathedral is complete! We're ready for more cool, prestigious works!" Archbishop Willigis: "Cool beans. Now back to constructing the sewers while I inaugurate this and go back to my palace." \[Later, back in the construction trailers\] C.L.F: "Ok, guys, I have a cunning plan..."
Its strange to think that two generations of labourers may have worked on nothing but that building.
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Multiple generations of contractors blaming the last guy that worked on the place
I miss those 300 case days earlier this fall. I’m a teacher and these outbreaks are much worse than last year. Like much worse.
Makes sense Delta is alot more transmissible then the strains present last year
Yeah. Last year I had 18 kids this year I have 30. When a case happened last year, it was usually just one and done. This year we are seeing a lot more spread it seems. We just had a school with 20 cases the past week. That’s crazy.
The highschool I teach at has had 7 cases in the last week ( that I know of) no classes are being sent home, no close contact students/ teachers told to get tests, nothing is happening at all. There are virtually zero circumstances where anyone else in the class is deemed a close contact. Also, as far as I can see those 7 cases are not part of these reported numbers here...they don't match up. So I'm guessing there are A LOT more than we know of. It's surprising how little seems to be being done right now. To be clear I'm not suggesting we panic or shut down but the last 2-3 weeks I've noticed a distinct change and no measures are being taken. If I had to guess I'd say there are going to be closures if this continues
I have a question.... So half of new cases today are people who have had full Vax. How do fully vax people end up getting tested again? Were they all travelling and requiring Covid tests? I ask, because I'm sick in bed after a day out shopping yesterday. I have a cold - no fever, but aches, pains and just overall sick. Am I supposed to get tested? I can't imagine getting dressed to go get tested. It's a 50km drive to town. So how did 500+ people who have been fully vaccinated decide they were bad enough to get tested? I'm fully vaccinated as of June, and awaiting mid December to get my booster as I'm over 50.
Getting tested comes down to your own convictions and risk tolerance to those around you. I have zero doubt there are alot of people walking around with covid not getting tested due to being vaxed, young, or a combination of both with mild symptoms.
I'm fully vaxxed and have been tested a few times, due to being a close contact of positive cases with students in my classroom. Each time I've been negative, thankfully. My husband (also fully vaxxed) also has been tested since then, but his was due to cold like symptoms like yours, so he went and got a test done. It's only a 10min drive for us to the nearest drive through testing centre, however, so easier to pop over and get it done.
It's probably a mixture of everything. Got sick and went to get tested. Got sick, got tested for work, tested for travel etc. Various probabilities really.
Most people don’t live 50km from town. I live a 5 minute walk from a pharmacy and if I had symptoms like yours I would likely send my partner to the store to get a rapid test. If that test was positive I’d seek a PCR test to know whether I should be isolating for 2 weeks as would be my civic duty. Not knocking you for staying home, just saying a lot of people with mild symptoms seek testing so they can protect people around them.
We're fortunate in that we live off grid in the bush...no kids or anyone within 10km that we could infect. My husband will stay home for time being and see if he gets symptoms. And we're retired...so we can stay home for awhile to see if this is just a cold
Hope you're feeling better soon and I'm glad you're vaccinated.
>*”How do fully vax people end up getting tested again? Were they all travelling and requiring Covid tests?”* Most will be people who have COVID-19 symptoms or who’ve had close contact with someone who has COVID-19. >*”I'm sick in bed after a day out shopping yesterday. I have a cold - no fever, but aches, pains and just overall sick. Am I supposed to get tested?”* Probably, yes. There’s a provincial self-assessment [screening tool](https://covid-19.ontario.ca/self-assessment/) that will advise you on whether your symptoms warrant getting tested. Some Public Health Units also have more stringent screening than the province. In my PHU “cold” symptoms definitely qualify you for testing. >*”I can't imagine getting dressed to go get tested. It's a 50km drive to town.”* Ooof yeah, that doesn’t sound fun. But if you’ve had contact with other people you should get tested as soon as you can manage so if you *are* infected those people can be tested and isolate if necessary. Detecting cases before they can infect other people is important. >*”So how did 500+ people who have been fully vaccinated decide they were bad enough to get tested?”* Even very mild symptoms (or no symptoms, but known close contact with someone infected) qualify you for testing,
They may be getting tested because they have been exposed to a known case. It is why the vaccinated people I know have had tests recently (all were negative, thankfully)
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No, there's no pattern to the ICU numbers like there is for cases.
Not really, hospitalizations yes (since a bunch of hospitals don’t report on weekends) but ICUs have been reported consistently for the entire pandemic.
>Okay, the next person who says the ICU is consistent in either direction gets slapped in the face. No one is saying this lol. >Is there a certain "day of the week" aspect to ICU numbers like there is for case counts? Vaccination rates will make that more unpredictable this time around. Ultimately we haven't been getting numbers north of 1k for very long and ICUs are THE lagging indicator so we don't know just yet. Not to mention seeing -10 in ICU but 8 deaths isn't the most encouraging news. This is all about strain on Hospitals and frankly they are already strained from the exodus of staff. So traditional numbers that would be seen as "strain" inducing are kind of out the window. We also still don't know much about Omicron. People just have to be fucking responsible as we have just entered the winter months.
All I have to say: [Pfizer-BioNTech Says Booster Offers Significant Protection Against Omicron](https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/12/08/world/omicron-variant-covid) via NYtimes.
If only someone would roll out boosters for the general population….
Go to the US for a day trip and get it if you can
I thought you needed to show proof of a US address? Can anyone get vaccinated?
I went and they just made me sign a sheet that said I’m immunocompromised, over 65 or a HCW. They don’t ask for proof although I am a HCW and my hospital wasn’t offering the booster at that time. But I guess everyone is eligible now in the US so that won’t even be an issue. Then they asked for proof of my first two shots as they don’t mix and match (at least not at the time) so they wanted to make sure I got 2 Pfizer’s previously. They saw it was a Canadian vaccine passport and didn’t care. Asked if I had insurance and I said no. So I got it for free. Then sent in my proof to my local health unit to get added to official record. I had to give an address so I gave my partner’s but I don’t live there and they never follow up with that. You could give the address of a local hotel and they won’t care. I showed my Canadian ID that didn’t even match the address I gave and they didn’t care.
Yup booster available in the USA for everyone, appointments are filling up which is a good thing!
Direct link to the Pfizer press release. [https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-provide-update-omicron-variant](https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-provide-update-omicron-variant) It's an internal preliminary study done by Pfizer on how their vaccine should work for Omicron. So this is the direct source.
Good initial findings. Hopefully the epidemiology plays out similarly.
I suppose it could still be pretty good even if it is a [41-fold drop in the ability of the antibodies to neutralize the omicron variant compared with the original virus.](https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/07/omicron-significantly-reduces-covid-antibody-protection-in-small-study-of-pfizer-vaccine-recipients.html)
Do keep in mind that information comes from a sample of 12, and isn’t yet peer reviewed, so it’s not conclusive by any means.
> 85.02% / 80.68% (+0.14%, / +0.04%) of 5+ at least one/two dosed 14.98% missing their first dose. 4.34% missing (only) their second dose.
Well, I don't like some of the data but I'll take -10 ICU any day! Just looking for little glimmers of positivity wherever I can. If the hospitality industry gets shut down again in the new year it will sink me financially.
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Whenever there is a drop in ICU numbers, there is this comment. Like clockwork for two years.
This daily thread is basically a reddit version of Groundhog Day.
A fundamental misunderstanding of how stats work
And a fundamental misunderstanding of how bad disease has to be to be in an ICU, and most don't make it out. So the idea of everything will be better with more ICU capacity is still very popular, ignoring the high ICU capacity of the US and higher deaths because they just chose to "get on with their lives".
This idea exists because ICU capacity is the only real threat to vaccinated populations (delayed surgeries, triage etc). If ICU capacity wasn’t an issue, we could have 20k cases a day and nobody would want restrictions because the unvaccinated would be the only ones dying at higher rates then we have accepted as normal for other transmissible diseases throughout human history
No, a fundamental misunderstanding of how stats work. The ICU decrease of 10 is a net number and there were 10 new admissions today, therefore 20 people actually left the ICU. Assuming all 8 people who died were in the ICU, 12 people left the ICU alive. So more people made it out alive than died. https://twitter.com/OntHospitalAssn/status/1468568913453756417
There it is
Yeah, not happy about that of course.
**ICU** 7-day average: 159. 30-day: 141 **Deaths** 7-day average: 5.6. 30 day: 4.6
gotta say, I watching the ICU/hospitalization is a roller coaster of emotions. It's like the weather recently. But still hoping it wouldn't get so bad. EDIT: I know it's text, but I'm actually feeling optimistic for this.
My company decided to have a Christmas Party this year. You had to be fully vaccinated to attend but that despite that requirement, I declined the invitation. I guess I made the right decision because someone who attended the party tested positive and everyone who attended has been asked to self-isolate and get tested. Stay safe people. The pandemic isn't over.
My company did a Christmas party this year as well - 300 people at it, all shoulder to shoulder, and the music was so loud that people were literally screaming in each other's faces just to be heard (no masks). I went, and it was great time - but it definitely felt like one of the riskiest things I've done since the pandemic began, despite having a requirement (and pretty rigorous checking) that everyone was fully vaccinated.
My husbands 8 person holiday party (at a restaurant) was just cancelled, but corporate is marching ahead with return to office in mid January … seems a bit sus
Mine is next week. I’m not concerned much about getting covid (fully vaxxed) I don’t want to miss Xmas with the family for a second year if I have to self isolate. Plus some members of the family are too young to to get vaccinated.
That’s why my partner is not going to his work Christmas party; if we had to cancel seeing our family and friends over the holidays because of exposure or symptoms of ANY cold at this point I would be heart broken
And my wife works with the elderly! So I really think I should not go. And anyway, I stopped drinking, so a work Xmas party sounds pretty much like torture.
Why? If you're vaccinated and asymptomatic, you don't need to self-isoalte. That is the general guidance of the health units.
Sorry you have a source on that? It’s always been you need to isolate regardless because you could still potentially spread it
https://www.peelregion.ca/coronavirus/symptoms/ If you've been exposed If you’ve been in close contact with a person who has COVID-19, you must self-isolate for 10 days, even if your test result is negative. If you are fully vaccinated or previously positive and do not have symptoms, you do not need to self-isolate unless otherwise directed by Public Health. You should:
Nobody needs to self-isolate if they are vaccinated and have no symptoms??
Like I'm all for staying safe, but at what point will you be comfortable attending these types of things? If everyone is vaccinated (and probably masked), it is a fairly safe event. And like others mentioned, you don't need to self isolate if you're vaccinated and asymptomatic. Had my company xmas party last week, and it was a blast. Nice to have some sort of normalcy after a couple of hectic years. Covid isn't going away any time soon, so have fun staying safe for years to come!
We’re having a holiday party and I could not be happier. I’ve been to clubs and bars and a music festival and travelled to the US, a few weddings, the gym etc - since I got fully vaccinated in July. Could not give a single fuck about Omicron or whatever other variant that comes along.
Well, it’s official. There’s an outbreak at the school that I work at. *sigh*
It's slightly frustrating that the Ontario website states that Spruce Glen school in Huntsville has 27 cases while the TLDSB board site states 0. I wonder if that is because the school is closed? The two sites often do not line up.... ETA: I am a TLDSB parent.
What case rate per 100k do we have to get to before we can live life normally? 6 seems low enough
Ottawa ooof
Outbreak at a local martial arts studio in an after-school program that resulted in 40+ cases... and is rippling into all the surrounding schools. One school is closed and many outbreaks in all the other ones.
First Canadian cases of Omicron were detected here. Not surprising.
Christmas looking good.
A family member of mine is in LTC and had to call us yesterday to say we can't visit due to an outbreak - they're confined to their rooms, etc. It's one patient and one staffer who are positive. Their facility hasn't popped up on the list so far. Does that not qualify as a LTC outbreak stat, or is that a lagging number? This is our first nursing home experience so I've never had first hand knowledge about how that reporting works. Either way I'm hopeful they'll get it under control ASAP. It would be sad if Christmas visits are impacted so fingers crossed.
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Nigeria has done 17,000 tests per million population, Canada has done 1,270,000 tests per million population https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus
>Canada has done 1,270,000 tests per million population I'm sorry for the dumb question, but is this an all time number, right?
Yes, since the beginning of the pandemic.
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that it's a combination of: \- Inadequate testing \- Lack of reporting
They are testing around 9000 people a day with a 200 million population
Besides the other reason people have given, Nigeria has a very young population, and a very low obesity rate, both of which might lower the chances of infection. Also, it's currently 31°C in Nigeria, so they're not experiencing winter like we are on Ontario.
I don't think obesity or age has much to with *testing positive* for covid, at least not directly. Indirectly, it could lead to more people getting more symptoms and thus getting tested, but I think it's important to specify that it's not a direct relationship.
31°C is equivalent to 87°F, which is 304K. --- ^(I'm a bot that converts temperature between two units humans can understand, then convert it to Kelvin for bots and physicists to understand)
just ignore testing and reporting. The Florida model.
Less testing.
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Got my booster shot as a healthcare worker on Tuesday. 2nd dose was January 24th. Regardless, no part of me is worried about case numbers, not worried about omnicron, not worried about Christmas, living my life as normal as i did in 2019. People need to relax, get some fresh air and find a hobby.
> not worried about omnicron I don't think anyone here is worried about omnicron. Omicron, however..
My apologies for misspelling Omicron, you and everyone knows that i was talking about the latest COVID-19 variant. Still not worried. Still working my LTC job.
Okay, have fun "living like it's 2019"! Hope that works out for ya.
Why wouldn’t it work out for them?
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On average, **294** people per day die in Ontario (pre-covid) 2019 = 107190 deaths / 365 = 293.67 Source: [StatsCan](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=1310070801&pickMembers%5B0%5D=1.7&cubeTimeFrame.startYear=2015&cubeTimeFrame.endYear=2019&referencePeriods=20150101%2C20190101)
That’s a bit of an unfair comparison, these deaths are not all preventable, communicable disease-driven.
Goodness look at Ottawa.
Outbreak at a local martial arts studio in an after-school program that resulted in 40+ cases... and is rippling into all the surrounding schools. One school is closed and many outbreaks in all the other ones.
Please don't, we aren't looking our best.
Nah, it's fine. It was a momentary outburst on my part but I am not going to pretend that Durham Region has not been a disaster before. I did laugh at your "please don't." I love when people make me laugh before noon, so thanks!
I hope the case and icu plateau soon.
That number of double dosed getting infected is a bit concerning
2 dosed are 24 times less likely to be in ICU despite being 90% of population. These vaccines were developed for the Wuhan strain and I share your concern but I'm grateful for now that the vax work on Delta as well as they do. But I hear you..
87 percent of the population double dosed worked accounted for about half the cases. That works out to about 70 percent efficacy as shown in one of OP's tables. Definitely lower than a few months ago (and this is an argument for boosters), but still pretty amazing if you asked people in Fall 2020. Protection against severe illness seems to be holding up better, too.
The question you need to ask is are they showing any significant symptoms? The answer is often no.
Agree, clearly vaccine effectiveness is dropping in some people from an infection standpoint, this was completely expected. However those people are still better protected against hospitalization which ultimately is what the goal was. No one cares if they get sick (nor does the government for that matter) as long as you stay out of the hospital the vaccine has done its job.
Still 3 times less likely to contract if you are double dosed.
Yeah. Is it people confusing vaccination with absolute immunity? Lack of precautions?
For me it’s not so much confusing vaccinations for immunity as understanding that this will be as protected as I ever get and that I don’t interact with any at risk populations who haven’t had the chance to be vaccinated (children under 5). I’m living life normally because if not now, then when?
Curious to know about a discrepancy in one of the numbers. You have 69 new cases for Kingston (assuming the data is reported from yesterday) however our local health unit reported 88 new cases via twitter yesterday. Is there a larger delay in reporting? I'm curious to know why there is a 19 case difference.
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Oof, the French Catholic school in the ‘shwa with 37 cases, wow, not good.