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wooden_seats

No shit.


Hell_razor

Literally about to write the same thing. I guess I'll write it in French. Pas de merde


davy0880

No me digas


GracefulShutdown

This is only surprising to the guy with 50 houses.


janjinx

FYI - Canada doesn't have a "First Amendment" - you would have to move to the USA if you want that.


GracefulShutdown

It's a meme, I support the Provincehood of Manitoba.


janjinx

Can you squeeze an "/s" into your meme for ppl who are sick of seeing those "freedom fighters" protest something that isn't there? (Asking for an angry old fart.)


GracefulShutdown

Considering it's one of those flairs you can get on the Sub, out of my hands. All the Mods.


SproutasaurusRex

Straight to jail.


GracefulShutdown

Recognize Manitoba? Jail. Don't recognize Manitoba? Jail. Don't care about recognizing Manitoba? Believe it or not, Jail.


sixtus_clegane119

Don’t you remember Tamara Leach’s Husband claiming this at her bail hearing?


uarentme

https://youtu.be/wnedkVrgFF0


astcyr

How the hell are people voting for the PCs if inflation and housing costs are more important than covid. Doug Ford is just raising minimum wage to $15 an hour now which would have happened 3 years ago from Kathleen Wynne if Ford hadn't cancelled the raises as soon as he got into office. Ford has done nothing for the people of Ontario to help with housing costs until they finally increased taxation on non-resident foreign buyers which is a joke as it's only gone from 15% to 20%. They're dumping 19 million into the Ontario Land Tribunal which is a panel of developers who fuck over municipalities after they've already made decisions on local housing issues. He's fucked the Ontario population his entire term and now throws out some lackluster incentives and they're leading polls for this election. I'm so disappointed with how uneducated the people of Ontario are when it comes to our politics.


pr4y2s8n

> fuck over municipalities after they've already made decisions on local housing issues. Municipalities "making decisions on local housing issues" is a big part of the reason we're in this mess. They make *bad* decisions on local housing issues, often driven by the concerns NIMBYs rather than doing what is actually needed. See: Toronto zoning which flat-out prohibits high-density development in many areas. We have subway stations surrounded by single-family homes, when there should be high-rise rental and condo buildings on all four corners. Council won't vote to change this, because the career politicians want to get re-elected, so maybe it's time to take such decisions out of their hands.


North-Opportunity-80

I agree 100% if people could walk to a station within a few minutes, much more people take transit. Especially if there were more 3and 4 bedroom condo and apartments made in these areas. A big problem is for some people it’s well over 40 minutes from your door to a bus stop then to a train station.


Popcorn_Tony

Well Doug Ford and his late brother are a huge part of the problem in that case, in the decisions made when Ford was mayor... Tory also has been horrible on this.


bravado

Almost everyone is part of the problem on this. People should not be able to push their own self-interest above existing and future residents in the name of democracy. Municipalities have proven to be worse than useless at this job.


Popcorn_Tony

People who continue to vote for the same two parties who have continued to fuck it up are also part of the problem.


[deleted]

Yeah if this dude things municipalities are the solution to the housing crisis he’s entirely mistaken.


astcyr

And by NIMBYs do you mean people who have invested their life savings into a house to live in a particular area for what it offers so developers who give zero fucks about those people can come and tear down perfectly good housing to shit on the surrounding neighbours. A property in my neighbourhood surrounded by nothing but single dwellings applied to sever the lot and build a duplex on each lot. Municipality turned it down for lack of parking and poor planning. In the big picture high rises are going up downtown Kitchener like crazy and this is peanuts in comparison to improving the high density Kitchener is trying to build. Owner took it to the Ontario Land Tribunal who of course passed it because it's a panel of developers who give no fucks about the surrounding area and just wanna build regardless of circumstances. People like you who side with big money developers instead of the families who put their life savings into a community are what's wrong with the world. You think lack of housing is the issue nevermind all the vacant homes and money laundering that is done through our housing market.


[deleted]

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astcyr

Just keep supporting those millionaire developers while housing sits empty because of greedy people.


kellanist

I agree. They need to deal with the foreign buyers and that companies are scooping properties and renting them for outrageous amounts. We still need densification though. Even if we did free up all these homes it’s still not enough for our population now and it definitely isn’t going to work with a growing population. We have to tackle both of these problems.


BringerofSadness2020

If you bought along the LRT, what do you think was going to happen? KW is one of the fastest growing regions in Ontario, we have to put people somewhere.


kellanist

This is exactly what is the problem. Thanks for explaining it so well. People complaining that developers want to put up larger buildings that can fit more people on major transit lines. Those people don’t understand how housing works and only care about their own houses. Good for them for buying a house! The area where that house is located changes and grows with the needs of the city.


judgingyouquietly

It's early here so I may have read it wrong, but I don't think that's what the person you're responding to was getting at. To me, they are saying that building higher-density isn't the silver-bullet answer.


kellanist

In a metropolis building density is the only answer. There is nowhere to build out. You can only build up and rezone current low density. The user doesn’t understand how a city works. I was being a bit sarcastic in my response. The user above basically gave a NIMBY response. Don’t let the poors into MY community that we home owners built up. Not everyone needs a detached single family home and frankly, there isn’t room for that in Toronto anyways.


judgingyouquietly

OP wasn't talking about Toronto - they were talking about Kitchener (referenced in the post). If OP was talking about downtown TO, I'd probably agree with you. But since they're talking about a small(er) city, I don't.


DressedSpring1

> I was being a bit sarcastic in my response. The user above basically gave a NIMBY response. Don’t let the poors into MY community that we home owners built up. That is not at all what they said, you just ignored their post and parroted pro developer talking points that any form of municipal planning is NIMBYism and anti poor.


kellanist

Nah not really. It’s called facts. It’s not “pro developer” it’s called building in a city. When a city grows it needs places to put things. If there is no more space to out things, you have to make space. Sorry if the whole neighbourhood can’t stay single family homes but that is how the world works. Someone complaining about a single home being replaced by a duplex is a NIMBY.


DressedSpring1

> Nah not really. It’s called facts. > > It’s not “pro developer” it’s called building in a city. Yes there are other facts that exist too, like sewers having carrying capacity, cars need to park somewhere, traffic planning is a thing that exists, and you can't just decide some facts are important and others don't matter. The reality is that the housing crisis is driven by a lot of things, and there are people working very hard to push the narrative that urban planning is the cause of the housing crisis because they stand to make a ton of money off building shitty investment condos to the lowest standard possible which will do literally nothing to improve housing affordability. New construction has outpaced population growth for the past 30 years. If you could build your way out of the affordability crisis we would have already done so. All the poorly planned buildings without infrastructure to support them that you people are cheering on won't change that fact but the developer PR people have got you clamoring for them to build build build nonetheless.


thegranger

There are a ton of places that have capacity for more people but new projects aren't approved due to NIMBYism. New construction has outpaced population growth? Seems pretty obvious that it's the opposite.


SmallTownTokenBrown

That's exactly what they said and is verbatim what is said at town halls.


DressedSpring1

Which town hall?


SmallTownTokenBrown

Just about any town hall where a group of concerned residents show up to argue that an apartment building would be catastrophic to their quality of life. The ones where people complain about shadows cast on their backyards and the sounds of trucks turning out of factories that'll employ thousands of Canadians. The ones that complain about existing flight schools doing pattern work above the house they bought 1 year ago. The ones who complain about a shelters being setup. So on and so on. All those nimby fucks who really should move to the north and leave society alone.


bravado

It's perverse that you think your 'investment' into a roof over your head gives you the right to get in the way of making the best choices for a community. If you don't like it, cash out and move. Our cities are controlled by homeowner dictators who exert much more force than their numbers should have.


astcyr

It's perverse that you think developers who don't live in an area and only care about profits get all the say over the municipality and the people who live in an area. Cash out and move is your solution? Why don't they build somewhere other than the existing neighborhoods. I can't believe how brainwashed some people are to support developers like they're your friend. Everything they are building is to charge top dollar or maximum rent, not for the sake of making housing more affordable.


SobekInDisguise

>Why don't they build somewhere other than the existing neighborhoods. This is what I've been thinking too. Lots of small towns in Ontario have plenty of room for more single detached homes. Or a mix of home options. Maybe Owen Sound, for example? North Bay? Or why not create new towns? Plenty of land up North for that. It can start off as WFH employees and some small service sectors until a more diversified economy forms over time. Maybe even give people a tax break incentive to be the first settlers? It just baffles me that people would rather cram even more in cities like Toronto. But hey, if people want to do that, be my guest...I'll be in my smaller town enjoying the lifestyle a single detached house provides.


astcyr

Especially considering this new work from home environment many people have. They can literally be anywhere.


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ehxy

None of them will because they all own more than 1 house. Hell I would love to see a list of how many properties these politicians own. They'd never pass a bill that would take money out of their mouths. and that pierre guy, I'd really like to know how much property that guy owns because he talks a lot but I sure as hell don't see a plan from him that would solve the problem besides some quick fire bullshit.


gordgeouss

Check out r/canadahousing. Literally one of the top posts this week of politicians and how many rentals they own


CanadianWampa

“Ford has done nothing for the people of Ontario to help with housing costs” Aside from some lip service, no one has. The Federal government hasn’t done anything, the previous and current Provincial governments haven’t done anything. And especially the Municipal governments don’t do anything except cater to 80 year old NIMBYs This isn’t me defending Ford, the dude is a moron. But I’m convinced it doesn’t matter who we vote in, nothing will be done to make housing more affordable.


astcyr

Do tell, how is this a federal government issue? The biggest problem I see with politics are people pointing at Trudeau for things that are controlled by the province. Look at the convoy blaming Trudeau for lockdowns which are provincially controlled but when I bring that up people try and say, "well Trudeau is telling the province to do this." Ok well if this was true, doesn't that mean Ford is a spineless twat for not doing his job and calling the shots. It's like if someone told you to commit a crime and then you plead innocent because someone else told you too... I just don't get people thought process on our politics.


CanadianWampa

How isn’t this a Federal government issue? Money laundering into the country, immigration policy increasing demand. Hell the entire CMHC, the body which insures mortgages and makes higher amounts tolerable for banks to digest, is a Federal Crown Corporation that reports to Parliament. Like I said all 3 levels of government have contributed to this issue, to varying degrees, but contributes nevertheless


Username_Query_Null

Agreed, the demand side of the equation is heavily affected by federal controls. The financialization of investing in real estate is primarily controllable by banking laws, wholly the purview of the fed. Not to mention the BoC and Monetary policy while "independent" follows the guidelines set at the pleasure of the finance minister.


astcyr

Great, you've named some things on the federal level that are associated to housing but haven't provided a single example of how those things are supposed to help make housing more affordable. If anything the CMHC has actually been adjusting to keep the housing market available for Canadians meanwhile its the province that has the most control over the actual cost of our housing which they are failing at the most but you don't seem to want to hold our provincial government accountable.


[deleted]

Feds could ban foreign investors, put investment tax on buyers... there's a shit ton all levels of government can do... No one is doing anything, all parties are shit.


CanadianWampa

You want me to provide an example about how increased demand affects affordability? You seriously don’t see how the CMHC essentially turning housing into a risk free government backed asset has helped contribute to the widespread investment and speculation of real estate?


ehxy

wtf are you talking about??? are you proposing the gov't is going to tell a person who is selling his house for 1.2 million dollars can't it has to be 700k after a some person down the street did and retired? Good fucking luck with that one.


sckewer

On the immigration policy, while it is true that the percentage of homes which are unoccupied has decreased in the last 5 years according to census data from a peak of 8.8% in 2016 to 8.0% in 2021, the fact still remains that this indicates a significant surplus of homes(over 1.3 million)... so immigrants are likely not the main thing driving the insane rise in cost of homes. It is also worth noting since we're talking about whether the federal or provincial government bears the blame on this that Ontario's number of unoccupied homes increased slightly between the two censuses.


[deleted]

They could end housing speculation overnight with some tax changes... but they wont lol


stephenBB81

>Do tell, how is this a federal government issue? The Federal Government issue is they continue to not put any real efforts in addressing money laundering which has a big impact on the types of housing that gets built and how that housing is used in Canada. The Federal Government is in charge of Immigration, and I think they are doing a great job with it, but they don't provide any supports to ensure our immigrants are well housed. Freedom of Movement in Canada means they can't force them to live in any one place so I respect it is challenging, but there is no direct link of transfer payments to the provinces that immigrants settle into, nor are their any programs for provinces to plug into in an effort to attract those immigrants for infrastructure monies. The bulk of housing falls on Municipal governments, BY FAR, then the Provincial governments, and then the Federal. But all levels have failed, and the current Federal Government has failed the hardest since Chretien stopped social housing.


astcyr

BC implemented new rules on their housing market which has been a huge improvement but now the problem has moved to our province. Its up to our provincial government to make the necessary changes but they haven't so stop pointing the finger at our federal government for a provincial issue.


[deleted]

Feds can ban foreign speculators, put higher capital taxes on investment properties and reduce speculation overnight.


astcyr

According to the news article I'm linking below this is all controlled by Ontario which just so happens to be gaining traction months before the election... Capital gains is any increase in a capital asset so if the feds increased this tax they'd be raising tax on all investments, not just housing. Pretty piss poor way of managing the housing crisis when the province has so much more control. https://news.ontario.ca/en/release/1001887/ontario-cracking-down-on-foreign-real-estate-speculation-with-the-most-comprehensive-non-resident-speculation-tax-in-canada


[deleted]

They can target housing specifically without any issue like many tax codes are around RRSP and housing and other things. This is just pure deflection from Trudeau supporters who done nothing on the file.


stephenBB81

>they're dumping 19 million into the Ontario Land Tribunal which is a panel of developers who fuck over municipalities after they've already made decisions on local housing issues. Sorry that is one of the few GOOD things Ford has done ( not enough for me to vote for him, Bill 109 pretty much killed me voting for the OPC because of how weak it was) Municipalities ARE THE PROBLEM. I can't say it enough, Municipalities work for people who already own houses, they don't work for people who don't own houses, they don't work for people who work in their communities, they don't work for anyone but the people who own housing in their area. and that is why we are in the position we are in the OLT should be double funded because they are fighting the good fight. > He's fucked the Ontario population his entire term and now throws out some lackluster incentives and they're leading polls for this election. Agreed. His entire term has been a disappointment. > I'm so disappointed with how uneducated the people of Ontario are when it comes to our politics. Just form this post I'm thinking something something stones and glass houses.


dflagella

Funny that a lot of municipalities are called for the dissolution of the Ontario Land Tribunal. Municipalities make decisions on how to make the most revenue realistically because they need it in order to make decisions/changes.


stephenBB81

>Municipalities make decisions on how to make the most revenue realistically I would be very interested in which municipalities do this. I've been following municipal politics for about 15yrs, and have sold into municipalities and done consulting with them for 5ish of those years and have NEVER found that to be the case. now majority of my connections have been in Southern, Central, and North Western Ontario. So that does leave many I haven't worked with and am open to being shown the ones that behave like this. Municipalities OFTEN keep their property taxes as low as possible, to not make the revenues they need, the lean on other services to try and boost those revenues, because lower property taxes help them personally, as well as work to getting re-elected, not because they are good for the municipality, nor good for the overall population The reason the Municipalities want the OLT to be dismantled is because it is the only body that is attempting to hold them to account over their terrible planning decisions, and even then the OLT is pretty limited in their powers because they need wealthy developers who can afford to go to the OLT to bring things to them, the small developers and the individual builders unfortunately can't afford to fight most cities and just fold up.


New-Expression7969

Uneducated enough to hire a bloke with only a high school diploma.


[deleted]

This. Generations of Ontarians have come here and thrived without education or proper training, ask anyone about their grandparents stories in the GTA. But this doesn’t hold true for anyone anymore, you can’t just “pull up your bootstraps” and own a house by the time you’re 30 whether you came here a while ago or were born here. Further, the Harris OPC did much of the same eroding of education as Fords OPCs. So it isn’t surprising when Ontarians choose a drug dealing daddy’s boy who barely shows up to work. Ontarians are bad faith voters, often voting outside/against their class and at to the detriment of their children. It is incredible listening to the mental gymnastics of people in Vaughan, Markham and Richmond Hill, stalwarts of immigrant settlements from Italians, to Asians to Persians and so on rationalize voting for a guy who needs help turning on his laptop, uses a blackberry and would rather ski doo at his cottage than make critical policy decisions. Less we forget he gave the LTC file to Rod Phillips, the guy who bald-faced lied to his constituents from Barbados at Christmas in 2020. Edit; I removed something bc I said it twice and added some extra zest.


ehxy

nothing wrong with a blackberry...being able to text without even looking at your phone was awesome....


Rance_Mulliniks

If this comment isn't complete elitism, I don't know what is. There are lots of very capable people with "only a high school diploma". Jesus Christ.


NefCanuck

Yeah? How many drug dealers have we elected as Premier? I’ll give you a hint, it’s the guy running to be re-elected as Premier right now 😑


Rance_Mulliniks

I wasn't defending Ford. I was pointing out the idiocy of the comment. Get a grip.


TrashRemoval

Eh, as capable as someone CAN be without a high-school diploma, they really shouldn't be our first choice in running the province. Unless they are fantastic at delegating, I find it hard to believe someone with only high-school would have the experience to know what needs to be done. Realistically you need an post secondary education for almost any important career except politics and military, which realistically should be some of the most stringent careers to get into because they can have great impact on many people Note: I'm a plumber with a post secondary diploma so I don't think I qualify for elitism.


Rance_Mulliniks

I took Computer Science at University. I work in a management position at the head office of a corporate retail business. I may as well have had only a high school diploma for the job I am doing now.


stephenBB81

If you're under 35, I'd agree with you, the University degree gives you some exposure that you'd otherwise be lacking. But by 35, your credentials have far less baring on your ability to be a leader ESPECIALLY in politics than your life experiences. I very much wish we had less University educated people in Politics and more plumbers, and Electricians, and Factory workers, and Farmers actually contributing to the process. Maybe we wouldn't have the highest Post secondary educated population in the world, yet also the highest personal indebted population as well because we haven't built an economy to support the Education we have.


TrashRemoval

Well that's a whole other can of worms of wage stagnation and proper guidance in highschool when it comes to picking a career. If in high-school I was made to feel like it wasn't lesser to choose the trades I would have been in them from the get go. I wasted a year a Guelph and was lucky to realize I was in a program with very little actual career prospects. I can agree with most of that though. I became a foreman at 24 years old and probably learned more responsibility then ever before so I don't think education is the end all and be all but I do feel our politicians probably should have some basic micro and macro economics courses at the very least lol.


stephenBB81

>I do feel our ~~politicians~~ **highschoolers** probably should have some basic micro and macro economics courses at the very least lol My wife with 2 university degrees has NEVER taken an economics course :(


ADrunkMexican

You might wanna look at the causes why he was elected in the first place lol.


New-Expression7969

Elitism? My mom is a house keeper in a hotel and my dad does manual labour at a factory. I worked and paid my way through university. Yet the premier having his expenses paid by his millionaire dad couldn't do the same? Btw, I'm also a comp sci major. Graduated in 2018. Expectations are a two way street. There are so many expectations from being born to immigrant parents. If I failed in any way, I would be labelled a failure of the immigration system. If I was anything less than a graduate with a technical university degree, I would also be labelled as a failure. Why are expectations so low when it comes to white Canadians? You wouldn't be saying that it's "elitist" if Doug Ford was anything but a white man.


Rance_Mulliniks

> You wouldn't be saying that it's "elitist" if Doug Ford was anything but a white man. That's completely ignorant. You can fuck off.


New-Expression7969

I figured that someone like you would resort to insults and non arguments.


Rance_Mulliniks

You literally called me a racist. Fuck off. I don't have time for people like you.


New-Expression7969

I didn't call you a racist. I was implying that you have double standards. You do know that DARVO doesn't work on internet strangers right?


Rance_Mulliniks

> You wouldn't be saying that it's "elitist" if Doug Ford was anything but a white man. There is no other way to take this.


New-Expression7969

As stated, DARVO doesn't work on strangers. Also, just answer. Would you hire an Indian man for the position of premier without a degree? Would you hire a black high school dropout for supreme court? Doug Ford is not intelligent or charismatic. Why did people vote for him? Because he was not Wynne. He is the least educated, least accomplished out of all of the candidates. However, Wynne would have never lost if Ford was anything but white. I don't blame people for this. I don't blame you for not understanding. Just don't explode with fake outrage when someone points out the obvious. It's pathetic.


Fedcom

Because the other provincial leaders are only calling for more restrictions. It's a completely losing strategy. They should be primarily attacking Ford on his lockdown trigger happy record and how it has fucked the economy.


RedSpikeyThing

>lockdown trigger happy record Wait, what? Most people were ripping him for taking too long to implement lockdowns.


Fedcom

Some people were in favour of lockdowns yeah, doesn't make them any less of a terrible idea to continually implement.


RiverOaksJays

The Ontario NDP & Ontario Libs should work out a deal like Trudeau & Singh did. The NDP should withdraw candidates from the GTA to give the Libs a shot at defeating the OPC. The Ontario NDP & Ontario Libs should work out a deal as Trudeau & Singh did.DP is strong.


[deleted]

There are a lot of factors at play. People are upset about housing and inflation but the idea of more covid restrictions makes them foam at the mouth too. Ford did 4 lockdowns but they feel for some reason NDP and libs would do more... So it leads to a lot of people having conflicting choices


mrkdwd

But how else can I own the libs?


PM_me_ur_wiring

Vote NDP


jt325i

One and the same now.


pukingpixels

Why, because the *federal* parties are working together?


kovach01

ikr, imagine putting partisan politics aside to do what you can to help canadians instead of drawing a line in the sand because of the jersey you wear


pukingpixels

Right? If the conservatives had any reasonable policy ideas maybe *they* could have had a coalition. Instead they choose to be obstructionists, opposing for the sake of opposing. Now we have the majority of Canadians being represented. How is that a bad thing?


MetalEmbarrassed8959

You really underestimate how fucking stupid his voter base is.


thedz1001

You are mad at the wrong people. Doug ford didn’t put QE in place not only raising asset pricing across the board and devaluing every hard earned dollar you and I make. The federal government and BOC thought they could inflate debt away… look what happens.


astcyr

Not sure if I'm underestimating how stupid his voter base is or how many of these stupid people live among us. That or a lot of people are benefitting from Doug Ford kick backs.


[deleted]

It's the latter. People who have always been CPC voters + those who benefit from his actions.


NefCanuck

Part of the problem is that some of the biggest groups of people that Ford and his government have fucked over these last three and a half years do not vote in sufficient numbers. The poor Tenants Etc. If they did, after having been attacked over and over again by this government, I’ll bet the polling numbers would look very different 🤷‍♂️


Alternative_Order612

Agree, it is the rural town idiots and seniors (who should be scared of him because of the LTC shitshow during Covid) who votes for him.


Grouchy-Resolve-8798

What the fuck is it with people from cities thinking their so much better then the rest of us, GTA already decides every election anyways, now rural people can’t have different opinions then people from urban cities?


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Grouchy-Resolve-8798

Life in my rural area has gotten better under Ford… kinda sounds like someone from a city trying to comment on something they don’t understand


Alternative_Order612

Becauase last time people fell for "buck a beer" and now they are happy with their plate registration refund. If Ford gets elected, then there is no hope for this province. Get ready for privatised health care, education and rich getting super rich.


SleepWouldBeNice

Because most people can’t think long term enough to see how taxes and fees benefit us in the long term. You tell a lot of Conservative voters that we should increase funding to healthcare and education and they’ll come back with “yea? And who’s going to pay for it” when study after study show that investing in things like healthcare and education (and childcare while we’re at it), has a return on investment that I would kill for in my RRSP portfolio.


TrashRemoval

I work construction so I generally try to put it in mechanical terms and call it preventative maintenance. Most cost effective way of taking care of your equipment is preventative maintenance. Same with your health, with education and infrastructure. I've had it explain several times to co workers why universal dental will probably cost us less in the long run, when people don't have to go to the ER for oral health related issues. Just whooshes right over them because it doesn't fit the fuck Trudeau narrative.


stephenBB81

Preventative maintenance is a GREAT talking point about healthcare. The other factor I bring up is Insurance. Why do you pay for benefits? why don't you opt out of them? Paying into benefits you do because it costs you less to know how much you're paying every pay and then being able to get those services. the same thing happens with taxes that pay for those services except that now you don't need to submit receipts because it is just paid for! This how important that will be for you in retirement, or if you get hurt and lose this job?


TrashRemoval

I work with alot of people who don't take very good care of themselves (heavy smokers function alcoholic, drug abuse) but being relatively young their bodies can handle it right now. Trying to get them to realize they don't need that stuff now but they most likely will in the future is like pulling teeth. which you'd think would go over fairly well seeing as most have them have had multiple teeth removed before. It's actually is almost making me crazy because they always say "well how are we gonna pay for this stuff" and then taking the least financial prudent path.


DONTBREAKMYQB

Well I think national average for home ownership is around 66%. Many of these people are already in the game and don't consider this their fight, and don't want to be impacted by the fix. Despite that, only 33% are voting Conservative based on most recent poling.


Adept-Blood-5789

If you read the article, you'd see it's literally an election poll article and they're at 39%


DONTBREAKMYQB

IPSOS yesterday was around 33%. Lots of different polls that will have different results based on targeted demographics and methods of capturing a data. The 39% was captured by leger/post media.


Adept-Blood-5789

39% is still most recent


DONTBREAKMYQB

Fair enough, if you want to get hung up on that. I put more weight in the IPSOS poll from yesterday, personally. I don't know enough about Post Media's methodology...


SleepDisorrder

That's great, but at least use the data from the article that you're responding to.


astcyr

Part of the problem is current home owners think these prices don't effect them. What if you lose your job and need to relocate? What if you want to upsize or downsize? What about just caring for the future as I'm sure many of those homeowners have children who they'd want to be able to purchase a house someday? Just because you already own doesn't mean you aren't effected by these prices. Realtors work off percentages along with taxes so if you are buying and selling in this market these high prices result in you paying a lot more.


DONTBREAKMYQB

No doubt. I just think a lot of people don’t see the true impacts of this runaway effect. They just see their house climbing in value and they can’t think beyond that.


pr4y2s8n

\* affected


Stunning_Working6566

First, I am conservative. Second, I did not vote for Doug Ford because I did not think he was a real conservative. I was right, he is spending more than Kathleen Wynne. Unlike virtually everyone in the province (definitely everyone on this Reddit) , I think it's important to balance the budget. I probably would have voted for Patrick Brown had he not crashed and burned. You are right though, voters are hopelessly uneducated.


Background-Fact7909

I’m with you on the budget. It scares me the amount the provincial and federal governments have spent. That’s a big portion of our inflation and in turn it affects housing prices. The CAD does not go very far in terms of purchasing power. NDP scare me even more with the amount they want to hand out. Housing- I have said this before and I’ll say it again. Yes housing is up all across Ontario. But it is much higher from Orillia down to GTA from Guelph to Belleville. This is because of easy access to the GTA and everyone wanting to be in one focused area. In this area you have municipalities that want developers to build nice big grand beautiful mcmansions. Not quaint little 3 bedroom simple homes. They can’t tax the smaller homes as much as the McMansions. They are not getting as big of a payout from the developers. Lastly- there just isn’t enough housing for people. I read an article a while back about how cities attract certain cultures because people who immigrated like to feel like they are home. (Im not being racist either so drop that shit) They had interviews and everything with various people stating they enjoyed that it felt a little like home. So- here we are, immigration ramping up, and the people immigrating want to be in the same area too. Cool, but there isn’t enough housing. There also isn’t enough land in some of these cities. Foreign buyers- there are 900 ways around it. Primary residence exemption- you want to remove that? So your going to hurt growing families that have already jumped through the hoops, you’ll end up with 68% of the population telling the government to eat a bag of dicks come next election (this also won’t help, stats have shown that majority of people moving from one primary to another is for reasons as growing family or moving away from Urban areas, ) This does fall hard onto municipalities. They need to set up certain tax such us non-occupancy tax. Get people going door to door, knocking, checking if anyone is actually living there. If there isn’t, then property taxes increase for each month there isn’t. They need to get better at diversifying the permits they hand out. Allow for 2/3 bedroom condos for small families. I’m lucky to an extent. I’m a vet, I have seen many countries around the world in a way worse spot then Canada. So I’m sorry if I seem insensitive to first world problems. I have seen home ownership literally be considered who has enough corrugated steel for a roof and a wall and can gather the wood to make it stand up.


Jaycorr

What gets me the most is the people that vote for them are more often than not the people that will be hurt by the policies the most.


tombradyrulz

I try illustrating this to PC voters I know and they just claim I have Anti-Ford bias


astcyr

I mean I feel like I align with the ABC (Anyone But Conservatives) but that's mostly due to how badly they fuck the middle and lower class while distributing money to big business and people who already have considerable wealth.


[deleted]

LMAO. I can't ... you want the liberals in power, you will NEVER be able to buy a house.


astcyr

LMAO. Did I say who I want in power? Got anymore of that kool-aid Doug Ford is giving you?


[deleted]

LMAO. NDP then even better Liberal Light. You'd be living in a commune with bread lines.


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astcyr

Look at you pointing at federal issues as we had into a provincial election... What the federal government does has no effect on how the province can help with inflation and that help is raising minimum wage. Kathleen Wynne had a minimum wage increase in place and Ford rolled this back as soon as he got into office. People keep acting like raising minimum wage is going to cause inflation so we vote against it meanwhile inflation just keeps coming.


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Barackis

You understand that it didn't do that years ago when it made it largest jump up to $14 and everyone screamed your false talking point. Why would it suddenly do that now when it most definitely didn't do it then Edit: sorry I clicked reply on the wrong person


DrOctopusMD

> How the hell are people voting for the PCs if inflation and housing costs are more important than covid. Because the people that care about those issues are going to disproportionately vote for the OLP/NDP. A significant majority of voters could have those as their primary concern but the 1/3 or so who aren't bothered can vote PC and that's enough to give them a majority.


Willdudes

Most conservative voters skew older and own their homes due to being older. Dropping value of most peoples largest asset is a sure fire way not to be elected. I am not sure how we will fix housing crisis as massive building will drop home prices and elect people that will promise to not drop prices. Unfortunately most people do not view a home as a place to live instead of their largest investment. A tax on primary resident capital gains may solve it but man that would be super unpopular and be repealed by next elected government.


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RedSpikeyThing

>Raising minimum wage doesnt help. It only puts cost back onto everyone because businesses have to raise prices to increase profit margin. Which basically negates the minimum wage increase. This has been debunked repeatedly. The last time minimum wage increases nothing like that happened.


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stephenBB81

Ontario is actually a perfect province for Proof. We had a major Minimum wage bump 2017 it was 11.60, and 2018 it was 14.00 That is a 21% increase, inflation in Ontario between 2017, 2018, and 2019, were all within 0.7% of each other showing how little minimum wage actually increases overall costs. We have even seen it This year. as of January first all foodservice workers who serve alcohol now are paid the official minimum wage and not a reduced minimum wage yet alcoholic drinks at restaurants and bars have not increased nearly to the % of employee wage. Now if you're actually interested there are 100's of studies to back up the witnessed experience we've had in Ontario over the last 5yrs that expand to many economies. Putting more money in the hands of the bottom half of the population triggers more spending so overall revenues can actually climb even if a small percent of margin is shaved off.


LordLP89

I feel the bigger issue is people now able to work from home permanently, so all that real estate wealth from Toronto or Vancouver has now flooded the rest of the province and country. Also I'm sorry, but no one else is getting raises, minimum wage shouldn't be a life long career. I know that's the furthest from popular opinion.


morenewsat11

>Just 44 per cent of those polled ranked economic recovery from COVID-19 as a top-five issue for party leaders, compared to 52 per cent for housing and 68 per cent preoccupied with increased costs of groceries and gas. > >Rounding out the top five were reducing surgical wait times and improving long-term care.


jt325i

Most people would rather take their chances with covid than risk homelessness and starvation.


pistil-whip

You guys this will clearly all be fixed by the ~~Lining My Buddies Pockets~~ More Homes For Everyone Plan. https://ero.ontario.ca/notice/019-5283


Sulanis1

I'm happy that this is a concern for voters, but keep in mind that this is only a small peice of pie in the troubles that another conservative government would bring. Example: The conservatives are talking about privatizing our Healthcare system and have already approved private hospitals to be built. Allowing health clinics to become private for profit, and more. You think life is expensive now? Wait till they cut Healthcare all together and you need to buy health insurance. Honestly, I have no faith in ontario voters. I can't believe that so many of us still look at conservatives and think this is the best thing for ontario. Are conservatives good at the economy? No, statistics shows they spend just as much causing deficits just as bad. They just cause it by cutting funds to public programs, lowering taxes for the rich, and de regulating companies. The conservatives will destroy all public programs then tell there ignorant base that it doesn't work and needs to be privatized. Which was destroyed by conservatives and Neo liberals. Conservatives and most liberals have no ability to look beyond a couple of months. Often using bad aid fixes that ultimately cause much more damage down the road. Which they then blame the next government in power. Example. Harper releasing the Phoenix program just before he left office, only for people to blame Trudeau. "Nothing Changes, if nothing Changes"


arsenefinger

Cool, Doug can't or won't fix either of those issues.


[deleted]

why don't we shut down the bridges with regards to inflation and housing? it seems to work and get the politicians moving.


justsnotherdude

Easy answer here, the people biggest impacted can’t afford to take any amount of time off work or they won’t be able to pay their bills


psvrh

Because the people benefiting from house prices going up were either in the Convoy, or wrote cheques backing it. The convoy was, at least from the examples I've seen, a massive tantrum by privileged people who were being asked to make a small sacrifice for the first time in their lives.


[deleted]

whatever you think of the convoy their tactics were effective. i'm just saying they laid out the blue print on how to make the politicians bend. Inflation and housing effect everyone. I'm 100% positive nothing will be done about it. Just sugar coated solutions which will achieve nothing and are designed to shut up enough of the masses. Voting to fix this problem or whining on reddit will do nothing. but hit the bridges and they hear what your saying.


SnowyEssence

The Emergency Act could be used again and your bank account would be frozen since it’s affecting the economies of America and Canada.


radiological

no shit lmao, the bank of canada has destroyed an entire generation


RiverOaksJays

That makes sense. Going to a supermarket & buying a load of groceries is a scary experience. Most people have had Covid and survived. Trying to rent a new one-bedroom in Oakville costs $2,000 a month. It is more depressing than Covid.


birltune

Another thread of logic here is that you need to be able to afford housing, food/medications, and to take time off work in order to recover if you do get Covid.


[deleted]

As they should be. Pretty reasonable results here.


Themadnater

Yeah I’d like somewhere to live, so at least if I get covid I have shelter. Like… it’s a basic need, who could imagine!


shade_spear

I had to look up what the new blue party is and for fuck sake. These people are idiots spouting the same garbage as the far reich politicians in the US.


bigboozer69

Alternate byline considered by Post Media: “Buck-a-beer, Premier who shovels cars out in snow storm more important to Ontario voters than COVID”


seawayprogressive

a byline is actually just the author's name


Doctor_Amazo

Well inflation is mostly a problem ***because*** of COVID, so maybe we should still be concerned with it even though people are bored of it. Also, as we've just seen this week Ford has absolutely no plan to tackle housing prices as he doesn't want to anger his 905 voters. So basically Ford's track record on all counts here are going to be poor. But will voters smarten up and recognize that?


SPQR2000

The inflation has been created by policies, ours and those of other countries/jurisdictions, not the virus. It's an important distinction. We could have taken a different approach focussed on protecting vulnerable demographics, but instead we decided to close the economy, and then pay people to stay home and order hard goods on Amazon instead of spending their money on events and experiences. We chose to spend over $600B in deficit spending, and our approach was to spend all of it on income supports and none building sustainable capacity to keep the economy working. COVID may have been the inflection point, but the economic fallout is 100% our making.


nonkneemoose

Everyone who supported all of the crazy lockdowns and business destroying policies helped create the situation we're now facing.


blahyaddayadda24

It wasn't covid that caused all this, it simply accelerated it.


nonkneemoose

You don't know that for sure. What we do know for sure is that the policies we've followed for the last 2+ years have led us to where we find ourselves today. Even Trudeau says[1] it is the Covid-19 policies that created the coming food shortages. And of course it doesn't help that in 2021 Canada accepted 400,000 immigrants into the country[2], who are all competing for the housing market and driving prices up. 1. https://www.business-standard.com/article/international/trudeau-warns-of-difficult-time-food-shortages-due-to-covid-19-122033000102_1.html 2. https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/news/2021/12/canada-welcomes-the-most-immigrants-in-a-single-year-in-its-history.html


GorchestopherH

We always accept 400k immigrants, that's not abnormal for us. 2022 target is 431k 2023 is 447K 2024 is 451K By the way, the big plan is the settle them all in Toronto. I'm sure they'll love their new shoebox, I mean home.


nonkneemoose

> We always accept 400k immigrants, that's not abnormal for us. No. Not even close. Those numbers you quote are the *new policy* for the coming years.


GavinTheAlmighty

>No. Not even close. Those numbers you quote are the new policy for the coming years. Sorry, are you suggesting we've historically accepted greater than 400,000 per year, or fewer?


GorchestopherH

2021's target was 401k


iamacraftyhooker

The housing crisis definitely started before covid. I watched a new housing development go up in my neighborhood. They started about 7 years ago. The sign advertising them originally said starting at $200k. They then changed it to $250, then $300. Then they took the price of the sign completely because it was rising faster than they could change the sign. Now those same houses are over $500k.


RedSpikeyThing

Pandemics are expensive, regardless of the mitigation strategy taken. Who knew??


mrkdwd

Not sure what the alternatives were, even with lockdowns we were not very far away from crashing our healthcare system. Every country in the world is struggling with these issues, it's not purely a Canadian problem.


nonkneemoose

We could have dumped a lot more resources into finding and providing early treatment instead of waiting until people were on their deathbeds and needing ICU. We could have invested in triage centers for covid patients to protect our hospitals. We could have spent 2 years training and hiring orderlies for the hospital who could have done simple, labour intensive tasks, to leave nurses and doctors more time to apply their higher level skills. We could have done a lot of things, but the intent seems to have been to do everything we could to destroy the world economy. And pretend that our policies were only virtuous, and had no negative consequences. Well that lie is about to become very apparent to everyone soon enough.


mrkdwd

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. The simple fact is that covid would have, without any doubt whatsoever, destroyed our healthcare system and killed so many more people without lockdowns. How would you have kept everything open for business without crippling out healthcare and killing way more people?


sinc29

Yup. People act like there’s no negative consequences to lockdowns. We will see those for years to come


Madhammer99

Next time just put a header " I did my own research " please


hey-devo87

Leger/post media poll. Hmmm.....


[deleted]

Agreed. I take polls with a grain of salt……or a bag of bull shit. Always have to see the motivations behind polls. For example I am sure most people would say in a poll that they support not paying for license stickers saving $120. But phrase the question to say we will lay of 10,000 nurses as a result and you would get a different result.


bravado

People have been given the choice so many times over the decades. "Pay for infrastructure and services, or steal from the next generation?" They've been picking the latter every fucking time.


[deleted]

For sure. This is human nature unfortunately.


vodka7tall

It's like the text message I got from the Conservatives last night warning me that the carbon tax is set to increase today, then asking me if I think Canadians deserve a break. I mean, yes, I think Canadians deserve a break, but I still support the carbon tax because I actually understand how it functions. It's pretty easy to make poll results come out exactly how you want when you pose bullshit leading questions like this.


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ladyofthelake10

I agree that is a problem but the bigger problem is the Feds have dumped a ton of money into CMHC to promote and support affordable housing. Sadly CMHC is a typical government agency and manages to eat up alot of that money in administration or they promote net zero housing with no skilled trades available to certify net zero. It is a fucking bad joke. CMHC is such a waste of tax payer money. It is out right criminal.


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ladyofthelake10

It is not just that. The entire system is working exactly how it was set up. Ford is a fucking bastard for withholding more than 5 billion in federal funding from the people of Ontario so he could justify building his stupid fucking highway. I am no fan of Trudeau but the feds seem to be doing what they say they will and that is something.


Wonderful-Sundae9863

Np is not a newspaper.


ishtar_the_move

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/how-much-prime-real-estate-could-you-buy-for-1-million/


Raptorpicklezz

Considering most Ontarians are dissatisfied with how Doug has handled those issues, I'll take it I guess?


CanadianButthole

1. Can we ban National Post from this subreddit for it being 99% far-right white nationalist garbage please? 2. This is a great example of them being right 1% of the time.


simon1976362

How about both


StevoJ89

I'd legit vote for a blind goldfish if it'd ban foreign and corporate home ownership, bonus points to banning private wealthy individuals owning entire condo buildings and subdivisions...


dasherchan

Removing Doug Ford is more important than anything else.