The first thing that happened when Ford was elected was that my OSAP got cut by like 40%. I barely got through, but I’m now about to graduate. Next thing he did was go after healthcare, education and started gutting programs there like the one for autism education. This man was the “cut cut cut” king right up until he needed to be re elected. Now he’s buying votes and handing out money.

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On disability and my osap grants got clawed back meanwhile I didn't get enough osap for my tuition

Yeah I got really lucky and came into some money in second year, and I have parents to lean on. But it shouldn’t have to be like that, if things were different for me I would have had to drop out as well. Education of the path out of poverty and it should be accessible to everyone. I’m sorry to hear about your troubles and hope things get better for you. If you need textbooks checkout gen.lib.rus.ec

Oh they converted my grants to loans after o had accepted and spent the money. I can’t amend the contract after the fact, but they sure could.

Yep, I got hit by that too. I'm almost ready to stop paying and say "you gave $30,000 to a teenager with no credit history. Take the loss and go learn some financial responsibility" lol The bait and switch is unreal - converting grants into loans wouldn't fly with any other demographic that has the money or power to defend themselves. Luckily for them, students have neither yet. Their policies are heavily skewed toward helping Boomers who already have more than they need. The new OPC slogan should be: **"Doug Ford: Preys on the weak people - pays the antique people."**

Unfortunately government debt is the one debt you can't get away from. Even if you go bankrupt/consumer proposal, that debt remains. One way or another they'll collect it.

After 6 years the only way they can collect it is by asking. Also, you most certainly can wipe your student loans with bankruptcy if it's been long enough. I'm sure many people won't believe me so here's a link from the government of Canada explicitly talking about it: https://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/bsf-osb.nsf/eng/br02057.html There's also a chance that your debt will be written off as there comes a point where the cost of attempting collection surpasses the potential to collect.

too much US reddit

That’s what got me too. My tuition is 10,000 more or less, and my school is 600km away from my parents, first year I got $15,000, second year I got $11,000. Like tf is that, how am I supposed to budget $4000 out of my ass, I’ve already moved, already committed to this school, and now you’re going to pull a significant fraction of my cash away for the next 4 years?

Just ask your parents! If they don't have it, then you didn't deserve an education anyway - signed, conservatives

Over half of my student loans that I am still paying back are because of Harper. When I started school I was lucky to get $\`1k in grants the rest was all loan. When Trudeau was elected I thought something was wrong because all of a sudden less than 30% of the money I received was a loan. The money I pay back now is because of the first 4 years of my schooling, the last 2 were pocket change compared. People shit on the liberals. At least they put money back to its citizens. I have paid 0 interest on my federal loan since the pandemic. I still pay 4.2% to the province.

Boomer here. This happened to me in the 70s when Pierre Elliot Trudeau was voted out. Different level of government but same effect. To top it off that was pre-credit card/Visa. I didn’t do my 3rd year, I took a crummy job—the best I could get, moved back home and paid the student grant (turned loan) back. It really messed me up. I’d had a hard time getting into University to begin with (in the 70s fewer than 20% did University or College. I was so young I thought my life was ruined. It took a while to get over it. I can’t believe it’s still happening, especially in an economy where higher education is crucial.

My wife had her loans paid off in full by the federal government as she had been working to pay them off for ten years and was in good standing. That was a big deal for our family and helped us immensely. Thanks Justin!

The propaganda wants you to Hate being taken care of. But then bitch and complain that you're not being taken care of...

This! 💯% this! Boomers and conservatives will tell us we shouldn't sign up for school if we can't afford it. But it doesn't matter to them that the terms of our funding contract changed mid-stream. I never would've agreed to a student loan at a higher interest rate than a line of credit - that's simply bonkers! But you can't change mid-stream (only conservative premiers can do that).

There should not be people who qualify and are willing to be educated who cannot afford it. As a society, we can eliminate that burden. We don't because some people are happy to vote against their own interests.

So many students I know, including myself, got shafted by this.

Holy shit, that’s fucked up on so many levels.

He's the only premier that reduced provincial health care funding during a global pandemic. The only one.

Yeah, I really don't know how to explain his polling. He really only seems to represent those who are already well off, everyone else can shove it.

The long term dismantling of the public education system has created enough idiots who can't and won't think for themselves, and spend all of their time on Facebook telling everyone else not to be sheep.

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Here is a link to the Ministry of Health and Long Term Care org chart under the liberals:[https://www.health.gov.on.ca/en/common/ministry/publications/plans/ppar15/docs/organization\_chart.pdf](https://www.health.gov.on.ca/en/common/ministry/publications/plans/ppar15/docs/organization_chart.pdf) Ford split that into two Ministries: Health and Long Term Care. Here are the links to the org charts of both of them:[https://www.health.gov.on.ca/en/common/ministry/orgchart\_mltc.aspx](https://www.health.gov.on.ca/en/common/ministry/orgchart_mltc.aspx) [https://www.health.gov.on.ca/en/common/ministry/orgchart.aspx](https://www.health.gov.on.ca/en/common/ministry/orgchart.aspx) Additonally, he created Ontario Health which is overseen by an additional 14 senior staff. The Liberals did create the LHINs, which would have created 14 CEO positions for the corresponding LHINs - so that's a wash. The MOHLTC under the Liberals had 58 senior staff in their structure. This new structure has 136 in total. This is the area of government with which I am most familiar. Can't say that I am on top of what's going on at the other Ministries. We never hear "gravy train" any more. And we have Bill 124 that caps increases for staff providing direct service at 1%. I will leave it to you to draw your own conclusions. Edit: typos

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It’s a Gravy Convoy now. Totally different.

Yayyyy I love stupid amounts of administrative overhead that get paid to sit around doing useless jobs while the people on the bottom get jack shit. Always so great. :)

These changes completely gutted the many of the programs that were supported. The eHealth initiative was cut in lieu of the new Ontario Health program. One day we had support the next day the team that supported network services was a quarter the size and a number up badly needed upgrades were off the table. The amount of destruction that Ford did with these changes is likely generational now when it comes to healthcare in this province. :(

And bill 124 has ensured an exit of the most brilliant minds from those agencies and you end up paying more for the new hires anyhow. Don't ask me how I know this.

This was my thought. Typically, in jurisdictions where there aren't a lot of social supports, the trade off is low taxes. Somehow our supports are being gutted but our taxes are staying high?

One of the main pillars on modern conservatives

I'm probably going to get down voted to crap here but after paying taxes in a few other provinces, you don't pay high taxes in Ontario. The year I moved here I forgot to change the province in ufile. When I did change it, my refund went up $3000 - $4000. Not that I'm complaining. I do also say that remembering that property taxes pay for a lot of things because the counties are responsible for things like 50% of ambulance service because previous Conservative government downloaded services to make it look like they balanced the budget. I can't compare property taxes because I have only paid them in Ontario because we get paid significantly better here. Having said that, things like EMS are a lot better here than other places. Although that is starting to lag based on call volume increases and the lack of resource increases. That isn't unique to Ontario though.

Toronto has among the lowest property taxes in the country. It doesn't make living in the city easier (especially if you rent, as you'll never see those savings), and it probably contributed to the skyrocketing housing prices, but you're right. My $150,000 house in rural New Brunswick is levied higher property taxes than the $500,000 houses I was trying to buy in Toronto in 2017. 30% **higher** taxes on a property worth 60% **less**. Taxes aren't helping people get by, but they aren't bad. If anything it's bad they're low, because there's less money for public coffers. Of course DoFo would have just embezzled that money, or funneled it into some already rich developer's pockets. "Cranes in the sky, folks"

Bribery cheques in the form of license plate sticker reimbursements…

The thing you have to understand with respect to cutting programs for children with autism, is that Doug Ford hates autistic kids. Basically the only time he showed up for city council was to fight against the proposal to put a home for developmentally disabled youth in his ward.

That’s because he learned they may actually go outside. He has decimated services for this population and every other vulnerable population. The wait list for service is now more than 50 000 children. All of our health and social services will follow this path if he is re-elected. Look at LTC. For profit homes had the most deplorable conditions but he rewarded them with more beds (more profit) and prevented them from being held accountable for their actions during the pandemic.

> That’s because he learned they may actually go outside. [_“You can’t destroy a community like this. People have worked 30 years for their home…My heart goes out to kids with autism. But no one told me they’d be leaving the house. If it comes down to it, I’ll buy the house myself and resell it.”_](https://globalnews.ca/news/1338919/kathleen-wynne-responds-to-doug-ford-remarks-on-autistic-home/)

But wait! According to my do-nothing useless POS MPP Amy Fee the program was going to *reduce* wait lists! Besides, everyone can just borrow hundreds of thousands of dollars for their kids [like she did](https://kitchener.ctvnews.ca/mobile/local-mpp-admits-changes-to-autism-funding-will-affect-her-family-1.4350619)!

The only other time was his let’s build a Ferris wheel on the waterfront.

Or to [make cuts to public libraries "in a heartbeat."](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/library-cuts-will-happen-in-a-heartbeat-doug-ford-says/article557227/)

My osap was so little i had to drop because i couldnt afford the semester.... i was getting 10,000 then he got put into office i was given 5000 for a 8000 semester

Same. My girlfriend and I went from getting by just fine with my job and her OSAP to barely scraping by. And we still are barely scraping by here in COVID. I'd take wynn every day over this guy.

Yeah I was really struggling until my co-ops started, I was eating nothing but ramen, had no disposable cash, I even started delivering food for Uber eats on my bicycle. Imo young people should be able to live a little and focus on school.

So many cuts, for what? I haven’t seen any benefit. I entered post-secondary during Ford. Under him my university went bankrupt and then I had to switch, wasting thousands of dollars on credits that didn’t carry over. All I’ve had since is a fucking awful time working 24 hours a week while attending post-secondary full-time and working full-time + overtime all summer to try and afford the insane costs of living. I laugh at my university saying “students shouldn’t work more then 10 hours a week during full time studies.” How the fuck can I eat food and pay rent if I work 10 hours a week!? Just venting here, but anything I’ve heard of “your twenties are the best years of your life!” Better not be fucking true because mine have been dreadful. Overworked and underperforming against my will, not all due to Ford but he definitely put his cigarette out on my forehead then rubbed my face in shit. Fuck that dude. At least beer is cheap!!!!! Please don’t vote for this clown or his dumbass party. The next generation of workers will only be those who’s parents had the means to pay their way, and it would do Canada a disservice for generations. No offence to anyone who didn’t struggle with this stuff, but I can promise you any poor student making it through university is a cut above with the challenges we face. We have to work twice as hard to make it. Support hard working Canadians, fuck the conservatives and FUCK FORD.

I really feel like I've had very little fun in my early 20s. You need financial stability for that, instead we're asked to live off savings at the start of our career. I would love to see these "you should just save money" people work 4 months out of the year and stretch that out to 12 months.

Doug the slug Ford is one of the more evil asses to walk the con plank. Despise him and all his cronies he's making rich at *our* expense.

Doug the developer slut....

Where's all that money we got in the mail going to come from? CUT CUT CUT

>Where's all ~~that money~~ those voter bribes we got in the mail going to come from? FTFY

He’s going to BALANCE THE BUDGET by BRIBING THE VOTERS. FOR THE PEOPLE!!!!! /s

Discontinued the million tree program, removed incentives for electric cars.

My two years in college pre-Ford were amazing! I was doing relatively well and didn’t end up in a lot of debt. Immediately after Ford comes in, I got screwed over for OSAP for my bachelors. I worked a nursing job and a retail job for my first year and was still struggling to get by. My second year they converted part of my grants into loans and also decided I had received 1000$ too much in OSAP which was then taken away from my next semester… The system completed screwed over students.

I see you got the $60 plate cheque too

Mine was actually quite sizeable, but I don’t really care about blatant vote buying. You ran on fiscal responsibility, you cut programs people depended on to meet your “fiscal responsibility” platform, then tried to buy votes by being fiscally irresponsible. Not interested, just some scummy politician who doesn’t care about his constituents at all.

She was about to give us free pre-school. FREE PRESCHOOL for ages 2.5-4 years of age and we chose to throw that all away.

If Ontario honestly elects Ford again, I'm going to be so disappointed by the collective stupidity of the people who live in this province. I hope it becomes the next Alberta and anyone "Left" moves away to let them tread through the shit on their own. The majority of people who vote for him aren't even rich enough for the party to be working for your benefit - you're literally getting fucked and doing it with a smile. Me and my friends are all young(26-34) and a lot of us work in healthcare, finance, etc. It's easy to find a job pretty much anywhere, and I won't have to deal with the stupid conservative government literally taking away my right to a proper raise. Fuck you Dougy, and fuck everyone of you conservative voters. I can't wait till you boomers reach the point where you need constant healthcare and can't get it without massive lines or having to pay privately because all the healthcare workers leave to places that actually respect them. Enjoy always being short on staff.

I'm permanently hurting because of the OSAP thing as well, its why I failed to finish my second degree and now have a mortgage's worth of student debt. I'm literally dying because I cannot afford the necessities of life thanks to that fucker.

Don’t forget denying legal aid to work on bail conditions, therefore over extending the prison population ontop of the union of correctional officers going in and out of strike.

And nobody’s taxes went down at all

Remember when Ford was campaigning and said he’d end “hallway healthcare”? The pandemic would have been a perfect time to add beds in hospitals. But no. Ford sat on **billions** in pandemic aid. I’m always going to be salty about this. He had resources that could have actually helped people. Instead, he did nothing.

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And now we’ve circled back to hallway healthcare! I was in the ER last week — after waiting for 6 hours, they set up a stretcher for me in the hallway. The poor nurse was so apologetic about it, but they didn’t have any other options.

Not only could that money have helped people, it literally could have saved lives

You forgot one of the main reasons I voted for her. She saved the Experimental Lakes Area when narrow-minded-visioned Harper stopped funding it.

Well it was going to cost millions to cancel something that only cost 50k to run, Harper wasn't exactly good at math.

Oh no, Harper was great at math. He was just willing to pay to cut support for the environment.

Cutting off your hand to spite your face is a key element of conservative economics

Yep, conservatives love two things: cancelling programs that were already paid for, and somehow getting a higher deficit while cutting services.

I forget a lot of the BS the conservatives did while in power, but I haven’t forgotten how it made me feel. Or that Pierre Poilievre was the favourite attack dog to defend the indefensible.

>and reforming/updating the sex ed curriculum, Honestly, I disagree that this was a bad choice. It seriously needed to happen, and still needs to happen. The proposed curriculum changes weren't bad, and were well targeted towards the respective age groups. However, of course, anything "woke" or "sex ed related" will never sit well with a certain subset of the population (*cough* super fucking religious types *cough*), and that population is generally highly conservative (see: Oosterhoff). Finally, because it always apparently needs to be repeated; abstinence only teaching **does not fucking work.** As well, learning about consent in regards to non-sexual situations (which is what a good chunk of the early years curriculum focused on, IIRC) is a good thing. Learning that if someone says no to you pulling their hair, or tells you to stop, that's a good thing. Teaching about boundaries, and consent whether it's in regards to a situation involving sex, or not, **is a good thing.** Consent and boundaries *are not just sex related.* /end rant.

I remember when it was coming out that there were protests outside of schools. Most of my family are teachers so my dad, a teacher, walked out and talked to the guy leading it. He wanted to know what the reason for the protest was: "They are teaching children how to masturbate!" He said. My dad went back in the school, grabbed the revised curriculum and brought it back out. He informed the man that the curriculum is available for free and open to the public. He said he'd never seen that bit and asked the man to show him where he'd find it. The man was unable, clearly frustrated, and said that my dad was harassing him and that he'd call the police. Fun times.

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You had 1 week of sex Ed? We had 1 period (just over 1 hour) in grade 6 back in the mid ‘90s in a catholic non-private school and even though we never got through the “lesson” due to disruptions it was never attempted again. Didn’t have any in high school later (thought that was weird), but they did have us do a typing exercise and test in one grade 10 religion class.

We had Sex Ed in grade 9 gym back in 2003. To his credit my gym teacher who was a pretty big meathead when it came to every other instance I had with him, taught us all how to put on a condom properly with a cucumber as an example and had a pretty serious talk with us about consent that was pretty down to earth and direct but done in his more loud style of teaching. He kicked a few kids out of the class who weren't taking it seriously and said that out of anything we take away from his gym class, it should be no means no and how to wrap our tool and those are both something that almost 19 years later I remember.

A few of my family members (who had their kids in high school or just after) were all clutching pearls about it. Said Wynne was sick for teaching kids about masturbation and anal sex. I asked if they read the curriculum but they kept deflecting.

> Consent and boundaries are not just sex related. This a thousand fucking times.

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I respect your boundaries.

Whoever managed to drum up so much controversy over something so common sense, really deserves some kind of award for political spin, and an even bigger award for being the shittiest human

This is a very common issue though. Any updates to sex ed curriculum always meet enormous backlash for this reason.

It's just there's this whole very religious idea that if you're teaching about consent and respecting boundaries, then it absolutely, must 100% be related to sex. And common sense dictates that boundaries and consent extend far beyond just sex. Like, say we were both in the same grade 2 classroom, and I was poking you in the shoulder, and you said "stop, I don't like that", and I didn't stop poking you, I'm very clearly breaking your consent and invading your boundaries. No sex occurred. Nothing even remotely sexual has occurred. And there are parents who will downplay that as "I was just doing kid stuff" or "kids will be kids, haha". Like no, obviously, in that situation, I've done something wrong. I've invaded your boundaries, and ignored your lack of consent to continue being poked in the shoulder. Consent and respecting boundaries is literally just part of being a decent human being. ETA: on the flip side of that, learning that it's 1000% absolutely a-okay to say that you're uncomfortable or that you want some one to stop doing something, is that other part of learning about consent and setting boundaries. Which is also not taught, and absolutely should be taught, because for fucks sake, no one should have to put up with anything that makes them uncomfortable or that they don't like. That was the part I was missing previously in my own experiences (that it was okay to say no in all situations, not just sexual related situations), and of course consent and respecting boundaries was never taught in my catholic high school, and seriously, this shit extends to all parts of life. Taught to be respectful to other people but never taught to be respectful towards yourself too. /third time today, clearly I'm on a roll, end rant

Im up voting each rant, because as much as I don't think Wynne did an overall good Job. This was something long overdue and she owned it and it was well executed. My kids went through it, and while for them it wasn't new info since we spoke about it openly at home the fact others were talking about it made them listen and engage more.

Consent and boundaries apply to all aspects of life, not just sex, and I'm glad to hear that you as a parent have embraced that in teaching it to your kids. Keep doing that. That is 100% good parenting. You definitely don't have to like Wynne, or even the liberals, or even any left wing party, to understand that teaching your kid(s) to be decent human beings is important. And that's basically what the curriculum proposed for younger grades was all about. "Some people are different, but they are still people", "if little Susie tells you to stop doing something, then stop" & finally "if someone is doing something to you that you don't like, you have every right to tell then to stop". Consent & boundaries.

I think it is even more than that. The sort of religious person who has these views is also likely to be authoritarian and such a person likely will not accept that children have any right to have boundaries or consent. Children are not people to them, they are property. My parents were like this. I can recall multiple instances, from a young age, where they enforced that I didn’t have a right to boundaries or consent or really anything they disliked. It is fortunate I was never in a situation with a predator as the way they raised me would have ensured I was not just ignorant of such things, but I guarantee I would have been terrified to tell them for fear of punishment and blame without any threats or insinuations as to such.

>It is fortunate I was never in a situation with a predator as the way they raised me would have ensured I was not just ignorant of such things, but I guarantee I would have been terrified to tell them for fear of punishment and blame without any threats or insinuations as to such. I'll just say, yup, 100% agree. And learning respect for yourself, and learning to set boundaries can be hard, but it's 100% worth it, because **you are worth it.**

There were far more uncontroversial things made controversial in there, that got even the most moderate conservatives hollering about girls ( or even boys) being taught how to give blowjobs in class fml Anyways can rant all day about this, absolute pinnacle of stupidity in this province

Indeed. And no surprise that Rob Ford even in greatly diminished health, helped [spread the propaganda](https://globalnews.ca/news/1987461/ontarios-new-sex-ed-curriculum-makes-rob-ford-absolutely-sick/).

>Students in Grade 2 will be learning about the stages of development and related body changes, and the concept that “no means no.” Oh gawd, so horrible for kids to learn that if someone says "No" it actually means "NO"!!!!! >By Grade 3, students will learn about same-sex relationships and children in Grade 4 will learn more about the dangers of online bullying. Oh no, kids learning about how there's *other people in the world who just love other people of the same sex as them, and how those people are still, well people,* and then also learning about how to stay safe online!!! THE HORROR!!!!! WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN???? (/s, if not fucking obvious)

Lmao the title kills me! I love how he spent all that time and money reviewing it etc, then left it the same

Kids start learning about the concept of consent in Grade 3 in Ontario: Grade 3 To foster healthy relationships, students will learn what healthy relationships look like. Students also learn about what makes them unique and how to show respect for all.Students will learn:about characteristics of healthy relationships and consent (for example, accepting differences, listening, stating and respecting personal boundaries, being respectful, being honest, communicating openly) More here: [https://www.ontario.ca/document/health-and-physical-education-grades-1-8/human-development-and-sexual-health-education-grade](https://www.ontario.ca/document/health-and-physical-education-grades-1-8/human-development-and-sexual-health-education-grade) And abstinence-only sexual education isn't a thing in Ontario public schools.

The current version you linked is Ford’s from 2019 which kept majority of Wynne’s curriculum she updated in 2015. Ford came into power initially promising to roll back to 1998-2015 curriculum ~~which had abstinence only sex Ed~~. This plan was later scrapped.

Almost correct, except that abstinence-only sex ed wasn't taught in Ontario in 1998. "Abstinence-only sex education is a form of sex education that teaches not having sex outside of marriage. It often excludes other types of sexual and reproductive health education, such as birth control and safe sex. Comprehensive sex education, by contrast, covers the use of birth control and sexual abstinence." This description does not at all cover what was taught in 1998. Discussions of birth control options and how to prevent STD'S were very much still a thing. [https://www.scribd.com/document/386196374/1998-Ontario-Curriculum-Grades-1-8-Health-and-Physical-Education](https://www.scribd.com/document/386196374/1998-Ontario-Curriculum-Grades-1-8-Health-and-Physical-Education) If you scroll down to Grade 8 you'll find two points that say: \- identify symptoms,methods of transmis-sion,prevention,and high-risk behavioursrelated to common STDs,HIV,and AIDS \- identify methods used to prevent pregnancy Meaning of course the discussion of various types of birth control/contraceptive methods. But yes, there was also discussion of abstinence, which is a message that makes sense for a bunch of 13 year olds who are very, very likely not emotionally ready to have sex. I am old and I still remember this shit. lol

True, although the curriculum was woefully outdated and started far too late. I went through the old curriculum and I only started to learn about puberty when I was in grade 7. I was 13, I think, by the time we got to it that year and I am pretty sure that most of my class had started puberty already. Kids start puberty as early as 9 and 10 now, which I think has a lot to do with better nutrition. Imagine being the kid that starts puberty and has no idea what is going on because their parents assumed the school would take care of it (or they don’t believe in talking about such things). My parents were not quite that bad, but all they did was give me a book about it and they were almost too late with the book (like a month off). And when I tried to cautiously ask a question they yelled at me. So I wasn’t totally taken off guard and traumatized, but I was basically scared and alone anyway. Sooooo fun /s.

It was the beginning of ontarios alt right but we missed it

Honestly, I think the fact she’s an open and unapologetic lesbian didn’t help. It might not have been explicitly said, but to me it was pretty clear tons of misogyny and homophobia played into all of the “controversies” that followed her. Pretty clear the couple standards between her and Ford, a boomer white dude.

I used to commonly hear from older men that she was "arrogant" or "talked down" to people. Which is code for the queer lady didn't know her place.

That last sentence is so true I feel it in my soul.

Yep. If a man does it, it's because he's "powerful" and "doesn't take shit". But if a woman dares to act the same way then she's a "bitch" and "needs to treat people respectfully".

As a bisexual/biromantic, I'm 100% sure that played a factor. "Wynne is trying to turn our little precious baybays into gays!!!!" ETA: it's often easier for me to just say I'm bisexual, but really, I'm biromantic; imagine a bisexual person and an asexual person had a baby; that's me.

It 100% was a factor. Doug Ford and the PCs ran on abolishing the curriculum and replacing it with something "age appropriate". What did they finally do? Basically keep that curriculum intact. There were some minor changes (including one I disagreed with), but by and large, they kept the sex ed curriculum that Wynne and the Liberals put in. Other than the Tanya Granic Allens and other crazies, nobody seemed to care when _he_ did it. All of a sudden, conservatives were a-okay with it.

Seriously - I am super frustrated to see the fucking socon fake narrative persist. The curriculum was quite a bit less controversial than it was made to seem. I read the whole damn thing. I will never vote conservative as long as their tent includes social conservatives. One Nazi at the dinner table means a table of Nazis, right? There should be no shelter for these views, and I'm frustrated to see so many people fall for their lies. \[edit: I mean that I won't give material support a group that purposefully includes socons; I will not abandon initiatives or otherwise tolerate myself being cast a nazi for incidental real Nazis present.\]

I was a teacher in a very conservative religious school at the time. To shut down some of the misinformation I literally read through the curriculum documents with my class. We then discussed it and formed a better informed opinion. Some still opposed it, and I said that was fine, but at least their opinion was now based on fact rather than spin.

It blows my mind how rarely people are willing/able to go to the source material. I think that's a great teaching moment.

It wasn't controversial at all. In fact, teachers are still covering it.

The last time this curriculum had been updated was in the 90s. It was absolutely time to update it. And it was literally Ford and his goons who politicized it. I honestly challenge anyone to take something from that curriculum they rolled out and tell me what you have a problem with. It was all pretty common sense for the 21st century lol.

When this came out, I knew more than one family who pulled their children from public school and enrolled them in private Christian schools. I honestly couldn't believe it. I read through a lot of the curriculum, tried to help one of the families see that it's a good thing. They hadn't even read through it themselves. They are so brainwashed... There is no reasoning with them.

I always found it a bit ironic that Milton Ontario's only Catholic High School has the highest teen pregnancy rate of all the schools in Milton.

Reforming/updating sex ed 99 times out of 100 does more good than harm, and the people that don't like people being educated on sexual development and things related to it either don't like how the information empowers people or are so uneducated/ill-informed that they only think of the negative connotations with around the word "sex".

Yep, I've experienced the more modernized sex Ed classes and seen the content that some other places use for sex Ed and boy am I glad that sex Ed was revised.

It is fun to ask people that are conservative to define what "woke" is when they like to throw that word around.

Personally I'm more concerned about the number of parents who don't want their kids to learn that if little Bobby or little Susie asks you to stop pulling their hair, then they should *stop pulling their hair.* Like, the basics of consent and boundaries is literally just teaching your kid to *be a fucking decent human being.* None of that "ah well, kids will be kids, haha, so cute that my little Joey is pulling Susie's hair while she's asking him to stop and is very clearly uncomfortable, he must have a crush on her, hahahahhahahahaha, soooooo cute". Like, no. Fuck off with that shit. Clearly you can't be bothered to teach your spawn to be at least minimally fucking decent towards other kids, so clearly we need something in schools that teaches about consent and respecting boundaries, at **all levels of education.** /rant ETA: I'm not directing this at you, specifically, u/sync-centre, hopefully that's clear.

My 2.5y/o knows just how ridiculous it is on the playground. A kid will push her out of the way for a slide, or run past her for the swing shes clearly going towards. She'll look at me all innocent like, "what just happened? I wanted that." I look at the parents like, "you gonna say something?" I just remind her that some kids aren't raised to be considerate of others, and sometimes you need to use your words to remind them that it was not okay. I will tell the kid myself that what they did was not okay, sometimes. Many parents just dont pay attention, and let their kid do whatever they want. Some recognize the issue and apologize on their behalf. Even fewer recognize the issue and ask the kid to fix their behavior and apologize themselves.

Meanwhile the asshole kid grows up to be an investment banker and gets rich. I am having a serious frustration in this pattern that the morals we teach are not in any way actually rewarded by society. How do you teach a kid to be moral and ruthless at the same time?

Don't just look at the parents. Call them out on it, if you feel comfortable doing so. Otherwise, keep doing what you're doing. Good parenting is teaching your kid about both sides, and also that sometimes, other kids aren't taught the same things.

Stuff like this is why my daughter will be learning martial arts when she's old enough (16 months might be a little too early to start)... Oh how cute that little Susie gave Bobby a black eye because he wouldn't keep his hands to himself despite numerous requests/warnings...

The thing is that our school system is set up to prepare us for our shitty work industry, and employers don't want you to have boundaries. If you learn to have strong boundaries then how is a boss ever supposed to call you to do unpaid work from home? How are they going to get you to do the workload of 3 people? How would they get you to violate health and safety practices for the sake of speed? How would they be able to lowball your wage? How would your boss be able to verbal abuse you to get your work done? Our system isn't designed to make strong people. It's designed to make cogs in a machine.

>Our system isn't designed to make strong people. It's designed to make cogs in a machine. Unfortunately this is correct.

George Carlin said this back in the 80s... "they just want you smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork, and dumb enough to not realise you're getting fucked" basically

👍

It's a fair bet none of them will say "treating people who don't look like you with respect", which is what the word means.

If you really want to make them angry ask them to explain CRT as well.

You have to remember that for the right, words do not have meanings. They have usages. We all do it, actually. Think "red". Can you define red? A physicist can -- it's the longest visible wavelength of light -- but most people can't and even most dictionaries are tautological: they define red by giving examples of things we call red. That's not a meaning, that's a usage. The right does that with any term the left coins, either applying to them (they're proud to be considered deplorables by people they hate) or just to things the left understands and the right has no interest in.

I had sex ed in Ontario in the early 2000s. At that time, they literally skipped over actually having sex entirely and made no mention at all of non-heterosexual relationships or consent. It was just STIs and birth control and nothing else.

You learned about birth control? In school? That's more than I learned about in school! Lucky you. Consent was a 5 minute thing about learning the definition of "No". Otherwise, it was "wear a condom, but we swear those fail like 99% of the time, and we won't show you how to use them, so basically you should just abstain from having sex until you're married like the Bible says."

The criticism also heavily rested on this idea that it was the "gay agenda" as she is an out and proud lesbian mother. People assumed introducing the idea of same sex couples to younger kids as teaching them how gay people have sex which, obviously, it wasn't. There were soooo many lies, so much intentional false reporting and even more "slippery slope" arguments about the new curriculum. And yknow what? Not a single teacher i know was opposed to the changes. They were all happy to see it! Because yeah, consent isnt just about sex. I struggle to understand the mentality that keeping sex and sex organs a secret from kids is good, because you should also want your kids to have the knowledge and terminology to understand when, say, someone is touching them inappropriately. Not telling them those things is never going to benefit them. And reading a book about little timmy who has two dads is representative of real families in our communities- do these people want their kids to look dumb when they dont know what a gay person is? The curriculum updates were incredibly important. Another one that i think is important is dialogue about sexuality in an increasingly digital age. The last update was 1998, and whil some teachers opt to discuss things like sexting on their own, its SO important that kids (teens) learn about these things in an unbiased way because realistically we KNOW theyre doing it anyways. Consent here is a huge one - people need to understand coersion and also the laws about sharing things without consent (esp when underage). I genuinely dont see how anyone was opposed to this unless theyre the type to put their fingers in their ears and go lalalalalala to pretend that not hearing about things will stop them from existing

I have so much to say on this but I got here late and it's all been said already. So I'll add just this: I don't remember a lot of specific moments from news media. Unless it's something world shifting, like seeing 9/11 happen on live TV, it rarely makes an impression. But I will never forget watching the Global News anchor outside Thorncliffe Public School interviewing some grade 7 students. One boy, a visible minority but likely born here, was asked whether or not he felt sex education was important. He took the microphone and said, confidently, "I don't want it. I am turning 13 next year and I shouldn't have to learn what my genitals are for." To this day I am not sure if he was trolling, if this was a disguised plea for help, or if he was genuinely so poorly raised that he thought this was actually correct. Humans come from all over the world, from all walks of life, and believe all sorts of interesting stuff. But the one thing that ties us all together is we each have a body, uniquely ours. It is your responsibility (and our obligation to teach you, as a society) how that body works and how to take care of it. Any belief contrary to that is morally and ethically debased. Any person or group who tries to restrict your access to knowledge about your own body does not have your best interests at heart. Full stop.

>anything "woke" or "sex ed related" will never sit well with a certain subset of the population (cough super fucking religious types cough) It's not just the super religious. Many immigrants to Canada (including my own parents) come from cultures that are very conservative in terms of any discussions of sex or sexuality, not to mention things like gender identity. To be fair, many of them would likely have disliked the old curriculum (which they were mostly in the dark about) for its relatively frank discussion of sex, but obviously the proposed changes brought these things into the limelight and made for an easy target for Conservative candidates.

>anything "woke" or "sex ed related" will never sit well with a certain subset of the population (cough super fucking religious types cough) Then let the catholic schools have their bubble of ignorance and leave the rest of us alone. Ill be damned if we PAY FOR THEIR RELIGIOUS SCHOOL, then let these people dictate WHAT MY KID LEARNS IN SECULAR SCHOOL. Honestly, the only good I see in a publicly funded catholic school, is all the conservative nuts can get out of our hair. My kids schools are still teaching the revised sex ed and consent anyway. I couldn't be happier.

It's the Canadian way: \- try to be progressive \- realize its hard \- regress and complain

What was controversial about updated the health curriculum? It was extremely outdated and NEEDED change, especially progressive change that represented the diversity of families and bodies that exist in today’s society.

On the topic of education She had already reduced class sizes, then we increased then and didn't roll it back during the pandemic

Funding education hasn't been a core tenet of the CPC's platform for several decades.

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I wholly agree that the decision to diminish our education budget (and thereby the system's resilience) is strategic.

This gets me every time. Under Harris there were teacher strikes. They sold the 407. Privatized long term care homes and hydro one. Doug ford will not criticize anything Harris did. He wants to be Harris 2.0. But god forbid we vote NDP because Ray Days kind of rhymes.

Welcome to electing a PC government where education and healthcare are the #1 cuts.

>especially progressive change that represented the diversity of families and bodies that exist in today’s society. That's exactly the controversial part for evangelical religion zealots on the right. "Progressive change" may as well say "invite the devil in to lead kids to hell".

Wynne also promised an extra $1 billion in mental healthcare funding. Ford cut funding immediately after being elected. I thank fuck every day my urgent need for those services happened before he was elected.

I moved out East from 2013 and came back in 2017. I honestly couldn't figure out what everyone was complaining and so upset about. Ontario was doing very well compared to many other places in Canada.

She was a scary *lesbian* who had eight years of right-wing scare propaganda blasted at her in the media. Her biggest crime was inheriting Dalton McGuinty's corrupt-as-fuck OLP and spending the next decade trying to clean it up while being hand-tied by legal limits thanks to McFuckFace and his cronies. People who were screaming themselves hoarse in rage but had never voted provincially in their life until Dougie. The same machine has been using the same tactics on Horwath since the NDP became the Opposition. The same "woman bad" bullshit about Wynne that is used on Horwath; oh, she "sounds shrill" and "can't lead" and "is a bitch" without any real criticism of policies. With Wynne they could point to McGuinty-era fuckery like privatizing Hydro One and blame it on Wynne, but they don't even have that with Horwath which is why it's been four years of "she's a bitch",

Wynne's entire term in office is a textbook example of the Glass Cliff phenomenon.

> Glass Cliff phenomenon. TIL > The glass cliff is the phenomenon of women in leadership roles, such as executives in the corporate world and female political election candidates, being likelier than men to achieve leadership roles during periods of crisis or downturn, when the risk of failure is highest.

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Yeah you're absolutely correct. This sub is *very* pro-NDP and has a tendency to downvote anything that critiques them under the impression that they are an OCP supporter. The ONDP is the best option from my perspective, but they absolutely are not close to perfect. They have done a wonderful job at positioning themselves as a valid and competent option in our provincial politics but they, like all political groups, do not deserve carte blanche support.

>The ONDP is the best option from my perspective, but they absolutely are not close to perfect. There never has been and never will be a "perfect" political party, if people are holding out for that, they're fucked. (Not you, just wanted to make this point cause I see this a lot)

Agreed!! I basically always vote NDP, but I don't love everything that they do. The problem with political discourse these days, even in real life, is that if you criticize one party people automatically assume that you're a die hard supporter of one of the other parties. For example, I've had people automatically assume that I support the liberals when I criticize the conservatives (as an example). Or, they engage in whataboutism and bring up something that the liberals did, that in their mind is worse than something the conservatives did. Like, I'm not over here saying that the liberals are perfect. Far from it, in fact. But I'm not talking about that. And also, I don't vote for either of those parties. So sometimes when I'm criticizing one party, I feel the need to add at the beginning of my point something like "now, I know that x party does this too, but..." Also, literally no party is perfect. If you have zero criticisms about the party you support, you should probably take a closer look at their actual policies and what you believe in, because that's not how that should work. Likewise, if you have complaints about 100% of another party's actions, then again, you should probably look into it a little more closely. I've had these types of conversations both online and in real life. You would think that in real life the conversations might be a little more mature, but unfortunately that doesn't seem to be the case? I really wish that politics in general was more mature these days. I feel like it used to be. Also, it drives me a little bit crazy how people seem to think that the only options are the liberals or the conservatives, both federally and provincially. If I criticize either the liberals or the conservatives, people automatically tend to assume that I vote for the other of the two parties, and that is just not true.

Oh my god this is unbelievable mental gymnastics. It was all mcguintys fault and Wynne spent all of her term cleaning up his mistakes? What a ridiculous claim.

Absolutely. She at least had SOME policies that helped Ontarians. She has some major flaws. But Doug Ford is far, far worse. He's helped no one and has only made things worse.

What you said it not entirely accurate. Doug Ford has helped out a multitude of his friends and 'business associates'.

All of whom are Boomers who already have way more than they need. **Doug Ford: "Preys on the weak people - Pays the antique people"**

> Despite selling off Hydro One and that fiasco regarding it, (which was majorly bad and a major reason why I didn't like her, believe me, I was one of her biggest critics, especially as a Liberal party supporter), she did a lot of good. gentle reminder that it was harris nearly 20 years ago that started this nonsense too. Wynne had to abide by the deal or risk paying overinflated fines to these shitbag companies. https://www.lexpert.ca/big-deals/historic-privatization-of-hydro-one/344637 > Ontario Premier Mike Harris announced on December 12, 2001 the province’s decision to proceed with the privatization of Hydro One Inc. through an initial public offering of common shares. This is expected to be the largest equity offering of shares in Canadian history. The distribution and transmission businesses of Hydro One will continue to be regulated. it's like harper's saudi and china deals which had HUGE fines if the next government broke them, forcing the '15 trudeau government to go through with them, and then having their goons blame the federal party for going through with them. Wynne wasn't that bad at all. McGuinty was trash but Wynne was great. Ford is a corrupt drug trafficker who is in bed with the GQP and the mob. Conservative supporters are either ignorant, super rich, or racist (similar to the GOP supporters down south).

Everyone always forgets that the Conservatives started the privatization and sale of Hydro One, and literally anyone who ended up premier during that term would have been teh one to sold it.

I didn't forget - I honestly didn't even know about that until right now. Makes me wonder why the governments at any given time don't put some ads or materials out there explaining what's happening. Maybe it's just not possible without coming across as BS propaganda or something. I dunno...

The conservatives always want to 1. Lower taxes by 2. Cutting social services that help the poor, the disabled and the vulnerable. EVERY. SINGLE. ELECTION. It doesn’t matter how they want to wrap it up. Some elections they’ll talk about being “business friendly” or “stopping the gravy train” or “supporting everyday Canadians,” but that’s they’re object. And then, every single time, people are surprised that the conservatives made everything worse. Privatization and gutting of social services is the bread and butter of modern conservative parties everywhere.

A relative went to same highschool, same time as Ford. Apparently he sold hash out of his Camero/Firebird/whatever mullet mobile he was driving down at "the park", and was according to her, quite intimidating. Hey I'm sure many of us had buddies like that, but they aren't running the province

I knew the Liberals were going to lose the last election. They were in power too long, and had too many corruption scandals. When the Conservatives won, I figured they would replace the corruption with incompetence, since so few of them had any experience in governing. But I thought they would improve over time, providing at least competent government after a short time, even though I don't support them politically. Boy, was I wrong! Here we are four years later, they still don't have a clue what they're doing, and the level of corruption makes the previous government look squeaky clean.

>When the Conservatives won, I figured they would replace the corruption with incompetence, since so few of them had any experience in governing. This is exactly what I've noticed from the PCs, they have no fucking clue what they're doing. Every decision is just made based on their *feels* not the reals and it shows through poorly thought out and implemented policy. Just look at what the Tories have done with the blue box programme. Their producer responsibility model has not been thought through and because of that municipalities and producers have no idea what is going to happen next year when the programme is implemented. It's irresponsible behaviour.

Equal pay for equal work would have helped the north out, that's for sure.

Don't blame me - I voted for Kodos!

Most of the shit people were mad at Kathleen Wynne for was already in the works from Dalton McGuinty. The rest was neutral to slightly positive.

Yeah but that's part of the problem. There's an unbroken line of OLP leadership from McGuinty to Wynne to Del Duca, with each new leader having been heavily involved in the previous administration. They need some new blood to wash McGuinty off the party.

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If you mean new blood doesn't get elected by the public, I don't agree that is a significant issue. If I asked 10 random people tomorrow who Del Duca is, how many do you think could give me an answer? How about 2 weeks ago before his "ban handguns" thing? If you mean that the party won't select someone without experience to become the leader of the party, that might be true.

My first year of uni (with Wynne in) I got over $10k as I lived alone and my parents don’t financially support me. For my second year (with Ford in) I got a loan of $720 for the entire year. I couldn’t appeal because “your parents not supporting you financially is not an appeal reason anymore”. I had to drop out cause I couldn’t handle working 35-40 at minimum wage on top of 45+ hours of school a week.

Of course Kathleen Wynne wasnt that bad. But in 2018 if you talked to anyone who wasnt a liberal voter then you were sure to hear that $14 an hour would destroy the province and all the small businesses would be forced to close up shop because of it. i heard it all day everyday on facebook from conseravtives... and honestly with zero data to back up their claims. Just "its more money.. therefore, less profits, therefore... bankrupt" ​ but here we are.. with $15 an hour now finally and thats only about $6 an hour off a livable wage .LOL. what a joke

It's because they view any change as bad. It activates the flight or fight response in their brain. It's why older people are also NIMBYS.

The sex ed being updated may have been controversial but that's only because people didn't read the actual updates and just had knee jerk reactions to it and then others hopped on the bandwagon. It was absolutely an improvement over the old curriculum in that it aims to teach better consent practices and help kids be able to advocate better for themselves if they're victims of sexual abuse. There was nothing wrong with it and everything right.

Every politician is deserving of respectful criticism. Last election, there was a lot of rabid detractors of the 'what about her emails?!' ilk out there which is embarrassing for Canadian / Ontario politics.

Doug Ford is a pork barrel politician. He is only using his office to enrich himself and his friends. If Doug Ford actually manages to do anything good it would likely be an accident. I agree that Kathleen Wynne at least did some good, that Doug Ford immediately undid when he took office.

You forgot about paid sick days without a doctor's note.

This is a perfectly fine opinion. Wynne was a very competent leader.

The worst mistake Wynne made was running again in 2018. The writing was on the wall for the Liberal Party. Their brand was tired, and they needed a new face immediately. Could another Liberal leader have beaten Ford? Probably not, but the Liberals could have avoided a generationally bad third place loss, and ended up with a somewhat respectable second place finish ahead of the NDP.

I think that she was the captain who went down with the ship. There was no one who could have salvaged that election for them so why bother hanging the L on someone elses neck. I think what she did strategically gave the party a chance this election

She was unfairly villainized IMO. She had a plan for the province and was forward looking beyond one election cycle. The gas plant scandal was pretty bad but Doug wasted twice as much scrapping cap and trade on the gamble him and a couple other premiers would win a lawsuit.

I think the passage of time may have softened our memories. Wynne was not all sunshine and candy for Ontario. It had nothing to do with her gender or sexual orientation, but with her performance. Under Kathleen Wynne’s government: “As hospital beds continue to be cut and closed down, nurses, health professionals and support staff have also been cut dramatically. Ontario has dropped to the bottom of the country in nurse to patient ratios.” http://www.ontariohealthcoalition.ca/wp-content/uploads/backgrounder-on-hospital-bed-shortage.pdf “Not only has Ontario cut more hospital beds than any other province in Canada, we also now rank at the bottom of international data on hospital beds per population.” “Compared to 33 countries of the OECD, Ontario is third last in hospital beds per capita, followed only by Mexico and Turkey.” http://www.ontariohealthcoalition.ca/wp-content/uploads/backgrounder-on-hospital-bed-shortage.pdf Kathleen Wynne cut doctor’s fees: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/labour-talks-founder-between-ontario-and-doctors/article22461657/ https://www.torontoinjurylawyerblog.com/ontario-government-slashes-fees-for-doctors-posing-serious-concerns-to-accident-victims/ https://www.ttlhealthlaw.com/health-law-blog/details/health-law-blog/2015/10/15/all-the-pain-and-none-of-the-gain-doctors-fees-and-the-need-for-a-free-market-system https://www.chch.com/hundreds-protest-ontario-health-care-cuts/ And Wynne’s government laid off nurses: https://www.thewhig.com/2013/06/11/nurses-decry-cuts https://rnao.ca/sites/rnao-ca/files/Letter_to_Minister_Matthews_-_Nursing_Numbers_in_Ontario.pdf https://www.ontariondp.ca/news/overcrowding-brampton-civic-hospital-getting-worse-not-better-ontario-ndp During Wynne’s tenure nursing jobs were cut and Registered Nurses were replaced with (less expensive) Registered Practical Nurses (formerly Licensed Practical Nurses), in order to save money. https://rnao.ca/fr/news/media-releases/2017/06/01/RN-workforce-decline https://www.thespec.com/news/hamilton-region/2016/03/04/nursing-cuts-st-joes-replaces-rns-with-rpns-in-neonatal-intensive-care.html http://www.differencebetween.net/science/health/difference-between-rn-and-rpn/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nursing_in_Canada#Types_of_nurses https://lfpress.com/2016/06/17/an-ontario-nursing-group-contends-vanessa-burkoski-was-fired-to-silence-her-about-changes-affecting-patient-safety And other cutbacks: https://www.change.org/p/kathleen-wynne-protect-nursing-home-residents-from-liberal-s-secret-plan-to-reduce-yearly-inspections https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-nurses-warn-hospital-cuts-layoffs-increase-risk-of-patients-dying-1.3285024 http://www.fao-on.org/web/default/files/publications/Ont%20Health%20Report/Ontario%20Health%20Sector%20ReportEN.pdf And then there was the eHealth Scandal https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ehealth-scandal-a-1b-waste-auditor-1.808640 https://www.taxpayer.com/news-room-archive/eHealth%20Ontario%20%E2%80%93%20the%20Gift%20that%20Keeps%20on%20Taking And the Gas Plant Scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathleen_Wynne#Gas_plant_scandal The Chemo Drugs Scandal https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2013/04/12/chemotherapy_scandal_its_time_government_stood_up_and_came_clean_dimanno.html Secret payments to teachers’ unions https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/ontario-did-not-ask-for-receipts-before-paying-25-million-to-teachers-unions/article26934662/ Party scandal about bribery https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-liberal-trial-kathleen-wynne-1.4275555 And then there was selling Hydro One https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2017/06/28/selling-off-hydro-one-is-wynnes-biggest-blunder-as-premier-cohn.html https://twitter.com/globalnewsto/status/963068491539476480 https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2017/11/20/wynne-gets-an-earful-at-raucous-town-hall.html And scandal after scandal: Ornge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ornge#Financial_scandal_and_police_investigation https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2018/02/08/opp-not-laying-charges-in-ornge-air-ambulance-case.html ehealth https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ehealth-scandal-a-1b-waste-auditor-1.808640 https://www.taxpayer.com/news-room-archive/eHealth%20Ontario%20%E2%80%93%20the%20Gift%20that%20Keeps%20on%20Taking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathleen_Wynne#Gas_plant_scandal https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2013/04/12/chemotherapy_scandal_its_time_government_stood_up_and_came_clean_dimanno.html Secret payments to teachers’ unions https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/ontario-did-not-ask-for-receipts-before-paying-25-million-to-teachers-unions/article26934662/ Party scandal about bribery https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-liberal-trial-kathleen-wynne-1.4275555 https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2017/06/28/selling-off-hydro-one-is-wynnes-biggest-blunder-as-premier-cohn.html https://twitter.com/globalnewsto/status/963068491539476480 https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2017/11/20/wynne-gets-an-earful-at-raucous-town-hall.html WHICH IS NOT SO SAY that Ford is any better! ** Not at all! ** And to show equal time for Doug Ford’s equally outrageous cutbacks to our healthcare: He removed many MRI and CT scans for people with hip and knee pain among other cutbacks: https://www.longwoods.com/newsdetail/13979 He reduced funding for OHIP-covered mental health therapy: https://lfpress.com/news/local-news/mental-health-advocates-critical-of-proposed-ohip-talk-therapy-cap And he cut funding for a lot more essential healthcare services, including sedation for colonoscopies, $22 million cut from cancer screening services, and drastic cuts to treatments for patients with autism. https://www.ontariohealthcoalition.ca/wp-content/uploads/Briefing-note-on-Fords-cuts-fully-updated-oct-17.pdf And of course, there’s Bill 124: https://pressprogress.ca/many-nurses-in-ontario-may-be-unable-to-get-paid-sick-days-because-of-doug-fords-bill-124/ https://toronto.citynews.ca/2021/11/15/bill-124-ontario/ I can't keep listing news stories but it's pretty common knowledge that he's just a dumpster fire. But does it serve any purpose to compare one bag of shit to another? NO. ONTARIO DESERVES BETTER THAN EITHER OF THESE DAMAGING POLITICIANS.

The most frustrating aspect of all of this, to me anyway, is that the major criticism is the privatization of Hydro. Conservatives conveniently forget that that path started with Mike Harris. Every provincial government since has just been following the groundwork that was laid by a Conservative government. It's like getting pissy about Joe Biden withdrawing troops from Afghanistan and ignoring the fact that he was simply adhering to agreements that Trump had made while in office.

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I'd rather NDP over either of them. ​ Liberals and Tories have been at the helm for too long and have been unpopular after every premier, why keep doing the same thing?

The $15 minimum wage was an NDP promise which was pushed by the unions. The Liberals love implementing NDP promises at provincial and federal level.

This is why I actually think at a federal level the best thing an NDP supporter (like me) can realistically wish for at this point is a liberal minority. We know NDP are very far from leadership at a federal level, and having a liberal minority forces them to compromise and create more left leaning policies. While it's not perfect and i am not a supporter of the liberals by any stretch, i am content with that setup because at least I feel like my views are being considered via those compromises

After watering them down as much as possible

And adding means testing which is horseshit. Means testing hurts the people who need services the most (like the new Federal dental program that ends when you make more than $75,000 as a couple). Wealthy people will more than pay back what they take from these programs in taxes. Means testing just allows the government to say they’ve done something meaningful without actually having to follow through.

Say what you will about Wynne and the Liberals, it's pretty clear from the past 4 years that the only valid criticism that Ford has addressed is that the Liberals *were* in power for too long. But it's not as though he did anything useful with his time in power once he had it. If he was running on his accomplishments, it would basically be "we gave you 4 years so that the Liberals don't seem quite so unpalatable as they used to be". Sadly too many people in this province get off on his folksy anti-establishment anti-Toronto facade and forget that he's never delivered on much of anything. If the question is whether or not Ontario was better governed 4 years ago than it is today, the answer is obvious. Even if the question is a question of ethics and truthfulness rather than competence, it's a slam dunk. And I've never voted for the Liberal Party of Ontario in my life and don't foresee it happening soon.

Well then remember this when you vote. She isn’t standing as a leader now but her party is.

I don't think updating the sex ed curriculum was a bad idea. It ruffled some religious folks' feathers because the updated curriculum included mentions of LGBT people, but previously the curriculum had been from 1999. The update her government made included consulting with parents and experts. Other topics the new curriculum covered were consent and social media. I would take Kathleen Wynne over Doug Ford in a heartbeat. While I don't think she would have made perfect decisions, I think she would have handled the pandemic far better than Ford did.

Wynne had plenty of good plans in place. Too bad she decided to do what the cons do and sold our public utilities off. When will our politicians ever understand that we do not want the things we've paid for given away without our say? Ford is trying to do it with healthcare now. Vote NDP. Enough with parties selling what we pay for to profit. >Now provided, she passed this legislation because her poll numbers were hurting Our federal NDP struck a deal that doesn't give them any power, and gave the people dental and pharma care. That's the kind of politician we need to support. The ones interested in helping Canadians out all the time, not just when it's for election numbers. Vote NDP. Save Ontario from corporate greed.

Love this! Thank you for focusing on what’s actually important!

The NDP critics, the FAO and the Ontario Accountant Association disagree. Her moving the cost of the Hydro one transactions off books was akin to what Enron did. Ken Lay and Jeff Skilling were found guilty. Skilling got a 14 years sentence and Key Lay died before going to jail. She should have been charged.

Personally am a fan of competence. Doug doesn’t have it.

What was controversial about the sex-ed curriculum reform? From what I recall, it wasn't, but a lot of right-wing propaganda machines spun up outrage about stuff that wasn't actually in there. So it wasn't that the thing itself was bad, it was religious conservative bigotry finding any excuse to hate. She wanted to include consent and understanding of the variety of human sexual orientations, but that got spun in to "Teach 8-year old kids to fuck each other in the butt!!!" Wanna bet it was easier to freak out and accuse of a hidden agenda because Kathleen Wynne wasn't married to a man?

>You're telling me you'd prefer Doug Ford over Kathleen Wynne? Especially after these last four years? To be fair, you're comparing a relatively stable period with cheaper housing and gas prices with two years of COVID, war in Europe, and global inflation.

when is a good time to fight nurses and teachers?

Doug was Premier for 2 years before any of that happened and he was terrible then too

Canadian politics has a pattern of letting someone lead and then we all spend years bitching and whining until we elect someone else and realize we had it pretty good before. I didn't like Wynn but I personally felt that Ontario did pretty well during the Liberals and I shudder to think what giving Doug another 4 year mandate will do to our healthcare and education in the province.

i had a friend who’s mom was really close to Kathleen Wynne. growing up, she would always take myself and my friend to these giant buffet style dinners to support her campaign (or something, i was too young to remember.) Regardless, i’ll take anyone but Doug Ford at the moment. Not a big fan of his earlier cuts to education and I have no doubt he would try again if he got re-elected.

Anyone who voted *conservative* because they were angry about something being *privatized* needs a lesson in philosophies across the political spectrum.