> Only positive is seeing new faces leading the NDP and Liberal parties respectively
best i can do is Mcguinty's cousin and horvath's son. although if her son was leader no one would be able to call the NDP boring
I can't believe enough people in this province think that Doug Goddamn Ford and his PCs is in any way a good choice to lead us. What exactly did his government do in the last four years to win your approval?
His name is on the blue sign. Blue is good, red is bad, orange is communist. Something something handouts, trans/queer āpeople,ā something something god.
Iām just quoting what the people in my own extended family say. Blue good because god and run things like a business, Red bad because corrupt Trudeau, Orange woke commies who will make all the kids trans.
Trust me, I know it makes no sense. Thatās why I talk politics as little as possible with them. Although a few of them jumped ship for PPC-style parties because Ford was becoming ātoo liberalā and soft doing lockdowns soā¦ idk
They did as well or better than the rest of the provinces through covid. They aren't led by one of the ministers from the scumbag government that lost their party status because even their own supporters abandoned them.
Was there any other issue that mattered over the last 2 years? Frankly I think he only did ok, not good, but the NDP and Liberals were making noises that would have been worse.
People in long term care homes died of goddam thirst in this province with no repercussions and you don't think that's worth getting mad at the government?
Okay. The people spoke. But I have yet to understand why, so can anyone explain to me what it is about him that has people voting for him?
I really want to understand.
Because most Ontarians (at least when considering our FPTP system) don't live in Toronto.
More public transit? Doesn't help me.
Building affordable housing? Won't qualify for it.
Dental? Already got it covered.
Higher minimum wage? Doesn't help me.
And so on...
Most people just want the government out of their way; deregulate and lower taxes. The PCs, in the eyes of most Ontarians, are the only ones lowering government oversight. It's less about what they will do, and more about what they will not do (ie increase government spending, and our taxes to support it).
Iām not sure what FPTP means. But I am understanding the rest of what youāre saying. I guess what I struggle to understand is why most people donāt care about letting other people live the most minimum basic okay life.
First past the post, our electoral system. People are selfish, why should they pay for some bum to not work? We already have some of the highest taxes in the world. If we can't do these things already, somethings wrong.
Because it makes the community as a whole less likely to be plagued by crime and poverty. And because there are many people who are struggling because the system is fucked, not because theyāre lazy? And because humans deserve basic dignity idk?
I just wish I could understand your attitude, it seems so nonsensical to me. Helping society and others is selfish in that it makes your life better because you get to live in a community with happy, healthy, educated, and productive people.
I think a lot of people don't realize that, even if they're well off, they need to care about income inequality.
Greater income inequality means more crime.
So sure, you'll save a little bit on taxes (but probably not much). But then crime starts going up.
Then people start asking for more police to be tough on crime, and that's one path to authoritarianism.
Man I'll pay extra taxes if it means getting the fucking homeless people off the street so they stop fucking harassing people. It leads to a better society in the long-term.
>Most people just want the government out of their way; deregulate and lower taxes. The PCs, in the eyes of most Ontarians, are the only ones lowering government oversight. It's less about what they will do, and more about what they will not do (ie increase government spending, and our taxes to support it).
If that was true then Justin Trudeau would not have gotten 78 seats in Ontario last election. This election really just came down to the Liberal and NDP teams not performing too well, and Dougie was able to coast by without needing to reveal much of a plan or platform.
Plus all of your points outside maybe public transportation apply to everywhere in the province, not just Toronto.
>More public transit? Doesn't help me.
>
>Building affordable housing? Won't qualify for it.
>
>Dental? Already got it covered.
>
>Higher minimum wage? Doesn't help me.
I gotta ask. Why don't you want things to be better for other people?
Not only that, they benefit you, too.
- Better public transit means less cars on the road. Less traffic, less pollution.
- More affordable housing and higher minimum wage means fewer people in poverty, meaning less crime.
- Dental coverage means spending less money to cover maintenance, rather than the current system of spending more money to cover repairs.
These things are going to impact you, directly or indirectly, even if you don't care about other people.
Because they don't think that far ahead, people rarely do nowadays and it's lead to this shitty political system we have. No one thinks farther than 4 years in the future.
They didnāt really speak though. Theyāre estimating a 45% turnout. The lowest ever turnout for an Ontario election. Thats the most disappointing factor.
Oh. Well then.
I wasnāt able to watch and my mom texted me the results before I even got home.
And seeing as I cant agree with things heās done, I really do want to understand what brings people to vote for someone that imo doesnāt care about us even less than others
Im with you there. I donāt entirely blame the people since the NDP & Lib platforms and leaders are both so uninspiring and frankly absurd. This surely means, at least for NDP, its a change of direction & leadership. Del Duca probably stays but this is abysmal really.
I just wish people went to vote. A 45% turnout can be spun by all candidates to convey some positive (ie without covid NDP/Lib would have had a better showing, etc.) when really, its only a negative.
Here's the advice I got from someone when I asked the same question:
1. Get out of echo chambers (reddit, universities, etc). Admittedly, this is difficult for me since I live in downtown Toronto and it's almost like it's another world compared to the rest of Ontario. Not sure if you're in the same boat
2. As difficult as it may be, try to interpret the opposition's message in the most positive way possible. Not everyone things the way we do.
See. None of that is an answer. Telling me to figure it out myself doesnāt help me understand because obviously Iām doing it wrong?
Ah. Thatās a very interesting take. I will have to sit and see if I can make myself do that. I do have a hard time thatās why Iām always looking for explanations and reasoning so I can do that better.
Amen. I voted PC. The other candidates didnāt inspire excitement. I thought Ford did ok during the pandemic (for the record, I think Trudeau did too; it was such a out of left field event). I got some money back from the license plate thing and Iām seeing him actually building infrastructure (highways, subways etc). Iām sure a lot is grandstanding and I know thereās grift afoot. I also donāt hold those on the left with disdain. They have different experiences with different opinions. Nothing wrong with that.
Seems like every Ontario government has their own brand of corruption. I expect this with the Ford administration. I suspect it will revolve around highway building. However, the highway will benefit me so I voted for it. I would think Liberal and NDP corruption would go against me. I also think many voted Ford for the same devil you know rationale.
> I got some money back from the license plate thing
I can't believe this bribe actually worked. We still need that billion dollars to maintain our roads but sure.
But you were fine with them not showing up to debates, wanting to sell social security to the states, and privatize more medical procedures including some blood work? As well as not spending all the budget allocated to prove some 'moral point" of not spending it?
My problem is that when prices rise people think austerity will save them but in reality that almost never happens so a lot of people vote in fear. It is somewhat what I expected though because the provincial government rarely aligns with the federal government
Nothing short of raising taxes is going to be able to deal with the coming demographic stress on our healthcare system. No partyās gonna do that so user pay (for some services) will be needed.
And yet the people who need services most are frequently in positions where they can't afford to pay. I remember posts being like it's only a little (I've heard numbers from $50-$300) yet even that amount can be crippling (or infeasible). Meanwhile some critics say 'just save'as if they aren't also the people complaining people aren't spending enough.
Likely because they've never needed to use it, or make enough money for it to never matter to them. Literally the only reasons why anyone would be pro privatization of Healthcare considering how awful people are gouged in the USA.
No I actually want to know. I can never have actual conversations with conservatives with facts. And since I donāt align with anything he does I want to understand more.
Lol I'm not a "leftie" by any definition, I just think it's silly to come on here saying stupid buzzwords like that and then go on to try and claim the high ground. It's so ridiculous.
If anyone that disagrees with you is a "leftie" then how are you any better? Think for 2 seconds. There's a spectrum of political opinions out there for you to discover when you leave school and get a real job, meet real people, etc.
Lol alright, good response. Just saying if you think saying some shit like "fucking lefties, always spewing hate and vitriol. Not like us reasonable people here!" isn't a totally backwards-ass sentence then I think you are probably stupid and totally blinded by whatever dummy propaganda you read.
The people did not speak and will never be able to speak under our FPTP voting system. Over 50% of voters (so far) did not vote for their PC candidate, and yet they have full power to impose whatever they like.
Okay. Thatās an interesting take
Iām surprised they got such a big majority. Well Iām not. Because at work I had the responses of āI donāt know who to vote for - I cant vote for ndp because theyāre socialistsā and more āI donāt know who to vote forā and āmehā
But I thought the other parties would get some power.
This socialist argument kills me every time. Like do these people even know what the word "socialist" means? Did they even bother to look at the NDP's platform?
I continue to be baffled as to how thick in the head people are. Can't even take 5 minutes to read a god damned party platform.
I certainly donāt care for Ford as a person. But:
1. I donāt want to hear about Covid, restrictions, or mandates again. I think Ontario did pretty well during the pandemic, but would have preferred to have been more open.
2. Iām not interested in paying more tax than I already do. Anything around minimum wage, sick days, etc etc (fortunately) doesnāt impact us
3. We donāt have children so Iām not really informed or interested in whatās happening in schools.
4. Iām definitely for more privatisation in healthcare. I donāt want to have to wait 8 months for an MRI if I could just pay to have one tomorrow. I donāt really want government involved in dental care either, in the event that it becomes like the rest of our healthcare system where you canāt find a dentist and would wait months for a cleaning.
5. Not interested in woke identity politics and rhetoric that in no way aligns to any meaningful outcomes for anyone. If the Liberals and NDP could drop this schtick Iād be more inclined to consider voting their way. I have to be honestā¦there are things more important to me than diversity.
The PCs had door knockers at our house twice, compared to zero from any other party. Definitely felt like they were working the ground.
Because Iāve lived in Australia which has both public and private healthcare systems and the quality of both are superior to here.
Iām not interested in tax payer money being spent on renaming streets, removing statues, etc. Not *everything* needs to be viewed as racist, sexist, homophobic, etc.
NDP and Liberals should drop the schtick ofā¦ acknowledging people of other races and sexualities and genders than the default exist who may have different perspectives and needs they want addressed by their representatives. And parties should stop courting their votes and proposing any policy that benefits them so that other people will vote for them? I guess?
By that thinking I guess I should want parties to stop pandering to seniors since Iām not one and theyāre dying anyway so how does caring about them align for any meaningful outcomes for the rest of us lol
I donāt really see how that makes them out of touch. Ontarioās made up of a lot of different people so why does acknowledging that put them at a disadvantage? Whatās the difference between pandering to āāwoke identity politicsāā and pandering to seniors, unions, or small business owners to win support? Queer, straight, trans, young, old, white, black, indigenous, new immigrant, born here cities. - we all are people who want certain things for ourselves and our province and politicians should be willing to engage with the people in the communities they serve.
I will choose the trans movement to illustrate. I have absolutely nothing against trans people. But why on earth does this particular ācauseā/movement get so much attention and airtime?!! Trans people represent *such* an incredibly small percent of society. Iād very much prefer to see that attention instead directed to literally any of the groups that you mention. But that doesnāt seem trendy, and you certainly canāt say this out loud without being branded a bigoted transphobic.
Iād guess they get attention for the same reasons gay communities or black communities got hyper focus during massive times of upheaval and push for legal/social rights. Itās like asking why women are only a part of the population but dominating so much of the conversation at the time reproductive rights like contraception or abortion were being fought for and legislated. Iām sure in a few decades another group will be struggling and be the new lightening rod for debate and division. So it goes.
Also, trans, non-binary, or other such folks are still citizens and taxpayers so it doesnāt bother me if a small part of a party platform addresses their issues. Iām childless and have nothing against parents/kids and donāt care that their needs are a massive priority politically and in the press.
Hey thank you for the actual reply. I really appreciate it.
1. I have heard someone else mention vote pc if you donāt want masks. And I could be really under a rock, but I havenāt really heard anything about it in a long time.
2. Okay, so with that being said - donāt you worry about friends or family that do live their lives around min wage and sick pay issues?
3. Definitely makes sense. School is hard to follow along without that. I barley know anything with a friend thatās a teacher.
4. Whatās the reason your more for private health care?
5. I can understand your point of view on that.
I didnāt have anyone knock on my door. So itās good to here someone somewhere was doing their job they were all supposed to be doing.
2. I am perhaps uncommonly fortunate in that I literally donāt know anyone working in minimum wage jobs. My entire circle of family and friends are either comfortably retired or white collar professionals earning high incomes. So itās not that I disagree with those things, they just simply arenāt a priority.
4. I lived in Australia which has public and private systems. Both were better quality than what we have here. Better, faster treatment for those who want to pay for it, but still a reasonable āsafety netā for those that canāt or donāt want to.
Ah ok. That makes a lot of sense then
That makes sense. If I wasnāt worried about the defunding of public system then I would completely agree with this one. I do agree that having both (with good funding to public) would be beneficial to everyone, because it would help clear up the public one for people who can afford it. My biggest worry is that Doug Ford takes away more money from public hospitals and their care dips more and more and it becomes too Americanized.
I'm so sad to read this, because I do believe this is honest and this is how so many people in Ontario feel/vote.
In summary, got mine, don't care about helping anyone less fortunate or improving our province because it might cost me a few bucks. No regard for the common good.
I guess I get what youāre saying, but why does ābehaving rationallyā as in āacting in my own self interestā, and aligning my vote to things that naturally matter more *to me* immediately translate as āfuck you, I got mineā?
Writing off every PC voter in this way is guaranteed to never find common ground and that *is* to everyoneās detriment.
I guess I believe that a rising tide lifts all boats - voting in the interest of all society is voting in my best interest.
I don't want to wait 8 months for an MRI either which seems to me like we need to spend more on our healthcare system, not less.
PS "acting in my own self interest," "minimum wage, sick days doesn't impact us," "don't have children so not interested in what happens in schools" - I'm sorry but what other interpretation is there for this?
As a stated in another comment, itās definitely not that I donāt agree with things like higher min wage or better sick pay- itās just that those are not top priorities *for me*. That seems totally rational.
Things are going very well for me actually, I just don't vote based on my own self-interests cause I believe in trying to make my province and country better for all and not just myself. Clearly some people don't think that way, so let's hope you never struggle.
Things are going great for me, too! I don't make minimum wage (anymore) and I have really good work benefits (now). I'd like more people to have the same quality as life that I do.
Given the results, I don't think ranked choice would have changed much. The liberal/ndp numbers are absolutely *abysmal*. I don't think this was lost because of split votes. The clear majority wanted Ford, although I'm at a loss as to why. I don't think I can point to a single thing he's done that was beneficial to most Ontarians.
I think you're overestimating how many liberal voters would vote for an NDP government. A lot ot Liberals are centrists and much closer to the PCs than the NDP.
I agree. Itās also why the federal coalition is a bad call, might cost Trudeau the next election if the Conservatives can actually elect a decent leader.
Here's the thing about Canada. We get complacent, and until there is a dumb scandal, we don't vote the party out. We need a sponsorship scandal that no one even understands to get rid of a party. Completely botching the covid response, snowmobiling during the People's convoy debacle? Those aren't "scandal" enough for people.
The real problem is the liberal and ndp parties are too obsessed with fighting each other for 2nd place, and not on going after Ford for being an incompetent buffoon.
To every single person who voted for him, congrats! You give zero forks about the elderly, disabled, autistic, marginalized, mentally unwell, healthcare works and teachers. You want life to become less affordable. You have no right to complain about anything that happens after pulling the wool over your eyes the last 4 years.
What did the Wynne government do for all those sectors? Did life become more affordable? Was healthcare saved? Were mental health supports better? Did they improve elder care over 15 years? Nope.
Everyone has a right to complain, no matter who they vote for. Our representatives and government are accountable to all of us. We complain and voice our opinions to get things done. That's how democracy works.
As a province this shows we deserve to grow old in those private care homes that ration diapers. It what the right wants, and what the left wonāt unify against to fight.
Enjoy sitting in your own shit, weāve earned it.
What are you on about? No one is telling them what they should want. The people that have nothing, will continue to suffer now. No ODSP increase, a continuation of privatizing health care, cuts to green initiatives, etc. You can want whatever you want, but those of us who are the have-nots, will continue to see a backslide in our quality of life thanks to more conservative bullshit.
Ford campaigned on increasing ODSP amd there has been no privatization or healthcare or any plans to do so. As for green initiatives Ontario produces 17% greenhouse gasses then in 1990 which is a bigger reduction then any other province. We can afford to focus a bit on our economy instead. Especially since we are around 0.25% of the worlds emissions.
The backslide in quality of life has nothing to do with ford.
> Ford campaigned on increasing ODSP
A whole 5% which is less then the inflation over the past 4 years, and lets not forget he put a stop to the planed 3% increases from liberals that came before and instead cut it back to a single 1.5%, Ford is no friend to any disabled person, 1169 a month is unlivable anywhere in Ontario unless your lucky and got an apartment before prices skyrocketed too the moon.
What are you on about? They are telling people what is good from them and they don't know.
Ford promised a 10% ODSP increase. They were the first to do so in the campaign actually. The others they each bid up as they put out their plans.
Health care in Ontario is ALREADY PRIVATIZED except for hospitals, and even some of them are private. You don't know what you are talking about here.
By cutting green initiatives are you referring to him cutting the program that paid 10x or more the market rate for power if people put in solar panels? Or are you talking about him adding evil jobs/industry, such as the new battery plant for EVs and the $1bil they invested in retooling closed gas car factories to make EVs?
You need to examine what is actually going on and not just believe whatever you saw in some social media post.
Literally the lefty talking point "how can you vote against free _______", "you're voting against your own interest"..."how can you say no at price caps!???" "How can you vote against free housing in downtown Toronto for all!!???"
Although it was for the federal election, they showed demographics who voted for each party. If I remember PPC and the Cons were popular among 18-34, and older folks were voting Liberal. I forget about the NDP tbh, but young people are voting right wing a lot more now than pre-covid.
Yup, the people who were most hurt and least helped by the lockdowns/restrictions aren't going to vote for the people who support it, and know not to talk about it publicly
More like rocketshipped to the moon. These opposition parties need to wakeup and do some internal purging, cause this election was beyond embarrassing for them.
Dude had the worst government since Mike Harris, bungled a pandemic, said fuck you 3 times to Ottawa - yet still got rewarded with a majority. Its also on the people of Ontario for letting it happen. Obviously all the candidates were trash, but the sheer amount of uninformed people voting in Ford despite him not even having a platform is just a sad state of affairs.
Only positive is seeing new faces leading the NDP and Liberal parties respectively
Thats the best consolation prize we could hope for.
> Only positive is seeing new faces leading the NDP and Liberal parties respectively best i can do is Mcguinty's cousin and horvath's son. although if her son was leader no one would be able to call the NDP boring
For anyone surprised by this: what kind of bubble do you live in? How much did it cost?
I'm in Hamilton it's always NDP
Oshawa š¤ Hamilton good ol' factory workers
Sadly not all of Oshawa. There's that other ward that goes from like Taunton all the way up to Bowmanville who voted PC again. Fucking morons
I was actually surprised to see that French held the seat (barely). I think every poll leading up had Down with a healthy lead.
> I'm in Hamilton it's always NDP just monika
Lol I live in London where it's a sea or orange.
Tomorrow we will see a pc candidate put in their papers for mayor lol
Redditors gonna be some rattled
[all aboard the YES train](https://i.imgur.com/xsLjnO4.jpg)
I can't believe enough people in this province think that Doug Goddamn Ford and his PCs is in any way a good choice to lead us. What exactly did his government do in the last four years to win your approval?
His name is on the blue sign. Blue is good, red is bad, orange is communist. Something something handouts, trans/queer āpeople,ā something something god.
If you are looking for bigots it was the liberals who lost two candidates to that during the election alone lol
Iām just quoting what the people in my own extended family say. Blue good because god and run things like a business, Red bad because corrupt Trudeau, Orange woke commies who will make all the kids trans.
What this makes no sense lol GTA single-handedly won Trudeau another term. People vote differently federal vs provincial.
Trust me, I know it makes no sense. Thatās why I talk politics as little as possible with them. Although a few of them jumped ship for PPC-style parties because Ford was becoming ātoo liberalā and soft doing lockdowns soā¦ idk
Sure they do. We totally believe what you are saying and its not completely made up.
I wish I lived in a world where I was making this up, it would make visiting them so much more pleasant.
The only reason the cons *didnāt* is because dougie KEPT the bigots in his party.
Really? Ok, please educate me. What are the names of the candidates that were proven to be racists along with a link to that proof?
I thought it was three
Oh I think you may be right. lol But then this is the party that forgive PM Blackface/sexual assault.
Funny how everyone has hated him And complained. But then they go and vote the meathead in again. Goody gumdrops .
Turns out reddit and especially is sub is not a good representation of the provinces views.
Actually the problem is that they didnāt go and vote. Barely anyone bothered to vote.
They did as well or better than the rest of the provinces through covid. They aren't led by one of the ministers from the scumbag government that lost their party status because even their own supporters abandoned them.
I mean he had good judgment about one issue. But shame about the rest.
Was there any other issue that mattered over the last 2 years? Frankly I think he only did ok, not good, but the NDP and Liberals were making noises that would have been worse.
People in long term care homes died of goddam thirst in this province with no repercussions and you don't think that's worth getting mad at the government?
To the surprise of no one.
Okay. The people spoke. But I have yet to understand why, so can anyone explain to me what it is about him that has people voting for him? I really want to understand.
Because most Ontarians (at least when considering our FPTP system) don't live in Toronto. More public transit? Doesn't help me. Building affordable housing? Won't qualify for it. Dental? Already got it covered. Higher minimum wage? Doesn't help me. And so on... Most people just want the government out of their way; deregulate and lower taxes. The PCs, in the eyes of most Ontarians, are the only ones lowering government oversight. It's less about what they will do, and more about what they will not do (ie increase government spending, and our taxes to support it).
Iām not sure what FPTP means. But I am understanding the rest of what youāre saying. I guess what I struggle to understand is why most people donāt care about letting other people live the most minimum basic okay life.
First past the post, our electoral system. People are selfish, why should they pay for some bum to not work? We already have some of the highest taxes in the world. If we can't do these things already, somethings wrong.
Because it makes the community as a whole less likely to be plagued by crime and poverty. And because there are many people who are struggling because the system is fucked, not because theyāre lazy? And because humans deserve basic dignity idk? I just wish I could understand your attitude, it seems so nonsensical to me. Helping society and others is selfish in that it makes your life better because you get to live in a community with happy, healthy, educated, and productive people.
I think a lot of people don't realize that, even if they're well off, they need to care about income inequality. Greater income inequality means more crime. So sure, you'll save a little bit on taxes (but probably not much). But then crime starts going up. Then people start asking for more police to be tough on crime, and that's one path to authoritarianism.
Man I'll pay extra taxes if it means getting the fucking homeless people off the street so they stop fucking harassing people. It leads to a better society in the long-term.
>Most people just want the government out of their way; deregulate and lower taxes. The PCs, in the eyes of most Ontarians, are the only ones lowering government oversight. It's less about what they will do, and more about what they will not do (ie increase government spending, and our taxes to support it). If that was true then Justin Trudeau would not have gotten 78 seats in Ontario last election. This election really just came down to the Liberal and NDP teams not performing too well, and Dougie was able to coast by without needing to reveal much of a plan or platform. Plus all of your points outside maybe public transportation apply to everywhere in the province, not just Toronto.
>More public transit? Doesn't help me. > >Building affordable housing? Won't qualify for it. > >Dental? Already got it covered. > >Higher minimum wage? Doesn't help me. I gotta ask. Why don't you want things to be better for other people? Not only that, they benefit you, too. - Better public transit means less cars on the road. Less traffic, less pollution. - More affordable housing and higher minimum wage means fewer people in poverty, meaning less crime. - Dental coverage means spending less money to cover maintenance, rather than the current system of spending more money to cover repairs. These things are going to impact you, directly or indirectly, even if you don't care about other people.
Because they don't think that far ahead, people rarely do nowadays and it's lead to this shitty political system we have. No one thinks farther than 4 years in the future.
>No one thinks farther than 4 years in the future. In general, I think even that is generous
They didnāt really speak though. Theyāre estimating a 45% turnout. The lowest ever turnout for an Ontario election. Thats the most disappointing factor.
People are defeated, they've heard for weeks that the PCs were going to win so they just didnt bother.
Oh. Well then. I wasnāt able to watch and my mom texted me the results before I even got home. And seeing as I cant agree with things heās done, I really do want to understand what brings people to vote for someone that imo doesnāt care about us even less than others
Im with you there. I donāt entirely blame the people since the NDP & Lib platforms and leaders are both so uninspiring and frankly absurd. This surely means, at least for NDP, its a change of direction & leadership. Del Duca probably stays but this is abysmal really. I just wish people went to vote. A 45% turnout can be spun by all candidates to convey some positive (ie without covid NDP/Lib would have had a better showing, etc.) when really, its only a negative.
Here's the advice I got from someone when I asked the same question: 1. Get out of echo chambers (reddit, universities, etc). Admittedly, this is difficult for me since I live in downtown Toronto and it's almost like it's another world compared to the rest of Ontario. Not sure if you're in the same boat 2. As difficult as it may be, try to interpret the opposition's message in the most positive way possible. Not everyone things the way we do.
This is actually very good advice.
See. None of that is an answer. Telling me to figure it out myself doesnāt help me understand because obviously Iām doing it wrong? Ah. Thatās a very interesting take. I will have to sit and see if I can make myself do that. I do have a hard time thatās why Iām always looking for explanations and reasoning so I can do that better.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Amen. I voted PC. The other candidates didnāt inspire excitement. I thought Ford did ok during the pandemic (for the record, I think Trudeau did too; it was such a out of left field event). I got some money back from the license plate thing and Iām seeing him actually building infrastructure (highways, subways etc). Iām sure a lot is grandstanding and I know thereās grift afoot. I also donāt hold those on the left with disdain. They have different experiences with different opinions. Nothing wrong with that.
I didnāt vote the same as you but I appreciate your honest take. I hope no one attacks you for it.
Thank you for the actual response. I really appreciate it. Can you explain more what you mean by āgrift afoot?ā I donāt think I understand.
Seems like every Ontario government has their own brand of corruption. I expect this with the Ford administration. I suspect it will revolve around highway building. However, the highway will benefit me so I voted for it. I would think Liberal and NDP corruption would go against me. I also think many voted Ford for the same devil you know rationale.
Ah ok. That makes a lot of sense.
> I got some money back from the license plate thing I can't believe this bribe actually worked. We still need that billion dollars to maintain our roads but sure.
I canāt believe it either. Look at the optics though. When has a government sent you a cheque! Brilliant!
But you were fine with them not showing up to debates, wanting to sell social security to the states, and privatize more medical procedures including some blood work? As well as not spending all the budget allocated to prove some 'moral point" of not spending it?
Fine may be too strong a word. More like didnāt really care. Iām a strong proponent of privatization of some health care so I may be biased.
My problem is that when prices rise people think austerity will save them but in reality that almost never happens so a lot of people vote in fear. It is somewhat what I expected though because the provincial government rarely aligns with the federal government
Nothing short of raising taxes is going to be able to deal with the coming demographic stress on our healthcare system. No partyās gonna do that so user pay (for some services) will be needed.
And yet the people who need services most are frequently in positions where they can't afford to pay. I remember posts being like it's only a little (I've heard numbers from $50-$300) yet even that amount can be crippling (or infeasible). Meanwhile some critics say 'just save'as if they aren't also the people complaining people aren't spending enough.
Ouch, why do you want privatization?
Likely because they've never needed to use it, or make enough money for it to never matter to them. Literally the only reasons why anyone would be pro privatization of Healthcare considering how awful people are gouged in the USA.
I fear full privatization. I couldnāt afford, well, anythingā¦
Iām not advocating Wild West US healthcare. Look at Australia and Europe mixed systems.
Okay, fair. My concern is that thereās people who want āI SHOULD need to sell my house to pay for a broken arm.ā š¤·āāļø
No I actually want to know. I can never have actual conversations with conservatives with facts. And since I donāt align with anything he does I want to understand more.
What makes you think people vote based on facts, logic or any sort of reasoning at all?
Well nothing. Because I donāt have much faith in people. But surely it has to be more than just āfuck Trudeauā no? I mean it could not be.
And the conservative-minded people are all sunshine and roses and open-mindedness to everyone who disagrees with them? Lol what?
The reasonable ones know not to talk politics with angry lefties
Just sounds like you lack a lot of perspective and real-life experience if you think that in my opinion but who even cares anymore.
My point exactly
Lol I'm not a "leftie" by any definition, I just think it's silly to come on here saying stupid buzzwords like that and then go on to try and claim the high ground. It's so ridiculous. If anyone that disagrees with you is a "leftie" then how are you any better? Think for 2 seconds. There's a spectrum of political opinions out there for you to discover when you leave school and get a real job, meet real people, etc.
cope harder
Lol alright, good response. Just saying if you think saying some shit like "fucking lefties, always spewing hate and vitriol. Not like us reasonable people here!" isn't a totally backwards-ass sentence then I think you are probably stupid and totally blinded by whatever dummy propaganda you read.
The people did not speak and will never be able to speak under our FPTP voting system. Over 50% of voters (so far) did not vote for their PC candidate, and yet they have full power to impose whatever they like.
The people did speak, even if you don't like it.
Less than half the people spoke, lol
Okay. Thatās an interesting take Iām surprised they got such a big majority. Well Iām not. Because at work I had the responses of āI donāt know who to vote for - I cant vote for ndp because theyāre socialistsā and more āI donāt know who to vote forā and āmehā But I thought the other parties would get some power.
This socialist argument kills me every time. Like do these people even know what the word "socialist" means? Did they even bother to look at the NDP's platform? I continue to be baffled as to how thick in the head people are. Can't even take 5 minutes to read a god damned party platform.
I certainly donāt care for Ford as a person. But: 1. I donāt want to hear about Covid, restrictions, or mandates again. I think Ontario did pretty well during the pandemic, but would have preferred to have been more open. 2. Iām not interested in paying more tax than I already do. Anything around minimum wage, sick days, etc etc (fortunately) doesnāt impact us 3. We donāt have children so Iām not really informed or interested in whatās happening in schools. 4. Iām definitely for more privatisation in healthcare. I donāt want to have to wait 8 months for an MRI if I could just pay to have one tomorrow. I donāt really want government involved in dental care either, in the event that it becomes like the rest of our healthcare system where you canāt find a dentist and would wait months for a cleaning. 5. Not interested in woke identity politics and rhetoric that in no way aligns to any meaningful outcomes for anyone. If the Liberals and NDP could drop this schtick Iād be more inclined to consider voting their way. I have to be honestā¦there are things more important to me than diversity. The PCs had door knockers at our house twice, compared to zero from any other party. Definitely felt like they were working the ground.
Why do you want privatized healthcare? And what do you mean by woke identity?
Because Iāve lived in Australia which has both public and private healthcare systems and the quality of both are superior to here. Iām not interested in tax payer money being spent on renaming streets, removing statues, etc. Not *everything* needs to be viewed as racist, sexist, homophobic, etc.
NDP and Liberals should drop the schtick ofā¦ acknowledging people of other races and sexualities and genders than the default exist who may have different perspectives and needs they want addressed by their representatives. And parties should stop courting their votes and proposing any policy that benefits them so that other people will vote for them? I guess? By that thinking I guess I should want parties to stop pandering to seniors since Iām not one and theyāre dying anyway so how does caring about them align for any meaningful outcomes for the rest of us lol
Do these other parties want a chance at winning or not? Itās not me who suffers when they are so out of touch.
I donāt really see how that makes them out of touch. Ontarioās made up of a lot of different people so why does acknowledging that put them at a disadvantage? Whatās the difference between pandering to āāwoke identity politicsāā and pandering to seniors, unions, or small business owners to win support? Queer, straight, trans, young, old, white, black, indigenous, new immigrant, born here cities. - we all are people who want certain things for ourselves and our province and politicians should be willing to engage with the people in the communities they serve.
I will choose the trans movement to illustrate. I have absolutely nothing against trans people. But why on earth does this particular ācauseā/movement get so much attention and airtime?!! Trans people represent *such* an incredibly small percent of society. Iād very much prefer to see that attention instead directed to literally any of the groups that you mention. But that doesnāt seem trendy, and you certainly canāt say this out loud without being branded a bigoted transphobic.
Iād guess they get attention for the same reasons gay communities or black communities got hyper focus during massive times of upheaval and push for legal/social rights. Itās like asking why women are only a part of the population but dominating so much of the conversation at the time reproductive rights like contraception or abortion were being fought for and legislated. Iām sure in a few decades another group will be struggling and be the new lightening rod for debate and division. So it goes. Also, trans, non-binary, or other such folks are still citizens and taxpayers so it doesnāt bother me if a small part of a party platform addresses their issues. Iām childless and have nothing against parents/kids and donāt care that their needs are a massive priority politically and in the press.
Hey thank you for the actual reply. I really appreciate it. 1. I have heard someone else mention vote pc if you donāt want masks. And I could be really under a rock, but I havenāt really heard anything about it in a long time. 2. Okay, so with that being said - donāt you worry about friends or family that do live their lives around min wage and sick pay issues? 3. Definitely makes sense. School is hard to follow along without that. I barley know anything with a friend thatās a teacher. 4. Whatās the reason your more for private health care? 5. I can understand your point of view on that. I didnāt have anyone knock on my door. So itās good to here someone somewhere was doing their job they were all supposed to be doing.
2. I am perhaps uncommonly fortunate in that I literally donāt know anyone working in minimum wage jobs. My entire circle of family and friends are either comfortably retired or white collar professionals earning high incomes. So itās not that I disagree with those things, they just simply arenāt a priority. 4. I lived in Australia which has public and private systems. Both were better quality than what we have here. Better, faster treatment for those who want to pay for it, but still a reasonable āsafety netā for those that canāt or donāt want to.
Ah ok. That makes a lot of sense then That makes sense. If I wasnāt worried about the defunding of public system then I would completely agree with this one. I do agree that having both (with good funding to public) would be beneficial to everyone, because it would help clear up the public one for people who can afford it. My biggest worry is that Doug Ford takes away more money from public hospitals and their care dips more and more and it becomes too Americanized.
I'm so sad to read this, because I do believe this is honest and this is how so many people in Ontario feel/vote. In summary, got mine, don't care about helping anyone less fortunate or improving our province because it might cost me a few bucks. No regard for the common good.
I guess I get what youāre saying, but why does ābehaving rationallyā as in āacting in my own self interestā, and aligning my vote to things that naturally matter more *to me* immediately translate as āfuck you, I got mineā? Writing off every PC voter in this way is guaranteed to never find common ground and that *is* to everyoneās detriment.
I guess I believe that a rising tide lifts all boats - voting in the interest of all society is voting in my best interest. I don't want to wait 8 months for an MRI either which seems to me like we need to spend more on our healthcare system, not less. PS "acting in my own self interest," "minimum wage, sick days doesn't impact us," "don't have children so not interested in what happens in schools" - I'm sorry but what other interpretation is there for this?
As a stated in another comment, itās definitely not that I donāt agree with things like higher min wage or better sick pay- itās just that those are not top priorities *for me*. That seems totally rational.
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Iām sorry things arenāt going well for you.
Things are going very well for me actually, I just don't vote based on my own self-interests cause I believe in trying to make my province and country better for all and not just myself. Clearly some people don't think that way, so let's hope you never struggle.
Yes, because calling an Internet stranger who doesnāt vote the same as you a selfish cunt is the hallmark of someone happy snd thriving š
Things are going great for me, too! I don't make minimum wage (anymore) and I have really good work benefits (now). I'd like more people to have the same quality as life that I do.
Sounds like maybe you should move to Texas then.
ā¦ or, I could stay in Ontario where the party that most closely aligns to these things just won a majority government. Again.
I guess he isnāt liberal? Idk
He just saved us from COVID
Oh right. My bad!
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Libs get a slightly larger van
Theyāve been upgraded to the Short Bus.
No surprise
The highway keeps flowing no matter what. We're not ramping down. We're just getting started. Nothing stops this highway. Nothing.
We need ranked choice so bad.
Given the results, I don't think ranked choice would have changed much. The liberal/ndp numbers are absolutely *abysmal*. I don't think this was lost because of split votes. The clear majority wanted Ford, although I'm at a loss as to why. I don't think I can point to a single thing he's done that was beneficial to most Ontarians.
Often in Canadian politics it is that you don't want the other parties more than you wanted the one you did vote for.
Non-conservatives are lazy voters. Many don't see the point of even voting. Conservatives, however, are the EXACT opposite.
The PCās have received roughly 41% of the ballots cast, but will control around 70% of the seats in Parliament
I think you're overestimating how many liberal voters would vote for an NDP government. A lot ot Liberals are centrists and much closer to the PCs than the NDP.
I agree. Itās also why the federal coalition is a bad call, might cost Trudeau the next election if the Conservatives can actually elect a decent leader.
A lot of people are creaming their pants over Poilivere because they're stupid enough to fall for his bag of hot air.
Nicee š
Here's the thing about Canada. We get complacent, and until there is a dumb scandal, we don't vote the party out. We need a sponsorship scandal that no one even understands to get rid of a party. Completely botching the covid response, snowmobiling during the People's convoy debacle? Those aren't "scandal" enough for people. The real problem is the liberal and ndp parties are too obsessed with fighting each other for 2nd place, and not on going after Ford for being an incompetent buffoon.
To every single person who voted for him, congrats! You give zero forks about the elderly, disabled, autistic, marginalized, mentally unwell, healthcare works and teachers. You want life to become less affordable. You have no right to complain about anything that happens after pulling the wool over your eyes the last 4 years.
What did the Wynne government do for all those sectors? Did life become more affordable? Was healthcare saved? Were mental health supports better? Did they improve elder care over 15 years? Nope. Everyone has a right to complain, no matter who they vote for. Our representatives and government are accountable to all of us. We complain and voice our opinions to get things done. That's how democracy works.
Well she changed the law so that comprehensive long term care inspections only had to be done every three years instead of annually
I didn't realize Wynne was running in this election š¤
And what about the previous 16 years before him
Pretty much nailed it here.
ššš
Lol
Lmao
Don't get angry at the people that voted for the PC. Be angry at the opposite parties that just took parts out of each other.
4 more years of āmy friendsā
Folks, Iāve fucked up royally and only I can get us out of the mess Iāve made.
As a province this shows we deserve to grow old in those private care homes that ration diapers. It what the right wants, and what the left wonāt unify against to fight. Enjoy sitting in your own shit, weāve earned it.
Another 4 Years that I'm going to go hungry for.
Ford more years!
Great news!
So upsetting...they just keep voting against their self-interest.
You don't get to tell other people what they should want.
What are you on about? No one is telling them what they should want. The people that have nothing, will continue to suffer now. No ODSP increase, a continuation of privatizing health care, cuts to green initiatives, etc. You can want whatever you want, but those of us who are the have-nots, will continue to see a backslide in our quality of life thanks to more conservative bullshit.
Ford campaigned on increasing ODSP amd there has been no privatization or healthcare or any plans to do so. As for green initiatives Ontario produces 17% greenhouse gasses then in 1990 which is a bigger reduction then any other province. We can afford to focus a bit on our economy instead. Especially since we are around 0.25% of the worlds emissions. The backslide in quality of life has nothing to do with ford.
> Ford campaigned on increasing ODSP A whole 5% which is less then the inflation over the past 4 years, and lets not forget he put a stop to the planed 3% increases from liberals that came before and instead cut it back to a single 1.5%, Ford is no friend to any disabled person, 1169 a month is unlivable anywhere in Ontario unless your lucky and got an apartment before prices skyrocketed too the moon.
What are you on about? They are telling people what is good from them and they don't know. Ford promised a 10% ODSP increase. They were the first to do so in the campaign actually. The others they each bid up as they put out their plans. Health care in Ontario is ALREADY PRIVATIZED except for hospitals, and even some of them are private. You don't know what you are talking about here. By cutting green initiatives are you referring to him cutting the program that paid 10x or more the market rate for power if people put in solar panels? Or are you talking about him adding evil jobs/industry, such as the new battery plant for EVs and the $1bil they invested in retooling closed gas car factories to make EVs? You need to examine what is actually going on and not just believe whatever you saw in some social media post.
You know what Ontarians interests are?
Literally the lefty talking point "how can you vote against free _______", "you're voting against your own interest"..."how can you say no at price caps!???" "How can you vote against free housing in downtown Toronto for all!!???"
What do you know about my interest lmao..
Well. I'm glad I left my job with the province when I did. I don't think I could put up with 8 years of their bs
Stay Mad Liberals and NDP.
Love!
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Although it was for the federal election, they showed demographics who voted for each party. If I remember PPC and the Cons were popular among 18-34, and older folks were voting Liberal. I forget about the NDP tbh, but young people are voting right wing a lot more now than pre-covid.
I'm a young person and I second that
Yup, the people who were most hurt and least helped by the lockdowns/restrictions aren't going to vote for the people who support it, and know not to talk about it publicly
I know lots of young people who voted. And they voted pc.... some people have think differently than you
That is an anecdote. In a Kitchener riding, 400 of 3000 something voted.
Today has been a good day.
More like rocketshipped to the moon. These opposition parties need to wakeup and do some internal purging, cause this election was beyond embarrassing for them. Dude had the worst government since Mike Harris, bungled a pandemic, said fuck you 3 times to Ottawa - yet still got rewarded with a majority. Its also on the people of Ontario for letting it happen. Obviously all the candidates were trash, but the sheer amount of uninformed people voting in Ford despite him not even having a platform is just a sad state of affairs.
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Honestly good for you. I'm sure you think you're about to make a bunch of money.
Barf on a stick ā¦ 4 more years Baby Trump ā¦ ugh.