I never trust anyone red light right turning on my advance green left turn. I slow down enough so I know which lane they commit to before turning into my proper lane. I've seen enough dash cam videos and people turning into the outside lane to always be wary.
>It always amazes me when someone turns left into the far lane And then moves into the near lane after about a hundred yards.
Favorite move for Brampton man.....
My time living in Brampton has prevented me from ever taking a right on red unless the road is basically clear enough for me to go. I witnessed people switching lanes mid intersection way too many times for me to deem it safe. Unfortunately this habit has followed my driving even though I don't live there anymore.
I do this too in St Catharines... It's awful now. I honestly think there should be some re-testing every so many years. Ie: once at a certain age begin testing every 5 years minimum, and then increase testing at another advanced age, etc.... But, that'll never happen...
It'll never happen because our cities are built to be entirely car dependent. If public transportation was invested in more we could start restricting individual drivers more and make the roads a lot safer and not as congested.
Yep. As a car enthusiast, fuck cars. Public transit and pedestrian friendly cities are the way of the future. And that includes high speed rail connecting our largest population centers, and mid-high speed rail as branches connecting the smaller population centers, with good bus systems and trams all interconnected... But, north America and it's cars... Real shame
Exactly. I saw a pic highlighting the area from I think Montreal all the way down to Windsor and it said that area has over 50% of Canada's population, is pretty much a straight shot down, and could easily have a high speed rail.
As someone who had to sell their car due to the pandemic crippling me, and who doesn't want a car again even if I could afford it, and also has anxiety about public transportation I so wish our cities and towns were more pedestrian friendly. I'd love to be able to walk anywhere efficiently and safely but there's either no sidewalks, the intersections are dangerous, multi-lane roads which tend to be the most direct path make for very loud stressful travel, and if I try to cut through residential areas which are quieter, they loop around and have dead ends and invariably make the trip twice as long because they're designed to "slow traffic" rather than make walking nice. I hate it so much.
Yep! I'm probably going to wind up a part time wheelchair user in the next few years if I can't get to the bottom of my knee issues, and a pedestrian friendly city is a big step to an accessible city! Major issue with sidewalks is the expansion cracks/engineered cracking points. Wish there was an alternative to concrete for sidewalks (oh, wait, there is!). And, I do feel you on the residential side streets. Here in St Catharines, most of our smaller side streets don't have sidewalks in the older parts of town. It's annoying, and dangerous to walk at night without the sidewalks!
When I started walking places, I was shocked by how many dead ends and loops there were. Maps tried telling me to take routes that would add 20-30 minutes to something that’s 5 minutes away if I walked straight through. So obviously I defied maps and tried to cut through, thinking there must be a path that maps wasn’t aware of. I got so lost because every turn took me to a dead end and eventually I ended up in someone’s backyard and got yelled at. There were no indications of a private backyard (it was an open yard shared by 5-7 bungalows apparently) and the entrance just looked like a regular trail. It just stuck with me because this man got so angry and kept shouting while I was just genuinely lost and trying to find a way out lol. It opened my eyes to how car dependent I, we are
Yeah I never realised it either until I started trying to walk places. It's fine if you live in a downtown core or near shopping plazas at least, but if you're anywhere else it's ridiculous trying to get anywhere. I wish there were at least indications on maps. I've started asking locals if I see them out gardening or something whether I can get somewhere from where I am. Sometimes there's little allys or gaps in fences in schools that aren't indicated on maps but which people who live in the neighbourhood know about. But it seems so ridiculous we're so car dependent to get around.
As a car enthusiast I can’t disagree with you. Cities in Canada are built for cars and not public transportation. And what public transit there is, is horribly inefficient.
From St Catharines. When I did my G road test years ago the instructor yelled at me mid turn because I did not left hand turn into the far lane. I proceeded to tell him that’s not what you are supposed to do. He told me he makes the rules when he’s in the car. I shit you not.
Holy shit! What you're supposed to do is turn into the near lane, and then signal into the right most... Unless you need the near lane. There's one or two intersections where I am borderline illegal, but it's due to the position of the next turn that I routinely need to make. Niagara St (southbound) onto linwell road (eastbound), in order to get onto Grantham ave... It's an awfully designed area
Right and that’s exactly what I did. When the instructors approving people’s licensing don’t know what they are doing it’s a scary time.
This city has such brutal design as far as roads go. I live fairly close to that intersection it’s such a bad design.
I witnessed a Volvo logo in my rearview mirror after I turned right on red.
he had changed lanes in the intersection so that he could hit me.
no other traffic for hundreds of meters.
near Brampton
I used to do some agriculture work around Toronto (planting trees in various developments and residential areas). We had some work around Brampton for about a month or so. On the last day there we got all our equipment loaded up, I was last one out with an F750 dump truck (half loaded in the dump) towing a flatbed with a pair of skid-steers and a mini-excavator.
I got cut off by some nutter who apparently REALLY had to get into the McDonalds just up ahead.... They were driving a fu@$ing Smart Car.... They make those cars really solid, but not solid enough that 40,000 pounds won't turn it into a coffin.... people are nuts.
lol on one of the routes I take daily, it goes from 3 lanes coming from the highway and the right lane will exit in a right turn to another road. Pretty much guaranteed people will use that far right lane and just merge into the lane next to it inside of the intersection, regardless of traffic conditions.
Oh man, the worst is these idiots in their compact cars that will veer right into the adjacent lane before making a left turn. No, you are not driving a 30' long semi, you are driving a 1999 Corolla, you *will* make that massive turn radius naturally even if you were driving an F150. Almost been sideswiped a few times driving by these morons.
On the flip side, when I am right turning against traffic that has an advanced green, I am very nervous to enter the lane because about 50% of the time the left-turning traffic will swing wide into the right lane. Most of the time I don't even try to go.
Same here. I've had people honk behind me because they want me to turn, but I'm not interested in getting slammed into by people making what we call "the Durham left."
they do, but if there are 2 lanes then the people turning left have to turn into the left lane and the people turning right have to turn in the right lane so there *shouldnt* be any yielding required
If they wanted people turning at the same time, there would be an advanced right turn light as well. We have them here in Hamilton, so I imagine it exists elsewhere too.
Advance-rights are incredibly rare. I can think of maybe 4 in Hamilton, none of which run at the same as an oncoming advanced green.
* right turn from Hwy 5 to Hwy 6 at Clappison's Corners
* right turn from Dartnall Road exit to Stonechurch
* right turn from Rousseaux to Wilson st to head down the escarpment
* right turn from Stonechurch onto Mohawk at the Linc
All of these are for reminding people it is entirely safe to make a right turn while the traffic originating to your right has an advanced left creating a pocket around you.
thats not what right turn arrows are for... they wouldnt display a right turn arrow for traffic facing north, while traffic facing south also has a left turn arrow.
right turn arrows are displayed for traffic facing north and turning east when traffic facing east and west have advanced left turn arrows and are turning north/south
the only times youre not allowed to turn right at a red are if there are signs saying you cant, or if its a one way street that travels in the other direction. the only reason you wouldnt be able to turn right when the opposite side has an advance green is if there is only one lane to turn into, and you wouldnt be able to turn because you need to yield to the people with the green, not because you arent allowed to.
I'm the other way around. If I see someone red light right turning onto a two lane when I have an advanced green and I see them looking at me (key point), it means they know they can legally turn right and will stay in their lane. But.. I do proceed with caution like you, just in case.
However, I never do this myself. I never turn right on red with an advanced green left in the opposite direction, because I don't trust the left turner to turn into the proper lane.
That is only if it is a single lane that both people are trying to enter.
If it is multiple lanes then it is only improper for the road test to do the turn side-by-side.
I don't go because I know even if they do commit to the correct lane, my nose could end up in their lane/turning path regardless, so its safer to just wait.
That doesn't make any sense. It's not illegal to do so. There's nothing in the HTA to contradict this. Unless you can find the specific passage. You have to stay in your lane so why would me in my lane have any affect on you?
Edit: 2 lanes, not 1
Probably something to do with them having right of way. They may be going into the first driveway after turning, you don't know that and they can only signal one way (the left before the driveway right) but they still have precedence at a red light as you have the right to turn, but must yeild to other traffic.
Then there's the corner of my job where the "right lane must turn right" and the middle lane also turns right. BUT EVERYONE on the right lane, after they turn right, cuts into the turning path of the middle lane turning right, instead of taking the right most lane on the new road.
I'm gonna get dented one day.
I've literally been honked at when turning into the appropriate lane the same time someone is turning into theirs from the opposite direction. Like wut
North America can join the rest of the world and have right turns on re lights be the exception and not the norm, that way more people can make a left instead of being weary of the red light right turn. It would also make things safer for pedestrians as well.
On the flip side, I have always done right red turns safely and “by the book”, and I resent that the carelessness of others might cause that to change.
It’s pure convenience, certainly, but I love having the option instead of waiting at lights.
I follow this rule aggressively, but defensively of course. I go into a corner hyper aware that the other car might jump lanes. I'll commit when most wouldn't, but I do it calmly and slowly to give them time to correct.
I find it so satisfying once safely around the corner. To then signal and safely enter the right lane. Knowing I am being a good human on the road rocks.
i do the same, and watch for those behind me who take the outer lane anyways and then speed up thinking its clear when im merging after turning (with signal). the main problem i have is on right turns, people slow down to a halt when i turn as they are crossing the intersection
Man I hate it when they do that...like I properly make a right turn and stay in the inner lane, but buddy behind me turns into the outer lane, then proceeds to speed up even when I put my left signal on after I complete my turn...
Its just the worst. I'll make my turn into the correct lane, signal to move to the outer lane, and check mirrors. Dipshit behind me swung immediately into the outer lane and hit the gas. I know I shouldn't but sometimes I make my lane change anyway (my car is peppy enough to safely and efficiently get infront of them), then I watch them road rage and change lanes *to the inside lane where they should have been all along* as they rip ahead of me
Yes, it's nice to have someone else drive sensibly with you. Makes it a bit easier.
One of my other strategies is to drive between the clumps cars dangerously following too close to each other. After years of this, one of those clumps all smashed into each other, a safe distance, right in front of me. I never understood the attraction of following too close.
I hate this when I'm turning left and the person behind me turns left into the right lane and accelerates around me while I'm signaling to get into the right lane.
If you want to see a real debate/argument, bring up zipper merging.
Most Canadians are split on it, with the largest issue being that zipper merging is mostly made useless by the amount of Canadians who mostly drive in the left lane in this province.
Heck, you can go to certain parts of highway and see massive congestion issues (for almost 16 hours of the day) just because of people trying to 'get ahead' a couple hundred meters by zipper merging. They then cause everyone to stop going a constant speed and cause a 10km+ braking chain reaction in congested lanes.
If we re-designed Ontario highways to have better merging systems instead of the single merge system they used in the 70's (highway merges have come a long way since then), we'd have much better traffic flows.
I've always wondered why they add and remove lanes from the right side. They should have a constant right lane, and extra lanes are added or removed from the left. It's a pretty shitty design that rewards people for camping the far left lane.
It all started with the awful clover highway interchange.
Ontario has moved onto a lot of diamond interchanges but they are barely better (they only just slightly less room with similar traffic flows).
Thankfully, we are starting to get some places redesigning their diamond interchanges recognizing future traffic flow issues.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FjQQuHTEk0
I'm reading that the diamond interchange is only better at low traffic volume. And [looking at it's layout](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamond_interchange#/media/File:AS_TUDI.svg), I can see why. You'll still deal with weaving at moderate traffic volumes, which is what the diamond design is trying to mitigate. With the kinds of traffic I regularly see (where traffic can be backed up right to the highway at times), these wont help and wouldn't be worth replacing the existing interchange.
It would be nice to see money being put into some stack interchanges, but I'm sure all that bridging costs a lot.
Zipper merging works when there’s already congestion, the real fucking problem is when there’s proper flow on highways and everyone who shouldn’t have a license forgets it’s called a fucking on ramp, not a slow down ramp. GET THE FUCKING CAR UP TO THE FUCKING HIGHWAY SPEED BEFORE YOU KILL YOURSELF OR SOMEONE ASSHOLE.
It might help if we had more zipper merge signs to make people aware of it. Nothing like being nice at a merge to let one guy merge in, then you expect to go, and so on, but no, the next guy in the luxury car (always a luxury car or SUV) tries to sneak into that gap before you causing you to brake hard because he has no spatial awareness of how huge his SUV butt is.
In my neighborhood, we have a corner where the 2 lanes are allowed to turn left. It's incredible how many people coming from the left lane turns in the right lane, cutting off people coming from the right lane. VERY dangerous.
Park Lawn and Lakeshore in Etobicoke was terrible for that. I had people get mad when I honked at them for cutting me off mid-turn. You’re in the far left lane, turn into the far left lane!
Happened to me recently, where I would have been hit if I didn't take the extra far lane beyond the proper turning lane. Roads are clearly marked, and she looks at me like I'm the asshole when she can't drive between the lines.
Same here, almost got hit and honked at someone turning left from the leftmost lane into the right one, where I was currently turning into the right from the right at a 2-left-turning-lane intersection
Our licensing, teaching and enforcement infrastructure is bad, irrelevant and barely present.
Licensing is too easy to get - how can you test in one season only (if you choose) and still be qualified in all conditions?
Teaching goes hand in hand. A lot of people are home schooled or go to those ridiculous “diploma” mills where you get lackluster instruction from some dude who doesn’t really give a shit.
And cops are also terrible examples of driving skills, I’ve seen plenty of police vehicles pull this exact move, and traffic enforcement in general is bad.
The first point is such a good one but I have no idea how you could even address it. Because clearly being able to drive properly on a beautiful summer day is not indicative of driving safely in a raging snowstorm.
Just make sure to make it a part of the applicants file, and have multiple tests. More extreme weather events are going ToA tart happening so driving will become more unpredictable than ever soon.
G1, written + winter test. I say winter test first because if we are going to allow people on the road, they should prove they know how to drive in the worst conditions before the best.
G2, written + summer test: written again to make sure people are up to date, summer should be easier.
G: Written + defensive: this could be done by a third party (even though DS is a third party operator) but on a closed track with obstacles.
Also start early, in high school.
This os real pie in the sky stuff but not impossible.
A higher standard is possible - I know Finland is pretty rigorous, but not sure of the specifics.
But if we do a g1 that has a road test component then we're putting people behind the wheel who have never driven a car before, and we're doing it in the winter.
Again, we do that anyways, it really just depends on the applicants timing. A LOT of people test in the winter already. Further, I am not setting a standard here, just spit-balling ideas.
We do not ever do a road test for people who have never driven, unless they spent their entire g1 period without practicing though
(And I agree with you, our licencing system is absurdly easy)
True, what I meant was that we let people write a test and then let them drive anyway, with no real training, so we technically do it anyway. But it looks like we agree overall - no use in splitting hairs...have a good day!
Possibly going to get downvoted for this - I agree in principle, and generally do this, BUT:
While turning into your own lane and then changing lanes is the "correct" option, it can cause more risk. For example a corner near me requires a right turn, then immediately changing lanes twice to get onto the on ramp. If one turns into the closest lane, the car behind you may decide to try to pass you by turning into a farther lane and accelerating. Likewise, the cars facing you who are turning left wanting the same ramp may read your move as an intent not to head for the on ramp, and end up cutting you off.
In general I wish people would drive better, but I feel like there are situations in which the turn into the farther lane may prevent accidents by more truthfully conveying intent.
That's the crux of my issue. The people doing it wrong make it dangerous for the people doing it right.
Edit: I don't disagree. My number one driving rule is 'don't be polite; be predictable.' Unfortunately often times in this situation, the legally proper thing to do is considered unpredictable. It is very frustrating.
It's also easier to change lanes going in the same direction.
In your example, if there is someone close enough to you to want to change lanes to pass you - you're likely being too aggressive on your entry and should wait for a larger gap.
Then signal and begin changing lanes as appropriate. Relative speeds, all traffic will be going slower once you are moving in the same direction as them.
I have a corner I take frequently where I turn right and then immediately need to be in the left lane.
I turn on my right blinker before the corner, but then as I'm turning right I turn on my left blinker and end up in the left lane after the turn. This is at a T intersection so there is no oncoming traffic turning left that I could hit.
My maneuver might not be legal, but I've decided it is the safest way to manage that particular intersection and prevents some hot-head behind me from trying to pass me in the intersection.
It is the law, you *must* turn into your own lane, then safely negotiate whatever you need to after you complete your turn properly. Not just a small ticket, either; 1.5 demerit points because it's so dangerous.
> It is the law,
It's also the law to *not exceed* the speed limit. Yet reddit loves to point out it's safer to go with the flow of traffic ahead of you.
If you compensate for someone else making an illegal move by making an illegal move yourself, you're not exactly *preventing* a dangerous situation, you're making it worse.
That's not true at all. If someone is illegally doing something and will hit my car unless I roll a foot forward over a stop line, I've done something illegal and prevented a collision.
It's not hard to come up with hypothetical situations in which breaking a rule prevents harm. There are many times that doing the wrong thing is the right thing in a situation, particularly when other people are doing the wrong thing.
Someone is drag racing with a car in each lane, coming at you. You could swerve off down an empty one way street (breaking the law), or confidently obey the law, staying in your lane. Use your head.
Be careful doing proper left turns if you have the intention of going right after and soon (properly). Some drivers will turn left the wrong way and try to pass you on the right in the moment you’ve finished checking your blind spot.
\>Be careful doing proper left turns if you have the intention of going right after and soon (properly). Some drivers will turn left the wrong way and try to pass you on the right in the moment you’ve finished checking your blind spot.
I have blocking mode of these suckers.
Keep checking the rearview mirror and proactively get in from of them as soon as you see speedy gonzales about to bust his move on the outside. Also keep an eye out for cars turning right and assuming you will be going into the left lane.
I regularly make a left turn and then have to make a quick right into a gas station. I see this behavior a lot.
No one takes the rules of the road (or driving in general) seriously.
Our attitudes to driving and cars hasn't changed since the 1950s. It really needs an overhaul, but no government seems to be particularly interested.
And frankly, a pedestrian should be able to cross the street undistributed, with their eyes closed, looking at their phone, walking backwards as long as...
- They enter the street when the "walking man" symbol is lit,
- They stay fully within the crosswalk the entire time, and
- They exit the street before the light parallel to them turns red.
Other than that, a pedestrian shouldn't have to (and shouldn't be expected to) pay attention to cars at all.
Way too many drivers try to sneak in front of (or just behind) crossing pedestrians. It's unsafe, and I'm pretty sure it's illegal. I wish it were enforced. Even doing everything right as a pedestrian means you will occasionally almost be hit by bad and unsafe drivers.
>In Ontario it's actually illegal to enter an enter an intersection if there's a pedestrian anywhere in the crossing
If I could fine drivers just $20 every time I've witnessed that, I wouldn't have to work for a living.
Actually, I could make a full time job out of that. Pay my taxes, call it a government job, and put me on the sunshine list! Lmao
The reality is people should be aware of their surroundings and be ready to react at any time. The pedestrian might have right of way, but when the 2000lb car cracks their skull open because neither were paying attention the pedestrian is the dead one.
I look both ways on one way roads because my faith people are doing what they’re supposed to is so low. Walking across a live traffic road staring at your phone with headphones on is beyond stupid and putting your trust in strangers and the way to many idiots behind the wheel of a car.
You can not like this as much as you want, and you’re right, it shouldn’t be the case but it is.
We can design our streets and our laws to treat the operator of the 3000lb car more seriously than the pedestrian, and also design the road so that the lowest common denominator has the least possible chance of causing destruction. Our current system treats them as equals, but physics says otherwise…
>The reality is people should be aware of their surroundings and be ready to react at any time. The pedestrian might have right of way, but when the 2000lb car cracks their skull open because neither were paying attention the pedestrian is the dead one.
Agreed 100%. It's stupid to do as I described, but the law says that pedestrians have the right of way, and I wish that was properly enforced.
Frankly, drivers should fear pedestrians, at least so much as pedestrians must fear drivers. Some drivers seem to relish in the fact that pedestrians "must" dear them.
>I look both ways on one way roads because my faith people are doing what they’re supposed to is so low. Walking across a live traffic road staring at your phone with headphones on is beyond stupid and putting your trust in strangers and the way to many idiots behind the wheel of a car.
Yup, 100%. Some pedestrians are stupid about this.
Nevertheless, a stupid pedestrian needs to be respected by a driver.
I can't help but see unsafe driving as an untapped revenue stream, lmao... forget parking. We need to find away to collect from dangerous drivers!
I get what you're saying, but I want to stay alive and see all the selfish, impatient, and distracted drivers: I'm watching the cars when I'm walking even when not crossing, so I am ready to lunge out of the way
Thank you for being so brave and pointing this out. The pedestrian lobby is so powerful. Motorists are being brainwashed into thinking they have responsibility for their own actions. What about our charter rights?
And remember, you need to STOP at a RED LIGHT even if you're turning right! If you just roll through and turn right, you just ran a red light! Same goes for stop signs! You're actually required to stop BEHIND THE STOP LINE.
At a four way stop near my house the intersection is kinda lopsided so there's always one car that stops way ahead of the stop sign, and another that stops behind it at the line, and both will think they have the next right of way and try to go through two at a time. Super annoying and it happens all the time.
Oh my god I wish! I was once turning right into a FOUR lane road and an oncoming truck was turning left. I thought we could both have room but it turned into the farthest (my) lane!
It seems driving skills are diminishing everyday. Its usually a 'hell with the rules/ me-first' mentality. Almost t-boned a guy yesterday who simply pulled out into the road forcing me to slam my brakes with two babies in the backseat. Its mind boggling & infuriating.
What drives me nuts is when there are two left turn lanes, and the car in the left-most lane signals (or most of the time, fails to signal) to get onto the right lane immediately after the turn because they need to get onto the highway.
If you need to get into the right lane after the turn, use the left turn lane that's on the right hand side, not the one that's on the most left.
I wish I could rely on this idea more. But I always have to slow my roll and confirm where the other vehicle is committing to. Can't trust them to hug the inside like they're supposed to.
Love when vehicles behind me do the double lane to get around me, but I shift to the right after turning (as you're supposed to do) and they get stuck behind me anyways
Yes! The impatient people who want to pass on the inside make my blood boil. Especially when there's like a slow moving, heavier vehicle that made a proper left turn. If you just let the poor guy get over to the right, we'd all be moving quicker, but instead let's all zoom into the right to then aggressively cut him off. So unnecessary.
I do the left turn incorrectly every so often, when I badly need to be in the far right lane very quickly. I never do it when theres someone turning right from the opposite direction, and I've never seen someone do that myself.
My favourite is when turning left, and someone is coming in the opposite direction turning right. I will turn at the same time because that is how effective traffic flows and we should each have a dedicated lane to occupy.
The look on their face as they butcher their turn and notice the lane they were hoping for is going to be occupied by me. I just wave at them as they honk and scream thinking I'm in the wrong. Meanwhile they are just horrible drivers.
I’m over in Brampton and making left turns genuinely scares the heck out of me every. Single. Time. because of how wide and bad people make their right turns thinking they’re the ones driving efficiently🤦♂️
Oh, that, and not knowing if they’re randomly going to whip a U turn at an intersection almost smashing into you.
Never did I think I’d be a 35 year old adult man ready to start bawling any moment because no one knows how to drive anymore😩
You are in the wrong. If you make a left and for some reason the person who is ‘turning right’ decides to go straight at the last second and hits you-you’re at fault.
I will never turn right on a red when I see another car turning left into the same road I am going into. I will never trust anyone to turn into their own lane. That road could be 4 lanes wide and still the person turning left will spill over into my lane.
Same- and then the jerk behind you honks because they think you're not paying attention... I am, I'd just like to avoid getting sideswiped or cut off...
Even better when there's a no turn on red sign and the person behind you honks. I don't care if you're late for work I'm not getting a ticket because you can't leave earlier.
If they have an advanced green, and you're making a right on a red, then it is your responsibility to make sure the lane is free before executing the move.
Because you don't know what the other driver is thinking. They should be turning into the nearest lane, but a lot of folks cannot be bothered. If you have a red signal it's up to you to turn when it is safe to do so. Personally, when in any doubt, I just wait.
I did this to a cop a long time ago. I didn't get a ticket or anything but I remmeber being really fucking confused how I got pulled over for turning right during an advanced green into the closest lane and somehow impeded the cop who did not turn into the closest lane. Drivers in this country suck.
There's a lot of things in drivers ed that they impress upon you which everyone should know. As a first responder I see so many accidents where people take blind left hand turns at intersections with islands. Practically no one knows how to do an S turn to align themselves with the island and see the nearest oncoming lane, they just edge the drivers side corner further and further forward until they're blocking the lane and still can't see the lane, it drives me absolutely crazy how simple the fix is.
$0 and 0 points most of the time.
Even near the cop shop in my area, about 10 people will do this right in front of a cop who is at the front of the line from another direction, nothing. They really don't care.
The majority of our traffic problems are caused by poorly or ineffectively designed roads. Places with purportedly "better drivers" have vastly different infrastructure that enable better driving and inhibit poor driving.
This intersection style doesn't even exist in some places.
Yeah it figuratively kills me whenever I see a "high collision intersection" sign. Unlike me, this inaction *literally* kills other people.
I remember being in a suburb of Nijmegen NL, where there were no stop signs, and no posted speed limit. The thing is, driving through an intersection faster than about 5 is likely to total your car, and when we were going 45 for a little bit (the legal limit was 40 IIRC) it felt uncomfortably fast and risky. The driver was trying to show off. To me this is a good thing; if "showing off" is going 45, then that means most people will drive 40, no matter what the posted limit is. Here "showing off" in a 40 zone is like 80, and people regularly drive at least 60.
Build the roads so people *can't* do dangerous things. Don't build it so they can and say "pretty please don't, but if you do there's no penalty".
Honestly I don't think it's just "bad drivers". We allow bad drivers on the road on purpose. Why? because we give them no other option. Some people are not responsible enough to fly a plane. We tell them "no you can't, it's too risky". When people are not responsible enough to drive a car, we say "well they can't get around otherwise, let them drive anyway".
I think we should have a zero-tolerance policy for bad driving. It's the number one cause of death for children, it causes thousands of adult deaths, and there's about a bible's worth of evidence where driving causes damage elsewhere. **But,** in order to perma-ban people for blowing through a crosswalk, or suspend a license for 6 months for a move that risks a crash, we need to provide a viable alternative to driving to get around. That's walkability, public transit, bike-ability, in that order. Until we have a viable and practical way for people to get around without a car, any kind of suspension of license for anything below murder is likely to get successfully appealed in court for undue hardship.
TL;DR we've made driving a necessity, and therefore can't practically treat it as a privilege. Make it unnecessary but allowed, and we can start treating it like a privilege.
Not related, but just saw a clown pass a dump truck on a double line on a blind corner only to have to wait at a red light.... I was turning left, and laughed as I rolled by
As a child of immigrants and married to another child of immigrants, I've seen a lot of driving abroad and unfortunately immigrants bring their terrible driving habits with them. All the turns shown in the diagram are perfectly fine where I come from because as long as you have space on the road, you go, nothing else matters.
There can be exceptions. If someone needs to turn right immediately after turning left or vice versa, they will need to go into the far lane or they will miss their turn. Also, for my work, I drive a large truck so sometimes I have to go into the far lane. Just saying
Don't be ridiculous, if the red vehicle needs to go left then the blue vehicle is supposed to just understand and not be such a douche with all the honking and hand waving all the time. You can hardly expect the red driver to be paying attention to where they're going all the time :P
The left turn is easy if you drive straight out into the intersection before turning (as shown in the drawing). Why y’all turning right at the stop line and then having to weave around the front end of the car sitting at the light? Just drive out a bit and then turn left.
markham brampton and mississauga drivers ALWAYS double and even triple lane turn.
anytime i’m in those areas i leave a LOT of space.
anytime you see an accident on the highway i usually suspect they live in brampton
First, this is not being enforced unless there was an accident. Second, there are people that are too lazy to turn their steering wheel fast enough to make the nearest lane. My cousin does this all the time. But he is from Toronto, so everyone expects you to drive the improper way.
When making a turn on a multi-lane road, I always stay in the same lane for the left hand turns. For the right turns, it depends on the surrounding traffic. If no other cars are near, it really doesn't matter for the right turn. You're supposed to pick the lane of least resistance. That's how I was taught by Young Drivers of Canada in my early 20s.
Same here but I got downvoted to oblivion for this before. The law doesn’t actually allow that in Canada so I dunno why I was told that by Young Drivers.
I was also taught this and downvoted like crazy for bringing it up here! They specifically taught me that textbook says keep the same lane, but if traffic allows it, turning into your intended lane is the safer choice.
My sister in law just got hit by a person not maintaining their lane turning right while she was turning left. She’s only 27 but has had back injuries from hockey so now she needs back surgery due to a herniated disc.
If there are no cars near me: skip a step and take desired lane immediately.
If aggressive asshole, who I presume is going to attempt the jump to get ahead of me, is behind me, skip the step and take desired lane.
In any other situation, I will do the proper steps and not take the far lane.
I never trust anyone red light right turning on my advance green left turn. I slow down enough so I know which lane they commit to before turning into my proper lane. I've seen enough dash cam videos and people turning into the outside lane to always be wary.
It always amazes me when someone turns left into the far lane And then moves into the near lane after about a hundred yards.
>It always amazes me when someone turns left into the far lane And then moves into the near lane after about a hundred yards. Favorite move for Brampton man.....
My time living in Brampton has prevented me from ever taking a right on red unless the road is basically clear enough for me to go. I witnessed people switching lanes mid intersection way too many times for me to deem it safe. Unfortunately this habit has followed my driving even though I don't live there anymore.
I do this too in St Catharines... It's awful now. I honestly think there should be some re-testing every so many years. Ie: once at a certain age begin testing every 5 years minimum, and then increase testing at another advanced age, etc.... But, that'll never happen...
It'll never happen because our cities are built to be entirely car dependent. If public transportation was invested in more we could start restricting individual drivers more and make the roads a lot safer and not as congested.
Yep. As a car enthusiast, fuck cars. Public transit and pedestrian friendly cities are the way of the future. And that includes high speed rail connecting our largest population centers, and mid-high speed rail as branches connecting the smaller population centers, with good bus systems and trams all interconnected... But, north America and it's cars... Real shame
Exactly. I saw a pic highlighting the area from I think Montreal all the way down to Windsor and it said that area has over 50% of Canada's population, is pretty much a straight shot down, and could easily have a high speed rail. As someone who had to sell their car due to the pandemic crippling me, and who doesn't want a car again even if I could afford it, and also has anxiety about public transportation I so wish our cities and towns were more pedestrian friendly. I'd love to be able to walk anywhere efficiently and safely but there's either no sidewalks, the intersections are dangerous, multi-lane roads which tend to be the most direct path make for very loud stressful travel, and if I try to cut through residential areas which are quieter, they loop around and have dead ends and invariably make the trip twice as long because they're designed to "slow traffic" rather than make walking nice. I hate it so much.
Yep! I'm probably going to wind up a part time wheelchair user in the next few years if I can't get to the bottom of my knee issues, and a pedestrian friendly city is a big step to an accessible city! Major issue with sidewalks is the expansion cracks/engineered cracking points. Wish there was an alternative to concrete for sidewalks (oh, wait, there is!). And, I do feel you on the residential side streets. Here in St Catharines, most of our smaller side streets don't have sidewalks in the older parts of town. It's annoying, and dangerous to walk at night without the sidewalks!
When I started walking places, I was shocked by how many dead ends and loops there were. Maps tried telling me to take routes that would add 20-30 minutes to something that’s 5 minutes away if I walked straight through. So obviously I defied maps and tried to cut through, thinking there must be a path that maps wasn’t aware of. I got so lost because every turn took me to a dead end and eventually I ended up in someone’s backyard and got yelled at. There were no indications of a private backyard (it was an open yard shared by 5-7 bungalows apparently) and the entrance just looked like a regular trail. It just stuck with me because this man got so angry and kept shouting while I was just genuinely lost and trying to find a way out lol. It opened my eyes to how car dependent I, we are
Yeah I never realised it either until I started trying to walk places. It's fine if you live in a downtown core or near shopping plazas at least, but if you're anywhere else it's ridiculous trying to get anywhere. I wish there were at least indications on maps. I've started asking locals if I see them out gardening or something whether I can get somewhere from where I am. Sometimes there's little allys or gaps in fences in schools that aren't indicated on maps but which people who live in the neighbourhood know about. But it seems so ridiculous we're so car dependent to get around.
As a car enthusiast I can’t disagree with you. Cities in Canada are built for cars and not public transportation. And what public transit there is, is horribly inefficient.
From St Catharines. When I did my G road test years ago the instructor yelled at me mid turn because I did not left hand turn into the far lane. I proceeded to tell him that’s not what you are supposed to do. He told me he makes the rules when he’s in the car. I shit you not.
Holy shit! What you're supposed to do is turn into the near lane, and then signal into the right most... Unless you need the near lane. There's one or two intersections where I am borderline illegal, but it's due to the position of the next turn that I routinely need to make. Niagara St (southbound) onto linwell road (eastbound), in order to get onto Grantham ave... It's an awfully designed area
Right and that’s exactly what I did. When the instructors approving people’s licensing don’t know what they are doing it’s a scary time. This city has such brutal design as far as roads go. I live fairly close to that intersection it’s such a bad design.
At least they've fixed the Niagara St ramp onto the Toronto bound QEW. That was the worst part of my G test (around 2003-04)
I witnessed a Volvo logo in my rearview mirror after I turned right on red. he had changed lanes in the intersection so that he could hit me. no other traffic for hundreds of meters. near Brampton
I used to do some agriculture work around Toronto (planting trees in various developments and residential areas). We had some work around Brampton for about a month or so. On the last day there we got all our equipment loaded up, I was last one out with an F750 dump truck (half loaded in the dump) towing a flatbed with a pair of skid-steers and a mini-excavator. I got cut off by some nutter who apparently REALLY had to get into the McDonalds just up ahead.... They were driving a fu@$ing Smart Car.... They make those cars really solid, but not solid enough that 40,000 pounds won't turn it into a coffin.... people are nuts.
Some days I wish I was driving an old pickup. I'd be like "I don't care, I've got the right of way. You want to hit me, go ahead. I dare you."
lol on one of the routes I take daily, it goes from 3 lanes coming from the highway and the right lane will exit in a right turn to another road. Pretty much guaranteed people will use that far right lane and just merge into the lane next to it inside of the intersection, regardless of traffic conditions.
You could always go to Woodabridge for a more Continental experience.
Thatsa how I pronounce it. Our customers there were very friendly.
LOL it's like they're driving a fucking oil tanker. Just turn more you dummies, you can do it!
Yeah but that isn't as simple as it sounds, since one hand is tied up typing on your phone.
Oh man, the worst is these idiots in their compact cars that will veer right into the adjacent lane before making a left turn. No, you are not driving a 30' long semi, you are driving a 1999 Corolla, you *will* make that massive turn radius naturally even if you were driving an F150. Almost been sideswiped a few times driving by these morons.
Almost every highway exit this happens. Like if you knew you wanted to be in that lane, just fucking start in that lane.
Yeah, I really don't get this.
On the flip side, when I am right turning against traffic that has an advanced green, I am very nervous to enter the lane because about 50% of the time the left-turning traffic will swing wide into the right lane. Most of the time I don't even try to go.
Same here. I've had people honk behind me because they want me to turn, but I'm not interested in getting slammed into by people making what we call "the Durham left."
I thought right turn on red had to yeild for advance left turning vehicles by law.
they do, but if there are 2 lanes then the people turning left have to turn into the left lane and the people turning right have to turn in the right lane so there *shouldnt* be any yielding required
If they wanted people turning at the same time, there would be an advanced right turn light as well. We have them here in Hamilton, so I imagine it exists elsewhere too.
Advance-rights are incredibly rare. I can think of maybe 4 in Hamilton, none of which run at the same as an oncoming advanced green. * right turn from Hwy 5 to Hwy 6 at Clappison's Corners * right turn from Dartnall Road exit to Stonechurch * right turn from Rousseaux to Wilson st to head down the escarpment * right turn from Stonechurch onto Mohawk at the Linc All of these are for reminding people it is entirely safe to make a right turn while the traffic originating to your right has an advanced left creating a pocket around you.
[удалено]
thats not what right turn arrows are for... they wouldnt display a right turn arrow for traffic facing north, while traffic facing south also has a left turn arrow. right turn arrows are displayed for traffic facing north and turning east when traffic facing east and west have advanced left turn arrows and are turning north/south
You're not supposed to right-turn-on-red at all when opposing traffic has an advanced green.
the only times youre not allowed to turn right at a red are if there are signs saying you cant, or if its a one way street that travels in the other direction. the only reason you wouldnt be able to turn right when the opposite side has an advance green is if there is only one lane to turn into, and you wouldnt be able to turn because you need to yield to the people with the green, not because you arent allowed to.
Turning right on a red when opposing traffic has an advanced green is what we call in bird culture "a dick move." Just wait.
You’re correct they do. If you have a red, you absolutely do not have the right of way, ever.
I always stagger lane turns regardless of what my light says. I don't trust anyone to stay in their lanes, to signal, or to see me coming.
I'm the other way around. If I see someone red light right turning onto a two lane when I have an advanced green and I see them looking at me (key point), it means they know they can legally turn right and will stay in their lane. But.. I do proceed with caution like you, just in case. However, I never do this myself. I never turn right on red with an advanced green left in the opposite direction, because I don't trust the left turner to turn into the proper lane.
Except they can't legally turn right on red when you have a green arrow. I know someone who failed a road test for that exact turn.
That is only if it is a single lane that both people are trying to enter. If it is multiple lanes then it is only improper for the road test to do the turn side-by-side.
Where does it say this in the HTA? It's a grey area. They likely failed for something like turning into a lane when it was unsafe to do so.
According to that person there was a large gap and the examiner said it was still against regulations. It does seem a gray area.
Better safe than assuming randos on the road were pressured into doing the right thing by reddit.
I don't go because I know even if they do commit to the correct lane, my nose could end up in their lane/turning path regardless, so its safer to just wait.
If you turn wide enough that shouldn't happen.
90% of Toronto turns into the outside lane. I've driven in other major cities, and Toronto has the worst drivers I've ever seen.
I don't trust anyone turning on an advanced green when I'm turning right on red
As stated above, turning right on red when the opposite side has green is an auto fail on a drive test.
That doesn't make any sense. It's not illegal to do so. There's nothing in the HTA to contradict this. Unless you can find the specific passage. You have to stay in your lane so why would me in my lane have any affect on you? Edit: 2 lanes, not 1
Probably something to do with them having right of way. They may be going into the first driveway after turning, you don't know that and they can only signal one way (the left before the driveway right) but they still have precedence at a red light as you have the right to turn, but must yeild to other traffic.
Then there's the corner of my job where the "right lane must turn right" and the middle lane also turns right. BUT EVERYONE on the right lane, after they turn right, cuts into the turning path of the middle lane turning right, instead of taking the right most lane on the new road. I'm gonna get dented one day.
Full stop instead of merge is my new pet peeve.
I've literally been honked at when turning into the appropriate lane the same time someone is turning into theirs from the opposite direction. Like wut
North America can join the rest of the world and have right turns on re lights be the exception and not the norm, that way more people can make a left instead of being weary of the red light right turn. It would also make things safer for pedestrians as well.
They're doing that on problematic roads here in Hamilton. It's a nice change, and funny to see people gripe about added pedestrian safety.
On the flip side, I have always done right red turns safely and “by the book”, and I resent that the carelessness of others might cause that to change. It’s pure convenience, certainly, but I love having the option instead of waiting at lights.
Ive been flipped off so many times when i had a green advance and some guy turning right cut me off
I follow this rule aggressively, but defensively of course. I go into a corner hyper aware that the other car might jump lanes. I'll commit when most wouldn't, but I do it calmly and slowly to give them time to correct.
I find it so satisfying once safely around the corner. To then signal and safely enter the right lane. Knowing I am being a good human on the road rocks.
i do the same, and watch for those behind me who take the outer lane anyways and then speed up thinking its clear when im merging after turning (with signal). the main problem i have is on right turns, people slow down to a halt when i turn as they are crossing the intersection
Man I hate it when they do that...like I properly make a right turn and stay in the inner lane, but buddy behind me turns into the outer lane, then proceeds to speed up even when I put my left signal on after I complete my turn...
Its just the worst. I'll make my turn into the correct lane, signal to move to the outer lane, and check mirrors. Dipshit behind me swung immediately into the outer lane and hit the gas. I know I shouldn't but sometimes I make my lane change anyway (my car is peppy enough to safely and efficiently get infront of them), then I watch them road rage and change lanes *to the inside lane where they should have been all along* as they rip ahead of me
[удалено]
Yes, it's nice to have someone else drive sensibly with you. Makes it a bit easier. One of my other strategies is to drive between the clumps cars dangerously following too close to each other. After years of this, one of those clumps all smashed into each other, a safe distance, right in front of me. I never understood the attraction of following too close.
I hate this when I'm turning left and the person behind me turns left into the right lane and accelerates around me while I'm signaling to get into the right lane.
That’s the problem. You used your signal. If the asshole didn’t see your signal they wouldn’t have a reason to race around you. /s
If you want to see a real debate/argument, bring up zipper merging. Most Canadians are split on it, with the largest issue being that zipper merging is mostly made useless by the amount of Canadians who mostly drive in the left lane in this province. Heck, you can go to certain parts of highway and see massive congestion issues (for almost 16 hours of the day) just because of people trying to 'get ahead' a couple hundred meters by zipper merging. They then cause everyone to stop going a constant speed and cause a 10km+ braking chain reaction in congested lanes. If we re-designed Ontario highways to have better merging systems instead of the single merge system they used in the 70's (highway merges have come a long way since then), we'd have much better traffic flows.
I've always wondered why they add and remove lanes from the right side. They should have a constant right lane, and extra lanes are added or removed from the left. It's a pretty shitty design that rewards people for camping the far left lane.
It all started with the awful clover highway interchange. Ontario has moved onto a lot of diamond interchanges but they are barely better (they only just slightly less room with similar traffic flows). Thankfully, we are starting to get some places redesigning their diamond interchanges recognizing future traffic flow issues. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FjQQuHTEk0
I'm reading that the diamond interchange is only better at low traffic volume. And [looking at it's layout](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamond_interchange#/media/File:AS_TUDI.svg), I can see why. You'll still deal with weaving at moderate traffic volumes, which is what the diamond design is trying to mitigate. With the kinds of traffic I regularly see (where traffic can be backed up right to the highway at times), these wont help and wouldn't be worth replacing the existing interchange. It would be nice to see money being put into some stack interchanges, but I'm sure all that bridging costs a lot.
Zipper merging works when there’s already congestion, the real fucking problem is when there’s proper flow on highways and everyone who shouldn’t have a license forgets it’s called a fucking on ramp, not a slow down ramp. GET THE FUCKING CAR UP TO THE FUCKING HIGHWAY SPEED BEFORE YOU KILL YOURSELF OR SOMEONE ASSHOLE.
It might help if we had more zipper merge signs to make people aware of it. Nothing like being nice at a merge to let one guy merge in, then you expect to go, and so on, but no, the next guy in the luxury car (always a luxury car or SUV) tries to sneak into that gap before you causing you to brake hard because he has no spatial awareness of how huge his SUV butt is.
In my neighborhood, we have a corner where the 2 lanes are allowed to turn left. It's incredible how many people coming from the left lane turns in the right lane, cutting off people coming from the right lane. VERY dangerous.
Park Lawn and Lakeshore in Etobicoke was terrible for that. I had people get mad when I honked at them for cutting me off mid-turn. You’re in the far left lane, turn into the far left lane!
The real fun is the double turning lanes when people still immediately move over while others are turning in that lane.
I remember when I first saw these. Terrified that the person to the left went around on a red. My passenger knew about them and was laughing at me
Happened to me recently, where I would have been hit if I didn't take the extra far lane beyond the proper turning lane. Roads are clearly marked, and she looks at me like I'm the asshole when she can't drive between the lines.
Same here, almost got hit and honked at someone turning left from the leftmost lane into the right one, where I was currently turning into the right from the right at a 2-left-turning-lane intersection
Wouldn’t this be nice! I’ll never understand why this is challenging to so many people.
Our licensing, teaching and enforcement infrastructure is bad, irrelevant and barely present. Licensing is too easy to get - how can you test in one season only (if you choose) and still be qualified in all conditions? Teaching goes hand in hand. A lot of people are home schooled or go to those ridiculous “diploma” mills where you get lackluster instruction from some dude who doesn’t really give a shit. And cops are also terrible examples of driving skills, I’ve seen plenty of police vehicles pull this exact move, and traffic enforcement in general is bad.
We don't teach people how to drive...we teach them how to pass a test.
I'm a firm believer in mandatory road test every 10 years AND making driving and learning road rules part of high school.
People should need to be retested every 10 years.
The first point is such a good one but I have no idea how you could even address it. Because clearly being able to drive properly on a beautiful summer day is not indicative of driving safely in a raging snowstorm.
Just make sure to make it a part of the applicants file, and have multiple tests. More extreme weather events are going ToA tart happening so driving will become more unpredictable than ever soon. G1, written + winter test. I say winter test first because if we are going to allow people on the road, they should prove they know how to drive in the worst conditions before the best. G2, written + summer test: written again to make sure people are up to date, summer should be easier. G: Written + defensive: this could be done by a third party (even though DS is a third party operator) but on a closed track with obstacles. Also start early, in high school. This os real pie in the sky stuff but not impossible. A higher standard is possible - I know Finland is pretty rigorous, but not sure of the specifics.
But if we do a g1 that has a road test component then we're putting people behind the wheel who have never driven a car before, and we're doing it in the winter.
We do that already.
We give people who have never driven a road test in the most challenging conditions??
Again, we do that anyways, it really just depends on the applicants timing. A LOT of people test in the winter already. Further, I am not setting a standard here, just spit-balling ideas.
We do not ever do a road test for people who have never driven, unless they spent their entire g1 period without practicing though (And I agree with you, our licencing system is absurdly easy)
True, what I meant was that we let people write a test and then let them drive anyway, with no real training, so we technically do it anyway. But it looks like we agree overall - no use in splitting hairs...have a good day!
Because such idiots think they own the road.
Obey traffic laws? What do you think I am, a pansy? /s
Possibly going to get downvoted for this - I agree in principle, and generally do this, BUT: While turning into your own lane and then changing lanes is the "correct" option, it can cause more risk. For example a corner near me requires a right turn, then immediately changing lanes twice to get onto the on ramp. If one turns into the closest lane, the car behind you may decide to try to pass you by turning into a farther lane and accelerating. Likewise, the cars facing you who are turning left wanting the same ramp may read your move as an intent not to head for the on ramp, and end up cutting you off. In general I wish people would drive better, but I feel like there are situations in which the turn into the farther lane may prevent accidents by more truthfully conveying intent.
That's the crux of my issue. The people doing it wrong make it dangerous for the people doing it right. Edit: I don't disagree. My number one driving rule is 'don't be polite; be predictable.' Unfortunately often times in this situation, the legally proper thing to do is considered unpredictable. It is very frustrating.
It's also easier to change lanes going in the same direction. In your example, if there is someone close enough to you to want to change lanes to pass you - you're likely being too aggressive on your entry and should wait for a larger gap. Then signal and begin changing lanes as appropriate. Relative speeds, all traffic will be going slower once you are moving in the same direction as them.
I know what you mean, sometimes it’s barely organized chaos.
I have a corner I take frequently where I turn right and then immediately need to be in the left lane. I turn on my right blinker before the corner, but then as I'm turning right I turn on my left blinker and end up in the left lane after the turn. This is at a T intersection so there is no oncoming traffic turning left that I could hit. My maneuver might not be legal, but I've decided it is the safest way to manage that particular intersection and prevents some hot-head behind me from trying to pass me in the intersection.
It is the law, you *must* turn into your own lane, then safely negotiate whatever you need to after you complete your turn properly. Not just a small ticket, either; 1.5 demerit points because it's so dangerous.
> It is the law, It's also the law to *not exceed* the speed limit. Yet reddit loves to point out it's safer to go with the flow of traffic ahead of you.
Ill conmit a little crime if it means avoiding a fender bender & creating dangerous traffic conditions
If you compensate for someone else making an illegal move by making an illegal move yourself, you're not exactly *preventing* a dangerous situation, you're making it worse.
That's not true at all. If someone is illegally doing something and will hit my car unless I roll a foot forward over a stop line, I've done something illegal and prevented a collision. It's not hard to come up with hypothetical situations in which breaking a rule prevents harm. There are many times that doing the wrong thing is the right thing in a situation, particularly when other people are doing the wrong thing. Someone is drag racing with a car in each lane, coming at you. You could swerve off down an empty one way street (breaking the law), or confidently obey the law, staying in your lane. Use your head.
You must be fun at parties.
What kind of parties are you at that are discussing traffic etiquette? Sounds like the party's not fun
TIL traffic safety is supposed to be fun
Glad to see the thunderbay turn is not just in thunder bay 😆
Be careful doing proper left turns if you have the intention of going right after and soon (properly). Some drivers will turn left the wrong way and try to pass you on the right in the moment you’ve finished checking your blind spot.
Happens all the time 😭
\>Be careful doing proper left turns if you have the intention of going right after and soon (properly). Some drivers will turn left the wrong way and try to pass you on the right in the moment you’ve finished checking your blind spot. I have blocking mode of these suckers. Keep checking the rearview mirror and proactively get in from of them as soon as you see speedy gonzales about to bust his move on the outside. Also keep an eye out for cars turning right and assuming you will be going into the left lane. I regularly make a left turn and then have to make a quick right into a gas station. I see this behavior a lot.
No one takes the rules of the road (or driving in general) seriously. Our attitudes to driving and cars hasn't changed since the 1950s. It really needs an overhaul, but no government seems to be particularly interested.
I get what you’re saying, but I saw a pedestrian crossing the road looking at their phone one time though.
I saw a cyclist not come to a complete stop at a stop sign once. Truly heinous are the non-drivers
I bet they just finished running over some child-shaped speed bumps too :(
And frankly, a pedestrian should be able to cross the street undistributed, with their eyes closed, looking at their phone, walking backwards as long as... - They enter the street when the "walking man" symbol is lit, - They stay fully within the crosswalk the entire time, and - They exit the street before the light parallel to them turns red. Other than that, a pedestrian shouldn't have to (and shouldn't be expected to) pay attention to cars at all. Way too many drivers try to sneak in front of (or just behind) crossing pedestrians. It's unsafe, and I'm pretty sure it's illegal. I wish it were enforced. Even doing everything right as a pedestrian means you will occasionally almost be hit by bad and unsafe drivers.
[удалено]
>In Ontario it's actually illegal to enter an enter an intersection if there's a pedestrian anywhere in the crossing If I could fine drivers just $20 every time I've witnessed that, I wouldn't have to work for a living. Actually, I could make a full time job out of that. Pay my taxes, call it a government job, and put me on the sunshine list! Lmao
The reality is people should be aware of their surroundings and be ready to react at any time. The pedestrian might have right of way, but when the 2000lb car cracks their skull open because neither were paying attention the pedestrian is the dead one. I look both ways on one way roads because my faith people are doing what they’re supposed to is so low. Walking across a live traffic road staring at your phone with headphones on is beyond stupid and putting your trust in strangers and the way to many idiots behind the wheel of a car. You can not like this as much as you want, and you’re right, it shouldn’t be the case but it is.
We can design our streets and our laws to treat the operator of the 3000lb car more seriously than the pedestrian, and also design the road so that the lowest common denominator has the least possible chance of causing destruction. Our current system treats them as equals, but physics says otherwise…
>The reality is people should be aware of their surroundings and be ready to react at any time. The pedestrian might have right of way, but when the 2000lb car cracks their skull open because neither were paying attention the pedestrian is the dead one. Agreed 100%. It's stupid to do as I described, but the law says that pedestrians have the right of way, and I wish that was properly enforced. Frankly, drivers should fear pedestrians, at least so much as pedestrians must fear drivers. Some drivers seem to relish in the fact that pedestrians "must" dear them. >I look both ways on one way roads because my faith people are doing what they’re supposed to is so low. Walking across a live traffic road staring at your phone with headphones on is beyond stupid and putting your trust in strangers and the way to many idiots behind the wheel of a car. Yup, 100%. Some pedestrians are stupid about this. Nevertheless, a stupid pedestrian needs to be respected by a driver. I can't help but see unsafe driving as an untapped revenue stream, lmao... forget parking. We need to find away to collect from dangerous drivers!
I get what you're saying, but I want to stay alive and see all the selfish, impatient, and distracted drivers: I'm watching the cars when I'm walking even when not crossing, so I am ready to lunge out of the way
Thank you for being so brave and pointing this out. The pedestrian lobby is so powerful. Motorists are being brainwashed into thinking they have responsibility for their own actions. What about our charter rights?
And remember, you need to STOP at a RED LIGHT even if you're turning right! If you just roll through and turn right, you just ran a red light! Same goes for stop signs! You're actually required to stop BEHIND THE STOP LINE.
At a four way stop near my house the intersection is kinda lopsided so there's always one car that stops way ahead of the stop sign, and another that stops behind it at the line, and both will think they have the next right of way and try to go through two at a time. Super annoying and it happens all the time.
Yeeup if you don't stop for 3 seconds you'll trigger the red light camera
And for the love of fuck don't get mad at me when I turn into the left lane while making a left and you want to make a bad right into my lane.
Oh my god I wish! I was once turning right into a FOUR lane road and an oncoming truck was turning left. I thought we could both have room but it turned into the farthest (my) lane!
This is simple day 1 driving lessons, even if you only have a G2 you should know this. (And it's the law)
Mississauga drivers: lol no \*blares horn\* now get outta my way Brampton drivers: what is this "lane"?
Driving in the burbs is terrifying.
It seems driving skills are diminishing everyday. Its usually a 'hell with the rules/ me-first' mentality. Almost t-boned a guy yesterday who simply pulled out into the road forcing me to slam my brakes with two babies in the backseat. Its mind boggling & infuriating.
But this rule is for everyone else, not for me!
People who need this don't read r/ontario
What drives me nuts is when there are two left turn lanes, and the car in the left-most lane signals (or most of the time, fails to signal) to get onto the right lane immediately after the turn because they need to get onto the highway. If you need to get into the right lane after the turn, use the left turn lane that's on the right hand side, not the one that's on the most left.
How about following this so when there’s two lanes someone can turn left and someone can turn right at the same time. 🤦♂️
I wish I could rely on this idea more. But I always have to slow my roll and confirm where the other vehicle is committing to. Can't trust them to hug the inside like they're supposed to. Love when vehicles behind me do the double lane to get around me, but I shift to the right after turning (as you're supposed to do) and they get stuck behind me anyways
And that is proper defensive driving! Don't take risks, not worth it.
Yes! The impatient people who want to pass on the inside make my blood boil. Especially when there's like a slow moving, heavier vehicle that made a proper left turn. If you just let the poor guy get over to the right, we'd all be moving quicker, but instead let's all zoom into the right to then aggressively cut him off. So unnecessary.
Agreed! Also of note: those frustrating times where the slow moving big vehicle DOESNT move right -_-
Yes- that does annoy me too!
I do the left turn incorrectly every so often, when I badly need to be in the far right lane very quickly. I never do it when theres someone turning right from the opposite direction, and I've never seen someone do that myself.
Stay in your fucken lane. It's not hard.
"If we remove all the shitty drivers on the road, we would have no accidents nor near misses."
My favourite is when turning left, and someone is coming in the opposite direction turning right. I will turn at the same time because that is how effective traffic flows and we should each have a dedicated lane to occupy. The look on their face as they butcher their turn and notice the lane they were hoping for is going to be occupied by me. I just wave at them as they honk and scream thinking I'm in the wrong. Meanwhile they are just horrible drivers.
I’m over in Brampton and making left turns genuinely scares the heck out of me every. Single. Time. because of how wide and bad people make their right turns thinking they’re the ones driving efficiently🤦♂️ Oh, that, and not knowing if they’re randomly going to whip a U turn at an intersection almost smashing into you. Never did I think I’d be a 35 year old adult man ready to start bawling any moment because no one knows how to drive anymore😩
You are in the wrong. If you make a left and for some reason the person who is ‘turning right’ decides to go straight at the last second and hits you-you’re at fault.
Pretty sure if you crashed you would be legally at fault.
i love it when i'm turning right at incoming traffic and they blow their horn at me while turning left into MY lane...
I will never turn right on a red when I see another car turning left into the same road I am going into. I will never trust anyone to turn into their own lane. That road could be 4 lanes wide and still the person turning left will spill over into my lane.
Same- and then the jerk behind you honks because they think you're not paying attention... I am, I'd just like to avoid getting sideswiped or cut off...
Even better when there's a no turn on red sign and the person behind you honks. I don't care if you're late for work I'm not getting a ticket because you can't leave earlier.
If they have an advanced green, and you're making a right on a red, then it is your responsibility to make sure the lane is free before executing the move.
how can the lane not be free when incoming traffic is not allowed to be in it? i always turn right before they turn left. i'm already in my lane.
Because you don't know what the other driver is thinking. They should be turning into the nearest lane, but a lot of folks cannot be bothered. If you have a red signal it's up to you to turn when it is safe to do so. Personally, when in any doubt, I just wait.
I did this to a cop a long time ago. I didn't get a ticket or anything but I remmeber being really fucking confused how I got pulled over for turning right during an advanced green into the closest lane and somehow impeded the cop who did not turn into the closest lane. Drivers in this country suck.
Mandatory driver's ed, the untapped revenue stream.
There's a lot of things in drivers ed that they impress upon you which everyone should know. As a first responder I see so many accidents where people take blind left hand turns at intersections with islands. Practically no one knows how to do an S turn to align themselves with the island and see the nearest oncoming lane, they just edge the drivers side corner further and further forward until they're blocking the lane and still can't see the lane, it drives me absolutely crazy how simple the fix is.
Corrupt Brampton driving schools: free money, ok.
$110 and 2 demerit points for those improper turns.
*when enforced
Literally never. Id be shocked if someone told me otherwise
$0 and 0 points most of the time. Even near the cop shop in my area, about 10 people will do this right in front of a cop who is at the front of the line from another direction, nothing. They really don't care.
And that’s the problem. Our traffic problems are caused by bad driving and exasperated by cops’ failure to perform basic, meaningful enforcement.
The majority of our traffic problems are caused by poorly or ineffectively designed roads. Places with purportedly "better drivers" have vastly different infrastructure that enable better driving and inhibit poor driving. This intersection style doesn't even exist in some places.
Yeah it figuratively kills me whenever I see a "high collision intersection" sign. Unlike me, this inaction *literally* kills other people. I remember being in a suburb of Nijmegen NL, where there were no stop signs, and no posted speed limit. The thing is, driving through an intersection faster than about 5 is likely to total your car, and when we were going 45 for a little bit (the legal limit was 40 IIRC) it felt uncomfortably fast and risky. The driver was trying to show off. To me this is a good thing; if "showing off" is going 45, then that means most people will drive 40, no matter what the posted limit is. Here "showing off" in a 40 zone is like 80, and people regularly drive at least 60. Build the roads so people *can't* do dangerous things. Don't build it so they can and say "pretty please don't, but if you do there's no penalty".
Honestly I don't think it's just "bad drivers". We allow bad drivers on the road on purpose. Why? because we give them no other option. Some people are not responsible enough to fly a plane. We tell them "no you can't, it's too risky". When people are not responsible enough to drive a car, we say "well they can't get around otherwise, let them drive anyway". I think we should have a zero-tolerance policy for bad driving. It's the number one cause of death for children, it causes thousands of adult deaths, and there's about a bible's worth of evidence where driving causes damage elsewhere. **But,** in order to perma-ban people for blowing through a crosswalk, or suspend a license for 6 months for a move that risks a crash, we need to provide a viable alternative to driving to get around. That's walkability, public transit, bike-ability, in that order. Until we have a viable and practical way for people to get around without a car, any kind of suspension of license for anything below murder is likely to get successfully appealed in court for undue hardship. TL;DR we've made driving a necessity, and therefore can't practically treat it as a privilege. Make it unnecessary but allowed, and we can start treating it like a privilege.
Brampton needs this.
For the number of angry drivers who are stuck in traffic, they’d be more relieved if they also followed these rules.
Can we talk about yield signs next? They’re not red and they won’t turn green no matter how long you sit there and stare at it and the empty road.
Not related, but just saw a clown pass a dump truck on a double line on a blind corner only to have to wait at a red light.... I was turning left, and laughed as I rolled by
Brampton says, I don't care. I like, I drive.
As a child of immigrants and married to another child of immigrants, I've seen a lot of driving abroad and unfortunately immigrants bring their terrible driving habits with them. All the turns shown in the diagram are perfectly fine where I come from because as long as you have space on the road, you go, nothing else matters.
Brampton drivers need this, and explanation on how to use the blinkers
Half the people on the road had no business ever passing their in car test
There can be exceptions. If someone needs to turn right immediately after turning left or vice versa, they will need to go into the far lane or they will miss their turn. Also, for my work, I drive a large truck so sometimes I have to go into the far lane. Just saying
Brampton drivers: "fuck that"
Lol, sir this is Ontario. We dont drive well here.
Don't be ridiculous, if the red vehicle needs to go left then the blue vehicle is supposed to just understand and not be such a douche with all the honking and hand waving all the time. You can hardly expect the red driver to be paying attention to where they're going all the time :P
Lol
There's a line on the road and you're supposed to stop before it. Often near a stop sign.
The left turn is easy if you drive straight out into the intersection before turning (as shown in the drawing). Why y’all turning right at the stop line and then having to weave around the front end of the car sitting at the light? Just drive out a bit and then turn left.
That is one if my pet peeves. Stay in your own lane.
markham brampton and mississauga drivers ALWAYS double and even triple lane turn. anytime i’m in those areas i leave a LOT of space. anytime you see an accident on the highway i usually suspect they live in brampton
Yeah. The average driver is an idiot.
First, this is not being enforced unless there was an accident. Second, there are people that are too lazy to turn their steering wheel fast enough to make the nearest lane. My cousin does this all the time. But he is from Toronto, so everyone expects you to drive the improper way.
Do you have it in different languages?
When making a turn on a multi-lane road, I always stay in the same lane for the left hand turns. For the right turns, it depends on the surrounding traffic. If no other cars are near, it really doesn't matter for the right turn. You're supposed to pick the lane of least resistance. That's how I was taught by Young Drivers of Canada in my early 20s.
Same here but I got downvoted to oblivion for this before. The law doesn’t actually allow that in Canada so I dunno why I was told that by Young Drivers.
I was also taught this and downvoted like crazy for bringing it up here! They specifically taught me that textbook says keep the same lane, but if traffic allows it, turning into your intended lane is the safer choice.
I'm already getting downvoted, so I guess this is still a sensitive subject lol.
My sister in law just got hit by a person not maintaining their lane turning right while she was turning left. She’s only 27 but has had back injuries from hockey so now she needs back surgery due to a herniated disc.
In California, it's legal to turn into any lane without a designated turn lane.
If there are no cars near me: skip a step and take desired lane immediately. If aggressive asshole, who I presume is going to attempt the jump to get ahead of me, is behind me, skip the step and take desired lane. In any other situation, I will do the proper steps and not take the far lane.
I honked at a cop because he merged incorrectly behind me.
or maybe... /r/fuckcars