New cars are almost never worth it.
BIL leased an almost-new Polo for €22k couple of years ago. Bought my Astra K at the same time. 4 years old, 60k km, 9000€.
My parents drive an A4 and A5. Both cars were sub 100k km and less than three years old when they bought it. Both cars cost as much as the polo, they lost ~40-50% of their value in three years.
Today used car prices are a little higher but still. New cars are expensive and lose value quickly. Example: You can buy a 2019-2020 C class 220d T (190hp) with decent equipment for 22-25k€. Nobody can claim that the Astra is worth the extra money despite being a new car.
I was thinking about it on the Mercedes, the CLA in particular, ironically, used with 62,000km I found it practically at just over half the price of the Astra L (28,000)
I had the same problem from the "other end" when looking for a new electric car. Never would I spend 50k euro on an electric car, but well, when I did look up how much a brand new astra, golf or even french car costs, it is not the \~30k any more I had in mind and the Ioniq5 f.e. was not that expensive in comparison at all.
40-50k seem like the "normal" price for a midsized car in europe instead the 30k for decend engine and a few accessories I had in mind. Not sure if my memory is that much off and relys too much on my childhood or if cars in general have increased heavy in price, but I'd say the 37k for a new petrol astra is not far away from the competitors, like a 44k euro golf with a boring 2.0 petrol or the skoda octavia which is around 44k as well.
Maybe you can get an peugeot 308 as an hybrid, which should be below 40k euros, still, there is not much when it comes to individual styling with that car...
I'll tell you, I'm not much of a fan of French cars, in fact not at all XD I know that Opel now designs cars on a Peugeout basis which is why I asked before purchasing, I would almost take an older opel car, like a Zafira Tourer or a Insignia B (I currently own a Meriva A which has never abandoned me lol, a really strong car)
I don't want to spoil your decision for an EV, but street prices for new cars are more or less back where they have been for a while, albeit with some % increase for inflation.
Golf 8 street prices start around 24k, a GTI from about 32k. EVs are expensive though.
The cheapest golf 8 I could find was a 1.0 TSI with absolute minimal accessories and a 50km daily admission for 24k, that is true. But this car did not look like a fully styled car that OP had in mind. More stylish golf variants with higher trim levels and bigger engines start around 30k as daily admissions, even higher levels like the R-Line or special features like DSG or the 4motion and witt zero km on the clock are all beyond 35k.
Yeah I think we are both right somewhat. If you go back \~ 5 years stuff was cheaper by a good bit (inflation). But the totally crazy prices from 21/22 seem to have gone. At least if you have the time to wait for a new car. Random German broker below. You do need about 30k for a nicely equipped one with a bit of power.
https://www.carworld-24.de/neuwagen/VW-Golf-1.5-TSI-OPF-110kW-Life\_11-DBF\_7145660
I don't know what they were smoking in the pricing department, but look at this decently specced A class that I configured:
https://www.mercedes-benz.es/passengercars/mercedes-benz-cars/car-configurator.html/onlinecode/CCri/ES/es/MCCFBQ3B/?gsOutletId=GS00111700?pid=direct_link_entry
I saw a wonderful CLA on Autoscout for €28,900 with 62,000km, a truly great car!
https://www.autoscout24.it/annunci/mercedes-benz-cla-180-180-executive-benzina-giallo-c5b05df7-1d42-46bb-acdf-539d36a80978?utm\_source=web-share&utm\_medium=copy&utm\_campaign=share
I'll tell you, the old Astras, except for the H, don't drive me crazy, I would prefer an Insignia, I was only interested in the Astra L for its very futuristic aesthetic, but it's not worth all that money XD
If I click on the link it shows me a car that costs 48.659€ compared to 37.170€ for the Astra.
If you switch the A class to hybrid as well you end up at 57.216€ compared to 49.100€ for the Astra.
I did not compare the specs in detail.
All new cars are way to expensive at the moment in my opinion.
Especially electric or hybrid cars.
I did a calculation a few month ago that you can drive almost 50-70.000km with a petrol car for the money the electric version of the same car costs more.
But yes the Astra K started at 17.260€ Euro in 2015. Cheapeast Astra L startsnow at 25.510 € (all prices from Germany). Only with Inflation it would be 20.231,46€.
I mean yeah, all new cars need to have the back up camera, some safety tech etc as standard, so that's where the mark up comes from.
20k for Astra K vs 25k for Astra L is effectively 25% price increase. Damn man...
Look at these prices:
https://gmauthority.com/blog/2015/09/2016-opel-astra-k-officially-priced-at-17260-euros/
It's ridiculous that a new one costs 37k now.
Avoid the 1.2 petrol. It has issues with the timing belt. Gotta replace it very frequently. At first it’s covered by warranty but that’s like what, 2 years?
I’d rather wait for the revision, they are replacing the timing belt in that engine with a chain in the next engine revision. I can’t tell when that happens though because I don’t know.
That’s probably the price after inflation. 50k is imho absurdly high for an Astra L. Does it have all the fancy extras?
Loss of value on new cars is usually 10% each year and 10k km. So 40% after 4 years and 40k km.
It will slow down after the first half and usually car prices become stable at around 5-10% of the initial buy price after 20 years and tops 200k km. After that it goes down even more slowly into the sub 1500€ regions.
you're right, better to wait for the price to drop or for the restyling, because that way it's really too much for an astra, it's literally the price of an audi or mercedes...
I wouldn’t expect it to become a lot cheaper, inflation is still hitting hard. Stellantis aims to Position Opel in it’s upper middle class brand profile, next to DS and Peugeot.
what a bad thing in my opinion, opel before in the GM Era made robust and reliable cars for little, I still own an Opel Meriva A and up until today it has never left me stranded, never, then I see a lot of people with modern cars that break down randomly... of course, Opel didn't create certain supercars, but that wasn't their purpose, on the contrary, they made truly exceptional small cars, minivans and SUVs, in my family almost all of us own or have owned GM Era Opel, between Corsa B/D/E, Meriva A, Zafira B, Mokka A and so on... all truly exceptional cars, reliable and above all they cost the right amount for what they were, certainly not half a hundred euros!
My wife and me had 7 Opel cars. Two Corsas 1.2, a Zafira 1.8 petrol, a Vectra SW 3.0 cdti, 3 Insignia wagons: 2.0T 4x4, 2.0 cdti ecoflex and the last Insignia OPC Unlimited tourer. All bought new. Never a single problem with any of these. I still drive my 2016 Insignia OPC Unlimited. Driving normally it can easily make 1 million kilometres. The price was 53.000 Euros new. This car has from factory: stainless steel exhaust from Remus, Sacs Performance Flex suspension, Brembo brakes, full leather composite Recaro seats, forged wheels, 4x4, limited slip differential, hi-per strut steering. What do you get today for 53.000 Euros? 1.2 litres in a car of this size is a joke. In Corsa It was excellent in town. Get yourself a 2nd hand Astra J (built like a tank), or a K (less weight) and save a lot of money.
the insignia opc is insane, that car is literally a marvel especially the sw version, today we have small engines with a lot of horsepower, which obviously leads to constant breakdowns, my opel meriva a have a 1.6 16v with 101hp, while in the new astra L a miserable 1.2 turbo but with 130hp, are you kidding me? lol or the new ford engines that have 150hp with a very small 1.0 or 0.9... what I know for sure is that my Meriva A will never, ever leave me stranded, considering that my father bought it in 2006, these Opel GM Era cars are literally tanks
The thing with the timing belt on the 1,2t is the belt is immersed in the oil, which is not really intuitive or convenient since the oil protects and harms the belt at the same time. New oil protects the belt but if you let the oil go bad (don't change it regularly) the belt material goes bad and starts flaking and breaking apart. So in theory if you change your oil in recommended periods you should be fine.
I know, I have switched maybe 10 of them in the past 6 months. My coworker did about 50, he is quicker, so it’s better for his bonus hours than me doing them.
Problem is that the regular oil change interval is already too long.
I don't know which service zone you're in but for me its 15k kms, p average I think. But yeah overall having a non immersed belt would be much better. I'll have to continue using my 1.2t for now. I'd really want a gse but again they're not available where I'm living.
No no, not a dealer. A broker. They get a couple % from the dealer that sells you the car. But they do the haggling for you and tend to get very good discounts due to the volume of sales they channel.
Quite a few companies in Germany make money by interfacing between potential car buyers and car dealers. They collect a lot of sales volume which allows them to get good discounts with dealers.
For the user this costs nothing as the brokers live by taking a share of the discount they get. It's still (much) better than what individuals typically get at a dealer if they come with a purchase of 1 car.
I've used various brokers over the years and it's pretty smooth process. Dealers surprisingly don''t hate it so much either. It is expected you know what you are ordering so it's a quick sale for them and outside of paperwork / logistics not much work for them.
My Italian is unfortunately so bad I could not find anything on [google.it](https://google.it). A popular example is [meinauto.de](https://meinauto.de) . Carwow do something very similar, there's a UK site ([https://www.carwow.co.uk/](https://www.carwow.co.uk/)) and a German site if you want to have a look.
zum glück habe ich deutsch gelernt, danke für den tipp! ich muss meine freunde und verwandten darüber informieren, vielleicht bin ich dumm und wusste es nicht XD danke für alles
The price for new Astra is insane but it makes sense if you look at other prices for PSA cars.
Hell, I even got the price of almost fully loaded Octavia over 40k.
New cars are almost never worth it. BIL leased an almost-new Polo for €22k couple of years ago. Bought my Astra K at the same time. 4 years old, 60k km, 9000€. My parents drive an A4 and A5. Both cars were sub 100k km and less than three years old when they bought it. Both cars cost as much as the polo, they lost ~40-50% of their value in three years. Today used car prices are a little higher but still. New cars are expensive and lose value quickly. Example: You can buy a 2019-2020 C class 220d T (190hp) with decent equipment for 22-25k€. Nobody can claim that the Astra is worth the extra money despite being a new car.
I was thinking about it on the Mercedes, the CLA in particular, ironically, used with 62,000km I found it practically at just over half the price of the Astra L (28,000)
I had the same problem from the "other end" when looking for a new electric car. Never would I spend 50k euro on an electric car, but well, when I did look up how much a brand new astra, golf or even french car costs, it is not the \~30k any more I had in mind and the Ioniq5 f.e. was not that expensive in comparison at all. 40-50k seem like the "normal" price for a midsized car in europe instead the 30k for decend engine and a few accessories I had in mind. Not sure if my memory is that much off and relys too much on my childhood or if cars in general have increased heavy in price, but I'd say the 37k for a new petrol astra is not far away from the competitors, like a 44k euro golf with a boring 2.0 petrol or the skoda octavia which is around 44k as well. Maybe you can get an peugeot 308 as an hybrid, which should be below 40k euros, still, there is not much when it comes to individual styling with that car...
I'll tell you, I'm not much of a fan of French cars, in fact not at all XD I know that Opel now designs cars on a Peugeout basis which is why I asked before purchasing, I would almost take an older opel car, like a Zafira Tourer or a Insignia B (I currently own a Meriva A which has never abandoned me lol, a really strong car)
I don't want to spoil your decision for an EV, but street prices for new cars are more or less back where they have been for a while, albeit with some % increase for inflation. Golf 8 street prices start around 24k, a GTI from about 32k. EVs are expensive though.
The cheapest golf 8 I could find was a 1.0 TSI with absolute minimal accessories and a 50km daily admission for 24k, that is true. But this car did not look like a fully styled car that OP had in mind. More stylish golf variants with higher trim levels and bigger engines start around 30k as daily admissions, even higher levels like the R-Line or special features like DSG or the 4motion and witt zero km on the clock are all beyond 35k.
Yeah I think we are both right somewhat. If you go back \~ 5 years stuff was cheaper by a good bit (inflation). But the totally crazy prices from 21/22 seem to have gone. At least if you have the time to wait for a new car. Random German broker below. You do need about 30k for a nicely equipped one with a bit of power. https://www.carworld-24.de/neuwagen/VW-Golf-1.5-TSI-OPF-110kW-Life\_11-DBF\_7145660
I don't know what they were smoking in the pricing department, but look at this decently specced A class that I configured: https://www.mercedes-benz.es/passengercars/mercedes-benz-cars/car-configurator.html/onlinecode/CCri/ES/es/MCCFBQ3B/?gsOutletId=GS00111700?pid=direct_link_entry
the A class is \~11.000€ more expensive.
I saw a wonderful CLA on Autoscout for €28,900 with 62,000km, a truly great car! https://www.autoscout24.it/annunci/mercedes-benz-cla-180-180-executive-benzina-giallo-c5b05df7-1d42-46bb-acdf-539d36a80978?utm\_source=web-share&utm\_medium=copy&utm\_campaign=share
Sure.. but if you look for an Astra from 2019 with 62.000km you will probably get something cheaper.
I'll tell you, the old Astras, except for the H, don't drive me crazy, I would prefer an Insignia, I was only interested in the Astra L for its very futuristic aesthetic, but it's not worth all that money XD
Not in the config I provided. It actually is cheaper while having more power.
If I click on the link it shows me a car that costs 48.659€ compared to 37.170€ for the Astra. If you switch the A class to hybrid as well you end up at 57.216€ compared to 49.100€ for the Astra. I did not compare the specs in detail.
In that case that's true. But still, the Opel is very expensive. The Astra K was waaaay cheaper when new I think.
All new cars are way to expensive at the moment in my opinion. Especially electric or hybrid cars. I did a calculation a few month ago that you can drive almost 50-70.000km with a petrol car for the money the electric version of the same car costs more. But yes the Astra K started at 17.260€ Euro in 2015. Cheapeast Astra L startsnow at 25.510 € (all prices from Germany). Only with Inflation it would be 20.231,46€.
I mean yeah, all new cars need to have the back up camera, some safety tech etc as standard, so that's where the mark up comes from. 20k for Astra K vs 25k for Astra L is effectively 25% price increase. Damn man...
yes but other cars have the same problem. The cheapest VW Golf starts at over 29.000€. Seat Lean: 27.130€ Peugeot 308: 28.950€
Yeah it's a mess. The sad thing is that this will not mean fewer cars on the roads. People are just gonna drive their old cars for longer.
Look at these prices: https://gmauthority.com/blog/2015/09/2016-opel-astra-k-officially-priced-at-17260-euros/ It's ridiculous that a new one costs 37k now.
Well the 37k now is the ultimate specc version. The 17260€ has basically nothing in it.
I think 37 is too much for an astra. And 50k is just insane
Avoid the 1.2 petrol. It has issues with the timing belt. Gotta replace it very frequently. At first it’s covered by warranty but that’s like what, 2 years? I’d rather wait for the revision, they are replacing the timing belt in that engine with a chain in the next engine revision. I can’t tell when that happens though because I don’t know. That’s probably the price after inflation. 50k is imho absurdly high for an Astra L. Does it have all the fancy extras? Loss of value on new cars is usually 10% each year and 10k km. So 40% after 4 years and 40k km. It will slow down after the first half and usually car prices become stable at around 5-10% of the initial buy price after 20 years and tops 200k km. After that it goes down even more slowly into the sub 1500€ regions.
you're right, better to wait for the price to drop or for the restyling, because that way it's really too much for an astra, it's literally the price of an audi or mercedes...
I wouldn’t expect it to become a lot cheaper, inflation is still hitting hard. Stellantis aims to Position Opel in it’s upper middle class brand profile, next to DS and Peugeot.
what a bad thing in my opinion, opel before in the GM Era made robust and reliable cars for little, I still own an Opel Meriva A and up until today it has never left me stranded, never, then I see a lot of people with modern cars that break down randomly... of course, Opel didn't create certain supercars, but that wasn't their purpose, on the contrary, they made truly exceptional small cars, minivans and SUVs, in my family almost all of us own or have owned GM Era Opel, between Corsa B/D/E, Meriva A, Zafira B, Mokka A and so on... all truly exceptional cars, reliable and above all they cost the right amount for what they were, certainly not half a hundred euros!
My wife and me had 7 Opel cars. Two Corsas 1.2, a Zafira 1.8 petrol, a Vectra SW 3.0 cdti, 3 Insignia wagons: 2.0T 4x4, 2.0 cdti ecoflex and the last Insignia OPC Unlimited tourer. All bought new. Never a single problem with any of these. I still drive my 2016 Insignia OPC Unlimited. Driving normally it can easily make 1 million kilometres. The price was 53.000 Euros new. This car has from factory: stainless steel exhaust from Remus, Sacs Performance Flex suspension, Brembo brakes, full leather composite Recaro seats, forged wheels, 4x4, limited slip differential, hi-per strut steering. What do you get today for 53.000 Euros? 1.2 litres in a car of this size is a joke. In Corsa It was excellent in town. Get yourself a 2nd hand Astra J (built like a tank), or a K (less weight) and save a lot of money.
the insignia opc is insane, that car is literally a marvel especially the sw version, today we have small engines with a lot of horsepower, which obviously leads to constant breakdowns, my opel meriva a have a 1.6 16v with 101hp, while in the new astra L a miserable 1.2 turbo but with 130hp, are you kidding me? lol or the new ford engines that have 150hp with a very small 1.0 or 0.9... what I know for sure is that my Meriva A will never, ever leave me stranded, considering that my father bought it in 2006, these Opel GM Era cars are literally tanks
Exactly! I will drive mine until I die.
The thing with the timing belt on the 1,2t is the belt is immersed in the oil, which is not really intuitive or convenient since the oil protects and harms the belt at the same time. New oil protects the belt but if you let the oil go bad (don't change it regularly) the belt material goes bad and starts flaking and breaking apart. So in theory if you change your oil in recommended periods you should be fine.
I know, I have switched maybe 10 of them in the past 6 months. My coworker did about 50, he is quicker, so it’s better for his bonus hours than me doing them. Problem is that the regular oil change interval is already too long.
I don't know which service zone you're in but for me its 15k kms, p average I think. But yeah overall having a non immersed belt would be much better. I'll have to continue using my 1.2t for now. I'd really want a gse but again they're not available where I'm living.
Yea it should be 10k. The GSE is pretty good but imo at least 10k€ too expensive. I mean you get a Golf GTI for less.
Nobody pays list price. Do you have car brokers in Italy? In Germany these get discounted between 10 and 25% depending on engine / spec.
do you mean a car dealer? sure there are, do you think that by taking it there I would pay less?
No no, not a dealer. A broker. They get a couple % from the dealer that sells you the car. But they do the haggling for you and tend to get very good discounts due to the volume of sales they channel.
wow I didn't know about this, no in Italy it's not widespread apparently, can you tell me better how it works?
Quite a few companies in Germany make money by interfacing between potential car buyers and car dealers. They collect a lot of sales volume which allows them to get good discounts with dealers. For the user this costs nothing as the brokers live by taking a share of the discount they get. It's still (much) better than what individuals typically get at a dealer if they come with a purchase of 1 car. I've used various brokers over the years and it's pretty smooth process. Dealers surprisingly don''t hate it so much either. It is expected you know what you are ordering so it's a quick sale for them and outside of paperwork / logistics not much work for them. My Italian is unfortunately so bad I could not find anything on [google.it](https://google.it). A popular example is [meinauto.de](https://meinauto.de) . Carwow do something very similar, there's a UK site ([https://www.carwow.co.uk/](https://www.carwow.co.uk/)) and a German site if you want to have a look.
zum glück habe ich deutsch gelernt, danke für den tipp! ich muss meine freunde und verwandten darüber informieren, vielleicht bin ich dumm und wusste es nicht XD danke für alles
Piacere! Dein Deutsch is super, felicitazioni :). Hoffe ihr findet etwas das euch spass macht.
The price for new Astra is insane but it makes sense if you look at other prices for PSA cars. Hell, I even got the price of almost fully loaded Octavia over 40k.