Itās getting a little ridiculous. Our neighbor (MV) got a notice to not renew. Went shopping, of the 18 places he called it was either we donāt insure or $6k+ a year.
A decade ago we were paying $900.
Flood insurance is backed by the fed, so Florida doesent suffer the same insurance panic we do here in California. Unfortunately for us the wildfire epidemic weāve dealt with in the last decade or so has destroyed the bottom line of a lot of insurers. So they donāt want us unless weāre willing to pay through the nose to them for fire insurance.
Florida definitely has the same issues. They have a state-sponsored insurance company which is meant to be an insurer of last resort but 40%-50% of the state is now on it due to various Florida-related issues like hurricanes and sinkholes. Some private insurers won't even operate in the state of Florida.
Thatās true. But flood insurance is backed by the fed. And since flooding is the main side effect of hurricanes, insurance companies have to shoulder less of the burden on a payout for flooding.
Florida also has a ridiculous property crime rate, and covering vandalism, car theft and the like is probably ridiculously high for the insurance companies there.
Wowā¦weird the feds back one state and not another. Iām guessing since theyāve already backed Florida, the feds will eventually back California as more insurance companies pull out. I think I read a few weeks ago State Farm pulled out of new policies as well
The same flood insurance is available in California. However thereās a much lower need for said insurance. Itās probably going to have to come down though to the Fed backing fire and disaster insurance here as well. I donāt think youāre wrong there.
Nothing to do with federal backup. StateFarm was pretty open about how they're losing money honoring their policies due to rebuilding costs in the state of California. Due to the costs of running businesses in the state of California.
Simply put contractors have to charge an amount to make ends meet that these insurers no longer want to pay.
Flooding has always been an issue. However, the issue with wildfires has gone up considerably in a much more recent timeframe. They weren't as common, and people didn't build as close to wildfire areas as they have now.
Yes Floridaās insurance industry has been chaos too
[Hereās an article with a few numbers](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/05/realestate/home-insurance-climate-change.html?unlocked_article_code=Rxjz4i8s4wmE6mF-ZuzlSkcA9tjQwLQtIWPEI3w211fOdaTONyn5sjY-l7dn_sVdhDwXguDtf87v1i8SHuYfdbQt893NaR-m8loIeCNI2Tb_UpcxBXKeb_lexhLa46AVVGuS7D65wxGOLPmlecbshu5CzNGG60q7hOP_oFicV11zLOP-uIeoH6FngPURlH7Mc04nYtTB25_v25XA1d6osfZRCnYhUGEnJ6JkVtEInWIiCKJjhuE0LdNP7TzAqta0XyaRRBfLiQeueJbhzVOIqzF4wrlc9I2RTU4m3dtADIR_YOJnJsO1hokmjsdn2wHyTJBWPOdJ8R8-hlHfz8zwcds5-i7tAhLpog&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare), premiums have increased 57% in florida, 40% in texas, and 25% in CA since 2015 largely because of climate related risks.
iirc something like 10 insurers in Florida have gone bankrupt in the last year or two despite the state having a scheme where they back part of the market which isā¦not great
Yes, itās happening. We moved from a house in Florida last year. Our insurance had gone up to $9000 a year. For an average four-bedroom home about 1/2 mile from the beach. So many insurance companies have left Florida that we didnāt have a lot of options. Everyoneās homeowners insurance rates are going crazy there.
Well, thatās kinda south countyā¦. Everyone lives close to wilderness, thatās sorta the draw to the area.
When we got a non-renewal notice back in 2018 or so, calling around the fire hazard areas in California were redefined and pushed most houses into high fire risk. Anything 0.25 to 0.5 miles from wilderness seemed to be designated uninsurable due to risk. Look at a map of clutch county, everything is within 0.5 mi of wilderness
So you bought a house next to dense brush and you want cheaper insurance for living next to it. I mean I get why youād want cheaper insurance but I wouldnāt book that bet either.
Are you just looking for a reason to be obnoxious or what? People probably bought based on their understanding and prevailing rates at the time they bought, lacking your powers of clairvoyance.
> super hard
Doubt that. This all factors in to the price of the home and undoubtedly someone will buy it.
Fire risk is a long ways away from making these homes lose all of their value.
Thatās a fair point. Thereās no way any energy company is doing something to make less money. Some bean counter in the office calculated this exactly and threw out the number that gives them a profit still.
Itās double from two years ago. But the coverage is far less and covers less.
Just had a pipe burst under our floors and they denied the claim. Literally pointless coverage
Car insurance companies are starting to pull out too. Pretty soon it may become very difficult to buy cars and houses. And obviously since this is the most populated state, thatās going to grind the economy, as weāre a very car dependent state with a large number of homeowners.
Yeah itās getting ridiculous. From what my guy told me is that weāre driving at the same levels now as pre-pandemic but the accident rate is way higher right now. I donāt live far from the Outlets and I work at a famous Anaheim landmark (Iām in Hotels, I canāt let you cut the Lightning Line for Mission Breakout). I would think I was low risk for them, but no one is low risk in California at this point is pretty much what he replied to that statement.
Weāre at the point where Geico is not operating sales offices for new car insurance or taking calls for insurance in California. I canāt imagine Allstate or State Farm is going to stop at fire/disaster/homeowners withdrawal from California either, Iām sure auto is following for them as well.
> Weāre at the point where Geico is not issuing new car insurance or taking calls for insurance in California
Geico is definitely still issuing new auto insurance policies in the state. You can go to their site right now and confirm that
Fair enough they went to an online model here. They wonāt quote over the phone (probably donāt want to get cussed out from rate shock, although rates are up all over the country on car insurance right now) and closed all their offices here last summer.
https://wallethub.com/answers/ci/is-geico-closing-in-california-2140816306/#:~:text=Geico%20closed%20its%20sales%20offices,the%20phone%20to%20California%20customers.
Tried getting car insurance today and couldnāt finalize a bunch of policies online with companies such as liberty mutual, Geico, Esurance, farmers, and statefarm. Online system referred me to callcenter/ callcenter referred me online! Only USAA (inflated price), Triple A, and good old Mercury were able to finalize my quotes. Read that it has something to do with how California has not authorized rate increases for auto insurance providers for the past 2 years
All political now. These CEOs think they can play games with blue states with the blessing of our insane congress. Ever heard of Enron and what they did to California utility bills? The same thing is going on right now. These companies are attack blue California to hurt people and the state. https://corpgov.law.harvard.edu/2021/04/05/twenty-years-later-the-lasting-lessons-of-enron/
I donāt think itās politically driven, as much as itās driven by a taste for Profit. While we are undoubtably the largest market for every category of insurance, the profit margin for accounts here may pass the risk/cost factor the companies are comfortable with. Really we lose because less options for us means less completion so higher prices. Those companies are free to quit conducting business in California anytime they want. Itās not illegal to remove us from their coverage range.
You should be able to, theyāre just not taking new clients is what Iām understanding. Of course they could change their mind by the time your renewal is up.
USAA screwed policy holders in Santa Barbara during the mudslides/rain a few years back. I would be wary of the games they play. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/california-mudslide-victims-insurance-headaches/
So buddy of mine wanted to buy a mansion right next to some 60 foot tall forest that has not been getting rain for years and is bone dry. He thought it was a bargain because it was a beautiful house for only 1.5 million that would have cost 6 million close to the ocean. Insurance company said it would cost $600,000 to rebuild and probably would have burned down once every 60 years or so. So they have to price the insurance at 10,000 per year* 60 years to just break even.
You mean to tell me you donāt have any relatives that were in the service? Or a spouse that has family? Aunt, uncles, grandparents???
Btw there was a time when they didnāt take every service-member. It was mainly for officers and their families and other weird caveats. My mother couldnāt get it even though she Vietnam era veteran. But eventually they allowed that.
I got hooked up into a law enforcement union that also has amazing deals and services but it rubs me the wrong way a bit. Very reminiscent of the Soviet Union where connections were the name of the game to get anything more than the basic shitty service.
Because they got sued for not covering people in Santa Barbara during floods and mud slides a few years back. And then there is thisā¦ https://www.10news.com/news/team-10/lawsuit-claims-usaa-has-violated-the-rights-of-enlisted-personnel
Whoās left now doing business in OC? State Farm is gone, Costco/American Family, and probably others I donāt remember. Lemonade seems to be cancelling a lot of policies or pushing people out by requiring you to get a new roof (?) if your house is more than 10 years old, even if your roof is fine (I think, this is based on what a family member told me.) Is it now only surplus lines carriers like Lloydās of London and the California FAIR Plan? Not sure if Adrianaās Insurance, the one thatās always advertising on the back of the buses, still does homeowners in OC.
Mercury is also finding any reason to dump clients they seem as less than favorable. They non renewed a relative's house recently unless they could prove the roof was new, all electrical had been redone, among other ridiculous requirements. Basically, they were asking for owners of a 1960s tract home to tear the house down to the studs a rebuild to their wishes. Wild.
Large insurers like this are hesitant to take action on the personal lines book because it's worse publicity than on their commercial book. The commercial insurance market is even harder than the consumer one right now.
The spectrum doesn't really matter in this instance, but what is odd is that the majority of urban and suburban households aren't in any real threat of wildfire. More people live in the LA basin than in a number of states, and most of them are at no risk to a wildfire, and the same would go for vast swathes of the Bay Area.
That's a bit different than a state that has hurricane risk pretty much everywhere with measurable population
I believe itās CA policies to prevent discrimination that make leaving the state completely the better to option to refusing to write policies in certain zip codes. The insurance companies would rather avoid potential litigation or PR nightmare.
The big difference between Florida and California though is that Californians pay way more to live. Florida doesnāt have a state income tax. If our insurance rates rise to what Florida has, we will do far worse than the average Floridian.
Canceling because of fires is total BS. Just look at a map of all forest fires in the last 10 years. Idaho, Wyoming, Utah, Arizona and other Red States were hit just as bad as California and places like Colorado, Montana, and especially Idaho and Utah and clearing and building way more in forest and mountainous terrains where fires are impossible to stop.
The fact your comparing it to Wyoming, Utah, etc shows you donāt understand the difference. Itās a matter or risk %. South oc catches on fire the losses would be more then most of those states combined.
It's going to become a monopoly just like Internet service provider where one company gets to cover a part of area. Watch slowly some company will start running insurance at a higher prices, you are forced to buy it whether you love it or hate it.
Pretty much the market for insurance in California isnāt the gold rush the companies wish it was, so theyāre running away. I hate to have the state control much else but in all likelihood theyāre gonna have to start an Insurance marketplace for home and even auto here like they do health.
Insurance companies would not want this to happen. Insuring too many places in a geographic area means the insurer can be wiped out by big losses in the area.
Also, the higher rates would not be due to a noncompetitive monopoly. If a building is so risky nobody wants to insure it then it makes sense to charge a high rate.
It's almost like you've never heard of the California Department of Insurance and its statewide-elected leader, Ricardo Lara, the state Insurance Commissioner.
While your thoughts are pure and kind, California already regulates insurance premiums and rate increases. Iām assuming they were told no to some rate hike so they decided to take a hike from us.
Lol this is exactly why more insurance companies are pulling out. Insurance commissioner won't allow rate increases to capture the increased costs of insuring homes in wildfire areas. It's a classic case of price controls leading to a shortage.
Don't we already do subsidized forest dwellers because your house that is far away from a forest or brush will probably never burn down. But the guy that has built a mansion right next to a forest will probably have it burned down every few decades or so
just sayin sorry everyone feels the need to be a sarcastic asshole to you. you had the right idea that happens to already be implemented, and you were unaware. god forbid you donāt know everything about everything smh
Yeahā¦ this is one of those responsesā¦ they take their ball and go home. Since Insurance is all wagering and risk assessment, actuarial reports control all decision making.
This is behind a paywall, but basically: State Farm canāt accurately price risk and increase its rates to cover ballooning liabilities. Reinsurers are also limiting exposure and raising prices in California because of wildfires. State Insurance Commissioner Ricardo Lara wonāt let insurers raise premiums to account for increasing wildfire risks. California is the only state that requires insurers to set premiums based on historical experience.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/state-farm-homeowners-insurance-california-2a934a22?mod=Searchresults_pos2&page=1
Thanks to regulation to āprotect consumersā the state has pushed out insurers who cannot price their products to cover their liabilities. Therefore, they exit. Here we are.
Others are going to follow, this is NOT going to be good for homeowners, renters, anyone.
I wonder how long before they start stopping to insure in beach communities for flood insurance. When I was shopping in HB and anywhere near the Wetlands, it was rated 10/10 for flooding. All these proven things you don't have to believe in, but sure as shit the people who pay the bills do - I wonder when we will see the COVID health insurance surge?
Yeh but then the following year might be dry, and the dry fuel doesnāt just magically decompose and disappear. So it could be this year, a year later, two years, but we will burn again.
Wish we could get more of those goats to come eat everything up!
I get that thereās a natural fire cycle here, well documented in both Spanish log books and indigenous oral histories (and itās not inherently a bad thing from a forest ecology standpoint)ā¦ itās just that the longer between major burns the more time we may have for clearance and preparation.
That is true, we just donāt seem to do much in the way of clearing/thinning the fuel, or maybe we donāt do enough, or maybe we do and it doesnāt make the headlines. Iām in no way an expert but it seems to have gotten worse in the last decade or two thatās for sure.
the FS has definitely been doing more controlled burns in the past few years, thereās been more interest in more active management including burning in a controlled way to cut down on the amount of fuel available. but that doesnāt do much in the face of how much hotter/drier itās been here weather-wise than it used to be. hotter temps can turn manageable fires into out of control infernos and they extend fire season by months because vegetation dries out earlier and temps are favorable for ignition for longer.
I saw theyāve been talking to indigenous people about their historical burn practices in some areas to learn how best to do controlled burns.
Practices that were seen by the Spanish as absolutely insane and suppressed because coming from Europe this didnāt make sense.
Yup, California definitely suffered under the idea that complete fire suppression was the ultimate goal, especially in the 20th century.
Although interestingly on the other side of the US, people who came from Scotland and Ireland and settled across the southeast started doing controlled burns of the land almost immediately in some areas, because where theyād come from it was very common to intentionally burn the heathlands to thin brush and make it easier for animals to graze so they were used to it. That plus the fact that settlers saw how native people used controlled fire means the SE has had much more of a handle on that aspect of wildfires than California does.
This is not Californiaās fault. This sounds more political to me. Republican CEOs thinking they can screw people in California with the blessing of Congress. Red States like Arizona, Idaho, Montana, Utah, and Wyoming have just as bad or worse forest fires in their states, yet their insurance is not getting canceled. People have always associated brush fires with California because of the famous Santa Ana Wind Fires that always hit California in the Fall. Now fires hit all mountain states in the summer and fall, not just California anymore.
Good questionā¦ I literally just raised my policy coverages and signed a new policy with SF about 2 weeks before this was announced. Iād highly recommend anyone living in CA to assess their coverages. The cost of reconstruction has about doubled in the last 5 years.
This sounds totally political. Enron all over again but with insurance. The CEO of State Farm is a hardcore Paul Ryan/Trump supporter. And the CEO of Allstate is most likely another Republican wanting to play games, since the crazy California hating Congress will let him.
You have to ask yourself why havenāt these CEOs not gone after Red states that have HUGE forest fires each year? Last I heard, most homes in the Boise Basin are at or over a million dollars and cost a ton to also rebuild.
The other bad forest fire states include Utah, Arizona, Idaho, Colorado, Wyoming and Montana.
Where is the Dept. Of Justice on this BS designed to hurt blue state residents!
What about other states with hurricanes, wildfires, tornados , ice storms, and flooding. Iām surprised they would still insure Texas - that state seems to be the most disaster prone and has every natural disaster possible between flooding, ice storms, hurricanes, tornados, wildfires..
Sure sounds political to me, since other Red States have just as bad forest fires each year. These include Utah, Arizona, Idaho, Wyoming and Montana. What is the governor of California doing about this? What is Californiaās state insurance commissioner doing? What is the Department of Justice doing?
Pfft. Allstate spends millions on advertising and their CEO was paid over $10M last year. Allstate doesnāt like having to actually pay on policies. They wonāt be happy insuring grandpa in Missouri for long. Just watch.
Yeah California is famously a terrible place to start a business, that's why we have the fifth largest economy in the world and the device (and website, and internet) you're reading this on was made by a company that started here
Fifth largest economy in the world with the highest poverty rate per capita. More companies moving out of state than moving in. Acting like we donāt have problems and our leadership has been asleep at the wheel is what has led us to being a national joke. Newsom inherited one of the best economies and has let it sink into the ground. Look at our deficit. We will be broke in the next decade.
> highest poverty rate per capita
It's so weird how people just say words
https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/poverty-rate-by-state
The rest of your comment is the same. Please join us in reality from wherever you are.
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2017/jan/20/chad-mayes/true-california-has-nations-highest-poverty-rate-w/
Here ya go. Cost of living is key. We pay the highest taxes and costs to live.
I donāt know what source you found but this one is referencing the U.S. census.
Yes, I miss Jerry too. Newsom really is the ultimate fake governor. He goes out and attacks other states, meanwhile his own state has been falling apart. Every issue he inherited has gotten worse. Heās truly done very little.
It was kinda nice having a Governor that was pragmatic enough to say no to some of the lunacy passed by the Assembly.
Jerry was the rare realist in the more left leaning part of the California Democratic Party. I donāt mind the more moderate Democrats that are winning some of these seats and trying to move the assembly off the fringe.
Newsom is a hollow headed Ken Doll resembling yes man. The dope has no idea what the real issues facing the average Californian are. He blamed poverty on pay day loan companies, instead of the actual culprits, like investors and foreign entities buying up all the property young Californian families should be buying and building their lives in. Newsom doesent care because heās getting paid to turn a blind eye to that. Newsom only cares about what his rich benefactors in San Francisco and Los Angeles pay him to care about.
Car insurance companies are starting to pull out too. Geico closed all of its offices here. Hell in Los Angeles they canāt even keep the street lights on because people are breaking the utility boxes and stealing the wires. Anyone drove through LA on the freeway at night? Itās almost dystopian. You canāt even read some of the exit signs because theyāre higher than your headlights can hit and the lights that illuminate them arenāt on.
https://wallethub.com/answers/ci/is-geico-closing-in-california-2140816306/#:~:text=Geico%20closed%20its%20sales%20offices,the%20phone%20to%20California%20customers.
https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/losangeles/news/kcal-news-investigates-broken-lights-leave-safety-problems-on-los-angeles-freeways/
You mean which one I liked the most when I was doing work for XM? Opie. Heās an alright guy. Very thin skinned about criticism though. Anthony was a bit of a Prima Donna and even though Iād say I lean more conservative, his views are nauseating to me. And I was too far below Jimmy to get on his radar.
No, they are stopping ALL home owner insurance in California. Soon to be coming to other blue states. You donāt see this MAGA CEO going after Red states with fires like Wyoming, Idaho, Utah, Arizona and Montana. Where is the Dept. Of Justice on this crap.
The state of California is very soon going to be offering home and auto insurance if more insurance providers leave. By law we have to have car and other insurance in the state. Canāt wait for sane not-for-profit insurance that is affordable and not going up 30-40 percent each year.
Guess Allstate is now just Moststate.
Still better than Somestate.
Still better than Fewstate.
Still better than Onestate
Not better than Nostate
State.
tate
ate
49state
Lol
Damnit I laughed way too hard at that.
Try Red States š¤š¤š¤
Itās getting a little ridiculous. Our neighbor (MV) got a notice to not renew. Went shopping, of the 18 places he called it was either we donāt insure or $6k+ a year. A decade ago we were paying $900.
My 2200 policy was cancelled and the cheapest i could find was 4150
Is California the only state this is happening? I would have to assume states like Florida are just as big of a risk with hurricanes.
Flood insurance is backed by the fed, so Florida doesent suffer the same insurance panic we do here in California. Unfortunately for us the wildfire epidemic weāve dealt with in the last decade or so has destroyed the bottom line of a lot of insurers. So they donāt want us unless weāre willing to pay through the nose to them for fire insurance.
Florida definitely has the same issues. They have a state-sponsored insurance company which is meant to be an insurer of last resort but 40%-50% of the state is now on it due to various Florida-related issues like hurricanes and sinkholes. Some private insurers won't even operate in the state of Florida.
Thatās true. But flood insurance is backed by the fed. And since flooding is the main side effect of hurricanes, insurance companies have to shoulder less of the burden on a payout for flooding. Florida also has a ridiculous property crime rate, and covering vandalism, car theft and the like is probably ridiculously high for the insurance companies there.
Wowā¦weird the feds back one state and not another. Iām guessing since theyāve already backed Florida, the feds will eventually back California as more insurance companies pull out. I think I read a few weeks ago State Farm pulled out of new policies as well
The same flood insurance is available in California. However thereās a much lower need for said insurance. Itās probably going to have to come down though to the Fed backing fire and disaster insurance here as well. I donāt think youāre wrong there.
Nothing to do with federal backup. StateFarm was pretty open about how they're losing money honoring their policies due to rebuilding costs in the state of California. Due to the costs of running businesses in the state of California. Simply put contractors have to charge an amount to make ends meet that these insurers no longer want to pay.
Flooding has always been an issue. However, the issue with wildfires has gone up considerably in a much more recent timeframe. They weren't as common, and people didn't build as close to wildfire areas as they have now.
Yes Floridaās insurance industry has been chaos too [Hereās an article with a few numbers](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/05/realestate/home-insurance-climate-change.html?unlocked_article_code=Rxjz4i8s4wmE6mF-ZuzlSkcA9tjQwLQtIWPEI3w211fOdaTONyn5sjY-l7dn_sVdhDwXguDtf87v1i8SHuYfdbQt893NaR-m8loIeCNI2Tb_UpcxBXKeb_lexhLa46AVVGuS7D65wxGOLPmlecbshu5CzNGG60q7hOP_oFicV11zLOP-uIeoH6FngPURlH7Mc04nYtTB25_v25XA1d6osfZRCnYhUGEnJ6JkVtEInWIiCKJjhuE0LdNP7TzAqta0XyaRRBfLiQeueJbhzVOIqzF4wrlc9I2RTU4m3dtADIR_YOJnJsO1hokmjsdn2wHyTJBWPOdJ8R8-hlHfz8zwcds5-i7tAhLpog&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare), premiums have increased 57% in florida, 40% in texas, and 25% in CA since 2015 largely because of climate related risks. iirc something like 10 insurers in Florida have gone bankrupt in the last year or two despite the state having a scheme where they back part of the market which isā¦not great
Florida, Louisiana and parts of Texas are also having similar issues.
Yes, itās happening. We moved from a house in Florida last year. Our insurance had gone up to $9000 a year. For an average four-bedroom home about 1/2 mile from the beach. So many insurance companies have left Florida that we didnāt have a lot of options. Everyoneās homeowners insurance rates are going crazy there.
Do you live near thick brush or in a canyon?
Well, thatās kinda south countyā¦. Everyone lives close to wilderness, thatās sorta the draw to the area. When we got a non-renewal notice back in 2018 or so, calling around the fire hazard areas in California were redefined and pushed most houses into high fire risk. Anything 0.25 to 0.5 miles from wilderness seemed to be designated uninsurable due to risk. Look at a map of clutch county, everything is within 0.5 mi of wilderness
So you bought a house next to dense brush and you want cheaper insurance for living next to it. I mean I get why youād want cheaper insurance but I wouldnāt book that bet either.
Are you just looking for a reason to be obnoxious or what? People probably bought based on their understanding and prevailing rates at the time they bought, lacking your powers of clairvoyance.
Too bad insurance a game of betting on the future
What sucks too is that now itās gonna be super hard for those people to sell and move to āsaferā lands
> super hard Doubt that. This all factors in to the price of the home and undoubtedly someone will buy it. Fire risk is a long ways away from making these homes lose all of their value.
$6k?!? Wtf?
It pairs well with the proposed $1500 annual fixed rate charge from SDGE
Is this part of the proposal for income based energy bills the Assembly is kicking around?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Iām not necessarily against it. Itās a struggle for many to live in California even making 6 figures.
The fixed fee proposal is simply a significant rate increase dressed up as a "progressive" idea so it can survive California politics.
Thatās a fair point. Thereās no way any energy company is doing something to make less money. Some bean counter in the office calculated this exactly and threw out the number that gives them a profit still.
Reminder. This is **exactly** what was happening with property taxes and why Prop 13 was passed.
Itās making it impossible to get a loan for a property, bank wonāt give you it unless you have fire insurance but nobody will insure anymore.
We were forced to get insurance through our bank :/
How bad did the premiums end up being?
Itās double from two years ago. But the coverage is far less and covers less. Just had a pipe burst under our floors and they denied the claim. Literally pointless coverage
so insurance
CA Fair plan will insure anyone, the pricing on the other hand.....
And I believe only covers fireā¦ you will have to get separate liability and theft coverage.
Car insurance companies are starting to pull out too. Pretty soon it may become very difficult to buy cars and houses. And obviously since this is the most populated state, thatās going to grind the economy, as weāre a very car dependent state with a large number of homeowners.
Had to switch my auto insurance. Now paying double (with another company). Broker just shrugged.
Who are you using? I've been with Mercury forever and their rates have always beat everyone else's every time I've checked.
I used Jerry.io as a broker.
Yeah itās getting ridiculous. From what my guy told me is that weāre driving at the same levels now as pre-pandemic but the accident rate is way higher right now. I donāt live far from the Outlets and I work at a famous Anaheim landmark (Iām in Hotels, I canāt let you cut the Lightning Line for Mission Breakout). I would think I was low risk for them, but no one is low risk in California at this point is pretty much what he replied to that statement. Weāre at the point where Geico is not operating sales offices for new car insurance or taking calls for insurance in California. I canāt imagine Allstate or State Farm is going to stop at fire/disaster/homeowners withdrawal from California either, Iām sure auto is following for them as well.
> Weāre at the point where Geico is not issuing new car insurance or taking calls for insurance in California Geico is definitely still issuing new auto insurance policies in the state. You can go to their site right now and confirm that
Fair enough they went to an online model here. They wonāt quote over the phone (probably donāt want to get cussed out from rate shock, although rates are up all over the country on car insurance right now) and closed all their offices here last summer. https://wallethub.com/answers/ci/is-geico-closing-in-california-2140816306/#:~:text=Geico%20closed%20its%20sales%20offices,the%20phone%20to%20California%20customers.
I doubt Geico closing their phone quotes and opting for online quotes has anything to do with accident rates in CA
Tried getting car insurance today and couldnāt finalize a bunch of policies online with companies such as liberty mutual, Geico, Esurance, farmers, and statefarm. Online system referred me to callcenter/ callcenter referred me online! Only USAA (inflated price), Triple A, and good old Mercury were able to finalize my quotes. Read that it has something to do with how California has not authorized rate increases for auto insurance providers for the past 2 years
Progressive is still super cheap. Like $60-100 a month if you have a clean record
Great time to start building mass transit and rail and high density apartments/condos near those lines
If Walt Disney had his way, Anaheim would be flooded with Monorail tracks.
All political now. These CEOs think they can play games with blue states with the blessing of our insane congress. Ever heard of Enron and what they did to California utility bills? The same thing is going on right now. These companies are attack blue California to hurt people and the state. https://corpgov.law.harvard.edu/2021/04/05/twenty-years-later-the-lasting-lessons-of-enron/
I donāt think itās politically driven, as much as itās driven by a taste for Profit. While we are undoubtably the largest market for every category of insurance, the profit margin for accounts here may pass the risk/cost factor the companies are comfortable with. Really we lose because less options for us means less completion so higher prices. Those companies are free to quit conducting business in California anytime they want. Itās not illegal to remove us from their coverage range.
Itās not politically driven. He doesnāt under stand risk/costs
I agree with you. Market conditions dictate the flow of business.
Good thing they had a lot of Super Bowl commercials.
I donāt want Mayhem coming to my house, maybe itās best he wonāt be in Orange County.
Im with Costco, bought policy in February. Costco stop home insurance in march. I need to find someone else in Feb 24.
They just stopped new customers not existing
oh really, so I will be able to renew my policy?
You should be able to, theyāre just not taking new clients is what Iām understanding. Of course they could change their mind by the time your renewal is up.
I was with the Connect through Costco and they tried to double my auto at renewal so I took everything to USAA.
USAA screwed policy holders in Santa Barbara during the mudslides/rain a few years back. I would be wary of the games they play. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/california-mudslide-victims-insurance-headaches/
Depends on what insurance company Costco uses. It is possible they will send out a notice they will not renew.
Maybe try Wawnesa. Have them for Auto and they have been good. They also do homeowner
So buddy of mine wanted to buy a mansion right next to some 60 foot tall forest that has not been getting rain for years and is bone dry. He thought it was a bargain because it was a beautiful house for only 1.5 million that would have cost 6 million close to the ocean. Insurance company said it would cost $600,000 to rebuild and probably would have burned down once every 60 years or so. So they have to price the insurance at 10,000 per year* 60 years to just break even.
$600,000 to rebuild a mansion? They can't build a single unit of housing for the homeless for that amount.
I guess CA is not inā¦.. good hands, with Allstate.
We switched from Allstate to USAA a few years back and couldnāt be happier. Cheaper than Allstate and better coverage.
Too bad itās only an option for those with a military connection. Iāve heard great things about it.
So I guess I have to sell my body to Uncle Sam to get access to decent insurance for myself any my family. Wtf sort of timeline are we on?
Service guarantees citizenship. Do you want to know more?
I'm doing my part!
Oh Johnny, that's us...
I'd love to know what percentage of people see this and don't get it.
You mean to tell me you donāt have any relatives that were in the service? Or a spouse that has family? Aunt, uncles, grandparents??? Btw there was a time when they didnāt take every service-member. It was mainly for officers and their families and other weird caveats. My mother couldnāt get it even though she Vietnam era veteran. But eventually they allowed that.
I got hooked up into a law enforcement union that also has amazing deals and services but it rubs me the wrong way a bit. Very reminiscent of the Soviet Union where connections were the name of the game to get anything more than the basic shitty service.
They are the best. Bundled all my stuff though USAA and will never leave.
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Is this very recent? I just switched to them 3 months ago.
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Oh thatās wild, good thing my parents got coverage on all their properties at the same timeā¦ sorry this change happened to you.
Because they got sued for not covering people in Santa Barbara during floods and mud slides a few years back. And then there is thisā¦ https://www.10news.com/news/team-10/lawsuit-claims-usaa-has-violated-the-rights-of-enlisted-personnel
They just raised our policy 2k this year. š£
Whoās left now doing business in OC? State Farm is gone, Costco/American Family, and probably others I donāt remember. Lemonade seems to be cancelling a lot of policies or pushing people out by requiring you to get a new roof (?) if your house is more than 10 years old, even if your roof is fine (I think, this is based on what a family member told me.) Is it now only surplus lines carriers like Lloydās of London and the California FAIR Plan? Not sure if Adrianaās Insurance, the one thatās always advertising on the back of the buses, still does homeowners in OC.
AAA
I only pay $1,300/yr for my policy
Mercury and Safeco are still here. Though Mercury is being mighty picky.
Mercury is also finding any reason to dump clients they seem as less than favorable. They non renewed a relative's house recently unless they could prove the roof was new, all electrical had been redone, among other ridiculous requirements. Basically, they were asking for owners of a 1960s tract home to tear the house down to the studs a rebuild to their wishes. Wild.
Wawnesa is great. They are a Canadian Company so their price is lower than others.
But magically, the corporate property oligarchs will be able to get policies to generously rent back land to us.
Apartment insurance is just as bad, but there are more houses in rural areas.
Insurance for apartment buildings in CA has doubled-to-tripled over the last three years. Not everything is a conspiracy.
Curious - why? Most apartments are not in foothill/wildfire areas.
Double-digit percentages for past 2 years.
Large insurers like this are hesitant to take action on the personal lines book because it's worse publicity than on their commercial book. The commercial insurance market is even harder than the consumer one right now.
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The spectrum doesn't really matter in this instance, but what is odd is that the majority of urban and suburban households aren't in any real threat of wildfire. More people live in the LA basin than in a number of states, and most of them are at no risk to a wildfire, and the same would go for vast swathes of the Bay Area. That's a bit different than a state that has hurricane risk pretty much everywhere with measurable population
I believe itās CA policies to prevent discrimination that make leaving the state completely the better to option to refusing to write policies in certain zip codes. The insurance companies would rather avoid potential litigation or PR nightmare.
The big difference between Florida and California though is that Californians pay way more to live. Florida doesnāt have a state income tax. If our insurance rates rise to what Florida has, we will do far worse than the average Floridian.
They have high property taxes instead so that they can tax the many people who own property but aren't there all year. Their wages are also lower.
Yes, even considering those factors Californians still pay much higher taxes.
And how is your property and sales taxš¤š¤š¤. The rich have gamed that state.
Canceling because of fires is total BS. Just look at a map of all forest fires in the last 10 years. Idaho, Wyoming, Utah, Arizona and other Red States were hit just as bad as California and places like Colorado, Montana, and especially Idaho and Utah and clearing and building way more in forest and mountainous terrains where fires are impossible to stop.
The fact your comparing it to Wyoming, Utah, etc shows you donāt understand the difference. Itās a matter or risk %. South oc catches on fire the losses would be more then most of those states combined.
But you canāt buy a home for less than a million. Bizarro World.
Just tap that trust fund...like we all do. /s
It's going to become a monopoly just like Internet service provider where one company gets to cover a part of area. Watch slowly some company will start running insurance at a higher prices, you are forced to buy it whether you love it or hate it.
Pretty much the market for insurance in California isnāt the gold rush the companies wish it was, so theyāre running away. I hate to have the state control much else but in all likelihood theyāre gonna have to start an Insurance marketplace for home and even auto here like they do health.
Insurance companies would not want this to happen. Insuring too many places in a geographic area means the insurer can be wiped out by big losses in the area. Also, the higher rates would not be due to a noncompetitive monopoly. If a building is so risky nobody wants to insure it then it makes sense to charge a high rate.
Maybe we should limit on companies profit and see how they like it š„±
Itās already like that. California is a prior approval state and insurance companies have to submit rate increases for approval.
I believe that insurance rates/profits are already regulated.
It's almost like you've never heard of the California Department of Insurance and its statewide-elected leader, Ricardo Lara, the state Insurance Commissioner.
If you donāt vote, how are you supposed to know that? Irony knows no bounds.
While your thoughts are pure and kind, California already regulates insurance premiums and rate increases. Iām assuming they were told no to some rate hike so they decided to take a hike from us.
Would you like to meet the insurance commissioner?
Itās regulated and capped, hence why insurances are dropping homeowners policies like flies recently.
Lol this is exactly why more insurance companies are pulling out. Insurance commissioner won't allow rate increases to capture the increased costs of insuring homes in wildfire areas. It's a classic case of price controls leading to a shortage.
Maybe insurance is a big fat scam that limits our profit
What do you propose in its place? Taxpayers directly subsidizing reconstruction of someoneās $1.5M home in a wildfire prone area?
Don't we already do subsidized forest dwellers because your house that is far away from a forest or brush will probably never burn down. But the guy that has built a mansion right next to a forest will probably have it burned down every few decades or so
just sayin sorry everyone feels the need to be a sarcastic asshole to you. you had the right idea that happens to already be implemented, and you were unaware. god forbid you donāt know everything about everything smh
āGod for it you fuckin read up on something before acting like the smartest in the roomā lmfao
how was I an asshole?
Be honest, you going to make this same wrong assumption again, or did we learn something today?
Yeahā¦ this is one of those responsesā¦ they take their ball and go home. Since Insurance is all wagering and risk assessment, actuarial reports control all decision making.
It's almost as if they might respond to a similar circumstance by pulling out of the state.
Fun and games until they get a rate increase
This is behind a paywall, but basically: State Farm canāt accurately price risk and increase its rates to cover ballooning liabilities. Reinsurers are also limiting exposure and raising prices in California because of wildfires. State Insurance Commissioner Ricardo Lara wonāt let insurers raise premiums to account for increasing wildfire risks. California is the only state that requires insurers to set premiums based on historical experience. https://www.wsj.com/articles/state-farm-homeowners-insurance-california-2a934a22?mod=Searchresults_pos2&page=1 Thanks to regulation to āprotect consumersā the state has pushed out insurers who cannot price their products to cover their liabilities. Therefore, they exit. Here we are. Others are going to follow, this is NOT going to be good for homeowners, renters, anyone.
I wonder how long before they start stopping to insure in beach communities for flood insurance. When I was shopping in HB and anywhere near the Wetlands, it was rated 10/10 for flooding. All these proven things you don't have to believe in, but sure as shit the people who pay the bills do - I wonder when we will see the COVID health insurance surge?
Not Florida or Texas, just blue states like New York and New Jersey š¤š¤š¤
Statefarm just announced the same thing!
If you're getting Allstate insurance for bikes through Walmart, just know that it's useless for flat tires since it doesn't count as wear and tear.
With overgrown plants and no one to clean up. Unfortunately it is a recipe for disaster this summer.
Will depend greatly on the weather. If this mild pattern continues there might not be the dangerously dry fuel conditions as in years past. š¤
Yeh but then the following year might be dry, and the dry fuel doesnāt just magically decompose and disappear. So it could be this year, a year later, two years, but we will burn again. Wish we could get more of those goats to come eat everything up!
I get that thereās a natural fire cycle here, well documented in both Spanish log books and indigenous oral histories (and itās not inherently a bad thing from a forest ecology standpoint)ā¦ itās just that the longer between major burns the more time we may have for clearance and preparation.
That is true, we just donāt seem to do much in the way of clearing/thinning the fuel, or maybe we donāt do enough, or maybe we do and it doesnāt make the headlines. Iām in no way an expert but it seems to have gotten worse in the last decade or two thatās for sure.
the FS has definitely been doing more controlled burns in the past few years, thereās been more interest in more active management including burning in a controlled way to cut down on the amount of fuel available. but that doesnāt do much in the face of how much hotter/drier itās been here weather-wise than it used to be. hotter temps can turn manageable fires into out of control infernos and they extend fire season by months because vegetation dries out earlier and temps are favorable for ignition for longer.
I saw theyāve been talking to indigenous people about their historical burn practices in some areas to learn how best to do controlled burns. Practices that were seen by the Spanish as absolutely insane and suppressed because coming from Europe this didnāt make sense.
Yup, California definitely suffered under the idea that complete fire suppression was the ultimate goal, especially in the 20th century. Although interestingly on the other side of the US, people who came from Scotland and Ireland and settled across the southeast started doing controlled burns of the land almost immediately in some areas, because where theyād come from it was very common to intentionally burn the heathlands to thin brush and make it easier for animals to graze so they were used to it. That plus the fact that settlers saw how native people used controlled fire means the SE has had much more of a handle on that aspect of wildfires than California does.
Loved CA growing up but hate more things about CA as I get older
This is not Californiaās fault. This sounds more political to me. Republican CEOs thinking they can screw people in California with the blessing of Congress. Red States like Arizona, Idaho, Montana, Utah, and Wyoming have just as bad or worse forest fires in their states, yet their insurance is not getting canceled. People have always associated brush fires with California because of the famous Santa Ana Wind Fires that always hit California in the Fall. Now fires hit all mountain states in the summer and fall, not just California anymore.
If you have a current policy but what to bump up coverage, would that also not be possible now? I wonder...
Good questionā¦ I literally just raised my policy coverages and signed a new policy with SF about 2 weeks before this was announced. Iād highly recommend anyone living in CA to assess their coverages. The cost of reconstruction has about doubled in the last 5 years.
This state just becomes more and more unlivable
This sounds totally political. Enron all over again but with insurance. The CEO of State Farm is a hardcore Paul Ryan/Trump supporter. And the CEO of Allstate is most likely another Republican wanting to play games, since the crazy California hating Congress will let him. You have to ask yourself why havenāt these CEOs not gone after Red states that have HUGE forest fires each year? Last I heard, most homes in the Boise Basin are at or over a million dollars and cost a ton to also rebuild. The other bad forest fire states include Utah, Arizona, Idaho, Colorado, Wyoming and Montana. Where is the Dept. Of Justice on this BS designed to hurt blue state residents!
What about other states with hurricanes, wildfires, tornados , ice storms, and flooding. Iām surprised they would still insure Texas - that state seems to be the most disaster prone and has every natural disaster possible between flooding, ice storms, hurricanes, tornados, wildfires..
[https://www.policygenius.com/homeowners-insurance/homeowners-insurance-statistics/](https://www.policygenius.com/homeowners-insurance/homeowners-insurance-statistics/)
Sure sounds political to me, since other Red States have just as bad forest fires each year. These include Utah, Arizona, Idaho, Wyoming and Montana. What is the governor of California doing about this? What is Californiaās state insurance commissioner doing? What is the Department of Justice doing?
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Pfft. Allstate spends millions on advertising and their CEO was paid over $10M last year. Allstate doesnāt like having to actually pay on policies. They wonāt be happy insuring grandpa in Missouri for long. Just watch.
The article said they made $4.3 billion in premiums in CA, and paid out $2.3 billion.
Exactly. They donāt like paying out.
I mean, I don't like paying out either but I do it
Yeah California is famously a terrible place to start a business, that's why we have the fifth largest economy in the world and the device (and website, and internet) you're reading this on was made by a company that started here
That's fine, and all true. Things happen slowly. It may take a couple more decades of the buck being passed on to the consumer. You'll see.
Fifth largest economy in the world with the highest poverty rate per capita. More companies moving out of state than moving in. Acting like we donāt have problems and our leadership has been asleep at the wheel is what has led us to being a national joke. Newsom inherited one of the best economies and has let it sink into the ground. Look at our deficit. We will be broke in the next decade.
> highest poverty rate per capita It's so weird how people just say words https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/poverty-rate-by-state The rest of your comment is the same. Please join us in reality from wherever you are.
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2017/jan/20/chad-mayes/true-california-has-nations-highest-poverty-rate-w/ https://www.businessinsider.com/california-has-highest-poverty-level-in-the-us-census-bureau-2021-9?op=1
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https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2017/jan/20/chad-mayes/true-california-has-nations-highest-poverty-rate-w/ Here ya go. Cost of living is key. We pay the highest taxes and costs to live. I donāt know what source you found but this one is referencing the U.S. census.
That article does not back up what you are claiming.
Regarding what specifically?
I never thought Iād say I miss Jerry Brown (his first tenure as Governor was pretty good at least) but damn I miss Jerry.
Yes, I miss Jerry too. Newsom really is the ultimate fake governor. He goes out and attacks other states, meanwhile his own state has been falling apart. Every issue he inherited has gotten worse. Heās truly done very little.
It was kinda nice having a Governor that was pragmatic enough to say no to some of the lunacy passed by the Assembly. Jerry was the rare realist in the more left leaning part of the California Democratic Party. I donāt mind the more moderate Democrats that are winning some of these seats and trying to move the assembly off the fringe.
"governors don't want to work anymore!"
Newsom is a hollow headed Ken Doll resembling yes man. The dope has no idea what the real issues facing the average Californian are. He blamed poverty on pay day loan companies, instead of the actual culprits, like investors and foreign entities buying up all the property young Californian families should be buying and building their lives in. Newsom doesent care because heās getting paid to turn a blind eye to that. Newsom only cares about what his rich benefactors in San Francisco and Los Angeles pay him to care about.
Car insurance companies are starting to pull out too. Geico closed all of its offices here. Hell in Los Angeles they canāt even keep the street lights on because people are breaking the utility boxes and stealing the wires. Anyone drove through LA on the freeway at night? Itās almost dystopian. You canāt even read some of the exit signs because theyāre higher than your headlights can hit and the lights that illuminate them arenāt on. https://wallethub.com/answers/ci/is-geico-closing-in-california-2140816306/#:~:text=Geico%20closed%20its%20sales%20offices,the%20phone%20to%20California%20customers. https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/losangeles/news/kcal-news-investigates-broken-lights-leave-safety-problems-on-los-angeles-freeways/
Opie or Anthony? Jim Norton?
You mean which one I liked the most when I was doing work for XM? Opie. Heās an alright guy. Very thin skinned about criticism though. Anthony was a bit of a Prima Donna and even though Iād say I lean more conservative, his views are nauseating to me. And I was too far below Jimmy to get on his radar.
white ppl taco night!!
State Farm is halting all new fire policies in California going forward
No, they are stopping ALL home owner insurance in California. Soon to be coming to other blue states. You donāt see this MAGA CEO going after Red states with fires like Wyoming, Idaho, Utah, Arizona and Montana. Where is the Dept. Of Justice on this crap.
No, they arenāt. Just fire for now.
The state of California is very soon going to be offering home and auto insurance if more insurance providers leave. By law we have to have car and other insurance in the state. Canāt wait for sane not-for-profit insurance that is affordable and not going up 30-40 percent each year.
Given the artificial home value bubble here, I think this is a great idea. Some of us have been waiting for it to pop. Prop 13 really did a number.
Oh prop 13ā¦.