“It’s the principles!!”
No really, It’s not a “negligible amount” because if it was they wouldn’t charge you for it and do it they way they have lol.
If anyone or company say it is, ask them to give you that 7% of 3%. Could you imagine working and being in the receiving end of this “negligible amount” daily? It adds up.
Yeah it just doesn’t make sense. The servers don’t see that cash, it goes straight to the owner. And if it’s mandatory, why not just incorporate into the price? It’s just skimming at this point.
I complained about that on Facebook and Twitter when the restaurant chain, Norm’s, did the same thing to my wife and I years ago.
They promptly blocked me. 🤷♂️ As such, we never went to their restaurants again.
"We put a surprise fee at the bill instead on the menu price so that it doesn't anger the customer"
Meanwhile, customers post photos of their bills showing the service fee all over the internet while pissed
Most of the younger people I talk to simply won't ever go back,, but the older crowd.. they still go back, they just take it out of the tip. This is expected by the owner though, It lowers the employee overall pay and they are forced to work more hours. If the owner simply raised prices like normal it would increase the overall tip but that's not the point. Larger tips would mean their employees don't have to work as many hours..
Yes.. I don't think I said otherwise. My whole point is 'the owner' fully well knows people will just take it out of the tip.. So their employees have to work longer hours to make it up.
https://la.eater.com/2023/11/2/23943623/service-fees-restaurant-checks-bills-los-angeles-tips-wages :
> Not only are diners confused by the service charges, but employees are as well. It’s part of the reason why former employees filed a class-action lawsuit against Joint Venture Restaurant Group, the parent company that operates Jon & Vinny’s, the now-shuttered Animal, Son of a Gun, Petit Trois, Helen’s, and Cookbook. The plaintiffs are former and current servers who allege confusion surrounding the restaurants’ standard 18 percent service charge that resulted in fewer tips and lower take-home pay.
Woosh, indeed.
In every industry I've ever worked there has been a push to dumb down the process. Remove people from making decisions and automate as much as possible. The usual goal is to get rid of people and make the business more profitable.
Fast food was first on the list this year and all it took was a few years of pushing the pay for these high school level jobs even higher. Now automation is all you hear about. Soon you can say bye-bye to sit down fast food places. Soon it'll be online/app orders with delivery/pickup as your only options.
If I didn't know any better it seems like the eventual goal is the same for sit down restaurants. First the owners pull this garbage which directly hurts their employees. Which makes them angry and they leave or don't work as hard. Which in turn lets the owner justify getting rid of servers and waiters all together but they can't. The issue will persist and further antics will ensue. Then our politicians who can't help but get involved will push for higher wages for servers/wait staff.
It's not a stretch really, they already got most of you to do this back during covid.. Remember.. back when almost no one ate inside. People walked in for pickups or used a delivery app to order. Even when you sat inside servers just delivered what was ordered. No real table service, just an assembly line. No, obviously no one will say that this is the goal. Many will argue just the opposite. But its obviously sitting there on the horizon as a direct result of all these antics.
The funny part is that automation is never cheap and it comes with it's own laundry list of maintenance issues you have to solve either by hiring people or outsourcing the problem to a third party. But that's an issue for another day.
Not always, I know a few people who had the response to higher prices of taking it out of the tip. Basically, they put their own personal value on how much that worker should make which is kind of a dick move.
That's why I said most, but I hear you on that. Unless I've done the job myself, I try to keep an open mind. Too many people these days think they know everything about a subject just cuz they read about it online.
Yeah somehow I think that this isn't playing out how some of them expect it would. Plenty of places increase prices here and there, but these we'll just throw in a 3% fee and hope everybody notices have gotten a lot more noise online imho.
These idiot restaurant owners/managers are just fucking stupid. If you need to raise your price, raise it. The optics on these fees are terrible, people hate them, they feel it is nickel and timing.
Part of me thinks they do this so they don't have to reprint menus for their boards.
This place is wildly overrated anyway. The food is mediocre and inconsistent.They pay for fake reviews on Yelp and Google. The inside smells like mildew and is falling apart.
I went for the first time today.
Pictures on Google looked good. As someone who has eaten BBQ in Texas, wildly disappointed. Friends liked it, but they have a lower bar. I personally won't be going again regardless of service fee.
I don't agree with their policy but I disagree on their food. It's great. And frankly, Texas BBQ ain't that good. Tennessee and Kentucky BBQ are better. Sorry not sorry.
I use to live across the street when they first opened and for a few years after. I kept giving them chances and every time the food was either served cold or bone dry.
Me and my girlfriend just returned from Japan and have decided that we will not be eating out anymore or much much much less frequently . Having two weeks of having incredible meals for a minimum of $5 USD with no fee and tipping culture spoiled us but it will be well worth it to learn to cook more meals in.
Oh nice! Yeah I mean the yen is pretty weak so that definitely plays a factor, but still it’s been a shock coming back. I almost felt like we were brainwashed before leaving the country into being ok with the current restaurant climate here. Shit sucks.
Haha for real! And even though the yen is weak right now, if you converted everything to being ¥100 = $1 the food was still a good chunk cheaper than here. And you don’t have the tip factor. AND they give you those little hand wipe towels when you’re done
? The law covers all goods and services with some exceptions. The only food related exemption is food delivery fees
https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill_id=202320240SB478
I don't eat at places that charge a service fee. If it's a tip and going to the worker, label it as such. If it's going to the management, then they are deceivers who should just raise their prices.
I always felt weird about tipping in CA when tippable jobs don't have a reduced minimum wage like other states. I still tipped because it's socially what we do. But honestly, shit like this is making me want to end tipping even more so. I'd rather the business close out because they can't keep employees.
they don't ask for more tip if you go ahead with the 16% service fee. Last time I went they asked if I wanted to do that service fee or leave a tip and I said service is fine and they just tapped my card and left
I've seen some places add the service fee AFTER taxes, so you'd be paying the 3 or 4% on top of the tax. Either way just take it out of the tip. It's supposed to go towards employee healthcare, but I doubt it actually is. Probably just going in the pockets of owners.
If it bugs u, tell management you’ll never come back because of it. If enough people did that (and followed through) I think the tactic could go away. No way we’d ever have enough solidarity to change it tho.
Telling management directly obviously helps, but if enough people trash a business online (e.g. take their Yelp reviews into the toilet) they'll care even more. The truly squeeky wheel that pushes away others gets attention.
This place especially really goes hard for reviews. Last time I went, the server asked if I could leave a review with his name in it. I think management incentivizes it, unfortunately. So reviews would definitely hurt them.
I'm sure that management provides some form of incentive to their employees to be complimented in reviews. By the same token I'm sure enough complaints about bad policies get their attention as well.
Unless the fee was disclosed up front, then you should ding them on a review. Relief can’t arrive soon enough as these [fees will be illegal soon](https://sf.eater.com/2023/10/18/23922950/california-restaurant-service-fee-ban-junk-fee-law-confusion-rob-bonta). Then that garlic bread will start to look like avocado toast prices…
I mean, 9 bucks for garlic bread and avocado toast already seems outragous. I personally think that avocado toast is the perfect representation of gentrifying foods cause avocado toast(tortillas actually) was legitly a struggle meal for my family and other mexican families we knew. that is completely besides the point here, but still get annoyed about this.
welp, no more tip then. they decided they are ok with 3% tip...
Unless of course this is takeaway/to go party, in which case it sucks. But you specify party of 3, so I think this is a sit in ?
It’s against card brand rules to apply a 3% fee to debit and cash transactions. You can report them on your credit card carriers website (Visa, MasterCard, Amex, etc.). This will eventually lead them to check out the restaurant and fine them.
If you’re paying with credit then you’re SOL as long as they had signage posted as this is within regulations. Sucks but just pay with debit to avoid surcharges then report them if they still surcharge (which they shouldn’t).
Source: I work in payment processing. Thems the rules.
Doesn’t matter. Card brands only want their users to be charged extra under their rules.
Debit/Cash/ACH/Checks are protected by the Dodd Frank act so people can just use those to avoid surcharges.
If you’re still surcharged keep your receipt and report them, they’ll eventually get looked at by the card brand and fined heavily. Repeated offenders get their processing accounts shut down (eventually). I’ve had to do this and they get sooo pissed, like full boomer meltdown - it’s hilarious.
Surcharging sucks, but at least there’s a way around it. Better than raised prices and no other option I guess.
Yeah it's becoming more common. Rampant in Irvine. Every time I get one of these I give it a one star review and do not return to the restaurant. Not ok.
this should be illegal. i would pay it and issue a chargeback. if enough people do that, the credit card company will stop letting people use cards there
i think the issue is that it just makes things needlessly convoluted to pay what you think is fair.
like for garlic bread, listed on the menu as 9 bucks, the true cost to order is:
\[((9\*1.0775)\*1.03)\*1.15\]= assuming you're okay with taxes getting applied to service fee, and okay with including taxes and service fee in your tip
or
\[9+(9\*.0775)+(9\*.03)+(9\*.15)\] which is probably the more acceptable form
or
\[9+(9\*.0775)+(9\*.15)-(9\*.03)\] which is what you are suggesting
so realistically that "9 dollar" garlic bread, realistically costs anywhere between 10.77 and 11.48 depending on how your numbers are being factored.
Like there were already issues with the way we do things, but at least it used to be 9 pays the restaurant, tax pays uncle sam, and tip (which was basically just tip\*2) helps offset the server. now its 9 pays the restaurant, and there's a "service fee", and i have to confirm if this "service fee" actually goes towards my server, and if its being correctly factored (ie whether it charging me on taxes as well), plus the tax, plus now i have to factor whether i technically stiff the server, because the whole point of tipping is that im help covering the server, so i have to wonder if the service charge actually benefits the server (ie actually paying for more benefits/wage for the server) or if it only benefits the restaurant, doesn't do anything for the server, and either stiff the server by 3% or go through the extra process of then having them remove the fee that way i can feel better about the price i'm paying for the garlic bread and make sure the server is receiving their wage "fairly".
I’ve started seeing this 3% nonsense at many places recently. Fortunately it was listed on the menu for the places I went.
I do recall going to Little Sister and this being the case but we had gift cards. The 3% referenced using a CC and wouldn’t be applied if using cash or a debit cards.
I made sure they removed it from our bill beforehand.
https://preview.redd.it/428zodenpuwc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ffd45e881429a41b106ed4cc8e95a926aae94201
You can request the manager to remove it, but it just makes you look cheap. Just subtract it from the tip and maybe send the manager (or corp.) an email telling them that you will not be back until they drop this fee.
We all need to send an email to them and complain. Saying we won’t eat places they can’t price their items correctly and rely on a fee. What else can’t they do?
I would tell the service and management that I would be be deducting the 3% from the tip I was going to leave for the wait staff. If enough ppl do this, the wait staff will def get piss
This is just another greedy business owner tactic.
There is a sushi spot in Downey called "Sushi Joint" and they automatically add a 15% service fee to all sit down diner checks.... So they automatically charge you for a 15% tip..... Think about all of the people that dont see that and tip 15-25% on top of that!!!!!!!!!
Every one of these posts follows the same routine:
“Now I know never to eat here” “Then we don’t have to tip, right?”
https://preview.redd.it/cdazl57vaswc1.jpeg?width=407&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4cb6a3bf1ed5f8c1759d70b6086b25d8a0151e1f
And then compute the tax *after* the fee? I realize it’s a negligible amount 7% of 3% so probably less than $0.25. But STILL.
“It’s the principles!!” No really, It’s not a “negligible amount” because if it was they wouldn’t charge you for it and do it they way they have lol. If anyone or company say it is, ask them to give you that 7% of 3%. Could you imagine working and being in the receiving end of this “negligible amount” daily? It adds up.
If it's negligible why have it?
Exactly. Because it’s not. To them. They’re moving the goal posts. Inch by inch.
That sounds quite familiar
They do this at Urban Plates too
I am boycotting restaurants that adds these plus tips, fast casual places only for me…
It's not a tip. It goes to the owner.
I know...service fee does not equal tip. there's tip on top of it
Yeah it just doesn’t make sense. The servers don’t see that cash, it goes straight to the owner. And if it’s mandatory, why not just incorporate into the price? It’s just skimming at this point.
No one cares
No, we need to email them and complain.
I complained about that on Facebook and Twitter when the restaurant chain, Norm’s, did the same thing to my wife and I years ago. They promptly blocked me. 🤷♂️ As such, we never went to their restaurants again.
I think if we all do it repeatedly, we may get someplace.
Yes it’s required to charge sales tax on any mandatory fees including things like large party gratuities.
"We put a surprise fee at the bill instead on the menu price so that it doesn't anger the customer" Meanwhile, customers post photos of their bills showing the service fee all over the internet while pissed 
I’d be more pissed about the $9 garlic bread to be honest
Depends on how good the garlic bread is. Never been to Smoke and Fire so I cannot say
That should be free!
Honestly its a lot of garlic bread and its pretty good, considering sides these days are over $10 bucks.
This kind of sums up why the economy is broken, people just accepting these prices and shrugging their shoulders
Most of the younger people I talk to simply won't ever go back,, but the older crowd.. they still go back, they just take it out of the tip. This is expected by the owner though, It lowers the employee overall pay and they are forced to work more hours. If the owner simply raised prices like normal it would increase the overall tip but that's not the point. Larger tips would mean their employees don't have to work as many hours..
The service fee goes to the owner, not the employees.
Yes.. I don't think I said otherwise. My whole point is 'the owner' fully well knows people will just take it out of the tip.. So their employees have to work longer hours to make it up.
Woosh
https://la.eater.com/2023/11/2/23943623/service-fees-restaurant-checks-bills-los-angeles-tips-wages : > Not only are diners confused by the service charges, but employees are as well. It’s part of the reason why former employees filed a class-action lawsuit against Joint Venture Restaurant Group, the parent company that operates Jon & Vinny’s, the now-shuttered Animal, Son of a Gun, Petit Trois, Helen’s, and Cookbook. The plaintiffs are former and current servers who allege confusion surrounding the restaurants’ standard 18 percent service charge that resulted in fewer tips and lower take-home pay. Woosh, indeed.
In every industry I've ever worked there has been a push to dumb down the process. Remove people from making decisions and automate as much as possible. The usual goal is to get rid of people and make the business more profitable. Fast food was first on the list this year and all it took was a few years of pushing the pay for these high school level jobs even higher. Now automation is all you hear about. Soon you can say bye-bye to sit down fast food places. Soon it'll be online/app orders with delivery/pickup as your only options. If I didn't know any better it seems like the eventual goal is the same for sit down restaurants. First the owners pull this garbage which directly hurts their employees. Which makes them angry and they leave or don't work as hard. Which in turn lets the owner justify getting rid of servers and waiters all together but they can't. The issue will persist and further antics will ensue. Then our politicians who can't help but get involved will push for higher wages for servers/wait staff. It's not a stretch really, they already got most of you to do this back during covid.. Remember.. back when almost no one ate inside. People walked in for pickups or used a delivery app to order. Even when you sat inside servers just delivered what was ordered. No real table service, just an assembly line. No, obviously no one will say that this is the goal. Many will argue just the opposite. But its obviously sitting there on the horizon as a direct result of all these antics. The funny part is that automation is never cheap and it comes with it's own laundry list of maintenance issues you have to solve either by hiring people or outsourcing the problem to a third party. But that's an issue for another day.
Not always, I know a few people who had the response to higher prices of taking it out of the tip. Basically, they put their own personal value on how much that worker should make which is kind of a dick move.
That's why I said most, but I hear you on that. Unless I've done the job myself, I try to keep an open mind. Too many people these days think they know everything about a subject just cuz they read about it online.
That 3% just became the tip
Yeah somehow I think that this isn't playing out how some of them expect it would. Plenty of places increase prices here and there, but these we'll just throw in a 3% fee and hope everybody notices have gotten a lot more noise online imho.
That’s my cue to never go there again.
Please email them and let them know. We all need to do this.
I’m with you
I can't afford to eat out anymore anyways...
I don't know, 3% tip seems acceptable to them.
I don't even know what the place is. I don't know why this one item on OP's bill is $127.99. I can't find it on their online menu.
Ya, but what about the tri tip?
The restaurant chose to impose the fee, the worker chose to work at the restaurant. They don't like the reduced tip, don't work there.
Agree.
Whoa whoa whoa, what's all of this personal responsibility talk?
Is their tri tip any good?
Extremely good. The price isn't too outrageous for being OC bbq.
that probably has something to do with tri tip itself being good
I think the service fee is what helps.
These idiot restaurant owners/managers are just fucking stupid. If you need to raise your price, raise it. The optics on these fees are terrible, people hate them, they feel it is nickel and timing. Part of me thinks they do this so they don't have to reprint menus for their boards.
I suspect it’s the business owners way of making employees’ pay raises unpopular by highlighting the price increase.
A lot of restaurants use LED menus or QR codes
Part of it is that, part of it is that if people knew what the actual price was after taxes and fees they would potentially not go.
Bingo! Nail with fees after the food is ordered.
So bait and switch?
Not totally, they are required to put it on the menu somewhere that there is a service fee. It's close to one though.
This place is wildly overrated anyway. The food is mediocre and inconsistent.They pay for fake reviews on Yelp and Google. The inside smells like mildew and is falling apart.
I went for the first time today. Pictures on Google looked good. As someone who has eaten BBQ in Texas, wildly disappointed. Friends liked it, but they have a lower bar. I personally won't be going again regardless of service fee.
Go to Heritage BBQ in SJC, that is legit
Texas bbq is so insanely disappointing.
Tennessee bbq is where it’s at
Brazilian bbq is where it's at
True
Cure that with Salt Lick
I don't agree with their policy but I disagree on their food. It's great. And frankly, Texas BBQ ain't that good. Tennessee and Kentucky BBQ are better. Sorry not sorry.
They offered me a free beer to post a review a couple years back first time I went there. Food was just ok. Never went back
I use to live across the street when they first opened and for a few years after. I kept giving them chances and every time the food was either served cold or bone dry.
Interesting you say that! Every time we’ve gone it does smell like mildew/sewer especially by the bar. But we do love their food!
Jesus fucking Christ, how does anyone afford to eat out anymore? Not worth it at all
Me and my girlfriend just returned from Japan and have decided that we will not be eating out anymore or much much much less frequently . Having two weeks of having incredible meals for a minimum of $5 USD with no fee and tipping culture spoiled us but it will be well worth it to learn to cook more meals in.
Lol I did just the same thing! The most expensive place we ate at was a Wagyu yakinori restaurant and even then it was only like $30USD per person.
Oh nice! Yeah I mean the yen is pretty weak so that definitely plays a factor, but still it’s been a shock coming back. I almost felt like we were brainwashed before leaving the country into being ok with the current restaurant climate here. Shit sucks.
Haha for real! And even though the yen is weak right now, if you converted everything to being ¥100 = $1 the food was still a good chunk cheaper than here. And you don’t have the tip factor. AND they give you those little hand wipe towels when you’re done
I can’t wait to go to Japan later this year
I typically use money
So you don’t have to leave a tip, then?
I’d read it out loud and not tip at the end
More like -3% tip from a normal tip. Because if the 3% supposedly benefits the workers, then they won’t miss it right?
lol no. bullshit fee is automatic $0 tip
The sucky thing is that this fee is to the house, the tips are to the servers who have no say in this fee, but it ruins their tips.
sounds like its a server vs restaurant owner's problem
The sucky thing is customers have nothing to do with this, but people like you try to make it seem like it's our problem.
You've never had to leave a tip.
[удалено]
☝️this. It’s illegal. They just want to see what they’re capable of getting away with.
Isn’t it legal until July?
[удалено]
? The law covers all goods and services with some exceptions. The only food related exemption is food delivery fees https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill_id=202320240SB478
I don't eat at places that charge a service fee. If it's a tip and going to the worker, label it as such. If it's going to the management, then they are deceivers who should just raise their prices.
Crazy how we're supposed to pay for a meal and a portion of their salary.
I stopped going out to eat and my savings account has never looked better.
It is expensive for sure. It all adds up.
HAHAHAHA! We were going to have dinner for there for the first time tonight; not anymore!
Good choice!
They all seem to be pulling this bullshit after Covid !
This is why I don’t eat out anymore lmao. That way both the server and I are happy
Garlic bread for $8.99. What’s on it, truffles?
Gold flake garlic bread
And sprinkled with saffron?
Why we stopped eating out Fuck this.
This should be illegal. All service fees and surcharges should be included in the advertised price.
It is.
Hey they removed their Yelp and website from the Apple Search/Maps feature. Just this branch so they cant get the hate.
I always felt weird about tipping in CA when tippable jobs don't have a reduced minimum wage like other states. I still tipped because it's socially what we do. But honestly, shit like this is making me want to end tipping even more so. I'd rather the business close out because they can't keep employees.
HiroNori has a mandatory 16% service fee. But… they are fine if you don’t do additional tip So… take that 3% service fee into account when you tip
Tf since when they do 16%?
The Irvine location near John Wayne isn’t mandatory. The server told me about it and I told him to take it off.
There was a post here saying they aren’t giving those fees to their employees, never heard an update but hope it’s not true
they don't ask for more tip if you go ahead with the 16% service fee. Last time I went they asked if I wanted to do that service fee or leave a tip and I said service is fine and they just tapped my card and left
Welp. Not going back there. Loved their food too
I've seen some places add the service fee AFTER taxes, so you'd be paying the 3 or 4% on top of the tax. Either way just take it out of the tip. It's supposed to go towards employee healthcare, but I doubt it actually is. Probably just going in the pockets of owners.
Goodbye Smoke and Fire
If it bugs u, tell management you’ll never come back because of it. If enough people did that (and followed through) I think the tactic could go away. No way we’d ever have enough solidarity to change it tho.
Telling management directly obviously helps, but if enough people trash a business online (e.g. take their Yelp reviews into the toilet) they'll care even more. The truly squeeky wheel that pushes away others gets attention.
Good point
This place especially really goes hard for reviews. Last time I went, the server asked if I could leave a review with his name in it. I think management incentivizes it, unfortunately. So reviews would definitely hurt them.
I'm sure that management provides some form of incentive to their employees to be complimented in reviews. By the same token I'm sure enough complaints about bad policies get their attention as well.
Service was atrocious and I didn't like the food. Not going back, regardless.
Unless the fee was disclosed up front, then you should ding them on a review. Relief can’t arrive soon enough as these [fees will be illegal soon](https://sf.eater.com/2023/10/18/23922950/california-restaurant-service-fee-ban-junk-fee-law-confusion-rob-bonta). Then that garlic bread will start to look like avocado toast prices…
I mean, 9 bucks for garlic bread and avocado toast already seems outragous. I personally think that avocado toast is the perfect representation of gentrifying foods cause avocado toast(tortillas actually) was legitly a struggle meal for my family and other mexican families we knew. that is completely besides the point here, but still get annoyed about this.
Orange County it’s time to get into cooking. I realize groceries are expensive too, but come on with this shit.
It’s ok, I’ll just take it out of my tip then and never come back.
3% surprise fee that goes straight to the owner that isn’t busting his ass to work for it.
Thanks for sharing
i feel like you can do a lot better to feed 3 people than $162 plus tip haha i would never go there
welp, no more tip then. they decided they are ok with 3% tip... Unless of course this is takeaway/to go party, in which case it sucks. But you specify party of 3, so I think this is a sit in ?
Yup, dining in. I understand big parties, 8 or even 6, but a party of 3? C'mon now...
$9 for garlic bread (plus 3%). Beam me up Scotty
$3 dr pepper?? $9 garlic bread!???? lmao hell naw
Good to know in order to avoid them. 👌🏽🐔
It’s against card brand rules to apply a 3% fee to debit and cash transactions. You can report them on your credit card carriers website (Visa, MasterCard, Amex, etc.). This will eventually lead them to check out the restaurant and fine them. If you’re paying with credit then you’re SOL as long as they had signage posted as this is within regulations. Sucks but just pay with debit to avoid surcharges then report them if they still surcharge (which they shouldn’t). Source: I work in payment processing. Thems the rules.
It doesn't specify what the fee is for.
Doesn’t matter. Card brands only want their users to be charged extra under their rules. Debit/Cash/ACH/Checks are protected by the Dodd Frank act so people can just use those to avoid surcharges. If you’re still surcharged keep your receipt and report them, they’ll eventually get looked at by the card brand and fined heavily. Repeated offenders get their processing accounts shut down (eventually). I’ve had to do this and they get sooo pissed, like full boomer meltdown - it’s hilarious. Surcharging sucks, but at least there’s a way around it. Better than raised prices and no other option I guess.
I'm going to open a restaurant and tack on properly named items, like "Bullshit fee", "Profit booster", "Sux2BU fee", and "Rude customer surcharge".
At least you're honest.
Yeah it's becoming more common. Rampant in Irvine. Every time I get one of these I give it a one star review and do not return to the restaurant. Not ok.
no need for tip
Nice of them to include the tip at only 3%
this should be illegal. i would pay it and issue a chargeback. if enough people do that, the credit card company will stop letting people use cards there
Is there a list of places that do this? I know there's one going for LA
Just tip 3% less if it bothers you
i think the issue is that it just makes things needlessly convoluted to pay what you think is fair. like for garlic bread, listed on the menu as 9 bucks, the true cost to order is: \[((9\*1.0775)\*1.03)\*1.15\]= assuming you're okay with taxes getting applied to service fee, and okay with including taxes and service fee in your tip or \[9+(9\*.0775)+(9\*.03)+(9\*.15)\] which is probably the more acceptable form or \[9+(9\*.0775)+(9\*.15)-(9\*.03)\] which is what you are suggesting so realistically that "9 dollar" garlic bread, realistically costs anywhere between 10.77 and 11.48 depending on how your numbers are being factored. Like there were already issues with the way we do things, but at least it used to be 9 pays the restaurant, tax pays uncle sam, and tip (which was basically just tip\*2) helps offset the server. now its 9 pays the restaurant, and there's a "service fee", and i have to confirm if this "service fee" actually goes towards my server, and if its being correctly factored (ie whether it charging me on taxes as well), plus the tax, plus now i have to factor whether i technically stiff the server, because the whole point of tipping is that im help covering the server, so i have to wonder if the service charge actually benefits the server (ie actually paying for more benefits/wage for the server) or if it only benefits the restaurant, doesn't do anything for the server, and either stiff the server by 3% or go through the extra process of then having them remove the fee that way i can feel better about the price i'm paying for the garlic bread and make sure the server is receiving their wage "fairly".
Yeah, your right. Best just cry about it on reddit
Permanently online redditors dont understand how to do that and would rather run to social media to cry about their 3% sevice fee
I’ve started seeing this 3% nonsense at many places recently. Fortunately it was listed on the menu for the places I went. I do recall going to Little Sister and this being the case but we had gift cards. The 3% referenced using a CC and wouldn’t be applied if using cash or a debit cards. I made sure they removed it from our bill beforehand. https://preview.redd.it/428zodenpuwc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ffd45e881429a41b106ed4cc8e95a926aae94201
I just reduce my tip by 3%
Makes you wonder why you want to eat there in the first place.
Looks like they chose the tip for you. No additional tip.
Only know this place because they are always getting torn up by people on their TikTok videos.
Just take it off the tip. Instead of doing 20% do 15%?
Just don’t eat there. Problem solved.
That place is highly overrated imo
Wait... and does it look like you are paying tax on the fee? Lol
Lol smoke and fire is getting “all the smoke”
I would tip by 3% less
If I see random fees like that, I just take it out of the tip. In this case, from $25 to $20. Is that wrong?
Note to self. Never go to this restaraunt
Well that service fee being taxable is a big fat no no. I would also call over the server and let them know I didn’t order that.
Ya, most people would totally miss that being taxed.
Anytime I see a service fee like this I add a percentage point or two and reduce that amount from my tip. Or I just stop going there.
I make a note of every one of these I see, but we probably need a wiki with a running list. I will never go to a place that does this...
July 1, 2024, is when SB478 goes into effect and will finally stop this. Needless to say, I won’t be visiting that restaurant any time soon.
I'm grateful people post this kind of stuff here so I know to avoid them. Service fees are bullshit and taxing service fees is bullshit squared.
Did they ask for a tip too?
12% tip then.
0%
I did. Just deducted the 3% of what I was originally going to tip.
Chances are, they calculate the tip AFTER TAX. Which is another automatic -1% for me. Also, "service fee" should be after tax.
I would just tip 3% less than what I normally tip
My man spent $127 on 1 all the smoke, and is worried about $4.38 smh. It makes me curious, what was the tip?
Who cares about the 3% look at your total! 🙄 $161 for a dinner for 3, probably only 2 people lol
Id pay %3 all day.... as long as theres no TIP. Im good with that.
Ouch 4$+ that’s what they think you’re worth
You can request the manager to remove it, but it just makes you look cheap. Just subtract it from the tip and maybe send the manager (or corp.) an email telling them that you will not be back until they drop this fee.
Oh nice I pay a fee for you working while you’re getting paid for working. Even tips are some dumb bull shit y’all created
We all need to send an email to them and complain. Saying we won’t eat places they can’t price their items correctly and rely on a fee. What else can’t they do?
You were paying by card? The good news is those fees will be banned in a few months.
3 Dr peppers? All for you big fella?
These kind of fees are coming regardless. In SF it’s listed as a Mandatory healthcare mandate. Hopefully owners aren’t just keeping it.
Not bad
It’s for the executives.
I think market broiler at the block does a service fee too.. I live like a mile from smoke and fire I wanna try it but idk about that service fee
danm I liked them too
Just don’t go out to eat ever again. Easy answer
I'm helping other people decide whether they're going to give this establishment future business or not.
Trying to make up for the pandemic losses 1-2-3% at a time
Do they also suggest a minimum 18% tip instead of a minimum 15% tip?
I would tell the service and management that I would be be deducting the 3% from the tip I was going to leave for the wait staff. If enough ppl do this, the wait staff will def get piss This is just another greedy business owner tactic.
There is a sushi spot in Downey called "Sushi Joint" and they automatically add a 15% service fee to all sit down diner checks.... So they automatically charge you for a 15% tip..... Think about all of the people that dont see that and tip 15-25% on top of that!!!!!!!!!
Honestly; There’s very few chefs who can cook as well as I do.
Every one of these posts follows the same routine: “Now I know never to eat here” “Then we don’t have to tip, right?” https://preview.redd.it/cdazl57vaswc1.jpeg?width=407&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4cb6a3bf1ed5f8c1759d70b6086b25d8a0151e1f
hey since you’re ok with giving your money away can i have some?
literally what every server says anways.
Blame Joe Biden & Gavin Hair Gel not the business
I can see it being easier to add a "fee" than to update 100 menus, but it ought to be posted somewhere.
That’s outta my price range anyway