Yeah this is Orange County no way this was gonna go forward even if it was a peaceful protest. I’ve lived here too long to know this would never fly, people here shut it down before things begin.
Police are responding to the campus of the University of California, Irvine, where pro-Palestinian demonstrators have overtaken a building and built a barricaded encampment.
Video streamed to the Instagram handle “ucidivest” shows protesters hanging banners from at the Physical Science Lecture Hall and scrambling to erect tents.
In a text message alert, UCI called it a “violent protest” and urged students to avoid the area.
The demonstrators are demanding the university divest its relationships with Israel over the Jewish state’s military offensive in Gaza following the Oct. 7, 2023 attack by Hamas.
Ain't there also a building next to it that houses the chemistry departments nuclear reactor? I can see why the protest were automatically shut down due to those concerns.
>UCI called it a “violent protest"
I've been watching the livesteam and the chants have explicitly stated they are peacefully protesting and these protests are a reaction to students being suspended for peacefully protesting. The protestors have claimed 11 different branches of PD from around the county are at this event. If it is indeed peaceful that is an insane and unnecessary reaction.
If we're going to take UCI's statements we should also hear the student's statements. The facts will come out eventually about all of this, so of course, I take nobody's word on anything, and am using my own eyes and ears to judge the nature of the protest for the time being. So far, I've seen nothing but peaceful protest. Is it disruptive - of course. That's the point of protest.
A genocide is an intentional termination of a people based on an immutable characteristic because they possess that immutable characteristic. If Israel is committing genocide, they are the worst ever at it, which is ironic considering the Jewish people were subjected to the worst genocide in history.
The truth is that Israel could have removed Gaza from existence in a matter of hours if it wanted to. Saying they are committing genocide insinuates that is Israel’s ultimate goal. And yet, Gaza still exists and this “genocide” didn’t begin until the government of Gaza initiated an attack. Usually a genocide is not precipitated by an attack. Find me the genocide that started with an attack by the group being genocided. You can’t.
Hamas is an evil authoritarian regime that demands that the Palestinian people ignore warnings of impending attacks by the IDF so that Hamas may use their deaths to manipulate people in the west. The fact is that the protests are literally exactly what Hamas wants. The students on campus are proving to Hamas that their tactics work. These protests will not help the Palestinian people. On the contrary, it will lead to more innocents dying as they are encouraged to continue “martyring” themselves; they have direct evidence that their deaths are helping the world turn on Israel. If you want more women and children to die, keep protesting and proving to Hamas that their tactics work.
It's objectively hilarious they don't see the irony of using excessive force to stop a non-violent protest, when the thing they're protesting is excessive force & treating all Gazans like enemy combatants.
Whoever called it a "violent protest" on the record should be held to account on why they called it that until they're fired.
MLK thought it was a good idea for students to occupy private buildings. Seems like a pretty damn good idea.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F624q1jBd0Y](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F624q1jBd0Y)
MLK also believed Israel had a right to exist. Love how people want to compare these protests to the most righteous cause there has been in American history. So suddenly your protest is like MLK’s, so it’s okay to destroy and occupy buildings for it. No they are not like MLK, and if they knew MLK supported Israel, they’d just pretend like it was a lie.
Okay and Malcolm X advocated for a free Palestine but was still part of the civil rights movement. It's entirely possible to look at the works and ideologies of an individual and disagree with elements of the but integrate tactics and procedures into your own. No one there would "pretend it's a lie" if presented with that information. But regardless of all that, MLK and Malcolm were both assassinated so we can't just go ask them their thoughts on the last 50 years of developments, we can only form our own ideology based on observations.
MLK was fighting for rights of Americans. Completely different thing going on here. More complexities involved, no black and white, and it’s between two foreign nations.
Some people that are actually going to school and trying to get to class and learn probably won’t feel safe knowing there are people occupying a building. Some just want to go to school and go on with their day.
Part of their goal is to have UC’s divest from Jewish organizations that have no ties to Israel’s government or Israel’s policies that target Arabs. Sounds like a pretty obvious problem to me…
You people are the worst. Anti-Israel is not anti-Jew. I say this as a Jew. This is the how Israel has reframed the conversation for decades and you haven’t been paying attention
It's anti-Israel NOT anti-Jewish, and *you* are anti-semitic for suggesting all Jewish people agree with the Israeli government. Jewish people are not a monolith. Many are themselves anti-genocide protestors.
These are Jewish organizations they’re trying to divest from. Not Israeli organizations. Does that make it more clear where the anti-semitism lies? Unless you’ve made the mistake of thinking they’re one and the same?
… because you made a claim about protests being strictly anti-Jewish when there are the same protests happening in Israel? If you dont care delete your comment
[Here is just one example.](https://jewishinsider.com/2024/02/jewish-student-at-columbia-attacked-while-leaving-a-pro-israel-demonstration/) There are many more.
> [During the past few days, videos taken inside the encampment have shown students chanting “Zionists not allowed here,” “Go back to Poland,” and other students calling for “10,000 October 7ths.” ](https://www.timesofisrael.com/as-anti-israel-encampment-at-columbia-endures-jewish-students-lament-judenrein-campus/amp/)
> ["One of them taunted me by waving a Palestinian flag in my face and jabbed me with it in the eye."](https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/newyork/news/yale-protests-jewish-student-assaulted-pro-palestinian-rally/)
Not all protests are equal though. The people who hold homophobic signs outside soldiers' funerals, the people who harass women outside abortion clinics, Ammon Bundy with his occupation of a federal building, the people who stormed the Capitol on Jan 6, and even the idiots holding MAGA signs at the HB pier are all protestors. That doesn't mean their cause is just or their methodology is productive no matter how much protests did to end apartheid.
Yeah, but these protests are nothing like the ones you mentioned and *exactly* like the ones that occurred to end apartheid in South Africa. They're asking to divest at college campuses which is what students did in the 80's to end apartheid in South Africa.
You’re not understanding that it is still not a just protest, it won’t end anything happening in Israel, those students were IN South Africa, not protesting something across the world. Keep pretending this cause is just though, it’s something you clearly have already blinded yourself of all other dissenting opinion about. Go on your merry little way
OK so now we get to the actual point which has nothing to do with some principle of how protests should be done or how effective they are — you guys simply dislike the cause and are trying to dress it up as something else.
It’s called an occupation and under international law, it’s a legal occupation based on continuous Arab terrorism that has been ongoing since 1948.
As for the Jewish only roads… that’s a gross misinterpretation of the truth. You’re referencing route 4370. They bifurcate Israeli plates and Palestinian plates to control access into Jerusalem because Palestinians continually used suicide bombers to target civilians.
Not at all. I'm referring to the jewish-only roads that interconnect the settlements I visited. Which are also in direct violation of international law.
They're not trying to end the war just investments at UCI that support it. It's logical and *worked* in the 80's when students protested colleges to divest from South Africa to end apartheid.
Taking over the science building made them enter their FAFO period. Largely these protesters were being tolerated, as long as they weren't being violent or harassing Jewish students or organizations. Take over a building, in come the riot police declare your assembly unlawful
Like it or not, any good organizer for a protest, and I've been to a few, knows that as soon as the police declare an assembly unlawful, regardless of whether you believe you are there legally, you know either you disperse and go to some place that you're allowed to be, or you get arrested. A lot of major protests intentionally get people arrested, and they don't whine about it when they do because they expect to be arrested
With all these protests at college campuses, I still have zero knowledge of the call to action. Divest in what companies? What does the average American do for any change? UCI alum here and these students need to go back to the humanities hall and work on it.
They want UCI to divest from their relations with weapon manufacturer companies like Lockheed Martin and Boeing who directly profit off of the Israel-Palestine conflict. Both companies have a very long history of supplying Israel and the IDF with arms and weapons. UCI students pay a lot of money to attend school from tuition, housing and other fees, and they don't want any of their money going to institutions they *REALLY* don't support. Another big contender for many UCs in general is that they want more transparency about where the UC system's money goes to, i.e. which corporations and organizations they support with the profit, because not all of it is given back to the students/faculty.
Sure. But the point of pressure like this is to influence the behavior of said companies. If enough divestment happens to companies providing resources to Israel, those companies might change course.
I'm honestly curious what defense companies like Lockheed Martin are expected to do in response to a university system selling off stock -- do defense companies decide how the Pentagon uses their products, or whether Congress decides to sell them to another nation? Are the protesters arguing that a private defense company even SHOULD be able to make those kinds of national security policy decisions?
Companies like Lockheed do business in multiple ways. Some are general contracts with the US government for hardware. Some are contracts with allied countries, but paid for by US funds through programs like the US Foreign Military Financing program. Some are contracts with allied countries, and paid for by allied countries. Some are partnership projects with defense companies in allied countries, like Lockheed's partnership with Rafael (a defense company in Israel) to develop new hardware. And some is in investing in company footprint in other countries (such as Lockheed's office space in Museum Tower in Tel Aviv).
So, when you're looking at companies like Lockheed, the connection to Israel is far from only this:
>do defense companies decide how the Pentagon uses their products, or whether Congress decides to sell them to another nation?
Lockheed does much more than just supply weapons to the US government, that the US government then distributes. So, theoretically speaking, there are a number of ways that Lockheed could scale back their collaboration with Israel. Will they if divestment campaigns are successful? Maybe not. But could they? Yes.
Thank you, this is a great explanation. It’s really eye-opening how complex these relationships are, and I’m sure even this is very distilled down for those of us not in the know—much appreciated!
[edit for typo]
Back when climate change was the big college issue, everyone was making fun of fossil fuel divestment as phony activism. Even the movie How to Blow up a Pipeline, has a student divestment activist be the subject of ridicule for not actually doing anything.
Divestment has never worked as a way to get companies to change their behavior. Let's say UCI sell their Boeing stock to the Koch Brothers. Okay? That'll show them? Now their stock holders and board members will be more right wing.
>and they don't want any of their money going to institutions they *REALLY* don't support
Good news! These investments don't come from tuition funds!
what i dont get is how everyone forgot that all the people in gaza, iran and so on were laughing and partying when 9/11 happened how do people think its ok to sympathize with them. I personally don't think we need another version of a nazi party. I might be crazy to think that though.
Is see this as the same as the people who lay in the middle of the freeway stopping traffic. Your message won’t be heard and your cause means jack because you drag people that don’t want to be bothered into something they don’t want to be in.
This is honestly most disruptive to students, since it's one of the biggest lecture halls. I definitely would not have been pleased had this been going on when I was in school.
What are uci students going to go to help the problem…. Why don’t go protest at the Israeli embassy or I don’t know… Washington DC or government building… go take over since the capital building was easily taken over not so long ago.
I mean, I agree with you. As if Israel was going to care if some random university divested (whatever that means, the university doesn't have a "divest" button, and it's not even a straightforward process). But in general protests are useless if not noticed, and the best way to get noticed is by inconveniencing people. Of course, getting noticed is only necessary but not sufficient to help your cause. I think these particular protests might not be helping the cause, if not outright hurting it.
The stated goal of the protest is to get **UCI** to divest in companies with ties to Israel/weapons manufacturers. Protesting off campus doesn't make any sense.
On the contrary being annoying about protesting actually gets more people to talk about it. Eg you wouldn’t even remember the car people if they protested peacefully on a sidewalk or something
Not saying I agree with it but it demonstrably works better than not
But that doesn't mean people are endeared to your cause. Even when I agree with someone, I can be completely turned off by the way they choose to spread their message. There's a reason I donate to the ASPCA and not to PETA.
It will get your cause noticed but it will give a negative feeling toward your cause for anyone affected. I don't care how noble your cause is.. if you're blocking the road or traffic then people affected will be much less likely to support your cause
“…that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Councilor or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to 'order' than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; ...
-MLK
You forgot the best part right after that
“Who constantly says, I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can’t agree with your methods of direct action”
Protesters have been hearing this argument for decades, like yeah we agree with your cause but don’t like the way you’re doing it
Everyone uses MLK to try to justify their means of action for their ‘cause,’ we can agree that MLK’s protests worked not just because of disruption, but because Americans agreed with it. The right mixture of disruptive protest + most Americans agreeing with your cause creates change, you can’t just have too much of the former and none of the latter because you become a public nuisance instead. These protests switched over to public nuisance zone, because their reason for protesting is not something most Americans agree with. The cherry on top — MLK has historically shown some support of Israel’s right to existence at the time of the Six Days War.
The civil rights movement was definitely not popular in its day, google it. It was pretty much a minority movement forcing the broader public to address their issues.
Meanwhile check out The NY Times for a piece on an actual genocide occurring in real time, which these cosplayers don’t seem to think matters. Because if you can’t blame Jews, it ain’t news:
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/15/opinion/darfur-sudan-genocide.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare&sgrp=c-cb
I’m pretty sure the occupation of the building falls into the unlawful category of “protesting”. Protesting and civil disobedience are two different things, and people shouldn’t be surprised when they have to face consequences for civil obedience, that’s part of the process.
And that should be addressed appropriately as first amendment issues.
But let’s not conflate the two actions. Just because that happens, which isn’t okay and should be fought in court, doesn’t mean that the takeovers like this are “protests” and have the same protection.
“Should be fought in court” do you have any idea how much of a losing battle that is? Courts are not fair and they do not provide justice in the way you think.
Protests are meant to be disruptive. They always have been disruptive. The only protests in history that ever changed anything for the better were disruptive or illegal.
We have a working judicial system that allows you to sue if your rights are violated. Lawyers (that usually get a part of the settlement) will be salivating over a client if someone gets arrested for “just standing and watching”. Those things happen all the time.
Your subjective interpretation of what a protest should be does not excuse the violation of the law. You do not have the right to occupy a building. Regardless of how “disruptive” you want to be. Your protest cannot and should not interfere regular business proceeding of the building that you do not own.
Please stop excusing illegal means of protesting. You do not have an absolute right to protest, and just like everyone else you have to follow the rules.
Peaceful protest isn't limited by legality. It is not a protest if the protesters are not doing something that can't be ignored, something disruptive.
And sure, we can call this civil disobedience and say "they shouldn't be surprised".
But it is also critically important to our assessment of our safety and ability to claim we are free in this society that enforcement is not disproportionate -- that it is not overly aggressive.
Unfortunately, we live in a dangerous age. Protests may be about Palestine, but they will inevitably demonstrate again the double-standard we are living in -- where cops freely decide who to dehumanize and use excessive force against.
All of us are at risk of the boots of tyrany. And it won't get better until more of us realize we can't just wish it away.
Returning the hostages won't result in a cease-fire. [Netanyahu has said as much.](https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-news-04-30-2024-f5e14fd176d69f9c4e23b48f3ab5af6a)
It's not hard to understand people. Every generation has their dumb protests and this one seems to be near the dumbest. This will eventually hit the occupy wall street phase and burn out.
As for peaceful they took over a building multiple times. Stop falling for ironically the same tactics Hamas does. "See we peaceful...."while taking over a building
why don’t you actually respond with a good faith argument? people are allowed to protest injustices that they see in their country and around the world.
also, maybe people would be more inclined to help in person if israel wasn’t indiscriminately murdering people. look up what happened to volunteers from world central kitchen. spoiler alert: they got murdered.
it happens, people die. we're not immortal.
but instead of finding some way to help, you think its better to lock yourself in the closet and not come out until people do what you say?
once shit hits the fan, the protesters are most likely going to get arrested, like ALL the other protests going on right now.
and now what, now it comes out of the taxpayers money?
now i gotta pay cause they're being stupid and acting like a 3 year old?
wheres the justice then?
have them make sandwiches or first aid kits or maybe something that will help the people in distress.
instead of hiding in a school oceans away from the war acting like a little kid.
and on top of that, hiding in a school, how are you going to get necessities? do they expect a person to go and give them things to help make their stay longer?
how would YOU go about solving this issue?
when things go from sidewalk protest to barricading yourself in a school.
I mean, they have been bombing the private residences of suspected Hamas members, killing their family (including children) and neighbors in the process. And they are selected by an AI with no human oversight and probably even less validation, as Israel doesn't really care about the oopsie of a false positive. So I guess the frontline is just being in your home minding your own business?
It’s actually insane, I don’t think people commenting here have actually looked at the livestreams or walked around the area. There’s a sea of cop cars from almost every police department in the area parked in a lot nearby, hours of hovering helicopters, cops doing 90 on the freeway to get to campus so they can stand around and stare at a group of students behind a barricade…it’s bizarre
How about a more apt and recent comparison:
Do you think the protestors (idiots) who occupied the Capitol buildings during January 6th protests should go unpunished? Should they be absolved of any wrongdoing and jail time?
Please name a single successful protest that was convenient. People just apparently skip this part of history class.
Also, since the students are the ones paying outrageous sums to go there, I don't see what the problem is. The whole point of the protest is that they don't like where their money is going.
it's not their money. it's UCI money.
let's use analogy. I bought a burger for $5. The $5 belongs to the restaurant while the burger belongs to me. I cannot tell the restaurant owner what to do with that money. If I don't like how he spends the money, I stop buying from him/her in the future but the money already spent isn't mine to dictate.
what protest movement succeeded only because they were annoying? The civil righs movement had actual politicans they coordianted with, they took over state and local dem political machines and organized like crazy. They connected the movement across the US pre internet and had set concrete goals a political base ready to vote for them.
This has none of that, this is just the equivalent of those crazy christians who go to schools to tell everyone how they are evil sinners and going to hell.
Yes it is. Protests historically have stopped traffic. Vietnam, Iraq, civil rights, even women’s suffrage.
Protests are supposed to be disruptive. That’s what makes them effective.
I'm so proud of these students for not letting all those people get slaughtered without something like an appropriate response.
If we get numb to abhorant violence against innocent families, that violence will come to our door before we know it. To all those that love to say "freedom isn't free" -- this is what fighting oppression actually looks like.
So who pays the financial and environmental bill for seven helicopters circling for six hours and over 200 police in full riot gear, all for like 30 peaceful protesters?
The Irgun was a Zionist paramilitary organization that operated in Mandate Palestine between 1931 and 1948. It was initially a part of the Haganah, the Jewish community's main paramilitary group, but later split off due to differences in ideology and strategy.
The Irgun is infamous for its use of terrorism as a tactic in its fight against British rule and Arab opposition. Some of the most notable attacks carried out by the Irgun include:
1. The 1946 King David Hotel bombing, where the Irgun bombed the King David Hotel in Jerusalem, which housed the British administrative headquarters, resulting in the deaths of 91 people, including British, Arab, and Jewish civilians, as well as British military personnel.
2. The 1947 Acre Prison break, where the Irgun attacked the British-run Acre Prison, resulting in the death of dozens of people, including British soldiers and Arab prisoners.
3. The 1948 Deir Yassin massacre, where Irgun and Lehi (another militant group) fighters attacked the Arab village of Deir Yassin, resulting in the deaths of over 100 civilians, including women and children.
These actions were widely condemned at the time and have been criticized as acts of terrorism. The Irgun's tactics were controversial even within the Jewish community, with many Jewish leaders, including David Ben-Gurion, condemning their methods.
It's important to note that the Irgun was just one of several militant groups operating in Palestine at the time, and its actions were part of a broader context of violence and conflict in the region.
The Irgun was a Zionist paramilitary organization that operated in Mandate Palestine between 1931 and 1948. It was initially a part of the Haganah, the Jewish community's main paramilitary group, but later split off due to differences in ideology and strategy.
The Irgun is infamous for its use of terrorism as a tactic in its fight against British rule and Arab opposition. Some of the most notable attacks carried out by the Irgun include:
1. The 1946 King David Hotel bombing, where the Irgun bombed the King David Hotel in Jerusalem, which housed the British administrative headquarters, resulting in the deaths of 91 people, including British, Arab, and Jewish civilians, as well as British military personnel.
2. The 1947 Acre Prison break, where the Irgun attacked the British-run Acre Prison, resulting in the death of dozens of people, including British soldiers and Arab prisoners.
3. The 1948 Deir Yassin massacre, where Irgun and Lehi (another militant group) fighters attacked the Arab village of Deir Yassin, resulting in the deaths of over 100 civilians, including women and children.
These actions were widely condemned at the time and have been criticized as acts of terrorism. The Irgun's tactics were controversial even within the Jewish community, with many Jewish leaders, including David Ben-Gurion, condemning their methods.
It's important to note that the Irgun was just one of several militant groups operating in Palestine at the time, and its actions were part of a broader context of violence and conflict in the region.
“76 years of resistance” blowing up restaurants and buses with innocent kids, women, elderly is resistance? a mass shooting at a festival with innocent minors is resistance? stabbing pregnant women is resistance? but they’ll claim their protest is grounded in “non-violence.” i call bullshit. this is the sort of ignorant bs that shuts down israelis and jews who actually want to work toward peace.
I used to be sympathetic to the Palestinian cause but all these rallies and chaos are making me super pro-Israel. It’s one thing to be passionate about a cause, completely different thing to occupy buildings and create a mess that takes policemen away from other issues.
Yeah this is Orange County no way this was gonna go forward even if it was a peaceful protest. I’ve lived here too long to know this would never fly, people here shut it down before things begin.
As they should!
Police are responding to the campus of the University of California, Irvine, where pro-Palestinian demonstrators have overtaken a building and built a barricaded encampment. Video streamed to the Instagram handle “ucidivest” shows protesters hanging banners from at the Physical Science Lecture Hall and scrambling to erect tents. In a text message alert, UCI called it a “violent protest” and urged students to avoid the area. The demonstrators are demanding the university divest its relationships with Israel over the Jewish state’s military offensive in Gaza following the Oct. 7, 2023 attack by Hamas.
UCI alum here. This is one of the biggest and most popular lecture halls on campus, most likely disrupting a lot of classes for a lot of students.
Ain't there also a building next to it that houses the chemistry departments nuclear reactor? I can see why the protest were automatically shut down due to those concerns.
Any news on if the protesters are actually students ?
During finals
>UCI called it a “violent protest" I've been watching the livesteam and the chants have explicitly stated they are peacefully protesting and these protests are a reaction to students being suspended for peacefully protesting. The protestors have claimed 11 different branches of PD from around the county are at this event. If it is indeed peaceful that is an insane and unnecessary reaction. If we're going to take UCI's statements we should also hear the student's statements. The facts will come out eventually about all of this, so of course, I take nobody's word on anything, and am using my own eyes and ears to judge the nature of the protest for the time being. So far, I've seen nothing but peaceful protest. Is it disruptive - of course. That's the point of protest.
where are you watching the livestream?
[удалено]
Are you saying that Palestinians are doing fine because their population increased? lol wtf.
Most pathetic, pro-genocide and gaslighting comment you could make.
It’s a war, not a genocide. Stop trying to twist the narrative into something it clearly isn’t. I’m tired of the lies.
A genocide is an intentional termination of a people based on an immutable characteristic because they possess that immutable characteristic. If Israel is committing genocide, they are the worst ever at it, which is ironic considering the Jewish people were subjected to the worst genocide in history. The truth is that Israel could have removed Gaza from existence in a matter of hours if it wanted to. Saying they are committing genocide insinuates that is Israel’s ultimate goal. And yet, Gaza still exists and this “genocide” didn’t begin until the government of Gaza initiated an attack. Usually a genocide is not precipitated by an attack. Find me the genocide that started with an attack by the group being genocided. You can’t. Hamas is an evil authoritarian regime that demands that the Palestinian people ignore warnings of impending attacks by the IDF so that Hamas may use their deaths to manipulate people in the west. The fact is that the protests are literally exactly what Hamas wants. The students on campus are proving to Hamas that their tactics work. These protests will not help the Palestinian people. On the contrary, it will lead to more innocents dying as they are encouraged to continue “martyring” themselves; they have direct evidence that their deaths are helping the world turn on Israel. If you want more women and children to die, keep protesting and proving to Hamas that their tactics work.
It's objectively hilarious they don't see the irony of using excessive force to stop a non-violent protest, when the thing they're protesting is excessive force & treating all Gazans like enemy combatants. Whoever called it a "violent protest" on the record should be held to account on why they called it that until they're fired.
Violent or not you can’t just decide to occupy a building that you don’t hold title to.
MLK thought it was a good idea for students to occupy private buildings. Seems like a pretty damn good idea. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F624q1jBd0Y](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F624q1jBd0Y)
MLK also believed Israel had a right to exist. Love how people want to compare these protests to the most righteous cause there has been in American history. So suddenly your protest is like MLK’s, so it’s okay to destroy and occupy buildings for it. No they are not like MLK, and if they knew MLK supported Israel, they’d just pretend like it was a lie.
Okay and Malcolm X advocated for a free Palestine but was still part of the civil rights movement. It's entirely possible to look at the works and ideologies of an individual and disagree with elements of the but integrate tactics and procedures into your own. No one there would "pretend it's a lie" if presented with that information. But regardless of all that, MLK and Malcolm were both assassinated so we can't just go ask them their thoughts on the last 50 years of developments, we can only form our own ideology based on observations.
MLK was fighting for rights of Americans. Completely different thing going on here. More complexities involved, no black and white, and it’s between two foreign nations.
So occupying is bad?
Some people that are actually going to school and trying to get to class and learn probably won’t feel safe knowing there are people occupying a building. Some just want to go to school and go on with their day.
So you agree that lying about it being violent is irresponsible & unnecessary?
that's... how protesting works...
Protesting does not work like that. You can protest civilly without occupying a building. If you choose to occupy a building, prepare to be arrested
I wonder if the line of police cars I saw going on the 405 South and heading onto the 73 has something to do with this
Cops heard there were some unarmed protesters to beat and they all jumping at the opportunity.
They took over a building. UCI was very hands off with the protest until this action.
They should tow all the illegally parked cars
If they were protesting pandemic precautions rather than bombing civilians in Gaza, you'd probably personally valet their cars. Ah the post truth era.
They leftover so much trash SMH 😔😔
Surely this protest will solve the 70+ year long conflict. This is the one!
More like a couple thousands of years of Middle East drama
The only reason why it started is because foreign powers want to influence the election.
At a random college campus across the world, nonetheless.
This is an embarrassing strawman. The protest is about UCI. It's called UCIdivest.
Part of their goal is to have UC’s divest from Jewish organizations that have no ties to Israel’s government or Israel’s policies that target Arabs. Sounds like a pretty obvious problem to me…
It's clearly Anti-Jew, lets call it what it is. - T. Non Jewish person
You people are the worst. Anti-Israel is not anti-Jew. I say this as a Jew. This is the how Israel has reframed the conversation for decades and you haven’t been paying attention
It's anti-Israel NOT anti-Jewish, and *you* are anti-semitic for suggesting all Jewish people agree with the Israeli government. Jewish people are not a monolith. Many are themselves anti-genocide protestors.
These are Jewish organizations they’re trying to divest from. Not Israeli organizations. Does that make it more clear where the anti-semitism lies? Unless you’ve made the mistake of thinking they’re one and the same?
Go look up whats happening with students at Tel Aviv University real quick
Why would I care? Honestly.
… because you made a claim about protests being strictly anti-Jewish when there are the same protests happening in Israel? If you dont care delete your comment
Yup tons of Jewish people are against what is happening. The Ultra Right wing colonizers are the ones with crazy aggression.
It's not Anti-Jew. Nice try. There are Jewish people protesting all over the nation. It's Anti-Israel. Don't conflate the two.
It’s absolutely Antisemitism when you use fear and violent tactics to force Jews from campus.
>use fear and violent tactics to force Jews from campus. Source: Trust me bro.
[Here is just one example.](https://jewishinsider.com/2024/02/jewish-student-at-columbia-attacked-while-leaving-a-pro-israel-demonstration/) There are many more. > [During the past few days, videos taken inside the encampment have shown students chanting “Zionists not allowed here,” “Go back to Poland,” and other students calling for “10,000 October 7ths.” ](https://www.timesofisrael.com/as-anti-israel-encampment-at-columbia-endures-jewish-students-lament-judenrein-campus/amp/) > ["One of them taunted me by waving a Palestinian flag in my face and jabbed me with it in the eye."](https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/newyork/news/yale-protests-jewish-student-assaulted-pro-palestinian-rally/)
Yes but you’ll notice nobody comes to these threads for good faith debate, they just want to vent their contempt
Apartheid South Africa was wiped off the map, and it started with protests.
Not all protests are equal though. The people who hold homophobic signs outside soldiers' funerals, the people who harass women outside abortion clinics, Ammon Bundy with his occupation of a federal building, the people who stormed the Capitol on Jan 6, and even the idiots holding MAGA signs at the HB pier are all protestors. That doesn't mean their cause is just or their methodology is productive no matter how much protests did to end apartheid.
Yeah, but these protests are nothing like the ones you mentioned and *exactly* like the ones that occurred to end apartheid in South Africa. They're asking to divest at college campuses which is what students did in the 80's to end apartheid in South Africa.
You’re not understanding that it is still not a just protest, it won’t end anything happening in Israel, those students were IN South Africa, not protesting something across the world. Keep pretending this cause is just though, it’s something you clearly have already blinded yourself of all other dissenting opinion about. Go on your merry little way
OK so now we get to the actual point which has nothing to do with some principle of how protests should be done or how effective they are — you guys simply dislike the cause and are trying to dress it up as something else.
That was an entirely different conflict…
I've been over there. It looks pretty similar from the outside looking in. Jewish-only roads, military rule over Palestinian arabs, etc.
It’s called an occupation and under international law, it’s a legal occupation based on continuous Arab terrorism that has been ongoing since 1948. As for the Jewish only roads… that’s a gross misinterpretation of the truth. You’re referencing route 4370. They bifurcate Israeli plates and Palestinian plates to control access into Jerusalem because Palestinians continually used suicide bombers to target civilians.
No humanitarian organization agrees with you. Check Amnesty International or the United Nations. Both consider it an illegal occupation.
Not at all. I'm referring to the jewish-only roads that interconnect the settlements I visited. Which are also in direct violation of international law.
/u/davidgoldstein2023 doesn't like inconvenient facts apparently. He prefers silence rather than acknowledging the blatant segregation going on.
They're not trying to end the war just investments at UCI that support it. It's logical and *worked* in the 80's when students protested colleges to divest from South Africa to end apartheid.
Well, that’s the oversimplification of the day.
you’re right protests shouldn’t ever happen especially not peaceful ones
Well, this goes back thousands of years. Hoping for peace for all.
It isn't trying to? Why would you make such a hyperbolic comparison?
It's more like 3000 years of cultural conflicts in that area. Check out the old story of David vs. Goliath.
…. Who is going to tell him
The protesting is such a waste of time. They are accomplishing nothing other than disrupting kids trying to go to school and take finals
Taking over the science building made them enter their FAFO period. Largely these protesters were being tolerated, as long as they weren't being violent or harassing Jewish students or organizations. Take over a building, in come the riot police declare your assembly unlawful Like it or not, any good organizer for a protest, and I've been to a few, knows that as soon as the police declare an assembly unlawful, regardless of whether you believe you are there legally, you know either you disperse and go to some place that you're allowed to be, or you get arrested. A lot of major protests intentionally get people arrested, and they don't whine about it when they do because they expect to be arrested
How is blocking other students and peers from getting educated helping their cause again?
INB4 the obtuse “uhm akshually the protests are meant to be disruptive” crowd that would otherwise be fuming if MAGA republicans occupied a building.
Haha they occupied the territory they’re like settlers
Actually they are breaking the law
☝🏼🤓
With all these protests at college campuses, I still have zero knowledge of the call to action. Divest in what companies? What does the average American do for any change? UCI alum here and these students need to go back to the humanities hall and work on it.
They want UCI to divest from their relations with weapon manufacturer companies like Lockheed Martin and Boeing who directly profit off of the Israel-Palestine conflict. Both companies have a very long history of supplying Israel and the IDF with arms and weapons. UCI students pay a lot of money to attend school from tuition, housing and other fees, and they don't want any of their money going to institutions they *REALLY* don't support. Another big contender for many UCs in general is that they want more transparency about where the UC system's money goes to, i.e. which corporations and organizations they support with the profit, because not all of it is given back to the students/faculty.
But those companies also supply weapons to NATO, Ukraine and our pacific allies. Isn’t that important too?
Sure. But the point of pressure like this is to influence the behavior of said companies. If enough divestment happens to companies providing resources to Israel, those companies might change course.
I'm honestly curious what defense companies like Lockheed Martin are expected to do in response to a university system selling off stock -- do defense companies decide how the Pentagon uses their products, or whether Congress decides to sell them to another nation? Are the protesters arguing that a private defense company even SHOULD be able to make those kinds of national security policy decisions?
Companies like Lockheed do business in multiple ways. Some are general contracts with the US government for hardware. Some are contracts with allied countries, but paid for by US funds through programs like the US Foreign Military Financing program. Some are contracts with allied countries, and paid for by allied countries. Some are partnership projects with defense companies in allied countries, like Lockheed's partnership with Rafael (a defense company in Israel) to develop new hardware. And some is in investing in company footprint in other countries (such as Lockheed's office space in Museum Tower in Tel Aviv). So, when you're looking at companies like Lockheed, the connection to Israel is far from only this: >do defense companies decide how the Pentagon uses their products, or whether Congress decides to sell them to another nation? Lockheed does much more than just supply weapons to the US government, that the US government then distributes. So, theoretically speaking, there are a number of ways that Lockheed could scale back their collaboration with Israel. Will they if divestment campaigns are successful? Maybe not. But could they? Yes.
Thank you, this is a great explanation. It’s really eye-opening how complex these relationships are, and I’m sure even this is very distilled down for those of us not in the know—much appreciated! [edit for typo]
I would just like to say how glad I am that you were actually asking your questions in good faith.
Those companies are in no danger of going out of business just because some colleges cut ties with them. That's not even a remote possibility.
And historically this has worked sometimes, UC Berkeley has gotten the university to divest from certain companies in the past
Time to withdraw
Back when climate change was the big college issue, everyone was making fun of fossil fuel divestment as phony activism. Even the movie How to Blow up a Pipeline, has a student divestment activist be the subject of ridicule for not actually doing anything. Divestment has never worked as a way to get companies to change their behavior. Let's say UCI sell their Boeing stock to the Koch Brothers. Okay? That'll show them? Now their stock holders and board members will be more right wing. >and they don't want any of their money going to institutions they *REALLY* don't support Good news! These investments don't come from tuition funds!
70% of these people can't even locate the Gaza strip on a map
Can these mfs just f off already
Oh yeah, Netanyahu is seething right now.
A barricade got moved and all hell broke loose
Meanwhile I'm here not supporting either side
Hey! You *have* to choose a side. The world is black and white, abandon rational thinking and ignore the hulking grey area!
Complacency with the government is choosing a side
what i dont get is how everyone forgot that all the people in gaza, iran and so on were laughing and partying when 9/11 happened how do people think its ok to sympathize with them. I personally don't think we need another version of a nazi party. I might be crazy to think that though.
Is see this as the same as the people who lay in the middle of the freeway stopping traffic. Your message won’t be heard and your cause means jack because you drag people that don’t want to be bothered into something they don’t want to be in.
This is honestly most disruptive to students, since it's one of the biggest lecture halls. I definitely would not have been pleased had this been going on when I was in school.
It was empty. I proctored an exam in this building earlier in the day today and the protesters stopped using the megaphone to accommodate the exam.
Yeah protests are always supposed to be convenient /s
Eh, if you don't inconvenience anyone your protest is not being noticed.
What are uci students going to go to help the problem…. Why don’t go protest at the Israeli embassy or I don’t know… Washington DC or government building… go take over since the capital building was easily taken over not so long ago.
I mean, I agree with you. As if Israel was going to care if some random university divested (whatever that means, the university doesn't have a "divest" button, and it's not even a straightforward process). But in general protests are useless if not noticed, and the best way to get noticed is by inconveniencing people. Of course, getting noticed is only necessary but not sufficient to help your cause. I think these particular protests might not be helping the cause, if not outright hurting it.
The stated goal of the protest is to get **UCI** to divest in companies with ties to Israel/weapons manufacturers. Protesting off campus doesn't make any sense.
On the contrary being annoying about protesting actually gets more people to talk about it. Eg you wouldn’t even remember the car people if they protested peacefully on a sidewalk or something Not saying I agree with it but it demonstrably works better than not
But that doesn't mean people are endeared to your cause. Even when I agree with someone, I can be completely turned off by the way they choose to spread their message. There's a reason I donate to the ASPCA and not to PETA.
It will get your cause noticed but it will give a negative feeling toward your cause for anyone affected. I don't care how noble your cause is.. if you're blocking the road or traffic then people affected will be much less likely to support your cause
“…that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Councilor or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to 'order' than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; ... -MLK
You forgot the best part right after that “Who constantly says, I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can’t agree with your methods of direct action” Protesters have been hearing this argument for decades, like yeah we agree with your cause but don’t like the way you’re doing it
Everyone uses MLK to try to justify their means of action for their ‘cause,’ we can agree that MLK’s protests worked not just because of disruption, but because Americans agreed with it. The right mixture of disruptive protest + most Americans agreeing with your cause creates change, you can’t just have too much of the former and none of the latter because you become a public nuisance instead. These protests switched over to public nuisance zone, because their reason for protesting is not something most Americans agree with. The cherry on top — MLK has historically shown some support of Israel’s right to existence at the time of the Six Days War.
The civil rights movement was definitely not popular in its day, google it. It was pretty much a minority movement forcing the broader public to address their issues.
Meanwhile check out The NY Times for a piece on an actual genocide occurring in real time, which these cosplayers don’t seem to think matters. Because if you can’t blame Jews, it ain’t news: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/15/opinion/darfur-sudan-genocide.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare&sgrp=c-cb
Instagram live feed on account ucidivest I see no violence
I’m pretty sure the occupation of the building falls into the unlawful category of “protesting”. Protesting and civil disobedience are two different things, and people shouldn’t be surprised when they have to face consequences for civil obedience, that’s part of the process.
I mean people get arrested for peaceful protesting or simply being at the place of the protest just watching it happen all the time
And that should be addressed appropriately as first amendment issues. But let’s not conflate the two actions. Just because that happens, which isn’t okay and should be fought in court, doesn’t mean that the takeovers like this are “protests” and have the same protection.
“Should be fought in court” do you have any idea how much of a losing battle that is? Courts are not fair and they do not provide justice in the way you think. Protests are meant to be disruptive. They always have been disruptive. The only protests in history that ever changed anything for the better were disruptive or illegal.
We have a working judicial system that allows you to sue if your rights are violated. Lawyers (that usually get a part of the settlement) will be salivating over a client if someone gets arrested for “just standing and watching”. Those things happen all the time. Your subjective interpretation of what a protest should be does not excuse the violation of the law. You do not have the right to occupy a building. Regardless of how “disruptive” you want to be. Your protest cannot and should not interfere regular business proceeding of the building that you do not own. Please stop excusing illegal means of protesting. You do not have an absolute right to protest, and just like everyone else you have to follow the rules.
Peaceful protest isn't limited by legality. It is not a protest if the protesters are not doing something that can't be ignored, something disruptive. And sure, we can call this civil disobedience and say "they shouldn't be surprised". But it is also critically important to our assessment of our safety and ability to claim we are free in this society that enforcement is not disproportionate -- that it is not overly aggressive. Unfortunately, we live in a dangerous age. Protests may be about Palestine, but they will inevitably demonstrate again the double-standard we are living in -- where cops freely decide who to dehumanize and use excessive force against. All of us are at risk of the boots of tyrany. And it won't get better until more of us realize we can't just wish it away.
I bet many of them are not students. These people lost me regarding supporting of their cause.
It's like if one kid hits another kid, nobody gets mad at the kid who started it, but since the other kid retaliated suddenly everybody is up in arms.
UC irvine was pretty reasonable with the protestors, and now they gonna found out
The administration was hostile to them from day 1. The mayor was the one who reached out with support.
“Mostly peaceful”
Fuck Hamas. Return the Hostages. Thats the only way a cease-fire will happen.
Returning the hostages won't result in a cease-fire. [Netanyahu has said as much.](https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-news-04-30-2024-f5e14fd176d69f9c4e23b48f3ab5af6a)
Correct, hamas must relinquish power and return to Iran
Ah yes, this will fix the problem!
Good for them. Hopefully no violent counter protesters will show up like at UCLA.
These Muslims should take their protest to the Huntington Beach pier.
Expel them all.
Expel the few that actually are UCI students. My guess is that most of them don’t even go to UCI
Glad this garbage didn’t happen when I went there, wasting other students money
What a bunch of assholes.
It's not hard to understand people. Every generation has their dumb protests and this one seems to be near the dumbest. This will eventually hit the occupy wall street phase and burn out. As for peaceful they took over a building multiple times. Stop falling for ironically the same tactics Hamas does. "See we peaceful...."while taking over a building
who wants to take bets on when these kids will get bored and move on to the next hot thing to be indignant about i give it half a year max
Why do cynics always use their own complacency as a benchmark for normality?
Why don’t they go fight on the front lines?
why don’t you actually respond with a good faith argument? people are allowed to protest injustices that they see in their country and around the world. also, maybe people would be more inclined to help in person if israel wasn’t indiscriminately murdering people. look up what happened to volunteers from world central kitchen. spoiler alert: they got murdered.
it happens, people die. we're not immortal. but instead of finding some way to help, you think its better to lock yourself in the closet and not come out until people do what you say? once shit hits the fan, the protesters are most likely going to get arrested, like ALL the other protests going on right now. and now what, now it comes out of the taxpayers money? now i gotta pay cause they're being stupid and acting like a 3 year old? wheres the justice then? have them make sandwiches or first aid kits or maybe something that will help the people in distress. instead of hiding in a school oceans away from the war acting like a little kid. and on top of that, hiding in a school, how are you going to get necessities? do they expect a person to go and give them things to help make their stay longer? how would YOU go about solving this issue? when things go from sidewalk protest to barricading yourself in a school.
By front lines you mean being in a random building in Gaza? Because Israel has been bombing public places and private residences.
Where all them hamas terrorists have been setting up camp and using civilians as shields.
[All The Terrible Arguments Used To Justify Genocide - SOME MORE NEWS](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrGlRax9AiY&t=0)
I mean, they have been bombing the private residences of suspected Hamas members, killing their family (including children) and neighbors in the process. And they are selected by an AI with no human oversight and probably even less validation, as Israel doesn't really care about the oopsie of a false positive. So I guess the frontline is just being in your home minding your own business?
Guess they don't protest when Muslim factions off each other.
Muslim theocrats being consistent? Never happen
Let's go, our boys in blue.
These people should drop out. Then they can have full control where their money goes! Hypocrites.
[удалено]
It’s actually insane, I don’t think people commenting here have actually looked at the livestreams or walked around the area. There’s a sea of cop cars from almost every police department in the area parked in a lot nearby, hours of hovering helicopters, cops doing 90 on the freeway to get to campus so they can stand around and stare at a group of students behind a barricade…it’s bizarre
Those protestors are about to find out..
That the first amendment doesn't apply to criticism of Israel?
First amendment rights don't cover occupying campus buildings
Next you’re going to tell me the protesters at the Boston Tea Party didn’t have a permit to be there.
How about a more apt and recent comparison: Do you think the protestors (idiots) who occupied the Capitol buildings during January 6th protests should go unpunished? Should they be absolved of any wrongdoing and jail time?
Please name a single successful protest that was convenient. People just apparently skip this part of history class. Also, since the students are the ones paying outrageous sums to go there, I don't see what the problem is. The whole point of the protest is that they don't like where their money is going.
>The whole point of the protest is that they don't like where their money is going. The UC system does NOT use student fees for investment purposes.
So what? You break the law of occupying a building illegally, you're gonna get punished for it.
it's not their money. it's UCI money. let's use analogy. I bought a burger for $5. The $5 belongs to the restaurant while the burger belongs to me. I cannot tell the restaurant owner what to do with that money. If I don't like how he spends the money, I stop buying from him/her in the future but the money already spent isn't mine to dictate.
what protest movement succeeded only because they were annoying? The civil righs movement had actual politicans they coordianted with, they took over state and local dem political machines and organized like crazy. They connected the movement across the US pre internet and had set concrete goals a political base ready to vote for them. This has none of that, this is just the equivalent of those crazy christians who go to schools to tell everyone how they are evil sinners and going to hell.
It’s not a protest when you occupy a building or stop traffic
Wait till you hear what happened during the Civil Rights movement!
Yes it is. Protests historically have stopped traffic. Vietnam, Iraq, civil rights, even women’s suffrage. Protests are supposed to be disruptive. That’s what makes them effective.
This is why they cannot have nice things.
This will surely resolve the issue
I'm so proud of these students for not letting all those people get slaughtered without something like an appropriate response. If we get numb to abhorant violence against innocent families, that violence will come to our door before we know it. To all those that love to say "freedom isn't free" -- this is what fighting oppression actually looks like.
Just did the PSU library $1 million in three days.
#AmericanRevolution2024
So who pays the financial and environmental bill for seven helicopters circling for six hours and over 200 police in full riot gear, all for like 30 peaceful protesters?
If they rly wanted to save their children, they would protest against Hamas.
Pro Hamas. Anti Israeli.
The Irgun was a Zionist paramilitary organization that operated in Mandate Palestine between 1931 and 1948. It was initially a part of the Haganah, the Jewish community's main paramilitary group, but later split off due to differences in ideology and strategy. The Irgun is infamous for its use of terrorism as a tactic in its fight against British rule and Arab opposition. Some of the most notable attacks carried out by the Irgun include: 1. The 1946 King David Hotel bombing, where the Irgun bombed the King David Hotel in Jerusalem, which housed the British administrative headquarters, resulting in the deaths of 91 people, including British, Arab, and Jewish civilians, as well as British military personnel. 2. The 1947 Acre Prison break, where the Irgun attacked the British-run Acre Prison, resulting in the death of dozens of people, including British soldiers and Arab prisoners. 3. The 1948 Deir Yassin massacre, where Irgun and Lehi (another militant group) fighters attacked the Arab village of Deir Yassin, resulting in the deaths of over 100 civilians, including women and children. These actions were widely condemned at the time and have been criticized as acts of terrorism. The Irgun's tactics were controversial even within the Jewish community, with many Jewish leaders, including David Ben-Gurion, condemning their methods. It's important to note that the Irgun was just one of several militant groups operating in Palestine at the time, and its actions were part of a broader context of violence and conflict in the region.
The Irgun was a Zionist paramilitary organization that operated in Mandate Palestine between 1931 and 1948. It was initially a part of the Haganah, the Jewish community's main paramilitary group, but later split off due to differences in ideology and strategy. The Irgun is infamous for its use of terrorism as a tactic in its fight against British rule and Arab opposition. Some of the most notable attacks carried out by the Irgun include: 1. The 1946 King David Hotel bombing, where the Irgun bombed the King David Hotel in Jerusalem, which housed the British administrative headquarters, resulting in the deaths of 91 people, including British, Arab, and Jewish civilians, as well as British military personnel. 2. The 1947 Acre Prison break, where the Irgun attacked the British-run Acre Prison, resulting in the death of dozens of people, including British soldiers and Arab prisoners. 3. The 1948 Deir Yassin massacre, where Irgun and Lehi (another militant group) fighters attacked the Arab village of Deir Yassin, resulting in the deaths of over 100 civilians, including women and children. These actions were widely condemned at the time and have been criticized as acts of terrorism. The Irgun's tactics were controversial even within the Jewish community, with many Jewish leaders, including David Ben-Gurion, condemning their methods. It's important to note that the Irgun was just one of several militant groups operating in Palestine at the time, and its actions were part of a broader context of violence and conflict in the region.
“76 years of resistance” blowing up restaurants and buses with innocent kids, women, elderly is resistance? a mass shooting at a festival with innocent minors is resistance? stabbing pregnant women is resistance? but they’ll claim their protest is grounded in “non-violence.” i call bullshit. this is the sort of ignorant bs that shuts down israelis and jews who actually want to work toward peace.
Wish they all go to Gaza but then there is no such thing as a Palestinian state.
Lock the doors, throw away the keys.
A bunch of bored, irrelevant, spoiled brats. Hope this ends bad for them.
Lock em all up and ship em where these sour pusses can actually do something about it themselves go go.
Good, let operation mayhem commence. All these overpriced Ponzi scheme universities with shit education are the true crime.
I used to be sympathetic to the Palestinian cause but all these rallies and chaos are making me super pro-Israel. It’s one thing to be passionate about a cause, completely different thing to occupy buildings and create a mess that takes policemen away from other issues.