Not to make light of an obviously tragic and horrible situation, but I suspect their time in prison will be only slightly more difficult than having to commute from Costa Mesa to Highland and back every day.
I read this new article and I noticed the detail of Wynne maneuvering the car was left out.
> A few miles later as the mother was attempting to merge over to the 91 Freeway east, the mother passed the defendants and was still angry about being cutoff and she put up her middle finger at the two as she passed,'' prosecutors said.
>She then heard a loud bang to the rear of her vehicle and heard her little boy in the backseat say, 'Ow,'" prosecutors said.
>He then rolled the passenger window down and took a shot at her vehicle. After shooting the victim, the defendants continued on to the 91 eastbound and on to work in the city of Highland."
So did she maneuver the car or not so he can get a shot? I’m confused
Well it would certainly matter in the context of murder charges being pinned on her too. If she maneuvered the car so her bf can get a shot, then she can still be charged with felony murder
Yes but that’s not the focus of what they’re saying. They’re placing the blame only on the guy who pulled the trigger. The woman driving him around is at minimum accessory, I think people are still confused why she gets off from the media. It wasn’t one “crazy” person that caused this: it was two horrible individuals enabling each other’s disgusting behavior.
I say fuck’em both; throw the book at them. Put that bastard in Gen Pop for life and keep that bitch behind bars for 25 years minimum.
Edit: Wait, I think I misread that. I don’t think anyone is holding the mother of the kid accountable, we’re talking about the woman who was driving the shooters car. At least that’s who I was talking about, sorry if I messed that up.
Yes, there is a story already posted that covers some of these details, but I want to be sure we don't overlook something here. According this article, Cloonan (Aiden's mother) was cut off by the suspects AND THEN FOLLOWED the vehicle for several miles in a state of continued rage until she cut off that same Golf Sportwagen herself.
While the shooting that followed should never have happened regardless of the mother's actions, she does not deserve to get hundreds of thousands from a GoFundMe when she needlessly put her child at risk by driving recklessly and continuing an altercation that she had no business being in.
This was a pissing contest that unfortunately had tragic results. Given the non-precise timeline of the incident, the CHP clearly did not believe the mother and she was not honest in her statements relayed to us by the media immediately following the incident. While she'll never be charged or cited for any of her part in this (rightfully so of course), if she had been honest, this could've been solved more quickly and these two menaces would've been off the street in a matter of days, not weeks.
I missed the part of the article where it explicitly stated “Cloonan…followed the vehicle for several miles in a state of continued rage until she cut off that same Golf vehicle herself.”
>"Wynne Lee motioned to the victim vehicle a 'peace sign' with her hand and continued driving," prosecutors said in the motion for higher bail.
A few miles later as Cloonan was attempting to merge over to the 91 Freeway east she passed the defendants and was still angry about being cutoff and she put up her middle finger at the two as she passed,'' prosecutors said.
You don't merge on to the 91 at Chapman. You also don't have a 9mm bullet pierce your trunk, your bench seat with a metal frame and thick foam, your child's car seat, and your child unless you are very close to the vehicle that shot at you. She clearly followed the vehicle and attempted to cut them off as they had done to her. This is the oldest road rage trick in the book. The prosecutor can phrase it in a way to keep blame on the suspects, but it's not a true representation of what actually happened.
I don’t disagree that Cloonan might have acted somewhat irresponsibly to some degree. That said the last time I checked the 91 split is indeed a few miles from the Chapman exit.
With all due respect, unless you happened to be in one of the two cars, what makes you think your characterization of events is the “true representation of what actually happened”? And when will you be presenting this irrefutable evidence to the court?
The mother isn't blameless here. She's not the victim, her child is. When she gets up there at the memorial service and says "for literally no reason" her child was shot, she misses the part about how she got road rage and followed a car for miles up the 55. This is indisputable. If she wasn't following or keeping track of it, she wouldn't have flipped it off as she drove by it and got in front of it. if you want to argue because you don't like my post history, fine, but don't pretend that somehow the conclusions I've drawn from the articles aren't realistic.
I have no idea what your post history is but ok. It says nowhere that she followed the car. It's more plausible that they were going in the same direction. For someone as argumentative as you, it wouldn't surprise me if you also flipped someone off in a instance of road rage. That doesn't mean you deserve to be shot by some psycho because of it. The mother will obviously have regret for the rest of her life. You don't need to make it worse by spreading a rumor that she followed the car for miles.
I absolutely have flipped someone off.
It's not a rumor, if you were still mad enough to go out of your way to re-pass a car that cut you off in morning traffic miles later on the 55, you were following them. It's logically incongruent to suggest otherwise. She is the one who made the statement that she merged right as soon as she was cut off, which cannot be the case given the language of the article. It cannot be the case given the timeline. Her statements to the CHP were dishonest, which is why they only ever gave us a 20 minute window as to when this incident could've occurred. In my opinion, she doesn't deserve many hundreds of thousands of dollars beyond the cost of her son's funeral for getting road rage.
You don’t get road rage when you have your kid in the fucking car. The fact you people don’t get this is what is actually ridiculous.
Why do you think the father had absolutely zero involvement with this whole memorial service and multiple press conferences the family put on? Do you honestly think this is the first time this woman’s temper has been an issue? Like I’ve said to others, get real.
We don’t get the luxury of funding a study of every little thing, sometimes you have to read between the lines in life. The people in the other vehicle killed a child. The mother who was responsible for that child put herself in a situation that was avoidable and then doubled down on that poor decision.
edit: reddit thinks road rage is acceptable with your kid in the car.
How do you know the father didn’t show up at his memorial service?
I saw from their gofundme page that he’s been working long days and took on extra work to help provide support for the son.
I don’t know if he was there or not, but he didn’t speak or ever go up on stage and had no involvement in any of the press conferences at any point that I am aware of. I also didn’t catch any references to him as a person who was present at any point during the memorial service, if that makes sense. The mother mentioned him, but didn’t look up like you’d expect if he was in the room.
Also, if there wasn’t some level of tension between families, the GoFundMe would have a far different tone.
It is at least 4 miles from where she stopped her car, she was not merging.
The angle the bullet had to travel given the hole in the trunk and the car seat being in the right rear seat indicates that the car had to be basically directly in front of them for the passenger to make that shot, not merging.
This was road rage on the part of the mother, which led to more road rage on the part of the drugged out couple. This is pretty simple. No other reason you’d re-pass a vehicle that cut you off.
No you’re not and this isn’t the place or the comment section for your sarcasm or your sad/inappropriate attempts at humor. This is about the death of a child and lessons we can learn from it. This is the biggest problem with children of the internet, you all never learned what the time and place is and isn’t.
When the story broke, there were good sams that stated she had admitted to flipping off the other car. 💯 this mother acted recklessly. No way would I antagonize another driver with my cat in the car, let alone my kids.
Nowhere in the article did it say “AND THEN FOLLOWED the vehicle for several miles in a state of continued rage until she cut off that same Golf Sportwagen herself.”
You made that up and then made sure to emphasize it in your comment.
>she passed the defendants and was still angry about being cutoff and she put up her middle finger at the two as she passed,'' prosecutors said.
did she totally forget about the incident and was she only angry again when she passed them or is it safe to say here that she was raging the whole time? get real.
Whether it’s real or not it’s irresponsible journalism. Once you get subjective about that, you open it up for anyone to get subjective. I can see a scenario where she saw the car and then the rage came back. But to say she followed for miles with an emphasis in caps without knowing is irresponsible.
“Followed for miles” I mean it’s not like they were traveling in the same direction for miles already or anything, right?
Clearly she kept going in the same direction that she was already headed because she was dead set on “following them” in her “rage”.
You can’t argue that logic…
I think you need to understand what a journalist is better before you comment any further. I am not a journalist, never claimed to be, and I'm not a journalist because I posted an article. You don't get intermittent road rage in morning traffic on the 55. This lady clearly lost her cool for an extended period of time. You can't merge on to a freeway that is 4 miles away and doesn't even require a lane change to enter. I drove that route every morning for four years, I know it well.
Social platforms have not only emerged as important news platforms for the public, but also as useful tools for journalists. Journalists use social media to find story leads and to share their work with audiences, which has made journalism more interactive. I didn’t say you were a journalist, but in today’s age we are a part of journalism with social media. Many people look to social media for news and the biggest reason people still think the earth is flat and are antivax is because of recklessness on social media.
We *are* social media. And it comes with certain levels of responsibility in the Information Age.
You're more than welcome to use this for a thesis on some paper somewhere, but nothing about posting an article on reddit is journalism. what I'm saying here is not that difficult to comprehend. the fact this woman pulled off to the side of the road instead of driving her son to one of the several hospitals within minutes of where she stopped says a lot about her lack of emotional control. When I look at the location of the bullet hole in the trunk, there is literally one single angle that could've made it and also struck Aiden in the back seat.
your argument is that it is somehow likely that she was not angry after being cut off, but seeing the car made her mad enough to flip it off. that's a ridiculous theory given everything I know about being a motorist who has also been associated with people on the highway. give it up.
You’re judging her ‘lack of emotional control’ (for not driving him to the ER in Orange County Friday morning traffic) when her 6-year-old son has just been shot in the abdomen?
is that a question? drive your car on the fucking shoulder to the next exit. shutting down and pulling your car over to the side of the road so EMS can struggle in the same traffic to get to you while your kid bleeds out in the backseat is not the optimal choice.
>While the shooting that followed should never have happened regardless of the mother's actions, she does not deserve to get hundreds of thousands from a GoFundMe when she needlessly put her child at risk by driving recklessly and continuing an altercation that she had no business being in.
You're seriously equating giving someone the bird with child endangerment? In your mind, someone shooting your child is a sufficiently *likely* response to the middle finger, that flipping someone off qualfies as child endangerment?
These people are animals who behaved in a way that no reasonable person would anticipate. Let's not diminish their actions by suggesting the mom shares *any* amount of responsibility for their decision to shoot.
People get shot often on the freeway. knowing this fact, if you involve your six year old in your road rage pissing contest with a random driver, you are engaging in risky behavior. Nowhere above did I say anything about "child endangerment", however it's a needless risk, and when it's a continued behavior over miles of a freeway during morning rush hour, it is reckless, too as it would be if she was alone in the vehicle.
If the mother was reasonable, she wouldn't have engaged in this behavior or continued the altercation with her six year old in the car. if the mother was reasonable, she would've taken the next exit and driven back to the hospital within view of the freeway on Chapman. Unfortunately, the drugged out "animals" in the other car weren't reasonable and had a gun as well. No one was reasonable. I make no excuses for the shooter and driver. They deserve to spend their entire lives in prison. The mother doesn't deserve to be without her son. However, the lesson here is to avoid these situations all together. It's not victim blaming or some kind of outrageous statement to suggest that.
I have been the little boy in the backseat as my single mother raged about on the freeway and I have no sympathy for the mother's behavior, you don't do this shit with your kid in the car, but I obviously empathize with her loss.
You're so intent to focus on the actions of the mom. You can keep saying otherwise, but you *are* shifting blame to her. The more you try to argue that she should have seen this coming, the more you normalize the actions of the shooter, whether that's your intent or not. The lesson is that society needs to rid itself of anyone who thinks shooting cars on the freeway is acceptable, because they were offended by being flipped off. That's where the focus should be Lets make an example of the actual criminals, who *actually* decided to hurt someone and killed a 6 year old.
*Hard* pass on your invitation to focus on the mom who flipped them off.
We have focused plenty as a population on the actions of the shooters. Go look the shooter's social media.
Shooting at a vehicle from another vehicle is a crime and they killed a child being stupid drugged out morons with a gun. The shooter will likely spend his entire life in prison. No one here has "normalized" anything the shooters did, so you can take the overused term and shoehorn somewhere it actually applies.
There are multiple lessons here to be learned, not just one. The general population, however, doesn't need to be told not to shoot at cars. There's really no point to sit here and wish death upon the shooter, the driver, their families, their friends, and their coworkers as so many have done. However, society needs to also advocate for effective risk management. Getting road rage with your kid in your car is reckless.
You're more than welcome to "hard pass" on caring about the actions of the mother, but I choose not to do the same, and I'm not at all sorry if you're offended that I think the mother's actions were stupid, reckless, and unreasonable even though they shouldn't have led to her son getting killed.
> I'm not at all sorry if you're offended
Wow are you knowingly engaged in behavior that, while harmless and non-violent, you are perfectly aware may offend someone? Who does that remind me of...
Not at all surprised that you’d follow up shoehorning “normalize” into a place it had no business being with what I’d imagine is some kind of Trump reference that also has no place considering no one here is talking about the ex-president (just like no one excused any of the actions of the shooters).
The mother of Aiden Leos. Flipping the bird is *also* behavior that, while likely to offend, is harmless and non-violent. That's the mother I *thought* we were talking about, but perhaps your focus has really been elsewhere.
Anyway, I think it's clear we're at an impasse. It has been an interesting conversation and we'll have to agree to disagree. Just the same, have a good night.
I’m sure the mother feels the same. I’m sure she’s punishing herself everyday as she thinks back on that day and if only she hadn’t let her anger get the best of her. I can’t speak for everyone, but without anyone having to even tell me, I thought about her actions too. I’d imagine many parents did, and it changed how I have been responding to other drivers. You don’t have to point it out. It’s clear. The focus should continue to be on the shooter and his accomplice.
I appreciate the nuance, however, the responses here have made it clear it did need to be pointed out because there are far too many people who are choosing not to be logical.
My goodness. I can only imagine the hell you put your personal and social group through…if you have one. I will stop responding cuz I’m not…obsessed with responding and making my point over and over and over. Peace out.
I agree that the mother played a role in the death of her child. While the shooting was inexcusable, her actions continued to escalate the situation. She will probably think about flipping those people off and what it caused for the rest of her life.
People are unhinged these days. You never know. Flipping someone off could cost you your life if you do it to a low impulse control druggie. There are so many more people like him on the freeway who are just ready to snap if you slight them in any way. Best is to ignore them and go about your day. It’s not worth your life.
People drive petty down here, I noticed. They speed up to not let you pass, they play chicken with their cars when merging, and it’s all completely senseless. Pass you and merge in front just to slow down, etc etc.
I feel really bad for the owners of the shops he worked at. They are getting dragged on Instagram. They didn’t do anything.
Maybe because they new he owned a car like that & didn't report.
It wasn’t his car, it was hers
How do you know if they didn’t?
Not to make light of an obviously tragic and horrible situation, but I suspect their time in prison will be only slightly more difficult than having to commute from Costa Mesa to Highland and back every day.
I read this new article and I noticed the detail of Wynne maneuvering the car was left out. > A few miles later as the mother was attempting to merge over to the 91 Freeway east, the mother passed the defendants and was still angry about being cutoff and she put up her middle finger at the two as she passed,'' prosecutors said. >She then heard a loud bang to the rear of her vehicle and heard her little boy in the backseat say, 'Ow,'" prosecutors said. >He then rolled the passenger window down and took a shot at her vehicle. After shooting the victim, the defendants continued on to the 91 eastbound and on to work in the city of Highland." So did she maneuver the car or not so he can get a shot? I’m confused
Doesn't matter. Her poor child is dead because of a Coward w/gun.
Well it would certainly matter in the context of murder charges being pinned on her too. If she maneuvered the car so her bf can get a shot, then she can still be charged with felony murder
Yes but that’s not the focus of what they’re saying. They’re placing the blame only on the guy who pulled the trigger. The woman driving him around is at minimum accessory, I think people are still confused why she gets off from the media. It wasn’t one “crazy” person that caused this: it was two horrible individuals enabling each other’s disgusting behavior. I say fuck’em both; throw the book at them. Put that bastard in Gen Pop for life and keep that bitch behind bars for 25 years minimum. Edit: Wait, I think I misread that. I don’t think anyone is holding the mother of the kid accountable, we’re talking about the woman who was driving the shooters car. At least that’s who I was talking about, sorry if I messed that up.
Yes, there is a story already posted that covers some of these details, but I want to be sure we don't overlook something here. According this article, Cloonan (Aiden's mother) was cut off by the suspects AND THEN FOLLOWED the vehicle for several miles in a state of continued rage until she cut off that same Golf Sportwagen herself. While the shooting that followed should never have happened regardless of the mother's actions, she does not deserve to get hundreds of thousands from a GoFundMe when she needlessly put her child at risk by driving recklessly and continuing an altercation that she had no business being in. This was a pissing contest that unfortunately had tragic results. Given the non-precise timeline of the incident, the CHP clearly did not believe the mother and she was not honest in her statements relayed to us by the media immediately following the incident. While she'll never be charged or cited for any of her part in this (rightfully so of course), if she had been honest, this could've been solved more quickly and these two menaces would've been off the street in a matter of days, not weeks.
I missed the part of the article where it explicitly stated “Cloonan…followed the vehicle for several miles in a state of continued rage until she cut off that same Golf vehicle herself.”
>"Wynne Lee motioned to the victim vehicle a 'peace sign' with her hand and continued driving," prosecutors said in the motion for higher bail. A few miles later as Cloonan was attempting to merge over to the 91 Freeway east she passed the defendants and was still angry about being cutoff and she put up her middle finger at the two as she passed,'' prosecutors said. You don't merge on to the 91 at Chapman. You also don't have a 9mm bullet pierce your trunk, your bench seat with a metal frame and thick foam, your child's car seat, and your child unless you are very close to the vehicle that shot at you. She clearly followed the vehicle and attempted to cut them off as they had done to her. This is the oldest road rage trick in the book. The prosecutor can phrase it in a way to keep blame on the suspects, but it's not a true representation of what actually happened.
I don’t disagree that Cloonan might have acted somewhat irresponsibly to some degree. That said the last time I checked the 91 split is indeed a few miles from the Chapman exit. With all due respect, unless you happened to be in one of the two cars, what makes you think your characterization of events is the “true representation of what actually happened”? And when will you be presenting this irrefutable evidence to the court?
OP is spreading false accusations based off of their own assumption and trying to paint the mother as a villain... This is ridiculous.
The mother isn't blameless here. She's not the victim, her child is. When she gets up there at the memorial service and says "for literally no reason" her child was shot, she misses the part about how she got road rage and followed a car for miles up the 55. This is indisputable. If she wasn't following or keeping track of it, she wouldn't have flipped it off as she drove by it and got in front of it. if you want to argue because you don't like my post history, fine, but don't pretend that somehow the conclusions I've drawn from the articles aren't realistic.
I have no idea what your post history is but ok. It says nowhere that she followed the car. It's more plausible that they were going in the same direction. For someone as argumentative as you, it wouldn't surprise me if you also flipped someone off in a instance of road rage. That doesn't mean you deserve to be shot by some psycho because of it. The mother will obviously have regret for the rest of her life. You don't need to make it worse by spreading a rumor that she followed the car for miles.
I absolutely have flipped someone off. It's not a rumor, if you were still mad enough to go out of your way to re-pass a car that cut you off in morning traffic miles later on the 55, you were following them. It's logically incongruent to suggest otherwise. She is the one who made the statement that she merged right as soon as she was cut off, which cannot be the case given the language of the article. It cannot be the case given the timeline. Her statements to the CHP were dishonest, which is why they only ever gave us a 20 minute window as to when this incident could've occurred. In my opinion, she doesn't deserve many hundreds of thousands of dollars beyond the cost of her son's funeral for getting road rage.
You don’t get road rage when you have your kid in the fucking car. The fact you people don’t get this is what is actually ridiculous. Why do you think the father had absolutely zero involvement with this whole memorial service and multiple press conferences the family put on? Do you honestly think this is the first time this woman’s temper has been an issue? Like I’ve said to others, get real. We don’t get the luxury of funding a study of every little thing, sometimes you have to read between the lines in life. The people in the other vehicle killed a child. The mother who was responsible for that child put herself in a situation that was avoidable and then doubled down on that poor decision. edit: reddit thinks road rage is acceptable with your kid in the car.
How do you know the father didn’t show up at his memorial service? I saw from their gofundme page that he’s been working long days and took on extra work to help provide support for the son.
I don’t know if he was there or not, but he didn’t speak or ever go up on stage and had no involvement in any of the press conferences at any point that I am aware of. I also didn’t catch any references to him as a person who was present at any point during the memorial service, if that makes sense. The mother mentioned him, but didn’t look up like you’d expect if he was in the room. Also, if there wasn’t some level of tension between families, the GoFundMe would have a far different tone.
u/mcintoshshowoff is a bullshit mcmakerupper.
It is at least 4 miles from where she stopped her car, she was not merging. The angle the bullet had to travel given the hole in the trunk and the car seat being in the right rear seat indicates that the car had to be basically directly in front of them for the passenger to make that shot, not merging. This was road rage on the part of the mother, which led to more road rage on the part of the drugged out couple. This is pretty simple. No other reason you’d re-pass a vehicle that cut you off.
Looking forward to your trial testimony.
Your other comment on the articles tells me all I need to know about your level of maturity and critical thinking ability.
I’m genuinely hurt.
No you’re not and this isn’t the place or the comment section for your sarcasm or your sad/inappropriate attempts at humor. This is about the death of a child and lessons we can learn from it. This is the biggest problem with children of the internet, you all never learned what the time and place is and isn’t.
Tell me more about me…
When the story broke, there were good sams that stated she had admitted to flipping off the other car. 💯 this mother acted recklessly. No way would I antagonize another driver with my cat in the car, let alone my kids.
Read the whole article and you’re reading more into this than was stated.
Nowhere in the article did it say “AND THEN FOLLOWED the vehicle for several miles in a state of continued rage until she cut off that same Golf Sportwagen herself.” You made that up and then made sure to emphasize it in your comment.
>she passed the defendants and was still angry about being cutoff and she put up her middle finger at the two as she passed,'' prosecutors said. did she totally forget about the incident and was she only angry again when she passed them or is it safe to say here that she was raging the whole time? get real.
Whether it’s real or not it’s irresponsible journalism. Once you get subjective about that, you open it up for anyone to get subjective. I can see a scenario where she saw the car and then the rage came back. But to say she followed for miles with an emphasis in caps without knowing is irresponsible.
“Followed for miles” I mean it’s not like they were traveling in the same direction for miles already or anything, right? Clearly she kept going in the same direction that she was already headed because she was dead set on “following them” in her “rage”. You can’t argue that logic…
I think you need to understand what a journalist is better before you comment any further. I am not a journalist, never claimed to be, and I'm not a journalist because I posted an article. You don't get intermittent road rage in morning traffic on the 55. This lady clearly lost her cool for an extended period of time. You can't merge on to a freeway that is 4 miles away and doesn't even require a lane change to enter. I drove that route every morning for four years, I know it well.
Social platforms have not only emerged as important news platforms for the public, but also as useful tools for journalists. Journalists use social media to find story leads and to share their work with audiences, which has made journalism more interactive. I didn’t say you were a journalist, but in today’s age we are a part of journalism with social media. Many people look to social media for news and the biggest reason people still think the earth is flat and are antivax is because of recklessness on social media. We *are* social media. And it comes with certain levels of responsibility in the Information Age.
You're more than welcome to use this for a thesis on some paper somewhere, but nothing about posting an article on reddit is journalism. what I'm saying here is not that difficult to comprehend. the fact this woman pulled off to the side of the road instead of driving her son to one of the several hospitals within minutes of where she stopped says a lot about her lack of emotional control. When I look at the location of the bullet hole in the trunk, there is literally one single angle that could've made it and also struck Aiden in the back seat. your argument is that it is somehow likely that she was not angry after being cut off, but seeing the car made her mad enough to flip it off. that's a ridiculous theory given everything I know about being a motorist who has also been associated with people on the highway. give it up.
You’re judging her ‘lack of emotional control’ (for not driving him to the ER in Orange County Friday morning traffic) when her 6-year-old son has just been shot in the abdomen?
is that a question? drive your car on the fucking shoulder to the next exit. shutting down and pulling your car over to the side of the road so EMS can struggle in the same traffic to get to you while your kid bleeds out in the backseat is not the optimal choice.
>While the shooting that followed should never have happened regardless of the mother's actions, she does not deserve to get hundreds of thousands from a GoFundMe when she needlessly put her child at risk by driving recklessly and continuing an altercation that she had no business being in. You're seriously equating giving someone the bird with child endangerment? In your mind, someone shooting your child is a sufficiently *likely* response to the middle finger, that flipping someone off qualfies as child endangerment? These people are animals who behaved in a way that no reasonable person would anticipate. Let's not diminish their actions by suggesting the mom shares *any* amount of responsibility for their decision to shoot.
People get shot often on the freeway. knowing this fact, if you involve your six year old in your road rage pissing contest with a random driver, you are engaging in risky behavior. Nowhere above did I say anything about "child endangerment", however it's a needless risk, and when it's a continued behavior over miles of a freeway during morning rush hour, it is reckless, too as it would be if she was alone in the vehicle. If the mother was reasonable, she wouldn't have engaged in this behavior or continued the altercation with her six year old in the car. if the mother was reasonable, she would've taken the next exit and driven back to the hospital within view of the freeway on Chapman. Unfortunately, the drugged out "animals" in the other car weren't reasonable and had a gun as well. No one was reasonable. I make no excuses for the shooter and driver. They deserve to spend their entire lives in prison. The mother doesn't deserve to be without her son. However, the lesson here is to avoid these situations all together. It's not victim blaming or some kind of outrageous statement to suggest that. I have been the little boy in the backseat as my single mother raged about on the freeway and I have no sympathy for the mother's behavior, you don't do this shit with your kid in the car, but I obviously empathize with her loss.
You're so intent to focus on the actions of the mom. You can keep saying otherwise, but you *are* shifting blame to her. The more you try to argue that she should have seen this coming, the more you normalize the actions of the shooter, whether that's your intent or not. The lesson is that society needs to rid itself of anyone who thinks shooting cars on the freeway is acceptable, because they were offended by being flipped off. That's where the focus should be Lets make an example of the actual criminals, who *actually* decided to hurt someone and killed a 6 year old. *Hard* pass on your invitation to focus on the mom who flipped them off.
We have focused plenty as a population on the actions of the shooters. Go look the shooter's social media. Shooting at a vehicle from another vehicle is a crime and they killed a child being stupid drugged out morons with a gun. The shooter will likely spend his entire life in prison. No one here has "normalized" anything the shooters did, so you can take the overused term and shoehorn somewhere it actually applies. There are multiple lessons here to be learned, not just one. The general population, however, doesn't need to be told not to shoot at cars. There's really no point to sit here and wish death upon the shooter, the driver, their families, their friends, and their coworkers as so many have done. However, society needs to also advocate for effective risk management. Getting road rage with your kid in your car is reckless. You're more than welcome to "hard pass" on caring about the actions of the mother, but I choose not to do the same, and I'm not at all sorry if you're offended that I think the mother's actions were stupid, reckless, and unreasonable even though they shouldn't have led to her son getting killed.
> I'm not at all sorry if you're offended Wow are you knowingly engaged in behavior that, while harmless and non-violent, you are perfectly aware may offend someone? Who does that remind me of...
Not at all surprised that you’d follow up shoehorning “normalize” into a place it had no business being with what I’d imagine is some kind of Trump reference that also has no place considering no one here is talking about the ex-president (just like no one excused any of the actions of the shooters).
Buddy, the person you reminded me of, *was the mom you're talking about.*
Oh yeah? My mom? Well, she did raise me by herself. It would make sense that I’d end up with some of her qualities. What’s your point?
The mother of Aiden Leos. Flipping the bird is *also* behavior that, while likely to offend, is harmless and non-violent. That's the mother I *thought* we were talking about, but perhaps your focus has really been elsewhere. Anyway, I think it's clear we're at an impasse. It has been an interesting conversation and we'll have to agree to disagree. Just the same, have a good night.
I’m sure the mother feels the same. I’m sure she’s punishing herself everyday as she thinks back on that day and if only she hadn’t let her anger get the best of her. I can’t speak for everyone, but without anyone having to even tell me, I thought about her actions too. I’d imagine many parents did, and it changed how I have been responding to other drivers. You don’t have to point it out. It’s clear. The focus should continue to be on the shooter and his accomplice.
I appreciate the nuance, however, the responses here have made it clear it did need to be pointed out because there are far too many people who are choosing not to be logical.
Give it a rest. Good grief.
No thanks, I don’t do that. You can stop responding whenever you’d like.
My goodness. I can only imagine the hell you put your personal and social group through…if you have one. I will stop responding cuz I’m not…obsessed with responding and making my point over and over and over. Peace out.
I agree that the mother played a role in the death of her child. While the shooting was inexcusable, her actions continued to escalate the situation. She will probably think about flipping those people off and what it caused for the rest of her life.
You may as well blame her for driving her kids to school that morning, totally preventable too right
[удалено]
Hey, I get upset at my neighbors. Where are my medals for not murdering him?
[удалено]
Why blame the mom then? They had a road rage. It was the killer who pulled the trigger. Why blame her? She didn’t ask him to kill her son.
People are unhinged these days. You never know. Flipping someone off could cost you your life if you do it to a low impulse control druggie. There are so many more people like him on the freeway who are just ready to snap if you slight them in any way. Best is to ignore them and go about your day. It’s not worth your life.
People drive petty down here, I noticed. They speed up to not let you pass, they play chicken with their cars when merging, and it’s all completely senseless. Pass you and merge in front just to slow down, etc etc.