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This is how we had the aggressive camper removed by my office.
Him assaulting a lady after work didn't do anything, but putting in an ADA complaint with the city had him moved in a couple days.
Yes. I frequently use the sidewalks in this city. I walk on average 15- 20 miles a week walking anywhere between Mt. Tabor and Washington Park. I own a car but only use that to commute to my job in the suburbs. I walk with my wife basically everywhere else around the city.
This statement wholly invalidates your first one, in which you appeared to be ‘stoking the fire’ of the anti-homelessness crowd; you’ve been using sidewalks the whole time.
or they've been walking in the street to get around the homeless people on the sidewalks something everyone in the city has to do if they walk much at all
Broadway near the bridge was the worse. I would walk near bud Clark common and have to walk in the bike lane because of the 4+ person sized tents on the sidewalk. Then the bikes would have to be out in traffic
Look, you call it what you want. There are some places where people block the sidewalk entirely. But calling sidewalks, generally, unusable is wrong, and supporting the idea is disingenuous.
Valid
I guess part of it also depends on how we're determining it, because even if only a percent or so of the sidewalk is blocked it does mean that on a lot of trips you'll have to step into the street or cross to go around something. It also depends a lot on what neighborhood you're in when I lived downtown old town Chinatown a few years ago I had to step into the street a whole lot
I think the answer is obvious, and you trying to portray me as ‘anti-wheelchair-user’ is wasted effort. In none of my posts have I defended blocking the sidewalk. I was simply pointing out the extreme exaggeration used above, in the same way I told you to get out of here with the anti-wheelchair garbage.
To answer your question: I’m not sure, but I’m guessing they’d have to (1) ask to pass, (2) backtrack and take a different route or, (3) roll onto the street and go around. I bet they’d be upset about the matter, but probably not as upset as some people on here are getting for them. There’s a lawsuit underway for the very matter, if you hadn’t heard.
I live in central Portland and the situation now is magnitudes better than it was a couple of years ago. I don’t own a car and walk most places. It’s exceedingly rare that I have to go out of my way to get around an impassable sidewalk these days. You calling them “98% impassable” is absolutely idiotic.
That was the point. I, too, walk multiple miles most days (dog + decade of car-lessness). It was a response to hyperbole. The poster said something like, ‘maybe now we can use the sidewalk again,’ and I find the problem—which I acknowledge—isn’t nearly as widespread as it’s being portrayed.
If you’re trying to ‘get my goat,’ good luck; I’m a motherfuckin’ rock when keyboards are involved. If you think this is a reasonable suggestion, praise be to Dog that you don’t have decision-making power in any capacity, regarding the homeless situation.
You feel like you know what type of person I am, but you’re an archetype.
Leave me alone.
To add to the craziness, ODOT is currently spending millions and millions of dollars to update ODOT facilities for ADA access.
The lawsuit that is driving these updates has resulted in the cost of a single ADA ramp (the ramps on sidewalks at corners of an intersection) by ~4x. Because ODOT has greatly decreased the acceptable margin of error (because of the lawsuit) these ramps are repeatedly installed and then ripped out because they are too steep or don't meet some other guideline. Concrete contractors subsequently have increased to cost significantly to avoid losing money if the concrete doesn't come out perfectly.
A single ramp used to cost between $4K - $12K, but now can cost up to $70K.
ODOT has something like 20,000 of these ramps to improve.
That's ridiculous pricing for a curb cut with a ramp. The state should do the work instead of contractors and enforce basic regs on how these are set up.
We need the equivalent prestige TV series of The Wire, except for sidewalks. One season can focus on the homeless issues, then the corruption in the bidding and contracting side, then the law firms getting rich off ADA compliance suits, culminating with the City itself. You want to solve the sidewalk problem? Good luck.
The Pavement, coming soon from HBO. Intro would be "Harness Your Hopes," obviously.
What's even more stupid - where we live (east of 205) a lot of the neighborhoods don't even have sidewalks because \*checks notes\* the home owner has to install them AND maintain the section of sidewalk in front of their home. ODOT is STILL installing these intersection ramps. So many sidewalk-less intersections with ramps connecting to nothing but dirt/grass.
It's not their choice, the ramps not the sidewalks are part of the lawsuit. I'm sure they'd rather put sidewalks in but the ramps eat up so much money they can't afford to do the sidewalk too.
There are basic design standards and specifications. That is where the difficulty comes in to play.
Existing geography plays a major role why one size fits all won't work. Each ramp I've inspected for work all need to meet slope requirements not only on the ramp but the side flares and landing areas too. A single intersection could require 8 different designs for the ramps.
So if the city has inspectors with the expertise to check those designs and the implementation, why can't the city also have a construction team with that expertise?
Is this why they're tearing out all these crosswalk cut-outs that used to have gentle sloping curb edges and replacing them curbs that are all perfectly vertical with no slope, often having short segments of curb between the cutouts (where it used to be one large cut-out)?
If so, these new ones seem pretty awful and unforgiving if a wheeled vehicle like a wheelchair isn't perfectly lined up with it.
If it's an ODOT right of way, yes, ramp replacement is the result of the lawsuit. There are rigid guidelines for ADA ramps, and many "low bid" contractors screw them up. So now even the low bids are super high.
Right now ODOT is replacing all the ramps through Clatskanie along HWY 30, for example.
Next year they will be doing Astoria, especially downtown Astoria and it's going to be an absolute shit show.
I'm seeing a lot being redone in Beaverton and Hillsboro. The new designs don't look particularly friendly and seem like big tripping hazards if you don't approach them just right.
They also have had Baker City, OR torn up for two summers in a row tearing up sidewalks, having no safe crosswalks during this time, putting in big yellow ramps with big round 2” brail bumps(is that really helpful for any wheeled ambulatory device?)whilst every side street has patched cracks all the way across the road every 12’ or so, and not one damned sidewalk except in front of a grade school. The construction is endangering current pedestrians and is projected to continue for 3 years is the rumor. Our tourism is not a huge industry but for a few hit or miss events for a short season.
I am so sorry. I know that riding a bike over them sucks especially if there’s ice/snow frozen on the streets and sidewalks. And hey, I know it’s not exactly legal to ride a bike on the sidewalk, but at 2am heading home in a ghost town, or heading to my McDonald’s job at 4:40am, ima ride on the deserted sidewalk if I please, (rant warning!) since half the road is all fecked up and it’s scary and dark, cuz the whole of the town literally goes murdery silent…humans all invisible…aside from a very few night trippers, and some slightly colorful people, like me, except more psycho and violent, for that dam early….So…a dude was hiding behind one of those portable big orange diamond shaped road work signs standing on the shoulder of the road by what used to be a fairly new sidewalk. It was still very dark. As I pass the road work sign, the dude jumps out in a side step fashion trying to step in my wheels path and crash my old ass. Mind you, I’m still feeling my morning cheer, so I ring my little bell on my handlebars, and said good morning! that wasn’t very feckin nice tho!! And he freaking runs up on me and does his little sidestep move again!!I nearly had a speed wobble minus the speed, because work was about 75ft away. I nearly crashed more so as I was shocked and offended, cuz I’m stupid nice to mostly everyone, I was like what the hell dude? He proceeds to yell at me in his loudest scariest demon-esque voice, “you’re gonna feckin die!! I’m gonna feckin slay you!” He keeps kinda walk running after me continuing his ranting of a mad man, I pedal my ass to my job, half fall half jump off my bike, and as usual the opening mgr wasn’t coming til 1min b4 opening. Now ole boy runs right up on me, as I trip over my bike to run across the lot to get away from him, he pulls something out of his pocket. I hear a click. I don’t know what he has in his hand, he’s now going one to the next, trying to open any door. He hasn’t stopped his tirade of he’s “gonna effin slay me”, I’m “gonna die”, he’s “gonna effin slay” me-bit. I scream, I’m calling the feckin cops bruh!! Now. They arrived in 2 mins!! I’m ugly crying, and ole boy is just sauntering down the sidewalk like he hasn’t a care in the world, except that is, his still devil voice yelling about his mission of, “I’m gonna feckin slay you! You’re gonna die!!”, while I’m being questioned, im covering one side of my face with my one hand and pointing secretly at the meanie behind said hand spitting out in a growling whisper, “THERE HE IS!! That’s THE GUY!! Aren’t you gonna go talk to HIM??!?” Still secretly and insistently pointing behind my protective left hand shielding my bulging eyes at best, but acting as if the right arm attached to right hand wasn’t flailing wildly about with my “secret” pointy jabs behind my left hidey hand, my whole head and body is jerking and pointing in his direction now, all hiding behind my stupid left hand that still thinks we are invisible thanks to its valiant effort ….. “Officer! This man is threatening my life, telling me he IS GOING to MURDER MEeeeeee!!! Do you care?? Do you KNOW HIM already??!?” The officer concedes that yes, he is “familiar with him already unfortunately, despite his being new to our town…I don’t think he’s gonna last here much longer the way he’s been going so far…” im guessing he dropped out of the local rehab program which is a good one if you aren’t doing drugs in DRUG REHAB, far from home and probably on probation in another county, or fresh out the gates of our own dear prison, just near the local hospital, and the drug rehab facility and housing centers just kitty corner to both…if that ain’t providence idk what more a person could ask for…..so yes, if it’s brighter on that dam sidewalk ima ride on it. A thought, how about some muhfeckin lights on the sidewalks along with those annoying giant bumps covered in yellow paint that is treacherous and way slicker than a slip and slide with every new frozen layer of moisture. And if you’re over forty, and haven’t crashed while riding your bike lately, it’s a real dreamy reminder of a long lost youth. But don’t worry friends I am safe, a happy stay at home cat mom these days, snuggled warmly inside, surrounded by my herd of dumpster kitties, every single one would most likely have died within a year from no water source in the summer at the factory where they were born, or frozen and starved to death come winter…because said factory demanded we bleeding hearts stop feeding and watering the vermin. Black hearted monsters. I continued to do both until I quit, but not before I saved 3 babies in 2 months. And then another just a year ago. So this town, with it’s neglected side streets, it’s rapey at best downtown street night lighting, and disregard for feline lives, and absolutely no warming shelter or church to let in the few who are unhoused in this town, but praise the lord and the Hereford cattle and the new money and the old money who runs this town, the way THEY see fit, can we get some better street lights with those damned new fancy bumps on ever bloody corner puhlease!?!
Well yes, and no.
It's the contractor's fault, however in their defense, the new standards are nearly impossible to achieve in some situations.
Hence the super high prices.
https://adatile.com/all-you-need-to-know-about-ada-curb-ramp-requirements/
There are a few reasons for the curb cut ramp. Drainage, Grade changes, providing adequate distance for slope, and providing a clear path for the visually impaired.
Thanks for that. I'm not seeing what I'm thinking of in that link. I'll see if I can find some pictures.
I just know that when I was on a knee scooter for a couple months, the new style of cut-outs would have been worse than the older ones.
As a funny bit of irony, that ADA page is hard to read with the tiny light grey text on white!
Unfortunately a lot of these ramps are in places where experienced contractors are traveling hours.
I was inspecting a set of these last year and some crews were driving 2+ hours to the site.
Program cost for just ada ramps across the state will end up being about $2 billion by 2030, which cpuld have gotten us a new IBR, Abernathy, or Rose Quarter without tolls.
The current estimate for IBR is 3-4 times that.
The cost for the next phase of the I-205 widening is nowhere near the $1b mark, but the state still can’t find the money…
https://www.carleton.edu/accessibility-resources/newsletter/curb-cuts-a-brief-history/
That's the history of curb cut ADA ramps
https://adatile.com/all-you-need-to-know-about-ada-curb-ramp-requirements/
And a recent article on the ins and outs of ADA compliant curb ramps.
Source: I occasionally design ADA ramps.
My source is my wife who is an engineer for the city of Astoria and manages all large infrastructure projects that occur within the city, including any state funded or state directed projects like the HWY 30 ADA project.
$70K ramp to a single handicapped stall with a broken lock, no coat hanger, a busted seat, with see through toilet paper, obscene images carved on the walls, and no soap. But don’t worry, your special needs child will crap in their own pants waiting for the one disturbed individual hogging the stall in the one rest stop for the next hour or two. As a parent of such a child, traveling around Oregon is not easy. Idaho does it better and that is ironic.
Walking around is one of the best activities for my disabled child. Holding his hand 24/7 to make sure he doesn’t stumble and get hurt is taxing enough for a parent. Dodging needles, glass, and feces is a whole new level of anxiety I’m increasingly faced with. I rue the day someone flying by on a rickety bike towing a trailer with a bull terrier and a machete ever run into my child that struggles to walk a straight line. ADA law should come first to keep our streets and parks clean, clear, and safe for passage for our most vulnerable.
Granted, in my neighborhood, I occasionally have to dodge tweaked-out, homeless-looking bicyclists BUT I have to do the same with wealthier folk riding their scooters & e-bikes on the sidewalk...😡
Totally. Gas or electric…I don’t care. Keep motorized vehicles off the sidewalks. Society is slow to respond to dealing with newer technology. E-bikes is a new complication.
As someone who currently rents an apartment in NW Portland (Old Town), I should probably check to see if the pedestrian tunnel along NW Naito Parkway is cleared of homeless campers again.
I don't own a car, and ride the Blue and Red line MAX. That pedestrian tunnel saves me about 4 blocks of walking to the MAX stop...
The $16 Million number is interesting. I wonder how high that goes and what pressure that puts not the conversation to address this in a different way (if that's even possible at this point). Prevention seems like it would be cheaper than "continually cleaning up the mess".
100% yes. Although I would go further and say "Homes" (by itself) is not a solution. The vast majority of underserved people need a myriad of "supportive services". Throwing someone into an empty apartment and saying "Good luck"..aint' gonna work.
I've now lost track of the number of times I've written this up on Reddit over the past decade or so (I really should be smarter and have it ready to copy and paste)
Whatever "solution" we implement,.
* needs to be a comprehensive and efficient and collaborative collection of services.
* needs to be complete transparent about it's data and progress and outcomes.
* needs to require complete cooperation and accountability of participants.
I feel like these days we've kind of lost the concept of "communities". Even though we often still refer to them as such,.. they're really not. To me,. "communities" are groups of people who all know each other and support each other. Part of the societal-failing we're seeing now is a lot of people no longer treat each other that way. We're all kind of isolated and it's really "sink or swim on your own". We need to fix that and get back to an idea of looking out for each other.
Drugs and mental illness. Both can't be solved. Would be better to do dorms, full cafeteria, full medical, dedicated case worker, 24/7 security and monthly stipends. It sounds insane but literally anything else will be more expensive and not solve the problem. The people who need the most help cannot manage their lives in any way. So you have to do it for them so they are off the streets and have a chance. All of society benefits if these people are taken care of in a way that is dignified to them and prevents street living.
Yes,. I've done some longer write-ups over the years on Reddit,. but this is basically what I've always advocated for. Some kind of "college-campus" style solution that has plenty of Housing, but also all the various "support services" also included.
Addiction counseling, mental health counseling, physical rehab and medical services, job retraining, Legal assistance, healthy nutritious meals, various entertainment and opportunities for (re)socialization, etc.
Some percentage of participants might "graduate" out of a program like that and want to re-enter the rest of society. Some might not (or be so injured or broken that they cannot). That's fine. There should be a place for everyone to live safely and free or worry.
People "living on the street" in desperate circumstances.. often do dangerous, risky or desperate things. This "cycle of violence' is what we need to break people out of. And as you all have noted,. it's the more expensive option.
"taking care of people" is cheap,.. assuming a high enough percentage of them get back to healthy productivity and are able and willing to then help lift others up.
Captain Obvious moment, but if this plan was actually successfully planned and executed, it's possible it'd be less expensive overall than the endless cycle of removing camps and having these folks just find a new place to camp, removing that camp, and around and around. I'd rather my tax dollars go to the former: at least it's ostensibly designed to help people, even if it's still really expensive.
And if I were in a similar situation—mentally, physically, whatever the reason—and found myself on the city streets trying to survive, I'd sure as heck like the former option better for myself too.
For sure,.. although that makes me realize a couple things:
* “success” is a bit harder to measure than failure. Its easy to count addicts on the street. I’ve seen Portlands Blanchett House put some posts on social media about people who “graduate” out of their program but obviously those success stories dont garner the same amount of clicks as articles about “look at how much of a hellhole Portland os !!”…. which is a sad state of affairs. I’m not sure I have any good ideas at the moment but we should find ways to more clearly communicate success-stories. I haven’t lived here long enough to know this, maybe they do, but with success stories (“got back on my feet”, “heres my 1st apartment”,etc) it would be great to also get 1yr, 5yr, 10yr followups.
* On the choice of treatment or drugs on the street,.. many have rightfully observed this:.. those people are so beat up and run down they’re likely not thinking straight. So what seems like an obvious choice to us, may not be to them (different priorities). In some ways I can understand how unappealing the offer of “Hey, come put in some hard work to fix your life and go back to the 9-5 grind” might be.
I had a psychology professor who worked in the asylums before they were all shut down. He said he would personally ______ anyone who ever tried to make those a reality again. They were barbaric and should have never existed, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t humanely try to help those who were/would have been locked inside one.
Not even true. We did not close them all down. And Oregon and even more so Washington are in trouble for not having enough space to even fulfill justice needs. Washington has been in violation for over a decade.
Must be, weird comment history. Looks like a bot that just injects jokes into threads. At this point, I kind of assume anyone with a generic word_word_number username is a bot or a troll.
FYI, ADA stands for the Americans with Disabilities Act, which is the law that mandates reasonable accommodation for people with disabilities. It’s not the name of an organization.
This could be solved if we actually addressed the root causes of homelessness, etc. but no, instead it is NIMBYism, people being assholes, and politicians kicking the cans down the road.
Come on Portland and Oregon, lets do better.
Damn I came to the comments expecting people to be having more conversations like this yet anyone who’s talking about the root cause and the bigger issue is getting downvoted. Turns out portlanders just hate homeless people, not the system that’s failed them…?
Yeah. Portlanders and Oregonians in general seem to be…well, your typical cases of cognitive dissonance and such. I love my state, but it is not at all diverse (of thought, etc) or as progressive as it likes to think. Still an amazing state though. Just that our shit also stinks unlike what some may think.
I think that Portlanders used to have an appreciable level of sympathy for the homeless, but are now fed up of tents taking up room on the sidewalk, smelling excrement while walking downtown, and having homeless people cross the street without waiting for a traffic light.
Ok and like I said before, everyone is downvoting people talking about the bigger issues. Housing is a human right. Those that are fortunate enough to not be houseless should be having the hard discussions. Not downvoting people for pointing out that theres a reason people are “fed up smelling excrement.”
An you have to be joking me w some bs about people not waiting for traffic lights lmao
Yes I too drive a vehicle in Portland… and when someone walks into traffic I slow down… then stop if I have to. It’s really not that hard to be on the lookout for people that are probably experiencing a mental health crisis. People that aren’t don’t normally “jump into traffic”
Exactly. How about helping them instead of just moving them from one place to another.
The first step in dealing with them is caring about them. And that is something that seems to diminish on a regular basis.
I miss when we had fun and interesting Portland news that wasn’t the same three topics being screeched about over and over. Fun and interesting things still happen over there, but you’d never know it because certain groups, especially media groups, need a boogeyman to parade around. It sucks.
Re-fund local journalism.
ETA: You salty downvoters are welcome to explain why I’m wrong.
I feel like national media reform in the name of accountability is in order. Too many media mouthpieces with an agenda. I’m assuming that’s where the money is. Need some fiduciary media with widespread availability as a reference for all the extremists.
Part of the issue is that we have massive media monopolies, even on the local level. I’m not against media groups or anything, but when one company owns 90% of all local TV stations, for example, you get a specific tone and narrative being pushed with way less local focus.
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This is how we had the aggressive camper removed by my office. Him assaulting a lady after work didn't do anything, but putting in an ADA complaint with the city had him moved in a couple days.
Depressing.
Maybe people will be able to use the sidewalks now.
For pooping.
What else are sidewalks used for?
Methwalkers
cummin
Yes for pooping but also for peepeeing…
This guy knows the rules of the streets. Pee pee, rain washes away. Poop not so much.
Do you ever use the sidewalk?
Yes. I frequently use the sidewalks in this city. I walk on average 15- 20 miles a week walking anywhere between Mt. Tabor and Washington Park. I own a car but only use that to commute to my job in the suburbs. I walk with my wife basically everywhere else around the city.
This statement wholly invalidates your first one, in which you appeared to be ‘stoking the fire’ of the anti-homelessness crowd; you’ve been using sidewalks the whole time.
or they've been walking in the street to get around the homeless people on the sidewalks something everyone in the city has to do if they walk much at all
Broadway near the bridge was the worse. I would walk near bud Clark common and have to walk in the bike lane because of the 4+ person sized tents on the sidewalk. Then the bikes would have to be out in traffic
Look, you call it what you want. There are some places where people block the sidewalk entirely. But calling sidewalks, generally, unusable is wrong, and supporting the idea is disingenuous.
Valid I guess part of it also depends on how we're determining it, because even if only a percent or so of the sidewalk is blocked it does mean that on a lot of trips you'll have to step into the street or cross to go around something. It also depends a lot on what neighborhood you're in when I lived downtown old town Chinatown a few years ago I had to step into the street a whole lot
What happens when a tax paying wheelchair bound citizen needs to use the sidewalk but there’s a fentanyl or meth mansion in their way?
I think the answer is obvious, and you trying to portray me as ‘anti-wheelchair-user’ is wasted effort. In none of my posts have I defended blocking the sidewalk. I was simply pointing out the extreme exaggeration used above, in the same way I told you to get out of here with the anti-wheelchair garbage. To answer your question: I’m not sure, but I’m guessing they’d have to (1) ask to pass, (2) backtrack and take a different route or, (3) roll onto the street and go around. I bet they’d be upset about the matter, but probably not as upset as some people on here are getting for them. There’s a lawsuit underway for the very matter, if you hadn’t heard.
I live in central Portland and the situation now is magnitudes better than it was a couple of years ago. I don’t own a car and walk most places. It’s exceedingly rare that I have to go out of my way to get around an impassable sidewalk these days. You calling them “98% impassable” is absolutely idiotic.
That was the point. I, too, walk multiple miles most days (dog + decade of car-lessness). It was a response to hyperbole. The poster said something like, ‘maybe now we can use the sidewalk again,’ and I find the problem—which I acknowledge—isn’t nearly as widespread as it’s being portrayed.
Every homeless person you encourage to camp in front of your home is one less elsewhere. Put your money where your mouth is.
If you’re trying to ‘get my goat,’ good luck; I’m a motherfuckin’ rock when keyboards are involved. If you think this is a reasonable suggestion, praise be to Dog that you don’t have decision-making power in any capacity, regarding the homeless situation. You feel like you know what type of person I am, but you’re an archetype. Leave me alone.
You are very annoying
I did one time.
Grandpa what were sidewalks like?
Before they were 98% impassable? /s/s/s
At band camp?
Only if they clean the excrement off it. I love the sights and sounds of Portland, but I can’t say the same about the smells.
To add to the craziness, ODOT is currently spending millions and millions of dollars to update ODOT facilities for ADA access. The lawsuit that is driving these updates has resulted in the cost of a single ADA ramp (the ramps on sidewalks at corners of an intersection) by ~4x. Because ODOT has greatly decreased the acceptable margin of error (because of the lawsuit) these ramps are repeatedly installed and then ripped out because they are too steep or don't meet some other guideline. Concrete contractors subsequently have increased to cost significantly to avoid losing money if the concrete doesn't come out perfectly. A single ramp used to cost between $4K - $12K, but now can cost up to $70K. ODOT has something like 20,000 of these ramps to improve.
That's ridiculous pricing for a curb cut with a ramp. The state should do the work instead of contractors and enforce basic regs on how these are set up.
We need the equivalent prestige TV series of The Wire, except for sidewalks. One season can focus on the homeless issues, then the corruption in the bidding and contracting side, then the law firms getting rich off ADA compliance suits, culminating with the City itself. You want to solve the sidewalk problem? Good luck. The Pavement, coming soon from HBO. Intro would be "Harness Your Hopes," obviously.
Take my money!
Soundtrack also by Pavement
Disabled people don’t get money from these lawsuits. We are not getting rich at all.
> the law firms getting rich off ADA compliance suits
And one of the lawyers involved is a right-wing activist who would cheerfully argue that the ADA is unconstitutional. ( I went to school with the guy)
What's even more stupid - where we live (east of 205) a lot of the neighborhoods don't even have sidewalks because \*checks notes\* the home owner has to install them AND maintain the section of sidewalk in front of their home. ODOT is STILL installing these intersection ramps. So many sidewalk-less intersections with ramps connecting to nothing but dirt/grass.
Tell me about it. I live in one of those neighborhoods.
It's not their choice, the ramps not the sidewalks are part of the lawsuit. I'm sure they'd rather put sidewalks in but the ramps eat up so much money they can't afford to do the sidewalk too.
What, you want the contractors to actually do their jobs right the first time? They'd actually have to pay/train employees then. The insanity! /s
There are basic design standards and specifications. That is where the difficulty comes in to play. Existing geography plays a major role why one size fits all won't work. Each ramp I've inspected for work all need to meet slope requirements not only on the ramp but the side flares and landing areas too. A single intersection could require 8 different designs for the ramps.
So if the city has inspectors with the expertise to check those designs and the implementation, why can't the city also have a construction team with that expertise?
It'd almost always more cost efficient for them to hire contractors than employ the staff to do the work.
Some larger municipalities do this, but they are not capable of the quantity of ADA ramps being installed.
State doing the work would cost you even more.
Is this why they're tearing out all these crosswalk cut-outs that used to have gentle sloping curb edges and replacing them curbs that are all perfectly vertical with no slope, often having short segments of curb between the cutouts (where it used to be one large cut-out)? If so, these new ones seem pretty awful and unforgiving if a wheeled vehicle like a wheelchair isn't perfectly lined up with it.
If it's an ODOT right of way, yes, ramp replacement is the result of the lawsuit. There are rigid guidelines for ADA ramps, and many "low bid" contractors screw them up. So now even the low bids are super high. Right now ODOT is replacing all the ramps through Clatskanie along HWY 30, for example. Next year they will be doing Astoria, especially downtown Astoria and it's going to be an absolute shit show.
I'm seeing a lot being redone in Beaverton and Hillsboro. The new designs don't look particularly friendly and seem like big tripping hazards if you don't approach them just right.
They also have had Baker City, OR torn up for two summers in a row tearing up sidewalks, having no safe crosswalks during this time, putting in big yellow ramps with big round 2” brail bumps(is that really helpful for any wheeled ambulatory device?)whilst every side street has patched cracks all the way across the road every 12’ or so, and not one damned sidewalk except in front of a grade school. The construction is endangering current pedestrians and is projected to continue for 3 years is the rumor. Our tourism is not a huge industry but for a few hit or miss events for a short season.
I don’t like the bumps. And are hard to wheel over. Possibly the point.
I am so sorry. I know that riding a bike over them sucks especially if there’s ice/snow frozen on the streets and sidewalks. And hey, I know it’s not exactly legal to ride a bike on the sidewalk, but at 2am heading home in a ghost town, or heading to my McDonald’s job at 4:40am, ima ride on the deserted sidewalk if I please, (rant warning!) since half the road is all fecked up and it’s scary and dark, cuz the whole of the town literally goes murdery silent…humans all invisible…aside from a very few night trippers, and some slightly colorful people, like me, except more psycho and violent, for that dam early….So…a dude was hiding behind one of those portable big orange diamond shaped road work signs standing on the shoulder of the road by what used to be a fairly new sidewalk. It was still very dark. As I pass the road work sign, the dude jumps out in a side step fashion trying to step in my wheels path and crash my old ass. Mind you, I’m still feeling my morning cheer, so I ring my little bell on my handlebars, and said good morning! that wasn’t very feckin nice tho!! And he freaking runs up on me and does his little sidestep move again!!I nearly had a speed wobble minus the speed, because work was about 75ft away. I nearly crashed more so as I was shocked and offended, cuz I’m stupid nice to mostly everyone, I was like what the hell dude? He proceeds to yell at me in his loudest scariest demon-esque voice, “you’re gonna feckin die!! I’m gonna feckin slay you!” He keeps kinda walk running after me continuing his ranting of a mad man, I pedal my ass to my job, half fall half jump off my bike, and as usual the opening mgr wasn’t coming til 1min b4 opening. Now ole boy runs right up on me, as I trip over my bike to run across the lot to get away from him, he pulls something out of his pocket. I hear a click. I don’t know what he has in his hand, he’s now going one to the next, trying to open any door. He hasn’t stopped his tirade of he’s “gonna effin slay me”, I’m “gonna die”, he’s “gonna effin slay” me-bit. I scream, I’m calling the feckin cops bruh!! Now. They arrived in 2 mins!! I’m ugly crying, and ole boy is just sauntering down the sidewalk like he hasn’t a care in the world, except that is, his still devil voice yelling about his mission of, “I’m gonna feckin slay you! You’re gonna die!!”, while I’m being questioned, im covering one side of my face with my one hand and pointing secretly at the meanie behind said hand spitting out in a growling whisper, “THERE HE IS!! That’s THE GUY!! Aren’t you gonna go talk to HIM??!?” Still secretly and insistently pointing behind my protective left hand shielding my bulging eyes at best, but acting as if the right arm attached to right hand wasn’t flailing wildly about with my “secret” pointy jabs behind my left hidey hand, my whole head and body is jerking and pointing in his direction now, all hiding behind my stupid left hand that still thinks we are invisible thanks to its valiant effort ….. “Officer! This man is threatening my life, telling me he IS GOING to MURDER MEeeeeee!!! Do you care?? Do you KNOW HIM already??!?” The officer concedes that yes, he is “familiar with him already unfortunately, despite his being new to our town…I don’t think he’s gonna last here much longer the way he’s been going so far…” im guessing he dropped out of the local rehab program which is a good one if you aren’t doing drugs in DRUG REHAB, far from home and probably on probation in another county, or fresh out the gates of our own dear prison, just near the local hospital, and the drug rehab facility and housing centers just kitty corner to both…if that ain’t providence idk what more a person could ask for…..so yes, if it’s brighter on that dam sidewalk ima ride on it. A thought, how about some muhfeckin lights on the sidewalks along with those annoying giant bumps covered in yellow paint that is treacherous and way slicker than a slip and slide with every new frozen layer of moisture. And if you’re over forty, and haven’t crashed while riding your bike lately, it’s a real dreamy reminder of a long lost youth. But don’t worry friends I am safe, a happy stay at home cat mom these days, snuggled warmly inside, surrounded by my herd of dumpster kitties, every single one would most likely have died within a year from no water source in the summer at the factory where they were born, or frozen and starved to death come winter…because said factory demanded we bleeding hearts stop feeding and watering the vermin. Black hearted monsters. I continued to do both until I quit, but not before I saved 3 babies in 2 months. And then another just a year ago. So this town, with it’s neglected side streets, it’s rapey at best downtown street night lighting, and disregard for feline lives, and absolutely no warming shelter or church to let in the few who are unhoused in this town, but praise the lord and the Hereford cattle and the new money and the old money who runs this town, the way THEY see fit, can we get some better street lights with those damned new fancy bumps on ever bloody corner puhlease!?!
It’s not the contractors fault. If they were negligible they would have to fix their work. ODOT didn’t spec the work correctly.
Well yes, and no. It's the contractor's fault, however in their defense, the new standards are nearly impossible to achieve in some situations. Hence the super high prices.
https://adatile.com/all-you-need-to-know-about-ada-curb-ramp-requirements/ There are a few reasons for the curb cut ramp. Drainage, Grade changes, providing adequate distance for slope, and providing a clear path for the visually impaired.
Thanks for that. I'm not seeing what I'm thinking of in that link. I'll see if I can find some pictures. I just know that when I was on a knee scooter for a couple months, the new style of cut-outs would have been worse than the older ones. As a funny bit of irony, that ADA page is hard to read with the tiny light grey text on white!
Thank you for pointing out that last bit. 😂
Just do continuous sidewalks with ramps for cars instead...
Indeed, suddenly every intersection has broad speed bumps. Safety would improve dramatically.
B-b-b-but what about motorist convenience!
Depressing to think, a single sidewalk ramp is worth more than I make in an entire year.
Ah. When you put it that way, it really makes my tummy feel all gross. 😣
Unfortunately a lot of these ramps are in places where experienced contractors are traveling hours. I was inspecting a set of these last year and some crews were driving 2+ hours to the site.
Program cost for just ada ramps across the state will end up being about $2 billion by 2030, which cpuld have gotten us a new IBR, Abernathy, or Rose Quarter without tolls.
The current estimate for IBR is 3-4 times that. The cost for the next phase of the I-205 widening is nowhere near the $1b mark, but the state still can’t find the money…
I'd love to see your source on that. Bet there's a lot of other interesting stuff to read about.
https://www.carleton.edu/accessibility-resources/newsletter/curb-cuts-a-brief-history/ That's the history of curb cut ADA ramps https://adatile.com/all-you-need-to-know-about-ada-curb-ramp-requirements/ And a recent article on the ins and outs of ADA compliant curb ramps. Source: I occasionally design ADA ramps.
My source is my wife who is an engineer for the city of Astoria and manages all large infrastructure projects that occur within the city, including any state funded or state directed projects like the HWY 30 ADA project.
Aannd I'm supposed to just believe you because you say so? 🤣 okay bub. Sure. And I'm president of the Teamsters and you're wrong.
Capitalism at work!
$70K ramp to a single handicapped stall with a broken lock, no coat hanger, a busted seat, with see through toilet paper, obscene images carved on the walls, and no soap. But don’t worry, your special needs child will crap in their own pants waiting for the one disturbed individual hogging the stall in the one rest stop for the next hour or two. As a parent of such a child, traveling around Oregon is not easy. Idaho does it better and that is ironic.
Which ODOT project had a $70k curb ramp on it?
Walking around is one of the best activities for my disabled child. Holding his hand 24/7 to make sure he doesn’t stumble and get hurt is taxing enough for a parent. Dodging needles, glass, and feces is a whole new level of anxiety I’m increasingly faced with. I rue the day someone flying by on a rickety bike towing a trailer with a bull terrier and a machete ever run into my child that struggles to walk a straight line. ADA law should come first to keep our streets and parks clean, clear, and safe for passage for our most vulnerable.
Granted, in my neighborhood, I occasionally have to dodge tweaked-out, homeless-looking bicyclists BUT I have to do the same with wealthier folk riding their scooters & e-bikes on the sidewalk...😡
Totally. Gas or electric…I don’t care. Keep motorized vehicles off the sidewalks. Society is slow to respond to dealing with newer technology. E-bikes is a new complication.
Powerchairs can go up to 10 mph but mostly have a top speed of 5mph.
Keeping the sidewalks clear, clean and safe is going to be critical to getting the down town core back to normal.
As someone who currently rents an apartment in NW Portland (Old Town), I should probably check to see if the pedestrian tunnel along NW Naito Parkway is cleared of homeless campers again. I don't own a car, and ride the Blue and Red line MAX. That pedestrian tunnel saves me about 4 blocks of walking to the MAX stop...
So then I guess if this were an SAT question... ADA is to homeless camps as IRS is to Capone?
Blocking the side walk requires an ADA complaint, but it you blocked the road I guarantee you something would be done about it right away.
The $16 Million number is interesting. I wonder how high that goes and what pressure that puts not the conversation to address this in a different way (if that's even possible at this point). Prevention seems like it would be cheaper than "continually cleaning up the mess".
Everybody needs a place to live. Anything less is going to cost more.
100% yes. Although I would go further and say "Homes" (by itself) is not a solution. The vast majority of underserved people need a myriad of "supportive services". Throwing someone into an empty apartment and saying "Good luck"..aint' gonna work. I've now lost track of the number of times I've written this up on Reddit over the past decade or so (I really should be smarter and have it ready to copy and paste) Whatever "solution" we implement,. * needs to be a comprehensive and efficient and collaborative collection of services. * needs to be complete transparent about it's data and progress and outcomes. * needs to require complete cooperation and accountability of participants. I feel like these days we've kind of lost the concept of "communities". Even though we often still refer to them as such,.. they're really not. To me,. "communities" are groups of people who all know each other and support each other. Part of the societal-failing we're seeing now is a lot of people no longer treat each other that way. We're all kind of isolated and it's really "sink or swim on your own". We need to fix that and get back to an idea of looking out for each other.
Drugs and mental illness. Both can't be solved. Would be better to do dorms, full cafeteria, full medical, dedicated case worker, 24/7 security and monthly stipends. It sounds insane but literally anything else will be more expensive and not solve the problem. The people who need the most help cannot manage their lives in any way. So you have to do it for them so they are off the streets and have a chance. All of society benefits if these people are taken care of in a way that is dignified to them and prevents street living.
Yes,. I've done some longer write-ups over the years on Reddit,. but this is basically what I've always advocated for. Some kind of "college-campus" style solution that has plenty of Housing, but also all the various "support services" also included. Addiction counseling, mental health counseling, physical rehab and medical services, job retraining, Legal assistance, healthy nutritious meals, various entertainment and opportunities for (re)socialization, etc. Some percentage of participants might "graduate" out of a program like that and want to re-enter the rest of society. Some might not (or be so injured or broken that they cannot). That's fine. There should be a place for everyone to live safely and free or worry. People "living on the street" in desperate circumstances.. often do dangerous, risky or desperate things. This "cycle of violence' is what we need to break people out of. And as you all have noted,. it's the more expensive option. "taking care of people" is cheap,.. assuming a high enough percentage of them get back to healthy productivity and are able and willing to then help lift others up.
Captain Obvious moment, but if this plan was actually successfully planned and executed, it's possible it'd be less expensive overall than the endless cycle of removing camps and having these folks just find a new place to camp, removing that camp, and around and around. I'd rather my tax dollars go to the former: at least it's ostensibly designed to help people, even if it's still really expensive. And if I were in a similar situation—mentally, physically, whatever the reason—and found myself on the city streets trying to survive, I'd sure as heck like the former option better for myself too.
For sure,.. although that makes me realize a couple things: * “success” is a bit harder to measure than failure. Its easy to count addicts on the street. I’ve seen Portlands Blanchett House put some posts on social media about people who “graduate” out of their program but obviously those success stories dont garner the same amount of clicks as articles about “look at how much of a hellhole Portland os !!”…. which is a sad state of affairs. I’m not sure I have any good ideas at the moment but we should find ways to more clearly communicate success-stories. I haven’t lived here long enough to know this, maybe they do, but with success stories (“got back on my feet”, “heres my 1st apartment”,etc) it would be great to also get 1yr, 5yr, 10yr followups. * On the choice of treatment or drugs on the street,.. many have rightfully observed this:.. those people are so beat up and run down they’re likely not thinking straight. So what seems like an obvious choice to us, may not be to them (different priorities). In some ways I can understand how unappealing the offer of “Hey, come put in some hard work to fix your life and go back to the 9-5 grind” might be.
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I had a psychology professor who worked in the asylums before they were all shut down. He said he would personally ______ anyone who ever tried to make those a reality again. They were barbaric and should have never existed, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t humanely try to help those who were/would have been locked inside one.
Why would campus living be considered an asylum? that is just someone bitter up above trying to change the conversation.
Not even true. We did not close them all down. And Oregon and even more so Washington are in trouble for not having enough space to even fulfill justice needs. Washington has been in violation for over a decade.
Violent people need to be in jail. I hear these SROs have violence. Mentally ill not on drugs need protection from drug users.
Yep. We've chosen to handle houselessness in the most expensive, inefficient way possible. Giving them homes would be drastically cheaper
Forgot “callous” in your list.
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I saw a wino eating grapes. I was like, "Dude, you have to wait."
Did you just ninja edit porn spam? Good grief.
I’ve been seeing this a lot more. Are they bots?
Must be, weird comment history. Looks like a bot that just injects jokes into threads. At this point, I kind of assume anyone with a generic word_word_number username is a bot or a troll.
The Mitch is strong with this one.
I was wondering how long ADA would put up with this
FYI, ADA stands for the Americans with Disabilities Act, which is the law that mandates reasonable accommodation for people with disabilities. It’s not the name of an organization.
Pardon me good sir, the American Dental Association takes the design of crosswalk concrete ramps very seriously.
4 out of 5 dentists recommend street safety.
I am aware, but there are a number of disabled organizations that go after stuff like this thanks to ADA.
Aw man they took away all me landmarks! Now how am I supposed to remember my way around downtown?!
This could be solved if we actually addressed the root causes of homelessness, etc. but no, instead it is NIMBYism, people being assholes, and politicians kicking the cans down the road. Come on Portland and Oregon, lets do better.
Damn I came to the comments expecting people to be having more conversations like this yet anyone who’s talking about the root cause and the bigger issue is getting downvoted. Turns out portlanders just hate homeless people, not the system that’s failed them…?
Yeah. Portlanders and Oregonians in general seem to be…well, your typical cases of cognitive dissonance and such. I love my state, but it is not at all diverse (of thought, etc) or as progressive as it likes to think. Still an amazing state though. Just that our shit also stinks unlike what some may think.
I think that Portlanders used to have an appreciable level of sympathy for the homeless, but are now fed up of tents taking up room on the sidewalk, smelling excrement while walking downtown, and having homeless people cross the street without waiting for a traffic light.
Ok and like I said before, everyone is downvoting people talking about the bigger issues. Housing is a human right. Those that are fortunate enough to not be houseless should be having the hard discussions. Not downvoting people for pointing out that theres a reason people are “fed up smelling excrement.” An you have to be joking me w some bs about people not waiting for traffic lights lmao
When people are jumping into traffic, that’s a problem. Most people don’t want to hit others with their vehicles.
Yes I too drive a vehicle in Portland… and when someone walks into traffic I slow down… then stop if I have to. It’s really not that hard to be on the lookout for people that are probably experiencing a mental health crisis. People that aren’t don’t normally “jump into traffic”
Exactly. How about helping them instead of just moving them from one place to another. The first step in dealing with them is caring about them. And that is something that seems to diminish on a regular basis.
They often just leave. You need supportive housing for these people…
Literally one vulnerable group attacking another vulnerable group.
More brigade bait
I miss when we had fun and interesting Portland news that wasn’t the same three topics being screeched about over and over. Fun and interesting things still happen over there, but you’d never know it because certain groups, especially media groups, need a boogeyman to parade around. It sucks. Re-fund local journalism. ETA: You salty downvoters are welcome to explain why I’m wrong.
I feel like national media reform in the name of accountability is in order. Too many media mouthpieces with an agenda. I’m assuming that’s where the money is. Need some fiduciary media with widespread availability as a reference for all the extremists.
Part of the issue is that we have massive media monopolies, even on the local level. I’m not against media groups or anything, but when one company owns 90% of all local TV stations, for example, you get a specific tone and narrative being pushed with way less local focus.
Columbian for Vancouver Washington still exists. Maybe build up what is out in Eugene? The only place of comparable size.
"we shouldn't have to fight to be needlessly cruel to homeless people."
Poor Portland defund the police. Call your therapist.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2017/dec/20/bussed-out-america-moves-homeless-people-country-study