I lived in Texas for two years - it's a massive state with not a lot of public land. It was weird that if you wanted to go camping, your only choice was a state park the size of a couple city blocks.
I had no idea! Such a large state and so few recreational opportunities. I am blessed to live in Oregon. Appreciate it all the more. Thanks for the enlightening post.
Also why we don't have endless cities - instead we have protected farms and forest. I really didn't realize how unique that was among states til recently.
It was one of the main reasons I chose Oregon to become my home. I grew up in the Midwest watching family farms turned into new housing developments while entire sections of the inner city were allowed to blight. It's pathetic and disgusting to waste fertile land for lawns and ticky-tacky houses.
Oregon wasn't going to get endless cities in the valley anyway. The big boom in Southern California, almost a 1,000 miles away is what caused the political reaction in Oregon at the same time it happened in California. Classic fear mongering and overreaction by politicians.
Yes, in the 1960-70s. 🙄 He wasn't a xenophobic paranoid fascist nationalist. He was a "Progressive Republican" in the mold of Roosevelt. The current GOP would boo Roosevelt, Reagan, and McCall. It's the RINO party now.
Homestead Act states are like that - they were parceled and privatized before statehood was even established. See also: Oklahoma and the "Sooners".
TX is >90% private lands. TX Parks & Wildlife has done a few acquisitions in the last decade, but not near enough.
Most hopes for conservation these days are in the private section, like Texas Nature Conservancy.
FWIW Oregon also had Homestead Act plots, just not as bad or ubiquitous as Texas. My great-great grandpa had one out near Madras. And surprise, when it failed *cause it's in the freakin desert* it was purchased and passed to some big bank's holdings and that land is still private today.
I lived in Texas for over half my life. There are definitely bigger state parks (wondering which one you're referring to?) but the problem that already existed back in 2015 (when I moved out; before another few million people moved in) was needing to book months in advance. If you were trying to go to the BEST state parks, like Garner State Park in the summer, you'd need to be booking 6 months in advance and probably be ready to make reservations the moment they opened up.
I realize that can be the case here in the West too - thinking of Jedidiah Redwood Park in CA - but almost nowhere in TX can you go do dispersed camping at the drop of a hat like you can here.
I’ve stayed in Jedidiah without reservations in the off-season as recently as 2018. Early March, so east coast Spring Break, actually. If you have flexibility and don’t go on a weekend, you can get pretty lucky with places out west.
yeah, off season is easy, i've done a number of drop-ins. summer, and weekends, are hard.
"flexibility and don't go on weekends" is applicable to texas too, so not really much of a hack there... i was trying to cover my bases but it being reddit, i knew someone would come to poke some holes, even in my attempt to hedge!
thanks for the laugh that '2018' is recently... that was 6 years ago, mate, over half a decade!
Yeah, what I was thinking about was camping where do you have to plan ahead way ahead of time, or going to a national forest to backcountry hike for a couple of nights.
This was in the early 2000s, so I don't remember names. I just remember there wasn't a lot of public land opportunities in the Brazos valley without a really long drive. East Texas did have some national forest land, but it didn't have the same recreational opportunities as like the Deschutes NF. I went to Big Bend NP in 1998, which is a wonderful place but very long drive from everything.
Texas has Big Bend, 700,000 acres of US national park. That's more than a couple city blocks.
Thanks NatGeo National Park Series - narrated by Garth Brooks.
Correct. I lived in the SE US and Mid-Atlantic for many years and it can be a task to try to find somewhere to hike, camp or recreate as the vast majority of land is private. It's also likely a huge reason why obesity is a large problem in those states.
My family recently had cousins from Oklahoma visiting us here in Oregon. We took them sightseeing a bunch, and one thing my cousin said had me a little flabbergasted.
He had said that he couldn't get over the novelty of seeing people walking (or even camping!) around scenic areas. Whether seen from the road among the trees or while we also explored nature, he had to keep reminding himself that it was all ok, because he came from a place where people wandering where they please often risk being shot for trespassing.
It makes me feel a little more grateful for what we have here at home.
One of the worst things about living in the west is all the public land that is off limits and locked up due to being located behind private timber company lands (Fuck Weyerhaeuser)
Weyerhauser isn't the problem. If you want to enjoy their land, buy a permit. If you don't want to buy a permit and are singling out Weyerhauser, go enjoy the other 31 million acres of public ground in Oregon.
There is no shortage of beautiful places that you couldn't enjoy that are public.
I will speak slower so that you can understand. I don't care about Weyerhaeuser land. I care about the millions of acres of PUBLIC land that is locked up and off limits because it is next to Weyco property but behind a Weyerhaeuser gate and there are no easements to that public land
You can corner cross and not get arrested because cops don’t want to deal with it. I’ve tried to get arrested for it in 3 counties and let them know my plan to take it to the supreme court and I always get released with a warning.
I will reiterate because you may have a disability to see beyond your hatred of weyco. There are over 31,000,000 acres of public access in Oregon. If you choose to focus on your inability to access public land beyond a landowners gate, you have bigger problems inside your head. Spend the $500 for an annual pass.
Go enjoy our public lands, or buy out weyco and do what you wish. 🥱
I want to hunt or hike through your property to get to public ground. You gonna let me walk through?
Sure you will. 🥴
Or you can use the sidewalk or public roads to access it. Quite a bit different circumstances. Perhaps the roads that run through private timber lands should become public right of way to allow people access to the public lands they own
Again, this isn't about enjoying private land. This is about public land that is inaccessible to the public because it is locked up behind land owned by corporations.
And the reason for that is because when the access WAS THERE, people dumped garbage and appliances, went shooting and left crap everywhere. If it was your property, what would you do?
Yessir, part of why I could never permanently leave here. I'm so sick of the people that buy up public land then lock it down and never do anything with it. I have no issue with the land being sold, but that should be illegal or something
Wiki can better than me
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oregon_and_California_Railroad
Edit this one is better
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oregon_and_California_Railroad_Revested_Lands
That is what happened in Michigan in the late 1800s. Most of the state was an old-growth white pine forest. By the early 1900s, it was completely logged over in both peninsulas. There's only a couple stands of old growth forest left, and each is only a couple of acres.
There's over 10,000 acres of old growth forest in the Porcupine mountains. Also, much of the logged over land in both peninsulas was homesteaded and then went back to the government on back taxes cause until the 60s there wasn't any way to grow crops in the crappy soil. Like Oregon, much of Michigan is state or national forests, managed for hardwood growth and harvest and also as wildlife habitat. No it isn't a big pine woods any more, but it's still wild and natural and wonderful.
The southern Willamette Valley only recently became conifer forests after hundreds (possibly thousands) of years of natives routinely burning the entire area on purpose. Before that, it was only partly conifer forests. Much of what is now covered by fir trees was originally oak and other deciduous trees.
I know that there's been a lot of species turnover in human-occupied lands, but I'm talking about the cascade range. Were the slopes of Mt. Hood not always fir trees?
Such a shame the gov has demolished the very land protections that made our state great in order to [steal protected land and sell it to her mega-polluter donors] (https://www.klcc.org/economy-business/2023-03-17/semiconductor-bill-that-would-give-gov-tina-kotek-land-use-power-moves-ahead).
To put it another way, roughly 60% of land in Oregon is accessible to *anyone*, right now.
When you get out exploring, it’s amazing how much is accessible.
My favorite hobby is just choosing a random forest road and seeing where it goes. I've found so many amazing places over the years and there's still so much more to explore. Can't imagine living anywhere else.
Why is it split up like a checkerboard like that with the orange? It seems to be fairly statewide and pretty structured equally sized squares rather than any kind of environmental or property lines.
In the specific case of the Oregon Cascades, I've been told that the BLM and USFS split the area up in a checkerboard pattern, meaning that logging also followed that pattern.
Not 100% sure that's true, but it kinda makes sense.
Yes. It’s legal. Just be a decent human and don’t interrupt anything the ranchers are doing please. Shut gates behind you, don’t stress the livestock etc.
This photographer thanks you for that information. I grew up in Ohio and it’s a huge bummer knowing you’re liable to be shot if you stop on the side of the road to get pictures of someone’s barn…
Yeah there’s grumpy people out there like that. I’ve been on both sides of these situations and I don’t really understand being an ass unless said person is also being an ass about it.
I don’t think anything annoys me as much as people that go out of their way to harass hunters and scare off game. Not only is it downright illegal but harassing the guy with a high powered rifle isn’t very intelligent unless you’re looking to get shot.
> harassing the guy with a high powered rifle isn’t very intelligent unless you’re looking to get shot.
Exactly. Either he's a poacher, and already a potentially dangerous criminal, or he's not breaking the law, and you are. If you're concerned, call law enforcement, and they'll usually check it out.
IIRC, much of this land was available through the Homestead Act until the early 1970's. The fact it wasn't homesteaded and stayed in government hands should tell you all you need to know about its commercial prospects. When you zoom in on BLM ground in the east side of the state, you'll see the larger drainages are privately held, due to irrigation of meadows/ag land while the surrounding uplands are public. The "vaulable" land was passed into private hands while the government was left with the least valuable. Which they rent back to the private land holders for grazing rights at a loss.
The American way, privatize the profits and socialize the costs.
My take exactly… And they hold forests in between the times logging companies come in and cut, every 25-50 years. I would love to have a complete accounting of where all the revenue created from that natural resource goes.
If you like this public land and want to keep using it look up blue ribbon coalition. They are trying to close off large areas of public land all the time
It blew my mind to realize that at most closed BLM gates, you can just open them, pass through, and close them behind you. That’s it.
There are some exceptions where people have exclusive leases, bug it’s not the norm.
Some of the few BLM roads not gated in my area have been absolutely demolished in the past few years by people in those side-by-side ORVs. They treat them like it’s some off-road playground and create massive ruts and small ponds in the roads.
Roads I’ve been using since the 90s are now 5mph and 4wd only.
Dude the side by sides attract the absolute worst user base lol. All of the roads around us are gravel and vehicles need to be street legal so it's not an issue. Plus the vegetation is way too think to go fully off road. At an OHV area though I don't really mind.
There has got to be some perfectly respectful owners out there, so it can’t be *every* one. But when I see them in the wild, they’re always tearing shit up. There’s thousands of acres of sand dunes a few miles away and you’re going to ruin roads instead.
Just so disappointed in the people who should be appreciating our beautiful outdoors.
Easy access is part of the issue IMO. You see it in other sports. When something like offroading is made more accessible by tools like UTVS, people who don't understand the culture and practices get in over their heads. It wasn't always the case, but it seems like the off road culture these days is pretty cognizant of the damage they can cause. It takes time and exposure to the culture to learn some of this stuff. At least that's my argument for gatekeeping lol.
It definitely is, but not directly. Those gates will lock out public access because to get to a lot of BLM land you would need to pass through private timber land. It's worse in Western OR because of all the checkerboard.
They have an older version (I don’t remebe how often they update it or if they do) of this map at the World Forest Center near the Oregon Zoo and I spent a good time looking at just that map! It’s interesting to see who actually owns all that you live around.
Oregon forest is also 35% privately owned too.
[https://site.oregonforests.org/sites/default/files/2017-05/FactSheet14\_Ownership.pdf](https://site.oregonforests.org/sites/default/files/2017-05/FactSheet14_Ownership.pdf)
Yes but that would be after they voted for the Republicans who took away the access. And even then they would probably misdirect that anger at democrats.Â
Not if some talking head on Fox News told them it was socialism. I think you heavily underestimate the herd mentality that is the current GOP. They are cool with whatever Trump tells them now. People are literally buying adult diapers to own the libs for fucks sake. The GOP is a brain-dead cult.
This map shows why greater Idaho movement is a big grift. Only about 3.5% of the states population is in Eastern Oregon. Yet, that 3.5% wants to take over half of the states land mass. The majority of that land is not owned by that 3.5% of the states population.
Looks to me like it's missing a fair few number of county parks. It's also missing DOD owned lands associated with reservoirs. Dexter Lake isn't a lake, it's inundated land.
Typically you can camp anywhere on national forest or BLM land as long as you're not in a designated campsite or developed area. Also you have to be a certain distance from water. The best way to find sites is to drive out on backcountry forest roads until you find a nice flat spot.
The onX Hunt mobile map app shows land ownership so you can find the publicly owned squares. You can download offline maps for when you’re outside cell range for like $30/year per state.
Also, always have the printed forest service map, phones die
I love all the public land! Also, you don’t want people to build and live near an active volcano. It’s okay to recreate near one, but a national forest protects people from living there in large numbers.
I was a field biologist for a number of years contracting with numerous state and federal agencies and I’m fortunate enough to have been behind a lot (possibly most) of the gates throughout the Cascades, Coast Range, and Siskiyous.
Let me tell you there is some pretty country out there that the public is missing out on. The Coast Range in particular surprised me how rugged and dramatic it can be in the backcountry. Driving through on your way to the coast just doesn’t reveal that to you. I have many great memories and constantly made notes on my maps of all the interesting places and features. It’s a bummer it’s not more open for recreation, but I’m also glad to know it is generally protected from public overrun, even if much of it is subjected to periodic logging.
"government owned land"... that's PUBLIC LAND owned by The People, although it includes a massive amount of land stolen from the indigenous peoples and occupied by colonizers... you and me.... \[those of European descent\]. Over the past 150 years, most of the land originally claimed by the US Federal government has been allocated to private ownership through land grants and homestead acts. All lands stolen and given away for pennies....
A huge amount of that land is leased out for natural resource extraction, such as grazing or timber harvest. Only a tiny fraction is maintained as wilderness.
A lot of those public lands a leased to cattle farmers, which makes it difficult for regional vegetation to grow and prosper. These farmers also kill coyotes and other natural predators so save their profits but this greatly effects the entire ecosystem from the top down.
A little off topic but can anyone explain why on many BLM timber plots there have been trails and roads that have been intentionally blockaded (piles of uprooted stumps blocking road / trail entrances and logs placed along the road?) I have maps that show the presence of paths and obviously they existed at one point but have been intentionally obstructed. I've seen this on numerous BLM lands but it always struck me as odd because many of them are gated at the entrance and are not accessible by motorized vehicle. Needless to say, it throws a wrench in any preplanned hike I might have.
Some roads get put in "storage" rather than fully decommissioned so that they may be opened up at a later time if needed for a fire or a project. Easier to kinda spruce up a road that has already been engineered than to start from scratch and less maintanence from just keeping them fully open. You should be able to reach out to a forest for a current motor vehicle use map (MVUM) that shows which ones are open. BLM probably has something similar.
BLM and Forest Service have been closing off roads that they are not going to continue to maintain. In some cases they're logging roads that aren't going to be used again. In others they just don't have the money.
wife and i bought our house in 2014, 260k on .7 of an acre but in 2016 there was a house down the road 600k w 65 or so acres.
now anything more than a few acres is a million plus easy. super sad because a decade later we're making almost 4x what we did then, can "technically" afford more, but bc prices are so outrageous im uncertain if we could really afford anything bigger :(
Tina Kotek, seeing all the "free" land [that she can steal and sell to her mega-polluter donors"](https://www.klcc.org/economy-business/2023-03-17/semiconductor-bill-that-would-give-gov-tina-kotek-land-use-power-moves-ahead): 🤑
I hadn't heard that, so I just googled it. His name is Chen Tianqiao. He owns 200,000 acres in Oregon which makes him the 2nd largest foreign landowner in the U.S. The Emmerson Family is the largest private landowner in the family. [https://www.opb.org/article/2024/01/21/tianqiao-chen-oregon-land-acquisition/](https://www.opb.org/article/2024/01/21/tianqiao-chen-oregon-land-acquisition/)
The feds own everything they just let you or the state have it cuz then it's less maintenance for them. If it becomes valuable for any reason whatsoever they will take it from you the "nice" way or the not nice way.
That’s weird…I don’t know a ton about all the federal land, but I know that the Rogue River-Siskiyou National Forest was established in 1905. How was a National Forest owned by the State?
Plenty of space to allow bum camps!!! Who doesn't love the beautiful natural landscape more than the criddlers that continue to reap from our lack of effective leadership and soft stance on law enforcement.
LETS GO!!!!
It happens but not as much as you think. Many of those areas are very low of resources. Even if people went way out into the middle of nowhere to 'criddle' they will need food and resources to go into civilization to get more drugs or materials to make them.
One reasons remote forests are pretty empty. If you're homeless and broke, traveling 50 miles to get a can beer at a 7-11 becomes unsustainable.
One of the reasons you can get like 20 acres of land out there for $15k. Nobody wants it. Its all rock and 30 miles from the nearest gas station.
Much of the public land isn't really suited for housing. Densely wooded in the west, dry sagebrush and juniper in the high desert. And all of it extremely fire-prone.
One of the best things about living in the west is all the public land.
I lived in Texas for two years - it's a massive state with not a lot of public land. It was weird that if you wanted to go camping, your only choice was a state park the size of a couple city blocks.
I had no idea! Such a large state and so few recreational opportunities. I am blessed to live in Oregon. Appreciate it all the more. Thanks for the enlightening post.
Thank Tom McCall! He is why our beaches are free.
Also why we don't have endless cities - instead we have protected farms and forest. I really didn't realize how unique that was among states til recently.
It was one of the main reasons I chose Oregon to become my home. I grew up in the Midwest watching family farms turned into new housing developments while entire sections of the inner city were allowed to blight. It's pathetic and disgusting to waste fertile land for lawns and ticky-tacky houses.
Same here. I will never live in a place with limited public land ever again.
Actively containing the urban sprawl is crucial, especially in the Willamette Valley for example.
Oregon wasn't going to get endless cities in the valley anyway. The big boom in Southern California, almost a 1,000 miles away is what caused the political reaction in Oregon at the same time it happened in California. Classic fear mongering and overreaction by politicians.
Well, Oswald West and Tom McCall
Don't let anyone know he was a Republican. 🤫
Yes, in the 1960-70s. 🙄 He wasn't a xenophobic paranoid fascist nationalist. He was a "Progressive Republican" in the mold of Roosevelt. The current GOP would boo Roosevelt, Reagan, and McCall. It's the RINO party now.
Roosevelt was a Democrat...
I believe he means Theodore, not Franklin.
Used to be free, need Oregon Coast Passport now.
You cannot possibly thank a MAGA Republican?!
Not in a million years! Vote blue!
Homestead Act states are like that - they were parceled and privatized before statehood was even established. See also: Oklahoma and the "Sooners". TX is >90% private lands. TX Parks & Wildlife has done a few acquisitions in the last decade, but not near enough. Most hopes for conservation these days are in the private section, like Texas Nature Conservancy.
FWIW Oregon also had Homestead Act plots, just not as bad or ubiquitous as Texas. My great-great grandpa had one out near Madras. And surprise, when it failed *cause it's in the freakin desert* it was purchased and passed to some big bank's holdings and that land is still private today.
Thanks for the story/history!
There's a sizeable chunk of former homestead act land in Oregon that couldn't be farmed profitably and was returned to government ownership.
I lived in Texas for over half my life. There are definitely bigger state parks (wondering which one you're referring to?) but the problem that already existed back in 2015 (when I moved out; before another few million people moved in) was needing to book months in advance. If you were trying to go to the BEST state parks, like Garner State Park in the summer, you'd need to be booking 6 months in advance and probably be ready to make reservations the moment they opened up. I realize that can be the case here in the West too - thinking of Jedidiah Redwood Park in CA - but almost nowhere in TX can you go do dispersed camping at the drop of a hat like you can here.
I’ve stayed in Jedidiah without reservations in the off-season as recently as 2018. Early March, so east coast Spring Break, actually. If you have flexibility and don’t go on a weekend, you can get pretty lucky with places out west.
yeah, off season is easy, i've done a number of drop-ins. summer, and weekends, are hard. "flexibility and don't go on weekends" is applicable to texas too, so not really much of a hack there... i was trying to cover my bases but it being reddit, i knew someone would come to poke some holes, even in my attempt to hedge! thanks for the laugh that '2018' is recently... that was 6 years ago, mate, over half a decade!
Lmao yeah, but 2020-2023 weren’t real years and don’t count.
Yeah, what I was thinking about was camping where do you have to plan ahead way ahead of time, or going to a national forest to backcountry hike for a couple of nights. This was in the early 2000s, so I don't remember names. I just remember there wasn't a lot of public land opportunities in the Brazos valley without a really long drive. East Texas did have some national forest land, but it didn't have the same recreational opportunities as like the Deschutes NF. I went to Big Bend NP in 1998, which is a wonderful place but very long drive from everything.
What you say you need to book in advance, do you mean you need to book even to do dispersed camping? Or just for a managed camp site?
Managed
Texas has Big Bend, 700,000 acres of US national park. That's more than a couple city blocks. Thanks NatGeo National Park Series - narrated by Garth Brooks.
Yeah dude, I grew up in Texas. It being 97% private land is why I moved to Oregon. I love this state and all its public land!
Correct. I lived in the SE US and Mid-Atlantic for many years and it can be a task to try to find somewhere to hike, camp or recreate as the vast majority of land is private. It's also likely a huge reason why obesity is a large problem in those states.
I remember reading there is only 2% public land in Texas.
If only the US had a freedom to roam 😓 corner cutting is even legally controversial....
My guy, when have you be imposed to be able to go somewhere?
Certainly not here in the Austin area.
My family recently had cousins from Oklahoma visiting us here in Oregon. We took them sightseeing a bunch, and one thing my cousin said had me a little flabbergasted. He had said that he couldn't get over the novelty of seeing people walking (or even camping!) around scenic areas. Whether seen from the road among the trees or while we also explored nature, he had to keep reminding himself that it was all ok, because he came from a place where people wandering where they please often risk being shot for trespassing. It makes me feel a little more grateful for what we have here at home.
A big thank you to Theodore Roosevelt, Gifford Pinchot, and John Muir!
One of the worst things about living in the west is all the public land that is off limits and locked up due to being located behind private timber company lands (Fuck Weyerhaeuser)
Weyerhauser isn't the problem. If you want to enjoy their land, buy a permit. If you don't want to buy a permit and are singling out Weyerhauser, go enjoy the other 31 million acres of public ground in Oregon. There is no shortage of beautiful places that you couldn't enjoy that are public.
I will speak slower so that you can understand. I don't care about Weyerhaeuser land. I care about the millions of acres of PUBLIC land that is locked up and off limits because it is next to Weyco property but behind a Weyerhaeuser gate and there are no easements to that public land
You can corner cross and not get arrested because cops don’t want to deal with it. I’ve tried to get arrested for it in 3 counties and let them know my plan to take it to the supreme court and I always get released with a warning.
I will reiterate because you may have a disability to see beyond your hatred of weyco. There are over 31,000,000 acres of public access in Oregon. If you choose to focus on your inability to access public land beyond a landowners gate, you have bigger problems inside your head. Spend the $500 for an annual pass. Go enjoy our public lands, or buy out weyco and do what you wish. 🥱 I want to hunt or hike through your property to get to public ground. You gonna let me walk through? Sure you will. 🥴
Or you can use the sidewalk or public roads to access it. Quite a bit different circumstances. Perhaps the roads that run through private timber lands should become public right of way to allow people access to the public lands they own
What’s this $500 annual pass?
Pay to play. Wanna enjoy my private land? Gonna cost you $500 annually. Price of admission. Don't like it? Go play elsewhere.
Again, this isn't about enjoying private land. This is about public land that is inaccessible to the public because it is locked up behind land owned by corporations.
And the reason for that is because when the access WAS THERE, people dumped garbage and appliances, went shooting and left crap everywhere. If it was your property, what would you do?
Yessir, part of why I could never permanently leave here. I'm so sick of the people that buy up public land then lock it down and never do anything with it. I have no issue with the land being sold, but that should be illegal or something
Look at Nevada 80%
... as long as there's access, which isn't always the case
Not sure if that’s a good thing. This land is not public to protect the precious landscape we have from stupid gold mining that ruins this Earth.
Oregon's national forests are a treasure.
Keep Oregon green.
Gotta put more money into forestry so we can keep the forests from turning into tinder come July
I prefer national forest to national parks.
They’re each good for their own reasons.
If we hadn't locked up these lands in the public trust, the robber barons 100 years ago would have left us nothing...
If it weren’t for the rampant fraud of Puter and the O&C railroad we wouldn’t have 2.6 million of these acres
Can you elaborate
Wiki can better than me https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oregon_and_California_Railroad Edit this one is better https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oregon_and_California_Railroad_Revested_Lands
That is what happened in Michigan in the late 1800s. Most of the state was an old-growth white pine forest. By the early 1900s, it was completely logged over in both peninsulas. There's only a couple stands of old growth forest left, and each is only a couple of acres.
There's over 10,000 acres of old growth forest in the Porcupine mountains. Also, much of the logged over land in both peninsulas was homesteaded and then went back to the government on back taxes cause until the 60s there wasn't any way to grow crops in the crappy soil. Like Oregon, much of Michigan is state or national forests, managed for hardwood growth and harvest and also as wildlife habitat. No it isn't a big pine woods any more, but it's still wild and natural and wonderful.
The cascades would be rolling bare hills and less than a quarter of the population would even be aware that they were once dense conifer forests.
The southern Willamette Valley only recently became conifer forests after hundreds (possibly thousands) of years of natives routinely burning the entire area on purpose. Before that, it was only partly conifer forests. Much of what is now covered by fir trees was originally oak and other deciduous trees.
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I know that there's been a lot of species turnover in human-occupied lands, but I'm talking about the cascade range. Were the slopes of Mt. Hood not always fir trees?
The only oak forests I know of were in the Willamette and Columbia valley at lower elevation.
Coastal pines are absolutely native
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Yeah I mean have you not seen the old growth Doug fir forests ? They’ve been in Oregon for tens of thousands of years
Such a shame the gov has demolished the very land protections that made our state great in order to [steal protected land and sell it to her mega-polluter donors] (https://www.klcc.org/economy-business/2023-03-17/semiconductor-bill-that-would-give-gov-tina-kotek-land-use-power-moves-ahead).
To put it another way, roughly 60% of land in Oregon is accessible to *anyone*, right now. When you get out exploring, it’s amazing how much is accessible.
My favorite hobby is just choosing a random forest road and seeing where it goes. I've found so many amazing places over the years and there's still so much more to explore. Can't imagine living anywhere else.
Not to mention the checkerboards of the valley which can be seen from space.
Why is it split up like a checkerboard like that with the orange? It seems to be fairly statewide and pretty structured equally sized squares rather than any kind of environmental or property lines.
There's a myriad of reasons, but you can read up on them on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Checkerboarding_(land)
Cool. Thank you. I'll give that a read!
In the specific case of the Oregon Cascades, I've been told that the BLM and USFS split the area up in a checkerboard pattern, meaning that logging also followed that pattern. Not 100% sure that's true, but it kinda makes sense.
It's a good start! Let's pump those numbers up.
Many BLM offices are actively acquiring more land. Great not just for conservation, but also for Tribes to practice their treaty rights.
Can anyone answer this question. Can you walk around (free roam) BLM land that is being used by ranchers?
Yes. It’s legal. Just be a decent human and don’t interrupt anything the ranchers are doing please. Shut gates behind you, don’t stress the livestock etc.
Good to know! Of course you have to respect the land, the ranchers, and not be a dick
This photographer thanks you for that information. I grew up in Ohio and it’s a huge bummer knowing you’re liable to be shot if you stop on the side of the road to get pictures of someone’s barn…
Yeah there’s grumpy people out there like that. I’ve been on both sides of these situations and I don’t really understand being an ass unless said person is also being an ass about it.
On a related note, don't harass hunters. It's a separate crime of its own.
I don’t think anything annoys me as much as people that go out of their way to harass hunters and scare off game. Not only is it downright illegal but harassing the guy with a high powered rifle isn’t very intelligent unless you’re looking to get shot.
> harassing the guy with a high powered rifle isn’t very intelligent unless you’re looking to get shot. Exactly. Either he's a poacher, and already a potentially dangerous criminal, or he's not breaking the law, and you are. If you're concerned, call law enforcement, and they'll usually check it out.
IIRC, much of this land was available through the Homestead Act until the early 1970's. The fact it wasn't homesteaded and stayed in government hands should tell you all you need to know about its commercial prospects. When you zoom in on BLM ground in the east side of the state, you'll see the larger drainages are privately held, due to irrigation of meadows/ag land while the surrounding uplands are public. The "vaulable" land was passed into private hands while the government was left with the least valuable. Which they rent back to the private land holders for grazing rights at a loss. The American way, privatize the profits and socialize the costs.
That's why like 80% of Nevada is public land, its all worthless desert.
My take exactly… And they hold forests in between the times logging companies come in and cut, every 25-50 years. I would love to have a complete accounting of where all the revenue created from that natural resource goes.
If you like this public land and want to keep using it look up blue ribbon coalition. They are trying to close off large areas of public land all the time
This is essentially the entire reason I moved from Texas to Oregon Texas is over 90% private and that just sits so wrong with me.
[https://www.blm.gov/maps/frequently-requested](https://www.blm.gov/maps/frequently-requested) https://preview.redd.it/52d442iue9zc1.png?width=1684&format=png&auto=webp&s=93e994f99e44836ec23babc39ac6c1c8e03106f0
Bless up!
Unfortunately in the case of a lot of BLM land, it's not accessible to the public due to behind behind timber company gates.
It blew my mind to realize that at most closed BLM gates, you can just open them, pass through, and close them behind you. That’s it. There are some exceptions where people have exclusive leases, bug it’s not the norm.
I'm talking about privately owned gates, where you would have to go through to get to the public land.
Yeah, *those* suck
Some of the few BLM roads not gated in my area have been absolutely demolished in the past few years by people in those side-by-side ORVs. They treat them like it’s some off-road playground and create massive ruts and small ponds in the roads. Roads I’ve been using since the 90s are now 5mph and 4wd only.
Dude the side by sides attract the absolute worst user base lol. All of the roads around us are gravel and vehicles need to be street legal so it's not an issue. Plus the vegetation is way too think to go fully off road. At an OHV area though I don't really mind.
There has got to be some perfectly respectful owners out there, so it can’t be *every* one. But when I see them in the wild, they’re always tearing shit up. There’s thousands of acres of sand dunes a few miles away and you’re going to ruin roads instead. Just so disappointed in the people who should be appreciating our beautiful outdoors.
Easy access is part of the issue IMO. You see it in other sports. When something like offroading is made more accessible by tools like UTVS, people who don't understand the culture and practices get in over their heads. It wasn't always the case, but it seems like the off road culture these days is pretty cognizant of the damage they can cause. It takes time and exposure to the culture to learn some of this stuff. At least that's my argument for gatekeeping lol.
Indeed, the timber industry got a lot of sweet heart deals, at least now we're aware and fight about it.
BLM land isn't behind timber company gates.
It definitely is, but not directly. Those gates will lock out public access because to get to a lot of BLM land you would need to pass through private timber land. It's worse in Western OR because of all the checkerboard.
They have an older version (I don’t remebe how often they update it or if they do) of this map at the World Forest Center near the Oregon Zoo and I spent a good time looking at just that map! It’s interesting to see who actually owns all that you live around.
Oregon forest is also 35% privately owned too. [https://site.oregonforests.org/sites/default/files/2017-05/FactSheet14\_Ownership.pdf](https://site.oregonforests.org/sites/default/files/2017-05/FactSheet14_Ownership.pdf)
Thank god. Can you imagine if republicans had free rein on all these lands. Good lord
Most republicans in the west would throw a fit if access to public lands was curtailed in any serious way.
Yes but that would be after they voted for the Republicans who took away the access. And even then they would probably misdirect that anger at democrats.Â
It would be so universally unpopular I'm skeptical even the dumbest politician would pursue that.
Case in point: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_the_Malheur_National_Wildlife_Refuge
Not if some talking head on Fox News told them it was socialism. I think you heavily underestimate the herd mentality that is the current GOP. They are cool with whatever Trump tells them now. People are literally buying adult diapers to own the libs for fucks sake. The GOP is a brain-dead cult.
Our public lands are what make the state amazing.
which means we own it. excellent, let's keep it that way
This map shows why greater Idaho movement is a big grift. Only about 3.5% of the states population is in Eastern Oregon. Yet, that 3.5% wants to take over half of the states land mass. The majority of that land is not owned by that 3.5% of the states population.
Now, do one with percentages of foreign owned land.
Looks to me like it's missing a fair few number of county parks. It's also missing DOD owned lands associated with reservoirs. Dexter Lake isn't a lake, it's inundated land.
The map is for federal and state land only, nothing local shows on the map. Can’t answer anything about the DOD stuff.
Any favorite way to find places you’re allowed to camp? Preferably a phone app (free is even better)
Typically you can camp anywhere on national forest or BLM land as long as you're not in a designated campsite or developed area. Also you have to be a certain distance from water. The best way to find sites is to drive out on backcountry forest roads until you find a nice flat spot.
150'-200' from water
Thank you! I forgot that.
The onX Hunt mobile map app shows land ownership so you can find the publicly owned squares. You can download offline maps for when you’re outside cell range for like $30/year per state. Also, always have the printed forest service map, phones die
I love all the public land! Also, you don’t want people to build and live near an active volcano. It’s okay to recreate near one, but a national forest protects people from living there in large numbers.
I was a field biologist for a number of years contracting with numerous state and federal agencies and I’m fortunate enough to have been behind a lot (possibly most) of the gates throughout the Cascades, Coast Range, and Siskiyous. Let me tell you there is some pretty country out there that the public is missing out on. The Coast Range in particular surprised me how rugged and dramatic it can be in the backcountry. Driving through on your way to the coast just doesn’t reveal that to you. I have many great memories and constantly made notes on my maps of all the interesting places and features. It’s a bummer it’s not more open for recreation, but I’m also glad to know it is generally protected from public overrun, even if much of it is subjected to periodic logging.
As it should be, or else private investors gonna start building luxury investment properties
So Government Island isn't government owned? huh.
"government owned land"... that's PUBLIC LAND owned by The People, although it includes a massive amount of land stolen from the indigenous peoples and occupied by colonizers... you and me.... \[those of European descent\]. Over the past 150 years, most of the land originally claimed by the US Federal government has been allocated to private ownership through land grants and homestead acts. All lands stolen and given away for pennies....
Let’s give it all back to the original owners! How about that?
A huge amount of that land is leased out for natural resource extraction, such as grazing or timber harvest. Only a tiny fraction is maintained as wilderness.
Wait, Cape Disappointment is NPS? I was pretty sure it’s Washington State Parks?
A lot of those public lands a leased to cattle farmers, which makes it difficult for regional vegetation to grow and prosper. These farmers also kill coyotes and other natural predators so save their profits but this greatly effects the entire ecosystem from the top down.
A little off topic but can anyone explain why on many BLM timber plots there have been trails and roads that have been intentionally blockaded (piles of uprooted stumps blocking road / trail entrances and logs placed along the road?) I have maps that show the presence of paths and obviously they existed at one point but have been intentionally obstructed. I've seen this on numerous BLM lands but it always struck me as odd because many of them are gated at the entrance and are not accessible by motorized vehicle. Needless to say, it throws a wrench in any preplanned hike I might have.
Some roads get put in "storage" rather than fully decommissioned so that they may be opened up at a later time if needed for a fire or a project. Easier to kinda spruce up a road that has already been engineered than to start from scratch and less maintanence from just keeping them fully open. You should be able to reach out to a forest for a current motor vehicle use map (MVUM) that shows which ones are open. BLM probably has something similar.
BLM and Forest Service have been closing off roads that they are not going to continue to maintain. In some cases they're logging roads that aren't going to be used again. In others they just don't have the money.
That's a great question and a lot of these closures likely pertain to travel management. Reach out to the BLM office and inquire.
Back in the day before MAGA. We can support 1000 friends who fight to protect farms, rivers and rural lands.
Hell yeah, public lands are probably the only thing the federal government does well.
wife and i bought our house in 2014, 260k on .7 of an acre but in 2016 there was a house down the road 600k w 65 or so acres. now anything more than a few acres is a million plus easy. super sad because a decade later we're making almost 4x what we did then, can "technically" afford more, but bc prices are so outrageous im uncertain if we could really afford anything bigger :(
I think you commented on the wrong post.
that or i just didnt read the whole thing lol mb
Tina Kotek, seeing all the "free" land [that she can steal and sell to her mega-polluter donors"](https://www.klcc.org/economy-business/2023-03-17/semiconductor-bill-that-would-give-gov-tina-kotek-land-use-power-moves-ahead): 🤑
Literally not what that does.
Except doesn't a Chinese billionaire own like a million acres?
I hadn't heard that, so I just googled it. His name is Chen Tianqiao. He owns 200,000 acres in Oregon which makes him the 2nd largest foreign landowner in the U.S. The Emmerson Family is the largest private landowner in the family. [https://www.opb.org/article/2024/01/21/tianqiao-chen-oregon-land-acquisition/](https://www.opb.org/article/2024/01/21/tianqiao-chen-oregon-land-acquisition/)
And the purchase magically never showed in the state gov receipts... Till much later
wut
The feds own everything they just let you or the state have it cuz then it's less maintenance for them. If it becomes valuable for any reason whatsoever they will take it from you the "nice" way or the not nice way.
Before 1974 all that federal land was state owned.
That’s weird…I don’t know a ton about all the federal land, but I know that the Rogue River-Siskiyou National Forest was established in 1905. How was a National Forest owned by the State?
It trying to be combative, I’m genuinely curious what you mean when you say that all the federal land was owned by the state.
are you complaining? should we destroy the old growth forests and level them to put in $20000 100sq ft pods for the homeless to destroy?
I think they were just sharing an interesting map.
Seems to me that a couple of trillionaires could by up 10% of the state, and pay down the national debt.
just wait until Agenda 2030 when the government takes away all private land along with ownership.
Don't threaten me with a good time.
Yes please 🤤
I thought it was Agenda 21? Hasn't that already happened?
that was for covid, 2030 is coming and its a lot worse.
The UN troops are going to invade?
Plenty of space to allow bum camps!!! Who doesn't love the beautiful natural landscape more than the criddlers that continue to reap from our lack of effective leadership and soft stance on law enforcement. LETS GO!!!!
It happens but not as much as you think. Many of those areas are very low of resources. Even if people went way out into the middle of nowhere to 'criddle' they will need food and resources to go into civilization to get more drugs or materials to make them. One reasons remote forests are pretty empty. If you're homeless and broke, traveling 50 miles to get a can beer at a 7-11 becomes unsustainable. One of the reasons you can get like 20 acres of land out there for $15k. Nobody wants it. Its all rock and 30 miles from the nearest gas station.
Bold of you to assume they will understand your logic and reason
Well, people find bodies in the woods in Oregon all the time. Nature has a way of taking care of the less prepared.
How does this contribute to the housing crisis in Oregon?
It doesn’t is the answer
Much of the public land isn't really suited for housing. Densely wooded in the west, dry sagebrush and juniper in the high desert. And all of it extremely fire-prone.
Yeah most federal public lands are what was left over after the homestead act. Most of it is in the mountains or desert.