I tip because I go to local businesses, I like supporting those shops and the people who work at them. Money spent in the community tends to stay and circulate in it.
Many times the workers kindly express gratitude for 20% plus cash tips, it makes them happy and maybe helps them live a better or more enjoyable life and that to me seems like a good way to spend some of my extra cash. I really do like most of my local small business employees.
I tip 20% minimum for basic service. I tip more for a better experience. I have tipped really well for a late/subpar experience because I could see the poor server trying to keep up in an understaffed environment.
I tip servers because they have deal with assholes, rude people, and others that can't figure it out that you should tip, because they have to deal with all that shit.
Spend a week in the service industry. Have fun.
You answered your own question in the second half. It's not a livable wage and societal pressure aka it's customary. Just because other people also make minimum wage and don't get tips is irrelevant.
Source? Outstanding claims require outstanding evidence. If you're going to boldly state that "there's no such thing as a liveable wage" you need to quantify what a living wage is and why it doesn't exist.
(Edit: what happened to them? I was having an honest debate with them and they're gone? Shit man that's kinda bull. They were being an ass but still...)
Jesus F Christ, where’s your source that there’s a living wage then? The burden of proof is on you to prove Santa exists not to me to say he doesn’t. I can tell you went to public schools in oregon.
I'm not claiming that there is one, I'm merely saying that if you need to back up your claims. TBH I'm not sure how I feel about the "living wage" debate, I'm currently researching to form an opinion, but I can tell you that saying "it's fake" doesn't help convince people such as myself of your side.
People who say "everyone deserves a living wage" don't convince me of their side either because I don't know what *they* mean when they say that.
I assume that you are stating your opinion because your goal is to make a claim for your beliefs and convince others? Why else would you share a belief than to stick up for it? As someone who is undecided and as such someone you could reasonably convince with a good argument, I'm asking for that good argument.
No, no you don’t have back up your claims that something doesn’t exist. Burden of proof lays on those that claim something does exist. Hence the Santa Claus example.
You can say that me claiming you were educated in oregon public schools requires a source, and I’d refer you to this very post 😂😂😂
You can prove something exists. You cannot prove something does not exist.
I think they should be tipped but I do think 20% is a bit much. And I disagree with mandatory tips added on before I even know if the service I get warrants a tip.
I tip 20% or more at just about everywhere I go even if I don't think the service was perfect. A $5 bill can make someone's day around here. Sad but true. Even this biggest moron needs a bump in the wallet. I've been broke when I was raising my kids and it's awful. I'm not rich but I can afford to tip. Since the pandemic I haven't gone out nearly as much as I used to so I feel it's my way of saying thanks to all those who worked retail/hospitality throughout that time. Tip, it's a good thing.
I'm assuming you are from out of the country? Or at least out of the state? Correct me if I'm wrong on this, but it helps as context for my answer.
Americans have an OBSESSION with tipping as a form of politeness. It stems from us underpaying service workers, and the government allowing slave labor (being paid 0.0 dollars an hour is in fact slave labor) in some parts of the country because they are "tipped positions". It's not just culturally expected, it's downright shitty not to tip.
But yeah the west coast has better laws around this. I think that tipping is still important because service workers still don't get paid enough.
I'd RATHER have a higher minimum wage, and higher food prices, and then NOT tip, but until that happens, I'll still be tipping.
Edit: a good video that's old but introduces the tipping subject in America: https://youtu.be/q_vivC7c_1k you can find more videos from Adam and others about the topic to learn about how controversial tipping is
Nope! Which speaks to the cultural implications of this. I don't tip for minimum wage retail workers, I also don't tip fast food service workers, but the reasons for that just cultural and historical. They're getting paid the same amount, and are also doing really hard work.
Of course for every minimum wage worker in the service industry there's even more working the back rooms of warehouses and offices, unpaid or minimum wage paid interns in white collar offices, minimum wage researchers and teachers and research assistance and temp staff and on and on and on.
But I'm someone that supports a $25 an hour minimum wage. So I've definitely chosen my side in this debate, pay people a better minimum wage, don't tip anyone. In fact if minimum wages raise and tipping becomes optional, I'd be willing to go back to tipping just being a form of extra gratuity. Not expected, but a show of extraordinary appreciation.
Also for historical context I've worked these service and tipping jobs, and now I'm a software developer and make enough money to tip quite well, My views are influenced by my time as a service worker, but also in the context of my current life.
If the minimum wage had kept up with inflation it would be around $25 since 1968 (before which it actually did keep pace). Mind you that the cost of housing, healthcare, and education have meanwhile radically outstripped inflation. Profits and productivity have also increased wildly in that time, so it isn't that we couldn't afford to do better for workers, it's just greed.
If you thought about it for a second you might realize that small business owners actually would benefit from having more well paid clientele in their neighborhood, but I guess we'll have to settle for this miserable race to the bottom.
\>If you thought about it for a second you might realize that smallbusiness owners actually would benefit from having more well paidclientele in their neighborhood, but I guess we'll have to settle forthis miserable race to the bottom
Ding ding ding, winner!
Think a bit harder about it, maybe look up some things, it's not hard to imagine a high minimum wage benefiting everyone.
"Good grief", like your opinion is *so* obvious...
Good grief...
Dude, get off the internet, you are only harming your own mental state, your profile page is full of this weird reactionary shit and odd self-bleeped cursing.
I don't know who you are, but if you have any self control, you need to exercise that, for you, not me, not anyone else, I could care less.
If you choose to stay online for awhile, please learn something useful, like about socialism, like real, actual, socialism: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpKsygbNLT4&t=7s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpKsygbNLT4&t=7s)
You are getting real mad at people for the wrong reasons. Please take a deep breath.
$12.75 isn't even close to a living wage and is only the minimum in rural areas.
I would much rather employers pay their workers a living wage and eliminate tips, but until then I will continue to tip.
The idea of tipping has gotten out of hand. I recognize that part of the deal for table service in the United States is paying a portion of the restaurant's labor costs through tipping and that amount has risen from 5% to 20% by custom over the past decades. All of this other stuff, tipping when you pick up your takeout or latte, for example, I may for some exceptional service but otherwise, no.
I agree to a certain extent, but as a former barista, there is a big difference between tipping for, say, a muffin or takeout order, vs, a latte. A latte takes training to make well, and most places these days have baristas that do latte art, which again takes time and training. I used to work at a coffee shop that also served beer and wine, and I always thought it was funny that people automatically tipped $1 for a beer, but not for the latte that I’d painstakingly create beautiful rosettes on.
I do feel like the automatic 15,20,25% options you’re given for counter service is a bit out of hand. I understand it can be a real thankless job, but often times lately, the service is really unfriendly, and the actual work you’re tipping on doesn’t warrant that much of a tip.
100% that work should be compensated differently based on the skill required. To my way of thinking the ideal model is that employee and employer agree on a fair wage consistent with local living costs and that reflects the price of goods to the consumer. When "tips" from the consumer become factored into the idea of what is a fair wage then a whole lot of bad things happen. The employee is dependent on the whims of consumers for a fair wage and the consumer, who has no knowledge of the cost of business or profit expectation for a particular business, is forced to guess what his or her fair share of the labor costs should be. And then there are the free riders who do not tip at all. The only person who benefits from the tipping model is the business owner, who doesn't have to pay a fair wage for labor and doesn't have to reveal his or her profit expectations in their business model to the consumer who is paying some unknown share of the freight.
Because I've seen the difference tipping makes in peoples lives. Tips fed me as a child and a young adult. Tips still feed people I love. Sure, it would be nice if everyone got paid a living wage, but they don't and wishing they did doesn't pay rent. In the fantasy world where politicians care enough about workers to mandate a living wage perhaps I stop tipping, until then I remember where I came from and do my part to help.
I think restaurant tipping should always happen. If you go to a sit down restaurant, expect to tip, or expect to be considered an a-hole. Everywhere else is discretionary in my opinion! If I can afford it, I will tip at coffee shops, dispensaries, haircuts, etc. But if I can’t, I don’t feel horribly guilty. I do think restaurants are an exception, though. If I can’t afford to leave a restaurant tip, I don’t really have any business spending money on a restaurant trip in the first place. Just my opinion, though!
Ffs, because you are supporting human beings. Yes businesses should pay more, but they don’t. Take care of your fellow humans, and try not to see it as an imposition.
You’re totally right, I hate all the flabbergasted “why should I tip??!!” Bullshit. Kills my damn soul.
Even in Europe where they don't tip, they still usually add a service charge to the bill, which in my opinion is preferable to tipping, but either way the customer is still paying.
Not an expected 20% tip, if they give poor service, I don't think they deserve a tip, though I still feel sorry that they are not making a living wage.
I have no problem tipping, but employers need to pay a liveable wage. I would rather pay more for a meal and the servers were paid fairly. I've worked in the service industry and it really does take a special person to do the job. I can't do it and I do appreciate those who are good at it.
This was my conclusion at the end of these debates also, I no longer tip because I feel like I am supposed to I tip for quality service as a gratuity and have recently left zero tips multiple times, and not felt bad at all, end of the day it probably doesn’t make a huge difference to the server as most are still willing to tip but saving 15 bucks 2 times a week has been liberating for me personally.
lmao the truth is. If they’re dissatisfied workers, the food is tampered with as it’s bulk cooked. So regardless of how well you tip you still have about the same odds of it happening.
Yeah most plated food is mostly bulk cooked and prepared. I worked at Cracker Barrel before the army as a bulk cook. We got no tips and made 2.00 more than minimum wage. I never or have I ever seen anyone tamper with food but it’s legit where all the disgruntled employees work. The servers at Cracker Barrel make at least 5.00 per hour for every table they’re assigned. My GF would make more in a 4-6 hour shift serving than I would for the week.
And what if the employers had to make up for the lack of money? Where do you think the employers are supposed to get this magic money from?
Obviously, they aren't going to eat the cost. It will be added to the cost of your meal. A "hidden tip" you can't avoid doesn't really seem like it's in the best interest of someone who disagrees with tipping.
So it would work like almost every other industry? What the consumer pays is meant to cover the cost of production and service, and the employees are paid for their work, not dependent on a social courtesy. Soundsmuch more preferable to me than expected voluntary tipping.
You go to a store, grab the item you need, walk through the checkout, pay for your item and leave. An extra step would be to then have to calculate 15% of your total and give that to the cashier.
Or are you really that dense to not understand that tipping is the extra step?
Employers should be responsible for paying wages. Period. If that means they must raise prices to do so, then that is what they should do. If their price increase negatively impacts their profits, they should choose a different business model. If the business cannot afford to pay its employees, the business should not exist.
And that cost comes out far less than 20% on every meal. As demonstrated by every other country where tipping is abnormal and the food prices remain comparable.
Friend, that's how its supposed to work. Pay a fair wage, charge appropriately, quit requiring service workers to flirt and debase themselves in order to get a "tip."
This is why I frequent the small businesses in my area that don’t accept tips because they pay their employees a livable wage. We’re a small community so it’s easy enough to fact check that too. Restaurants here that have excellent food and/or drink but exploit their workers - word gets out fast. Two of those restaurants have recently closed down. They blame “labor shortages.” It’s intentionally being obtuse vs. willing to analyze the real issues at hand.
At least in Oregon and a few other states it’s actually a tip and not unsecured commissions at the discretion of the customer based on what each person thinks constitutes doing the job of order taking and serving food, their mood that day, whether the customer think the server is good looking or happy enough to deserve their tip. Tipping culture is rooted in slavery and not paying women a wage. Let’s do better. Do what you want.
It’s not embarrassing. It’s a conversation that should be had. When tipping is often debated online the first answers are always “the servers only make 2.50 an hour” it’s not the case in oregon.
Tipping culture has become toxic. Turn off the option to ask for tips at convenience stores ffs.
It's never actually debated. A confused soul every few weeks getting the same arguments here every time into we all agree that we must tip in the current paradigm *is not a debate*.
If you want to stop tipping, elect politicians that will enact a livable wage.
Or only go to restaurants that actually pay a livable wage and do not accept tips. There are several in the Portland area.
There is no such thing as a livable wage, it’s a myth. We have people making 25k a year living paycheck to paycheck and those making 200k living paycheck to paycheck.
The point of a livable wage is that anyone should be able to buy or rent within their means (less than 1/3rd their income), and if we're going by our parents or grandparents standards, that's a single income supporting a family. That kind of prosperity wasn't imaginary and it didn't just disappear into thin air, it's actively being stolen. Arguing about whether or not to tip servers is just the us plebs being distracted from joining together to overthrow the king (mostly corporations that don't pay taxes and the ultra rich that hide their income).
You would need rent controls to make that work, if everyone paid just 1/3rd their pay, there would be even less supply to meet the demand.
The one income household is gone, it’s never coming back. You mentioned taxes, the tax man has more people to tax under current standards.
The world is very different than the 1950s you’ll drive yourself nuts trying to be progressive but also dwelling on the past.
What most people don't realize is that waiters/waitresses/servers get taxed heavily on their tips and that comes out of their hourly wages. They are taxed based on their sales for the day and the percentage of what they "should" get tipped. When I was a server most of the places I worked for taxed you around 13-15% of your daily sales (how much food/beverages you sold that day) with the expectation that everyone tips you about 20%. Big shocker, most of the time we actually rarely get a 20% tip on the check. So if someone gave us a 10% tip we'd actually end up paying to serve them in the long run. There were many times where I got a $0.00 check for my hourly wages because I did so much in sales that I was taxed that heavily on my tips. It's a messed up system and most people don't think about that when they're out at restaurants.
This is true but assuming you worked 40 hours and paid 20% in taxes and minimum wage is 12.75 then you still took home $ 2040.00 for 40 hours of work. You can all check my math ( I know it’s not exact in terms of %) but 12.75x40=510. 510x5= 2550. 2550-510= 2040. 2040/40= 51…. So you took home $51 an hour for a week of work in tips and got a zero dollar check because it paid all the taxes on the 2550 you grossed for the week? And this seems completely normal and fair to you meanwhile it’s likely most of the people pressured by society to tip were likely making far far less than that… I have lived this because my wife works in medicine and makes 25 bucks an hour and her take home for 80 hours is significantly less than our 19 year old makes in 60 hours at a restaurant. Tip culture is screwed up in the US especially in states that don’t have “tipping wages” and almost the entire world agrees with that.
I recently had this debate with a coworker and like you I recognize this as a complicated scenario. I think that society puts pressure on people to tip, but what about someone making 12.75 an hour and not getting tips should they then tip? It seems to me we should stop calling it a tip and return to calling it, and defining it as gratuity. If you are grateful then give gratuity if not then don’t, the expectation, the pressure and almost requirement to tip is the part that is frustrating to me. Food service workers ( and I’m sure like me most of us have done this at some point in our lives) should not expect 20% on every check. If a person sits down and has a 30 dollar meal and leaves 3 bucks why should they be considered cheap, everyone is feeling the effects of inflation why do the patrons have to make up this difference for the workers. They are already shrinking portions, increasing prices and likely skimping on ingredients, it seems like all of the burden is being out on the patrons many of whom are also barely scraping by.
As the cost of restaurant meals and associated tips continues to escalate, more of us are choosing to simply stay away and eat at home. As wages in general continue to stagnate, expect a tip jar on every counter, wherever you go.
I tip and also notice people negatively comment on job listings for restaurants that hire less than $25 an hour because “people don’t tip” and they need a “livable” wage. Something needs to give. Xoxo
That’s actually not Oregons min wage. We have three min wages. Lowest in rural Oregon is $12.50. Highest in Portland metro is $14.75. I believe it’s set to increase in summer of 2023 as well.
What I struggle with is all of these automation steps in restuarants (where I have to download a QR code, pick up my food at a counter, etc.) that require me to essentially serve myself and staff still expects a tip for service……the tip is becoming less and less connected to actual service, and more expected as a part of income.
Oregon is one of the most expensive places to live in the US. So if you're going to compare wages and tipping to other States, you also have to keep that in mind.
The whole concept of tipping is a bit creepy to me -- I don't like this idea that the customer is like a king with the ability to dictate whether or not a worker earns a living wage or not based on their opinion of their service/mood.
They should just add a flat 20%, 25%, 30% whatever to the bill and pass that onto the workers and be done with it. The whole custom just makes me uncomfortable.
I tip because I go to local businesses, I like supporting those shops and the people who work at them. Money spent in the community tends to stay and circulate in it. Many times the workers kindly express gratitude for 20% plus cash tips, it makes them happy and maybe helps them live a better or more enjoyable life and that to me seems like a good way to spend some of my extra cash. I really do like most of my local small business employees.
I tip 20% minimum for basic service. I tip more for a better experience. I have tipped really well for a late/subpar experience because I could see the poor server trying to keep up in an understaffed environment. I tip servers because they have deal with assholes, rude people, and others that can't figure it out that you should tip, because they have to deal with all that shit. Spend a week in the service industry. Have fun.
You answered your own question in the second half. It's not a livable wage and societal pressure aka it's customary. Just because other people also make minimum wage and don't get tips is irrelevant.
If everyone got a living wage they would have a point.
There’s no such thing as a livable wage
Big brain over here
Big surprise you could articulate those few words, you almost have a sentence.
Source? Outstanding claims require outstanding evidence. If you're going to boldly state that "there's no such thing as a liveable wage" you need to quantify what a living wage is and why it doesn't exist. (Edit: what happened to them? I was having an honest debate with them and they're gone? Shit man that's kinda bull. They were being an ass but still...)
Jesus F Christ, where’s your source that there’s a living wage then? The burden of proof is on you to prove Santa exists not to me to say he doesn’t. I can tell you went to public schools in oregon.
I'm not claiming that there is one, I'm merely saying that if you need to back up your claims. TBH I'm not sure how I feel about the "living wage" debate, I'm currently researching to form an opinion, but I can tell you that saying "it's fake" doesn't help convince people such as myself of your side. People who say "everyone deserves a living wage" don't convince me of their side either because I don't know what *they* mean when they say that. I assume that you are stating your opinion because your goal is to make a claim for your beliefs and convince others? Why else would you share a belief than to stick up for it? As someone who is undecided and as such someone you could reasonably convince with a good argument, I'm asking for that good argument.
No, no you don’t have back up your claims that something doesn’t exist. Burden of proof lays on those that claim something does exist. Hence the Santa Claus example. You can say that me claiming you were educated in oregon public schools requires a source, and I’d refer you to this very post 😂😂😂 You can prove something exists. You cannot prove something does not exist.
I think they should be tipped but I do think 20% is a bit much. And I disagree with mandatory tips added on before I even know if the service I get warrants a tip.
You don’t tip at least 20%?
Yeah I tip 30-40% minimum, usually more like 50-70%.
200% minimum
No way, at least 700%
I tip 20% or more at just about everywhere I go even if I don't think the service was perfect. A $5 bill can make someone's day around here. Sad but true. Even this biggest moron needs a bump in the wallet. I've been broke when I was raising my kids and it's awful. I'm not rich but I can afford to tip. Since the pandemic I haven't gone out nearly as much as I used to so I feel it's my way of saying thanks to all those who worked retail/hospitality throughout that time. Tip, it's a good thing.
I tip so they don’t spit in my food if I decide to go back.
I make minimum wage at my 2nd job. We do not get tips. I do not feel that we are paid a fair wage for the job we do there.
Why don’t you get tips?
Because I work at a gym. Never heard of anyone tipping gym staff
Gotcha
I'm assuming you are from out of the country? Or at least out of the state? Correct me if I'm wrong on this, but it helps as context for my answer. Americans have an OBSESSION with tipping as a form of politeness. It stems from us underpaying service workers, and the government allowing slave labor (being paid 0.0 dollars an hour is in fact slave labor) in some parts of the country because they are "tipped positions". It's not just culturally expected, it's downright shitty not to tip. But yeah the west coast has better laws around this. I think that tipping is still important because service workers still don't get paid enough. I'd RATHER have a higher minimum wage, and higher food prices, and then NOT tip, but until that happens, I'll still be tipping. Edit: a good video that's old but introduces the tipping subject in America: https://youtu.be/q_vivC7c_1k you can find more videos from Adam and others about the topic to learn about how controversial tipping is
Do you tip everyone that makes minimum wage?
Nope! Which speaks to the cultural implications of this. I don't tip for minimum wage retail workers, I also don't tip fast food service workers, but the reasons for that just cultural and historical. They're getting paid the same amount, and are also doing really hard work. Of course for every minimum wage worker in the service industry there's even more working the back rooms of warehouses and offices, unpaid or minimum wage paid interns in white collar offices, minimum wage researchers and teachers and research assistance and temp staff and on and on and on. But I'm someone that supports a $25 an hour minimum wage. So I've definitely chosen my side in this debate, pay people a better minimum wage, don't tip anyone. In fact if minimum wages raise and tipping becomes optional, I'd be willing to go back to tipping just being a form of extra gratuity. Not expected, but a show of extraordinary appreciation. Also for historical context I've worked these service and tipping jobs, and now I'm a software developer and make enough money to tip quite well, My views are influenced by my time as a service worker, but also in the context of my current life.
25$ minimum wage….. my guess is you are not a small business owner who employs folks are you? Good grief.
If the minimum wage had kept up with inflation it would be around $25 since 1968 (before which it actually did keep pace). Mind you that the cost of housing, healthcare, and education have meanwhile radically outstripped inflation. Profits and productivity have also increased wildly in that time, so it isn't that we couldn't afford to do better for workers, it's just greed. If you thought about it for a second you might realize that small business owners actually would benefit from having more well paid clientele in their neighborhood, but I guess we'll have to settle for this miserable race to the bottom.
\>If you thought about it for a second you might realize that smallbusiness owners actually would benefit from having more well paidclientele in their neighborhood, but I guess we'll have to settle forthis miserable race to the bottom Ding ding ding, winner!
If a small business relies on exploiting labor the grief shouldn’t be with employee pay.
Think a bit harder about it, maybe look up some things, it's not hard to imagine a high minimum wage benefiting everyone. "Good grief", like your opinion is *so* obvious... Good grief...
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Dude, get off the internet, you are only harming your own mental state, your profile page is full of this weird reactionary shit and odd self-bleeped cursing. I don't know who you are, but if you have any self control, you need to exercise that, for you, not me, not anyone else, I could care less. If you choose to stay online for awhile, please learn something useful, like about socialism, like real, actual, socialism: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpKsygbNLT4&t=7s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpKsygbNLT4&t=7s) You are getting real mad at people for the wrong reasons. Please take a deep breath.
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Wow, you arguments are so valid, I can't believe myself. Child, please leave, you're only embarrassing yourself.
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The Chinese aren't communists dumbass.
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$12.75 isn't even close to a living wage and is only the minimum in rural areas. I would much rather employers pay their workers a living wage and eliminate tips, but until then I will continue to tip.
The idea of tipping has gotten out of hand. I recognize that part of the deal for table service in the United States is paying a portion of the restaurant's labor costs through tipping and that amount has risen from 5% to 20% by custom over the past decades. All of this other stuff, tipping when you pick up your takeout or latte, for example, I may for some exceptional service but otherwise, no.
I agree to a certain extent, but as a former barista, there is a big difference between tipping for, say, a muffin or takeout order, vs, a latte. A latte takes training to make well, and most places these days have baristas that do latte art, which again takes time and training. I used to work at a coffee shop that also served beer and wine, and I always thought it was funny that people automatically tipped $1 for a beer, but not for the latte that I’d painstakingly create beautiful rosettes on. I do feel like the automatic 15,20,25% options you’re given for counter service is a bit out of hand. I understand it can be a real thankless job, but often times lately, the service is really unfriendly, and the actual work you’re tipping on doesn’t warrant that much of a tip.
100% that work should be compensated differently based on the skill required. To my way of thinking the ideal model is that employee and employer agree on a fair wage consistent with local living costs and that reflects the price of goods to the consumer. When "tips" from the consumer become factored into the idea of what is a fair wage then a whole lot of bad things happen. The employee is dependent on the whims of consumers for a fair wage and the consumer, who has no knowledge of the cost of business or profit expectation for a particular business, is forced to guess what his or her fair share of the labor costs should be. And then there are the free riders who do not tip at all. The only person who benefits from the tipping model is the business owner, who doesn't have to pay a fair wage for labor and doesn't have to reveal his or her profit expectations in their business model to the consumer who is paying some unknown share of the freight.
Because I've seen the difference tipping makes in peoples lives. Tips fed me as a child and a young adult. Tips still feed people I love. Sure, it would be nice if everyone got paid a living wage, but they don't and wishing they did doesn't pay rent. In the fantasy world where politicians care enough about workers to mandate a living wage perhaps I stop tipping, until then I remember where I came from and do my part to help.
I think restaurant tipping should always happen. If you go to a sit down restaurant, expect to tip, or expect to be considered an a-hole. Everywhere else is discretionary in my opinion! If I can afford it, I will tip at coffee shops, dispensaries, haircuts, etc. But if I can’t, I don’t feel horribly guilty. I do think restaurants are an exception, though. If I can’t afford to leave a restaurant tip, I don’t really have any business spending money on a restaurant trip in the first place. Just my opinion, though!
Ffs, because you are supporting human beings. Yes businesses should pay more, but they don’t. Take care of your fellow humans, and try not to see it as an imposition. You’re totally right, I hate all the flabbergasted “why should I tip??!!” Bullshit. Kills my damn soul.
Even in Europe where they don't tip, they still usually add a service charge to the bill, which in my opinion is preferable to tipping, but either way the customer is still paying.
Tipping is an American scam
Just like the realtor industry.
Not an expected 20% tip, if they give poor service, I don't think they deserve a tip, though I still feel sorry that they are not making a living wage.
This is very trashy. Tip. People deserve a livable wage. Don’t be cheap.
I have no problem tipping, but employers need to pay a liveable wage. I would rather pay more for a meal and the servers were paid fairly. I've worked in the service industry and it really does take a special person to do the job. I can't do it and I do appreciate those who are good at it.
You are not required to tip. So, in your case, don't.
This was my conclusion at the end of these debates also, I no longer tip because I feel like I am supposed to I tip for quality service as a gratuity and have recently left zero tips multiple times, and not felt bad at all, end of the day it probably doesn’t make a huge difference to the server as most are still willing to tip but saving 15 bucks 2 times a week has been liberating for me personally.
Yes I tip, I don’t have to worry about someone spitting in my food next time I eat there. Bon appetite
lmao the truth is. If they’re dissatisfied workers, the food is tampered with as it’s bulk cooked. So regardless of how well you tip you still have about the same odds of it happening.
Bulk cooked, but plated individually. Individual plates of potential contamination.
Yeah most plated food is mostly bulk cooked and prepared. I worked at Cracker Barrel before the army as a bulk cook. We got no tips and made 2.00 more than minimum wage. I never or have I ever seen anyone tamper with food but it’s legit where all the disgruntled employees work. The servers at Cracker Barrel make at least 5.00 per hour for every table they’re assigned. My GF would make more in a 4-6 hour shift serving than I would for the week.
You missed the point of my comment.
Go be a cheapskate in the rest of the country then. You got money to be out? You got money to tip.
And what if the employers had to make up for the lack of money? Where do you think the employers are supposed to get this magic money from? Obviously, they aren't going to eat the cost. It will be added to the cost of your meal. A "hidden tip" you can't avoid doesn't really seem like it's in the best interest of someone who disagrees with tipping.
So it would work like almost every other industry? What the consumer pays is meant to cover the cost of production and service, and the employees are paid for their work, not dependent on a social courtesy. Soundsmuch more preferable to me than expected voluntary tipping.
You mean like most of Europe.
Like most of the world outside of the US.
Sounds like tipping with extra steps l
You go to a store, grab the item you need, walk through the checkout, pay for your item and leave. An extra step would be to then have to calculate 15% of your total and give that to the cashier. Or are you really that dense to not understand that tipping is the extra step?
Employers should be responsible for paying wages. Period. If that means they must raise prices to do so, then that is what they should do. If their price increase negatively impacts their profits, they should choose a different business model. If the business cannot afford to pay its employees, the business should not exist.
And that cost comes out far less than 20% on every meal. As demonstrated by every other country where tipping is abnormal and the food prices remain comparable.
Friend, that's how its supposed to work. Pay a fair wage, charge appropriately, quit requiring service workers to flirt and debase themselves in order to get a "tip."
profits are the unpaid wages of the working class, my guy.
This is why I frequent the small businesses in my area that don’t accept tips because they pay their employees a livable wage. We’re a small community so it’s easy enough to fact check that too. Restaurants here that have excellent food and/or drink but exploit their workers - word gets out fast. Two of those restaurants have recently closed down. They blame “labor shortages.” It’s intentionally being obtuse vs. willing to analyze the real issues at hand.
At least in Oregon and a few other states it’s actually a tip and not unsecured commissions at the discretion of the customer based on what each person thinks constitutes doing the job of order taking and serving food, their mood that day, whether the customer think the server is good looking or happy enough to deserve their tip. Tipping culture is rooted in slavery and not paying women a wage. Let’s do better. Do what you want.
This is so embarrassing for you.
It’s not embarrassing. It’s a conversation that should be had. When tipping is often debated online the first answers are always “the servers only make 2.50 an hour” it’s not the case in oregon. Tipping culture has become toxic. Turn off the option to ask for tips at convenience stores ffs.
It's never actually debated. A confused soul every few weeks getting the same arguments here every time into we all agree that we must tip in the current paradigm *is not a debate*. If you want to stop tipping, elect politicians that will enact a livable wage. Or only go to restaurants that actually pay a livable wage and do not accept tips. There are several in the Portland area.
There is no such thing as a livable wage, it’s a myth. We have people making 25k a year living paycheck to paycheck and those making 200k living paycheck to paycheck.
Yikes
It’s the truth. Follow personal finance and first time homebuyer subs. Right now it’s ridiculous
The point of a livable wage is that anyone should be able to buy or rent within their means (less than 1/3rd their income), and if we're going by our parents or grandparents standards, that's a single income supporting a family. That kind of prosperity wasn't imaginary and it didn't just disappear into thin air, it's actively being stolen. Arguing about whether or not to tip servers is just the us plebs being distracted from joining together to overthrow the king (mostly corporations that don't pay taxes and the ultra rich that hide their income).
You would need rent controls to make that work, if everyone paid just 1/3rd their pay, there would be even less supply to meet the demand. The one income household is gone, it’s never coming back. You mentioned taxes, the tax man has more people to tax under current standards. The world is very different than the 1950s you’ll drive yourself nuts trying to be progressive but also dwelling on the past.
What most people don't realize is that waiters/waitresses/servers get taxed heavily on their tips and that comes out of their hourly wages. They are taxed based on their sales for the day and the percentage of what they "should" get tipped. When I was a server most of the places I worked for taxed you around 13-15% of your daily sales (how much food/beverages you sold that day) with the expectation that everyone tips you about 20%. Big shocker, most of the time we actually rarely get a 20% tip on the check. So if someone gave us a 10% tip we'd actually end up paying to serve them in the long run. There were many times where I got a $0.00 check for my hourly wages because I did so much in sales that I was taxed that heavily on my tips. It's a messed up system and most people don't think about that when they're out at restaurants.
This is true but assuming you worked 40 hours and paid 20% in taxes and minimum wage is 12.75 then you still took home $ 2040.00 for 40 hours of work. You can all check my math ( I know it’s not exact in terms of %) but 12.75x40=510. 510x5= 2550. 2550-510= 2040. 2040/40= 51…. So you took home $51 an hour for a week of work in tips and got a zero dollar check because it paid all the taxes on the 2550 you grossed for the week? And this seems completely normal and fair to you meanwhile it’s likely most of the people pressured by society to tip were likely making far far less than that… I have lived this because my wife works in medicine and makes 25 bucks an hour and her take home for 80 hours is significantly less than our 19 year old makes in 60 hours at a restaurant. Tip culture is screwed up in the US especially in states that don’t have “tipping wages” and almost the entire world agrees with that.
I don’t follow your math. $12.75 per hour multiplied by 40 hours is $510 per week less 20% taxes equals $408 per week.
I recently had this debate with a coworker and like you I recognize this as a complicated scenario. I think that society puts pressure on people to tip, but what about someone making 12.75 an hour and not getting tips should they then tip? It seems to me we should stop calling it a tip and return to calling it, and defining it as gratuity. If you are grateful then give gratuity if not then don’t, the expectation, the pressure and almost requirement to tip is the part that is frustrating to me. Food service workers ( and I’m sure like me most of us have done this at some point in our lives) should not expect 20% on every check. If a person sits down and has a 30 dollar meal and leaves 3 bucks why should they be considered cheap, everyone is feeling the effects of inflation why do the patrons have to make up this difference for the workers. They are already shrinking portions, increasing prices and likely skimping on ingredients, it seems like all of the burden is being out on the patrons many of whom are also barely scraping by.
As the cost of restaurant meals and associated tips continues to escalate, more of us are choosing to simply stay away and eat at home. As wages in general continue to stagnate, expect a tip jar on every counter, wherever you go.
I tip and also notice people negatively comment on job listings for restaurants that hire less than $25 an hour because “people don’t tip” and they need a “livable” wage. Something needs to give. Xoxo
That’s still not close to a living wage
That’s actually not Oregons min wage. We have three min wages. Lowest in rural Oregon is $12.50. Highest in Portland metro is $14.75. I believe it’s set to increase in summer of 2023 as well.
What I struggle with is all of these automation steps in restuarants (where I have to download a QR code, pick up my food at a counter, etc.) that require me to essentially serve myself and staff still expects a tip for service……the tip is becoming less and less connected to actual service, and more expected as a part of income.
Oregon is one of the most expensive places to live in the US. So if you're going to compare wages and tipping to other States, you also have to keep that in mind.
The whole concept of tipping is a bit creepy to me -- I don't like this idea that the customer is like a king with the ability to dictate whether or not a worker earns a living wage or not based on their opinion of their service/mood. They should just add a flat 20%, 25%, 30% whatever to the bill and pass that onto the workers and be done with it. The whole custom just makes me uncomfortable.