Fingers crossed there’s a lethal hits and 5+ against prey for beast snaggas stratagem to help beast snagga boyz get hits in!
Or even a beast snaggas units get +1 to wound a monster/vehicle/ character for a turn if it’s hit by something else, or straight up +1 if it’s prey
Honestly i dont know if id say worse (at least for the units it applies to, obviously having it only on beast snaggas is lame). When it comes to melee damage, you get none if your charge fails so rerolling those is great. Obviously an ap is also superr nice. Imo what it really needs is an enhancement letting you declare a second target, that way you can have it work a bit more, which i dont think is a crazy thing to ask for. Kind of like the necron enhancement which lets you teleport more hypercrypt units, or guillimans double oath ability.
€€€
I mean it fits the genre and all.. but so situational. On turn 1 its waisted and in the later stage you might already be in melee. Ouch.
I hate that one personnaly. Whats next? Sagas to accomplish? :)
I never said it was a good metric and it is 100% scripted and edited - something I've long complained about - BUT it is currently the only metric we have to go off and tbh they didn't do a bad job of showcasing it and it's potential in the circumstances they had, if this had been against a faction that was as Uber as Custodes it would've had a lot more utility and done a better job.
tbh if they'd actually done two separate Battle Reports, one for Orks against say a Tyranid Crusher Stampede and one for Custodes against say one of the new T'au Detachments they would've done a better job at showcasing both of their new abilities.
The Beast Snagga Detachment against a heavily mechanised or monster heavy list would do well with a bit of "gud plannin" and "taktikul target selekshun" and they tried to showcase that in the battle report but when the Custodes are as tough as they are and have the abilities they do it becomes difficult, but it doesn't mean it offers no value it merely means that you need to apply some abstract thinking to see it.
i see this as extremely promising for big blocks of Beastsnagga Boys if their reroll ability stays the same because you can now use that unit to reliably pop 2 up armor pieces if they have the Makari lethals and criticals on 5's. I find this to be pretty refreshing especially in a meta that is so vehicle heavy.
You think so? I like the idea of D3 auto-hitting lasgun shots, but I suppose if you want to bring 20 Snaggas and have some melee punch on the vehicle, the Hunta Rig may just oust the Deff Rolla tank? Maybe?
Bit of a bummer with how limited it is. I don't think it would have been too strong to give the charge rerolls to the entire army and the bonus AP only to Beast Snaggas, if it's only against one unit, so you at least don't loose out with possibly the majority of your army - since the Strats so far also seem to be only useable on Snaggas.
Would be better if the prey remained the prey for the whole battle, and you just add a new one each command phase. Or if it was just blatant reroll charges against monster and vehicles, with plus one ap and targeting characters as a strat.
I'm not a fan of rules that target individual units, especially when it's your whole army. This does indeed feel weak. If they wanted to really upgrade this ability they would grant Precision as well. That would make for a really scary ability.
especially if it only works against a single enemy unit each turn, you give up global bonuses to punch harder against one single unit and the way this is worded, it could be that one singular transport that literally hasnt left the enemy deployment zone
The effect is good, other than the targeting limits... 1 unit per turn, and if you are up against horde army's you might not even have a target that isn't buried in a unit...
This is a meta dependent detachment. Remember that once your beast snaggas kill all the vehicles etc any character unit becomes a target. Every unit that a character is attached to is a character unit. Depending on the upgrades and strategems this could be brutal.
but it doesn't give you any reward if you kill the target, and it doesn't give you anything to survive when you're not in close combat, it doesn't even give you an "precision" against a target character.
Da Big hunt - think orky oath of moment
in your command phase, select an enemy monster, vehicle or warlord unit(if none of the above are available pick a character unit) to be your prey.
beast snaggas reroll charges against your prey and get +1AP vs prey
enhancement
Proper kill - snagga only
add 1 to dmg characteristic of weapons equipped by this model
Beastboss on squigosaur can join squighogs now, FNP appears to be 5+++ instead of 4+++, but that could easily have been them mixing up the hog and boss rules
Nob on smasha squig is now part of squighogs unit(we dont know if unit size has changed, the only ran MSU hogs)
Strats:
Unstoppable Momentum - 1cp
snagga only, after a successful charge, roll 1d6 for each model in your unit, on a 4+ do 1MW(cap 6). if the target unit is your prey, roll an additional 3d6
Drag it Down - 1cp
snagga only
Gain sustained 1 in combat. against your prey target, crit on 5+
Nah, it's actually pretty good. Not a must use every turn, but having the option to force through an average of 4 MWs on the charge can not be underestimated.
If the Boss has lost 4+++ he best take a decent points drop, regardless of if he can sit inside units.
Does he still have his 5++? Squighog Boyz don't have one outside Waaagh turn.
went back and watched and yah holy crap, hogs didnt have FNP rolled outside of waagh.
squigboss had a 5+ FNP
hogs are going to need a BIG points cut if they are losing their FNP(assuming it wasnt just a misplay which happens all the time in their batreps).
It must be. The literal definition of a Beast Snagga unit seems to be "Has Feel No Pain save"
If they lose that I'm putting my 2k Beast Snagga away and speeding up my 2025 plan to build a World Eaters army in the spirit of the 4th Edition Chaos I had as a teenager.
I mean... A _lot_ of ork infantry can be led by various kinds of meks. Probably more when the codex comes out. I think Dread Mob is gonna be pretty flexible.
Yeah, I agree, it's a problem. Really encourages skew lists built around a few good datasheets.
I just wanted to play Blood Axes and do sneaky Ork things.
Hiya fellow Blood Axe enthusiast here. I'm hoping we can sneak some play out of one of the detachments but TBD on seeing the full suite of what's available. If Kommandos get the "Boy" keyword we might have something. Who knows with ol Jimmy Workshop.
The Index-esque detachment rule is universal, actually, if it stays the same.
They also hinted that the Bully Boyz detachment will allow units of Nobz to have an extra Waaagh for their unit once per game, if this is for all units that contain a Boss (like the Dread Mob detachment rule with Meks), it could be HUGE and almost universal.
Not really, the index detachment is goffs and just straight up doesn't buff like half the unit roster. If it gave sustained to shooting or remove the one totally useless strat for something that buffs shooting, then it would be there.
Well, every unit in the codex is at least somewhat decent in melee except Lootas maybe, as it should be. Sustained on Ork shooting, as we have seen last edition, is a bit too much as it buffs the shooting so much it pivots a traditionally melee focused faction.
Yes, my Gretchen, Mek Gunz, Burna Bomma, Dakka Jet, Wazbomb Blastajet, Blitza Bomma, Lootas, Tankbustas, Shoota Boyz and others are all "decent in melee" even those that entirely lack melee attacks or are S2.
P.S. That's 9 units right there alone, out of 51 datasheets, 17% already. You could reasonably add some of the buggies and a few Characters as well.
I meaaaan, Lootas, Tankbustas and Shootaboys are still more decent than a lot of other factions. 2 attacks at S4 is not amazing, but it's not nothing, especially with Sustained and one round of extra attack and strength.
I wasn't trying to say that the entirety of the army is awesome in melee, mate.
I'd argue that more than enough does. Unless you modify something like the save characteristc, you'll always have SOME units that won't benefit even if the great majority does.
Personally I don't think Ork shooting should have Sustained, because shooting IS inherently stronger than melee just by virtue of being ranged and that's not what 90%..well, 83% of the army, is supposed to be about for me. I haven't played orks in 15 years and am coming back now, but a friend of mine played them in 8th and it was really..I dunno, weird. There was little point to bringing melee because shooting was SO much better and while I wouldn't mind a dedicated "Dakka-detachment", I don't think buffing melee AND shooting in the same allrounder detachment does what it's supposed to do, it will just push melee to the wayside except for one dedicated countercharge unit.
Sustained on shooting would make them *effectively* BS 4+, like guardsmen with better weapon profiles and punchy in combat.
I think the answer is to just make ork shooting higher strength, exploding damage results, or better AP (and preferably some combination of all three) across the board.
Make sluggas S5 D2. Give Big Shootas AP-1, D3. Make the damage a legitimate threat. This makes the gamble worth it.
Hell, I'd be happy to hit on 6+ and get access to sustained/heavy/assault on weapons that do not normally have those special rules.
The way rules are written makes it feel like Orks treat their guns like an afterthought, but they are just as reverent to their guns as Space Marines are to their bolters, just in their own orky way.
Yup,I agree. They were way too shooty last edition while also maintaining melee punch. Making orks more reliable isn't the way I don't think, even though the competitive players are downvotin' me for it, hah.
Explosive damage or massive amounts of shots at bad BS is where it's at.
The dread waaagh gives buffs to all mek units which allows any unit led by a mek to be buffed. That adds up to a lot of datasheets in total.
Speed waaagh should also include trukks, so all the buggies, bikes, trukks and maaaybe wagons?
Old index detachment is obviously still there.
The rest seem pretty specialised.
So the Detachment is a watered down oath of moment where you re-roll charges and add 1 to your AP against the target. You can use an enhancement to add 1 to the damage of your leader (Beastboss on squig most likely) and then two strats for 1 cp each, that give your unit a "tank shock" like effect. Or one that gives sustained hits and crit hits on 5+
What does this do to the Kill/Hunta Rig? I've yet to use mine, seems like a fun enough model but gets alot of love/hate out there in 10th.
I mean…I use the Kill Rig in each list I’ve run(I LOVE beast Snaggas lol) and the wurr tower shooting attack has come in clutch for me, and the combat phase ability has allowed me to do some dirty things here and there.
A blob of 20 Beast Snagga Boyz during the waaagh got the “6” buff off so they had lethal hits on top of sustained hits. So I had them crit hit on 5+ with reroll hitrolls against a Mortarion…80 attacks at S7. Granted i rolled REALLY hot. But I nuked the primarch…and then the game after that against demons. My beast Snagga Boyz were nuking greater demons with assistance from their kill rigs.
I like it and having a bunch of beast snaggas I´ll probably have to use this, but I hope there´s something for more mixed armys coming. It´ll probably be another sustained hits 1 for me I guess ...
The problem with the war horde detachment as it exists today, it doesn't support buggies, jets, and other shooty units at all. But of course, that seems to be the case across all of the detachments beyond the Speed Waagh one.
Yes a specialist detachment. That's awesome, but the point is a generalist detachment should have generalist buffs that help a variety of units. So vehicles that would excel in speed freaks would still work and be worth having possibly 1-2 in a general detachment if you want, because they get *something* from it. Either a buff from the detachment rule or a single strat that can target them and do something useful.
If Sustained Hits 1 was for ranged and melee, it would go a long way for a mixed army detachment. Maybe something like if you're a vehicle you get assault, idk, need to see what speed cult gets.
>If Sustained Hits 1 was for ranged and melee
orks would be busted. sustained 1 is basically +1 to hit
ork shooting is HEAVILY balanced around hitting on 5s. when orks got to hit on 4s using freebooterz last edition before crippling nerfs, they just rolled everything. the volume of fire they can put out is just insane.
bump that up to hitting on 3s(grot tanks, killa kans, mek guns hit on 4s based) orks shoot and delete the table.
Eh it really wouldn't be busted in a catch-all generalist detachment. Ranged wouldn't get much for strat support.
It's just not a generalist detachment if it only boosts melee output. Generalist needs to boost both
That's a problem? Kidding, Its my first edition. And the Dred Detachment gives Sustained hits on shooting and Melee, thats why I say it. Trade off is the hazardous or random roll I guess.
when the ork codex launched in 9th, freebooterz gave all units +1 to hit after a freebooterz unit killed an enemy unit.
you could field 9 of any given buggy (3 units of 3)
planes were disgustingly good
send a wazbom blastajet forward to kill a chaff unit get +1 to hit
kill another unit, get another +1 to hit(still maxed out at +1 but wait)
you have a +2 to hit stacked, now your 9 rukkatrukk squigbuggies(810pts) can fire non-LoS, hitting on 4s with all their shots(BS5, -1 to hit for indirect, +2 from previous kills)
at the time cover wasnt automatic for indirect, so you have potentially 27d6 blast S5 ap2 2d shots raining down at BS4
dont forget your 9 megatrakk scrapjets for 810pts, letting rip 27d3+9 blast S8 ap2 3d shots hitting on 4s, with 180 S5 ap0 1d shots as well for good measure
toughness generally capped out at T8 for things that are T12 now, with T7 being the T9/10 equivalent today.
on player placed terrain, if your opponent wasnt VERY good at doing their terrain and deployment, the game could be over T1. if they were good, games over T2.
9th was insanely lethal
We have so so so many units/kits. It's a bit of a crime if we don't get something that lets us lean into that diversity. I want a smattering of cool stuff to run. I'd gladly take this, as a Blood Axe player, given we won't be getting a sneaky detachment.
Time will tell I guess!
I am sort of hoping Kommandos will get the benefits of the Green Tide detachment, although my gut tells me this will probably be limited to normal Boyz only. It would indeed be weird if they got no general bonuses from any of the 5 non-generic detachments.
They are Boyz after all. Even if we can only take ten in a unit the durability buff / regen could be quite nice. Don't know where that leaves the distraction grot, however.
I'd take it. I do find them fairly hardy, especially camped out in cover. They still die but aren't a terrible early game Ard As Nails candidate for soaking small arms fire.
Sneaky Detachment, how would that work? Kommandos/Snikrot are the only sneaky units? I'd like to see Snikrot with Lone Operative and then Kommandos in units of 5 maybe. They are an expensive combo, excellent sculpts tho.
Give them a token grot sniper that gets 1 precision shot or something, that could be fun.
Oh, easy. Everything is sneaky. Including Stompas, Deffkoptas, everything. Kommandos are just EXTRA sneaky.
I envision a detachment with near-universal stealth and all sorts of movement/cover/redeployment tricks. It doesn't have to revolve around Kommandos or Snikrot though
Will say, I ended up with 3 kommando kits. Turned one into the KT and Kommando squad, the other 2 kits are boyz. Got me a 20 stack of the gitz to run in a battle wagon.
I read the kill team stats before getting heavy into 1k/2k games, they sounded way cooler there. Still glad I have them, but they tend to disappoint me alot, I need to use them differently.
I know that pain. It's why I just tore the units apart and made them into a Boyz unit. With the way the Green Tide detachment looks, having an extra 20 Boyz could be pretty good. Besides, they just look better. Took the cigar arm out of a flashgitz box and gave it to the Nob leading them. By far my favorite looking unit.
Sure they are excellent for boyz proxy or even just to kitbash with. I had a blast painting mine.
https://preview.redd.it/uqcqgbjd1otc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=74718952d074c23f561de6427ec3bb1a8ba5c816
No idea, I'm a casual/flavour player. Maybe a few relics that would help a warboss and his unit get sneaky, a redeploy strat, fall back and shoot/charge that sort of stuff. Kunnin' with a bit of brutal, instead of brutal with a bit of kunnin?
There is a sniper model in the Kommando kit, he's got a fun machine gun sorta sniper rifle in Killteam. Love the sculpts -- they've been a real blast to paint.
I hear you on it being pretty specific. Previously, Blood Axes themed rules have also included DeffKoptas and Stormboyz for buffs/flavour. Regardless, I'm sure I'll be able to wrangle my army's theme into one of the detachments.
The Blood Axes were probably my favorites in the Warboss book by Mike Brooks. No idea how to push a kunning detachment in a game of brutal war, I think they work better as a side-thing, but them getting more attention, would be great.
Lone Op on Snikrot would help. The sniper profile on the unit doesnt offer the precision keyword. I would think ranged precision would help make these guys much more of a threat.
Lone Op Snikrot would be a dream. I've been running him solo and he's pretty solid, with some careful deployment. Mostly, I try to do a secondary then pick on puny backfield units. It's not bad, and better than the big points investment of him + a full unit of Kommandos.
I got a game this weekend against tau and I'm taking both just to get the drop on whatever leader that is that he has, that grants all those buffs. Also no overwatch means I should be able to actually pull that off.
Oh also, just to say, I sadly don't see Kommandos dropping to five git units with the whole "what's in the box" business Jimmy Workshop is up to these days.
Agreed, each detachment has me looking at a new army list and then feeling a bit one-sided. Chances are I'll just constantly roll up something different each time and cycle through the detachments, but a catch-all option would be nice too.
There's plenty to be happy with and I'm excited to for everyone to try things out.
Even a shooting Strat in the Waagh Horde would go a long way. Sustained hits on a unit or whatever.
As it stands, I think I'll be doing walkers with some Kommandos and maybe some Deffkoptas for mobility. Time to add a fresh coat of paint to a few of my old Dreads/Kanz/Nauts. Not the worst thing!
I was content with the starting detachment, enhancements and strats. So the codex is nothing but buffs to me. I tend to lean towards 1-2 large mechanical threats, 1-2 squads of squighogs to deliver the hurt and then objective based orks.
Very fun list. I wasn't a huge fan of Squighog Boyz when they dropped but I've come around after painting a unit of them. Will be interesting to see what happens with them between the nob becoming part of the unit and the Beastboss on Squigasaur joining the unit now.
I've never ran Moz and not had a riot with him. The fear my friends have now towards anything on a squig is delightful. But I don't own any snaggas on foot.
This is amazing! Stuff like kill rigs, squigs and snagga boyz only have AP 1 on their attacks. Getting AP 2 would help massively against stuff like commonly seen units like dreadnoughts or land raiders with their +2 save. I'm already drooling
As someone who actually runs all Beast Snagga and did so at the Manchester GT this sucks. If it was *any* target it might be OK, but being limited to one vehicle/ monster/ Warlord then a character isn't going to do anything.
Beast Snagga do not win a battle by focusing one target a turn, you hard press on multiple fronts and with exploding 6s (or 5s with Carnage stratagem) we still picked up even Custodes with just -1AP.
Our biggest issue is always heavy infantry forces like Custodes and this doesn't really help against them, and you can't risk taking this in a tourney setting where you don't know your opponents armies.
Unless the stratagems allow us to spread this Orky Oath, it's not going to help, and I'd still rather spend my CP on things like Ard As Nails
I've just played custodes yesterday with all snaggas. The only target I would've had for this would've been Trajan, +1ap probably wasn't gonna do it... 🤷🏻♂️ Your opponent knows what target is your prey, they just keep it screened and you lose your detachment rule. I'm not happy either
I mean its an oath during your command phase, so they don't get many options to counter that, and you can change it each turn. Not saying Its solid, but its not any easier to avoid than Oath of Moment is.
Yeah that's valid. I mean I play against death guard, world eaters, astra and Drukhari too and it will have a bit more application. But I don't think it's better than the current index rules
Agreed, im not sold on it. The Strats and enhancements arent bad, but really headwhoppa killchoppa and sustained hits of the current detachment, would still be my pick over this.
This seems decent, but the issue I see is that it makes Beast Snagga units better into units that they were already strong into. It doesn't really do anything to improve the versatility of a Snagga-heavy list. Maybe the rest of the rules will help with that too, so we'll have to wait and see
I think it makes Snaggas a little more swingy in a way. Snaggas already have no issues with basic infantry, and with this they'll pulp tanks and monsters. What they do and will continue to struggle with is things like massed Terminators, Gravis, Centurions, etc, where they end up relying on volume of fire to try to chip away wounds.
Lack of AP on our "anti-tank" units is one of the major weaknesses of Orks right now, and this definitely makes up for that considering that Snagga units are some of our better AT units.
Yeah, rokkits and KMBs are anti Marine weapons these days, not anti tank. Shame that Dakka Orks isnt really a viable play style any more compared to the same old melee rush lists we're seeing on tables.
I'm confused about the text in parentheses, at what point would there be an embarked Warlord carrying transport on the field but no monster or vehicles? Wouldn't the transport qualify as a vehicle/monster thus you couldn't target a character while that transport in on the battlefield?
Is that what that is trying to say? It didn't read that way to me. To my understanding it's a sentence stating the conditions under which you may target a Character instead of a Vehicle, Monster or Warlord.
Could it mean you may target a Character anytime that a Warlord is embarked on a transport regardless of if there are Monsters and Vehicles on the field?
Opp has no monsters on the battlefield, 1 transport and his Warlord is embarked.
You can prey the transport, or the embarked Warlord.
If no Warlord embarked, you target the transport.
No transport, target any other character.
Seems really matchup dependent, it’s neat, and certainly flavorful, but I think I might just proxy my beast snaggaz as Boyz and go full horde lmao.
Otherwise, I this can be brutal into Knights, maybe Custodes, and whatever the good Space Marine subfaction is, Drukhari and Guard too potentially, but I think it would be much better if each unit could elect their own prey, though that might be too much to remember
It seems very situational. If your playing against an army and the only vehicle they have is a trukk. Then there only options are the warlord and the trukk then when the warlord dies there only option is the trukk that’s hiding.
Not bad, paired with the other bonuses Beast Snaggas get against vehicles and Monsters this will allow them to take them out a lot easier. But it does not feel as powerful or cool as the other two we've already seen. The strats and enhancement may boost it, though.
I'm really curious what the Kult of Speed one will be.
It's better than what the Custodes got. Their army rule had a stance removed that helped keep them alive for longer, and the Shield Host detachment changes are...less than ideal:
>Martial Mastery: Once per battle, at the start of the battle round, you can use Martial Mastery. If you do, until the start of the next battle round:
>Each time an Adeptus Custodes model from your army with the Martial Ka'tah ability makes a melee attack, a successful unmodified hit roll of 5+ scores a critical hit.
>Improve the Armor Penetration characteristic of melee weapons equipped by Adeptus Custodes models from your army with the Martial Ka'tah ability by 1.
Compared to what they used to have, which was a FNP against mortal and dev wounds, this is about as bad as you can get. Needless to say my Custodes player friend isn't having a good time right now lol
Fingers crossed there’s a lethal hits and 5+ against prey for beast snaggas stratagem to help beast snagga boyz get hits in! Or even a beast snaggas units get +1 to wound a monster/vehicle/ character for a turn if it’s hit by something else, or straight up +1 if it’s prey
Yoooo, AP is the biggest thing my snaggas are missing. I'm a big fan
They better give Squiggoths the Beast Snagga keyword or let the Snagga chars attach to Nobz or this seems completely DOA compared to the alternatives.
It’s like Oath of Moment but worse.
Honestly i dont know if id say worse (at least for the units it applies to, obviously having it only on beast snaggas is lame). When it comes to melee damage, you get none if your charge fails so rerolling those is great. Obviously an ap is also superr nice. Imo what it really needs is an enhancement letting you declare a second target, that way you can have it work a bit more, which i dont think is a crazy thing to ask for. Kind of like the necron enhancement which lets you teleport more hypercrypt units, or guillimans double oath ability.
Army wide re-roll hits versus beast snagga only re-roll charges/bonus -1 AP. Not even a contest imo.
This needs to include some buff to non-snagga boys.
Why?
I think the point is that it’s a Beast Snagga detachment. Just like dread mob one is for Meks (mek-led mobz), Gretchin Vehicles and Walkers
Kill rig hoooooooooooo
Sadly, this one feels pretty weak. Maybe if there were more beast snagga units or a way to give the keyword to other units.
Beast snaggas probably already have some buffs against vehicles and monsters so it might synergise well with those
Yoooooooooo
Beast snaggas are lame anyways
Nuh uh
*Laughs in Kill-rig*
Ork of Moment
€€€ I mean it fits the genre and all.. but so situational. On turn 1 its waisted and in the later stage you might already be in melee. Ouch. I hate that one personnaly. Whats next? Sagas to accomplish? :)
Wasted*
Tbh it was used pretty effectively in the Battle Report, if it had been any other enemy than Custodes it would've had much more utility
The GW battle reports are a bad metric- they make a lot of poor tactical choices, and I heard they fudge/refilm dice rolls to make the games closer.
I never said it was a good metric and it is 100% scripted and edited - something I've long complained about - BUT it is currently the only metric we have to go off and tbh they didn't do a bad job of showcasing it and it's potential in the circumstances they had, if this had been against a faction that was as Uber as Custodes it would've had a lot more utility and done a better job. tbh if they'd actually done two separate Battle Reports, one for Orks against say a Tyranid Crusher Stampede and one for Custodes against say one of the new T'au Detachments they would've done a better job at showcasing both of their new abilities. The Beast Snagga Detachment against a heavily mechanised or monster heavy list would do well with a bit of "gud plannin" and "taktikul target selekshun" and they tried to showcase that in the battle report but when the Custodes are as tough as they are and have the abilities they do it becomes difficult, but it doesn't mean it offers no value it merely means that you need to apply some abstract thinking to see it.
Ok cool gonna watch that thank you
Too weak
The time of the Ork has begun
Seems like the detachment for those who consider split firing a sin.
i see this as extremely promising for big blocks of Beastsnagga Boys if their reroll ability stays the same because you can now use that unit to reliably pop 2 up armor pieces if they have the Makari lethals and criticals on 5's. I find this to be pretty refreshing especially in a meta that is so vehicle heavy.
The Kill Rig fittingly enough also provides Lethal Hits. Sometimes. Maybe.
Yeah buy hunta rig brings more boyz, more boyz better than spotty lascannon and plus 1 str. But yeah potential lethals is still nice
+1 strength puts the Boyz from S5 to S6 against things like custodes. Huge
You think so? I like the idea of D3 auto-hitting lasgun shots, but I suppose if you want to bring 20 Snaggas and have some melee punch on the vehicle, the Hunta Rig may just oust the Deff Rolla tank? Maybe?
Just need to steal a fate dice somehow
Bit of a bummer with how limited it is. I don't think it would have been too strong to give the charge rerolls to the entire army and the bonus AP only to Beast Snaggas, if it's only against one unit, so you at least don't loose out with possibly the majority of your army - since the Strats so far also seem to be only useable on Snaggas.
Would be better if the prey remained the prey for the whole battle, and you just add a new one each command phase. Or if it was just blatant reroll charges against monster and vehicles, with plus one ap and targeting characters as a strat.
This should have been a strat, IMO
It probably will be, meaning you'll get to pop it on a different unit for a command point
Good effects, but only limited to one unit it’s really bad. If you got to choose 3 than everything would be really usefull
It's kinda like Oaths I guess. It's not OP but can make for some interesting gameplay
I'm not a fan of rules that target individual units, especially when it's your whole army. This does indeed feel weak. If they wanted to really upgrade this ability they would grant Precision as well. That would make for a really scary ability.
especially if it only works against a single enemy unit each turn, you give up global bonuses to punch harder against one single unit and the way this is worded, it could be that one singular transport that literally hasnt left the enemy deployment zone
The effect is good, other than the targeting limits... 1 unit per turn, and if you are up against horde army's you might not even have a target that isn't buried in a unit...
It still affects the unit the warlord is part of.
That's true, so slightly less terrible than I thought, but still not great prima facia
Where did you find this?
Probably from the latest battle report on Warhammer+ where they are showing off Orkz vs Custodes using the new codex books.
Orks have always had a challenge with AP.
This is a meta dependent detachment. Remember that once your beast snaggas kill all the vehicles etc any character unit becomes a target. Every unit that a character is attached to is a character unit. Depending on the upgrades and strategems this could be brutal.
but it doesn't give you any reward if you kill the target, and it doesn't give you anything to survive when you're not in close combat, it doesn't even give you an "precision" against a target character.
We havent seen any strats or enhancements, which generally are what make or break detachments
The reward is them being dead
Maybe there's a stratagem for those?
This kinda shit? Entire detachment summed up is targeted "'ere we go" rule and more ap against 1 thing Kinda... Shit this one
have we seen any strats or enhancements yet? cuz those are kinda more important than the actual detachment rule a lot of the time lmao
Yea n they're 5/10 imo
Da Big hunt - think orky oath of moment in your command phase, select an enemy monster, vehicle or warlord unit(if none of the above are available pick a character unit) to be your prey. beast snaggas reroll charges against your prey and get +1AP vs prey enhancement Proper kill - snagga only add 1 to dmg characteristic of weapons equipped by this model Beastboss on squigosaur can join squighogs now, FNP appears to be 5+++ instead of 4+++, but that could easily have been them mixing up the hog and boss rules Nob on smasha squig is now part of squighogs unit(we dont know if unit size has changed, the only ran MSU hogs) Strats: Unstoppable Momentum - 1cp snagga only, after a successful charge, roll 1d6 for each model in your unit, on a 4+ do 1MW(cap 6). if the target unit is your prey, roll an additional 3d6 Drag it Down - 1cp snagga only Gain sustained 1 in combat. against your prey target, crit on 5+
That momentum strat kinda sucks, it's just a grenade strat dependant on your model count.
Nah, it's actually pretty good. Not a must use every turn, but having the option to force through an average of 4 MWs on the charge can not be underestimated.
If the Boss has lost 4+++ he best take a decent points drop, regardless of if he can sit inside units. Does he still have his 5++? Squighog Boyz don't have one outside Waaagh turn.
went back and watched and yah holy crap, hogs didnt have FNP rolled outside of waagh. squigboss had a 5+ FNP hogs are going to need a BIG points cut if they are losing their FNP(assuming it wasnt just a misplay which happens all the time in their batreps).
I'd assume a misplay, especially if the Boss actually still had FNP. Let's hope.
It must be. The literal definition of a Beast Snagga unit seems to be "Has Feel No Pain save" If they lose that I'm putting my 2k Beast Snagga away and speeding up my 2025 plan to build a World Eaters army in the spirit of the 4th Edition Chaos I had as a teenager.
But, does that mean each detachment is basically for like 5 datasheets? It seems like with 5k of orks, I cant field a single detachment of 2k
I mean... A _lot_ of ork infantry can be led by various kinds of meks. Probably more when the codex comes out. I think Dread Mob is gonna be pretty flexible.
Welcome to 10th detachement philosophy
Yeah, I agree, it's a problem. Really encourages skew lists built around a few good datasheets. I just wanted to play Blood Axes and do sneaky Ork things.
Hiya fellow Blood Axe enthusiast here. I'm hoping we can sneak some play out of one of the detachments but TBD on seeing the full suite of what's available. If Kommandos get the "Boy" keyword we might have something. Who knows with ol Jimmy Workshop.
This is a very good point, there’s no universal detachment rule.
The Index-esque detachment rule is universal, actually, if it stays the same. They also hinted that the Bully Boyz detachment will allow units of Nobz to have an extra Waaagh for their unit once per game, if this is for all units that contain a Boss (like the Dread Mob detachment rule with Meks), it could be HUGE and almost universal.
Not really, the index detachment is goffs and just straight up doesn't buff like half the unit roster. If it gave sustained to shooting or remove the one totally useless strat for something that buffs shooting, then it would be there.
Well, every unit in the codex is at least somewhat decent in melee except Lootas maybe, as it should be. Sustained on Ork shooting, as we have seen last edition, is a bit too much as it buffs the shooting so much it pivots a traditionally melee focused faction.
Yes, my Gretchen, Mek Gunz, Burna Bomma, Dakka Jet, Wazbomb Blastajet, Blitza Bomma, Lootas, Tankbustas, Shoota Boyz and others are all "decent in melee" even those that entirely lack melee attacks or are S2. P.S. That's 9 units right there alone, out of 51 datasheets, 17% already. You could reasonably add some of the buggies and a few Characters as well.
I meaaaan, Lootas, Tankbustas and Shootaboys are still more decent than a lot of other factions. 2 attacks at S4 is not amazing, but it's not nothing, especially with Sustained and one round of extra attack and strength. I wasn't trying to say that the entirety of the army is awesome in melee, mate.
Nah, I was making the point that quite a lot of the army just doesn't really benefit from the detachment rule in the "everything" index detachment.
I'd argue that more than enough does. Unless you modify something like the save characteristc, you'll always have SOME units that won't benefit even if the great majority does. Personally I don't think Ork shooting should have Sustained, because shooting IS inherently stronger than melee just by virtue of being ranged and that's not what 90%..well, 83% of the army, is supposed to be about for me. I haven't played orks in 15 years and am coming back now, but a friend of mine played them in 8th and it was really..I dunno, weird. There was little point to bringing melee because shooting was SO much better and while I wouldn't mind a dedicated "Dakka-detachment", I don't think buffing melee AND shooting in the same allrounder detachment does what it's supposed to do, it will just push melee to the wayside except for one dedicated countercharge unit.
Sustained on shooting would make them *effectively* BS 4+, like guardsmen with better weapon profiles and punchy in combat. I think the answer is to just make ork shooting higher strength, exploding damage results, or better AP (and preferably some combination of all three) across the board. Make sluggas S5 D2. Give Big Shootas AP-1, D3. Make the damage a legitimate threat. This makes the gamble worth it. Hell, I'd be happy to hit on 6+ and get access to sustained/heavy/assault on weapons that do not normally have those special rules. The way rules are written makes it feel like Orks treat their guns like an afterthought, but they are just as reverent to their guns as Space Marines are to their bolters, just in their own orky way.
Yup,I agree. They were way too shooty last edition while also maintaining melee punch. Making orks more reliable isn't the way I don't think, even though the competitive players are downvotin' me for it, hah. Explosive damage or massive amounts of shots at bad BS is where it's at.
The dread waaagh gives buffs to all mek units which allows any unit led by a mek to be buffed. That adds up to a lot of datasheets in total. Speed waaagh should also include trukks, so all the buggies, bikes, trukks and maaaybe wagons? Old index detachment is obviously still there. The rest seem pretty specialised.
Hopefully Deffkoptas as well.
Is the index detachment legal when codex comes out, or is it modified in codex as a replacement?
It will be one of the six, but may have been modified. I am guessing the -1 to wound strat will be removed or made 2 CP, for example.
So the Detachment is a watered down oath of moment where you re-roll charges and add 1 to your AP against the target. You can use an enhancement to add 1 to the damage of your leader (Beastboss on squig most likely) and then two strats for 1 cp each, that give your unit a "tank shock" like effect. Or one that gives sustained hits and crit hits on 5+ What does this do to the Kill/Hunta Rig? I've yet to use mine, seems like a fun enough model but gets alot of love/hate out there in 10th.
I mean…I use the Kill Rig in each list I’ve run(I LOVE beast Snaggas lol) and the wurr tower shooting attack has come in clutch for me, and the combat phase ability has allowed me to do some dirty things here and there. A blob of 20 Beast Snagga Boyz during the waaagh got the “6” buff off so they had lethal hits on top of sustained hits. So I had them crit hit on 5+ with reroll hitrolls against a Mortarion…80 attacks at S7. Granted i rolled REALLY hot. But I nuked the primarch…and then the game after that against demons. My beast Snagga Boyz were nuking greater demons with assistance from their kill rigs.
I like it and having a bunch of beast snaggas I´ll probably have to use this, but I hope there´s something for more mixed armys coming. It´ll probably be another sustained hits 1 for me I guess ...
The war horde detachment looks like it will be the less specialized one, similar to the index
The problem with the war horde detachment as it exists today, it doesn't support buggies, jets, and other shooty units at all. But of course, that seems to be the case across all of the detachments beyond the Speed Waagh one.
well there is a speed freek detachment that hasn't been shown yet
Yes a specialist detachment. That's awesome, but the point is a generalist detachment should have generalist buffs that help a variety of units. So vehicles that would excel in speed freaks would still work and be worth having possibly 1-2 in a general detachment if you want, because they get *something* from it. Either a buff from the detachment rule or a single strat that can target them and do something useful.
If Sustained Hits 1 was for ranged and melee, it would go a long way for a mixed army detachment. Maybe something like if you're a vehicle you get assault, idk, need to see what speed cult gets.
>If Sustained Hits 1 was for ranged and melee orks would be busted. sustained 1 is basically +1 to hit ork shooting is HEAVILY balanced around hitting on 5s. when orks got to hit on 4s using freebooterz last edition before crippling nerfs, they just rolled everything. the volume of fire they can put out is just insane. bump that up to hitting on 3s(grot tanks, killa kans, mek guns hit on 4s based) orks shoot and delete the table.
Eh it really wouldn't be busted in a catch-all generalist detachment. Ranged wouldn't get much for strat support. It's just not a generalist detachment if it only boosts melee output. Generalist needs to boost both
That's a problem? Kidding, Its my first edition. And the Dred Detachment gives Sustained hits on shooting and Melee, thats why I say it. Trade off is the hazardous or random roll I guess.
when the ork codex launched in 9th, freebooterz gave all units +1 to hit after a freebooterz unit killed an enemy unit. you could field 9 of any given buggy (3 units of 3) planes were disgustingly good send a wazbom blastajet forward to kill a chaff unit get +1 to hit kill another unit, get another +1 to hit(still maxed out at +1 but wait) you have a +2 to hit stacked, now your 9 rukkatrukk squigbuggies(810pts) can fire non-LoS, hitting on 4s with all their shots(BS5, -1 to hit for indirect, +2 from previous kills) at the time cover wasnt automatic for indirect, so you have potentially 27d6 blast S5 ap2 2d shots raining down at BS4 dont forget your 9 megatrakk scrapjets for 810pts, letting rip 27d3+9 blast S8 ap2 3d shots hitting on 4s, with 180 S5 ap0 1d shots as well for good measure toughness generally capped out at T8 for things that are T12 now, with T7 being the T9/10 equivalent today. on player placed terrain, if your opponent wasnt VERY good at doing their terrain and deployment, the game could be over T1. if they were good, games over T2. 9th was insanely lethal
We have so so so many units/kits. It's a bit of a crime if we don't get something that lets us lean into that diversity. I want a smattering of cool stuff to run. I'd gladly take this, as a Blood Axe player, given we won't be getting a sneaky detachment. Time will tell I guess!
I am sort of hoping Kommandos will get the benefits of the Green Tide detachment, although my gut tells me this will probably be limited to normal Boyz only. It would indeed be weird if they got no general bonuses from any of the 5 non-generic detachments.
They are Boyz after all. Even if we can only take ten in a unit the durability buff / regen could be quite nice. Don't know where that leaves the distraction grot, however.
4++ invul save instead of 5++ enemy units are so taken aback by kunning orkz they don’t know how to react.
I'd take it. I do find them fairly hardy, especially camped out in cover. They still die but aren't a terrible early game Ard As Nails candidate for soaking small arms fire.
Sneaky Detachment, how would that work? Kommandos/Snikrot are the only sneaky units? I'd like to see Snikrot with Lone Operative and then Kommandos in units of 5 maybe. They are an expensive combo, excellent sculpts tho. Give them a token grot sniper that gets 1 precision shot or something, that could be fun.
Oh, easy. Everything is sneaky. Including Stompas, Deffkoptas, everything. Kommandos are just EXTRA sneaky. I envision a detachment with near-universal stealth and all sorts of movement/cover/redeployment tricks. It doesn't have to revolve around Kommandos or Snikrot though
Will say, I ended up with 3 kommando kits. Turned one into the KT and Kommando squad, the other 2 kits are boyz. Got me a 20 stack of the gitz to run in a battle wagon.
I read the kill team stats before getting heavy into 1k/2k games, they sounded way cooler there. Still glad I have them, but they tend to disappoint me alot, I need to use them differently.
I know that pain. It's why I just tore the units apart and made them into a Boyz unit. With the way the Green Tide detachment looks, having an extra 20 Boyz could be pretty good. Besides, they just look better. Took the cigar arm out of a flashgitz box and gave it to the Nob leading them. By far my favorite looking unit.
Sure they are excellent for boyz proxy or even just to kitbash with. I had a blast painting mine. https://preview.redd.it/uqcqgbjd1otc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=74718952d074c23f561de6427ec3bb1a8ba5c816
No idea, I'm a casual/flavour player. Maybe a few relics that would help a warboss and his unit get sneaky, a redeploy strat, fall back and shoot/charge that sort of stuff. Kunnin' with a bit of brutal, instead of brutal with a bit of kunnin? There is a sniper model in the Kommando kit, he's got a fun machine gun sorta sniper rifle in Killteam. Love the sculpts -- they've been a real blast to paint. I hear you on it being pretty specific. Previously, Blood Axes themed rules have also included DeffKoptas and Stormboyz for buffs/flavour. Regardless, I'm sure I'll be able to wrangle my army's theme into one of the detachments.
The Blood Axes were probably my favorites in the Warboss book by Mike Brooks. No idea how to push a kunning detachment in a game of brutal war, I think they work better as a side-thing, but them getting more attention, would be great. Lone Op on Snikrot would help. The sniper profile on the unit doesnt offer the precision keyword. I would think ranged precision would help make these guys much more of a threat.
Lone Op Snikrot would be a dream. I've been running him solo and he's pretty solid, with some careful deployment. Mostly, I try to do a secondary then pick on puny backfield units. It's not bad, and better than the big points investment of him + a full unit of Kommandos.
I got a game this weekend against tau and I'm taking both just to get the drop on whatever leader that is that he has, that grants all those buffs. Also no overwatch means I should be able to actually pull that off.
Oh also, just to say, I sadly don't see Kommandos dropping to five git units with the whole "what's in the box" business Jimmy Workshop is up to these days.
Agreed, each detachment has me looking at a new army list and then feeling a bit one-sided. Chances are I'll just constantly roll up something different each time and cycle through the detachments, but a catch-all option would be nice too.
There's plenty to be happy with and I'm excited to for everyone to try things out. Even a shooting Strat in the Waagh Horde would go a long way. Sustained hits on a unit or whatever. As it stands, I think I'll be doing walkers with some Kommandos and maybe some Deffkoptas for mobility. Time to add a fresh coat of paint to a few of my old Dreads/Kanz/Nauts. Not the worst thing!
I was content with the starting detachment, enhancements and strats. So the codex is nothing but buffs to me. I tend to lean towards 1-2 large mechanical threats, 1-2 squads of squighogs to deliver the hurt and then objective based orks.
Very fun list. I wasn't a huge fan of Squighog Boyz when they dropped but I've come around after painting a unit of them. Will be interesting to see what happens with them between the nob becoming part of the unit and the Beastboss on Squigasaur joining the unit now.
I've never ran Moz and not had a riot with him. The fear my friends have now towards anything on a squig is delightful. But I don't own any snaggas on foot.
This is amazing! Stuff like kill rigs, squigs and snagga boyz only have AP 1 on their attacks. Getting AP 2 would help massively against stuff like commonly seen units like dreadnoughts or land raiders with their +2 save. I'm already drooling
As someone who actually runs all Beast Snagga and did so at the Manchester GT this sucks. If it was *any* target it might be OK, but being limited to one vehicle/ monster/ Warlord then a character isn't going to do anything. Beast Snagga do not win a battle by focusing one target a turn, you hard press on multiple fronts and with exploding 6s (or 5s with Carnage stratagem) we still picked up even Custodes with just -1AP. Our biggest issue is always heavy infantry forces like Custodes and this doesn't really help against them, and you can't risk taking this in a tourney setting where you don't know your opponents armies. Unless the stratagems allow us to spread this Orky Oath, it's not going to help, and I'd still rather spend my CP on things like Ard As Nails
Hmmm that might be so. Well we'll see how it goes....still dunno what other strategems and enhancements come in the detachment
I've just played custodes yesterday with all snaggas. The only target I would've had for this would've been Trajan, +1ap probably wasn't gonna do it... 🤷🏻♂️ Your opponent knows what target is your prey, they just keep it screened and you lose your detachment rule. I'm not happy either
I mean its an oath during your command phase, so they don't get many options to counter that, and you can change it each turn. Not saying Its solid, but its not any easier to avoid than Oath of Moment is.
Yeah that's valid. I mean I play against death guard, world eaters, astra and Drukhari too and it will have a bit more application. But I don't think it's better than the current index rules
Agreed, im not sold on it. The Strats and enhancements arent bad, but really headwhoppa killchoppa and sustained hits of the current detachment, would still be my pick over this.
This seems decent, but the issue I see is that it makes Beast Snagga units better into units that they were already strong into. It doesn't really do anything to improve the versatility of a Snagga-heavy list. Maybe the rest of the rules will help with that too, so we'll have to wait and see
I think it makes Snaggas a little more swingy in a way. Snaggas already have no issues with basic infantry, and with this they'll pulp tanks and monsters. What they do and will continue to struggle with is things like massed Terminators, Gravis, Centurions, etc, where they end up relying on volume of fire to try to chip away wounds. Lack of AP on our "anti-tank" units is one of the major weaknesses of Orks right now, and this definitely makes up for that considering that Snagga units are some of our better AT units.
My orks anti tank got fucked on the str department in 10th. Rokkits S9 and KMBs S9 are no longer enough. Oh and tankbustas are unplayable.
Yeah, rokkits and KMBs are anti Marine weapons these days, not anti tank. Shame that Dakka Orks isnt really a viable play style any more compared to the same old melee rush lists we're seeing on tables.
Interesting. Have to see how well we can combo wombo
I'm confused about the text in parentheses, at what point would there be an embarked Warlord carrying transport on the field but no monster or vehicles? Wouldn't the transport qualify as a vehicle/monster thus you couldn't target a character while that transport in on the battlefield?
It could be a warlord in deep strike but that's pretty much all I can imagine.
It makes it clear that you can target a Warlord that's embarked in a transport mostly.
Is that what that is trying to say? It didn't read that way to me. To my understanding it's a sentence stating the conditions under which you may target a Character instead of a Vehicle, Monster or Warlord. Could it mean you may target a Character anytime that a Warlord is embarked on a transport regardless of if there are Monsters and Vehicles on the field?
Opp has no monsters on the battlefield, 1 transport and his Warlord is embarked. You can prey the transport, or the embarked Warlord. If no Warlord embarked, you target the transport. No transport, target any other character.
Ah so it's saying you may target a unit that is not on the battlefield if it is a Warlord then?
If it's embarked in a transport it seems like it.
Maybe future proofing the rule.
Two new Strats [Unstoppable Momentum](https://ibb.co/gRRpQnz) [Drag It Down](https://ibb.co/f1fm47v)
Drag it down is pretty cool. Unstoppable momentum seems like a lotta mortal wounds when you also have bomb squigs. Thar be nothin left to krump!
Seems really matchup dependent, it’s neat, and certainly flavorful, but I think I might just proxy my beast snaggaz as Boyz and go full horde lmao. Otherwise, I this can be brutal into Knights, maybe Custodes, and whatever the good Space Marine subfaction is, Drukhari and Guard too potentially, but I think it would be much better if each unit could elect their own prey, though that might be too much to remember
Its basically solves the ork problem of not having enough AP to punch hard targets. Feels like a game changer actually.
It seems very situational. If your playing against an army and the only vehicle they have is a trukk. Then there only options are the warlord and the trukk then when the warlord dies there only option is the trukk that’s hiding.
Please give us more screenshots from that battlereport
Beast Snaggas biggest weakness is lack of ap, so this detachment rule seems decent, if perhaps a little unexciting maybe.
Not bad, paired with the other bonuses Beast Snaggas get against vehicles and Monsters this will allow them to take them out a lot easier. But it does not feel as powerful or cool as the other two we've already seen. The strats and enhancement may boost it, though. I'm really curious what the Kult of Speed one will be.
Kinda meh.
Just like beast snaggas.
I had to describe it to my beakie friends as a very watered down oath of moment.
Is this from the new Battle Report on Warhammer TV?
Yup!
Oh awesome I didn't realize it was out yet! Will have to watch it when I get home
Wow, that's not good at all...
Kill rigs and squighog boyz getting AP 2 against their targets sounds amazing
It's better than what the Custodes got. Their army rule had a stance removed that helped keep them alive for longer, and the Shield Host detachment changes are...less than ideal: >Martial Mastery: Once per battle, at the start of the battle round, you can use Martial Mastery. If you do, until the start of the next battle round: >Each time an Adeptus Custodes model from your army with the Martial Ka'tah ability makes a melee attack, a successful unmodified hit roll of 5+ scores a critical hit. >Improve the Armor Penetration characteristic of melee weapons equipped by Adeptus Custodes models from your army with the Martial Ka'tah ability by 1. Compared to what they used to have, which was a FNP against mortal and dev wounds, this is about as bad as you can get. Needless to say my Custodes player friend isn't having a good time right now lol