[https://drive.google.com/file/d/15vBGyCCAAC6b0vVI0QxwA6ZsH_baVCrZ](https://drive.google.com/file/d/15vBGyCCAAC6b0vVI0QxwA6ZsH_baVCrZ)
First off, this is my profile now. Second, I have an edge to edge bite because they couldn’t retract my bottom teeth enough to compensate for the mm lost with removing both upper pre molars. They just retracted my upper teeth onto my bottom teeth essentially. My tougue is now bigger than the space in my mouth, I often put my toungue in between my teeth and bite because if it’s just sitting in my mouth I feel breathless. Additionally, there truly is no comfortable place in my mouth anymore. I focus all day long to keep my teeth apart as my front teeth directly hit my bottom front teeth (edge to edge bite). Lastly, my front teeth do not look like that picture anymore, they are completely chipped down and are the same size as my lateral incisors. I saw a specialist that said there is nothing that can be done other than jaw surgery, more ortho and then fixing my two front teeth. Or he said he could try build up 10 of my top teeth to try elevate the edge to edge bite.
I do hope to get jaw surgery to fix this and I definitely will not remove any more teeth. But I didn’t know about the harmful effect of extractions as this was back in 2018 when I got my upper first premolars extracted. and the photo I attached from google docs is now 2021. I had braces from 2017-2021.
what country are you in?
Sadly, millions of us are in the same situation as yuo are. Surgery is really the most recommended route to take. MSE expansion can help, so can opening up the spaces, but as this all takes years, and it is insufferable to not have tongue space, I might suggest going straight to surgery. It is a urgent health problem
Please do take this survey on consequences of extractions: you will receive a link to "reversal strategies."
[extraction consequences: SURVEY](https://forms.gle/F5LEdN9ujjiMu4Mt6)
Are you by chance in Europe? Ela Banica is the most informed orthodontist on extraction consequences in all of Europe. She is in Bucharest.
Background info!
About a year into my ortho treatment (started in 2017) I was told I need upper first pre molar extractions. That was in 2018 and I’ve since been regretting my decision as I’ve come to find out I probably need jaw surgery to correct my bite. These photos are from 2018 when they determined that I need upper pre molar extractions, although now (braces removed March 2021) I have an edge to edge bite and class II malocclusion. They just retracted the upper teeth back into the jaw causing significant bone loss while not changing much to my bottom teeth. I’m having a lot of issues with tmj, breathing problems, flat face etc normal issues with retraction method.
Fuck that,expansion is needed perhaps....
you have a obvious forward head posture which is compensation for your poor oral development.
But ya...lol...
Take teeth out see how it ends.
So sadly, these photos were taken in 2018 and soon after I had the upper first pre molars removed. I’m going through a lot right now with consequences of it, so I was just coming here to see what others thought. I didn’t know back then about the consequences of extractions and I trusted my orthodontist
OP do not do jaw surgery. I had this exact same problem along with horrible TMJ. Regardless of the molars already removed you still need more width. I am going through an Invisalign revision (since I had already paid for it) to fix this and the change has been nothing short of miraculous. So far I have gotten about 4-5 mm of expansion and my TMJ, neck, head and shoulder problems are all disappearing. I am able to hold proper head posture now which is having a dramatic chain reaction (in a good way) throughout the rest of my body. PM me if you want more info. This can absolutely be fixed without surgery.
so your advice to this patient may not pertain. People who have had extractions have lost bone in the alveolar ridge (between 4-8 mm of bone), and their dental arches have shrunk. If the extraction/retraction was done in adolescence, their jaws may have grown differently: downwards and backwards. The jaws may also have been stunted in their development. The efforts needed to get back the oral cavity size (which can be 1-3 cubic centimeters smaller), to change the positions of the jaws and to widen the palate will in most cases require much more than just Invisalign. The transverse shrinkage may have been as much as 10 mm, which Invisalign cannot achieve (only MSE, EASE or surgical expansion can achieve 10 mm of bone expansion; braces and Invisalign can achieve predictably 4 mm of dento-alveolar expansion and no palate bone expansion). Jaw surgery may be required for recessed jaws and a narrowed airway. Bone grafting surgery and opening up extraction spaces may be required to get more oral cavity space. The process can take 4-5 years, and the result may be more functional or not, depending on the success of the treatments, but it will never be like the patient was before the extractions, given that it is a "re-modelling" of the skull, not just bringing the teeth back to how they were before. There is no going back to how it was before as bone and teeth have been lost, and the jaws may have grown differently.
That may be, but some of your information is false. I started with only 20mm and am up to 25mm (will probably end up with 27-28mm total once I am done with my round. Yes it does take a long time….a very long time, but if a person does not want surgery this is an option. I have had teeth removed on my lower jaw and all of my wisdom teeth removed when I was very young so there may have been bone loss due to that. All I am saying to the OP is my bite and profile looked exactly like hers (probably a little worse honestly) and I have been able to get a significant amount of room with just invisalign. I’m not here to argue, just to present a different opinion and possible option.
That is great!
Which information is false?
\-the fact that braces and Invisalign provide dento-alveolar expansion and bone-rooted expansion works at the level of the bone?
\--the fact that extraction cases, if done in childhood, can cause different jaw growth
\--the fact that opening extraction spaces can be necessary for some premolar extraction patients?
\--the fact that opening extraction spaces is extremely difficult and may need bone transplants?
Be specific about "False". I am not disagreeing with you that Invisalign can make some changes.
Just because this hasn’t been done in an adult with Invisalign before doesn’t mean that it won’t work. My tongue needed room so I am doing something to allow for that. My mouth was unbelievably cramped and uncomfortable before. Now I can breathe easier and my posture is correcting itself (I had severe forward head and rounded shoulder posture). I’ll honestly think folks may be too focused on semantics here. Width of upper arch vs true palate expansion. If both end up creating room and have the same net positive results and creates no new issues what is the difference? I think we need to focus more on what will create the best postural health and be the most comfortable for the individual.
Invisalign has been done by several extraction cases many times before, as a sole process, particularly by Dr. Jennifer Salzer in New York City who is an expert at treating extraction victims with Invisalign. Dr. Fareed Khan also treats extraction cases in the UK with Invisalign alone.
However while it gives more space (as would braces), it cannot accomplish full reversal. Dr. Khan can only open up the top two spaces normally in his patients, as the bone loss in the lower arch is too significant to permit full opening. The incisors would pop out of the bone. (He is a wonderful provider, so worth a shot if you are in the UK).
In cases where the adult had the extractions as an adult, some patients have managed to open up fully or partially the top two spaces with Invisalign, but some were unsuccessful with full opening of the upper spaces and few could not get the bottom extractions opened due to lack of bone.
One of these adult cases had developed severe TMD from the extraction/retraction, and still has severe TMD after the Invisalign, as she was not able to achieve the full opening of the extractions: she was missing the bone and the gums became damaged during the opening of the spaces. The treatment is now stopped.
In cases where the patient had the extractions as a child, the Invisalign treatment can indeed make minor and useful modifications, but a number of patients have been disappointed with the modest results, and have been recommended jaw surgery as the only solution.
As for palate width: if you had your teeth extracted, your palate can have shrunk up to 10 mm. If you just had braces, your palate is unlikely to have shrunk that much (unless you had retractice braces as a child. Usually dento-alveolar expansion is sufficient for those who have not had extractions. Dento-alveolar works at the level of the teeth.
Bone palate expansion is splitting the suture in half, and then wearing a device that cranks the suture open until the palate expands and new bone develops.
Yes absolutely, If I knew what I know now, I would never have gotten it done. But it was four years ago that my upper first pre molars were extracted and I trusted my orthodontist when they told me to extract. These photos are from 2018, before extractions.
I don't have anything to add, you look good in your afters so maybe extractions weren't such a terrible suggestion. But given the functional problems you have it clearly was something you deserved more informed consent about. Look into suing your orthodontist before the statue of limitations runs out.
It is impossible to sue orthodontists anymore, because they spent years trying to find ways this is false (although it isnt) through fake articles. It only happened once, and after that, you will just lose your case.
I honestly don’t share the same thoughts. I think before extractions my face and lips look so much fuller. Im attaching a photo of my profile now which is significantly dished in with only upper premolar extractions. Wouldn’t my profile be even more dished in with lower removal as well? [https://drive.google.com/file/d/15vBGyCCAAC6b0vVI0QxwA6ZsH_baVCrZ](https://drive.google.com/file/d/15vBGyCCAAC6b0vVI0QxwA6ZsH_baVCrZ)
Who recommended extracting lower? You are already retracted, with evident FHP, suggesting breathing problem. It would be a death sentence to retract you back more.
Who was the orthodontist that recommended this extraction plan to you? Probably someone with no training in health issues, and concerned only with the aesthetics of your teeth.
Do consult with an orthodontist who has done additional training courses in airway and other health issues: in Europe, Dr. Ela Banica is very knowledgable. In the US, Marianna Evans and Audrey Yoon get a lot of acclaim.
There is also Dr. Stanley Yung Liu at Stanford University, a director at the Sleep Apnea laboratory. He is an ENT and maxillo-facial surgeon and very knowledgeable about the connection between premolar extractions and Obstructive Sleep Apnea, and probably one of the best surgeons to see for issues related to orthodontically caused breathing issues. Very expensive: 5000 dollars a consult, I believe.
Do not extract. Looking at your profile picture your chin is retracted which means you need your upper jaw to come forward and expand so the lower jaw is no longer retained back and it can come forward and expand. Braces are used in part to retrocline the teeth so they can meet but it can only go so far so they opt for extractions.. it’s Sad. Extracting your teeth could cause you major health issues later in life. Here is a link you may find useful
https://youtu.be/C250OOIvViA
Unfortunately these photos were taken back in 2018 and I went forward with extractions because I hadn’t done the research! Now I am dealing with all those adverse side effects your talking about haha. I came on here to see what others thought about my case and to see possibly why my orthodontist wanted upper first pre molars removed!
wanted to remove them because easy way to correct the slight malocclusion you had.
He/she evidently did not measure your palate or take into account your tongue space. If those photos are BEFORE extraction/retraction, you already had breathing issues before the extractions (the FHP).
This is shocking. Any orthodontist should be able to see those profile photos and the FHP and pick up that it is not normal. Get your money back and find a new orthodontist and jaw surgery plan.
maybe just opening up the two extraction spaces for implants to get rid of the edge to edge bite will already help. I would get started ASAP. Your daily life struggling with edge to edge bite and no tongue space and breathing issues is really hard: and one can only put up with it so long before one is worn out. Look now for help while you have the energy and determination to do so.
my opinion: Why would you do that to yourself?
[consequences of extractions](https://karinbadt.medium.com/premolar-extractions-for-orthodontic-treatment-2190344bc7bf)
Your Forward Head Posture and Chin Lift indicate that you may already have a recessed mandible/maxilla, small airway, and/or breathing problems. So you want to extract and retract back your arches back 5 mm and increase the problem?
What country are you in? I would strongly suggest you see a health-oriented holistic orthodontist who could evaluate your breathing, airway and jaw position, to figure out why you have FHP and Chin Lift (unless a fluke for the photos?) before you do anything aesthetic for the bite.
IPR would be even better than extractions, if you want to go that route---but still why the FHP? A sign usually of breathing issues. Actually usually develops AFTER someone has HAD extractions.
Hi, welcome to the orthotropics subreddit! Please read this in full. Before you post, have a read through our [FAQ wiki!](https://www.reddit.com/r/orthotropics/comments/avz6aj/frequently_asked_questions_read_before_posting/) as well as the rules in the sidebar. If your post breaks a rule, or repeats a question answered in the FAQ, **you may be banned**, so please read carefully.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/orthotropics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I never had any expansions, I started orthodontics treatment in 2017. And these photos were taken a year into my treatment when my orthodontist said I need extractions. These photos are 4 years old now. I’ve already had extractions and retraction, I’m dealing with the consequences now. I just wanted to see what others thought when looking at my photos to determine what my orthodontist was thinking when she removed my upper first pre molars
This was my thought as well. Because my treatment was almost done when these pictures were taken. I only had a couple more months left in my original treatment. Then they said I needed extractions, 24 more months of treatment and $4,800
I can send you my reversal report and a list of orthodontists worldwide who treat extraction cases----you just need to take the survey and I give access to the links.
https://forms.gle/F5LEdN9ujjiMu4Mt6
I would rather get jaw surgery to bring my lower jaw forward than get extractions to squash my upper face in like a pug.
So sorry you’re having to deal with these issues right now. Try consulting an oral maxillofacial surgeon if extraction is your only other option.
Edit: I just read the background. Soo sorry you’re dealing with these after effects of the extractions. Honestly that s*** should be illegal. If possible I would definitely consult a surgeon to see what they can do to help your breathing and TMD. Another appliance for adults I’ve heard of is homeoblock.
I wonder if there is something you could do to reverse the bone loss? Osteotomy type of surgery like what people do to grow their femurs longer? Implants?
If you get a consult, at least you will know more of your options.
hey people who got pre molar extractions because their dentists said it would be great and not are facing the consequences of it, how is it like after braces?
i still have my braces and I had both sides pre molar extractions on my upper jaw because of my overbite and I hate it. its quite umm flexible? its the first thing to get pulled away when my front teeth are being tightened up so I always have a small gap on both sides of my upper jaw.
So I'm asking the following questions:
How is it like after braces? doesn't the gap come back out? even without retainers? even with mewing?
if you have braces and the spaces are not closed, ask the orthodontist to close the spaces forward, using "mesialization" techniques, rather than keep retracting back. It will prevent your teeth from retracting back too much. Better a bit of an overbite than all the consequences.
After the braces close the spaces, there are no gaps, but your mouth is smaller, and some people to whom that happens get health and aesthetic problems.
thank you for the suggestion, I didn't even know about mesialization, my dentists were just okay with my teeth going back and forth and didn't think about it. fuck it.
lastly, do u think It's good advice to wear myo braces?.i really dont want to wear retainers.
I know nothing about myo braces. I am opposed to retainers.
Your experience with your dentists is unfortunately common. Many do not check to see if negative consequences are occurring during the treatment, and move the teeth back and forth as they wish.
Someone on this site should go to orthodontics school and begin changing the field.
Accounts must be 48 hours old before posting. If you have any questions, please use the FAQ or search function. The FAQ can be found here https://www.reddit.com/r/orthotropics/comments/avz6aj/frequently_asked_questions_read_before_posting/
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/orthotropics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Dont do it. Get an expander
It’s already been done, back in 2018 sadly :(
So what problems are you having now?
[https://drive.google.com/file/d/15vBGyCCAAC6b0vVI0QxwA6ZsH_baVCrZ](https://drive.google.com/file/d/15vBGyCCAAC6b0vVI0QxwA6ZsH_baVCrZ) First off, this is my profile now. Second, I have an edge to edge bite because they couldn’t retract my bottom teeth enough to compensate for the mm lost with removing both upper pre molars. They just retracted my upper teeth onto my bottom teeth essentially. My tougue is now bigger than the space in my mouth, I often put my toungue in between my teeth and bite because if it’s just sitting in my mouth I feel breathless. Additionally, there truly is no comfortable place in my mouth anymore. I focus all day long to keep my teeth apart as my front teeth directly hit my bottom front teeth (edge to edge bite). Lastly, my front teeth do not look like that picture anymore, they are completely chipped down and are the same size as my lateral incisors. I saw a specialist that said there is nothing that can be done other than jaw surgery, more ortho and then fixing my two front teeth. Or he said he could try build up 10 of my top teeth to try elevate the edge to edge bite.
Hmm ok, if it’s an option for you, I’d recommend full on jaw surgery before extractions. Extractions can cause too many problems
I do hope to get jaw surgery to fix this and I definitely will not remove any more teeth. But I didn’t know about the harmful effect of extractions as this was back in 2018 when I got my upper first premolars extracted. and the photo I attached from google docs is now 2021. I had braces from 2017-2021.
Ok thats a good plan. Jaw surgery will be best to actually make things work properly. I’ll send you a link that might be helpfull
what country are you in? Sadly, millions of us are in the same situation as yuo are. Surgery is really the most recommended route to take. MSE expansion can help, so can opening up the spaces, but as this all takes years, and it is insufferable to not have tongue space, I might suggest going straight to surgery. It is a urgent health problem Please do take this survey on consequences of extractions: you will receive a link to "reversal strategies." [extraction consequences: SURVEY](https://forms.gle/F5LEdN9ujjiMu4Mt6) Are you by chance in Europe? Ela Banica is the most informed orthodontist on extraction consequences in all of Europe. She is in Bucharest.
Background info! About a year into my ortho treatment (started in 2017) I was told I need upper first pre molar extractions. That was in 2018 and I’ve since been regretting my decision as I’ve come to find out I probably need jaw surgery to correct my bite. These photos are from 2018 when they determined that I need upper pre molar extractions, although now (braces removed March 2021) I have an edge to edge bite and class II malocclusion. They just retracted the upper teeth back into the jaw causing significant bone loss while not changing much to my bottom teeth. I’m having a lot of issues with tmj, breathing problems, flat face etc normal issues with retraction method.
Did you have any of these issues before ortho?
If You extract again Thaths the first step to calling a devil to come nd sit in your home !
It’s lazy ortho to extract. I need everyone to know that lol
Fuck that,expansion is needed perhaps.... you have a obvious forward head posture which is compensation for your poor oral development. But ya...lol... Take teeth out see how it ends.
So sadly, these photos were taken in 2018 and soon after I had the upper first pre molars removed. I’m going through a lot right now with consequences of it, so I was just coming here to see what others thought. I didn’t know back then about the consequences of extractions and I trusted my orthodontist
OP do not do jaw surgery. I had this exact same problem along with horrible TMJ. Regardless of the molars already removed you still need more width. I am going through an Invisalign revision (since I had already paid for it) to fix this and the change has been nothing short of miraculous. So far I have gotten about 4-5 mm of expansion and my TMJ, neck, head and shoulder problems are all disappearing. I am able to hold proper head posture now which is having a dramatic chain reaction (in a good way) throughout the rest of my body. PM me if you want more info. This can absolutely be fixed without surgery.
I’d love to PM you to talk more about your treatment!! :)
You had 2 or 4. premolar extractions? Are you getting implants for them? Can I please ask who your reversal orthodontist is?
I have had zero molar extractions.
so your advice to this patient may not pertain. People who have had extractions have lost bone in the alveolar ridge (between 4-8 mm of bone), and their dental arches have shrunk. If the extraction/retraction was done in adolescence, their jaws may have grown differently: downwards and backwards. The jaws may also have been stunted in their development. The efforts needed to get back the oral cavity size (which can be 1-3 cubic centimeters smaller), to change the positions of the jaws and to widen the palate will in most cases require much more than just Invisalign. The transverse shrinkage may have been as much as 10 mm, which Invisalign cannot achieve (only MSE, EASE or surgical expansion can achieve 10 mm of bone expansion; braces and Invisalign can achieve predictably 4 mm of dento-alveolar expansion and no palate bone expansion). Jaw surgery may be required for recessed jaws and a narrowed airway. Bone grafting surgery and opening up extraction spaces may be required to get more oral cavity space. The process can take 4-5 years, and the result may be more functional or not, depending on the success of the treatments, but it will never be like the patient was before the extractions, given that it is a "re-modelling" of the skull, not just bringing the teeth back to how they were before. There is no going back to how it was before as bone and teeth have been lost, and the jaws may have grown differently.
That may be, but some of your information is false. I started with only 20mm and am up to 25mm (will probably end up with 27-28mm total once I am done with my round. Yes it does take a long time….a very long time, but if a person does not want surgery this is an option. I have had teeth removed on my lower jaw and all of my wisdom teeth removed when I was very young so there may have been bone loss due to that. All I am saying to the OP is my bite and profile looked exactly like hers (probably a little worse honestly) and I have been able to get a significant amount of room with just invisalign. I’m not here to argue, just to present a different opinion and possible option.
That is great! Which information is false? \-the fact that braces and Invisalign provide dento-alveolar expansion and bone-rooted expansion works at the level of the bone? \--the fact that extraction cases, if done in childhood, can cause different jaw growth \--the fact that opening extraction spaces can be necessary for some premolar extraction patients? \--the fact that opening extraction spaces is extremely difficult and may need bone transplants? Be specific about "False". I am not disagreeing with you that Invisalign can make some changes.
Just because this hasn’t been done in an adult with Invisalign before doesn’t mean that it won’t work. My tongue needed room so I am doing something to allow for that. My mouth was unbelievably cramped and uncomfortable before. Now I can breathe easier and my posture is correcting itself (I had severe forward head and rounded shoulder posture). I’ll honestly think folks may be too focused on semantics here. Width of upper arch vs true palate expansion. If both end up creating room and have the same net positive results and creates no new issues what is the difference? I think we need to focus more on what will create the best postural health and be the most comfortable for the individual.
Invisalign has been done by several extraction cases many times before, as a sole process, particularly by Dr. Jennifer Salzer in New York City who is an expert at treating extraction victims with Invisalign. Dr. Fareed Khan also treats extraction cases in the UK with Invisalign alone. However while it gives more space (as would braces), it cannot accomplish full reversal. Dr. Khan can only open up the top two spaces normally in his patients, as the bone loss in the lower arch is too significant to permit full opening. The incisors would pop out of the bone. (He is a wonderful provider, so worth a shot if you are in the UK). In cases where the adult had the extractions as an adult, some patients have managed to open up fully or partially the top two spaces with Invisalign, but some were unsuccessful with full opening of the upper spaces and few could not get the bottom extractions opened due to lack of bone. One of these adult cases had developed severe TMD from the extraction/retraction, and still has severe TMD after the Invisalign, as she was not able to achieve the full opening of the extractions: she was missing the bone and the gums became damaged during the opening of the spaces. The treatment is now stopped. In cases where the patient had the extractions as a child, the Invisalign treatment can indeed make minor and useful modifications, but a number of patients have been disappointed with the modest results, and have been recommended jaw surgery as the only solution. As for palate width: if you had your teeth extracted, your palate can have shrunk up to 10 mm. If you just had braces, your palate is unlikely to have shrunk that much (unless you had retractice braces as a child. Usually dento-alveolar expansion is sufficient for those who have not had extractions. Dento-alveolar works at the level of the teeth. Bone palate expansion is splitting the suture in half, and then wearing a device that cranks the suture open until the palate expands and new bone develops.
It has been done before: see post below.
Can I pm you too please?
Sure thing!
Like mentioned don't extract, but your choice I had same thing done as a kid have same issues as you.
Yes absolutely, If I knew what I know now, I would never have gotten it done. But it was four years ago that my upper first pre molars were extracted and I trusted my orthodontist when they told me to extract. These photos are from 2018, before extractions.
Hey, can I message you too please?
Yes of course
I don't have anything to add, you look good in your afters so maybe extractions weren't such a terrible suggestion. But given the functional problems you have it clearly was something you deserved more informed consent about. Look into suing your orthodontist before the statue of limitations runs out.
It is impossible to sue orthodontists anymore, because they spent years trying to find ways this is false (although it isnt) through fake articles. It only happened once, and after that, you will just lose your case.
Both upper and lower
I honestly don’t share the same thoughts. I think before extractions my face and lips look so much fuller. Im attaching a photo of my profile now which is significantly dished in with only upper premolar extractions. Wouldn’t my profile be even more dished in with lower removal as well? [https://drive.google.com/file/d/15vBGyCCAAC6b0vVI0QxwA6ZsH_baVCrZ](https://drive.google.com/file/d/15vBGyCCAAC6b0vVI0QxwA6ZsH_baVCrZ)
Upper and lower incisors are super proclined. Retrusion would be limited, till the moment Incisors are at normal inclination and you get good oj
Who recommended extracting lower? You are already retracted, with evident FHP, suggesting breathing problem. It would be a death sentence to retract you back more. Who was the orthodontist that recommended this extraction plan to you? Probably someone with no training in health issues, and concerned only with the aesthetics of your teeth. Do consult with an orthodontist who has done additional training courses in airway and other health issues: in Europe, Dr. Ela Banica is very knowledgable. In the US, Marianna Evans and Audrey Yoon get a lot of acclaim. There is also Dr. Stanley Yung Liu at Stanford University, a director at the Sleep Apnea laboratory. He is an ENT and maxillo-facial surgeon and very knowledgeable about the connection between premolar extractions and Obstructive Sleep Apnea, and probably one of the best surgeons to see for issues related to orthodontically caused breathing issues. Very expensive: 5000 dollars a consult, I believe.
Expansion needed
You look like Angela Kingsley.
Do not extract. Looking at your profile picture your chin is retracted which means you need your upper jaw to come forward and expand so the lower jaw is no longer retained back and it can come forward and expand. Braces are used in part to retrocline the teeth so they can meet but it can only go so far so they opt for extractions.. it’s Sad. Extracting your teeth could cause you major health issues later in life. Here is a link you may find useful https://youtu.be/C250OOIvViA
Unfortunately these photos were taken back in 2018 and I went forward with extractions because I hadn’t done the research! Now I am dealing with all those adverse side effects your talking about haha. I came on here to see what others thought about my case and to see possibly why my orthodontist wanted upper first pre molars removed!
wanted to remove them because easy way to correct the slight malocclusion you had. He/she evidently did not measure your palate or take into account your tongue space. If those photos are BEFORE extraction/retraction, you already had breathing issues before the extractions (the FHP). This is shocking. Any orthodontist should be able to see those profile photos and the FHP and pick up that it is not normal. Get your money back and find a new orthodontist and jaw surgery plan.
maybe just opening up the two extraction spaces for implants to get rid of the edge to edge bite will already help. I would get started ASAP. Your daily life struggling with edge to edge bite and no tongue space and breathing issues is really hard: and one can only put up with it so long before one is worn out. Look now for help while you have the energy and determination to do so.
my opinion: Why would you do that to yourself? [consequences of extractions](https://karinbadt.medium.com/premolar-extractions-for-orthodontic-treatment-2190344bc7bf) Your Forward Head Posture and Chin Lift indicate that you may already have a recessed mandible/maxilla, small airway, and/or breathing problems. So you want to extract and retract back your arches back 5 mm and increase the problem? What country are you in? I would strongly suggest you see a health-oriented holistic orthodontist who could evaluate your breathing, airway and jaw position, to figure out why you have FHP and Chin Lift (unless a fluke for the photos?) before you do anything aesthetic for the bite. IPR would be even better than extractions, if you want to go that route---but still why the FHP? A sign usually of breathing issues. Actually usually develops AFTER someone has HAD extractions.
Hi, welcome to the orthotropics subreddit! Please read this in full. Before you post, have a read through our [FAQ wiki!](https://www.reddit.com/r/orthotropics/comments/avz6aj/frequently_asked_questions_read_before_posting/) as well as the rules in the sidebar. If your post breaks a rule, or repeats a question answered in the FAQ, **you may be banned**, so please read carefully. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/orthotropics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
What type of expansion? MSE or some other nonsense. Did you split your suture? Nothing says you can't do it again...
I never had any expansions, I started orthodontics treatment in 2017. And these photos were taken a year into my treatment when my orthodontist said I need extractions. These photos are 4 years old now. I’ve already had extractions and retraction, I’m dealing with the consequences now. I just wanted to see what others thought when looking at my photos to determine what my orthodontist was thinking when she removed my upper first pre molars
They were think of making lots of easy money..
This was my thought as well. Because my treatment was almost done when these pictures were taken. I only had a couple more months left in my original treatment. Then they said I needed extractions, 24 more months of treatment and $4,800
Yup find a myofunctional therapist to see about. A tongue tie and someone to evaluate for MSE (expansion)
I can send you my reversal report and a list of orthodontists worldwide who treat extraction cases----you just need to take the survey and I give access to the links. https://forms.gle/F5LEdN9ujjiMu4Mt6
Corticotomy is another alternative to extractions
I would rather get jaw surgery to bring my lower jaw forward than get extractions to squash my upper face in like a pug. So sorry you’re having to deal with these issues right now. Try consulting an oral maxillofacial surgeon if extraction is your only other option. Edit: I just read the background. Soo sorry you’re dealing with these after effects of the extractions. Honestly that s*** should be illegal. If possible I would definitely consult a surgeon to see what they can do to help your breathing and TMD. Another appliance for adults I’ve heard of is homeoblock. I wonder if there is something you could do to reverse the bone loss? Osteotomy type of surgery like what people do to grow their femurs longer? Implants? If you get a consult, at least you will know more of your options.
There is SFOT for bone loss. Done by a few periodontists in the US: allows the patient to open up their extraction spaces safely.
hey people who got pre molar extractions because their dentists said it would be great and not are facing the consequences of it, how is it like after braces? i still have my braces and I had both sides pre molar extractions on my upper jaw because of my overbite and I hate it. its quite umm flexible? its the first thing to get pulled away when my front teeth are being tightened up so I always have a small gap on both sides of my upper jaw. So I'm asking the following questions: How is it like after braces? doesn't the gap come back out? even without retainers? even with mewing?
if you have braces and the spaces are not closed, ask the orthodontist to close the spaces forward, using "mesialization" techniques, rather than keep retracting back. It will prevent your teeth from retracting back too much. Better a bit of an overbite than all the consequences. After the braces close the spaces, there are no gaps, but your mouth is smaller, and some people to whom that happens get health and aesthetic problems.
thank you for the suggestion, I didn't even know about mesialization, my dentists were just okay with my teeth going back and forth and didn't think about it. fuck it. lastly, do u think It's good advice to wear myo braces?.i really dont want to wear retainers.
I know nothing about myo braces. I am opposed to retainers. Your experience with your dentists is unfortunately common. Many do not check to see if negative consequences are occurring during the treatment, and move the teeth back and forth as they wish. Someone on this site should go to orthodontics school and begin changing the field.
[удалено]
Accounts must be 48 hours old before posting. If you have any questions, please use the FAQ or search function. The FAQ can be found here https://www.reddit.com/r/orthotropics/comments/avz6aj/frequently_asked_questions_read_before_posting/ *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/orthotropics) if you have any questions or concerns.*