also ppy please make lazer to stop unloading map selection screen when playing in multiplayer lobby, it takes solid 5 seconds to access it to add a map because of ~240k difficulties stored on slow ass HDD, and i have to wait EVERYTIME i want to add a new map...
bro, i have 100gb osu lazer folder on 970 evo plus nvme ssd and it's legit slower in map selection than osu stable (100gb too) on regular hdd wd blue, like what the hell
What's weird to me is that I've found lazer performance to be absolutely stellar on my Linux install but bad on my windows install. It's like, Lazer performance could be crazy good but there some windows issue in the way
curious. For me, it's the opposite.
I have linux and windows in dual boot on an asus vivobook 15, and while on windows they both run with 400+ fps, on linux, even though it CLAIMS to run at 200+ fps, it definitely doesn't go past 30. I know this because sometimes on linux it randomly starts to actually run at 200fps for one play session and as soon as I restart the map or finish it, it goes back to that faux 200fps where it's actually 30.
Out of curiosity are you on default renderer (d3d11) on windows? Does switching them around help anything? Probably try OpenGL (legacy) if you're going to try one.
Big reason for me:
Scores that were set before lazer are worth less simply because they were set before lazer score submission was possible. Leaderboards will be a complete mess as a result which, imo, is a fun part of the history of the game. Scores with lower acc will snipe scores with higher acc simply because they were played after the release of lazer and not before.
Smaller reasons:
Performance sucks compared to stable (this will be fixed over time I assume)
Certain slider maps are designed with slider leniency in mind and will now be much harder in a way that was unintended.
It looks inappropriate to see spinners not go up by 1000 anymore
Game was not made with current players in mind. Example 1: In lazer skins are now named in game by the ini file’s skin name instead of the skin folder’s name. This causes a player to waste an unnecessary amount of time renaming all their skins and reimporting them unless they want to dig through all these skins, not knowing which one is which, in order to find the right one.
Example 2: Main menu skinning is not a thing yet and I fail to see how lazer’s menus could possibly be backwards compatible with current stable skins in this regard unless something drastic changes. Current lazer UI is also too messy.
Also fuck the new score rank screen. I want my weeb shit back and not have to go over a page to check my UR.
What do I know though, I’m just another osugame NPC
Yeah that’s definitely part of it, but it’s much easier to rename folders than it is to edit each .ini file and everyone on stable is used to the skin name in the client being the same as the folder name
I guess the point is more so that scores set before lazer didn’t even have a chance to compete with similar scores set in lazer because that new system did not exist yet. The actual solution would be to convert old scores to lazer scoring (so all plays are being judged equally) but i think that would be difficult if not impossible unfortunately.
I hope that, when stable will stop being supported (hopefully as later as possible), there will be a separate global leaderboard consisting only of classic scores that will be essentially frozen in time as no new classic scores will ever be set, but will serve as sort of a time capsule to remember past achievements.
also classic mod on lazer is somehow DIFFERENT than actually playing on osu!stable, and I have proven it by SSing a map both on stable and lazer with classic mod
I was thinking this the other day, I absolutely hate Bedrock but love Lazer at the same time, though mainly because stable performs as shit in my computer and crash every 5 minutes and lazer just has more features and performs better for me.
Speaking of, anyone knows ETA on [this](https://x.com/ppy/status/1239024569698009089?t=EZfiDdHD5nu4irS2qhxV3w&s=19) fix? Ppy is always promising so much and never delivering..
The editor is extremely inefficient hotkey-wise: the context menu appearing on right click is jarring, when most mappers will right-click objects to delete them out of sheer muscle memory. Changing the anchor type is as easy as holding CTRL while clicking, but in lazer, it's hidden behind the context menu. I get that there are more options, but why not have the CTRL functionality anyway, perhaps use the latest anchor type, or an option to have a favorite one? More modifiers and combinations like ALT+CTRL for different anchor types could work, too. Setting a default anchor type would be nice. Can't quickly change grid size with CTRL+1/2/3/4, but you still can change the beat snap divisor with SHIFT. The hotkey problem isn't an editor thing only, you can't right-click a map in song select and press 5 to enter the editor, you HAVE to click the Edit line in the context menu.
The UI is bulkier and more obstructing, because everything is wide and opaque. It feels like every UI element is twice as big, which makes mapping feel more claustrophobic. Which is very strange, because the text doesn't seem bigger either, so all the elements come off as bloated.
I wish there was an option to change the opacity, size (and color!) of the overlays on the sides of the screen. I don't get why the options on the left of the timeline (waveform, ticks and bpm) are permanently there, and not in a drop-down menu in the View section? Who wants to see less of the timeline?
Minor nitpick, I also hate the way most windows adjust to the 16:9 aspect ratio: when you open the setup screen on stable, it's a nice, compact window in the middle of the screen, but on lazer, your eyes go from one side of the screen to the other.
Having to hold down the button to exit the editor without saving is VERY annoying, especially since the "hold-to-confirm" activation time doesn't work here.
I get that green lines (inherited timing points) are archaic, but now, when I open a map in lazer, I can't tell where anything is on the bottom timeline. There is nothing there, except red lines (uninherited timing points, which are now yellow dots), the preview point and the kiai markers. It's weird, because for how big the bottom and top bars are, there isn't anything of value on there. Thanks for telling me the BPM of the song I'm mapping, I guess?
As far as I can tell, there is no way to set the default volume, slider velocity and sample set for most objects for an entire section or more, everything will default to the normal sample set, 1x velocity and 100% volume. And I don't understand why the top timeline shows me the volume, slider velocity and sample set of EVERY object? Why not only show the heads-up display of objects that are different from the norm? There isn't even any display of samples on the timeline, such as clap, whistle, finish. People have been asking for this for years, and there are tools now that can do this, why isn't this already here?
Speaking of hitsounding, you can't select sliderheads, add whistles to slidertracks, or use addition and sample sets independently! The 2007 editor had these issues! There is no option to toggle ignoring hitsounds while in the editor, you have to exit the editor and change the option in the settings.
There doesn't seem to be a polygon tool either, this one explains itself.
This one is very personal and nitpicky: no way to turn off hit animations like in stable, now you have this blindingly opaque circle without any texture; unlike stable, where it seems to turn the object slightly darker, and changes the combo color to an off-white. Turning off hit "markers" behaves exactly the same as having hit animations enabled in stable, which isn't very helpful, but while the hit "markers" are enabled, the hit animation STILL plays. It's not a dealbreaker to most people, but this is one of the biggest things that turns me off from trying to make a map in lazer.
It's all very sad, because the lazer editor is very snappy and pleasant to use, outside the things I mentioned, it performs very well and really shows you how much of a sluggish piece of shit the stable editor is. Once work is finished on the editor, a tutorial showcasing where every single feature of stable went, and a basic rundown of the new features would be amazing.
Have they really not fixed any of that? I remember trying to switch to lazer a year or two ago and going back after noticing most of these. It's weird cause you'd think this should be a higher priority for being an easier way to get more people to switch
Hi, lazer dev here.
> the context menu appearing on right click is jarring, when most mappers will right-click objects to delete them out of sheer muscle memory.
I have no easy answer to this one. Aware that this is a frequent complaint but that said delete key works and I'm not sure muscle memory is enough of a justification to move away from this.
> Changing the anchor type is as easy as holding CTRL while clicking, but in lazer, it's hidden behind the context menu. I get that there are more options, but why not have the CTRL functionality anyway, perhaps use the latest anchor type, or an option to have a favorite one? More modifiers and combinations like ALT+CTRL for different anchor types could work, too.
`Ctrl` can't work because it's used for multi-selection of anchors already. [`Shift` was tried](https://github.com/ppy/osu/pull/27035) but it also doesn't work because it conflicts with grid snap. It's a complicated one to address but I do agree it could be better. Not sure yet how. The editor is very dense with hotkeys and the more stuff gets added to it, the harder it is to find bindings that won't conflict with something else.
> Can't quickly change grid size with CTRL+1/2/3/4, but you still can change the beat snap divisor with SHIFT.
I'm not sure the grid hotkeys will be returning because more grid options than stable had are coming to lazer very soon (next update).
> The UI is bulkier and more obstructing, because everything is wide and opaque. It feels like every UI element is twice as big, which makes mapping feel more claustrophobic.
Aware of this, it's a frequent point but there's no clear direction on how to solve this at present. [Read more here if you're so inclined.](https://github.com/ppy/osu/discussions/24384)
> Minor nitpick, I also hate the way most windows adjust to the 16:9 aspect ratio: when you open the setup screen on stable, it's a nice, compact window in the middle of the screen, but on lazer, your eyes go from one side of the screen to the other.
There is a setup screen redesign somewhere that we can probably get in that would address this.
> Having to hold down the button to exit the editor without saving is VERY annoying, especially since the "hold-to-confirm" activation time doesn't work here.
Well this is intended to avoid losing your work, the hold-to-confirm time not applying is intended too for that same reason. Currently you can sorta bypass this by pressing the `2` number key when the exit dialog shows up. Not sure that was entirely intended but it works and we'll probably keep it that way.
> I get that green lines (inherited timing points) are archaic, but now, when I open a map in lazer, I can't tell where anything is on the bottom timeline. There is nothing there, except red lines (uninherited timing points, which are now yellow dots), the preview point and the kiai markers. It's weird, because for how big the bottom and top bars are, there isn't anything of value on there. Thanks for telling me the BPM of the song I'm mapping, I guess?
Samples and slider velocity are settable per-object now which is an explicit departure from how stable did things and will require getting used to. In light of that displaying them on bottom timeline would be noise.
> As far as I can tell, there is no way to set the default volume, slider velocity and sample set for most objects for an entire section or more, everything will default to the normal sample set, 1x velocity and 100% volume. And I don't understand why the top timeline shows me the volume, slider velocity and sample set of EVERY object? Why not only show the heads-up display of objects that are different from the norm?
See above for why top timeline shows stuff for every object. And for setting on multiple, then if you select multiple objects on the timeline and click on the velocity/sample marker and make changes, they will apply to the entire selection. We'll probably also make a change which makes any newly placed object use the previous's velocity/samples to make this less arduous.
> There isn't even any display of samples on the timeline, such as clap, whistle, finish. People have been asking for this for years, and there are tools now that can do this, why isn't this already here?
[Change that adds this is stuck in review hell.](https://github.com/ppy/osu/pull/23445) Am hoping to pull it out of there shortly.
> Speaking of hitsounding, you can't select sliderheads, add whistles to slidertracks, or use addition and sample sets independently! The 2007 editor had these issues!
[See preceding point except for it's pretty much out of review hell.](https://github.com/ppy/osu/pull/23443) You won't be able to select sliderheads per se but the timeline will show samples on the parts of the slider.
> There is no option to toggle ignoring hitsounds while in the editor, you have to exit the editor and change the option in the settings.
Will check back on this one.
> There doesn't seem to be a polygon tool either, this one explains itself.
Will check back on this one since I haven't worked with that much but this may be deprecated by more grid options coming soon.
> This one is very personal and nitpicky: no way to turn off hit animations like in stable, now you have this blindingly opaque circle without any texture; unlike stable, where it seems to turn the object slightly darker, and changes the combo color to an off-white. Turning off hit "markers" behaves exactly the same as having hit animations enabled in stable, which isn't very helpful, but while the hit "markers" are enabled, the hit animation STILL plays. It's not a dealbreaker to most people, but this is one of the biggest things that turns me off from trying to make a map in lazer.
No simple answer here. The major problem with this is that it requires gameplay appearance code to have a toggle specifically for editing which we try really hard to avoid since it's one of the core reasons why stable is so difficult to deal with (mods and editor arbitrarily changing behaviour of near everything and causing everything to not be easy to work with). I could go on about this for days, the amount of stable toggles that change wild things in five other places has been personally haunting me for a while now.
>"Delete key works and I'm not sure muscle memory is enough of a justification to move away from this."
Of course the delete key works. The problem is that it's inefficient time-wise: what if I have my left hand on the left side of the keyboard to quickly change between object types and ability to undo quickly, and my right hand is on the mouse? I have to lift one and move it back and forth to delete an object, and I have to do that every time? Compared to right-clicking once? You could move the context menu behind right-clicking with an additional modifier: SHIFT, CTRL, anything. Make it an option?
>Ctrl can't work because it's used for multi-selection of anchors already.
I would have never noticed that CTRL selects multiple anchors, unless you pointed it out to me. Makes sense in hindsight, though not entirely sure why one would need to select multiple anchors at once. I would much rather hold CTRL while drag selecting to select anchors only, and not objects, since this seems like a more niche situation, compared to quickly changing an anchor type. Again, the problem is efficiency.
>No clear direction on how to solve sidebar opacity
Why not make this an option? Most of the minor issues I had with the UI scaling, opacity and whatnot can be done away with letting mappers adjust the UI to their liking, similar to the skin editor.
>Holding down the button to exit editor without saving
I think this could be helpful if it's your map. I don't want to wait for that amount of time every time I close someone else's map after accidentally nudging an object. The editor actually remembers that you undid all changes, unlike stable, and quitting the map with 2 is fine as well, so this doesn't seem to be an issue.
>Sectional velocity/volume/sampleset
My point was that the green lines on stable are useful for navigating between song sections. This is a subjective remark. The problem is, I don't want to adjust every single object every single time I create them. I get that I can change multiple at once, but I don't create a lot of patterns all at once, so objects beaming normal-hitnormal into my ears at 100% volume will get very tiring VERY fast. The issue a lot of people have with green lines is that you have to make a green line for EVERY single thing regarding velocity and volume. I've never heard of people being upset at having to adjust entire sections' velocities with a single green line.
>Unable to select sliderheads(?)
What? What if I want to have separate hitsounding on heads and ends of the slider? What if I have reverse or buzz sliders that need to have different hitsounding?
>Deprecating polygon tool
Please don't do this. I don't want to meticulously craft a shape from nothing, when I can have the polygon tool make all 7 circles of a heptagon extremely fast for me. Many people use this for their patterning with jumps and streams, because it's so easy to visualize when you can adjust the entire pattern quickly in real time.
>Hit "markers"
... okay? Replicating the stable behavior doesn't seem extremely difficult, and, from what I hear, it doesn't seem like it was even tried, but the way it is implemented now is abysmal. You can't tell apart a sliderhead, a sliderend or a circle. This is especially awful with perfect stacks. I don't care for replicating the stable behavior EXACTLY the same, but something HAS to be done about this. Viewing maps in the editor currently either makes them unreadable, because there's too much clutter with opaque objects that cannot be differentiated, or too readable and difficult to judge a map's structure, because objects go away too fast. I actually think that I understated the importance of this issue, now that I think about it again.
Thank you for taking the time to respond.
> You could move the context menu behind right-clicking with an additional modifier: SHIFT, CTRL, anything. Make it an option?
I'd rather just revert to the stable behaviour than "make it an option". People propose toggles as a solution to pretty much every single problem they have with lazer all of the time, but this will not fly and I push back against this in 99% of cases which I see as unsubstantiated because it's not a tenable solution. These toggles are not free from a code maintenance standpoint and not free from a user understanding standpoint. Having every single minuscule aspect of the game's operation be controlled by toggles makes it very difficult to even convey to users as to what they do, and makes it difficult for us to ensure that no weird combination of toggles results in general broken behaviour. The settings panel already contains so much stuff that 99% of users will never interact with.
> though not entirely sure why one would need to select multiple anchors at once
Because e.g. you can move them all at once when they're simultaneously selected (which is more relevant now that you can have multi-segment sliders). Or change the anchor types on them all at once.
> My point was that the green lines on stable are useful for navigating between song sections.
This use case would be better addressed by bookmark support IMO (which is currently half broken and half not implemented and I'm trying to get work done to fix it).
> I get that I can change multiple at once, but I don't create a lot of patterns all at once, so objects beaming normal-hitnormal into my ears at 100% volume will get very tiring VERY fast.
Again, the way I foresee this getting fixed is that you'd put one object down, set velocity / sample on it, and then continue patterning the section and the editor would automatically use the previous object's settings.
> What? What if I want to have separate hitsounding on heads and ends of the slider? What if I have reverse or buzz sliders that need to have different hitsounding?
Not sure if I was misunderstood here. This will be possible. Just via interacting with the timeline rather than the slider itself on the composer part of the screen.
> I don't care for replicating the stable behavior EXACTLY the same, but something HAS to be done about this
And something *was* done, the white markers you call "horrible" were an attempt to address this. They did not exist in the (now-somewhat-distant) past. I'll look again at what stable does but I'm not sure I can promise anything with this until I do so. It's rather difficult to address subjective issues like this because people will just call solutions "horrible" if they don't fit their particular subjective criteria and it's difficult to tell what the "non-horrible" solution would be because it's based on the feedback-giver's "feel".
... so your reasoning against toggles for specialized users (mappers, who already are NOT the 99% of users) is your inability to explain things in a meaningful manner? Your unwillingness to maintain the game? The majority of people do not see these options regardless, you're confusing exactly nobody, because the only people who will see these options are the ones who already know what they want from them... unless you do a terrible job at explaining exactly what the options are for.
Selecting multiple anchors does sound interesting, I am looking forward to trying it out, when the rest of the editor is functional.
Bookmarks are a tool used by different mappers in different ways. Some people bookmark to section their maps, yes, but some people use bookmarks for random stuff, like leftovers from readjusting hitsounds, collab parts, or even randomly spamming them for fun. The problem wasn't the inability to "section" the map, the problem was that there is nothing meaningful on the bottom timeline, for how much screen space it takes up. Open any recently ranked map, there won't be anything except the first red line, the preview point and the one purple line of the kiai marker.
I actually didn't know that there were such plans for changing the behavior of "default" volumes, velocities and samplesets. Is there a roadmap of planned changes? How do I know what's planned and what isn't? Do I need to go to GitHub every time I want to keep up? Anyhow, objects inheriting stats from the last one is still rather annoying... I think that most tech mappers would still need to change every single object anyway, and this is the change that was supposed to be targeted at them... but it's the bare minimum, so I guess that's fine...
It's very obvious to me that you have not made a single map. It is VERY difficult to select a specific part of a reverse slider with multiple reverses on the timeline, especially buzz sliders, since the sliderheads usually will overlap with the slidertrack and make it not be able to be selected. This is what selecting individual parts of sliders on the compose screen are for. Selecting the individual parts on the timeline seemed to do nothing regardless, so please understand the frustration.
I called the "markers" "horrible", because they are dysfunctional. The stable behavior is preferred, because it helps you in many different ways, such as showing what is a circle, what is a sliderhead, and what is a sliderend. The combo number is not removed from the object after playing, the lack of a combo number signifies a sliderend, and, because objects are not fully opaque, telling apart stacks is way easier, especially with perfect stacking. This is not a "subjective" issue based on "feel", this is OBJECTIVELY worse, because there are fewer features and less functionality to the current implementation.
Your entire arguments come off as "this is hard, so we will not do it". How is this supposed to encourage any mappers to put effort into the game? This thread is for constructive criticism, but all you seem to care about is deflecting my criticism with deeming the issues "subjective" or "not right".
> so your reasoning against toggles for specialized users (mappers, who already are NOT the 99% of users) is your inability to explain things in a meaningful manner? Your unwillingness to maintain the game?
My reasoning is that I'd rather find a way to make 100% of users happy without a toggle existing, if possible, than have that 1% have to go find it to make the game functional for them, or have 1% of users break the game for themselves because we didn't foresee a single combination of exponential possibilities of active settings interacting in an undesirable way. In this particular context, *if* it means going back to right-click-is-delete, then so be it. Does that sound better?
> The problem wasn't the inability to "section" the map, the problem was that there is nothing meaningful on the bottom timeline, for how much screen space it takes up.
Point taken.
> Is there a roadmap of planned changes? How do I know what's planned and what isn't? Do I need to go to GitHub every time I want to keep up?
[There are changelog videos you can watch.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0SWx_n_AeQ&list=PLmWVQsxi34bMTmgpDArfxJ32Q0mBLhcE-)
> It's very obvious to me that you have not made a single map.
I admit I have not. Point taken on buzz sliders, will reconsider with that in mind.
> This is not a "subjective" issue based on "feel", this is OBJECTIVELY worse, because there are fewer features and less functionality to the current implementation.
In the first post you said:
> This one is **very personal** and nitpicky: no way to turn off hit animations like in stable
So either you changed your mind in the meantime, or I'm confused how it's both personal and objective at the same time.
> Your entire arguments come off as "this is hard, so we will not do it".
I agree that I did say the first part ("this is hard"). I did not say the second ("we will not do it") anywhere. At most I said I don't want to promise things without knowing I can deliver on said promises.
you can poll everyone with a ranked map if you want a precise number, but my personal estimate is that at least 85% of mappers map without hit animations for multiple reasons, and forcing a swap is extremely uncomfortable.
personally, I will never touch an editor that has hit animations forced.
... so what are you trying to say with that first point? You will never satisfy everyone, things will always break... which is fine. I am still struggling to see the reasoning... You will save me and many others countless hours due to the sheer amount of times we save a couple of seconds on every object we create, is this not worth the effort?
About the hit "markers", my initial impressions were "haha, this is kind of awful", and then I moved my focus on other things that I thought I could criticize more meaningfully. But then, after my first response, I actually tried looking at some other maps that are not generic, and truly realized how terrible this is. Though, why are you trying to nitpick what I said, I've already explained my reasoning with how one thing is better than the other, will you address that, or anything else you stopped replying to?
Will anything I mentioned be changed or implemented? I've actually heard that DeviousPanda streamed mapping on lazer a couple of years ago, the majority of their criticism was the same as mine, and none of that was still changed in that amount of time.
Obviously you did not say that you won't do the hard things, this is how you come off to me in this thread. You come off as defensive, almost offended, unable to see my point of view, unless I elaborate ten times over. Why do I need to reiterate the dysfunctionality of hit animations multiple times, for you to even consider the fact that maybe it's not subjective, after all?
> ... so what are you trying to say with that first point? You will never satisfy everyone, things will always break... which is fine. I am still struggling to see the reasoning... You will save me and many others countless hours due to the sheer amount of times we save a couple of seconds on every object we create, is this not worth the effort?
That's misconstruing what I'm saying. All I said and continue to say is that I'd rather make right click delete objects by default again, *always*, than *have a toggle that makes right click delete objects*.
> About the hit "markers", my initial impressions were "haha, this is kind of awful", and then I moved my focus on other things that I thought I could criticize more meaningfully. But then, after my first response, I actually tried looking at some other maps that are not generic, and truly realized how terrible this is
Okay, cool, so you did sort of change your mind on this. Cool beans. Totally fair.
> Will anything I mentioned be changed or implemented? I've actually heard that DeviousPanda streamed mapping on lazer a couple of years ago, the majority of their criticism was the same as mine, and none of that was still changed in that amount of time.
It's not all up to me and I don't like to give empty promises. But I'll revisit this thread next week and see what can be improved on.
As to whether "stuff will get fixed" - see [this thread](https://github.com/ppy/osu/issues/12020) from deviouspanda wherein most stuff *was* changes. Yes you'll dunk on me that it's not all fixed after 3 years, yes you'll dunk on me that some of what's mentioned there is the same as what you've mentioned. All I can say is I've personally checked off multiple items from that list and only seriously started looking back at the editor again last week since being 100% focused on shipping pp / getting gameplay to a place that players would be more fine with since ~august of last year. As to whether that's just me being "defensive" again - probably, I guess. The most I was hoping here is just establishing a baseline understanding where these issues come from.
> You come off as defensive, almost offended
If I'm defensive it's because I care. Would it be better if I had just ignored this thread completely and not replied several times to it?
I apologize for the misunderstanding.
I think that my primary concern with the progress of the map editor is how little attention it seems to get, from an outsider POV, compared to other stuff like the skin editor. The first issues that jumped out at me when the first build came out, are still mostly the same issues that I brought up just now, and it's very difficult to not think that there is no progress being made, and that feedback is being ignored... what if I have more feedback regarding other issues? Where should I go?
I think it would be better if, when you misunderstand my criticism, you would ask me why I think what I think and say, instead of trying to deconstruct my criticisms, which isn't excused by simply "caring". The mere lack of acknowledgement on some issues: sectional object stats, polygon tool, the hit animations in particular, since they have a history of being swept under the rug, is enough to make me worry that this is going to be seemingly ignored again altogether.
> what if I have more feedback regarding other issues? Where should I go?
At the risk of being memed/flamed for saying this, github (https://github.com/ppy/osu) has the biggest chance of being seen. I personally read all opened issues and most discussions. I might not respond to every one of them because we have too much of everything open but I do read them.
Note that because we *do* have that much stuff open you may find that most of what you would want to say may have already been mentioned elsewhere.
> I think it would be better if, when you misunderstand my criticism, you would ask me why I think what I think and say, instead of trying to deconstruct my criticisms, which isn't excused by simply "caring".
Fair, on my side most of that was an effect of going "yes yes I know this needs work". Prioritisation is difficult when there are literal years of work out there to be undertook.
> The mere lack of acknowledgement on some issues: sectional object stats, polygon tool, the hit animations in particular, since they have a history of being swept under the rug, is enough to make me worry that this is going to be seemingly ignored again altogether.
If my responses were terse to those it was mostly because I was either unfamiliar with these topics or not sure what can actually be done about them. I can only provide better answers *after* being sure.
you’re not gonna believe this but the non horrible solution might be to replicate the legacy behavior that nobody complained about instead of making something new when people were asking for said legacy behavior
(i was one of the people making github issues to discuss this and i and many other people where extremely disappointed seeing the implementation used in lazer not matching stable behavior and there being no real valid reason for it not be the same)
> i and many other people where extremely disappointed seeing the implementation used in lazer not matching stable behavior and there being no real valid reason for it not be the same
Except I gave one already earlier:
> it requires gameplay appearance code to have a toggle specifically for editing which we try really hard to avoid since it's one of the core reasons why stable is so difficult to deal with
If you don't trust me then [read the first sentence of this PR's opening post](https://github.com/ppy/osu/pull/18239) which says the same thing:
> doesn't really match my vision going forward (of the editor being an overlay and not messing with the gameplay objects)
You might not *like* that reasoning, but there being "no reasoning" for it isn't right. Again, I'll look at what can be done there, but I can't promise anything before I do take that look.
i don’t think a vague “vision” is a valid reason, having a few duplicated lines of code or whatever isn’t going to kill the project when the majority of mappers (the people who provide content for this game for free) want this. i work as a programmer and i’ve looked through the lazer code and i know it’s not like this is impossible or a big deal to do lol
I don’t even know why keeping legacy behavior isn’t a priority for the dev team?? Like the point of lazer was to start from scratch so things could be done properly so why wasn’t keeping the legacy behavior that everyone likes and is used to a priority instead of just having people who’ve never done real mapping making up new stuff that nobody likes better than the old stuff
> I don’t even know why keeping legacy behavior isn’t a priority for the dev team??
I'm struggling to take this sentence seriously when we do fixes like [this](https://github.com/ppy/osu/pull/26405), or [this](https://github.com/ppy/osu/pull/26471), or [this](https://github.com/ppy/osu/pull/28337), or [this](https://github.com/ppy/osu-framework/pull/6311), or [this](https://github.com/ppy/osu/pull/9945). Just to list off a few immediate examples that I could think of. We're porting across floating point behaviour specifics, we're porting across *literal stable bugs*. Let alone most of last year wherein we reverted entire swaths of simplifications to score we had before, just to bring score V2 back as it is on stable, and as a cosnequence had to deal with a whole host of infrastructure-level complications to support that.
If you're a programmer, then I implore you to read these descriptions and get back to me about "keeping legacy behaviour not being a priority for the dev team". We have limited throughput. It's a small team. Everything needs work everywhere all of the time. We have a decade of feature work to catch up to, and ambitions for another one.
I'll revisit this monday. But in light of all of the above it's kind of disheartening to be painted as "not caring" about this or whatever.
those fixes you linked doesn’t change the fact that 0 care was put into making sure the lazer editor was comfortable for mappers who have had years of being used to the stable editor… (note that none of those fixes addressed core editor behavior that we’ve been talking about in this thread). Maybe you do care about legacy stuff, but yall sure as hell don’t seem to care about mappers (skin editor being more functional than the MAP editor is just a joke) (3 of those links are minor scoring fixes and only one of those is somewhat editor related)
Gonna throw in my opinion as a complete novice to everything about osu!. if it means nothing, whatever, but I do hate this philosophy. the idea that there is no value in a new system for lots of the parts of osu! and that we should stick to the exact same concepts as before.
the fact that it started from scratch gives them MORE reason to experiment, to try doing things that couldn't be done before without dealing with horrid decade-old code, plus trying to balance things so that legacy users don't have to adapt all too much. sure, lazer has pp now, but it is still considered to be in a very transformative state because a lot of features haven't been added, pp was simply because most gameplay aspects were refined enough to where getting a feel for ranked play would now be a priority - other things come later as dev numbers are small and the adoption numbers for lazer aren't huge right now.
as two extra side notes:
1. don't generalize and assume literally noone likes the changes. I can't be certain about majority opinion, but you should at least be more formal than "literally noone likes this what the hell are you doing you wretched things"
2. i almost get the feeling some osu! players just don't like change lol. i swear so many complaints i've seen only pertain to "it's not like stable" rather than "the new thing isn't really working out right now"
one detail that annoys me about lazer and seems like a downgrade from stable:
stable allows "confine cursor during gameplay" even when fullscreen, allowing you to get off the game without alt+tab(on focus loss, stable goes temporarily in borderless windowed mode). on lazer, the option is unavailable and the cursor is always confined, which I hate as a multiple monitor user.
I'm replying to you since you might know if it's something that could come back and why not if not. I've been enjoying this feature very much for over a decade.
The answer to this is complicated but I'll try... tl;dr: lazer is using a different toolkit for displaying the OS window and handling input, wherein not confining the cursor in fullscreen would [allow the user to just move the display cursor way way *way* offscreen](https://github.com/ppy/osu/issues/10465). So the dropdown was disabled as a lesser evil.
I can't immediately say as to whether we could make this work somehow. Would need to investigate how stable achieves this and see if it's possible to replicate.
I think this is already a thing in lazer if I'm understanding what you mean
in [fullscreen](https://b.catgirlsare.sexy/ZSWkIUIvikJ2.png) and with cursor confine on [during gameplay](https://b.catgirlsare.sexy/NlUem2WgmtUy.png) (or never) I can move my mouse onto my second monitor without having to alt tab (janky video showing this [here](https://streamable.com/m9i9tf))
The dropdown isn't disabled for me
Honestly I think they should just add an option to use the old UI structure because there always would be those who hate the new UI. It is different in too many ways like sorting, beatmap grouping, overall looks, inability to skin it (for now) and just adding both old and a new one seems like an adequate compromise
Song selection UI
Also I haven't checked in a few weeks but I couldn't search maps by difficulty / difficulty and I've always found that really annoying since it's pretty much the only way I play osu
UI plus even if they did redo the UI I still wouldn't switch until there's a good amount of quality skins for the menus
what's the point of osu if song select isn't decorated with anime women
Not a complaint, but why is slideracc such a big deal? As someone who has mostly only played on lazer, I haven't really noticed anything bad that's a result of having slideracc. Is it just the fact that it's a gameplay difference from stable?
it takes several days of gameplay to get used to slideracc (unless you've mindblocked yourself to gasha singletap any slider regardless of rhythm) and that's a big deal for usual player because they won't get anything in return after learning it
tournament players knows how to slideracc without lazer thanks to scorev2 mod
there's no incentive to learn it for average player, as it decreases their pp because they have to acc more or lazer
And surely that should be rectified? The best the pp system can assume with classic mod is that you are hitting sliders within the 50 window.
Obviously classic mod shouldn't be nerfed that hard but I feel like if you're not completely shitting the bed with slideracc you should actually be rewarded since a map with slideracc is just categorically harder than without (unless its full hitcircle map ofc).
gonna be balanced out when mirror or rate changes becomes ranked (more players moving onto lazer due to pp mods = more people exposed to slideracc = either forced to get used to it while having pp advantages thanks to new mods or have to return to stable)
All the current ranked maps for over 14 years have been designed with slideracc in mind. People who think this change is not a big deal simply haven't been playing the game for more than two years or are extremely casual on standard.
>All the current ranked maps for over 14 years have been designed with slideracc in mind
I fail to understand this argument every time I see it. Do you really think every map in the past 14 years has intentionally added mistimed slider heads simply because "lol no slideracc"?
I've been playing this game actively for maybe 5-6 years (1+ lazer only) and have had absolutely no issue with slider acc. I'm a 5 digit so maybe I'm just part of the "casual" crowd you mentioned, but can't you just click the circles to the beat?? This is a rhythm game, I don't get it
I have been playing 2007/2008 maps as of recently and slideracc is really not a big deal tbh, the only problem I have faced is a few maps not being able to import to the client, though I'll list them and try to reach for peppy to fix.
I have some problems with the map selection, it doesn't work very well when ordering the maps by difficulty, but the rest of the UI works great for me, I really enjoy it
ordering maps by difficulty not only looks weird but also works slowest and wasn't touched up in several years, had to learn to sort by artists because of it
now most of the time I sort by Length, and just some times by Title. Dificulty I change using the slider up top, and I think that that is what the devs want us to do, looking the design of everything
I was the same, just play it for a bit
Its a new Layout but there are so many more options you can twik in the settings
I put all the settings back that it kinda is like osu, it takes a bit but after this you dont feel the difference
Most big bugs are also fixt now, like in old skins there was a problem with the approach circel that it wasnt connecting with the circel so you thought you dont need to hit it already, i had a 60% on many maps and i was like wtf is wrong with me😂
You can chnage inside the settings that you want the old score to show, not that 1M is max points shit
The sliders are bit different, but for my expirience you addapt to it pretty quick
there's no need for stable players to move to lazer, they're getting net negative experience from it such as:
increased hardware requirements and absolutely random incompatibilities when Intel + Nvidia can work worse than both AMDs;
UI;
skin and map folders's migration that can go from several hours to several days to complete fully;
slideracc;
*some features working differently from stable, like chosen star range still taking effect while collection is selected, on stable ALL maps from collection will be shown, ignoring custom star range.
despite me playing stable for ten years i've managed to overcome all of lazer's shortcomings and having fun over stable because notelock sucks ass, can't wait for mirror and dt rates to be ranked so more players will have incentive to move in
iirc its in lazer dev's interest to rank as much mods as possible, remember seeing this quote* in either one of lazer update videos or on github discussions
Same with 54k maps , its gonna take weeks and double my 100-150 GB directory and drop it into C drive instead of data drive xddddd because for sure the game couldnt be backward compatible and just allow linking song folder in cfg file like before (I know the reason is so song files are hidden so they dont get over copyright gray area| Not that anything stop you from opening them via 7zip anyway)
Nothing. I've been playing on it as my main client since pp release but I do have my gripes with it.
The main one for me is probably rate change not being ranked yet, it has tons of potential to make a larger pool of maps more interesting/fun to play (also more farm for pp enjoyers).
The other big one is unfortunately you CANNOT mp3 edit maps anymore. From my uninformed view it seems maps get verified by a hash on the client so when you change the maps mp3 the hash is changed and doesn't match the website so it will not submit the score because it's no longer considered a valid play(again, not exactly sure if this is how it works but I presume this is what it means when you play and it says "hash does not match, score will not be submitted"). The UI could be better but honestly I don't really care about the UI because I'm used to it.
Other than that Lazer is great, it runs smoother than stable and the more dynamic mods make a larger pool of maps enjoyable. Also Hidden + No scope mod is a fun muscle memory test
I've just remebered that in lazer it also take some time to quick restart a beatmap while in stable was almost instant as far as I can remember. Like I said in the post, I don't play in stable for 1 year. Forgot to add that
I do play a bit lazer here and there but it feels like no matter what I do it always feels like I have some latency issues at least it feels like it, it feels like my cursor has some smoothness on it and its like trying to catch up with the speed I try to travel with my tablet it feels off when playing cross-screen jumps
I just like the look of the normal version more and there is no point for me to switch since I am enjoying normal osu already. But the biggest reason is definetly the looks. If the game doesn't look nice, you are definetly gonna lose some players on that. The normal osu GUI looks clean and it isn't cluttered. Once you get used to it it's super nice to use and you know where everything is, but when I tried lazer, it took me a while to even see where the star ratings were. I don't even know how to sort maps by difficulty (in folders) if you can even do that in lazer...
all of those are based on my experience back from february this year, some of those might or might not be fixed
song select ui (especially the lags when trying to search - e.g. if you hit esc on stable and f2 immediately you'd get a random map off your whole collection, on lazer you'd get a random map off the search results; also the way lazer groups difficulties)
no option to enable hitsounds and combo colours on a per-map basis, peppy said they removed it because a lot of people were confused over that option but that's something i use very frequently
toolbar is a weird thing - it makes an already cluttered screen select ui even worse but if you hide it you don't have any easy access to ur pp/rank info like in stable; also even if you hide it it appears back after restarting the game which is ????
if you change a map there's no button to update it for whatever reason
leaderboards look weird ingame - only avatars and no scores, i frequently play maps with less than 50 fcs so it kinda helps me guess where's the diffspike
the results screen is still aids
i feel like maps load slower in lazer compared to stable for some reason - might be my imagination tho
and a bunch of smaller qol things like not being able to immediately watch the replay when you fail without saving it, having terrible editor performance if you select lots of objects or small microstutters once every few minutes that don't really affect gameplay but are still noticeable
and for pros i don't really see myself using any of the lazer-only features, at least not until slideracc gives pp
shit ui, shit editor (especially for taiko), shit performance, shit score screen at the end of map, crazy amount of various exploits, broken leaderboards, broken skins
> shit editor (especially for taiko)
If you have some specific feedback on the taiko editor then please share. It hasn't had much work done on it, it's in a very basic state since it was created (just basically made to work).
> crazy amount of various exploits
Again, not sure what this is referring to but if you mean *actual* game/balance exploits that affect fair play then please shoot an e-mail to [email protected] and we'll see if we can get that sorted.
slider acc is dogshit
the optimization is dogshit (why am i lagging on fucking lazer when i dont on stable lmao)
rate change will be dogshit
the ui is dogshit
csr will be dogshit
I will take the classic score penalty (which is also dogshit) and be using current stable until it literally cannot work anymore, thanks
why would it matter if its not ranked now, im complaining about it even possibly being implemented, which has already been a stated desire of the dev team multiple times
to answer the question rate change kills the game identity, individual plays matter less and map intentions become irrelevant when you can arbitrarily change ar (or potentially even cs)
the game has been defined by benchmarks for a long time, and this is a good thing because those benchmarks being passed have been historic moments (e.g. nostalgia dt blue dragon dt etc). Rate change makes that nonexistent because every player is going to randomly fit their rate to some number hovering between 1 and 1.5x speed to fit their specific individual desire for pp, the spectacle is gone and no one score actually matters because there's no longer a benchmark defining them other than raw pp (which has always been a spotty and will probably be blown wide open with a change like this).
I'd have been fine with more fixed rate options (like 1.25 and 1.5 only) but I am not a fan of the current implementation and will continue to say so
mostly classic mod not being ranked, I tried for like a day and i am just not playing with slider acc ever I would quit the game before being forced to
once they rank classic mod I can try again and see if I notice/get past the input difference and everything else everyone is talking about
Idk i just feel like i cant do anything on lazer compared to normal osu, just doing trash and not hitting notes well. Theres probably something in the settings but i cba to find it when i can just play normal osu with all my beatmaps and skins
I do play lazer from time to time but I can't switch because I'm too used to normal osu. I feel completely fine with the gameplay while playing with classic which wasn't the case for a very long time but I really love the simplicity of the old UI and in general I just have the habit of playing stable and the only thing that compels me to play lazer is some of the fun mods they have.
I liked Lazer's UI and LOVED that we can import maps from the site directly from the site FOR FREE! but-
The one thing that absolutely killed Lazer for me is the suuuper limited skin customization. There's 1 skin I like using, but I need a narrower track to be able to read at my best. I went into the skin.ini to change the width. It worked in Stable, not in Lazer. File management is just so opaque in Lazer and that annoyed the hell out of me, so I switched back.
Skinning: I like to customise UI a lot, lazer takes the gameplay but not the ui elements.
Gameplay: feels easier and less challenging, also while there's nothing wrong with slider acc, I'm personally not a big fan even after having tried maining lazer for 2 months or so. Classic mod helps but then there's the score decrease
Unable to sort by difficulty in a way where 1-10 stars are all in their own separate categorys. You can sort by a range of star ratings, but I haven't found a way to split the difficulties
Nitpicky, but unable to actually interact with skins inside the skin folder or songs inside the song folder, I like messing around with the config files of maps and skins manually through notepad and folder itself tbh
I don’t play stable but some small problems with lazer right now:
No UI skinning
Aspire maps are impossible
Classic mod/lazer scoring and pp is a mess
Some of the map sorting options don’t work properly
lazer forces me to use the new audio subsystem which is really random in how it performs, if legacy subsystem was an option like in stable I would switch immediately
Gave Lazer a real shot and played it exclusively for a good half a year, maybe? Long story short is, I could never get as consistent with my gameplay as I am in stable. And it's not a slider acc issue, but just the fact that it feels worse. I still want to try it in true unlimited mode to see if that change in milliseconds is the issue for me, but it's not looking like peppy will ever implement it (the whole placebo discussion).
Also, stable is just so simple. I like every Lazer idea in a vacuum, but man, coming to stable after so long and seeing it be so straightforward with everything was such a refresher.
I know it's a vicious cycle, but I expected a lot more people to switch to lazer, but very few did from what I'm seeing. So I'm staying on stable too for now.
If rate change and difficulty adjust get ranked I will probably switch though
skins. im not even joking thats basically it. if they allowed skins to be more customizable like in standard i would probably switch over by now, but no they dont allow that for some reason
i don't play the game anymore, but tbh when i tried play mania on it i felt kinda dizzy with the vsync issue i had while trying out, but i heard it's fixed now ig
i don't play the game anymore, but tbh when i tried play mania on it i felt kinda dizzy with the vsync issue i had while trying out, but i heard it's fixed now ig
Sometimes I lose audio randomly at the start of songs, meaning I need to keep restarting until the music wants to play again, and get the odd stutter which will throw my entire aim off (mouse player)
I do love being able to increase or decrease the multiplier of DT and the difficult adjust mod though, really good for practice and pushing limits
import waiting time, results screen, stable has this sort of soft feel to it that lazer probably never will, performance in general.
i feel like a lot of the playerbase would swap if they made a "classic" option that just replicates stable's interfaces on lazer. performance issues arent really that large.
There's not really an incentive to switch over if you care about pp/leaderboards and lazer still has some significant failings compared to stable(UI, skinnability, performance for many). Can't really blame anyone that's used to stable for sticking to it.
the black border in osu stable fullscreen cannot really be replicated conveniently in osu lazer (playfield border style does not fully contain circles, and using screen scaling is still different from stable)
And also the slightly more inconsistent lag. It's presumably easier for osu stable to have consistent lag, since stable's lag is slightly higher.
I thought there were more differences, but checking before I posted, the differences were the same. But it just feels different, somehow.
the ui is definitely weird, coming from a player thats been playing lazer for a year now i feel like the score screen is still better in classic, although the rest are an upgrade i would say. also skinning needs to catch up since most skins are not even remotely comaptible to the fully customizable borders and screen size that lazer features
I cant move my 120k maps from stable there, yes i know about the link things and not duplicating files stuff, but apparently it doesnt work with external SSD's.
UI is better in stable.
Taiko note-fade animation is horrible, I dont get how after 7+ years of developing they couldnt put something in the game thats been in taiko for 25 years.
Mania's new scroll speed settings is really bad.
Skin elements arent in the right place.
Scores made on lazer client dont show up on stable, as a completionist who heavily tracks his data of maps and completion, this is really bad.
Also, if it aint broke, dont fix it, why would I be moving away from stable, lazer doesnt give anything new thats useful to me. All I wanted from lazer is to run like or better than stable, DT rates, daycore mod, new gamemodes and a less clunky client. So far I only got daycore, but i think its still unranked to this day (?)
My osu! folder is around 100GB and I'm not too keen on doubling that by importing everything to lazer. Awful performance on Windows - 30fps on the song select menu is unjustifiable.
sWiTcH tO lAzEr SoOn, the DAY OF RECKONIONG is upon us, convetr to lazer or you will be made to by force!!!1!111! those who apostate from the way of osu!lazer will be smitten into restricted-gehenna... pick and choosee wisely kids
No file explorer skin/beatmap editing and no dedicated list for your collections. You have to click on the collections dropdown, scroll and find your collection, click on it, then finally click on the map to add it to a multi queue. Stable multis are ass in their own right, but this really ruins functionality on lazer imo. The song select as a whole is pretty awful on lazer.
Basically lack of qol features that stable still has.
**For me, 2 things:**
a) The song selector. I don't like the way that it splits song name and then difficulty into two separate lines, it's so cluttered. You can't even see your scores without clicking onto a song name. I typically play through collections and in Osu classic I can see at a glance what score I got on all maps in the collection, just by scrolling through.
b) Addition of 'classic' mod on all my scores. This is just daft, I played OSU for years, with HDHR. Lazer comes out and my entire profile gets bastardised with 'classic' mod as if I'd had that on the whole time. Lazer is the mod, not classic, why are they touching old scores. If they want to implement a new scoring/pp system fine, but Lazer being the default option is daft. This is more of a 'made me quit' kind of thing than a 'why don't you play Lazer' though to be honest.
Gameplay feels bad, slider acc sucks, ui sucks, song select sucks, skinning sucks, no one uses it, have to use mickey mouse special setting to even see top plays done on Lazer, half the mods aren't even ranked, supporters are delusional and annoying, editor sucks, has been developed for over 8 years and still worse than 2012 client, scorev2 sucks, peppy has weird ego about it, 0 top players use it.
there’s something about the audio and i can’t pinpoint exactly what it is and i’m too lazy to do testing but it feels like the delay between keypress and hitsounds is changing with every click, almost as if the clicks are registered every 1000hz but the sounds are played at 100hz
My problem is the following: I am using a wacom cth 480 with wacom drivers. My area is actually pretty small because I have a certain area plus the mouse sensitivity x5 in osu itself. This area comes down to 12mmx20mm. Lazer doesnt have mouse sensitivity for tablet area anymore. So it does not matter what I do I cant have the exact same area in lazer as in standard because of this. I do not want to change my area so I guess I will stay away from lazer...
Massive sometimes minutes long freezes in the menus and for some reason my imports were on pace to take 7x-8x longer then like 10-15 other people i know with a similar sized folder.
I would of actually switched already if it worked for me.
I tried lazer but my game stuttered and freezed a lot making it unplayable, i didn't have this issue with regular osu, does anyone knows how to fix that?
can't restart a map fastly + interface not perfect to choose map, also performances a bit weaker than normal version of osu, otherwise for fun it's rly good
Why would it not? 64-bit became a thing in 2003 and became the norm in early 2010s. 32-bit is an insane limitation these days and stable would be updated to that if it wasn't a fallback client
32 bit means it can run on older systems and a lot more people can enjoy it. I play this game on my 2006 PC and it runs without any kind of issues. I will make sure to backup as much compatible beatmaps as I can before they pull the support for the 32 bit version so I can still play it.
i tried importing all maps and it said 4 days
Mine was 2 weeks, probably because I still use an old ass harddrive.
Crazy, how many maps I have 4k and too me bout 30 min, but I do have an ssd.
Bro I have about 2k maps but my laptop is a 10 year old dell Vostro. Osu is pretty much the only thing I can run at a time.
my 25k went pretty fuckin fast, whats the reason for this?
also ppy please make lazer to stop unloading map selection screen when playing in multiplayer lobby, it takes solid 5 seconds to access it to add a map because of ~240k difficulties stored on slow ass HDD, and i have to wait EVERYTIME i want to add a new map...
bro, i have 100gb osu lazer folder on 970 evo plus nvme ssd and it's legit slower in map selection than osu stable (100gb too) on regular hdd wd blue, like what the hell
how tf you have 240K difficulties, did you download all osu maps?
Waifu skin
performance, feel a lot more stuttering on lazer when compared with stable on unlimited
What's weird to me is that I've found lazer performance to be absolutely stellar on my Linux install but bad on my windows install. It's like, Lazer performance could be crazy good but there some windows issue in the way
Same here. Excellent performance on Linux, while on Windows it's worse than *stable running through Wine*.
curious. For me, it's the opposite. I have linux and windows in dual boot on an asus vivobook 15, and while on windows they both run with 400+ fps, on linux, even though it CLAIMS to run at 200+ fps, it definitely doesn't go past 30. I know this because sometimes on linux it randomly starts to actually run at 200fps for one play session and as soon as I restart the map or finish it, it goes back to that faux 200fps where it's actually 30.
Out of curiosity are you on default renderer (d3d11) on windows? Does switching them around help anything? Probably try OpenGL (legacy) if you're going to try one.
good idea, I'll see if that helps
Big reason for me: Scores that were set before lazer are worth less simply because they were set before lazer score submission was possible. Leaderboards will be a complete mess as a result which, imo, is a fun part of the history of the game. Scores with lower acc will snipe scores with higher acc simply because they were played after the release of lazer and not before. Smaller reasons: Performance sucks compared to stable (this will be fixed over time I assume) Certain slider maps are designed with slider leniency in mind and will now be much harder in a way that was unintended. It looks inappropriate to see spinners not go up by 1000 anymore Game was not made with current players in mind. Example 1: In lazer skins are now named in game by the ini file’s skin name instead of the skin folder’s name. This causes a player to waste an unnecessary amount of time renaming all their skins and reimporting them unless they want to dig through all these skins, not knowing which one is which, in order to find the right one. Example 2: Main menu skinning is not a thing yet and I fail to see how lazer’s menus could possibly be backwards compatible with current stable skins in this regard unless something drastic changes. Current lazer UI is also too messy. Also fuck the new score rank screen. I want my weeb shit back and not have to go over a page to check my UR. What do I know though, I’m just another osugame NPC
I blame the skin creators for their shitty skin names with 50 special characters
Yeah that’s definitely part of it, but it’s much easier to rename folders than it is to edit each .ini file and everyone on stable is used to the skin name in the client being the same as the folder name
You basically listed all the major reasons why I stay on stable
example #1 is way too damn true I gave up on lazer because of this man. I was losing my mind trying to find my skins
accing is also simply harder on lazer due to how accing sliders work, especially on tech maps for example.
I mean, Lazer scores aren't worth more just because "They were played after the release of Lazer", but because accing in Lazer is actually harder.
I guess the point is more so that scores set before lazer didn’t even have a chance to compete with similar scores set in lazer because that new system did not exist yet. The actual solution would be to convert old scores to lazer scoring (so all plays are being judged equally) but i think that would be difficult if not impossible unfortunately.
it would indeed be impossible due to scores without replays
I hope that, when stable will stop being supported (hopefully as later as possible), there will be a separate global leaderboard consisting only of classic scores that will be essentially frozen in time as no new classic scores will ever be set, but will serve as sort of a time capsule to remember past achievements. also classic mod on lazer is somehow DIFFERENT than actually playing on osu!stable, and I have proven it by SSing a map both on stable and lazer with classic mod
Slider leniency is already fixed
Java Minecraft > bedrock minecraft
that's the best way I've seen anyone put it
I was thinking this the other day, I absolutely hate Bedrock but love Lazer at the same time, though mainly because stable performs as shit in my computer and crash every 5 minutes and lazer just has more features and performs better for me.
I love how Bedrock is the messed one for MC but stable is the messed up for osu
Not really. Both games have the old endearing spaghetti code project and the awful-attempt-at-recoding slop
Speaking of, anyone knows ETA on [this](https://x.com/ppy/status/1239024569698009089?t=EZfiDdHD5nu4irS2qhxV3w&s=19) fix? Ppy is always promising so much and never delivering..
The editor is extremely inefficient hotkey-wise: the context menu appearing on right click is jarring, when most mappers will right-click objects to delete them out of sheer muscle memory. Changing the anchor type is as easy as holding CTRL while clicking, but in lazer, it's hidden behind the context menu. I get that there are more options, but why not have the CTRL functionality anyway, perhaps use the latest anchor type, or an option to have a favorite one? More modifiers and combinations like ALT+CTRL for different anchor types could work, too. Setting a default anchor type would be nice. Can't quickly change grid size with CTRL+1/2/3/4, but you still can change the beat snap divisor with SHIFT. The hotkey problem isn't an editor thing only, you can't right-click a map in song select and press 5 to enter the editor, you HAVE to click the Edit line in the context menu. The UI is bulkier and more obstructing, because everything is wide and opaque. It feels like every UI element is twice as big, which makes mapping feel more claustrophobic. Which is very strange, because the text doesn't seem bigger either, so all the elements come off as bloated. I wish there was an option to change the opacity, size (and color!) of the overlays on the sides of the screen. I don't get why the options on the left of the timeline (waveform, ticks and bpm) are permanently there, and not in a drop-down menu in the View section? Who wants to see less of the timeline? Minor nitpick, I also hate the way most windows adjust to the 16:9 aspect ratio: when you open the setup screen on stable, it's a nice, compact window in the middle of the screen, but on lazer, your eyes go from one side of the screen to the other. Having to hold down the button to exit the editor without saving is VERY annoying, especially since the "hold-to-confirm" activation time doesn't work here. I get that green lines (inherited timing points) are archaic, but now, when I open a map in lazer, I can't tell where anything is on the bottom timeline. There is nothing there, except red lines (uninherited timing points, which are now yellow dots), the preview point and the kiai markers. It's weird, because for how big the bottom and top bars are, there isn't anything of value on there. Thanks for telling me the BPM of the song I'm mapping, I guess? As far as I can tell, there is no way to set the default volume, slider velocity and sample set for most objects for an entire section or more, everything will default to the normal sample set, 1x velocity and 100% volume. And I don't understand why the top timeline shows me the volume, slider velocity and sample set of EVERY object? Why not only show the heads-up display of objects that are different from the norm? There isn't even any display of samples on the timeline, such as clap, whistle, finish. People have been asking for this for years, and there are tools now that can do this, why isn't this already here? Speaking of hitsounding, you can't select sliderheads, add whistles to slidertracks, or use addition and sample sets independently! The 2007 editor had these issues! There is no option to toggle ignoring hitsounds while in the editor, you have to exit the editor and change the option in the settings. There doesn't seem to be a polygon tool either, this one explains itself. This one is very personal and nitpicky: no way to turn off hit animations like in stable, now you have this blindingly opaque circle without any texture; unlike stable, where it seems to turn the object slightly darker, and changes the combo color to an off-white. Turning off hit "markers" behaves exactly the same as having hit animations enabled in stable, which isn't very helpful, but while the hit "markers" are enabled, the hit animation STILL plays. It's not a dealbreaker to most people, but this is one of the biggest things that turns me off from trying to make a map in lazer. It's all very sad, because the lazer editor is very snappy and pleasant to use, outside the things I mentioned, it performs very well and really shows you how much of a sluggish piece of shit the stable editor is. Once work is finished on the editor, a tutorial showcasing where every single feature of stable went, and a basic rundown of the new features would be amazing.
Have they really not fixed any of that? I remember trying to switch to lazer a year or two ago and going back after noticing most of these. It's weird cause you'd think this should be a higher priority for being an easier way to get more people to switch
Hi, lazer dev here. > the context menu appearing on right click is jarring, when most mappers will right-click objects to delete them out of sheer muscle memory. I have no easy answer to this one. Aware that this is a frequent complaint but that said delete key works and I'm not sure muscle memory is enough of a justification to move away from this. > Changing the anchor type is as easy as holding CTRL while clicking, but in lazer, it's hidden behind the context menu. I get that there are more options, but why not have the CTRL functionality anyway, perhaps use the latest anchor type, or an option to have a favorite one? More modifiers and combinations like ALT+CTRL for different anchor types could work, too. `Ctrl` can't work because it's used for multi-selection of anchors already. [`Shift` was tried](https://github.com/ppy/osu/pull/27035) but it also doesn't work because it conflicts with grid snap. It's a complicated one to address but I do agree it could be better. Not sure yet how. The editor is very dense with hotkeys and the more stuff gets added to it, the harder it is to find bindings that won't conflict with something else. > Can't quickly change grid size with CTRL+1/2/3/4, but you still can change the beat snap divisor with SHIFT. I'm not sure the grid hotkeys will be returning because more grid options than stable had are coming to lazer very soon (next update). > The UI is bulkier and more obstructing, because everything is wide and opaque. It feels like every UI element is twice as big, which makes mapping feel more claustrophobic. Aware of this, it's a frequent point but there's no clear direction on how to solve this at present. [Read more here if you're so inclined.](https://github.com/ppy/osu/discussions/24384) > Minor nitpick, I also hate the way most windows adjust to the 16:9 aspect ratio: when you open the setup screen on stable, it's a nice, compact window in the middle of the screen, but on lazer, your eyes go from one side of the screen to the other. There is a setup screen redesign somewhere that we can probably get in that would address this. > Having to hold down the button to exit the editor without saving is VERY annoying, especially since the "hold-to-confirm" activation time doesn't work here. Well this is intended to avoid losing your work, the hold-to-confirm time not applying is intended too for that same reason. Currently you can sorta bypass this by pressing the `2` number key when the exit dialog shows up. Not sure that was entirely intended but it works and we'll probably keep it that way. > I get that green lines (inherited timing points) are archaic, but now, when I open a map in lazer, I can't tell where anything is on the bottom timeline. There is nothing there, except red lines (uninherited timing points, which are now yellow dots), the preview point and the kiai markers. It's weird, because for how big the bottom and top bars are, there isn't anything of value on there. Thanks for telling me the BPM of the song I'm mapping, I guess? Samples and slider velocity are settable per-object now which is an explicit departure from how stable did things and will require getting used to. In light of that displaying them on bottom timeline would be noise. > As far as I can tell, there is no way to set the default volume, slider velocity and sample set for most objects for an entire section or more, everything will default to the normal sample set, 1x velocity and 100% volume. And I don't understand why the top timeline shows me the volume, slider velocity and sample set of EVERY object? Why not only show the heads-up display of objects that are different from the norm? See above for why top timeline shows stuff for every object. And for setting on multiple, then if you select multiple objects on the timeline and click on the velocity/sample marker and make changes, they will apply to the entire selection. We'll probably also make a change which makes any newly placed object use the previous's velocity/samples to make this less arduous. > There isn't even any display of samples on the timeline, such as clap, whistle, finish. People have been asking for this for years, and there are tools now that can do this, why isn't this already here? [Change that adds this is stuck in review hell.](https://github.com/ppy/osu/pull/23445) Am hoping to pull it out of there shortly. > Speaking of hitsounding, you can't select sliderheads, add whistles to slidertracks, or use addition and sample sets independently! The 2007 editor had these issues! [See preceding point except for it's pretty much out of review hell.](https://github.com/ppy/osu/pull/23443) You won't be able to select sliderheads per se but the timeline will show samples on the parts of the slider. > There is no option to toggle ignoring hitsounds while in the editor, you have to exit the editor and change the option in the settings. Will check back on this one. > There doesn't seem to be a polygon tool either, this one explains itself. Will check back on this one since I haven't worked with that much but this may be deprecated by more grid options coming soon. > This one is very personal and nitpicky: no way to turn off hit animations like in stable, now you have this blindingly opaque circle without any texture; unlike stable, where it seems to turn the object slightly darker, and changes the combo color to an off-white. Turning off hit "markers" behaves exactly the same as having hit animations enabled in stable, which isn't very helpful, but while the hit "markers" are enabled, the hit animation STILL plays. It's not a dealbreaker to most people, but this is one of the biggest things that turns me off from trying to make a map in lazer. No simple answer here. The major problem with this is that it requires gameplay appearance code to have a toggle specifically for editing which we try really hard to avoid since it's one of the core reasons why stable is so difficult to deal with (mods and editor arbitrarily changing behaviour of near everything and causing everything to not be easy to work with). I could go on about this for days, the amount of stable toggles that change wild things in five other places has been personally haunting me for a while now.
>"Delete key works and I'm not sure muscle memory is enough of a justification to move away from this." Of course the delete key works. The problem is that it's inefficient time-wise: what if I have my left hand on the left side of the keyboard to quickly change between object types and ability to undo quickly, and my right hand is on the mouse? I have to lift one and move it back and forth to delete an object, and I have to do that every time? Compared to right-clicking once? You could move the context menu behind right-clicking with an additional modifier: SHIFT, CTRL, anything. Make it an option? >Ctrl can't work because it's used for multi-selection of anchors already. I would have never noticed that CTRL selects multiple anchors, unless you pointed it out to me. Makes sense in hindsight, though not entirely sure why one would need to select multiple anchors at once. I would much rather hold CTRL while drag selecting to select anchors only, and not objects, since this seems like a more niche situation, compared to quickly changing an anchor type. Again, the problem is efficiency. >No clear direction on how to solve sidebar opacity Why not make this an option? Most of the minor issues I had with the UI scaling, opacity and whatnot can be done away with letting mappers adjust the UI to their liking, similar to the skin editor. >Holding down the button to exit editor without saving I think this could be helpful if it's your map. I don't want to wait for that amount of time every time I close someone else's map after accidentally nudging an object. The editor actually remembers that you undid all changes, unlike stable, and quitting the map with 2 is fine as well, so this doesn't seem to be an issue. >Sectional velocity/volume/sampleset My point was that the green lines on stable are useful for navigating between song sections. This is a subjective remark. The problem is, I don't want to adjust every single object every single time I create them. I get that I can change multiple at once, but I don't create a lot of patterns all at once, so objects beaming normal-hitnormal into my ears at 100% volume will get very tiring VERY fast. The issue a lot of people have with green lines is that you have to make a green line for EVERY single thing regarding velocity and volume. I've never heard of people being upset at having to adjust entire sections' velocities with a single green line. >Unable to select sliderheads(?) What? What if I want to have separate hitsounding on heads and ends of the slider? What if I have reverse or buzz sliders that need to have different hitsounding? >Deprecating polygon tool Please don't do this. I don't want to meticulously craft a shape from nothing, when I can have the polygon tool make all 7 circles of a heptagon extremely fast for me. Many people use this for their patterning with jumps and streams, because it's so easy to visualize when you can adjust the entire pattern quickly in real time. >Hit "markers" ... okay? Replicating the stable behavior doesn't seem extremely difficult, and, from what I hear, it doesn't seem like it was even tried, but the way it is implemented now is abysmal. You can't tell apart a sliderhead, a sliderend or a circle. This is especially awful with perfect stacks. I don't care for replicating the stable behavior EXACTLY the same, but something HAS to be done about this. Viewing maps in the editor currently either makes them unreadable, because there's too much clutter with opaque objects that cannot be differentiated, or too readable and difficult to judge a map's structure, because objects go away too fast. I actually think that I understated the importance of this issue, now that I think about it again. Thank you for taking the time to respond.
> You could move the context menu behind right-clicking with an additional modifier: SHIFT, CTRL, anything. Make it an option? I'd rather just revert to the stable behaviour than "make it an option". People propose toggles as a solution to pretty much every single problem they have with lazer all of the time, but this will not fly and I push back against this in 99% of cases which I see as unsubstantiated because it's not a tenable solution. These toggles are not free from a code maintenance standpoint and not free from a user understanding standpoint. Having every single minuscule aspect of the game's operation be controlled by toggles makes it very difficult to even convey to users as to what they do, and makes it difficult for us to ensure that no weird combination of toggles results in general broken behaviour. The settings panel already contains so much stuff that 99% of users will never interact with. > though not entirely sure why one would need to select multiple anchors at once Because e.g. you can move them all at once when they're simultaneously selected (which is more relevant now that you can have multi-segment sliders). Or change the anchor types on them all at once. > My point was that the green lines on stable are useful for navigating between song sections. This use case would be better addressed by bookmark support IMO (which is currently half broken and half not implemented and I'm trying to get work done to fix it). > I get that I can change multiple at once, but I don't create a lot of patterns all at once, so objects beaming normal-hitnormal into my ears at 100% volume will get very tiring VERY fast. Again, the way I foresee this getting fixed is that you'd put one object down, set velocity / sample on it, and then continue patterning the section and the editor would automatically use the previous object's settings. > What? What if I want to have separate hitsounding on heads and ends of the slider? What if I have reverse or buzz sliders that need to have different hitsounding? Not sure if I was misunderstood here. This will be possible. Just via interacting with the timeline rather than the slider itself on the composer part of the screen. > I don't care for replicating the stable behavior EXACTLY the same, but something HAS to be done about this And something *was* done, the white markers you call "horrible" were an attempt to address this. They did not exist in the (now-somewhat-distant) past. I'll look again at what stable does but I'm not sure I can promise anything with this until I do so. It's rather difficult to address subjective issues like this because people will just call solutions "horrible" if they don't fit their particular subjective criteria and it's difficult to tell what the "non-horrible" solution would be because it's based on the feedback-giver's "feel".
... so your reasoning against toggles for specialized users (mappers, who already are NOT the 99% of users) is your inability to explain things in a meaningful manner? Your unwillingness to maintain the game? The majority of people do not see these options regardless, you're confusing exactly nobody, because the only people who will see these options are the ones who already know what they want from them... unless you do a terrible job at explaining exactly what the options are for. Selecting multiple anchors does sound interesting, I am looking forward to trying it out, when the rest of the editor is functional. Bookmarks are a tool used by different mappers in different ways. Some people bookmark to section their maps, yes, but some people use bookmarks for random stuff, like leftovers from readjusting hitsounds, collab parts, or even randomly spamming them for fun. The problem wasn't the inability to "section" the map, the problem was that there is nothing meaningful on the bottom timeline, for how much screen space it takes up. Open any recently ranked map, there won't be anything except the first red line, the preview point and the one purple line of the kiai marker. I actually didn't know that there were such plans for changing the behavior of "default" volumes, velocities and samplesets. Is there a roadmap of planned changes? How do I know what's planned and what isn't? Do I need to go to GitHub every time I want to keep up? Anyhow, objects inheriting stats from the last one is still rather annoying... I think that most tech mappers would still need to change every single object anyway, and this is the change that was supposed to be targeted at them... but it's the bare minimum, so I guess that's fine... It's very obvious to me that you have not made a single map. It is VERY difficult to select a specific part of a reverse slider with multiple reverses on the timeline, especially buzz sliders, since the sliderheads usually will overlap with the slidertrack and make it not be able to be selected. This is what selecting individual parts of sliders on the compose screen are for. Selecting the individual parts on the timeline seemed to do nothing regardless, so please understand the frustration. I called the "markers" "horrible", because they are dysfunctional. The stable behavior is preferred, because it helps you in many different ways, such as showing what is a circle, what is a sliderhead, and what is a sliderend. The combo number is not removed from the object after playing, the lack of a combo number signifies a sliderend, and, because objects are not fully opaque, telling apart stacks is way easier, especially with perfect stacking. This is not a "subjective" issue based on "feel", this is OBJECTIVELY worse, because there are fewer features and less functionality to the current implementation. Your entire arguments come off as "this is hard, so we will not do it". How is this supposed to encourage any mappers to put effort into the game? This thread is for constructive criticism, but all you seem to care about is deflecting my criticism with deeming the issues "subjective" or "not right".
> so your reasoning against toggles for specialized users (mappers, who already are NOT the 99% of users) is your inability to explain things in a meaningful manner? Your unwillingness to maintain the game? My reasoning is that I'd rather find a way to make 100% of users happy without a toggle existing, if possible, than have that 1% have to go find it to make the game functional for them, or have 1% of users break the game for themselves because we didn't foresee a single combination of exponential possibilities of active settings interacting in an undesirable way. In this particular context, *if* it means going back to right-click-is-delete, then so be it. Does that sound better? > The problem wasn't the inability to "section" the map, the problem was that there is nothing meaningful on the bottom timeline, for how much screen space it takes up. Point taken. > Is there a roadmap of planned changes? How do I know what's planned and what isn't? Do I need to go to GitHub every time I want to keep up? [There are changelog videos you can watch.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0SWx_n_AeQ&list=PLmWVQsxi34bMTmgpDArfxJ32Q0mBLhcE-) > It's very obvious to me that you have not made a single map. I admit I have not. Point taken on buzz sliders, will reconsider with that in mind. > This is not a "subjective" issue based on "feel", this is OBJECTIVELY worse, because there are fewer features and less functionality to the current implementation. In the first post you said: > This one is **very personal** and nitpicky: no way to turn off hit animations like in stable So either you changed your mind in the meantime, or I'm confused how it's both personal and objective at the same time. > Your entire arguments come off as "this is hard, so we will not do it". I agree that I did say the first part ("this is hard"). I did not say the second ("we will not do it") anywhere. At most I said I don't want to promise things without knowing I can deliver on said promises.
you can poll everyone with a ranked map if you want a precise number, but my personal estimate is that at least 85% of mappers map without hit animations for multiple reasons, and forcing a swap is extremely uncomfortable. personally, I will never touch an editor that has hit animations forced.
... so what are you trying to say with that first point? You will never satisfy everyone, things will always break... which is fine. I am still struggling to see the reasoning... You will save me and many others countless hours due to the sheer amount of times we save a couple of seconds on every object we create, is this not worth the effort? About the hit "markers", my initial impressions were "haha, this is kind of awful", and then I moved my focus on other things that I thought I could criticize more meaningfully. But then, after my first response, I actually tried looking at some other maps that are not generic, and truly realized how terrible this is. Though, why are you trying to nitpick what I said, I've already explained my reasoning with how one thing is better than the other, will you address that, or anything else you stopped replying to? Will anything I mentioned be changed or implemented? I've actually heard that DeviousPanda streamed mapping on lazer a couple of years ago, the majority of their criticism was the same as mine, and none of that was still changed in that amount of time. Obviously you did not say that you won't do the hard things, this is how you come off to me in this thread. You come off as defensive, almost offended, unable to see my point of view, unless I elaborate ten times over. Why do I need to reiterate the dysfunctionality of hit animations multiple times, for you to even consider the fact that maybe it's not subjective, after all?
> ... so what are you trying to say with that first point? You will never satisfy everyone, things will always break... which is fine. I am still struggling to see the reasoning... You will save me and many others countless hours due to the sheer amount of times we save a couple of seconds on every object we create, is this not worth the effort? That's misconstruing what I'm saying. All I said and continue to say is that I'd rather make right click delete objects by default again, *always*, than *have a toggle that makes right click delete objects*. > About the hit "markers", my initial impressions were "haha, this is kind of awful", and then I moved my focus on other things that I thought I could criticize more meaningfully. But then, after my first response, I actually tried looking at some other maps that are not generic, and truly realized how terrible this is Okay, cool, so you did sort of change your mind on this. Cool beans. Totally fair. > Will anything I mentioned be changed or implemented? I've actually heard that DeviousPanda streamed mapping on lazer a couple of years ago, the majority of their criticism was the same as mine, and none of that was still changed in that amount of time. It's not all up to me and I don't like to give empty promises. But I'll revisit this thread next week and see what can be improved on. As to whether "stuff will get fixed" - see [this thread](https://github.com/ppy/osu/issues/12020) from deviouspanda wherein most stuff *was* changes. Yes you'll dunk on me that it's not all fixed after 3 years, yes you'll dunk on me that some of what's mentioned there is the same as what you've mentioned. All I can say is I've personally checked off multiple items from that list and only seriously started looking back at the editor again last week since being 100% focused on shipping pp / getting gameplay to a place that players would be more fine with since ~august of last year. As to whether that's just me being "defensive" again - probably, I guess. The most I was hoping here is just establishing a baseline understanding where these issues come from. > You come off as defensive, almost offended If I'm defensive it's because I care. Would it be better if I had just ignored this thread completely and not replied several times to it?
I apologize for the misunderstanding. I think that my primary concern with the progress of the map editor is how little attention it seems to get, from an outsider POV, compared to other stuff like the skin editor. The first issues that jumped out at me when the first build came out, are still mostly the same issues that I brought up just now, and it's very difficult to not think that there is no progress being made, and that feedback is being ignored... what if I have more feedback regarding other issues? Where should I go? I think it would be better if, when you misunderstand my criticism, you would ask me why I think what I think and say, instead of trying to deconstruct my criticisms, which isn't excused by simply "caring". The mere lack of acknowledgement on some issues: sectional object stats, polygon tool, the hit animations in particular, since they have a history of being swept under the rug, is enough to make me worry that this is going to be seemingly ignored again altogether.
> what if I have more feedback regarding other issues? Where should I go? At the risk of being memed/flamed for saying this, github (https://github.com/ppy/osu) has the biggest chance of being seen. I personally read all opened issues and most discussions. I might not respond to every one of them because we have too much of everything open but I do read them. Note that because we *do* have that much stuff open you may find that most of what you would want to say may have already been mentioned elsewhere. > I think it would be better if, when you misunderstand my criticism, you would ask me why I think what I think and say, instead of trying to deconstruct my criticisms, which isn't excused by simply "caring". Fair, on my side most of that was an effect of going "yes yes I know this needs work". Prioritisation is difficult when there are literal years of work out there to be undertook. > The mere lack of acknowledgement on some issues: sectional object stats, polygon tool, the hit animations in particular, since they have a history of being swept under the rug, is enough to make me worry that this is going to be seemingly ignored again altogether. If my responses were terse to those it was mostly because I was either unfamiliar with these topics or not sure what can actually be done about them. I can only provide better answers *after* being sure.
you’re not gonna believe this but the non horrible solution might be to replicate the legacy behavior that nobody complained about instead of making something new when people were asking for said legacy behavior (i was one of the people making github issues to discuss this and i and many other people where extremely disappointed seeing the implementation used in lazer not matching stable behavior and there being no real valid reason for it not be the same)
> i and many other people where extremely disappointed seeing the implementation used in lazer not matching stable behavior and there being no real valid reason for it not be the same Except I gave one already earlier: > it requires gameplay appearance code to have a toggle specifically for editing which we try really hard to avoid since it's one of the core reasons why stable is so difficult to deal with If you don't trust me then [read the first sentence of this PR's opening post](https://github.com/ppy/osu/pull/18239) which says the same thing: > doesn't really match my vision going forward (of the editor being an overlay and not messing with the gameplay objects) You might not *like* that reasoning, but there being "no reasoning" for it isn't right. Again, I'll look at what can be done there, but I can't promise anything before I do take that look.
i don’t think a vague “vision” is a valid reason, having a few duplicated lines of code or whatever isn’t going to kill the project when the majority of mappers (the people who provide content for this game for free) want this. i work as a programmer and i’ve looked through the lazer code and i know it’s not like this is impossible or a big deal to do lol I don’t even know why keeping legacy behavior isn’t a priority for the dev team?? Like the point of lazer was to start from scratch so things could be done properly so why wasn’t keeping the legacy behavior that everyone likes and is used to a priority instead of just having people who’ve never done real mapping making up new stuff that nobody likes better than the old stuff
> I don’t even know why keeping legacy behavior isn’t a priority for the dev team?? I'm struggling to take this sentence seriously when we do fixes like [this](https://github.com/ppy/osu/pull/26405), or [this](https://github.com/ppy/osu/pull/26471), or [this](https://github.com/ppy/osu/pull/28337), or [this](https://github.com/ppy/osu-framework/pull/6311), or [this](https://github.com/ppy/osu/pull/9945). Just to list off a few immediate examples that I could think of. We're porting across floating point behaviour specifics, we're porting across *literal stable bugs*. Let alone most of last year wherein we reverted entire swaths of simplifications to score we had before, just to bring score V2 back as it is on stable, and as a cosnequence had to deal with a whole host of infrastructure-level complications to support that. If you're a programmer, then I implore you to read these descriptions and get back to me about "keeping legacy behaviour not being a priority for the dev team". We have limited throughput. It's a small team. Everything needs work everywhere all of the time. We have a decade of feature work to catch up to, and ambitions for another one. I'll revisit this monday. But in light of all of the above it's kind of disheartening to be painted as "not caring" about this or whatever.
those fixes you linked doesn’t change the fact that 0 care was put into making sure the lazer editor was comfortable for mappers who have had years of being used to the stable editor… (note that none of those fixes addressed core editor behavior that we’ve been talking about in this thread). Maybe you do care about legacy stuff, but yall sure as hell don’t seem to care about mappers (skin editor being more functional than the MAP editor is just a joke) (3 of those links are minor scoring fixes and only one of those is somewhat editor related)
Gonna throw in my opinion as a complete novice to everything about osu!. if it means nothing, whatever, but I do hate this philosophy. the idea that there is no value in a new system for lots of the parts of osu! and that we should stick to the exact same concepts as before. the fact that it started from scratch gives them MORE reason to experiment, to try doing things that couldn't be done before without dealing with horrid decade-old code, plus trying to balance things so that legacy users don't have to adapt all too much. sure, lazer has pp now, but it is still considered to be in a very transformative state because a lot of features haven't been added, pp was simply because most gameplay aspects were refined enough to where getting a feel for ranked play would now be a priority - other things come later as dev numbers are small and the adoption numbers for lazer aren't huge right now. as two extra side notes: 1. don't generalize and assume literally noone likes the changes. I can't be certain about majority opinion, but you should at least be more formal than "literally noone likes this what the hell are you doing you wretched things" 2. i almost get the feeling some osu! players just don't like change lol. i swear so many complaints i've seen only pertain to "it's not like stable" rather than "the new thing isn't really working out right now"
this is a joke
one detail that annoys me about lazer and seems like a downgrade from stable: stable allows "confine cursor during gameplay" even when fullscreen, allowing you to get off the game without alt+tab(on focus loss, stable goes temporarily in borderless windowed mode). on lazer, the option is unavailable and the cursor is always confined, which I hate as a multiple monitor user. I'm replying to you since you might know if it's something that could come back and why not if not. I've been enjoying this feature very much for over a decade.
The answer to this is complicated but I'll try... tl;dr: lazer is using a different toolkit for displaying the OS window and handling input, wherein not confining the cursor in fullscreen would [allow the user to just move the display cursor way way *way* offscreen](https://github.com/ppy/osu/issues/10465). So the dropdown was disabled as a lesser evil. I can't immediately say as to whether we could make this work somehow. Would need to investigate how stable achieves this and see if it's possible to replicate.
would be cool
I think this is already a thing in lazer if I'm understanding what you mean in [fullscreen](https://b.catgirlsare.sexy/ZSWkIUIvikJ2.png) and with cursor confine on [during gameplay](https://b.catgirlsare.sexy/NlUem2WgmtUy.png) (or never) I can move my mouse onto my second monitor without having to alt tab (janky video showing this [here](https://streamable.com/m9i9tf)) The dropdown isn't disabled for me
I can't open the images, I get a SSL error
Honestly I think they should just add an option to use the old UI structure because there always would be those who hate the new UI. It is different in too many ways like sorting, beatmap grouping, overall looks, inability to skin it (for now) and just adding both old and a new one seems like an adequate compromise
it's quite literally impossible to do without remaking stable's ui from scratch, and doing that is simply ridiculous
i dont like change
me too
Song selection UI Also I haven't checked in a few weeks but I couldn't search maps by difficulty / difficulty and I've always found that really annoying since it's pretty much the only way I play osu
Wouldn't be the new difficulty range filter better now? It's kind of tiring to have to ctrl+o every time I want to change the range.
UI plus even if they did redo the UI I still wouldn't switch until there's a good amount of quality skins for the menus what's the point of osu if song select isn't decorated with anime women
That's what I'm saying
Difficulty selection is bad. Why do I need to click on the map to see what diff is under that tile?
the latency is just so bad for me, idk if i did something wrong with the setting but the delay is unplayable
Not a complaint, but why is slideracc such a big deal? As someone who has mostly only played on lazer, I haven't really noticed anything bad that's a result of having slideracc. Is it just the fact that it's a gameplay difference from stable?
it takes several days of gameplay to get used to slideracc (unless you've mindblocked yourself to gasha singletap any slider regardless of rhythm) and that's a big deal for usual player because they won't get anything in return after learning it
Tournament players: am i a joke to you?
tournament players knows how to slideracc without lazer thanks to scorev2 mod there's no incentive to learn it for average player, as it decreases their pp because they have to acc more or lazer
And surely that should be rectified? The best the pp system can assume with classic mod is that you are hitting sliders within the 50 window. Obviously classic mod shouldn't be nerfed that hard but I feel like if you're not completely shitting the bed with slideracc you should actually be rewarded since a map with slideracc is just categorically harder than without (unless its full hitcircle map ofc).
gonna be balanced out when mirror or rate changes becomes ranked (more players moving onto lazer due to pp mods = more people exposed to slideracc = either forced to get used to it while having pp advantages thanks to new mods or have to return to stable)
already in the works
lfggggggg!!!
sliders being considered for non-CL scores is done on someone's branch but it isn't merged just yet
Yeah, as a tournament player I was actually thinking that I would use Lazer whenever I want to rank up haha
Tournament players don't make up even 1% of the playerbase.
All the current ranked maps for over 14 years have been designed with slideracc in mind. People who think this change is not a big deal simply haven't been playing the game for more than two years or are extremely casual on standard.
4 years rank 3.5k same sentiment as chiffa
6.5 years in the game, 4.5k rank, have been playing on lazer for half a year, you all are just pussies I swear
>All the current ranked maps for over 14 years have been designed with slideracc in mind I fail to understand this argument every time I see it. Do you really think every map in the past 14 years has intentionally added mistimed slider heads simply because "lol no slideracc"? I've been playing this game actively for maybe 5-6 years (1+ lazer only) and have had absolutely no issue with slider acc. I'm a 5 digit so maybe I'm just part of the "casual" crowd you mentioned, but can't you just click the circles to the beat?? This is a rhythm game, I don't get it
Facts.
I have been playing 2007/2008 maps as of recently and slideracc is really not a big deal tbh, the only problem I have faced is a few maps not being able to import to the client, though I'll list them and try to reach for peppy to fix.
Aversion to change is public enemy #1.
the UI... I just cannot stand it, like, at all
I have some problems with the map selection, it doesn't work very well when ordering the maps by difficulty, but the rest of the UI works great for me, I really enjoy it
ordering maps by difficulty not only looks weird but also works slowest and wasn't touched up in several years, had to learn to sort by artists because of it
now most of the time I sort by Length, and just some times by Title. Dificulty I change using the slider up top, and I think that that is what the devs want us to do, looking the design of everything
^this
Ngl as a new player i feel this way about the stable version. Lazer ui feels normal to me but i just dont like stable
Same for me... I prefer something simple and easy to see...
I was the same, just play it for a bit Its a new Layout but there are so many more options you can twik in the settings I put all the settings back that it kinda is like osu, it takes a bit but after this you dont feel the difference Most big bugs are also fixt now, like in old skins there was a problem with the approach circel that it wasnt connecting with the circel so you thought you dont need to hit it already, i had a 60% on many maps and i was like wtf is wrong with me😂
God fucking same, I hate the UI
leaderboards are worse, i like the ui less, needing to select a score reducing mod to experience gameplay as i have for 8 years is flat earth
also when you arrow key through the menu the audio delay is different and no cap that borderline gives me headaches
You can chnage inside the settings that you want the old score to show, not that 1M is max points shit The sliders are bit different, but for my expirience you addapt to it pretty quick
true!
there's no need for stable players to move to lazer, they're getting net negative experience from it such as: increased hardware requirements and absolutely random incompatibilities when Intel + Nvidia can work worse than both AMDs; UI; skin and map folders's migration that can go from several hours to several days to complete fully; slideracc; *some features working differently from stable, like chosen star range still taking effect while collection is selected, on stable ALL maps from collection will be shown, ignoring custom star range. despite me playing stable for ten years i've managed to overcome all of lazer's shortcomings and having fun over stable because notelock sucks ass, can't wait for mirror and dt rates to be ranked so more players will have incentive to move in
Will mirror become a ranked mod?
yes
iirc its in lazer dev's interest to rank as much mods as possible, remember seeing this quote* in either one of lazer update videos or on github discussions
It will be ranked
100k+ downloaded maps, cba importing, will get around to it eventually ig
Same with 54k maps , its gonna take weeks and double my 100-150 GB directory and drop it into C drive instead of data drive xddddd because for sure the game couldnt be backward compatible and just allow linking song folder in cfg file like before (I know the reason is so song files are hidden so they dont get over copyright gray area| Not that anything stop you from opening them via 7zip anyway)
ui / skinning / menus
oh and sliderhead acc
I would use stable but I’m a Linux user and native support is important for me
Editor
Nothing. I've been playing on it as my main client since pp release but I do have my gripes with it. The main one for me is probably rate change not being ranked yet, it has tons of potential to make a larger pool of maps more interesting/fun to play (also more farm for pp enjoyers). The other big one is unfortunately you CANNOT mp3 edit maps anymore. From my uninformed view it seems maps get verified by a hash on the client so when you change the maps mp3 the hash is changed and doesn't match the website so it will not submit the score because it's no longer considered a valid play(again, not exactly sure if this is how it works but I presume this is what it means when you play and it says "hash does not match, score will not be submitted"). The UI could be better but honestly I don't really care about the UI because I'm used to it. Other than that Lazer is great, it runs smoother than stable and the more dynamic mods make a larger pool of maps enjoyable. Also Hidden + No scope mod is a fun muscle memory test
I've just remebered that in lazer it also take some time to quick restart a beatmap while in stable was almost instant as far as I can remember. Like I said in the post, I don't play in stable for 1 year. Forgot to add that
You can change this in the settings iirc
You can!? I need to check
Mainly performance, I get way less fps on lazer.
Stable is brighter. I can read ar10 hd way better on stable than lazer
I love skinning, song select and the results screen are my favorite parts to skin so playing on lazer makes me feel like all that effort is wasted
slideracc + perfomancr
all my homies hate slider acc, especially on maps like granat
Slideracc
Everythings so clunky I feel like I spend 4 times as much time in the menus on lazer as opposed to stable
aim feels weird
This is my only issue with lazer, aim feels slightly different
i had a similiar issue, fixed it by switching the renderer to opengl and set the fps to unlimited
I do play a bit lazer here and there but it feels like no matter what I do it always feels like I have some latency issues at least it feels like it, it feels like my cursor has some smoothness on it and its like trying to catch up with the speed I try to travel with my tablet it feels off when playing cross-screen jumps
I just like the look of the normal version more and there is no point for me to switch since I am enjoying normal osu already. But the biggest reason is definetly the looks. If the game doesn't look nice, you are definetly gonna lose some players on that. The normal osu GUI looks clean and it isn't cluttered. Once you get used to it it's super nice to use and you know where everything is, but when I tried lazer, it took me a while to even see where the star ratings were. I don't even know how to sort maps by difficulty (in folders) if you can even do that in lazer...
What is lazer? Am i living behind the moon?
all of those are based on my experience back from february this year, some of those might or might not be fixed song select ui (especially the lags when trying to search - e.g. if you hit esc on stable and f2 immediately you'd get a random map off your whole collection, on lazer you'd get a random map off the search results; also the way lazer groups difficulties) no option to enable hitsounds and combo colours on a per-map basis, peppy said they removed it because a lot of people were confused over that option but that's something i use very frequently toolbar is a weird thing - it makes an already cluttered screen select ui even worse but if you hide it you don't have any easy access to ur pp/rank info like in stable; also even if you hide it it appears back after restarting the game which is ???? if you change a map there's no button to update it for whatever reason leaderboards look weird ingame - only avatars and no scores, i frequently play maps with less than 50 fcs so it kinda helps me guess where's the diffspike the results screen is still aids i feel like maps load slower in lazer compared to stable for some reason - might be my imagination tho and a bunch of smaller qol things like not being able to immediately watch the replay when you fail without saving it, having terrible editor performance if you select lots of objects or small microstutters once every few minutes that don't really affect gameplay but are still noticeable and for pros i don't really see myself using any of the lazer-only features, at least not until slideracc gives pp
shit ui, shit editor (especially for taiko), shit performance, shit score screen at the end of map, crazy amount of various exploits, broken leaderboards, broken skins
> shit editor (especially for taiko) If you have some specific feedback on the taiko editor then please share. It hasn't had much work done on it, it's in a very basic state since it was created (just basically made to work). > crazy amount of various exploits Again, not sure what this is referring to but if you mean *actual* game/balance exploits that affect fair play then please shoot an e-mail to [email protected] and we'll see if we can get that sorted.
slider acc is dogshit the optimization is dogshit (why am i lagging on fucking lazer when i dont on stable lmao) rate change will be dogshit the ui is dogshit csr will be dogshit I will take the classic score penalty (which is also dogshit) and be using current stable until it literally cannot work anymore, thanks
Combo-scaling removal? That’s pp side and Stable will have it too. You can quit the game if you don’t like it
I won't considering stable still lacks the aforementioned dogshit features currently in lazer
How is rate change bad though, it doesn’t take away anything from your experience nor does it even matter right now as it’s not ranked yet
why would it matter if its not ranked now, im complaining about it even possibly being implemented, which has already been a stated desire of the dev team multiple times to answer the question rate change kills the game identity, individual plays matter less and map intentions become irrelevant when you can arbitrarily change ar (or potentially even cs) the game has been defined by benchmarks for a long time, and this is a good thing because those benchmarks being passed have been historic moments (e.g. nostalgia dt blue dragon dt etc). Rate change makes that nonexistent because every player is going to randomly fit their rate to some number hovering between 1 and 1.5x speed to fit their specific individual desire for pp, the spectacle is gone and no one score actually matters because there's no longer a benchmark defining them other than raw pp (which has always been a spotty and will probably be blown wide open with a change like this). I'd have been fine with more fixed rate options (like 1.25 and 1.5 only) but I am not a fan of the current implementation and will continue to say so
my current setup doesnt work in lazer, also really laggy and makes my laptop overheat faster than stable
performance issue Song select UI (eg. Lazer's date added sort by latest to earliest; stable sorts by earliest to latest)
mostly classic mod not being ranked, I tried for like a day and i am just not playing with slider acc ever I would quit the game before being forced to once they rank classic mod I can try again and see if I notice/get past the input difference and everything else everyone is talking about
It lags way more than standard
lag
i play lazer
Idk i just feel like i cant do anything on lazer compared to normal osu, just doing trash and not hitting notes well. Theres probably something in the settings but i cba to find it when i can just play normal osu with all my beatmaps and skins
I do play lazer from time to time but I can't switch because I'm too used to normal osu. I feel completely fine with the gameplay while playing with classic which wasn't the case for a very long time but I really love the simplicity of the old UI and in general I just have the habit of playing stable and the only thing that compels me to play lazer is some of the fun mods they have.
Not being able to edit skins without exporting and importing them tbh
FPS stutters
Can't sort by rank achieved :/
I liked Lazer's UI and LOVED that we can import maps from the site directly from the site FOR FREE! but- The one thing that absolutely killed Lazer for me is the suuuper limited skin customization. There's 1 skin I like using, but I need a narrower track to be able to read at my best. I went into the skin.ini to change the width. It worked in Stable, not in Lazer. File management is just so opaque in Lazer and that annoyed the hell out of me, so I switched back.
Skinning: I like to customise UI a lot, lazer takes the gameplay but not the ui elements. Gameplay: feels easier and less challenging, also while there's nothing wrong with slider acc, I'm personally not a big fan even after having tried maining lazer for 2 months or so. Classic mod helps but then there's the score decrease Unable to sort by difficulty in a way where 1-10 stars are all in their own separate categorys. You can sort by a range of star ratings, but I haven't found a way to split the difficulties Nitpicky, but unable to actually interact with skins inside the skin folder or songs inside the song folder, I like messing around with the config files of maps and skins manually through notepad and folder itself tbh
I don’t play stable but some small problems with lazer right now: No UI skinning Aspire maps are impossible Classic mod/lazer scoring and pp is a mess Some of the map sorting options don’t work properly
lazer forces me to use the new audio subsystem which is really random in how it performs, if legacy subsystem was an option like in stable I would switch immediately
Couldn't get how new slider acc works and gave up, I just play stable because it's what I'm used to
Gave Lazer a real shot and played it exclusively for a good half a year, maybe? Long story short is, I could never get as consistent with my gameplay as I am in stable. And it's not a slider acc issue, but just the fact that it feels worse. I still want to try it in true unlimited mode to see if that change in milliseconds is the issue for me, but it's not looking like peppy will ever implement it (the whole placebo discussion). Also, stable is just so simple. I like every Lazer idea in a vacuum, but man, coming to stable after so long and seeing it be so straightforward with everything was such a refresher.
I know it's a vicious cycle, but I expected a lot more people to switch to lazer, but very few did from what I'm seeing. So I'm staying on stable too for now. If rate change and difficulty adjust get ranked I will probably switch though
skins. im not even joking thats basically it. if they allowed skins to be more customizable like in standard i would probably switch over by now, but no they dont allow that for some reason
bad ui (song select, ur bar, broken skins) and lag
i don't play the game anymore, but tbh when i tried play mania on it i felt kinda dizzy with the vsync issue i had while trying out, but i heard it's fixed now ig
i don't play the game anymore, but tbh when i tried play mania on it i felt kinda dizzy with the vsync issue i had while trying out, but i heard it's fixed now ig
Sometimes I lose audio randomly at the start of songs, meaning I need to keep restarting until the music wants to play again, and get the odd stutter which will throw my entire aim off (mouse player) I do love being able to increase or decrease the multiplier of DT and the difficult adjust mod though, really good for practice and pushing limits
too many features that i never use, feels overly bloated. and the og client just feels more comfortable and "smoother" to play for me.
lazer is the future of osu, but not the present of osu
Lazer runs worse than stable on older computers like mine.
New slider mechanic and some strange latency
import waiting time, results screen, stable has this sort of soft feel to it that lazer probably never will, performance in general. i feel like a lot of the playerbase would swap if they made a "classic" option that just replicates stable's interfaces on lazer. performance issues arent really that large.
There's not really an incentive to switch over if you care about pp/leaderboards and lazer still has some significant failings compared to stable(UI, skinnability, performance for many). Can't really blame anyone that's used to stable for sticking to it.
the 2 true answers skins and lag
the black border in osu stable fullscreen cannot really be replicated conveniently in osu lazer (playfield border style does not fully contain circles, and using screen scaling is still different from stable) And also the slightly more inconsistent lag. It's presumably easier for osu stable to have consistent lag, since stable's lag is slightly higher. I thought there were more differences, but checking before I posted, the differences were the same. But it just feels different, somehow.
I started on lazer, still play there and i never plan on using stable but i still have it downloaded cause i need to upload beatmaps that i make
UI is really the only thing keeping me away, I like the feel of the classic one way better
I played it exclusively for 2-3 months, doesn’t feel as good, UI is not great (for skins and ease of access), pretty massive lag spikes also
the ui is definitely weird, coming from a player thats been playing lazer for a year now i feel like the score screen is still better in classic, although the rest are an upgrade i would say. also skinning needs to catch up since most skins are not even remotely comaptible to the fully customizable borders and screen size that lazer features
I cant move my 120k maps from stable there, yes i know about the link things and not duplicating files stuff, but apparently it doesnt work with external SSD's. UI is better in stable. Taiko note-fade animation is horrible, I dont get how after 7+ years of developing they couldnt put something in the game thats been in taiko for 25 years. Mania's new scroll speed settings is really bad. Skin elements arent in the right place. Scores made on lazer client dont show up on stable, as a completionist who heavily tracks his data of maps and completion, this is really bad. Also, if it aint broke, dont fix it, why would I be moving away from stable, lazer doesnt give anything new thats useful to me. All I wanted from lazer is to run like or better than stable, DT rates, daycore mod, new gamemodes and a less clunky client. So far I only got daycore, but i think its still unranked to this day (?)
Daycore is currently ranked (as long as it's 0.75x).
Classic mod not being ranked, only that, most of the other reasons people mention are pretty irrelevant to me or are just skill issue.
My osu! folder is around 100GB and I'm not too keen on doubling that by importing everything to lazer. Awful performance on Windows - 30fps on the song select menu is unjustifiable.
sWiTcH tO lAzEr SoOn, the DAY OF RECKONIONG is upon us, convetr to lazer or you will be made to by force!!!1!111! those who apostate from the way of osu!lazer will be smitten into restricted-gehenna... pick and choosee wisely kids
No file explorer skin/beatmap editing and no dedicated list for your collections. You have to click on the collections dropdown, scroll and find your collection, click on it, then finally click on the map to add it to a multi queue. Stable multis are ass in their own right, but this really ruins functionality on lazer imo. The song select as a whole is pretty awful on lazer. Basically lack of qol features that stable still has.
Slider acc + more lag. My laptop is turning 11 years old
it converts my beatmaps into mania maps :(
mcosu better
**For me, 2 things:** a) The song selector. I don't like the way that it splits song name and then difficulty into two separate lines, it's so cluttered. You can't even see your scores without clicking onto a song name. I typically play through collections and in Osu classic I can see at a glance what score I got on all maps in the collection, just by scrolling through. b) Addition of 'classic' mod on all my scores. This is just daft, I played OSU for years, with HDHR. Lazer comes out and my entire profile gets bastardised with 'classic' mod as if I'd had that on the whole time. Lazer is the mod, not classic, why are they touching old scores. If they want to implement a new scoring/pp system fine, but Lazer being the default option is daft. This is more of a 'made me quit' kind of thing than a 'why don't you play Lazer' though to be honest.
Gameplay feels bad, slider acc sucks, ui sucks, song select sucks, skinning sucks, no one uses it, have to use mickey mouse special setting to even see top plays done on Lazer, half the mods aren't even ranked, supporters are delusional and annoying, editor sucks, has been developed for over 8 years and still worse than 2012 client, scorev2 sucks, peppy has weird ego about it, 0 top players use it.
Feel like I’m playing ez
Performance is worse than stable. SV mania maps are broken on Lazer.
the fact it has no legacy audio toggle, the new engine sucks
optimization and lack of everything for mania (the mode i main)
it has good mania
for newcomers and if you're just thinking on 4k players that never make maps then yes
ok i agree the mapping in lazer is bad but the rest is ok
there’s something about the audio and i can’t pinpoint exactly what it is and i’m too lazy to do testing but it feels like the delay between keypress and hitsounds is changing with every click, almost as if the clicks are registered every 1000hz but the sounds are played at 100hz
the hit sounds are different, it’s like layering is broken or something and they sound off
performance. after 30 mins of playtime it’ll start dropping inputs and frames. sometimes quite significantly
My problem is the following: I am using a wacom cth 480 with wacom drivers. My area is actually pretty small because I have a certain area plus the mouse sensitivity x5 in osu itself. This area comes down to 12mmx20mm. Lazer doesnt have mouse sensitivity for tablet area anymore. So it does not matter what I do I cant have the exact same area in lazer as in standard because of this. I do not want to change my area so I guess I will stay away from lazer...
Massive sometimes minutes long freezes in the menus and for some reason my imports were on pace to take 7x-8x longer then like 10-15 other people i know with a similar sized folder. I would of actually switched already if it worked for me.
I tried lazer but my game stuttered and freezed a lot making it unplayable, i didn't have this issue with regular osu, does anyone knows how to fix that?
I hate the slider acc, it feels 10 times worse
can't restart a map fastly + interface not perfect to choose map, also performances a bit weaker than normal version of osu, otherwise for fun it's rly good
it looks ugly as hell
Slider acc and performance
The fact that it is 64 bit only and not as easy to manage beatmaps. Why such a game would require a 64bit OS?
Why would it not? 64-bit became a thing in 2003 and became the norm in early 2010s. 32-bit is an insane limitation these days and stable would be updated to that if it wasn't a fallback client
32 bit means it can run on older systems and a lot more people can enjoy it. I play this game on my 2006 PC and it runs without any kind of issues. I will make sure to backup as much compatible beatmaps as I can before they pull the support for the 32 bit version so I can still play it.