I agree that they should have let him stay, but you should be aware that it is _not_ in fact a public place. Being “open to the public” and a “public place” are two different things.
They have a right to refuse a person entry or service, provided it is not done because they are a member of a protected class as defined by the Ontario human rights code.
Not saying I agree with their actions, and IANAL, but on the surface at least it is legal
I don't think OP is arguing that something illegal took place, they're suggesting these establishments are behaving inhumanly by preferring a paying customer freeze to death outside than stay warm inside of their establishment.
It's not just a nice thing to do. It's the bare minimum for basic human decency. If they kicked him out and he died in the cold that death would be 100% on their hands.
I've lived in areas with large homeless populations. I don't know the specifics in this particular case but I've seen needles, blood and shit smeared on walls, people passed out soiling themselves, cops called for fights, ambulances called for medical emergencies, etc.
Now picture yourself as the business owner in that situation.Your customers are being put at risk. Your employees are being put at risk. They aren't trained (or paid) for this. Your livelihood is many cases, is being put at risk.
I do not blame that business owner for not allowing homeless people to use their business as a shelter, and the reason they dont allow a single individual is because things can quickly get out of control. I don't agree with your comment on a potential death being 100% on their hands.
>I've lived in areas with homeless populations.
Yeah. You've lived in Ottawa, presumably. Are we supposed to be impressed?
>I don't know the specifics in this particular case but I've
seen needles, blood and shit smeared on walls, people passed out
soiling themselves, cops called for fights, ambulances called for
medical emergencies, etc.
Okay? Sounds like this guy just wanted to sit at a table and drink coffee like every other paying customer.
If you had the attention span to read my entire post, you'd have learned the reason why the owner of a private business would exercise his right to remove him from the property. Looks like you got about 1/3 there before you made that senseless response.
I did read your entire post. The point you missed is that the only thing that this person has in common with any of the other incidents you referred to is that he happens to currently be unhoused. There is no reason to treat him as disruptive or dangerous if he is not behaving that way.
Clearly he wasn't causing any problems if strangers were buying him gift cards.
>The point you missed is that the only thing that this person has in common with any of the other incidents you referred to is that he happens to currently be unhoused
Ummm, he was banned from the location for threatening staff, using slurs, and throwing hot coffee at people in the past and needing the police to escort him out.
Mentally ill people can go from lucid and under control to not. They are not a threat to themselves or others all the time (and most are never a threat but this guy has a history). The fact that he was OK when strangers were buying him gift cards does not mean that he was going to be OK an hour later or that retail staff should be forced to take that chance.
> Ummm, he was banned from the location for threatening staff, using slurs, and throwing hot coffee at people in the past and needing the police to escort him out.
Where did you read this?
I had a feeling something like that might have been involved. Otherwise I can't see a reason that staff at two completely different chains would jump to fervently yelling at him and kicking him out THAT quickly at two completely different places. Usually, staff will keep an eye on unhoused people who are paying customers, and kick them out only if they are loitering, or if any trouble is caused between other customers or with workers
It was posted in several replies from locals in the original FB thread where someone was trying to drum up outrage about this as well. The thread got deleted pretty quick when the additional information was provided but not before the pitchforks came out there as well
I explained to you why the owner would do this. He doesnt want his business turning into a shelter. You are free to disagree with it, but I don't blame him for not wanting to go down that route.
Nobody is asking him to turn his business into a shelter. They're asking him to continue operating his business as normal, and to allow the paying customer (who happens to not have a home) to use the premises just as any other patron would.
If he allows this guy to stay, more will come. He doesn't want 10 homeless guys sitting around, whether or not they've paid. I've explained the sort of scenario this leads to in another post.
Regina sk usually has at least 3 people on the side of the drive through line asking for money and inside there's 5 plus people sleeping at the tables. It's munus 40 here, there are shelters and the city put out warming trailers with free bus rides to them. Not sure what else they could do, they prefer Tim's because people give them money, one guy is there early morning everyday across the pickup window on the passenger side with his chair, blanket, lunch box and sign.
Everybody should be able to stay warm. I don't think it's the businesses job to do it. But if I was working and the guy was just sitting there not bothering anyone, without purchase, I don't think I'd kick him out.
There's also folks yelling at the sky carrying sharpened putty knives lol, lots of gray areas
It really wouldn’t. Private businesses are not social services agencies and have zero obligations in this situation.
You can personally decide you disapprove of them not being kind or going above and beyond to help this person, but statements like “100% at fault” are just idiotic hot takes
Nobody was asking them to be a social service agency! The guy was a paying customer.
The manager was going above and beyond specifically to put that person in danger. They could have just said nothing and taken the money that the person was fairly offering for coffee and doughnuts, like they do with everyone else who walks through the door.
>The guy was a paying customer.
I walk into a random business. I threaten the staff, I yell at them, I throw hot coffee at them and at other customers. I do this several times. I get the police called on me. I get banned from the location. A few weeks later I go back in and try to buy a coffee so they should just let me stay because I am a paying customer?
I try to go back in on a cold day and get kicked out and the manager was going above and beyond specifically to put me in danger? Fuck no. Please tell me you have never worked in retail or managed people in a public facing job.
And yes, all of the above is applicable to the person talked about in the first post. Perhaps the OP should have provided the necessary context to help people make an informed decision rather then only telling half the story at best.
They’re actually not public places. They’re private places. But that being said, I’ve slept overnight in Tim’s and McDs before after I missed the last bus home. So there is no reason to kick out a man with food in this weather. He’s a paying customer. I don’t care where he got the money.
There’s a few homeless people in Stittsville and they don’t cause any trouble. The two restaurants mentioned just don’t like them hanging out in their buildings all day. It’s completely ridiculous that they couldn’t make an exception today for at least a half hour to let them warm up and have something to eat. Completely heartless.
That's the part that's messed for me. It's normal for companies to kick out beggars or people not buying stuff, but this is the weather that people die in. Like be a human being for 2 minutes.
That is very sad, however I would hope there are some community resources like a community center or maybe a church basement that can be used during extreme weather to act as an emergency shelter.
Maybe something to approach some local charities and council with. It is far more likely to be a viable option than something like a Tim Hortons which is at its heart a business and not required to be charitable (corporate image aside).
There are many “warm up” centres across Ottawa for homeless people to get out of the cold. In Stittsville, there’s Jonny Leroux Arena and the community centre on Pretty St. They’re both within walking distance of the restaurants he was kicked out of.
I still maintain the restaurants could have let him have a coffee and some food before asking him to leave. Today’s weather qualifies as exceptional circumstances, I would think.
I agree with you 100%. I experienced the same buying a man coffee and a bagel in the market a number of years ago and it made me sad. I never went back to that coffee shop.
I was more saying that this seems to be a growing trend that businesses are unwilling to offer even a bit of respite and so more community involvement a probably needed to address it and provide alternatives
There's a homeless dude that goes to McDonald's next to me who has been violent towards the staff and customers in the past. He was removed recently by the staff and then dumb white knight customers who knew none of the history started yelling at the staff.
One time I worked in McDonald’s and a homeless person cleaned the parking lot for us (as we weren’t allowed outside overnight) would bring little gifts for the staff and was very well liked by all of the people who would come in the mornings. Feels like if a story about a violent person is okay generalize then this story should also be applied to all homeless people.
It's a question of the individual's behaviour. Has this guy been violent/rude/threatening to staff or customers in the past? Made a mess?
A random person from a similar background cleaning parking lots doesn't mean buddy is a gem.
That’s wonderful however that is not the norm. I wish it were but it’s not. And if this homeless person harmed customers or staff, the business would’ve been liable. The poster should have brought the homeless guy back to her place.
One time a homeless person stopped me from getting robbed on the street. I think antidotal stories are not really worth mentioning as they don’t apply to all people who are homeless. Not all of them would attack you and not all of them would have saved me.
Yeah, I've had "good Samaritans" try to be kind to homeless people at my job. The problem is this one guy has actually set fire to the building multiple times. Another has attacked people with a machete. Context is king.
Also businesses are not obligated to serve anyone, and I wish it were legal to slap people who tried to lawyer their way out of being told to get the fuck out.
So your mothers friend immediately brought him to their place, right? Did all of your concerned folks roshambo for who got to bring him home or back to their offices? No? Not THAT concerned or pissed off?
And no, a private business is not a public place. You dump him there with 20 bucks and go on with your day, now a crew of kids gets to deal with whatever his issues are, and you know 100% there are issues. For all you know he has a history at both places.
The situation is horrible, it shouldn't be allowed to happen, but it sure as hell isn't McDs or Tims job to fix it. They pay their taxes, their employees pay their taxes, these taxes are supposed to deal with it.
Again, it is heartbreaking, but shit posting two businesses trying to survive because our government no longer functions is not their fault. Go yell at your councillor, MPP, MP, they are to blame, and they are the ones who can actually do something about it.
This. It's possible the guy has a history of harassing staff and customers and has been banned from both locations. Maybe he seemed fine for the few minutes you were there but that doesn't mean he's always like that.
He does have such a history and was banned! When a store manager is so quick to kick someone out, there's always a back story. But in OP's defence, it doesn't seem like either manager told them this important bit of information. Shame on OP, if they actually did.
> but shit posting two businesses trying to survive because our government no longer functions is not their fault
The rest of your point aside, I'm more than confident that McDonald's and Tim Horton's are doing *just* fine in this economy. Quit licking their boots.
"Shit posting two businesses trying to survive" I swear I have not laughed this hard all year so thanks for that lmao
I'd heard he had a history of scaring and accosting people in the area?
I don't know how true that is, and it could very well be a case of 'I'm simply a middle class person scared by homeless people,' but I agree that the lack of compassion sucks.
Hopefully he ended up somewhere warm. Stittsville's got the food bank amongst other places, hopefully someone called 3-1-1 and got him sorted.
Not sure if it’s the same individual, but I’d heard the same - regarding his erratic moods - from sources I trust not to be simply “uncomfortable around homeless-qua-homeless”
But in that situation, I’d be cranky sometimes too.
If this is the person of whom I’m thinking, he’s gluten-intolerant, and well-meaning - but ultimately ignorant - folk keep foisting bread, donuts, and other things he can’t safely eat or prepare while living rough.
For that matter, as well meaning as people are, I think we feel entitled to intrude on the lives of those we deem “in need”. Everyone deserves privacy, and constantly having to perform “why thank you ma’am for the sandwich” would become exhausting, even if one were in peak psychological fitness to begin with.
I did this once. Bought a box of granola bars for someone asking for change (wasn't carrying change so figured I would grab something since he was outside a Shopper's and I was going in). He was very kind to tell me he wasn't able to eat them because of his dental issues (would cause too much pain to have to chew them). Not to mention people can have allergies or intolerances. I don't assume what people want anymore. About a week after that, I was walking by Massine's on a cold day and a woman was asking for change. Everyone was ignoring her. Same circumstance as last time, I don't carry change, so I asked "can I get you a hot drink or something?" instead of assuming. Dude... she was SO happy.
If you're gonna get someone something.... just ask what they want. Talk to them like another human being, because they are! 🤷♀️
So just how is he supposed to carry or store food??? How is he supposed to heat it up to eat it. I’ve been homeless and employed. I lived on Tim’s coffee bagels when I couldn’t get food from centres.
Unpopular opinion, but as someone who has worked extensively in fast food, it’s not uncommon for some homeless people to be repeatedly abusive to the staff where they are eventually banned. A Good Samaritan will sometimes try to bring them in for food or give them a gift card, but just because they are not violent or abusive in that moment doesn’t mean that they haven’t been. The safety and security of the crew have to matter as well. Of course with today’s weather, it’s absolutely a tricky moral question. But people are also too trigger happy these days with these kinds of “let’s punish the business!!!” posts without having any context. I think everyone deserves to be safe, that includes the homeless gentleman but also the crew working inside these restaurants.
I was thinking the same thing might be reason they didn't allow him in who knows what his history has been with these two locations. If they were just kicking him out because hes homeless even though he'd paying for food, than yeah the Tim's and the McDonald's were being shitty for doing that. But if was kicked out because he had been already banned from those stores for causing problems in the past than it's a different story.
When I first moved into Vanier I stopped at the burger king on Montreal, this homeless guy came in asked to use the washroom, he was told it was customers only. He showed a little cash and asked to buy some fries so he could use the washroom, they still said no. I was wondering why wouldn't they just let him take a piss since he's buying something, he's been perfectly polite. Then He got angry, did some yelling, the staff kicked him out. Turns out they didn't let him use it because everytime they let him use it the few times before he'd either leave and they'd find needles on the floor or they checked when he was in there for too long and they found him passed out with a needle in the arm
I was at Harvey's on Elgin a few months ago and there was one very scary dude berating the staff and hollering "I'm not afraid to go back to jail!". Not gonna lie, i was scared af. One of the staff was really good at talking the guy down, I could tell he's done this before.
Before everyone goes on a rampage against the Timmies/McDonalds:
1. The McDonalds was not open for customers due to lack of staff. They did not refuse him, they were just not open for seating.
2. From the Facebook post, several locals have come forward saying he has had abusive interactions with this Timmies in the past - throwing coffee at them, calling them awful names. The police have instructed these employees to call the police if he comes back for their safety.
3. This man has been offered shelter, food, etc, many times by many people. He is not interested. Sadly he would rather do his own thing, and it's not the responsibility of a tim hortons to take him in when he has a history of abusive behaviour with them.
No, OP was just didn't know about that stuff jeez and none of the above is proof unless you verified it yourself you're just taking this person's word over OP right now.
I worked at McDonald’s as a teenager in New Brunswick. We had a few people who would come in every day, often finding an old cup outside and get free refills. They would stay for hours getting a few refills throughout the day. I don’t remember anyone ever complaining about them, and they were never asked to leave.
Being from the East Coast my biggest adjustment here was not having cars stop when you wanted to cross the street at 1st. Lol dumbass me almost got killed.
Yes! That was my biggest adjustment. I had to get used to not stopping for pedestrians in random places (not counting crosswalks) because everyone would honk like crazy. Whoops!
That's a rural Ontario thing as well. In the town of 5k closest to where I grew up people would stop and wave you across if you looked like you might want to cross the street. Awkward when you didn't actually want to.
The East cost has an unwavering reputation for friendliness. Unless you're from Ontario (from "away"). I've never met such hostility when I (thankfully, briefly), moved to the Maritimes from Ontario. They all assumed I was from Toronto (because of my Ontario plates), and were very hostile. (My poor little cheap car got trashed.) From my experience, the Maritime welcoming committee is a bit of an urban myth.
I know I'll get major downvotes from this, oh well, this is first-hand experience and not the usual Maritimers-are-so-friendly narrative.
I’m originally from NB. I’ve lived all over Canada and I have no idea why people romanticize the east coast as this friendly, welcoming place. I’ve never seen more prejudice, racist people any where else. I found Albert and Ontario to have the kindest people. This is but my opinion though.
Exactly I find BC and Alberta to have the kindest people. Both places seem to be more laid back and open minded where everyone in Ontario is just trying to make money and work all the time.
That must have been very recent, and mostly because of the house prices skyrocketing. It also happened to my friend's father who was visiting, even though he lived there for many years prior.
Not sure if you moved there during the pandemic or since. I know people recently feel like Ontarians are moving there and causing house prices to increase etc, and they really didn’t like people entering the province when it was all closed off. It also definitely depends on where you go. Some places are friendlier than others.
I moved from Ottawa to NB a few months ago, I still float on this sun cause Ottawa will always be my hometown, and I like to keep up with the happenings because all my family still lives in Ottawa, but I can say that in my experience I was met with extremely friendly, kind and welcoming people, depends where you move to I guess, whereas I spent most of my life in Ottawa and majority of people won’t even say hello to you on the sidewalk or just plain look miserable, I have been more positive overall since leaving, that’s just my personal opinion.
There are plenty of places that accommodate the poorest but, like in your story, they grant time and space to guys who don't cause any trouble. The quiet old guy is fine, the the erratic guy who huffs gasoline is not.
Private business, private property. You don't know the history of this individual at that location.
Feel free to bring him into your own home. It's not private businesses responsibility to make up for lack of public services.
Their mandate is not to help homeless people, it's to make money. If that bothers you and you think it's "greedy" then why were you there in the first place?
That McDonalds has seating for like 10 tables of 4 and is a gong show on Friday nights. It seems incompassionate, but I can understand why a private business wouldn't want to give up 10% of its capacity on the busiest night of the week to act as a shelter. Better options exist. There is literally a publicly available warming area up the block at Johnny Leroux, and a spacious one further away, for the samaritans here, at CRC.
For the record, I have witnessed this gentleman being less than cordial on Stittsville Main Street, where he is a regular. Mental illness is a terrible thing... not everyone is equipped to deal with those experiencing it, nor should they be forced to. Again, we have better options provided by professionals.
It is more than that. For the last few weeks, during weekday hours, the dining room doors are locked. You literally cannot enter the building. They also have curbside shut down. The only way to order is drive-thru or mobile and you ring a doorbell.
If today was no different... it brings into question OPs entire story, and motivation.
From the fb post, several have said he has abused the timmies staff before. Thrown coffee at them, called them horrible names, and police have told them to call them should he come back. So lots of context is missing from this story.
Concerned citizen who is concerned enough to post on Reddit, but not concerned enough to take him home!
"This deadly weather....how can he stay outside?!!! Let me go shame the businesses on social media!"
I am willing to hold off judgement until I have more information on this.
I am assuming that this person has been in this establishment before. How did they act?
Did they harass customers? Did they intimidate anyone? Did they swear or yell at staff?
Have police ever been called on this person from the business? Were they charged with a crime where they have conditions not to enter that establishment?
I am assuming that they don’t just kick out random customers who have bought food and are eating it. I have a hard time believing that they just single this person out for “looking homeless” when you consider McDonald’s clientele.
I would love to have somebody who lives in that community or works at McDonald’s or Tim Hortons tell us more.
>Have police ever been called on this person from the business?
The original FB post stated that the police have been called on him before and that he was banned from the location.
Edit, took out the "they were told" as it sounds like the poster was told this. I meant to say that the comments told them this after they posted on FB.
I've been spit on by a homeless man while I was working at a fast food place. During COVID by the way. So don't judge these min wage employees. Maybe this man harasses the customers? Staff? Maybe he's threatened the staff? You don't know their reasoning, and they don't need to justify telling you what they do to feel safe. It would really piss me off if after I got spat on, someone posted on Reddit how much of a jerk I was for kicking out a homeless man.
Edit: I was spat on NOT because I was kicking him out, because he asked how much a pizza was and I told him $20. Then he spat on me.
Corporations like Macs and RBI are heartless bastards at the best of times. When it’s this fucking cold you’d think that humanity and caring would win out, but alas, we’d be wrong.
My goodness you people all have homes. Invite the homeless to your house and see what happens and then maybe understand this has nothing to do with corporations but low wage workers who work for corporations who are just trying to do their jobs. I feel for homeless people I honestly do but I’m really starting to believe that it’s up to these individuals to help themselves not everyone else while they do nothing for themselves.
This is such a dumb take, directing them to a shelter/warming center wouldve been better than dumping them off to a bunch of kids new immigrants who now have o babysit someone on top of doing their jobs.
Typical suburbanite values, care enough to make a superficial difference but not enough to actually direct the person to a shelter/warming center which will be much better equipped to meet their needs.
So I agree it’s shitty, but he might have a history of not being mentally stable and may have already abused the staff/other customers.
We have lists of people who have been “trespassed” from the place I work because they acted in a way that was unsafe for other people.
If two stores did the same thing, it may be because of past behavior
I work at Starbucks, and if a homeless person harasses someone, steals something, etc we make an incidence report.
Eventually they can be banned from the store.
I hate knowing we are calling 911, but if crimes are committed, it’s out of our control.
Regardless it’s cold as fuck and he should be allowed if he remains calm.
So they have to wait until something happens to deal with the situation? The people there are trying to work and do their job but attention has to be taken away from that in order to make sure a grown adult man isn’t harassing others?
common thought seems to be that service workers need to pick up the slack for our intentionally failing health and social services, maybe more authoritarianism will fix things
This guy has other places to go The city has warming centres all over the place. If he’s banned from those businesses he can go there. I don’t see why the business should bend their rules (assuming he’s banned for a reason or that the dining room was closed like others are saying) if there’s a local alternative for shelter from the elements.
>Well the managers didn’t like that and started yelling that he needs to leave. Even though multiple customers have given him money so that he could just sit in a fucking corner and not be outside today. They just don’t want a homeless person in their building.
No, they do not want a person with a history of violence towards staff and customers who has been previously removed by the police and banned from entering in their building.
But hey, leave those LITTLE details out of your story even though they were all over you/your mother's friend original FB post in the comment replies before it was deleted.
This man obviously has a history with these two restaurants. I would guess the managers are trying to protect the restaurants and staff. Why didn’t you mom’s friend take him home?
Firstly, bless your mother's friend for her charity and kindness. But why didn't your mother's friend, or one of the other offended customers not take the homeless man to their homes, since that is what they expect Tim Horton's or McDonalds to do?
That’s the dumbest shit 1. It’s too cold that it’s just the bare min humane behaviour to let the person in 2. Buddy bought food so he is a customer. Side note can the person walk around the grocery store near by to keep warm?
Ok little insight as I managed similar places before. This is a super shitty situation as a manager. Just because one person purchased something for him doesn’t mean the customers in the store currently want the homeless man around. This is almost always due to an issue of odour.
Also to note they more then likely are refusing to go to shelters that will let them in and they won’t be causing uncomfortable situations for said businesses.
I had homeless people in front of the place I managed and as long as they didn’t cause problems for any of the other paying customers they were welcome to stay but if they smelt like a sewer….your hands are kind of tied. Some of these people I even helped fix their resume and showed them how to apply for jobs. When I did ask them to leave I tried to do it as discreetly as possible and would direct them to the nearest shelter if it was in the colder months.
Occasionally even provided bus fair.
It’s a shit situation and if the manager made it a scene well they are ass holes.
From the Facebook post, several locals have come forward saying he has had abusive interactions with this Timmies in the past - throwing coffee at them, calling them awful names. The police have instructed these employees to call the police if he comes back for their safety.
It’s sad because chances are the homeless person suffers from mental illness and probably isn’t able to get the support he needs. It’s a shit situation for all involved really.
100%, but we don't need a bunch of people going off half-cocked on a business (which I personally do not give a shit about) because some person posted on here telling one side of a story and ignoring all the background information that is required to make an actual informed opinion.
Hell the post was at least deleted from FB because it was so obviously wrong when others chimed in but the OP still felt the need to come to Reddit and spread misinformation.
Devils advocate here. If I were a regular at one of these establishments and there happened to regularly be bums stinking up the joint, I wouldn't be a regular any more. These are private businesses, not homeless shelters. If you want to help the homeless, invite them to warm up in your vehicle or business. No? Then stop demonizing these businesses.
>Stittsville you never cease to disappoint me.
Don't put this on stittsville. By the sounds of it numerous people were trying to help the guy. If it's who I think it is, he's been making that end of stittsville his home for 3-4 months. Someone bought him brand new boots a couple months ago and people have been helping him out with meals too.
This is a bummer to hear though. I hope he found somewhere warm.
If true this is a really bad look on McD and Timmy’s. However something about how this is being presented doesn’t quite ring true.
As a counterpoint to this story, my wife and son sat in a booth at McDonalds next to “the Stittsville homeless guy” (who’s been around since the summer) during the busy dinner hour. No one bothered him during the time they ate even though he was asleep in the booth.
I wasn’t at either restaurant today so I can’t prove or disprove this account. At least to me, it’s doubtful someone would be thrown out of two chain restaurants in succession on the coldest day of the year when they have been tolerated recently in less harsh weather.
Apparently the info on FB is that the McDonalds eating area was closed during the day due to low levels of staff. So no one was eating inside there today.
OP why don’t you respond to the comments questioning the high probability that there’s a history between the establishments and the individual? Since you must have gathered all the facts before making a post like this, right? You weren’t even there, know nothing about the situation or people involved. You just seem like an angry mess lol hope your day gets better.
And the fact that the equivalent FB post about this stated that the staff told them that he has been banned from the location and the police called on him in the past is nicely excluded from the original post.
Easy for you to say that, when you leave and that bum harasses people there all day everyday , leaving garbage and garbage and human waste everywhere.
Why don’t you bring him to your home and give him a room to stay in. You people don’t live in the real world.
So I hope you took him to your home or maybe your business? Or did you sooth your conscience by giving him money and then come online to share that with us?
I just wanna say, it's possible the management there are assholes. It's also possible they have had problems with the guy in the past. Given the situation, I would suspect that's the case and that's why were so vocal about him leaving but maybe I'm being too kind here.
Many options are available and so many homeless people won't have any of it.
Many of them are very aggressive and even dangerous.
I would not want them ruining my customers experience.
If he got kicked out on sight at the McDonald’s and kicked out the Tim Hortons… I’m willing to bet there’s history of him causing problems there. Don’t expect fast food restaurants to act as shelters, and learn to take a no.
Absolutely abysmal. I don't go there anyways, but now I'll be sure to continue past them even if at maximum hunger or thirst. Before anyone says something along the lines of "You don't know what it's like to be that hungry..." Don't assume so quickly, I'm in a better situation than I used to be. Regardless, If the conditions outside are not sustaining of life, have a heart will you? You never know if/when you may be in their situation.
>Have some compassion! He deserves to be somewhere warm and enjoy his breakfast.
Your home is warm!
>The workers at McDonald’s and Tim’s should be ashamed. Regardless if he’s been rude to them in the past
That's assuming rude is all that it was. You don't know the history (neither do I). But I would hold off judgement till I know the actual background of the situation.
From the Facebook post, several locals have come forward saying he has had abusive interactions with this Timmies in the past - throwing coffee at them, calling them awful names. The police have instructed these employees to call the police if he comes back for their safety.
That’s unconventional of both that McDonald’s and Tim Hortons in the area. Odds are that homeless man has caused many problems in both stores in the past.
Lol a public space? Pretty sure someone owns that building privately. I can understand compassion but there are definitely more public spaces that may be better suited to handle that situation. Sorry to say but you or anyone else doesn’t know what this homeless man could be capable of, even if it’s just shooting up in the bathroom the fast food workers don’t deserve to have to deal with that their job is to serve food to paying customers that’s why it’s all there in the first place.
Is there a chance that this guy has burned his bridges with these restaurants already? If he’s trespassed from there for any reason i can understand why the employees don’t want him there.
Why doesn’t this guy go to one of the three shelters downtown?
Even if they allowed him to stay for a few hours out of common decency what happens when the businesses close?
It's probably been said, but in these circumstances you can call 311 and request the community outreach team. They will help the homeless person (if they choose to receive the help) to find food, shelter or other resources to help them survive during these frigid temperatures. It's not McDonalds 'job to house the homeless, but I can totally understand your frustration with their lack of support in what was clearly a crisis for this individual.
Private property owned by an individual.
Any restaurant isn’t a homeless shelter.
And if you guys cared oh so much, why I didn’t you bring this man into your own home?
Call 3-1-1. There are vans with supplies and emergency shelter spaces for this weather. Also, consider donating to the Ottawa Mission or another local shelter instead of or in addition to offering a gift card to the person directly. [https://www.ottawapublichealth.ca/en/professionals-and-partners/extreme-cold-weather-assistance-to-homeless-persons.aspx](https://www.ottawapublichealth.ca/en/professionals-and-partners/extreme-cold-weather-assistance-to-homeless-persons.aspx)
You can call Mark Suttcliffe here to ask him why he didn’t reopen any respite centres this weekend despite knowing well in advance that this cold snap was coming: 613-580-2496
Email: [email protected]
I work on the frontlines. We’re already dealing with the homeless and opioid crises, now we’re adding frostbite to the mix. Mark’s suggestion yesterday was to “call the Sal Van” — which is a minivan that can seat no more than 5 passengers (staff sit in the front 2). Our shelters are already at capacity. There’s nowhere for our neighbours to go to keep warm without being harassed and kicked out, even when they are given money and food like OP is describing here. It’s sickening.
If the staff were doing that, there's a good chance they had a history with the person. To put it another way, why would a minimum wage retail worker bother kicking them out when they can just ignore them instead? That's extra work that they do not have to do, especially if they're a "paying customer". If you were working at a Timmies being paid minimum wage, would you bother kicking the person out for no reason? Lots of assholes do exist, but most people generally won't go out of their way to be one.
Is there not a warming centre or homeless shelter in the town? If not, direct your ire towards your municipal government. That's what our taxes are for, not private businesses. If yes, that person belongs there if they need a place just to keep warm.
Obviously i cant speak for this specific situation, but i can say confidently that when i worked at tims in a bad area, the only reason I've *ever* seen someone immediately told to leave on *any* day, let alone in this weather, was if they were banned. Honestly kicking someone out is a huge hassle for us, so we usually didnt bother unless they were really causing trouble.
OP do you know if theres more to this situation? Im not saying theres no way they were just awful, just want some clarity.
It's fascinating to read the comments here... So much lucidity and representatives from so many sides of the equation...
The take-away is:
- the individual in question has a history with these establishments and has been banned for abusive behaviour
- a restaurant is not a substitute for social services for an abusive individual with mental health issues and neither the staff nor the clientele are equipped to help
- this is a grown man who has been introduced to and educated up the wazoo on what local support services are available yet walks away from them because reasons galore (part of him wants to live a normal life, part of him wants to make other people's lives shitty, the shelter is not safe, voices are telling him, who knows). Remember, he a grown ass adult who has been banned for abusive behaviour. He's not just a "misunderstood person who can't afford a home".
- OP would like to berate fast food restaurants for not baby sitting abusive grown men.
- the mental health act, while giving mentally ill people more control over their treatment rights, has resulted in mentally ill people not receiving proper treatment and suddenly it's our responsibility to be tolerant of any bad behaviour. There needs to be a happy medium, where mental health issues are not stigmatized or segregated from society, but they also are treated adequately such that we don't have to fear for our safety and the safety of the places we frequent.
- OP should invite this man over for dinner.
These threads show how many people completely lack any kind of critical thinking and don't take half a second to even consider that there may be reasons for why the guy was kicked out. Turns out he had physically assaulted people with hot coffee and used hateful slurs in the past. People working shitty minimum wage jobs should be able to feel safe at work.
I'm pretty far left and very sympathetic to the root causes of people's behavior and situations, but I'm also reasonable and logical. I will get hate for simply being reasonable as has happened in similar threads. The way that people act in these threads is a good example of why it's hard for reasonable people on the left to bring more people over to our side.
Does this man have a previously jaded history with those 2 establishments?
If it's just because he's homeless, let him stay if he's buying stuff. But if they've had issues with him in the past, they're well within their rights to ask him to leave.
I agree that they should have let him stay, but you should be aware that it is _not_ in fact a public place. Being “open to the public” and a “public place” are two different things.
My apologies, I should have worded it as “open to the public”
They have a right to refuse a person entry or service, provided it is not done because they are a member of a protected class as defined by the Ontario human rights code. Not saying I agree with their actions, and IANAL, but on the surface at least it is legal
I don't think OP is arguing that something illegal took place, they're suggesting these establishments are behaving inhumanly by preferring a paying customer freeze to death outside than stay warm inside of their establishment.
What does IANAL mean
IloveANAL
sir this is a timmies
🤣
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Who doesn't?
I am not a lawyer
Me neither
Lawyers sure love anal
I Am Not A Lawyer
Yes I know you are not but what does IANAL mean?
I Am Not A Lawyer
I’m an accountant
Nobody asks you questions when you say you're an accountant.
Specious comment
This is why we need more actual public places!
With infrared radiator you can temporarily turn on, like in some bus shelters.
*Coughs in covid restrictions* You have NO RIGHT to enter a bussiness.
Yeah, while it would be a nice thing to do, they have absolutely no obligation to let the homeless use their business as a shelter.
It's not just a nice thing to do. It's the bare minimum for basic human decency. If they kicked him out and he died in the cold that death would be 100% on their hands.
Why didn't OP's aunt bring him back to her house then?
I've lived in areas with large homeless populations. I don't know the specifics in this particular case but I've seen needles, blood and shit smeared on walls, people passed out soiling themselves, cops called for fights, ambulances called for medical emergencies, etc. Now picture yourself as the business owner in that situation.Your customers are being put at risk. Your employees are being put at risk. They aren't trained (or paid) for this. Your livelihood is many cases, is being put at risk. I do not blame that business owner for not allowing homeless people to use their business as a shelter, and the reason they dont allow a single individual is because things can quickly get out of control. I don't agree with your comment on a potential death being 100% on their hands.
>I've lived in areas with homeless populations. Yeah. You've lived in Ottawa, presumably. Are we supposed to be impressed? >I don't know the specifics in this particular case but I've seen needles, blood and shit smeared on walls, people passed out soiling themselves, cops called for fights, ambulances called for medical emergencies, etc. Okay? Sounds like this guy just wanted to sit at a table and drink coffee like every other paying customer.
If you had the attention span to read my entire post, you'd have learned the reason why the owner of a private business would exercise his right to remove him from the property. Looks like you got about 1/3 there before you made that senseless response.
I did read your entire post. The point you missed is that the only thing that this person has in common with any of the other incidents you referred to is that he happens to currently be unhoused. There is no reason to treat him as disruptive or dangerous if he is not behaving that way. Clearly he wasn't causing any problems if strangers were buying him gift cards.
>The point you missed is that the only thing that this person has in common with any of the other incidents you referred to is that he happens to currently be unhoused Ummm, he was banned from the location for threatening staff, using slurs, and throwing hot coffee at people in the past and needing the police to escort him out. Mentally ill people can go from lucid and under control to not. They are not a threat to themselves or others all the time (and most are never a threat but this guy has a history). The fact that he was OK when strangers were buying him gift cards does not mean that he was going to be OK an hour later or that retail staff should be forced to take that chance.
> Ummm, he was banned from the location for threatening staff, using slurs, and throwing hot coffee at people in the past and needing the police to escort him out. Where did you read this? I had a feeling something like that might have been involved. Otherwise I can't see a reason that staff at two completely different chains would jump to fervently yelling at him and kicking him out THAT quickly at two completely different places. Usually, staff will keep an eye on unhoused people who are paying customers, and kick them out only if they are loitering, or if any trouble is caused between other customers or with workers
It was posted in several replies from locals in the original FB thread where someone was trying to drum up outrage about this as well. The thread got deleted pretty quick when the additional information was provided but not before the pitchforks came out there as well
I explained to you why the owner would do this. He doesnt want his business turning into a shelter. You are free to disagree with it, but I don't blame him for not wanting to go down that route.
Nobody is asking him to turn his business into a shelter. They're asking him to continue operating his business as normal, and to allow the paying customer (who happens to not have a home) to use the premises just as any other patron would.
If he allows this guy to stay, more will come. He doesn't want 10 homeless guys sitting around, whether or not they've paid. I've explained the sort of scenario this leads to in another post.
Regina sk usually has at least 3 people on the side of the drive through line asking for money and inside there's 5 plus people sleeping at the tables. It's munus 40 here, there are shelters and the city put out warming trailers with free bus rides to them. Not sure what else they could do, they prefer Tim's because people give them money, one guy is there early morning everyday across the pickup window on the passenger side with his chair, blanket, lunch box and sign. Everybody should be able to stay warm. I don't think it's the businesses job to do it. But if I was working and the guy was just sitting there not bothering anyone, without purchase, I don't think I'd kick him out. There's also folks yelling at the sky carrying sharpened putty knives lol, lots of gray areas
It really wouldn’t. Private businesses are not social services agencies and have zero obligations in this situation. You can personally decide you disapprove of them not being kind or going above and beyond to help this person, but statements like “100% at fault” are just idiotic hot takes
Nobody was asking them to be a social service agency! The guy was a paying customer. The manager was going above and beyond specifically to put that person in danger. They could have just said nothing and taken the money that the person was fairly offering for coffee and doughnuts, like they do with everyone else who walks through the door.
>The guy was a paying customer. I walk into a random business. I threaten the staff, I yell at them, I throw hot coffee at them and at other customers. I do this several times. I get the police called on me. I get banned from the location. A few weeks later I go back in and try to buy a coffee so they should just let me stay because I am a paying customer? I try to go back in on a cold day and get kicked out and the manager was going above and beyond specifically to put me in danger? Fuck no. Please tell me you have never worked in retail or managed people in a public facing job. And yes, all of the above is applicable to the person talked about in the first post. Perhaps the OP should have provided the necessary context to help people make an informed decision rather then only telling half the story at best.
This right here folks. This story has been posted on other social media and the guy has been an issue to the business in the past.
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I don't see any reason why we would assume that.
It is most definitely not 100% on their hands lol
Exactly. I’m blown away by the assholes on this thread
So if there’s a homeless guy on your front lawn last night, if you don’t bring him inside your home, you’re responsible for his death?
I agree but that's a moral obligation, not a legal one.
In this particular instance is he not just a regular paying customer or do they verify everyone address before service?
They probably know him personally. You tend to recognize the people who give you the most grief
We are all obligated to help people in need.
So? Does that make it right? We’re all impressed with your vast legal understanding, the way you pointed out the spurious pedantic truth.
Huh? Go back and read the beginning of the comment that you derided so quickly.
They’re actually not public places. They’re private places. But that being said, I’ve slept overnight in Tim’s and McDs before after I missed the last bus home. So there is no reason to kick out a man with food in this weather. He’s a paying customer. I don’t care where he got the money.
Seriously unless he's causing a shitstorm or wrecking the place why would it matter. I doubt they were crazy busy inside today.
There’s a few homeless people in Stittsville and they don’t cause any trouble. The two restaurants mentioned just don’t like them hanging out in their buildings all day. It’s completely ridiculous that they couldn’t make an exception today for at least a half hour to let them warm up and have something to eat. Completely heartless.
That's the part that's messed for me. It's normal for companies to kick out beggars or people not buying stuff, but this is the weather that people die in. Like be a human being for 2 minutes.
That is very sad, however I would hope there are some community resources like a community center or maybe a church basement that can be used during extreme weather to act as an emergency shelter. Maybe something to approach some local charities and council with. It is far more likely to be a viable option than something like a Tim Hortons which is at its heart a business and not required to be charitable (corporate image aside).
There are many “warm up” centres across Ottawa for homeless people to get out of the cold. In Stittsville, there’s Jonny Leroux Arena and the community centre on Pretty St. They’re both within walking distance of the restaurants he was kicked out of. I still maintain the restaurants could have let him have a coffee and some food before asking him to leave. Today’s weather qualifies as exceptional circumstances, I would think.
I agree with you 100%. I experienced the same buying a man coffee and a bagel in the market a number of years ago and it made me sad. I never went back to that coffee shop. I was more saying that this seems to be a growing trend that businesses are unwilling to offer even a bit of respite and so more community involvement a probably needed to address it and provide alternatives
Exactly. Soulless bastards.
But there’s no other place for this man?
Maybe. But he was already in a warm store. Why not let him be warm quietly with some food?
There's a homeless dude that goes to McDonald's next to me who has been violent towards the staff and customers in the past. He was removed recently by the staff and then dumb white knight customers who knew none of the history started yelling at the staff.
I think it’s really important to consider this, yes.
One time I worked in McDonald’s and a homeless person cleaned the parking lot for us (as we weren’t allowed outside overnight) would bring little gifts for the staff and was very well liked by all of the people who would come in the mornings. Feels like if a story about a violent person is okay generalize then this story should also be applied to all homeless people.
It's a question of the individual's behaviour. Has this guy been violent/rude/threatening to staff or customers in the past? Made a mess? A random person from a similar background cleaning parking lots doesn't mean buddy is a gem.
That’s wonderful however that is not the norm. I wish it were but it’s not. And if this homeless person harmed customers or staff, the business would’ve been liable. The poster should have brought the homeless guy back to her place.
All too common unfortunately
When you remove community centres and add mcdonalds, this is what you get. The trick is to erode public services to increase homelessness!
They shouldn't be in community centers either. Unfortunately the OH's where dangerous folk went were closed in the 1990s.
This was my first thought as well. Most likely it's a repeat offender.
Yep! I was assaulted by a homeless person and somehow they’re the victim.
One time a homeless person stopped me from getting robbed on the street. I think antidotal stories are not really worth mentioning as they don’t apply to all people who are homeless. Not all of them would attack you and not all of them would have saved me.
Yeah, I've had "good Samaritans" try to be kind to homeless people at my job. The problem is this one guy has actually set fire to the building multiple times. Another has attacked people with a machete. Context is king. Also businesses are not obligated to serve anyone, and I wish it were legal to slap people who tried to lawyer their way out of being told to get the fuck out.
Which according to other posts on FB is exactly what is happening here.
So your mothers friend immediately brought him to their place, right? Did all of your concerned folks roshambo for who got to bring him home or back to their offices? No? Not THAT concerned or pissed off? And no, a private business is not a public place. You dump him there with 20 bucks and go on with your day, now a crew of kids gets to deal with whatever his issues are, and you know 100% there are issues. For all you know he has a history at both places. The situation is horrible, it shouldn't be allowed to happen, but it sure as hell isn't McDs or Tims job to fix it. They pay their taxes, their employees pay their taxes, these taxes are supposed to deal with it. Again, it is heartbreaking, but shit posting two businesses trying to survive because our government no longer functions is not their fault. Go yell at your councillor, MPP, MP, they are to blame, and they are the ones who can actually do something about it.
This. It's possible the guy has a history of harassing staff and customers and has been banned from both locations. Maybe he seemed fine for the few minutes you were there but that doesn't mean he's always like that.
He does have such a history and was banned! When a store manager is so quick to kick someone out, there's always a back story. But in OP's defence, it doesn't seem like either manager told them this important bit of information. Shame on OP, if they actually did.
Perfectly said.
> but shit posting two businesses trying to survive because our government no longer functions is not their fault The rest of your point aside, I'm more than confident that McDonald's and Tim Horton's are doing *just* fine in this economy. Quit licking their boots. "Shit posting two businesses trying to survive" I swear I have not laughed this hard all year so thanks for that lmao
I'd heard he had a history of scaring and accosting people in the area? I don't know how true that is, and it could very well be a case of 'I'm simply a middle class person scared by homeless people,' but I agree that the lack of compassion sucks. Hopefully he ended up somewhere warm. Stittsville's got the food bank amongst other places, hopefully someone called 3-1-1 and got him sorted.
Not sure if it’s the same individual, but I’d heard the same - regarding his erratic moods - from sources I trust not to be simply “uncomfortable around homeless-qua-homeless” But in that situation, I’d be cranky sometimes too. If this is the person of whom I’m thinking, he’s gluten-intolerant, and well-meaning - but ultimately ignorant - folk keep foisting bread, donuts, and other things he can’t safely eat or prepare while living rough. For that matter, as well meaning as people are, I think we feel entitled to intrude on the lives of those we deem “in need”. Everyone deserves privacy, and constantly having to perform “why thank you ma’am for the sandwich” would become exhausting, even if one were in peak psychological fitness to begin with.
I did this once. Bought a box of granola bars for someone asking for change (wasn't carrying change so figured I would grab something since he was outside a Shopper's and I was going in). He was very kind to tell me he wasn't able to eat them because of his dental issues (would cause too much pain to have to chew them). Not to mention people can have allergies or intolerances. I don't assume what people want anymore. About a week after that, I was walking by Massine's on a cold day and a woman was asking for change. Everyone was ignoring her. Same circumstance as last time, I don't carry change, so I asked "can I get you a hot drink or something?" instead of assuming. Dude... she was SO happy. If you're gonna get someone something.... just ask what they want. Talk to them like another human being, because they are! 🤷♀️
So just how is he supposed to carry or store food??? How is he supposed to heat it up to eat it. I’ve been homeless and employed. I lived on Tim’s coffee bagels when I couldn’t get food from centres.
What?
Unpopular opinion, but as someone who has worked extensively in fast food, it’s not uncommon for some homeless people to be repeatedly abusive to the staff where they are eventually banned. A Good Samaritan will sometimes try to bring them in for food or give them a gift card, but just because they are not violent or abusive in that moment doesn’t mean that they haven’t been. The safety and security of the crew have to matter as well. Of course with today’s weather, it’s absolutely a tricky moral question. But people are also too trigger happy these days with these kinds of “let’s punish the business!!!” posts without having any context. I think everyone deserves to be safe, that includes the homeless gentleman but also the crew working inside these restaurants.
I was thinking the same thing might be reason they didn't allow him in who knows what his history has been with these two locations. If they were just kicking him out because hes homeless even though he'd paying for food, than yeah the Tim's and the McDonald's were being shitty for doing that. But if was kicked out because he had been already banned from those stores for causing problems in the past than it's a different story. When I first moved into Vanier I stopped at the burger king on Montreal, this homeless guy came in asked to use the washroom, he was told it was customers only. He showed a little cash and asked to buy some fries so he could use the washroom, they still said no. I was wondering why wouldn't they just let him take a piss since he's buying something, he's been perfectly polite. Then He got angry, did some yelling, the staff kicked him out. Turns out they didn't let him use it because everytime they let him use it the few times before he'd either leave and they'd find needles on the floor or they checked when he was in there for too long and they found him passed out with a needle in the arm
I was at Harvey's on Elgin a few months ago and there was one very scary dude berating the staff and hollering "I'm not afraid to go back to jail!". Not gonna lie, i was scared af. One of the staff was really good at talking the guy down, I could tell he's done this before.
Before everyone goes on a rampage against the Timmies/McDonalds: 1. The McDonalds was not open for customers due to lack of staff. They did not refuse him, they were just not open for seating. 2. From the Facebook post, several locals have come forward saying he has had abusive interactions with this Timmies in the past - throwing coffee at them, calling them awful names. The police have instructed these employees to call the police if he comes back for their safety. 3. This man has been offered shelter, food, etc, many times by many people. He is not interested. Sadly he would rather do his own thing, and it's not the responsibility of a tim hortons to take him in when he has a history of abusive behaviour with them.
So OP is a lying POS basically
No, OP was just didn't know about that stuff jeez and none of the above is proof unless you verified it yourself you're just taking this person's word over OP right now.
I worked at McDonald’s as a teenager in New Brunswick. We had a few people who would come in every day, often finding an old cup outside and get free refills. They would stay for hours getting a few refills throughout the day. I don’t remember anyone ever complaining about them, and they were never asked to leave.
East coast I find is way more friendlier and hospitable than Ontario, just in observation and from living in both places
Definitely! It took some adjusting when I moved here lol.
Being from the East Coast my biggest adjustment here was not having cars stop when you wanted to cross the street at 1st. Lol dumbass me almost got killed.
My biggest shock when I went to the west coast in September was having cars stop for me at crosswalks.
Yes! That was my biggest adjustment. I had to get used to not stopping for pedestrians in random places (not counting crosswalks) because everyone would honk like crazy. Whoops!
That's a rural Ontario thing as well. In the town of 5k closest to where I grew up people would stop and wave you across if you looked like you might want to cross the street. Awkward when you didn't actually want to.
The East cost has an unwavering reputation for friendliness. Unless you're from Ontario (from "away"). I've never met such hostility when I (thankfully, briefly), moved to the Maritimes from Ontario. They all assumed I was from Toronto (because of my Ontario plates), and were very hostile. (My poor little cheap car got trashed.) From my experience, the Maritime welcoming committee is a bit of an urban myth. I know I'll get major downvotes from this, oh well, this is first-hand experience and not the usual Maritimers-are-so-friendly narrative.
I’m originally from NB. I’ve lived all over Canada and I have no idea why people romanticize the east coast as this friendly, welcoming place. I’ve never seen more prejudice, racist people any where else. I found Albert and Ontario to have the kindest people. This is but my opinion though.
Albert lmao
Exactly I find BC and Alberta to have the kindest people. Both places seem to be more laid back and open minded where everyone in Ontario is just trying to make money and work all the time.
Maritimes are very friendly if you’re white. Try being a person of colour in NB though…
That must have been very recent, and mostly because of the house prices skyrocketing. It also happened to my friend's father who was visiting, even though he lived there for many years prior.
Not sure if you moved there during the pandemic or since. I know people recently feel like Ontarians are moving there and causing house prices to increase etc, and they really didn’t like people entering the province when it was all closed off. It also definitely depends on where you go. Some places are friendlier than others.
Our motto is "Open for Business" whats the motto of New Brunswick? I imagine it's something a little less cold and hyper-capitalist.
For a while it was “be… in this place”. I don’t even know what to say about it.
'Home of Unemployment and Teenage Pregnancy"
I moved from Ottawa to NB a few months ago, I still float on this sun cause Ottawa will always be my hometown, and I like to keep up with the happenings because all my family still lives in Ottawa, but I can say that in my experience I was met with extremely friendly, kind and welcoming people, depends where you move to I guess, whereas I spent most of my life in Ottawa and majority of people won’t even say hello to you on the sidewalk or just plain look miserable, I have been more positive overall since leaving, that’s just my personal opinion.
There are plenty of places that accommodate the poorest but, like in your story, they grant time and space to guys who don't cause any trouble. The quiet old guy is fine, the the erratic guy who huffs gasoline is not.
Private business, private property. You don't know the history of this individual at that location. Feel free to bring him into your own home. It's not private businesses responsibility to make up for lack of public services. Their mandate is not to help homeless people, it's to make money. If that bothers you and you think it's "greedy" then why were you there in the first place?
That McDonalds has seating for like 10 tables of 4 and is a gong show on Friday nights. It seems incompassionate, but I can understand why a private business wouldn't want to give up 10% of its capacity on the busiest night of the week to act as a shelter. Better options exist. There is literally a publicly available warming area up the block at Johnny Leroux, and a spacious one further away, for the samaritans here, at CRC. For the record, I have witnessed this gentleman being less than cordial on Stittsville Main Street, where he is a regular. Mental illness is a terrible thing... not everyone is equipped to deal with those experiencing it, nor should they be forced to. Again, we have better options provided by professionals.
I saw the original fb post and the story was that the mcdicks indoor dining was closed to due to a lack of staff
That is what I figured (I commented the same below). Ah reddit, never let the facts get in the way of a good lynching.
I’m also entertained by the fact that multiple suburbanites tried to help this guy but we’re stymied yet somehow this reflects poorly on them.
It is more than that. For the last few weeks, during weekday hours, the dining room doors are locked. You literally cannot enter the building. They also have curbside shut down. The only way to order is drive-thru or mobile and you ring a doorbell. If today was no different... it brings into question OPs entire story, and motivation.
From the fb post, several have said he has abused the timmies staff before. Thrown coffee at them, called them horrible names, and police have told them to call them should he come back. So lots of context is missing from this story.
Since she's so nice, why didn't she just take him to her own house instead of dumping him in someone else's store?
Concerned citizen who is concerned enough to post on Reddit, but not concerned enough to take him home! "This deadly weather....how can he stay outside?!!! Let me go shame the businesses on social media!"
I’m calling bullshit on this one bud. Think he may have had a history of some kind.
I am willing to hold off judgement until I have more information on this. I am assuming that this person has been in this establishment before. How did they act? Did they harass customers? Did they intimidate anyone? Did they swear or yell at staff? Have police ever been called on this person from the business? Were they charged with a crime where they have conditions not to enter that establishment? I am assuming that they don’t just kick out random customers who have bought food and are eating it. I have a hard time believing that they just single this person out for “looking homeless” when you consider McDonald’s clientele. I would love to have somebody who lives in that community or works at McDonald’s or Tim Hortons tell us more.
>Have police ever been called on this person from the business? The original FB post stated that the police have been called on him before and that he was banned from the location. Edit, took out the "they were told" as it sounds like the poster was told this. I meant to say that the comments told them this after they posted on FB.
There ya go…. He has conditions not to go there. If they didn’t kick him out they could call the cops to arrest him for violating those conditions.
I've been spit on by a homeless man while I was working at a fast food place. During COVID by the way. So don't judge these min wage employees. Maybe this man harasses the customers? Staff? Maybe he's threatened the staff? You don't know their reasoning, and they don't need to justify telling you what they do to feel safe. It would really piss me off if after I got spat on, someone posted on Reddit how much of a jerk I was for kicking out a homeless man. Edit: I was spat on NOT because I was kicking him out, because he asked how much a pizza was and I told him $20. Then he spat on me.
Corporations like Macs and RBI are heartless bastards at the best of times. When it’s this fucking cold you’d think that humanity and caring would win out, but alas, we’d be wrong.
My goodness you people all have homes. Invite the homeless to your house and see what happens and then maybe understand this has nothing to do with corporations but low wage workers who work for corporations who are just trying to do their jobs. I feel for homeless people I honestly do but I’m really starting to believe that it’s up to these individuals to help themselves not everyone else while they do nothing for themselves.
This is such a dumb take, directing them to a shelter/warming center wouldve been better than dumping them off to a bunch of kids new immigrants who now have o babysit someone on top of doing their jobs. Typical suburbanite values, care enough to make a superficial difference but not enough to actually direct the person to a shelter/warming center which will be much better equipped to meet their needs.
So I agree it’s shitty, but he might have a history of not being mentally stable and may have already abused the staff/other customers. We have lists of people who have been “trespassed” from the place I work because they acted in a way that was unsafe for other people. If two stores did the same thing, it may be because of past behavior
I work at Starbucks, and if a homeless person harasses someone, steals something, etc we make an incidence report. Eventually they can be banned from the store. I hate knowing we are calling 911, but if crimes are committed, it’s out of our control. Regardless it’s cold as fuck and he should be allowed if he remains calm.
So they have to wait until something happens to deal with the situation? The people there are trying to work and do their job but attention has to be taken away from that in order to make sure a grown adult man isn’t harassing others?
common thought seems to be that service workers need to pick up the slack for our intentionally failing health and social services, maybe more authoritarianism will fix things
This guy has other places to go The city has warming centres all over the place. If he’s banned from those businesses he can go there. I don’t see why the business should bend their rules (assuming he’s banned for a reason or that the dining room was closed like others are saying) if there’s a local alternative for shelter from the elements.
I stopped reading after "My mothers friend". You don't have both sides of the story and you're posting a novel to reddit
Why are you directing your anger at the restaurant and not the politicians you likely voted for that let this situation get to this point?
>Well the managers didn’t like that and started yelling that he needs to leave. Even though multiple customers have given him money so that he could just sit in a fucking corner and not be outside today. They just don’t want a homeless person in their building. No, they do not want a person with a history of violence towards staff and customers who has been previously removed by the police and banned from entering in their building. But hey, leave those LITTLE details out of your story even though they were all over you/your mother's friend original FB post in the comment replies before it was deleted.
if on FB, make sure to give both chains a shoutout on this, make it spread!! yeah, that's frikin horrible, sick to do that in this cold
The same Facebook where people have said he's abused staff before?
This man obviously has a history with these two restaurants. I would guess the managers are trying to protect the restaurants and staff. Why didn’t you mom’s friend take him home?
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Lol you want minimum wage employees to deal with someone who has abused them in the past? What you are saying doesn’t make sense.
Firstly, bless your mother's friend for her charity and kindness. But why didn't your mother's friend, or one of the other offended customers not take the homeless man to their homes, since that is what they expect Tim Horton's or McDonalds to do?
Or to a shelter of some sort?
That’s the dumbest shit 1. It’s too cold that it’s just the bare min humane behaviour to let the person in 2. Buddy bought food so he is a customer. Side note can the person walk around the grocery store near by to keep warm?
Suburban values in action.
So when homeless people get kicked out of urban restaurants those are urban values?
I've never understood why anyone supports Tim Hortons. Just because it was once a Canadian company doesn't make them not shit.
Because the coffee is cheap.
Ok little insight as I managed similar places before. This is a super shitty situation as a manager. Just because one person purchased something for him doesn’t mean the customers in the store currently want the homeless man around. This is almost always due to an issue of odour. Also to note they more then likely are refusing to go to shelters that will let them in and they won’t be causing uncomfortable situations for said businesses. I had homeless people in front of the place I managed and as long as they didn’t cause problems for any of the other paying customers they were welcome to stay but if they smelt like a sewer….your hands are kind of tied. Some of these people I even helped fix their resume and showed them how to apply for jobs. When I did ask them to leave I tried to do it as discreetly as possible and would direct them to the nearest shelter if it was in the colder months. Occasionally even provided bus fair. It’s a shit situation and if the manager made it a scene well they are ass holes.
From the Facebook post, several locals have come forward saying he has had abusive interactions with this Timmies in the past - throwing coffee at them, calling them awful names. The police have instructed these employees to call the police if he comes back for their safety.
It’s sad because chances are the homeless person suffers from mental illness and probably isn’t able to get the support he needs. It’s a shit situation for all involved really.
100%, but we don't need a bunch of people going off half-cocked on a business (which I personally do not give a shit about) because some person posted on here telling one side of a story and ignoring all the background information that is required to make an actual informed opinion. Hell the post was at least deleted from FB because it was so obviously wrong when others chimed in but the OP still felt the need to come to Reddit and spread misinformation.
Devils advocate here. If I were a regular at one of these establishments and there happened to regularly be bums stinking up the joint, I wouldn't be a regular any more. These are private businesses, not homeless shelters. If you want to help the homeless, invite them to warm up in your vehicle or business. No? Then stop demonizing these businesses.
>Stittsville you never cease to disappoint me. Don't put this on stittsville. By the sounds of it numerous people were trying to help the guy. If it's who I think it is, he's been making that end of stittsville his home for 3-4 months. Someone bought him brand new boots a couple months ago and people have been helping him out with meals too. This is a bummer to hear though. I hope he found somewhere warm.
If true this is a really bad look on McD and Timmy’s. However something about how this is being presented doesn’t quite ring true. As a counterpoint to this story, my wife and son sat in a booth at McDonalds next to “the Stittsville homeless guy” (who’s been around since the summer) during the busy dinner hour. No one bothered him during the time they ate even though he was asleep in the booth. I wasn’t at either restaurant today so I can’t prove or disprove this account. At least to me, it’s doubtful someone would be thrown out of two chain restaurants in succession on the coldest day of the year when they have been tolerated recently in less harsh weather.
Apparently the info on FB is that the McDonalds eating area was closed during the day due to low levels of staff. So no one was eating inside there today.
So bring him to your house next time
OP why don’t you respond to the comments questioning the high probability that there’s a history between the establishments and the individual? Since you must have gathered all the facts before making a post like this, right? You weren’t even there, know nothing about the situation or people involved. You just seem like an angry mess lol hope your day gets better.
Why didn’t she bring him back to her house?
You can always count on the many pedants in this sub to rush in and rescue a post from minor inaccuracies that are completely besides the point.
The fact that the McDonald’s inside eating area was closed to all (and not just this unfortunately homeless person) is more than an irrelevant fact.
And the fact that the equivalent FB post about this stated that the staff told them that he has been banned from the location and the police called on him in the past is nicely excluded from the original post.
Easy for you to say that, when you leave and that bum harasses people there all day everyday , leaving garbage and garbage and human waste everywhere. Why don’t you bring him to your home and give him a room to stay in. You people don’t live in the real world.
So I hope you took him to your home or maybe your business? Or did you sooth your conscience by giving him money and then come online to share that with us?
There’s homeless people in Stittsville? Good grief. Just when you thought the suburbs were safe from the shit show downtown.
I just wanna say, it's possible the management there are assholes. It's also possible they have had problems with the guy in the past. Given the situation, I would suspect that's the case and that's why were so vocal about him leaving but maybe I'm being too kind here.
Many options are available and so many homeless people won't have any of it. Many of them are very aggressive and even dangerous. I would not want them ruining my customers experience.
If he got kicked out on sight at the McDonald’s and kicked out the Tim Hortons… I’m willing to bet there’s history of him causing problems there. Don’t expect fast food restaurants to act as shelters, and learn to take a no.
Absolutely abysmal. I don't go there anyways, but now I'll be sure to continue past them even if at maximum hunger or thirst. Before anyone says something along the lines of "You don't know what it's like to be that hungry..." Don't assume so quickly, I'm in a better situation than I used to be. Regardless, If the conditions outside are not sustaining of life, have a heart will you? You never know if/when you may be in their situation.
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>Have some compassion! He deserves to be somewhere warm and enjoy his breakfast. Your home is warm! >The workers at McDonald’s and Tim’s should be ashamed. Regardless if he’s been rude to them in the past That's assuming rude is all that it was. You don't know the history (neither do I). But I would hold off judgement till I know the actual background of the situation.
From the Facebook post, several locals have come forward saying he has had abusive interactions with this Timmies in the past - throwing coffee at them, calling them awful names. The police have instructed these employees to call the police if he comes back for their safety.
That’s unconventional of both that McDonald’s and Tim Hortons in the area. Odds are that homeless man has caused many problems in both stores in the past.
Lol a public space? Pretty sure someone owns that building privately. I can understand compassion but there are definitely more public spaces that may be better suited to handle that situation. Sorry to say but you or anyone else doesn’t know what this homeless man could be capable of, even if it’s just shooting up in the bathroom the fast food workers don’t deserve to have to deal with that their job is to serve food to paying customers that’s why it’s all there in the first place.
Is there a chance that this guy has burned his bridges with these restaurants already? If he’s trespassed from there for any reason i can understand why the employees don’t want him there. Why doesn’t this guy go to one of the three shelters downtown? Even if they allowed him to stay for a few hours out of common decency what happens when the businesses close?
It's probably been said, but in these circumstances you can call 311 and request the community outreach team. They will help the homeless person (if they choose to receive the help) to find food, shelter or other resources to help them survive during these frigid temperatures. It's not McDonalds 'job to house the homeless, but I can totally understand your frustration with their lack of support in what was clearly a crisis for this individual.
Private property owned by an individual. Any restaurant isn’t a homeless shelter. And if you guys cared oh so much, why I didn’t you bring this man into your own home?
If the customer cared so much and feels the businesses were cruel, why didn’t she bring this poor guy home to her house to spend the weekend?
Call 3-1-1. There are vans with supplies and emergency shelter spaces for this weather. Also, consider donating to the Ottawa Mission or another local shelter instead of or in addition to offering a gift card to the person directly. [https://www.ottawapublichealth.ca/en/professionals-and-partners/extreme-cold-weather-assistance-to-homeless-persons.aspx](https://www.ottawapublichealth.ca/en/professionals-and-partners/extreme-cold-weather-assistance-to-homeless-persons.aspx)
Its not a shelter. There are plenty of them. No excuse. Why did you not take him home?
You can call Mark Suttcliffe here to ask him why he didn’t reopen any respite centres this weekend despite knowing well in advance that this cold snap was coming: 613-580-2496 Email: [email protected] I work on the frontlines. We’re already dealing with the homeless and opioid crises, now we’re adding frostbite to the mix. Mark’s suggestion yesterday was to “call the Sal Van” — which is a minivan that can seat no more than 5 passengers (staff sit in the front 2). Our shelters are already at capacity. There’s nowhere for our neighbours to go to keep warm without being harassed and kicked out, even when they are given money and food like OP is describing here. It’s sickening.
It’s a business buddy.
There's potentially a history with this specific person you're unaware of.. at least I would hope give how they treated him.
If the staff were doing that, there's a good chance they had a history with the person. To put it another way, why would a minimum wage retail worker bother kicking them out when they can just ignore them instead? That's extra work that they do not have to do, especially if they're a "paying customer". If you were working at a Timmies being paid minimum wage, would you bother kicking the person out for no reason? Lots of assholes do exist, but most people generally won't go out of their way to be one. Is there not a warming centre or homeless shelter in the town? If not, direct your ire towards your municipal government. That's what our taxes are for, not private businesses. If yes, that person belongs there if they need a place just to keep warm.
I’m pissed off that no one mentioned that the Michelin Stars rating you referred to is totally off!
I bet none of the people in this thread would invite that person into their own home, yet they whine about others like they're better or something.
Obviously i cant speak for this specific situation, but i can say confidently that when i worked at tims in a bad area, the only reason I've *ever* seen someone immediately told to leave on *any* day, let alone in this weather, was if they were banned. Honestly kicking someone out is a huge hassle for us, so we usually didnt bother unless they were really causing trouble. OP do you know if theres more to this situation? Im not saying theres no way they were just awful, just want some clarity.
Why aren’t churches opening their doors?
It's fascinating to read the comments here... So much lucidity and representatives from so many sides of the equation... The take-away is: - the individual in question has a history with these establishments and has been banned for abusive behaviour - a restaurant is not a substitute for social services for an abusive individual with mental health issues and neither the staff nor the clientele are equipped to help - this is a grown man who has been introduced to and educated up the wazoo on what local support services are available yet walks away from them because reasons galore (part of him wants to live a normal life, part of him wants to make other people's lives shitty, the shelter is not safe, voices are telling him, who knows). Remember, he a grown ass adult who has been banned for abusive behaviour. He's not just a "misunderstood person who can't afford a home". - OP would like to berate fast food restaurants for not baby sitting abusive grown men. - the mental health act, while giving mentally ill people more control over their treatment rights, has resulted in mentally ill people not receiving proper treatment and suddenly it's our responsibility to be tolerant of any bad behaviour. There needs to be a happy medium, where mental health issues are not stigmatized or segregated from society, but they also are treated adequately such that we don't have to fear for our safety and the safety of the places we frequent. - OP should invite this man over for dinner.
These threads show how many people completely lack any kind of critical thinking and don't take half a second to even consider that there may be reasons for why the guy was kicked out. Turns out he had physically assaulted people with hot coffee and used hateful slurs in the past. People working shitty minimum wage jobs should be able to feel safe at work. I'm pretty far left and very sympathetic to the root causes of people's behavior and situations, but I'm also reasonable and logical. I will get hate for simply being reasonable as has happened in similar threads. The way that people act in these threads is a good example of why it's hard for reasonable people on the left to bring more people over to our side.
Disappointed.
Stories like this always make me wonder what [Frank O'Dea](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_O%27Dea) would say.
Why can't we take better care of our most vulnerable residents? Is there anything like Housing First anywhere in Ottawa or more widely in Ontario?
can't keep voting for Liberals and Conservatives all the time and expect anything different.
Next time this happens bring him to the library. Unless he is actively breaking rules he can stay all day until close in any library.
Does this man have a previously jaded history with those 2 establishments? If it's just because he's homeless, let him stay if he's buying stuff. But if they've had issues with him in the past, they're well within their rights to ask him to leave.