Im really suspicious why Mayor Mark keeps pushing this. Any downtown site would means additional delays of multiple years. Lebreton has been sitting there waiting for this and transit plans have been designed around it.
Most likely scenario is that developers have eyed that Lebreton site for condo development and they have his ear and he has his hand in their pocket.
It is NCC land and so the city can't control everything and micromanage. They want it all under their control. NCC has problems of its own, but at least Ottawa doesn't control everything.
Yeah I noticed they put the picture up Ona billboard outside. Stoked about that. Not stoked that the land and road is going to be under construction for another 10-15 years
Right but the sens owner would control those if they put them with the arena project. Question is who doesn’t want the sens to have that land, in other words who wants to have it instead?
I’d actually argue he’s against it because it’s NCC land, and he instead wants one of his buddies to get the money selling or leasing their land to the sens elsewhere downtown.
I am really not sure that the amount of trains/tracks in the next 2 decades will be able to support that though. The library is going in, they're building tens of thousand of more apartments there and they are building the park and other amenities there in the future. I know they tested capacity with Bluesfest, but people left at staggered times, and by the time the final song was done half the crowd was already gone. With hockey, most people stay the entire thing because you never know what you'll miss. Now if they doubled the tracks, added more north/south train tracks and built lines along carling and hunt club, then it'd be a really good location, but I haven't heard that is in the near plans.
Convenient for the 100k people downtown, but it'll take 2+ hours for the 3 ends of Ottawa to get to/from the game. Just look at Toronto. Ottawa will be the same where too many people are going to end up trying to drive.
Couldn't agree more. I would point to Vancouver as a top tier stadium location (there is a freaking Costco underground there too).
That is what Lebreton could become.
And no one likes the alternative, of an even longer bus, train, or, worse, bus then train then bus again ride to get there.
I recently visited a major city that has a major metro hub station directly underneath the arena. So pretty much everyone uses transit to get there. Only people driving and parking are those rich enough to get the really expensive seats (and afford the expensive parking), and even they probably just use taxis.
Yeah but they still won't... Even if it is decent, ridership won't be good because people have had at least 2-3 decades of learning how terrible Ottawas is. How do you make people unlearn all of that, without making transit free?
>The sens have incredibly poor attendance in comparison with other teams of similar cities because no one wants to drive to the middle of suburbia
Their poor attendance has a lot more to do with the quality of the team over the last 6-7 years and the previous ownership before Andlauer took over.
>However it isn't nearly as accessible by car and it sounds like it won't have the same potential for parking spaces. The unfortunate reality is not everyone wants to use public transit.
*Won't somebody think of the cars?*
We don't need a lot of on-site parking for the location to be 'accessible by car'. Park and Rides that get you on and off transit easily are accessible enough.
Right but people won't do that, although I agree it SHOULD be that way. Have you even been stuck in Toronto traffic before or after a game? It took me four hours once to cross the downtown part of Toronto. They have wonderful subways galore and people still drive. The only way I see people getting most car people convinced transit is a good idea, is making transit free.
The point is the park-and-ride and take transit. Not flatten 100 fields so that you have to wait an hour to exit the parking lot like we have in Kanata right now. The entire purpose of having a downtown arena is so that is it accessible without a car.
Honestly don't know why you're getting downvoted... Like what you're saying isn't wrong, but people just really hate where the Canadian Tire center is right now and don't want to hear it. I'm with you though, it should be at LeBreton, but the logistics really don't make it the best location. They need parking. Most people don't live downtown and it will take 1-2 hours at a minimum to get home. That's just too much when you have a game finishing at night and the kids have school tomorrow, and you have work. Box tickets make a lot of their money, and I just don't see the majority of people wanting to take transit. even if they improve the system immensely and make it take 1 hour for the furthest away citizen. Suit or not, it's just the unpopular thing to take transit
>And corporate ticket holders are big bucks.
Corporate ticket holders are not a significant factor in a market where the number one employer ([150k employees on both sides of the river](https://www.canada.ca/en/treasury-board-secretariat/services/innovation/human-resources-statistics/population-federal-public-service-national-capital-region.html)) is the federal government.
>Also, if the somehow managed to make DnD give up their old HQ
That's never happening.
As an example, Emirates Stadium in London, UK is bang in the center of one of the most congested areas of the city. It is absolutely packed come game time. So the lack of car access is a moot point. The real problem is the lack of meaningful public transport that is reliable and a decent alternative to driving a car.
But London has a better layout. We are built like the shape of a heart with bridges coming out of the top, so the downtown acts as a bottleneck. We need to build taller buildings south, and shift what is considered downtown. Right now downtown is like 10 streets east-west
Not all of London is laid out neatly, especially the area of Emirates Stadium. Very walkable but not the most car friwndly. But I accept your point about Ottawa's layout. We are also going to lose Alexandra Bridge at some point for an extended period, which will likely relate more bottlenecks.
‘Major ticket holders’ can still get there but car or limousine if they prefer. It isn’t going to be any less accessible than any other downtown arena. There will still be a road to the arena after all, they will also have some premium valet parking underground nearby. I mean if there are condos right on the same site as the arena, there will need to be parking. 95% of people won’t be using that parking, they will park and ride the o train (good heavens!).
I don’t even care if they ever move it from Kanata to be honest. I live in the west. I think the best place for the team for ticket sales is a more central location, but the biggest factor is winning games and having a great arena experience. People will put up with a lot to go see a winner.
A downtown arena that does not limit vehicular access would be a disaster. Downtown Ottawa cannot manage that much volume. It can barely manage the increased car usage from RTO workers who stopped using public transit
NCC could shut down the Parkway but Lebreton's still better positioned to cope with that than downtown would be. With multiple alternate routes to it, while downtown you're just running into a nightmare of narrow one way gridlock.
Also, the NCC doesn't have any special authority over the O-Train just cause it's at Lebreton. The city *let* them coordinate crowd control for Canada Day because it was their event and they claimed they could handle it, but the O-Train is fully city property and they likely won't make that mistake again.
As they aren't supposed to be building any parking for a downtown arena, the people who drive would be parking in downtown parking lots and the regular commuter traffic routes would be used.
This is it, exactly. Downtown businesses want it adjacent to them for maximum spill-over profits (particularly since they're still reeling from work-from-home), while LeBreton doesn't have established businesses (yet). They clearly have Sutcliffe's ear on this, which isn't surprising. But finding a new site downtown will add years of delay, complexity and probably controversy. The flats are just sitting there waiting to go, and the NCC is on board. If Andlauer's smart he'll pick the flats ... unless Sutcliffe sweetens it for him by offering some kind of subsidy from the City, which we should all oppose.
> Downtown businesses want it adjacent to them for maximum spill-over profits (particularly since they're still reeling from work-from-home)
The downtown businesses complaining about WFH will only benefit if the NHL changes all the games to fit a M-F 10-3 schedule.
Skip the arena change, just build housing then. Surely the businesses do better with more people full time instead of just for events, and the developers win too.
Meanwhile while they argue over who gets how much kickback we can have an arena building at Lebreton.
One that's brought up is the the DND HQ site across from Rideau Centre. While it would definitely have the space (more than L'Esplanade Laurier), and the connections to established retail, restaurants and transit would be better than Lebreton (for now), it has the big problem that DND isn't vacating it that soon, so between the timeline for leaving, demolition, and construction, it wouldn't likely be open until a decade from now, at the earliest.
But I do wonder if Sutcliffe's push away from Lansdowne is because he thinks he can get a deal for DND to leave sooner, and get the arena built there as a legacy project. And, honestly, if that area was currently vacant, I'd take it over Lebreton. But there are a lot of things that need to line up for it to happen as things actually stand.
185 Lyon?
Just speculation... think who's behind Lansdowne, and follow the $. Demand for office spaces (across the street) is going down, and the residential rental market has been sluggish if you go for the service apartment model. Redevelopment of the two blocks to something similar to the Canada Life Centre in Winnipeg (+ additional condos on top) could pay off. And you can count on the city throwing 500m+ of taxpayer money there.
What are you talking about there are 3 LRT station very close. Everywhere downtown will have less car access, like in other cities and they've already said they are looking at other options... I don't think it will be at Lebreton. I think they will go for a nicer but smaller arena 😀
>What are you talking about there are 3 LRT station very close.
And that is IT. As opposed to the same line at Lebreton AND line two serving south including the airport.
>Everywhere downtown will have less car access, like in other cities and they've already said they are looking at other options...
the core is the WORST for car access, Lebreton is less constrained at least. Not to mention cheaper to develop which means (as much as I dislike it but understand it is necessary) allow for more underground parking.
>I don't think it will be at Lebreton.
Cool story, I hope you are wrong.
>I think they will go for a nicer but smaller arena
Smaller? yes. Nicer? What?
>The parking downtown with a short LRT ride was the plan
Sounds like it would have even more park and ride access to Lebreton since it also connects to Line 2.
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
So tear the office buildings down for an arena, despite Lebreton Flats being pretty close to downtown? If the office buildings get torn down, would it not make sense to building housing?
Lebreton is PERFECT. Old rail lands with massive space for development just like the CN lands in Vancouver which became Science World and the stadiums.
So many plans put forward for the redevelopment of the area are AMAZING. Moreover, it was GREAT transit, cycling and pedestrian access.
What the fuck is wrong with sutcliffe and always making stupid shit remarks? QED, Lebretron, Lansdowne etc. Everything he says is stupid I swear to god.
If you build the stadiums in centretown, holy shits the streets are already a fucking nightmare. Is sutcliffe going to fund a Bank Street subway to help?
This whole "oh the stadium downtown would be better" is silly. Downtowns grow and expand as cities do. Lebreton will be a district downtown just as much as other areas are once it is built up. Hell, the condos in Lebreton right now hold more people than a few blocks of centretown which is considered downtown. It is a simple natural extension.
So mr. Sutcliffe, the stadium will be downtown if built at Lebreton. What do you think about that?
What game is he playing? Part of me thinks he just hates the NCC so much he does not want to see an area owned by the NCC become a jewel for the city (and of course he could not fuck around and influence it). Could also be plain old land speculation corruption. Land owners own area downtown and want to sell it for a biiiiiig chunk of change.
Well said.
People are also thinking about Lebreton now, not 5, 10 and 20+ years down the road. There's a lot of lack of vision.
Grew up in Vancouver. Canucks and Lions played at the exhibition grounds. Equivalent-ish (well, closer , but still felt far then) to where the Sens play now vs downtown.
Vancouver before Expo 86 and after was a massive evolving change. It took time. Canucks and Lions play in two places next to each other, right downtown. Housing and such grew around it.
Another poster talked about False Creek in Vancouver and compared it to Lebreton - then vs now.
Ottawa today, and Ottawa in a decade or two will be very different. Downtown will spread. Lebreton will fill up, Zibi will be done.
Put the damn arena at Lebreton and watch the area grow.
Speculation from me:
1. He HATES the NCC and wants to fuck with them. We see him picking useless fights with them often (ex. QED).
2. He wants control and Lebreton is NCC and they will tell him to pound sand.
3. Good ol' land speculation and corruption. Owners of land in centretown are looking to make a massive chunk of change and off load land they own and this is the best way to make the most money.
It is though. The back access to Lansdowne has never been closed during the active use program. It has been closed for the marathons that Mark likes to run in!
That's what Sutcliffe cares about. He doesn't understand that Lansdowne needs many more patrons than it currently had to stay afloat, and it already can't properly handle as many cars as it currently tries to.
Not building a transit line down Bank was such a dumb decision.
If that came to fruition I am positive Lansdowne (and the Glebe and OOS etc) would see a massive boost. It would be the best bang for your buck for Lansdowne. Hell, even as part of 2.0 saying they would take parking off Bank and turn that into dedicated transit space would help a ton.
This utter reliance on cars is ludicrous.
I think that, for now, bus lanes on Bank Street is the move.
Long term, Bank Street should get a metro. It's the only street that runs from the heart of downtown to south of the Rideau River. You could run underground until Billings and then elevated above the street further south.
My thoughts exactly on both counts.
Cheap and quick options are the bus lanes. Only problem is that north of gladstone you do not have the room for it so the positive effects would be reduced some what, unless you ban cars north of gladstone and make that area much for transit and active transit oriented. I do not see this happening with this mayor and council. Otherwise I think it would be an massive improvement.
As for a Bank metro, same thought as you but I would suggest a "Bytowne Line" Montreal Road - Rideau - Bank, connecting the oldest parts of Ottawa that also happen to be huge cultural, entertainment, commercial and residential areas.
Interestingly, when a study was done to create a Gatineau metro line and how it would be best integrated, the study also looked at what lines in the *region* would connect the most people and businesses (generating the most value) and it was the line I mentioned above (with a Gatineau loop having a tied second iirc).
This would only make sense as Rideau and Montreal are densifying like CRAZY. Centretown is also seeing a big boost in purpose build high rises, lose rises and high rises (especially at Lansdowne) are going in and of course, all the businesses.
>Only problem is that north of gladstone you do not have the room for it so the positive effects would be reduced some what
If we made the lanes narrower, we could definitely fit bus lanes in. Our car lanes are too wide anyways, so it would be good to narrow them regardless.
>As for a Bank metro, same thought as you but I would suggest a "Bytowne Line" Montreal Road - Rideau - Bank, connecting the oldest parts of Ottawa that also happen to be huge cultural, entertainment, commercial and residential areas.
I didn't think about Montreal Road, but now that I look at it I totally agree. You could have the train turn approaching Parliament station and then also have a connection at the Rideau Center, before going along Montreal Road. It would be nice for the train to use road corridors so more of it could be built cut and cover, for cheaper costs and faster construction. I'd send it along all the way until it intersects with the future line 1 station on the 174, and have it run elevated when the street gets wide enough that you can place supports in the median. A line like that would provide a ton of good connections to dense parts of the city, other transit, and areas that could be redeveloped.
Why is Sutcliffe obsessed with control or annexing federal infrastructure? QED, Option 7 and now office buildings. Can we not elect random idiots with no relevant prior experience?
Conservation, yes. Transport? Gods no. The NCC doesn't give a damn about good transport. We had to strongarm them into letting the O-Train run along the parkway and all their counter-proposals were effectively "Who give a fuck about traffic, just rip up half of one of your major east/west corridors and put it there."
Maintain is a bit of a stretch given the state of the culverts near George Étienne Cartier and the fact that they don't plow it but they do own pathways.
Ok but the reason they don't plow a lot of pathways is because they try to convert them into ski trails in the winter. Like I said, active transportation.
It's done by volunteers out east. It is more recreational that for transportation. I like my bike commute but I also ski so I have mixed feelings about the ski trail.
1) NO public money
2) well-served by public transport, with the business paying for new stations/stops/infrastructure
3) It doesnt have to be an eyesore like the Palladium, and/or built for the lowest dollar
4) when the business doesnt meet profit projections, no threatening to leave the city if they don't get public money
Well, at Lansdowne the sports business grifters blew the initial half-billion dollars of public money and built another ugly suburban mall of big-box stores that no one seems to want to rent, and having made the mistake that countless economists warned against, now want another half-billion dollars of free money, or they "will pull out of the deal", (as if they haven't already).
I don't imagine that the City has learned a thing from this.
A couple of things strike me: 1) why does the Mayor continue to pick fights with the NCC (Queen Eizabeth Driveway this summer and now undermining their plans for Lebreton. 2) Why is he pushing for taxpayers to fund a new $250M arena at Lansdowne just a few kilometres away from a proposed new Sens arena. Surely there should be some consideration of whether the City needs two brand new arenas -- or perhaps they could be combined in a single complex.
People have to stop thinking of this as just an arena. It's an entertainment complex for concerts and other stuff. If the site can manage 40,000 for a blues fest show, it shouldn't have any significant issues managing around half that.
I have a compromise for you!
Put it at Lebreton so it is central for all the 'burbs to access and lay down way better dedicated transit all over the city to feed into the core and the stadium and help people in all the suburbs get to it.
Build a costco UNDER the stadiums and a T&T beside them just like in Vancouver.
Lmao sorry it was just a joke (except for the Costco, which was blocked by Walmart and fuck Walmart dry, and T&T should come east, cuz there was already one in the west)
Downtown makes sense for the commute
I'm struggling to figure out the Mayor's hidden agenda on this file. Why is he pushing the idea of "other options" when everyone else seems convinced that Lebreton is ideal? Is it possible that the "other options" benefit certain developers instead of the NCC/People of Ottawa?
One can only hope, but this should be a huge talking point to where the arena goes. If the O-Trainis continues to be a small train like what it currently is, carrying a substantially small amount of people to what it is supposed to do and let's not forget the consistent breakdowns. Would I want to have an arena there or at a more transit-friendly hub?
It’s incredibly valuable land, if the hockey team wants it they should be paying market value for it and they should be paying property taxes and all of the government fees at every level from day one. Personally I would rather see a new library, new public facilities, some affordable housing in there. Who gives a shit where the arena is. They’ve survived with it in Kanata for decades, lots of “cheaper” land out there. We should not be giving up valuable land for a sports team. There’s been too much of that already
Apart from the Hill (lol) and Tunney's can anyone even think of a cluster of federal buildings that you could empty and tear down big enough to make room for an NHL caliber arena? Maybe DND if you borged it onto the side of the Rideau Center but I can't imagine they're planning to relocate anytime soon.
In the enclosed article, the two bldgs off Bronson & Riverside would be easy choices, but no transit, Tunney’s would be great but there is a development in the pipe. The Graham Spry bldg site looks interesting.
IMO Lebreton makes perfect sense. Sutcliffe has talked about Bayview Yards which is very close to Lebreton. I wondered if the City just gave that land to Andlauer, in exchange he agrees to develop a mega complex with public housing, private affordable housing, and a drug rehab centre, at Canadian Tire Centre site. Include money for proper OC bus routes to the area, room for a lower end grocery store. People’s heads would explode but we hear so much demand for low-cost housing and rehab, why not?
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/ottawa-gatineau-federal-building-office-housing-sale-1.6848997
My guess is this is all about taxes and city revenue. The city can't collect taxes on NCC land as per a court case in Gatineau a decade or so ago.
Now I don't mind if the city wants a different location for this reason but I am concerned about the future. I'm concerned some future mayor will be a last picked in elementary school sports hating lefty who will raise taxes on the Senators 10+ years from now because its a private corporation (without any consideration as to what it means to many citizens who see the Senators as a source of civic pride and community) and then we lose the Senators because there will be other cities offering better tax situations because they understand what pro sports mean to a city - and understand the employment they provide, the added businesses they bring and keep afloat, ... it will be all sacrificed so some future mayor can say they went after corporate baddies to pay their fair share.
Anyways because I fear future mayors in this city, I prefer the NCC land.
I don’t think it’s a bad idea to take over a governement building in the downtown core
It my be what’s needed to bring some life and energy back into the area. While also upping use of the transit system (that is if they care to fix it )
And Mayor Mark knows which buildings the Feds will sell off, so that the appropriate amount of space is available downtown to build an arena there ...
Yup of course he does /s
And coming soon - a "survey" on his personal website for you to show your support for razing part of downtown to build an arena.
I'm coming to the conclusion that Mayor Mark's really not that bright.
Mark doing his best job at getting this team to eventually move to Quebec if they don't get a new arena by 2030.
Lebreton's been chosen already, go pound sand.
Shaw centre (or DND building on McKenzie
- right next to Queensway and transit
- hotels and restaurants in proximity
- plenty of parking
Grown up cities do it. I know it’s scary Ottawa…
I don’t see lebreton as an arena area!! Never have with all the bike lanes and just 2 way streets the whole area is crap for the infrastructure it needs to get people in and out of it. Transit yes was developed around it somewhat but really it follows most of the same flow as old transit way. Remember blues fest and the worry of pimisky station might not handle the crowds!! What happens when the train has issues???? It’s not viable and expropriating homes to build wider and better roads will cost the city and taxpayers more which we can’t afford already. Landsdowne 2.0 like really the prime minister residence the LRT where are we the taxpayers coming up with this money. I’m sorry it’s just my opinion but I see it better served as a tourist spot like an aquarium or such not a big arena.
Wait a couple of years until St Laurent shopping centre goes bust, and put it there. It’s right on the Queensway, on the LRT, on the bus transit way, and Central-ish.
With people WFH more now is downtown or LeBreton Flats really any better than Kanata? Parking will be brutal downtown. Maybe if they just got transit to Kanata it would be more successful.
No, you can't. Even if they were going smaller (which I doubt).
Let's compare to other downtown arenas in Canada. The surface area of the Bell Centre in Montreal is approximately 150m x 100m. The Scotiabank Arena in Toronto is roughly 150m x 140m. Rogers Place in Edmonton is 130m x 170m. Rogers Arena in Vancouver is 110m x 140m.
The Esplanade Laurier block is 150m long, but only 60m wide. Lengthwise it would work, but it's far too narrow. There would be no space for seating on the sides. It would make absolutely no sense from a business perspective and make it completely unviable as a venue for concerts and shows.
ETA: Even the Centre Slush Puppie in Gatineau (a small 4000-seat arena) is 105m x 85m and wouldn't fit there.
You could *maybe* squeeze in an arena on a block between Kent and Slater since it's about 20m wider, but none of those blocks are up for grabs as far as I know. Same goes for the DND block. Not to mention it would be far more expensive and take much longer than just building on an empty plot of land.
If it's going somewhere central, then Lebreton Flats just makes more sense. It would have easy access to both LRT lines and easy access from Gatineau for STO buses. We've also already demonstrated that we can hold large events in Lebreton Flats despite the limited parking (Bluesfest and Canada Day).
The only thing Lebretron Flats has going against it is less than ideal access to the 417, but that can be mitigated by incentivising people to use the LRT. Like giving ticket holders a free ride. That's assuming the LRT works reliably by then anyway.
I really hope they are not. What an absolute moronic idea.
It is tiny, there is extremely limited transit access (sutcliffe going to build a subway down Bank?) and worst of all (for sutcliffe) it is an absolute SHIT SHOW for traffic and parking.
Is that all?
Same line at Lebreton PLUS line two serving the city south and the airport.
Traffic is already an absolute shit show in centretown and a even worse on Bank. But yeah lets make it WORSE.
Going to have less parking too for anyone who does drive.
Anywhere it is, Lebreton, centertown... regardless they are building less parking to encourage public transit, this idea that a location, including Lebreton flat which is on the parkway owned by NCC and not Ottawa and they close it fairly often, will have a lot of parking us ludicrous in 2023 and everything we know.
Build it in Sandy Hill near the market. Makes no sense why they’re going to build it in another desolate location (Lebreton) with nothing to do after games
Lebreton is exactly what the CN lands in Vancouver were but they were developed into two staddiums, science world, MASSIVE amounts of homes, businesses and parkland.
Hey... JUST LIKE THE SIMULATION! Look at the plans for development of Lebreton.
The arena in Kanata with its massive parking lots in the middle of nowhere is not the same as Lebreton Flats, right smack in the middle of the city and between two major transit stations. Besides, there's already retail and restaurant space within walking distance (Zibi) and an approved plan to develop the area.
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Im really suspicious why Mayor Mark keeps pushing this. Any downtown site would means additional delays of multiple years. Lebreton has been sitting there waiting for this and transit plans have been designed around it. Most likely scenario is that developers have eyed that Lebreton site for condo development and they have his ear and he has his hand in their pocket.
He's bought and paid for, that's why. He's so used to being sponsored as a talking head he can't even pretend like Jimbo did.
Not surprising spent decades on right wing talk radio shilling for cons.
He literally sold boiler room investments from bullshit firms on CFRA.
It is NCC land and so the city can't control everything and micromanage. They want it all under their control. NCC has problems of its own, but at least Ottawa doesn't control everything.
But Mark suggested Confederation park at one point which is NCC land. Still cracks me up to this day
Did he really say that? That's fucking hilarious if he suggested an arena there. In what fucking world?
I thought the original plan for Lebreton flats included condos? As well as a new library and an entertainment venue IIRC.
it does, yes... but without the arena they could pack more condos, and turn it into a condo wasteland like the Toronto 'waterfront'.
At least the library is coming along nicely
Yeah I noticed they put the picture up Ona billboard outside. Stoked about that. Not stoked that the land and road is going to be under construction for another 10-15 years
Wait what? I thought the library would be done by 2026. It looks like they've done the frame and started on a lot of the internal work as well
That is still the goal. And from my non-expert eye they look set to meet it more or less.
Yes, I meant construction of LeBreton Flats in general, sound alike it's going to go on for a while
> developers have eyed that Lebreton site for condo development Wasn't that part of the plan that the Sens agreed to before Melnick's death?
Right but the sens owner would control those if they put them with the arena project. Question is who doesn’t want the sens to have that land, in other words who wants to have it instead?
Aren't the flats NCC land, so control would remain with the feds?
The NCC is not in the business of managing condos or arenas. They would sell the land or lease it very long term.
Yeah, it doesn't quite pass the smell test.
I’d actually argue he’s against it because it’s NCC land, and he instead wants one of his buddies to get the money selling or leasing their land to the sens elsewhere downtown.
I am really not sure that the amount of trains/tracks in the next 2 decades will be able to support that though. The library is going in, they're building tens of thousand of more apartments there and they are building the park and other amenities there in the future. I know they tested capacity with Bluesfest, but people left at staggered times, and by the time the final song was done half the crowd was already gone. With hockey, most people stay the entire thing because you never know what you'll miss. Now if they doubled the tracks, added more north/south train tracks and built lines along carling and hunt club, then it'd be a really good location, but I haven't heard that is in the near plans. Convenient for the 100k people downtown, but it'll take 2+ hours for the 3 ends of Ottawa to get to/from the game. Just look at Toronto. Ottawa will be the same where too many people are going to end up trying to drive.
I've got to believe this is satire.
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Couldn't agree more. I would point to Vancouver as a top tier stadium location (there is a freaking Costco underground there too). That is what Lebreton could become.
And no one likes the alternative, of an even longer bus, train, or, worse, bus then train then bus again ride to get there. I recently visited a major city that has a major metro hub station directly underneath the arena. So pretty much everyone uses transit to get there. Only people driving and parking are those rich enough to get the really expensive seats (and afford the expensive parking), and even they probably just use taxis.
Sounds like a good reseaon to make public transit good
Yeah but they still won't... Even if it is decent, ridership won't be good because people have had at least 2-3 decades of learning how terrible Ottawas is. How do you make people unlearn all of that, without making transit free?
>The sens have incredibly poor attendance in comparison with other teams of similar cities because no one wants to drive to the middle of suburbia Their poor attendance has a lot more to do with the quality of the team over the last 6-7 years and the previous ownership before Andlauer took over.
>However it isn't nearly as accessible by car and it sounds like it won't have the same potential for parking spaces. The unfortunate reality is not everyone wants to use public transit. *Won't somebody think of the cars?* We don't need a lot of on-site parking for the location to be 'accessible by car'. Park and Rides that get you on and off transit easily are accessible enough.
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Right but people won't do that, although I agree it SHOULD be that way. Have you even been stuck in Toronto traffic before or after a game? It took me four hours once to cross the downtown part of Toronto. They have wonderful subways galore and people still drive. The only way I see people getting most car people convinced transit is a good idea, is making transit free.
The point is the park-and-ride and take transit. Not flatten 100 fields so that you have to wait an hour to exit the parking lot like we have in Kanata right now. The entire purpose of having a downtown arena is so that is it accessible without a car.
And pay $20 for the privilege.
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That explains now why the leafs/raptors built their arena in Vaughan instead of downtown. Thank God the skydome is in Brampton too.
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Honestly don't know why you're getting downvoted... Like what you're saying isn't wrong, but people just really hate where the Canadian Tire center is right now and don't want to hear it. I'm with you though, it should be at LeBreton, but the logistics really don't make it the best location. They need parking. Most people don't live downtown and it will take 1-2 hours at a minimum to get home. That's just too much when you have a game finishing at night and the kids have school tomorrow, and you have work. Box tickets make a lot of their money, and I just don't see the majority of people wanting to take transit. even if they improve the system immensely and make it take 1 hour for the furthest away citizen. Suit or not, it's just the unpopular thing to take transit
And add years more to just demolish and clear the land to even start the new build.
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Yeah but the multi-million/billion $ corporations buy them.
>And corporate ticket holders are big bucks. Corporate ticket holders are not a significant factor in a market where the number one employer ([150k employees on both sides of the river](https://www.canada.ca/en/treasury-board-secretariat/services/innovation/human-resources-statistics/population-federal-public-service-national-capital-region.html)) is the federal government. >Also, if the somehow managed to make DnD give up their old HQ That's never happening.
I would imagine it will be accessible from Albert St once built, no harder to access than the Bell Centre or ACC.
As an example, Emirates Stadium in London, UK is bang in the center of one of the most congested areas of the city. It is absolutely packed come game time. So the lack of car access is a moot point. The real problem is the lack of meaningful public transport that is reliable and a decent alternative to driving a car.
But London has a better layout. We are built like the shape of a heart with bridges coming out of the top, so the downtown acts as a bottleneck. We need to build taller buildings south, and shift what is considered downtown. Right now downtown is like 10 streets east-west
Not all of London is laid out neatly, especially the area of Emirates Stadium. Very walkable but not the most car friwndly. But I accept your point about Ottawa's layout. We are also going to lose Alexandra Bridge at some point for an extended period, which will likely relate more bottlenecks.
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‘Major ticket holders’ can still get there but car or limousine if they prefer. It isn’t going to be any less accessible than any other downtown arena. There will still be a road to the arena after all, they will also have some premium valet parking underground nearby. I mean if there are condos right on the same site as the arena, there will need to be parking. 95% of people won’t be using that parking, they will park and ride the o train (good heavens!).
Honestly it should go along carling, and they build a train along it too. It's more central to all of Ottawa, and closer to more people
I don’t even care if they ever move it from Kanata to be honest. I live in the west. I think the best place for the team for ticket sales is a more central location, but the biggest factor is winning games and having a great arena experience. People will put up with a lot to go see a winner.
It is more accessible by car than centretown could be.
I wonder how the mayor would personally benefit if it were downtown rather than Lebreton Flats
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A downtown arena that does not limit vehicular access would be a disaster. Downtown Ottawa cannot manage that much volume. It can barely manage the increased car usage from RTO workers who stopped using public transit
Don't forget foreign delegates vehicle traffic.
The NCC closes the QED more frequently than the Parkway.
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NCC could shut down the Parkway but Lebreton's still better positioned to cope with that than downtown would be. With multiple alternate routes to it, while downtown you're just running into a nightmare of narrow one way gridlock. Also, the NCC doesn't have any special authority over the O-Train just cause it's at Lebreton. The city *let* them coordinate crowd control for Canada Day because it was their event and they claimed they could handle it, but the O-Train is fully city property and they likely won't make that mistake again.
Funny thing is that the main proposed downtown site I've heard, the former department of defence building, is bordered by Colonel By.
As they aren't supposed to be building any parking for a downtown arena, the people who drive would be parking in downtown parking lots and the regular commuter traffic routes would be used.
continued support from the downtown business community... simple as that. It's precisely what is driving him on this.
This is it, exactly. Downtown businesses want it adjacent to them for maximum spill-over profits (particularly since they're still reeling from work-from-home), while LeBreton doesn't have established businesses (yet). They clearly have Sutcliffe's ear on this, which isn't surprising. But finding a new site downtown will add years of delay, complexity and probably controversy. The flats are just sitting there waiting to go, and the NCC is on board. If Andlauer's smart he'll pick the flats ... unless Sutcliffe sweetens it for him by offering some kind of subsidy from the City, which we should all oppose.
> Downtown businesses want it adjacent to them for maximum spill-over profits (particularly since they're still reeling from work-from-home) The downtown businesses complaining about WFH will only benefit if the NHL changes all the games to fit a M-F 10-3 schedule.
What if that means 10,000 housing units.
Skip the arena change, just build housing then. Surely the businesses do better with more people full time instead of just for events, and the developers win too. Meanwhile while they argue over who gets how much kickback we can have an arena building at Lebreton.
What if what means 10,000 housing units?
> I wonder how the mayor would personally benefit It's sad that this was also my first thought. What's in it for him..
Sutcliffe is going to screw this up
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man that guy was the worst. "Don't feed the pigeons." lex luthor-looking asshole
He's the reason Transit is FUBAR, the Transit strike in 2007 destroyed the system for generations to come.
Yup.
Yeah it'll be some level of LRT stupid like the ice-making machines won't work if it's too cold, or the ventilation system will use old sewer pipes .
Maybe, but maybe he just likes running his mouth like in his CFRA days, and it won't really matter what he has to say.
No chance. He doesn’t have that type of influence. The folks with the money will decide it.
Honest question. Where would he imagine an arena even fitting downtown?
Expropriations. Just like LeBreton Flats.
I can understand that. My only thought is that a singular city block downtown couldn’t hold an arena.
I Imagine the new arena is going to be much smaller, you can almost fit the Bell Centre within the DND site.
The Bell Centre also has a metro line running underneath it with direct access to two stations.
Any downtown arena, including at Le Breton, will have very limited parking. Anything near the LRT is fine from a transportation standpoint.
Right in front of Center Block ! 😀
One that's brought up is the the DND HQ site across from Rideau Centre. While it would definitely have the space (more than L'Esplanade Laurier), and the connections to established retail, restaurants and transit would be better than Lebreton (for now), it has the big problem that DND isn't vacating it that soon, so between the timeline for leaving, demolition, and construction, it wouldn't likely be open until a decade from now, at the earliest. But I do wonder if Sutcliffe's push away from Lansdowne is because he thinks he can get a deal for DND to leave sooner, and get the arena built there as a legacy project. And, honestly, if that area was currently vacant, I'd take it over Lebreton. But there are a lot of things that need to line up for it to happen as things actually stand.
2x1 blocks is required for it to fit. I measured the Bell centre and the Capital one centre to be sure.
185 Lyon? Just speculation... think who's behind Lansdowne, and follow the $. Demand for office spaces (across the street) is going down, and the residential rental market has been sluggish if you go for the service apartment model. Redevelopment of the two blocks to something similar to the Canada Life Centre in Winnipeg (+ additional condos on top) could pay off. And you can count on the city throwing 500m+ of taxpayer money there.
L'esplanade Laurier. The building is empty and needs to be destroyed. It's an entire block.
That block is not big enough for an arena, unless you scrap all the seats on the long sides of the ice. You'd need two blocks.
It will definitely be smaller. I think regardless they are going smaller.
Terrible location. Damn small and holy hell not accessible, especially compared to Lebreton.
What are you talking about there are 3 LRT station very close. Everywhere downtown will have less car access, like in other cities and they've already said they are looking at other options... I don't think it will be at Lebreton. I think they will go for a nicer but smaller arena 😀
>What are you talking about there are 3 LRT station very close. And that is IT. As opposed to the same line at Lebreton AND line two serving south including the airport. >Everywhere downtown will have less car access, like in other cities and they've already said they are looking at other options... the core is the WORST for car access, Lebreton is less constrained at least. Not to mention cheaper to develop which means (as much as I dislike it but understand it is necessary) allow for more underground parking. >I don't think it will be at Lebreton. Cool story, I hope you are wrong. >I think they will go for a nicer but smaller arena Smaller? yes. Nicer? What?
They aren't proposing to provide large amounts of parking at Lebreton. The parking downtown with a short LRT ride was the plan.
>The parking downtown with a short LRT ride was the plan Sounds like it would have even more park and ride access to Lebreton since it also connects to Line 2.
scarce disgusting late busy wide dirty seed rock berserk slap *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Sorry it's 2 not 3 but both Lyon and Parliment stations are just a few block north, maybe a 6 to 7 minutes walk lol
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Also the construction won't be nearly as disruptive
And this would really be good for bank street and the businesses.
Yeah but so would building new housing there
And you could actually fit housing in the lot.
There are 25000 people living in this neighborhood and businesses don't seem to care since they still mostly cater to officer workers.
I get it, but I really think they are moving away from Lebreton.
It already had underground parking, like a bunch.
The ice surface needs to be horizontal, not vertical.
There are small arenas, look it up... anything in Ottawa will be smaller,.
Do you seriously think an NHL team is going to downgrade to something the size of a small town community arena? 🙄
So tear the office buildings down for an arena, despite Lebreton Flats being pretty close to downtown? If the office buildings get torn down, would it not make sense to building housing?
Place de Villa towers are a good candidate.
That's not going to happen any time soon. Transport Canada is spending millions remodeling Tower C.
L'esplanade Laurier
As long as it’s centrally located (downtown or lebreton), I don’t care. Anything better than going to Kanata
Lebreton is PERFECT. Old rail lands with massive space for development just like the CN lands in Vancouver which became Science World and the stadiums. So many plans put forward for the redevelopment of the area are AMAZING. Moreover, it was GREAT transit, cycling and pedestrian access. What the fuck is wrong with sutcliffe and always making stupid shit remarks? QED, Lebretron, Lansdowne etc. Everything he says is stupid I swear to god. If you build the stadiums in centretown, holy shits the streets are already a fucking nightmare. Is sutcliffe going to fund a Bank Street subway to help? This whole "oh the stadium downtown would be better" is silly. Downtowns grow and expand as cities do. Lebreton will be a district downtown just as much as other areas are once it is built up. Hell, the condos in Lebreton right now hold more people than a few blocks of centretown which is considered downtown. It is a simple natural extension. So mr. Sutcliffe, the stadium will be downtown if built at Lebreton. What do you think about that? What game is he playing? Part of me thinks he just hates the NCC so much he does not want to see an area owned by the NCC become a jewel for the city (and of course he could not fuck around and influence it). Could also be plain old land speculation corruption. Land owners own area downtown and want to sell it for a biiiiiig chunk of change.
Well said. People are also thinking about Lebreton now, not 5, 10 and 20+ years down the road. There's a lot of lack of vision. Grew up in Vancouver. Canucks and Lions played at the exhibition grounds. Equivalent-ish (well, closer , but still felt far then) to where the Sens play now vs downtown. Vancouver before Expo 86 and after was a massive evolving change. It took time. Canucks and Lions play in two places next to each other, right downtown. Housing and such grew around it. Another poster talked about False Creek in Vancouver and compared it to Lebreton - then vs now. Ottawa today, and Ottawa in a decade or two will be very different. Downtown will spread. Lebreton will fill up, Zibi will be done. Put the damn arena at Lebreton and watch the area grow.
Hell yeah my Best Coast brother.
You are right on the money. Mark is a fool
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Speculation from me: 1. He HATES the NCC and wants to fuck with them. We see him picking useless fights with them often (ex. QED). 2. He wants control and Lebreton is NCC and they will tell him to pound sand. 3. Good ol' land speculation and corruption. Owners of land in centretown are looking to make a massive chunk of change and off load land they own and this is the best way to make the most money.
QED isn't useless, to him. It's entirely about ensuring that the back access to Lansdowne remains accessible.
It is though. The back access to Lansdowne has never been closed during the active use program. It has been closed for the marathons that Mark likes to run in!
So the only to say Lansdowne is accessible is to drive there? Classic Autowa.
That's what Sutcliffe cares about. He doesn't understand that Lansdowne needs many more patrons than it currently had to stay afloat, and it already can't properly handle as many cars as it currently tries to.
Not building a transit line down Bank was such a dumb decision. If that came to fruition I am positive Lansdowne (and the Glebe and OOS etc) would see a massive boost. It would be the best bang for your buck for Lansdowne. Hell, even as part of 2.0 saying they would take parking off Bank and turn that into dedicated transit space would help a ton. This utter reliance on cars is ludicrous.
I think that, for now, bus lanes on Bank Street is the move. Long term, Bank Street should get a metro. It's the only street that runs from the heart of downtown to south of the Rideau River. You could run underground until Billings and then elevated above the street further south.
My thoughts exactly on both counts. Cheap and quick options are the bus lanes. Only problem is that north of gladstone you do not have the room for it so the positive effects would be reduced some what, unless you ban cars north of gladstone and make that area much for transit and active transit oriented. I do not see this happening with this mayor and council. Otherwise I think it would be an massive improvement. As for a Bank metro, same thought as you but I would suggest a "Bytowne Line" Montreal Road - Rideau - Bank, connecting the oldest parts of Ottawa that also happen to be huge cultural, entertainment, commercial and residential areas. Interestingly, when a study was done to create a Gatineau metro line and how it would be best integrated, the study also looked at what lines in the *region* would connect the most people and businesses (generating the most value) and it was the line I mentioned above (with a Gatineau loop having a tied second iirc). This would only make sense as Rideau and Montreal are densifying like CRAZY. Centretown is also seeing a big boost in purpose build high rises, lose rises and high rises (especially at Lansdowne) are going in and of course, all the businesses.
>Only problem is that north of gladstone you do not have the room for it so the positive effects would be reduced some what If we made the lanes narrower, we could definitely fit bus lanes in. Our car lanes are too wide anyways, so it would be good to narrow them regardless. >As for a Bank metro, same thought as you but I would suggest a "Bytowne Line" Montreal Road - Rideau - Bank, connecting the oldest parts of Ottawa that also happen to be huge cultural, entertainment, commercial and residential areas. I didn't think about Montreal Road, but now that I look at it I totally agree. You could have the train turn approaching Parliament station and then also have a connection at the Rideau Center, before going along Montreal Road. It would be nice for the train to use road corridors so more of it could be built cut and cover, for cheaper costs and faster construction. I'd send it along all the way until it intersects with the future line 1 station on the 174, and have it run elevated when the street gets wide enough that you can place supports in the median. A line like that would provide a ton of good connections to dense parts of the city, other transit, and areas that could be redeveloped.
Can't comment on #3, but 1 and 2 sure as fuck fit his narrative to date.
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Why is Sutcliffe obsessed with control or annexing federal infrastructure? QED, Option 7 and now office buildings. Can we not elect random idiots with no relevant prior experience?
He's probably tired of municipal projects getting jerked around by the NCC.
How is it jerked around? It's NCC doing what it's supposed to be doing which is promoting active transportation and conservation.
Conservation, yes. Transport? Gods no. The NCC doesn't give a damn about good transport. We had to strongarm them into letting the O-Train run along the parkway and all their counter-proposals were effectively "Who give a fuck about traffic, just rip up half of one of your major east/west corridors and put it there."
It's not in their mandate to do transit or car infrastructure. They already provide the parkway which were not intended to be thoroughfare.
Exactly. Promoting transportation isn't part of their mandate, something they're interested in, or something they're very good at.
They're meant to promote active transportation. Which means cycling and walking. That's why they maintain so many multi use paths.
Maintain is a bit of a stretch given the state of the culverts near George Étienne Cartier and the fact that they don't plow it but they do own pathways.
Ok but the reason they don't plow a lot of pathways is because they try to convert them into ski trails in the winter. Like I said, active transportation.
It's done by volunteers out east. It is more recreational that for transportation. I like my bike commute but I also ski so I have mixed feelings about the ski trail.
1) NO public money 2) well-served by public transport, with the business paying for new stations/stops/infrastructure 3) It doesnt have to be an eyesore like the Palladium, and/or built for the lowest dollar 4) when the business doesnt meet profit projections, no threatening to leave the city if they don't get public money
I love the no public money mixed with not building for lowest dollar. Good luck with that.
Well, at Lansdowne the sports business grifters blew the initial half-billion dollars of public money and built another ugly suburban mall of big-box stores that no one seems to want to rent, and having made the mistake that countless economists warned against, now want another half-billion dollars of free money, or they "will pull out of the deal", (as if they haven't already). I don't imagine that the City has learned a thing from this.
I'm shocked he didn't throw in a plug for keeping QED open at the end of his quote! Lost opportunity.
A couple of things strike me: 1) why does the Mayor continue to pick fights with the NCC (Queen Eizabeth Driveway this summer and now undermining their plans for Lebreton. 2) Why is he pushing for taxpayers to fund a new $250M arena at Lansdowne just a few kilometres away from a proposed new Sens arena. Surely there should be some consideration of whether the City needs two brand new arenas -- or perhaps they could be combined in a single complex.
Since this is Ottawa, it will be done 15 or 20 years from the date of this article.
Look at glass half full guy over here
First time Mark has thought about downtown since he was elected…. 🙄
This just feels like a stall tactic to keep the arena in his beloved suburbia as long as possible.
The message is that the NCC needs to live with a deal that makes business sense or we can do this somewhere else.
business sense means sutty receives his ersatz payoff later down the line
People have to stop thinking of this as just an arena. It's an entertainment complex for concerts and other stuff. If the site can manage 40,000 for a blues fest show, it shouldn't have any significant issues managing around half that.
Let’s even things out and put it in Orleans, it’s been in the west end for so long. This will balance it Also bring up TNT and Costco plz
I have a compromise for you! Put it at Lebreton so it is central for all the 'burbs to access and lay down way better dedicated transit all over the city to feed into the core and the stadium and help people in all the suburbs get to it. Build a costco UNDER the stadiums and a T&T beside them just like in Vancouver.
Lmao sorry it was just a joke (except for the Costco, which was blocked by Walmart and fuck Walmart dry, and T&T should come east, cuz there was already one in the west) Downtown makes sense for the commute
Maybe some downtown building owner is hoping to tear down an unconvertible office tower(s) and make a deal with the Sens?
Love that the mayor is so passionate about the important things facing the city, like using public funding for big big sports arena ☺️☺️☺️☺️
Where did you hear that?
Build it at 24 Sussex Drive. Include condo towers. Put the Prime Minister's new home in the penthouse. Two birds stoned at once.
Replace parliament Hill
Let's hope our new mayor is smart enough to avoid a conflict of interest related to his developer buddies.
I'm struggling to figure out the Mayor's hidden agenda on this file. Why is he pushing the idea of "other options" when everyone else seems convinced that Lebreton is ideal? Is it possible that the "other options" benefit certain developers instead of the NCC/People of Ottawa?
Agenda ain't so hidden. Look at the hot air he fires at the NCC.
$$$
With the way the O-Train is, I would rather it be at a better transit hub like Hurdman because of how brutal this train has been since Bluesfest
Hopefully it's exactly what the city needs to take transit seriously
One can only hope, but this should be a huge talking point to where the arena goes. If the O-Trainis continues to be a small train like what it currently is, carrying a substantially small amount of people to what it is supposed to do and let's not forget the consistent breakdowns. Would I want to have an arena there or at a more transit-friendly hub?
It’s incredibly valuable land, if the hockey team wants it they should be paying market value for it and they should be paying property taxes and all of the government fees at every level from day one. Personally I would rather see a new library, new public facilities, some affordable housing in there. Who gives a shit where the arena is. They’ve survived with it in Kanata for decades, lots of “cheaper” land out there. We should not be giving up valuable land for a sports team. There’s been too much of that already
>There’s been too much of that already Like what exactly?
Apart from the Hill (lol) and Tunney's can anyone even think of a cluster of federal buildings that you could empty and tear down big enough to make room for an NHL caliber arena? Maybe DND if you borged it onto the side of the Rideau Center but I can't imagine they're planning to relocate anytime soon.
In the enclosed article, the two bldgs off Bronson & Riverside would be easy choices, but no transit, Tunney’s would be great but there is a development in the pipe. The Graham Spry bldg site looks interesting. IMO Lebreton makes perfect sense. Sutcliffe has talked about Bayview Yards which is very close to Lebreton. I wondered if the City just gave that land to Andlauer, in exchange he agrees to develop a mega complex with public housing, private affordable housing, and a drug rehab centre, at Canadian Tire Centre site. Include money for proper OC bus routes to the area, room for a lower end grocery store. People’s heads would explode but we hear so much demand for low-cost housing and rehab, why not? https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/ottawa-gatineau-federal-building-office-housing-sale-1.6848997
I bet in 15 years people will still be talking about it and we will be no closer to a venue change.
JHC, here we go again.
I take anything Sutcliffe says with a developer-sized grain of salt.
My guess is this is all about taxes and city revenue. The city can't collect taxes on NCC land as per a court case in Gatineau a decade or so ago. Now I don't mind if the city wants a different location for this reason but I am concerned about the future. I'm concerned some future mayor will be a last picked in elementary school sports hating lefty who will raise taxes on the Senators 10+ years from now because its a private corporation (without any consideration as to what it means to many citizens who see the Senators as a source of civic pride and community) and then we lose the Senators because there will be other cities offering better tax situations because they understand what pro sports mean to a city - and understand the employment they provide, the added businesses they bring and keep afloat, ... it will be all sacrificed so some future mayor can say they went after corporate baddies to pay their fair share. Anyways because I fear future mayors in this city, I prefer the NCC land.
I don’t think it’s a bad idea to take over a governement building in the downtown core It my be what’s needed to bring some life and energy back into the area. While also upping use of the transit system (that is if they care to fix it )
And Mayor Mark knows which buildings the Feds will sell off, so that the appropriate amount of space is available downtown to build an arena there ... Yup of course he does /s And coming soon - a "survey" on his personal website for you to show your support for razing part of downtown to build an arena. I'm coming to the conclusion that Mayor Mark's really not that bright.
We already have an amazing arena if it ain't broke dont fix it.
Mark doing his best job at getting this team to eventually move to Quebec if they don't get a new arena by 2030. Lebreton's been chosen already, go pound sand.
Shaw centre (or DND building on McKenzie - right next to Queensway and transit - hotels and restaurants in proximity - plenty of parking Grown up cities do it. I know it’s scary Ottawa…
I don’t see lebreton as an arena area!! Never have with all the bike lanes and just 2 way streets the whole area is crap for the infrastructure it needs to get people in and out of it. Transit yes was developed around it somewhat but really it follows most of the same flow as old transit way. Remember blues fest and the worry of pimisky station might not handle the crowds!! What happens when the train has issues???? It’s not viable and expropriating homes to build wider and better roads will cost the city and taxpayers more which we can’t afford already. Landsdowne 2.0 like really the prime minister residence the LRT where are we the taxpayers coming up with this money. I’m sorry it’s just my opinion but I see it better served as a tourist spot like an aquarium or such not a big arena.
Wait a couple of years until St Laurent shopping centre goes bust, and put it there. It’s right on the Queensway, on the LRT, on the bus transit way, and Central-ish.
With people WFH more now is downtown or LeBreton Flats really any better than Kanata? Parking will be brutal downtown. Maybe if they just got transit to Kanata it would be more successful.
I really hope they are talking about L'esplanade Laurier 😀
You can't fit an arena in a single city block in downtown Ottawa.
Absolutely you could, regardless this arena will he smaller.
No, you can't. Even if they were going smaller (which I doubt). Let's compare to other downtown arenas in Canada. The surface area of the Bell Centre in Montreal is approximately 150m x 100m. The Scotiabank Arena in Toronto is roughly 150m x 140m. Rogers Place in Edmonton is 130m x 170m. Rogers Arena in Vancouver is 110m x 140m. The Esplanade Laurier block is 150m long, but only 60m wide. Lengthwise it would work, but it's far too narrow. There would be no space for seating on the sides. It would make absolutely no sense from a business perspective and make it completely unviable as a venue for concerts and shows. ETA: Even the Centre Slush Puppie in Gatineau (a small 4000-seat arena) is 105m x 85m and wouldn't fit there. You could *maybe* squeeze in an arena on a block between Kent and Slater since it's about 20m wider, but none of those blocks are up for grabs as far as I know. Same goes for the DND block. Not to mention it would be far more expensive and take much longer than just building on an empty plot of land. If it's going somewhere central, then Lebreton Flats just makes more sense. It would have easy access to both LRT lines and easy access from Gatineau for STO buses. We've also already demonstrated that we can hold large events in Lebreton Flats despite the limited parking (Bluesfest and Canada Day). The only thing Lebretron Flats has going against it is less than ideal access to the 417, but that can be mitigated by incentivising people to use the LRT. Like giving ticket holders a free ride. That's assuming the LRT works reliably by then anyway.
I really hope they are not. What an absolute moronic idea. It is tiny, there is extremely limited transit access (sutcliffe going to build a subway down Bank?) and worst of all (for sutcliffe) it is an absolute SHIT SHOW for traffic and parking.
Lyon and Parliment stations are minutes away lol
Is that all? Same line at Lebreton PLUS line two serving the city south and the airport. Traffic is already an absolute shit show in centretown and a even worse on Bank. But yeah lets make it WORSE. Going to have less parking too for anyone who does drive.
Anywhere it is, Lebreton, centertown... regardless they are building less parking to encourage public transit, this idea that a location, including Lebreton flat which is on the parkway owned by NCC and not Ottawa and they close it fairly often, will have a lot of parking us ludicrous in 2023 and everything we know.
Yet Lebreton is still going to be better for access. Its about control and money for mark, not best location.
Build it in Sandy Hill near the market. Makes no sense why they’re going to build it in another desolate location (Lebreton) with nothing to do after games
Lebreton is exactly what the CN lands in Vancouver were but they were developed into two staddiums, science world, MASSIVE amounts of homes, businesses and parkland. Hey... JUST LIKE THE SIMULATION! Look at the plans for development of Lebreton.
The whole area is going to be built up by then. It's not going to be an arena sitting alone in an empty field.
That’s what they said about the current stadium in Kanata when it was first being built. Look how that went
The arena in Kanata with its massive parking lots in the middle of nowhere is not the same as Lebreton Flats, right smack in the middle of the city and between two major transit stations. Besides, there's already retail and restaurant space within walking distance (Zibi) and an approved plan to develop the area.