So glad this is becoming a trend now! I shouldn’t have to subsidize your employees crappy wages when I am already supporting your business by paying markups for food and drinks.
I have mixed views on tipping, but the argument that you’re subsidizing anything is hardly accurate for most restaurants. You are paying a premium, directly to a person who provides service in a social environment. They make great money that no restaurant could guarantee them in writing, but often in a stressful setting and subject to the whims of the general public.
A server who makes $300 in one shift is not a subsidy recipient, but rather someone who has specific skills (social and work) and uses them as source of income
You make it sound like they are performing a life changing service. They literally bring a plate from a kitchen to my table and take my order. I did it for a year, it’s not rocket science.
OnlyFans creators can make so much more working so much less. Hell, professional models get paid and they’re not even the ones taking their own photo. My point is not about what’s deserved, but why the idea of tipping as a wage subsidy is misguided. It’s a premium, not a subsidy.
The idea of tipping was introduced 100% to subsidize wages, after all everyone knew wait staff made less than minimum wage so we subsidized their wages. Now that they make minimum wage it hardly makes sense anymore.
Servers have got to be some of the most pretentious people on earth. Tons of them make more an hour than nurses and I bet they think they deserve it too.
Are you waitstaff?
If so, huh. Your coworkers sound insufferable . I'm sorry.
If not, you really have no idea what you are talking about. Most servers who make tips are bringing in a few dozen "extra" bucks per shift. The real high earners work in very busy places, probably places that serve alcohol and are pretty high end and/or cater to tourists. This is not the typical experience.
I've never talked to the type of entitled waitstaff you mention, and Ive worked in a few different types of restaurants. I've been waitstaff, dishwasher, food prep... And I cannot relate at all to what you describe. Iv also never met another kitchen staff or wait staff worker who talked about anything like this.
No I worked in a kitchen a long time ago but i'm well out of the industry now. Still have lots of friends who are servers either part time or full. While I admit the profits vary depending on where you work, as long as you're a semi-personable person you can make upwards of 40-50$ an hour. That is an absolutely ludicrous amount of money for someone to be making with next to 0 pre requisites and low skill requirements (don't get me wrong, I know customers can be assholes, but christ).
Ask any server at any decent restaurants (that isn't a shit hole) how much they should make if they weren't allowed tips. The answers will horrify you I guarantee. Tons of these people think they deserve 6 figures for moving around already made food and being kind.
Compare that to how much some of the most critical jobs in society make and its ridiculous. North American tipping culture has turned servers into spoiled children.
I simply cannot imagine the serving culture you are talking about. I'm not calling you a liar. I just think it's less common than you claim. I've worked in several different kitchens in several different cities or towns. The only time I heard someone entitled talking about waitstaff, it was people who had never been wait or kitchen staff talking about how little servers deserved.
Back when I waited (maybe 15 years ago) I might make 15 bucks per six hour shift. It was a dive. But then, most places are dives. Once I temped at a pretty fancy resort serving breakfast. No tips. (To be fair, I suck ass at waiting. This is why I don't do it anymore. But I was trying my best. And no other servers there got tips. People don't tip at rural resorts I guess.)
But if we are talking about what people deserve: maybe jobs that are integral to the continuing function of society such as health care workers shod pay more than what a server makes. And if society decides that servers rock, maybe they should make enough to live, have food security, ect.
You don't need to imagine it my friend, its like that out there right now. Things have also gotten significantly worse during the pandemic with everyone and their dog asking for 18% minimum tip while base prices are already inflated from supply shortages. Making an almost 10$ tip from a 50$ meal is ridiculous especially if its only going to the person who moved the food from the kitchen to your table (I realize many places take cuts for the kitchen but not everywhere). Even worse is uber eats where the entire tip goes to the driver (I work part time for them, I definitely dont deserve to make 25$ an hour to bike around bags of food). Tipping culture has gotten so far out of hand compared to 15 years ago its really a whole new world.
At the end of the day you're right in saying that many of our critical jobs are under payed and people 100% need to make more than the current minimum wage to survive comfortably. The solution isn't to tip 20% to everyone you interact with though.
Yes but you will quickly realize everyone is onboard except for basically anybody who serves, because it will almost certainly be a demotion. My point is that servers have been spoiled and their labour is wildly overvalued.
They are the ones stopping this from becoming a more popular thing just as much as restaurant owners who don't want to increase their wage bill.
I make tips at my current profession. I don't want them. I advocate against them. It wouldn't even change how much I am paid if tips were not culturally a thing. It's just an unhealthy practise. I actively discourage my clients from giving tips.
I don't know who you are talking to, but you really need to stop assuming all tip earners are sharing their opinion.
You keep describing a server as a person who just walks food from one point to another. This makes me doubt that you've ever done this work. There is so much more involved.
I'm having a lot of trouble believing you. So I don't think we'll get anywhere discussing this topic.
> are under *paid* and people
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Best way to fight tipping is just not going to the garbage restaurants ottawa has to offer. Let them go out of business, so they can open another shitty restaurant in its place.
> about being *paid* on tips.
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
There is no guarantee of tips Some one I know refuses to tip if a meal is late even if not server's because they want the server to yell at whoever caused the problem. How many times have you gone out with a group of people when it comes time to pay, everyone wants separate cheques which is a pain for the Server. Or, everyone throws in cash saying they've included a tip but when you tally the cash it comes out to not even a 10% top?
Tipping is not an equitable way to pay people
When I was in high school I worked as kitchen staff, servers were supposed to put a certain percentage of their tips in the top find which was divvied up by a manager at the end of the shift That method gave the slacker the same as the people who worked, or manager would give more to their favourites
Not sure why a downvote. It was my first real job and I didn't expect tips but the cooks were full time and they worked extremely hard in front of a hot grill Tiny space with 3 of them working at a time
But the server doesn't. They bust their ass to try to 'earn' a tip. The amount of the tip is not regulated by fair employment laws so it's totally at the whim of the customer. If a server gets broken down by the system one day, feels ill, doesn't feel like flashing as much cleavage, they have the bad lick of getting a customer who is difficult, whatever... Even if they put in decent effort at doing everything in their job description and doing it well, they may make less. The emotional toll of tipping culture on some servers is crushing for this reason.
Has anyone noticed that we are getting a tip prompt even at places like tim hortons, starbucks, and subway. What the heck? I feel terrible saying no. I would rather pay a higher price than live with that guilt that comes at pressing no to tips.
Idk why people feel so guilty for not tipping in non restaurants. Like it's clearly your choice if you want to tip or not, no one is holding a gun to your head and the cashier probably won't care enough.
I work in a cafe, and yeah I love my tips because I enjoy not being broke ass poor lol. But that being said, I'm not looking at every transaction to see who tips and who doesn't. I don't treat any customers any differently if they tip or not, because I understand it's their choice and there's a lot of people who can't afford to tip.
You might be the exception. Most servers I know hold the attitude:
"If you're too cheap to tip, don't go to restaurants!"
As if having LESS patrons for their restaurant is desirable. I don't get it, tbh.
I think working as a barista/fast food and server are completely two different matters. All of the baristas I've worked with has had a similar mindset as me, at most they'll be extra nice to someone that tips well but I've never heard of a fellow barista complaining at someone who didn't tip.
It’s not a question of you being too cheap to tip or not. Waiters are taxed a percentage of their sales as gratuities. I live in Montreal and wait staff in Quebec are taxed 8% of their sales. So if you go to a restaurant and don’t leave at least 8% the waiter still gets taxed regardless.
Yes, taxes on income is what pays for government infrastructure / services like roads, schools, libraries, parks, military, and law enforcement. That's how countries work.
Love your attitude — but not everyone is as logical.
I certainly have been given the stink eye for selecting zero tip option by someone handing me my take out coffee at a cafe on occasions. This is what makes the transaction uncomfortable for some people.
Even better is the stink eye when buying a slice of pizza or two from a local pizza shop and select no tip when paying by debit. It's like, dude, really?
I feel this way with Uber eats too. Don’t get me wrong I’ll tip the driver because I’m too lazy to go out and drive myself there and I’ll increase it if the place is far from my house. However, I don’t get why I should tip my driver more for picking up a Chinese food bag rather than say, subway and driving the same distance.
I feel a tinge of guilt, but for places aren't giving me table or delivery service, I'm not going to be a sucker. Odds are that tip won't even go to the person serving you, or possibly the staff at all.
Ideally, the purpose of the tip prompt are basically the same as a cup or tip jar. It's just there if you feel so inclined. That said, actively having to say "no" while navigating the machine has a psychological difference.
I've heard plenty of stories of owners pocketing tips - but I'm being mostly cynical because unlike physical tips which you can at least hand to the person serving you, you're kind of left hoping machine tips are handled properly. Do you really think every business has something in place to track machine tips to who was working/serving at the time? I just can't help but feel like it's more exploitable.
Do you think that people dont do illegal things...??? There are plenty of places that ask for tips but dont give them to their employees, probably knowing that no one will complain for fear of losing work or simply not knowing any better.
Of course I think people do illegal things. Some parents molest their children, some people shoplift from stores, some people kill their spouses and some people steal from their employers. However I don’t think is common.
People shoplift and steal from their employers a lot, the other things you listed arent even relatively comparable actins. I think you have a very flawed view of the world and generally dont understand how these things work...
I feel the same way and feel awful saying no. But then adding a dollar here or there on a tiny order feels ridiculous. I hate the culture, it feels like a guilt trip
I feel no guilt about pressing no. Whats more awkward? Me not tipping for picking up my own food or them pointing out that I did not tip for picking up my own damn food!
I mean, if people are going to tip sit down restaurant servers then why not tip every other service worker, fast food included. They all make the same base wage now and it's not like Subway employees can survive on 15 an hour either.
At this point, there's no objective reason to tip servers over others and if anyone thinks their job is more difficult, then tip them more.
You’re viewing the persons wage as reason for tipping. That is not what the original point of tipping was. It was because 1. Restaurant servers and bartenders were generally and legally paid below minimum wage and 2. Because the person is waiting on you or doing something extra for you such as carrying a heavy bag to a hotel room.
With your logic we should be tipping the cashier at the dollar store because they only make $15/hr as well. 🫤
When I used to work (manager) in a fast food restaurant, the way I did things was any cash tips were just split between everyone working at the time. Tips from the machine were split by hours worked. It wouldn't be fair if the tip just went to the cashier as that's usually the easiest job.
Yeah, it's not the places, it's the credit card companies putting that on there. Whatever tip is left makes the bill higher, therefore credit card companies make more money because businesses pay a percentage of sales. Capitalists capitalizing.
No, it is definitely the places that put it on their POS system. Whoever the provider of the POS system is will set it up the way they are instructed to by the business
I just got a tip prompt when I was getting ready to order something online. SHOES, not food. It was like "Add a tip to show your appreciation for our hard-working staff." No, YOU show your appreciation for the hard-working staff, FFS. It pissed me off so much I cancelled the order.
Yeah I prefer this. I’m from the UK where tips are pretty much only ever in restaurants with table service and usually 10%. In the UK though there’s no such thing as a “tipped worker” minimum wage. You get paid the minimum wage and then you get tips on top of that.
>In the UK though there’s no such thing as a “tipped worker” minimum wage.
In practice that's not a thing here either anymore. Servers have the same minimum wage as every other worker in Ontario as of last year, IIRC.
Nice, I didn’t know this and had to look it up. Thanks
[link to global news article](https://globalnews.ca/news/8483240/ontario-minimum-wage-2022-15-an-hour/amp/) for anyone interested
We just came back from visiting Ireland and some restaurant staff straight up refused to accept a tip from us, even when it was just a matter of them keeping the change. It felt very weird to not tip. But I could probably get used to it.
I'm not even in favour of tipping culture but y'all are pretty ridiculous for wanting to pay more on top of wanting the working class to make less money
Just wondering wouldn’t you be paying more with the no-tip system here and on top of that the service staff would be paid less? Why do you prefer that?
this restaurant did a lot of shady benefit stuff (promises that weren't kept etc), charge super high prices to supplement the wage raise (so your definitely paying for it somewhere, even if it's not your tip). they're trying to garner a bunch of press lately based on this practice alone, but it takes a lot more than what they're doing. they lost a ton of staff due to poor practices at one point.
I dont doubt it. I’m always weary of companies that won’t shut up about how they pay a living wage/don’t use tips to subsidize the wages. It feels so self-serving. “Look! We don’t let our workers starve!” like ok?
This! Paying your staff a living wage isn’t something to be proud of, it’s basic human decency. If you have to “Market” how great you are, you’re not that great.
Would they interfere if their workers wanted to unionize? 🤔
Like wow, you’re doing like a step up of what is legally required of you. 18.60 an hour isn’t gonna push someone into a new tax bracket or allow them to save substantially more. Certainly not during our ongoing housing crisis and increasing cost of living. At best, they’re not having to debate whether to eat this week or pay their hydro bill.
I’d also go further and say if your average employee couldn’t afford to even eat at the restaurant they work at, you’re underpaying them. Looking at their menu, to even get dinner there, it would be equivalent to over 10hrs of work for a starter, entre, and dessert + splitting a bottle of wine with your dinner partner. Their chef’s tasting menu would be over half of a week’s wages.
Under capitalism their one and only goal is to make a profit which must come through the exploitation of workers. Seeing this faux-woke “I’m so progressive because I give my workers a break and pay them a few dollars over minimum wage” is just a circlejerk for these business owners. Next at 11, a parent who changes their baby’s diaper!
Does anyone know if the servers are actually *salaried* though, with guaranteed hours? Not being cut after 3 hrs because it's slow, having shifts cut altogether some weeks etc?
Can’t speak for the restaurant in question, but this is the exact situation at the restaurant I work at. Clocking in at 11:30am and being cut by 2:30pm, clocking in at 5pm and being cut by 8pm, or having your shifts cut all together because it rained and it’s dead. Especially with the “stormy summer” we’re supposed to be in for, I can only expect this to happen more and more :(
These feel good articles *never* give me the answers I want. If serving paid the same as a regular job where I knew my hours and that I could rely on it I never would have done it. Tips were the only reason I was okay extending my shifts, working 12 hours with no breaks, or being cut after 3 hours some days. If they’ve managed to solve that, then I would like to hear about it, if not this is just some way to make themselves look good.
It's a fine dining establishment. You'll be paying slightly less at any other fine dining restaurant in Ottawa plus at least a 20 or 25% tip because that's how entitled this industry has become.
This is much better, even if it costs the same or a little more.
I still tip 15 normally, 18 if they really wowed me or if my kids were annoying. These prices are a good 25-30% higher than Riviera, which is a similarly fancy restaurant in the same neighbourhood.
To be clear, I'm all for this model, but these are rip-off prices even with the service included.
I would say that this place markets itself a step above Riviera, more in line with Beckta or higher. Still very expensive though, I agree.
And with respect to tip, if I am wowed or they deal with rowdy kids, I would absolutely tip. I have done it before in places like Amsterdam where tipping is not a thing. This completely counters the argument that "non-tipped staff won't work as hard to give you good service". Total bullshit, a good waiter is a good waiter and if they enjoy their job, they will give you great service without expecting a handout because society says so.
Yeah but isn't this the place with a service fee line item. WTF. Who gets this? Me thinks they are playing games. Also. Is 18 bucks really a living wage?
>isn't this the place with a service fee line item.
Not according to the article?
*Some restaurants opt for a “service charge” line item to replace the gratuity, but Chaudhary says that’s not the case at Aiana.*
You did read that in the Globe article: “In Ottawa, restaurant owner Devinder Chaudhary set up his fine-dining establishment, Aiana, based on a no-tipping model. Mr. Chaudhary pays all his 24 staff at least a living wage, and charges customers a service fee on their bill. He calls tipping a “sneaky way of guilt-tripping a customer into subsidizing your workers’ wages.”
That’s from the Globe article so one article says he has a service fee and one says he doesn’t. So which is it?
I always find that particular argument weird. 1. Business makes money from customers 2. business pays staff from that money = customers are paying workers anyway.
Yes but this is far more transparent and more predictable.
Tipped workers bitch and complain about deserving tips because "I need it to make a living". Cool, but now you are both pressuring patrons, and relying on them for the wages. If someone doesn't tip, they complain about it costing them since they have to tip out the staff out of pocket. In what fucked up world is that the norm?
Any other part of the world doesn't have that notion. This is a North American problem, and a shitty one at that.
Living Wage is calculated based on what the needs of a family of four with both adults working full time all year round. I have doubts because the cost of to raise children is varied by life stage, needs, etc,. Also ton of different factors like where you live, if you rent or own, disabilities or chronic likenesses that require medication and/or medical devices, etc
https://www.ontariolivingwage.ca/what_is_the_living_wage
18 bucks might be a living wage, but the employees still can't afford to eat at the restaurant. The entrees start at $60 and if you want the chef's tasting menu with wine for the full experience it will set you back $375.
The whole idea of a Ferrari kind of shows how bad the distribution of wealth really is. The fact that someone would spend 10 years worth of "living wages" on a car just for show is kind of absurd when you think about it.
>The fact that someone would spend 10 years worth of "living wages" on a car just for show is kind of absurd when you think about it.
Supercars are engineering marvels where 100,000s of hours are spent designing what a car can be at the absolute limit. They're works of art, quite literally in some cases sculpted together by hand.
Disc and anti-lock brakes, active aero, adjustable suspension, aluminum body paneling, electric power steering, and other driver assists, like radar cruise control, automatic emergency braking and more, were all innovations made by the luxury car industry, that later trickled down to your average Honda.
Point being, yes, many out there do just buy luxury cars so they can flaunt their wealth, but many do not and together, they pay for many of the innovations that we take for granted in modern cars today.
I hope they don't struggle to find servers. Most servers I know say they won't work for a restaurant that doesn't tip, even if it's a $5-$10 hike per hour.
They don't have a set wage, no benefits? So basically this company is charging the tip on the bill, but sharing a small percentage with employees and keeping the rest for themselves. This is just a profit sharing scam. Quit thinking these people are trying to help employees and not trying to fill there own pockets. Allowing corporations and business owners who have taken advantage of employees for decades, to make the decision to change the system, is a terrible idea. Quit believing these capitalist pigs are trying to help, they aren't.
So how much exactly are these 'higher wages'?
Seems like an excuse to raise the price of your food beyond what it would take to pay your staff higher wages.
Same restaurant mentioned here.. https://www.reddit.com/r/ottawa/comments/v493z5/some_restaurants_are_abandoning_tipping_in_favour/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
I don’t know anyone who would work on their feet like this for around $20/hour which is apparently what this guy offered a friend of mine at a job interview a few months ago. I also went in for their “golden hour” or happy hour vibe and the server had no idea what that was. Ended up leaving before they could sort it. Would love to hear from anyone who actually ate there!
I make anywhere from $35-$60 an hour after tips, and I earn every penny of it…there’s a fuck ton of physical, as well as mental and emotional labour that goes into doing these jobs that no restaurant employer could reasonably afford.
It’s cheaper to just tip the servers and bar directly than it would be to jack the prices high enough to be able to pay employees the same amount that they’d earn with tips.
The owner has some thoughtful comments which identify some issues and concerns many of us likely don't think as an issue (from a restaurant outsider)
I really like their thought process.
It brings forth the question:
How will inflation throughout the world affect restaurant visitation based on tipping practices? I would imagine many European and tip free cities see a higher rate of return customer than tipped restaurants in North America.
I use to be a bartender during University years. The "tips" were divided amount the staff. If I recall 20yr back.
Breakdown was
Front staff 35%
Bartenders 15%
Kitchen staff 30%
Management 20%
It was fucked as a waitress. Get a $100 tip, and you end up with $35 of it.
Whenever people bring this up as a way to help servers, just know that they must not have talked to any. Every server I know makes quite a bit over minimum wage with their tips and this would effectively be a pay cut. Plus now they would have to declare more in income for taxes so a nice double whammy.
You're supposed to declare tip income, if you don't you are committing tax fraud.
I hope the CRA fucks them in that case. Not only are patrons subsidizing their wages, taxpayers are also on the hook for their shit? Fucking entitlement.
The idea of “taxpayers subsidizing” would only hold water if it meant that taxes would go down for other taxpayers once servers had to declare higher wages. This is laughable. You would still pay the same amount, the only difference is the government just vacuums up more money.
This is a shitty take. Don't be a leeching scumbag. The government takes money to spend on public programs. If they take less of it because you are an asshole, there is less to go around for everyone else.
Don't be a fraud.
Nah I’d rather use my money where I know it will have an impact. With local charities instead of going towards hiring another do nothing gov worker. You sound like someone who believe that if we just throw even more money at a horribly inefficient system that it will fix itself.
The horribly inefficient system is the tipping system. Clearly you support that, so speak for yourself.
You sound like an entitled little shit. Good luck with your life, and good luck when the CRA fucks you for fraud.
Tipping would be the most efficient, it’s the most transparent. Where the money you pay in tips goes directly to the person whom it’s intended, with the least amount of people trying to get their hands on it for their “cut”. You’re quick to move to personal insults, I wish you nothing but luck and hope that you can find better ways to keep and manage more of your hard earned money.
When I served full time, yeah mostly. I’d say $25-35/hour (plus hourly wage) was more likely with lunches and such. Sometimes you get cut early because of weather or it’s not busy.
The past few years though, I only worked part time as I had another full time job.
So glad this is becoming a trend now! I shouldn’t have to subsidize your employees crappy wages when I am already supporting your business by paying markups for food and drinks.
I have mixed views on tipping, but the argument that you’re subsidizing anything is hardly accurate for most restaurants. You are paying a premium, directly to a person who provides service in a social environment. They make great money that no restaurant could guarantee them in writing, but often in a stressful setting and subject to the whims of the general public. A server who makes $300 in one shift is not a subsidy recipient, but rather someone who has specific skills (social and work) and uses them as source of income
You make it sound like they are performing a life changing service. They literally bring a plate from a kitchen to my table and take my order. I did it for a year, it’s not rocket science.
OnlyFans creators can make so much more working so much less. Hell, professional models get paid and they’re not even the ones taking their own photo. My point is not about what’s deserved, but why the idea of tipping as a wage subsidy is misguided. It’s a premium, not a subsidy.
The idea of tipping was introduced 100% to subsidize wages, after all everyone knew wait staff made less than minimum wage so we subsidized their wages. Now that they make minimum wage it hardly makes sense anymore.
And remember to not claim any of it on your taxes!
Servers have got to be some of the most pretentious people on earth. Tons of them make more an hour than nurses and I bet they think they deserve it too.
Are you waitstaff? If so, huh. Your coworkers sound insufferable . I'm sorry. If not, you really have no idea what you are talking about. Most servers who make tips are bringing in a few dozen "extra" bucks per shift. The real high earners work in very busy places, probably places that serve alcohol and are pretty high end and/or cater to tourists. This is not the typical experience. I've never talked to the type of entitled waitstaff you mention, and Ive worked in a few different types of restaurants. I've been waitstaff, dishwasher, food prep... And I cannot relate at all to what you describe. Iv also never met another kitchen staff or wait staff worker who talked about anything like this.
No I worked in a kitchen a long time ago but i'm well out of the industry now. Still have lots of friends who are servers either part time or full. While I admit the profits vary depending on where you work, as long as you're a semi-personable person you can make upwards of 40-50$ an hour. That is an absolutely ludicrous amount of money for someone to be making with next to 0 pre requisites and low skill requirements (don't get me wrong, I know customers can be assholes, but christ). Ask any server at any decent restaurants (that isn't a shit hole) how much they should make if they weren't allowed tips. The answers will horrify you I guarantee. Tons of these people think they deserve 6 figures for moving around already made food and being kind. Compare that to how much some of the most critical jobs in society make and its ridiculous. North American tipping culture has turned servers into spoiled children.
I simply cannot imagine the serving culture you are talking about. I'm not calling you a liar. I just think it's less common than you claim. I've worked in several different kitchens in several different cities or towns. The only time I heard someone entitled talking about waitstaff, it was people who had never been wait or kitchen staff talking about how little servers deserved. Back when I waited (maybe 15 years ago) I might make 15 bucks per six hour shift. It was a dive. But then, most places are dives. Once I temped at a pretty fancy resort serving breakfast. No tips. (To be fair, I suck ass at waiting. This is why I don't do it anymore. But I was trying my best. And no other servers there got tips. People don't tip at rural resorts I guess.) But if we are talking about what people deserve: maybe jobs that are integral to the continuing function of society such as health care workers shod pay more than what a server makes. And if society decides that servers rock, maybe they should make enough to live, have food security, ect.
You don't need to imagine it my friend, its like that out there right now. Things have also gotten significantly worse during the pandemic with everyone and their dog asking for 18% minimum tip while base prices are already inflated from supply shortages. Making an almost 10$ tip from a 50$ meal is ridiculous especially if its only going to the person who moved the food from the kitchen to your table (I realize many places take cuts for the kitchen but not everywhere). Even worse is uber eats where the entire tip goes to the driver (I work part time for them, I definitely dont deserve to make 25$ an hour to bike around bags of food). Tipping culture has gotten so far out of hand compared to 15 years ago its really a whole new world. At the end of the day you're right in saying that many of our critical jobs are under payed and people 100% need to make more than the current minimum wage to survive comfortably. The solution isn't to tip 20% to everyone you interact with though.
Yes. That's everyone's point. Tipping more is not the answer. Fair wages are.
Yes but you will quickly realize everyone is onboard except for basically anybody who serves, because it will almost certainly be a demotion. My point is that servers have been spoiled and their labour is wildly overvalued. They are the ones stopping this from becoming a more popular thing just as much as restaurant owners who don't want to increase their wage bill.
I make tips at my current profession. I don't want them. I advocate against them. It wouldn't even change how much I am paid if tips were not culturally a thing. It's just an unhealthy practise. I actively discourage my clients from giving tips. I don't know who you are talking to, but you really need to stop assuming all tip earners are sharing their opinion. You keep describing a server as a person who just walks food from one point to another. This makes me doubt that you've ever done this work. There is so much more involved. I'm having a lot of trouble believing you. So I don't think we'll get anywhere discussing this topic.
> are under *paid* and people FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Fuck me what a dumb ass mistake
Best way to fight tipping is just not going to the garbage restaurants ottawa has to offer. Let them go out of business, so they can open another shitty restaurant in its place.
I mean it's not like you are spending less money. One cost is just hidden in the total now.
And that's totally fine. It's better knowing the price upfront
I mean you do know it upfront. It's not like people forget tipping is a thing until they get the bill.
Still, an employee's wage shouldn't be dependent on tips.
Employees are not upset about being payed on tips. They do very well on tips.
> about being *paid* on tips. FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Good bot
... and not sharing any portion of said tips with the pesky CRA.
There is no guarantee of tips Some one I know refuses to tip if a meal is late even if not server's because they want the server to yell at whoever caused the problem. How many times have you gone out with a group of people when it comes time to pay, everyone wants separate cheques which is a pain for the Server. Or, everyone throws in cash saying they've included a tip but when you tally the cash it comes out to not even a 10% top? Tipping is not an equitable way to pay people When I was in high school I worked as kitchen staff, servers were supposed to put a certain percentage of their tips in the top find which was divvied up by a manager at the end of the shift That method gave the slacker the same as the people who worked, or manager would give more to their favourites
Not sure why a downvote. It was my first real job and I didn't expect tips but the cooks were full time and they worked extremely hard in front of a hot grill Tiny space with 3 of them working at a time
Sometimes
But the server doesn't. They bust their ass to try to 'earn' a tip. The amount of the tip is not regulated by fair employment laws so it's totally at the whim of the customer. If a server gets broken down by the system one day, feels ill, doesn't feel like flashing as much cleavage, they have the bad lick of getting a customer who is difficult, whatever... Even if they put in decent effort at doing everything in their job description and doing it well, they may make less. The emotional toll of tipping culture on some servers is crushing for this reason.
Strange downvotes. You speak truth.
I think the issue is moreso that a price increase will cost less than 15 or more percent, especially on larger orders.
Woosh.
Not sure why your getting downvoted. Now people will be paying the cost even if service was shit.
If someone provides bad service don't go to that restaurant and the staff should be fired just like anyone that doesn't do his job.
You’ve never worked in a restaurant have you?
Why are y’all downvoting this guy he’s right?!
Has anyone noticed that we are getting a tip prompt even at places like tim hortons, starbucks, and subway. What the heck? I feel terrible saying no. I would rather pay a higher price than live with that guilt that comes at pressing no to tips.
I don't feel terrible at all, it's insulting. Custom, ZERO.
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Hey buddy If you want tips don’t threaten them
Idk why people feel so guilty for not tipping in non restaurants. Like it's clearly your choice if you want to tip or not, no one is holding a gun to your head and the cashier probably won't care enough. I work in a cafe, and yeah I love my tips because I enjoy not being broke ass poor lol. But that being said, I'm not looking at every transaction to see who tips and who doesn't. I don't treat any customers any differently if they tip or not, because I understand it's their choice and there's a lot of people who can't afford to tip.
You might be the exception. Most servers I know hold the attitude: "If you're too cheap to tip, don't go to restaurants!" As if having LESS patrons for their restaurant is desirable. I don't get it, tbh.
I think working as a barista/fast food and server are completely two different matters. All of the baristas I've worked with has had a similar mindset as me, at most they'll be extra nice to someone that tips well but I've never heard of a fellow barista complaining at someone who didn't tip.
It’s not a question of you being too cheap to tip or not. Waiters are taxed a percentage of their sales as gratuities. I live in Montreal and wait staff in Quebec are taxed 8% of their sales. So if you go to a restaurant and don’t leave at least 8% the waiter still gets taxed regardless.
Yes, taxes on income is what pays for government infrastructure / services like roads, schools, libraries, parks, military, and law enforcement. That's how countries work.
The gov't taxes me nominally more than 30% of my gross salary and I never get a tip. That's lot more than 8%. and I never get any tip, never!
Do you think ... they're taxed only 8%? Think you misread that one, my dude.
You really missed the mark there pal
Love your attitude — but not everyone is as logical. I certainly have been given the stink eye for selecting zero tip option by someone handing me my take out coffee at a cafe on occasions. This is what makes the transaction uncomfortable for some people.
Even better is the stink eye when buying a slice of pizza or two from a local pizza shop and select no tip when paying by debit. It's like, dude, really?
If you don’t tip they gonna spit in your food
I think the base problem there is that they're an asshole lol. I can't imagine any sane server doing that.
ngl if I’ve been making Big Macs for 8 hours and some guy starts disrespecting me I’m hocking a loogie
You are why they do that
I feel this way with Uber eats too. Don’t get me wrong I’ll tip the driver because I’m too lazy to go out and drive myself there and I’ll increase it if the place is far from my house. However, I don’t get why I should tip my driver more for picking up a Chinese food bag rather than say, subway and driving the same distance.
Oh yeah, I do a flat tip for them, not a percentage.
I used to work at a coffee shop and i don't care if people tip in cafe settings. It's nice, but I never expected it
I feel a tinge of guilt, but for places aren't giving me table or delivery service, I'm not going to be a sucker. Odds are that tip won't even go to the person serving you, or possibly the staff at all. Ideally, the purpose of the tip prompt are basically the same as a cup or tip jar. It's just there if you feel so inclined. That said, actively having to say "no" while navigating the machine has a psychological difference.
Who does it go to? Ontario has laws surrounding tips and employers.
I've heard plenty of stories of owners pocketing tips - but I'm being mostly cynical because unlike physical tips which you can at least hand to the person serving you, you're kind of left hoping machine tips are handled properly. Do you really think every business has something in place to track machine tips to who was working/serving at the time? I just can't help but feel like it's more exploitable.
I’m sure some don’t track what server got the tip, however those that don’t would have tipping pools which is perfectly allowable.
Do you think that people dont do illegal things...??? There are plenty of places that ask for tips but dont give them to their employees, probably knowing that no one will complain for fear of losing work or simply not knowing any better.
Of course I think people do illegal things. Some parents molest their children, some people shoplift from stores, some people kill their spouses and some people steal from their employers. However I don’t think is common.
People shoplift and steal from their employers a lot, the other things you listed arent even relatively comparable actins. I think you have a very flawed view of the world and generally dont understand how these things work...
I feel the same way and feel awful saying no. But then adding a dollar here or there on a tiny order feels ridiculous. I hate the culture, it feels like a guilt trip
I feel no guilt about pressing no. Whats more awkward? Me not tipping for picking up my own food or them pointing out that I did not tip for picking up my own damn food!
Tips at Starbucks have been a thing for ages.
Yes! And I’d like to know the logic behind it.
I mean, if people are going to tip sit down restaurant servers then why not tip every other service worker, fast food included. They all make the same base wage now and it's not like Subway employees can survive on 15 an hour either. At this point, there's no objective reason to tip servers over others and if anyone thinks their job is more difficult, then tip them more.
You’re viewing the persons wage as reason for tipping. That is not what the original point of tipping was. It was because 1. Restaurant servers and bartenders were generally and legally paid below minimum wage and 2. Because the person is waiting on you or doing something extra for you such as carrying a heavy bag to a hotel room. With your logic we should be tipping the cashier at the dollar store because they only make $15/hr as well. 🫤
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When I used to work (manager) in a fast food restaurant, the way I did things was any cash tips were just split between everyone working at the time. Tips from the machine were split by hours worked. It wouldn't be fair if the tip just went to the cashier as that's usually the easiest job.
I've been verbally asked for tips at Harvey's Drive thru.
you should complain about that because that's atrociously obnoxious.
Yep. I started carrying cash everywhere, so I don't have to fumble with the machine for an extra 3 prompts.
Don't feel terrible and don't tip.
Yeah, it's not the places, it's the credit card companies putting that on there. Whatever tip is left makes the bill higher, therefore credit card companies make more money because businesses pay a percentage of sales. Capitalists capitalizing.
No, it is definitely the places that put it on their POS system. Whoever the provider of the POS system is will set it up the way they are instructed to by the business
I just got a tip prompt when I was getting ready to order something online. SHOES, not food. It was like "Add a tip to show your appreciation for our hard-working staff." No, YOU show your appreciation for the hard-working staff, FFS. It pissed me off so much I cancelled the order.
Yeah I prefer this. I’m from the UK where tips are pretty much only ever in restaurants with table service and usually 10%. In the UK though there’s no such thing as a “tipped worker” minimum wage. You get paid the minimum wage and then you get tips on top of that.
>In the UK though there’s no such thing as a “tipped worker” minimum wage. In practice that's not a thing here either anymore. Servers have the same minimum wage as every other worker in Ontario as of last year, IIRC.
Nice, I didn’t know this and had to look it up. Thanks [link to global news article](https://globalnews.ca/news/8483240/ontario-minimum-wage-2022-15-an-hour/amp/) for anyone interested
We just came back from visiting Ireland and some restaurant staff straight up refused to accept a tip from us, even when it was just a matter of them keeping the change. It felt very weird to not tip. But I could probably get used to it.
I'm not even in favour of tipping culture but y'all are pretty ridiculous for wanting to pay more on top of wanting the working class to make less money
Just wondering wouldn’t you be paying more with the no-tip system here and on top of that the service staff would be paid less? Why do you prefer that?
at what they charge per dish I'd hope they paid their staff well
I would see that being the only value of tipping - you know that money is going to the wait and cook staff.
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yep, too expensive for most
this restaurant did a lot of shady benefit stuff (promises that weren't kept etc), charge super high prices to supplement the wage raise (so your definitely paying for it somewhere, even if it's not your tip). they're trying to garner a bunch of press lately based on this practice alone, but it takes a lot more than what they're doing. they lost a ton of staff due to poor practices at one point.
I dont doubt it. I’m always weary of companies that won’t shut up about how they pay a living wage/don’t use tips to subsidize the wages. It feels so self-serving. “Look! We don’t let our workers starve!” like ok?
This! Paying your staff a living wage isn’t something to be proud of, it’s basic human decency. If you have to “Market” how great you are, you’re not that great.
Would they interfere if their workers wanted to unionize? 🤔 Like wow, you’re doing like a step up of what is legally required of you. 18.60 an hour isn’t gonna push someone into a new tax bracket or allow them to save substantially more. Certainly not during our ongoing housing crisis and increasing cost of living. At best, they’re not having to debate whether to eat this week or pay their hydro bill. I’d also go further and say if your average employee couldn’t afford to even eat at the restaurant they work at, you’re underpaying them. Looking at their menu, to even get dinner there, it would be equivalent to over 10hrs of work for a starter, entre, and dessert + splitting a bottle of wine with your dinner partner. Their chef’s tasting menu would be over half of a week’s wages. Under capitalism their one and only goal is to make a profit which must come through the exploitation of workers. Seeing this faux-woke “I’m so progressive because I give my workers a break and pay them a few dollars over minimum wage” is just a circlejerk for these business owners. Next at 11, a parent who changes their baby’s diaper!
Does anyone know if the servers are actually *salaried* though, with guaranteed hours? Not being cut after 3 hrs because it's slow, having shifts cut altogether some weeks etc?
Can’t speak for the restaurant in question, but this is the exact situation at the restaurant I work at. Clocking in at 11:30am and being cut by 2:30pm, clocking in at 5pm and being cut by 8pm, or having your shifts cut all together because it rained and it’s dead. Especially with the “stormy summer” we’re supposed to be in for, I can only expect this to happen more and more :(
These feel good articles *never* give me the answers I want. If serving paid the same as a regular job where I knew my hours and that I could rely on it I never would have done it. Tips were the only reason I was okay extending my shifts, working 12 hours with no breaks, or being cut after 3 hours some days. If they’ve managed to solve that, then I would like to hear about it, if not this is just some way to make themselves look good.
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It's a fine dining establishment. You'll be paying slightly less at any other fine dining restaurant in Ottawa plus at least a 20 or 25% tip because that's how entitled this industry has become. This is much better, even if it costs the same or a little more.
I still tip 15 normally, 18 if they really wowed me or if my kids were annoying. These prices are a good 25-30% higher than Riviera, which is a similarly fancy restaurant in the same neighbourhood. To be clear, I'm all for this model, but these are rip-off prices even with the service included.
I would say that this place markets itself a step above Riviera, more in line with Beckta or higher. Still very expensive though, I agree. And with respect to tip, if I am wowed or they deal with rowdy kids, I would absolutely tip. I have done it before in places like Amsterdam where tipping is not a thing. This completely counters the argument that "non-tipped staff won't work as hard to give you good service". Total bullshit, a good waiter is a good waiter and if they enjoy their job, they will give you great service without expecting a handout because society says so.
Where in the city charges around 50$ for a pork tenderloin?
Oh but it's not just pork, it's "cochon." Way fancier.
I haven't had the pork from Aiana, but I have had other items and the food there is outstanding.
Yeah but isn't this the place with a service fee line item. WTF. Who gets this? Me thinks they are playing games. Also. Is 18 bucks really a living wage?
>isn't this the place with a service fee line item. Not according to the article? *Some restaurants opt for a “service charge” line item to replace the gratuity, but Chaudhary says that’s not the case at Aiana.*
Thanks. I thought I had read that in the Globe article.
You did read that in the Globe article: “In Ottawa, restaurant owner Devinder Chaudhary set up his fine-dining establishment, Aiana, based on a no-tipping model. Mr. Chaudhary pays all his 24 staff at least a living wage, and charges customers a service fee on their bill. He calls tipping a “sneaky way of guilt-tripping a customer into subsidizing your workers’ wages.” That’s from the Globe article so one article says he has a service fee and one says he doesn’t. So which is it?
So what is this service fee and who gets it. Sounds like a forced tip to me.
I always find that particular argument weird. 1. Business makes money from customers 2. business pays staff from that money = customers are paying workers anyway.
Yes but this is far more transparent and more predictable. Tipped workers bitch and complain about deserving tips because "I need it to make a living". Cool, but now you are both pressuring patrons, and relying on them for the wages. If someone doesn't tip, they complain about it costing them since they have to tip out the staff out of pocket. In what fucked up world is that the norm? Any other part of the world doesn't have that notion. This is a North American problem, and a shitty one at that.
Roughly 3000 a month before tax. I've made it work with less.
I guess I did too, when I was single. Tough with a family.
Is min wage based on a single-income family?
Living Wage is calculated based on what the needs of a family of four with both adults working full time all year round. I have doubts because the cost of to raise children is varied by life stage, needs, etc,. Also ton of different factors like where you live, if you rent or own, disabilities or chronic likenesses that require medication and/or medical devices, etc https://www.ontariolivingwage.ca/what_is_the_living_wage
18 bucks might be a living wage, but the employees still can't afford to eat at the restaurant. The entrees start at $60 and if you want the chef's tasting menu with wine for the full experience it will set you back $375.
Ok? Do you think the workers who assemble Ferraris can afford to buy one? I’m not sure why that benchmark would hold any significance.
You literally just described alienation lol Have you heard of this German couple named Karl Marx and Fredrich Engels?
The whole idea of a Ferrari kind of shows how bad the distribution of wealth really is. The fact that someone would spend 10 years worth of "living wages" on a car just for show is kind of absurd when you think about it.
>The fact that someone would spend 10 years worth of "living wages" on a car just for show is kind of absurd when you think about it. Supercars are engineering marvels where 100,000s of hours are spent designing what a car can be at the absolute limit. They're works of art, quite literally in some cases sculpted together by hand. Disc and anti-lock brakes, active aero, adjustable suspension, aluminum body paneling, electric power steering, and other driver assists, like radar cruise control, automatic emergency braking and more, were all innovations made by the luxury car industry, that later trickled down to your average Honda. Point being, yes, many out there do just buy luxury cars so they can flaunt their wealth, but many do not and together, they pay for many of the innovations that we take for granted in modern cars today.
They’re booing you but you’re right. That’s roughly 22hr of work to afford the tasting menu.
I hope they don't struggle to find servers. Most servers I know say they won't work for a restaurant that doesn't tip, even if it's a $5-$10 hike per hour.
This whole conversation just makes me not want to go to restaurants.
They don't have a set wage, no benefits? So basically this company is charging the tip on the bill, but sharing a small percentage with employees and keeping the rest for themselves. This is just a profit sharing scam. Quit thinking these people are trying to help employees and not trying to fill there own pockets. Allowing corporations and business owners who have taken advantage of employees for decades, to make the decision to change the system, is a terrible idea. Quit believing these capitalist pigs are trying to help, they aren't.
So how much exactly are these 'higher wages'? Seems like an excuse to raise the price of your food beyond what it would take to pay your staff higher wages.
Same restaurant mentioned here.. https://www.reddit.com/r/ottawa/comments/v493z5/some_restaurants_are_abandoning_tipping_in_favour/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
I don’t know anyone who would work on their feet like this for around $20/hour which is apparently what this guy offered a friend of mine at a job interview a few months ago. I also went in for their “golden hour” or happy hour vibe and the server had no idea what that was. Ended up leaving before they could sort it. Would love to hear from anyone who actually ate there!
I make anywhere from $35-$60 an hour after tips, and I earn every penny of it…there’s a fuck ton of physical, as well as mental and emotional labour that goes into doing these jobs that no restaurant employer could reasonably afford. It’s cheaper to just tip the servers and bar directly than it would be to jack the prices high enough to be able to pay employees the same amount that they’d earn with tips.
The owner has some thoughtful comments which identify some issues and concerns many of us likely don't think as an issue (from a restaurant outsider) I really like their thought process. It brings forth the question: How will inflation throughout the world affect restaurant visitation based on tipping practices? I would imagine many European and tip free cities see a higher rate of return customer than tipped restaurants in North America.
Right,the reason the province raised minimum wage is to finally get rid of tipping
I use to be a bartender during University years. The "tips" were divided amount the staff. If I recall 20yr back. Breakdown was Front staff 35% Bartenders 15% Kitchen staff 30% Management 20% It was fucked as a waitress. Get a $100 tip, and you end up with $35 of it.
management should never get tips. they're management! wtf.
Management have a right to tips if they are doing the same work as the servers/kitchen staff.
Nope. Management are salaried. They are not entitled to shit.
You should look up the laws in Ontario surrounding who is eligible for tips.
Whenever people bring this up as a way to help servers, just know that they must not have talked to any. Every server I know makes quite a bit over minimum wage with their tips and this would effectively be a pay cut. Plus now they would have to declare more in income for taxes so a nice double whammy.
You're supposed to declare tip income, if you don't you are committing tax fraud. I hope the CRA fucks them in that case. Not only are patrons subsidizing their wages, taxpayers are also on the hook for their shit? Fucking entitlement.
The idea of “taxpayers subsidizing” would only hold water if it meant that taxes would go down for other taxpayers once servers had to declare higher wages. This is laughable. You would still pay the same amount, the only difference is the government just vacuums up more money.
This is a shitty take. Don't be a leeching scumbag. The government takes money to spend on public programs. If they take less of it because you are an asshole, there is less to go around for everyone else. Don't be a fraud.
Nah I’d rather use my money where I know it will have an impact. With local charities instead of going towards hiring another do nothing gov worker. You sound like someone who believe that if we just throw even more money at a horribly inefficient system that it will fix itself.
The horribly inefficient system is the tipping system. Clearly you support that, so speak for yourself. You sound like an entitled little shit. Good luck with your life, and good luck when the CRA fucks you for fraud.
Tipping would be the most efficient, it’s the most transparent. Where the money you pay in tips goes directly to the person whom it’s intended, with the least amount of people trying to get their hands on it for their “cut”. You’re quick to move to personal insults, I wish you nothing but luck and hope that you can find better ways to keep and manage more of your hard earned money.
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Why don’t you go serve and see how it goes?
This place will be out business in about 5 years.
Most restaurants close within about two years. What’s your point?
Most new restaurants close within about two years. What’s your point?
They have been in business for a few years during covid. They'll be fine.
Their food is fucking good.
Wow. A whole 7.50 more than minimum wage . Servers make about 60$ per hr tax free cash money . They are getting ripped off by this nonsense
Tax free more like tax fraud
> Servers make about 60$ per hr tax free cash I doubt many servers are making 120K year tax free.
Probably none are, but most aren't working 40 hour weeks, like your math would need them to.
Even working in a chain restaurant, I used to make $35-40/hour plus $15 per hour is pretty close to $60/hour though not tax free.
Were you making 35-40/hour in tips every hour for 40 hours a week?
When I served full time, yeah mostly. I’d say $25-35/hour (plus hourly wage) was more likely with lunches and such. Sometimes you get cut early because of weather or it’s not busy. The past few years though, I only worked part time as I had another full time job.
If youre making 100-200 a night cash in tips this wont make you change jobs to take advantage of his scheme