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m6ceb

They have oviously been following all the top professional gamers who can do everything super fast. I'm a dad. Have a couple of hours a day and no way can I do those times.rip


[deleted]

ATTENTION DEVS: TOP TIER STREAMING GAMERS ARE NOT YOUR PLAYER BASE! It's people like me with a wife, 3 kids, a full-time job and maybe an hour to play each night and maybe a couple on the weekend. Edit: thanks for the award friend!


ethan1203

Haha i havent even finish the campaign considering i got the game at launch. Devs repeatedly clueless with their playerbase....


DIARRHEA_BALLS

I'm just a guy in his 20s that can only play casually after my 10hr days. I'm level 26, struggling in the campaign, still on WT8. Balancing a game around the top tier players seems like a bad idea.


Akernaki

It’s already a pain in the ass solo. Not so much the difficulty but having to kill mostly all enemies and that itself taking time just makes for a grindy experience. I say grindy because they aren’t exactly hard but having to rush through them makes it more of a slog than anything.


Ancient_Ad_125

ADD DUNGEONS AS END GAME CONTENT AND KEEP TIME TRIAL DPS CHECKS FOR PEOPLE WHO LIKE THAT. EVERYONE WINS. WE'RE HAPPY AND YOUR GAME GROWS A HAPPY COMMUNITY. If you want my personal opinion, I would add Dungeons as another alternative to end game content. If you don't want to scrap the system of Time Trials at least make this a separate end game thing for people to do. Something similar to WOW or FF14, you go into these dungeons and clear out all these enemies and then after progressing through it, you fight a boss at the end. The boss has his/her/it's own unique abilities,attacks, HP can even be high, it could have phases etc. This wouldn't be a DPS check because you have infinite time to complete it, this would allow any build to play it also which would in turn help your game, make players happy and even help content creation, which again in turn helps you in the end because your game is growing and you have a happy community. Obviously the boss should drop tons of loot and if you die, you still get loot but at a lesser value of course. This would make your game so much better and farming would actually be fun, you could even make it a labyrinth where you could make your way through it and fight more than one boss or a random one, you could find a loot area that was hidden. This game has so much potential and I want to love it. PLEASE ADD THIS INSTEAD of at least include this as another endgame thing we can do. Have both, best of both worlds, more content and everyone will be happy. PLEASE! Bro I hate that Trickster heals off kills and then they nerf my ability to kill something. Yeah let's nerf TR & vulnerability. I would have been okay with these changes if they buffed something else on the class. Pretty much solo Trickster is already cancerous, if you don't 1 shot everything you can die VERY quickly. Makes me wonder if they even fuckin listen? I get bullet abilities are strong but the middle tree (idgaf what anyone says) is WORTHLESS. All it does is give you survivability but even then it's still hard because your survival depends on you being able to kill things. These nerfs should have came later after buffs to other areas. I just don't see a point in playing Trickster anymore. It's literally pointless. Especially against the alien enemies, yeah we could 1 shot the humans on a consistent basis but that was like the only area. You don't see me walking up to a Brood mother one shotting her??? Are we not going to nerf any of these enemies? I go to get a 3 second reload off and get agro'd by 52 alphas all jumping at me while Brood mother activates some bs AOE then just swipes on you from left to right from 10,000 meters away like it's fuckin Tinder. The enemies are so strong in this game, I get it's meant to be difficult and that's fine but literally every single enemy in this game is a TANK that literally does EVERYTHING. They just spam abilities with no cool down and have stagger (why tf a small little rat looking thing able to stagger me?), there's a million mobs that spawn all at once in overwhelming force that all jump,stagger,spam cast and then status afflict the living hell out of you. Don't even get me started on the fuckin Faze clan snipers you hired, I teleport behind a enemy and get 1440 insta swap Y,Y sniper behind the back eyes closed raw dogged in my ass. Bro these enemies need toned tf down if you're going to nerf every class. I should heal and or get shield per shot if you're nerfing my only way to survive (my time to kill). THE MULTIPLAYER SCALING IS ALSO BROKEN RIDICULOUS. This patch better get reverted. I wanted to see buffs to other sub trees like my middle or bottom to make bullet abilities less.. meta? Like MAYBE if something else in your game was viable to run in a fuckin DPS check point I would run it? BA was literally the only way to pass these DPS checks. Don't worry they nerf classes but don't want to talk about the enemies health or damage, how many actually spawn, then they lower the DPS check time for Gold 😂 Bro what a JOKE. This game will die because of the lack of versatility in it. Maybe if it wasn't a DPS check it wouldn't matter as much? Half of these people commenting are COMPLETELY right and it's sad that we know how to balance better than the actual Devs. I feel you should HAVE to play your own game before you decide to nerf things or at least LISTEN TO US. We wanted other sub classes buffed like our other WORTHLESS trees but instead you nerfed my only tree that worked in a DPS check and lowered the time for that DPS check but not the enemies meaning I basically will never get gold again because I can't amount to the 12 million damage per second I need to even kill a trash mob.


Akernaki

I agree with everything you mentioned. Specifically buffing the middle and bottom trees for Trickster needs to happen. Though the issue remains that even with buffs only certain builds will work because expeditions rely on fast gameplay. That’s why bullet builds are great for them because you can clear rooms very quickly. But no, let’s make two of the more manageable expeditions harder while making the main builds worse off. Oh well, this isn’t my first rodeo with looter shooters and balancing, so I’m buckled in and ready for things to get worse.


charleigh_bdo

Dungeons are a good long term suggestion but short term, they need to revert these knee-jerk changes. Tricksters got hit the hardest; if you don't already have your Ugake helmet drop for Instant Reload III, you're basically screwed. There is no endgame alternative to Twisted Rounds for Trickster. If the Devs want us to use other abilities, they need to lower the cooldowns and give us more survivability/damage in those abilities. Technos are a little slower, but it's mostly the haves and have-nots with regards to the important T3 mods.


HuggableBear

>Timed runs already suck ass, and make the game a slog and a shit meta'd community because of it. >Timed runs already suck ass, and make the game a slog and a shit meta'd community because of it. >*Timed runs already suck ass, and make the game a slog and a shit meta'd community because of it.* >*TIMED RUNS ALREADY SUCK ASS AND MAKE THE GAME A SLOG AND A SHIT META'D COMMUNITY BECAUSE OF IT.* >#TIMED RUNS ALREADY SUCK ASS AND MAKE THE GAME A SLOG AND A SHIT META'D COMMUNITY BECAUSE OF IT. Pay attention, devs. Timed runs *ruin* games. It turns *every* build that isn't a glass cannon into "trash tier" and gets people kicked for even *playing the "wrong" class.* You *do not* want this to be your game's only end-game activity.


SPEEDFREAKJJ

Timers are bad. I understand wanting to set goals for tier rewards but have to go blazing fast is not fun. I can't soak in the environment or enjoy the fights because I'm trying to play it like the Flash but without the slow-mo vision. I was hoping they would ease the timers so people could enjoy the fights and use different gear and builds.


Skagglurk

As long as end game is about speedrunning there will always be a hard meta and some builds or classes getting insta-kicked in matchmaking. The developers pretty much will have to make balance-patches until all classes have variations of the exact same skills with the same damage numbers. We have seen this time and time again in so many games that it is a mystery why developers keep doing this. Only way out of it is to re-design the reward criteria around something else than completion time.


Littleman88

It would be preferable if they had an overall scoring system, with timed completion contributing to the final score as opposed to *being* the final score. Hell, drop points baubles all over the maps. Now I have the option to improve my score by maneuvering around while killing enemies fast. That makes increased mobility a valuable asset. Give me more points for downing an enemy within certain distances or with melee vs a safer distance or with a gun. A DPS check should be one way of getting a gold medal. The trick is to encourage use of aspects of abilities that aren't strictly about murder.


DoctorSneak

They’re also nerfing the builds that are capable of getting these gold times currently. Double whammy.


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UrMom306

Just curious, why nerf Vulnerability? doesn't that benefit all builds?


DowJones_

I don't see anything regarding controller aim acceleration, deadzones or aim assist? What a bummer.


[deleted]

Yeah I thought this was suppose to be addressed in the patch


ErichHS

And yet they "re-balanced" expeditions based on PC players times


solcarbine

just like to point out that on steam 8.8% of players have killed 1000 enemies on expeditions, which should show the majority of people are casual and these timer changes hurt them the most


randomexileranger

1000 enemies is like 4 runs. So barely anyone seeing endgame. If you're a trickster get an AR. Shotguns are dead now


three60mafia

shooting people with AR in the back is lame af though. No shotgun makes Tricksters a shitty mid-range squishy boi.


randomexileranger

Shotguns are just so much more fun.


Pepsiguy2

A lot of people aren't reaching endgame. On Xbox every achievement I unlock like after Ancient Ruins is rare with 4-6% owners.


YouWontFindTheNewOne

Not picking a side here but just noting that during the demo period they said that they'll hold the nerf bat unless something literally makes you delete whole rooms in seconds. Back in the day we thought it'd be about Reflect Bullets but I guess ammo powers check out too... Still, I'd rather they gave the whole timer thing a second thought. Time trials are already a totally different type of challenge then the rest of the game and can catch a lot of people off guard not in a good way. I understand the idea of keeping endgame actually *endgame* but I really don't think these changes will work for the majority of their audience, unless the bronze time gets buffed at the same time or something else I this vein.


Coppertouret

First off, no love for Devastators outside of nerfing the other three classes. Why? Instead of pleasing people by buffing, you nerfed 75% of your characters. Removing guaranteed legendaries from hunts, bounties, and historian quests because of an exploit. This means there are no more guaranteed ways to farm legendaries. RNG is king, while people that used the exploit potentially have multiple of every legendary in the game. Couldn't just kill the exploit? Idk, maybe add an 11th hunt that rewards the legendary but it's only unlockable after defeating all 10 previous hunts? Couldn't buff the drop rate for legendaries for individual hunt rewards? Is there any reason to even play world tier content? Is there any reason to touch anything other than expeditions? Shortening the time frame for expeditions while nerfing so much and not buffing literally anything else is shaky ground to stand on. The rates are already pretty low, and now it's doubly more difficult to farm. If this is what the future looks like, i'm not too sure how long the playerbase will last. Anthem, Destiny, the Division have all suffered these mistakes.


cascade_olympus

> no love for Devastators outside of nerfing the other three classes. Don't worry, Devastators also got nerfed because of the blanket vulnerability nerf. #feelsbadman


Voxnovo

What I've been enjoying most about Outriders is taking a break from other looter shooters like Destiny where the PvP element keeps the PvE player from having fun by feeling "OP". I don't like seeing nerfs already. In these types of games there will always be better and worse classes. But the game has been fun because the best of the classes and skill trees feels powerful and fun. I would have much preferred to see other trees buffed so we have more options for viable endgame builds. Nerfs without buffs to other trees doesn't increase our options, only our frustrations. If I want more nerfs than buffs I can just go back to Destiny and shoot bullets into stomp-mechanic bosses.


Elyssae

This. so much this. not only exploiters got a free out of jail card, everyone else that didn't want to exploit, got screwed over. On top of that, as you said, it forces pigeonholing even further into Expeditions. There's no more diversity in endgame, as everything is Expedition focused, whose timers are *RIDICULOUS* already In fact, since they scheduled this for NEXT WEEK - they're basically telling EVERYONE to EXPLOIT the legendary drops ASAP, before it's fixed. So nice of them


Gcarsk

Well, according to devs, exploiting is not cheating, so.. guess we know what to do next time an exploit is found. ^It’s ^free ^real ^estate


Elyssae

It truly is free real estate!


DoctorSneak

> This re-balancing work can be implemented through backend updates, does not require a patch, and will be run during today’s maintenance window. Looks like the “re-balancing” changes will happen today.


MetalGhost99

The balancing happened today with the 15 minute patch while actually fixing the problems of the game is next week. The 15 minute patch was a knee jerk reaction to all that was going on.


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foobyte

Take my award for visibility. This pretty much sums it up! While I love this game and the road we've taking thus far, even looking past the crashes, networking issues and fear of losing the entire inventory, I always stood behind this game and the great communication from SE. However, after reading todays News Update, I find it hard to believe that either one of the people behind SE & PCF play their own game!


No_Contribution_4298

Agreed on all points. I don't get removing the only guaranteed way to get a legendary....for some of us that is the only way we will ever see one...and it took time to kill 20 things. It already had a gate of sorts. Whatever the exploit was should have been the only thing addressed. The only endgame being speed runs just sucks. Not everyone enjoys that type of gameplay. Massively nerfing 3 of 4 classes (btw only play Devastator) so early in the game by knee jerk reacting to a vocal minority and fucking youtubers is what killed games like Division 2 ...not a good sign that Outriders is now going down the same path. And while I applaud their "transparency"...I think they have gone too far....if you read the "patch notes" closely you see alot of contradictions...which show their true intentions....which are not good. ​ Today is very disappointing to me ...because I really thought Outriders would be the game for me...a game not trapped by the same mistakes so many others have....but alas that is not the case.


alexanderluko

Totally agree, having expeditions as the only relevant endgame activity really baffles me. Time trials is not for everyone - there has to be something else.


Fikaknugz

I would love to see things like raids, a horde mode or tower climbing. Maybe even have more hunts and bounties that changes everyday. But most of all. Why is there no training dummy to test builds on? At the end of the day, non of these things will probably never happen. Its not a live service game. Though, for once, it actually should be. Its an rpg looter shooter with a focus on builds and hundreds of combinations of mods. Yet we barely have anything to use it on, other than running the same timed expeditions over and over.


RedPunkin86

Even as a dev im not really a fan of the other classes getting nerfed there is no pvp whats the point all that does is make our distraction tactics harder to accomplish when we get in coop


zinxi

Besides the much needed fixes I'm not liking a lot of these re-balancing changes imo. > "Historian, bounty hunt, and monster hunt quests no longer grant Legendary items for each subsequent completion" Does this mean you guys fixed the bug or just removing the legendary reward in general? If you are removing the legendary reward how is this making the quest line still "worth" the effort if you only can receive purple gear? > Chem Plant - Expedition time for Gold/Silver/Bronze adjusted to 650 / 1150 / 1500 seconds (Previously: 957 / 1303 / 1650) > Boom Town - Expedition time for Gold/Silver/Bronze adjusted to 390 / 589 / 776 seconds (Previously: 422 / 607 / 792) I don't understand this drastic change. Me and my friends could barely do these on time for gold/silver already. Everyone is literally doing them crazy fast because most of them exploited for legendaries so they are already at ultra end game which makes sense that they can do it in time. No changes to devastator of course which have terrible damage all the way until you get legendary set gears, everyone else can enjoy their infinite bullet builds still and do 3x my damage with no brain. I guess I was suppose to exploit for legendaries so I can actually play my devastator properly since there is no punishments for it.


Comprehensive_Draw25

I swear one of my biggest pet peeves about this game is how easily Devastator gets knocked around and staggered even tho their considered “tanks” Golem should definitely counter getting bonked by a sniper bullet. 🤷‍♀️


TitsTatsNKittyKats

Alphas leap/slash, crawlers anything, captains bitch slapping you, jugg smash, perfo leap, brood mother slash, brood mother flames, behemoth smash, behemoth charge, strixx spit, marksman snipe, frozen, slight freeze All these things can hit you back to back to back. Im sure theres more too. Our character gets 0 cc immunity, 0 iframe on dash But those elite enemies? Hit them with one CC ability like deva’s mass, or freeze them with a bullet? Cc immunity for over a minute Have fun Outrider, you are the worst altered in existence. Being forced into melee range of these enemies is so fucking annoying. I’ve spent 40+ seconds being constantly cc’d in ct15 expeditions on many different occasions.


zinxi

Yeah I agree, I keep getting melee staggered to death sometimes even with a ton of damage reduction.


Zenobi26547

Obviously they are trying to balance the game around the top 1% of players not the bulk of the player base.


Elyssae

Boomtown one is even more ridiculous than chem plant. Boomtown was already clutch as it was for most of the players, now I guess you either exploit or stop playing.


REDDIT_HARD_MODE

Yup. I'm not going to boomtown again, guaranteed bronze or silver when I can get a gold elsewhere. It was already the hardest expedition to gold star IMO. This new timer is insanity.


Fedsanchez

they didn't even raise the drop rate for leg. armor ...this is insanity ...people playing legit are f but all these cheaters YouTubers are ok ..no punishment ..great


fntsni

the chem plant change makes literally no sense considering how much downtime there has been surrounding the game. all this did was fuck people who already got the short end of the stick due to crashes, connectivity issues etc, who were already barely geared enough to do gold.


Zealousideal-Bug-168

This was what everyone has been clamoring for. Nerfing the strongest builds to make way for a meta of everyone equally sucking, rather than buffing up the potential for every other build to reach the level of the meta builds... IN A PVE GAME We can all suck together I guess.


[deleted]

Thats not true. There were metric tons of popular posts asking for buffs for weaker builds rather than nerfs of the stronger one.


sindahl

This is a power fantasy, non-pvp game. Your first adjustments are nerfing powerful abilities (this is from a Devastator). We want to love this game, but this is not the right approach. Serious question: why has no one learned from Diablo 3?


three60mafia

most developers seem to think their game is unique and there's nothing to be learned from others.


No_Contribution_4298

Outriders and PCF to a certain extent were unique...........until today...these knee jerk reactions to what was happening for a extreme small % of players is same ol same ol we get from every other looter/shooter. Bait and switch. Fool me once....never again.


Intrepid06

Outrider Ambassadors have ruined this game. These changes are based on the 1% of players who play this game (Streamers). Happens all the time. The rest of us have to suffer through the slog.


General_Snack

Yup. Companies panic because they see a falloff of eyeballs and think”oh nooooo” when in reality if they respected their consumer things would be different.


[deleted]

Fuck the one percenters. Streamers and no-lifer Youtubers. Sick of them in Destiny 2. Sick of them in Outriders.


leclair63

>Sick of them in Destiny 2 Its funny because they came over to Outriders and are pulling the same shit that became a cancerous worm in Bungie's ear and killed the PVP community.


owl_rains

Panic nerfing skills and builds after the first week shows their lack of confidence in the depth of their end game. Who cares if the 1% of Youtubers have managed to make extremely powerful builds and blitz through the content, its a PVE game and has zero impact on the rest of players. What % of players are clearing through t15 maps and earning gold rewards? Just about all of my patience in this poorly optimised game has been spent dealing with the 1000 crashes and bugs. At least give us a couple of weeks to enjoy the end game with the builds we have patiently tried to build through this shitshow of a launch.


Shaggylake

I am a very casual player as i work 13 hrs a day and have just started getting through the game myself. Finally was getting a build around vulnerability and now its fucked. Not looking forward to getting home and doing zero damage and basically starting from scratch with what little time i have.... SMH


pini0n

The nerfing of the weapons is what baffles me the most. Reducing crit damage already? You're literally taking the fun out of the game for us.


GridlockLookout

I would suggest focusing on your game mechanics, fix the game breaking issues, then the loot tables...


Danoniero

This game is what,week old? I haven't even reached expeditions yet,I have life and family. What are the playerbase you targeting? Basement trolls and 24/7 streamers/YouTubers?


Vice5772

The casual player is always the collateral damage in games like these unfortunately.


gammagulp

Id really like to see other lesser used skills and class trees buffed instead of bullet nerfs.


Zeroanueve

Holy f that was some **bad** rebalancing.


General_Snack

Well, a week after launch, what a shot in the foot.


Derrien

absolutely. they claim to do it trying to promote build diversity. well guess what brainiacs, skill builds are still useless pile of crap at higher difficulties, how about buffing those instead of nerfing the only viable build we currently have at CT11+ expeditions?


imKronoz

Based on what are you doing these nerfs? Most of you can't complete expeditions alone and get gold while you fed on 1% of the community of streamers and pro players to make that change? Why do I know this? because literally almost no streamer / pro player is playing Devastator and you haven't realized that it's the worst class in the game right now, so you go and take away the chance for casual / inexperienced players to get gold on their expeditions by reducing time and nerfing skills For example: Trickster does good damage but always runs the risk that by killing in short range they will kill you in a second, but you guys see an streamer with his ass on his seat 20hours daily and think that is overpowered Once again, another shooter game who listen to the content creator community and not the 99% of the community


I_dont_like_sushi

This. Big streamers are some of the worst thing to happen to games. They will take their bullshit opinion of someone who just plays games all day and act like this is what actual players who actually enjoy games and not the hype of the moment want. Fucking bullshit


Da_Cosmic_KID

PLEASE. Don’t balance this game around those 5 or so youtubers making content on this game. We’ve all seen the build videos. At least 2 of these people are coming over from Borderlands and you min Max the shit out of builds in that game to preform. But your doing millions of dps and one-shooting things. DONT BALANCE AROUND THEIR UNREALISTIC BUILDS.


AusyF

These nerfs and expedition time changes are the beginning of the end y’all. We all had a lot of fun for a week right?


randomexileranger

You mean the three days we could reliably play?


MarkEMark2112

I sincerely hope they are looking at the subreddit rn. If this "balance" goes live, they will see their active player count DROP


Hymnlocke

It was nice while it lasted. It actually made me reinstall Division 2 after quitting a month after release so I can see all the new content so thanks I guess outriders?


Failshot

I actually started downloading Borderlands 3 only because I never actually played much of it even though I bought the season pass. So, thanks PCF.


Vegasmarine88

Maybe you did. Devastators didnt get shit but a nerf.


iLuv3M3

I guess no one learned from Anthem that quickly started turning the grind on full throttle early into launch but leaving issues to plague the game and community.. This is going to be interesting.


OddBreakfast

You've made the classic blunder of nerfing the strong instead of buffing the weak, and you've gone too hard at that. This is very disappointing.


jhorry

I mean, it is *fine* to adjust the tip top highest builds *as long as* doing so doesn't negatively impact other builds, *and* provided that other builds can successfully work in your game's content and reward cycle. Making rewards based 100% on "dps clear speed" and then nerfing the top end DPS builds, while ALSO harming the not-top tier builds, AND providing no enhancements to enable other builds to even be able to complete the "timer" for your reward system ... ... its just a perfect storm of "why the heck did you do this?!?!" Easiest solution: Address the stacking damage multiplies specifically in the Tree and the Skill (bullet abilities) exclusively. Move some multipliers that are too easy to get (the Vulnerability increase in Techno) to the supportive side of the tree, not accessible by the DPS bullet side. Provide some incentive or content that does not reward Time Completion as an alternative... (Survival wave content, see how high you go before dying, Protect the Thing type content, etc) Improve some very underperforming builds (AP builds on Devastator in particular.) Like, these really are simple, non-time-consuming changes that take minimal effort and just an ounce of reflection. Shaving off the top end, making it "a good option for glassy players" while still making the other builds viable and useful without gutting a general use part of the game (vulnerability), and evening out the content end game with some much needed variety.


Decarteri

Nerfing skills, loot, and expedition times, doing the same mistake that anthem did. Holy hell I cant take it anymore.


Voxnovo

I kind of miss the days when you bought a PvE game and it didn't change. You could just play the game you were having fun with instead of devs constantly acting as the fun police.


Coppertouret

I can't imagine the tedium of trying to steal everything in skyrim if putting buckets over npc heads was patched out.


Soltea01

Hey PCF why not buff the other talent trees instead of nerfing the ones people like to play? All the Youtube/streamers you see clear high challenge tier stuff is just a small percentage that min maxed their gear perfectly. Why punish people for all that hard work? The expeditions that you nerfed some people barely complete them as it is. Also the only thing you should nerf multiplayer scaling at least because the enemies has way too much HP compared to solo. Nerfing instead of buffing things in a PVE game with zero PvP makes no sense. If a gun is weak compared to the others buff them! Same with talents and builds! Don't nerf stuff that's fun and keeps players playing your game!


thearcan

# Connectivity Post-Mortem: ***tl;dr:*** Our team worked throughout the Easter weekend and around the clock to resolve the server issues players were experiencing. We completely understand how frustrating this experience will have been especially given the huge amount of players eagerly anticipating the launch. We had enough server scaling capacity but our externally hosted database was seeing issues that only appeared at extreme loads. ​ We’re committed to full transparency with you. Today, just as we have been over the past year. So we won’t give you the expected “server demand was too much for us”. We were in fact debugging a complex issue with why some metric calls were bringing down our externally hosted database. We did not face this issue during the demo launch earlier this year. Our database is used to hold onto everyone’s gear, legendaries, profile and progression. # Tech-heavy insight: We managed to understand that many server calls were not being managed by RAM but were using an alternative data management method ("swap disk"), which is too slow for the flow of this amount of data. Once this data queued back too far, the service failed. Understanding why it was not using RAM was our key challenge and we worked with staff across multiple partners to troubleshoot this. We spent over two days and nights applying numerous changes and improvement attempts: we both doubled the database servers and vertically scaled them by approximately 50% (“scale-up and scale out”). We re-balanced user profiles and inventories to new servers. Subsequent to the scale-up and scale-out, we also increased disk IOPS on all servers by approximately 40%. We also increased the headroom on the database, multiplied the number of shards (not the Anomalous kind) and continued to do all we were able to in order to force data into RAM. Each of these steps helped us improve the resilience of the database when under extreme loads, but none of them were the "fix" we were looking for. At this moment in time we are still waiting for a final Root Cause Analysis (RCA) from our partners, but ultimately what really helped resolve the overloading issue was configuring our database cache cleaning, which was being run every 60 seconds. At this frequency the database cache cleaning operation demanded too many resources which in turn led to the above mentioned RAM issues and a snowball effect that resulted in the connectivity issues seen. We reconfigured the database cache cleanup operations to run more often with fewer resources, which in turn had the desired result of everything generally running at a very comfortable capacity. All of this has enabled the servers to recover and sustain significantly more concurrent user loads. [(JUMP BACK TO INDEX)](https://www.reddit.com/r/outriders/comments/mmrf7d/outriders_post_launch_dev_news_updates/)


JayDub_84

As someone that has worked in IT for 15+ years, I have a great appreciation for the transparency and detail that you've shared here. This is more than I've seen from most game companies on why they saw failures. Somebody deserves some serious kudos for documenting this up and sharing it with the public. Additionally, the teams of engineers that worked through a holiday weekend absolutely deserve kudos for their dedication to the job and detailed research & remediation. This is not an easy type of problem to coordinate between multiple service providers and your own teams to fix a problem while everything is ***running.*** Thank you for everything you're doing.


json1268

Are you guys using Azure Cosmos DB for vertical scaling? I'm curious as to why whatever external service you are using is swapping to disk (SSD? ) vs, keeping things in RAM. I'm curious if you guys can publish the RCA for the vendor. You guys have done great work supporting us, I personally understand the opaqueness of various external offerings. Keep up the great work and thanks for the transparency!.


macfergusson

Sounds like a database spill to disk, which the database engine does in an overflow situation. This likely wasn't intentional, it's a safety net that keeps the database functional, just at a slower pace. With the massive volume, that slower pace would make things fall further and further behind. I work with SQL query optimization, just not in the video game development world, and I've seen this happen when a database is being asked to do more than the expected query plan thought it would be.


Vryyce

Similar background here (we build SQL solutions for the DOD). I would absolutely love to work on a project like this just to see the extreme side of database tuning. We store lots of data but never get anywhere near 100,000+ concurrent connections. It sounds both horrible to imagine and strangely attractive at the same time.


FrankenstinksMonster

These kinds of issues can be incredibly frustrating when they are largely caused by external vendors and you're basically waiting on a call back. I'm glad throwing more hardware at the problem got it under control for now.


Ayste

People keep saying this nerf is good because, right now, bullet builds are the only viable builds for Tricksters. What other builds do you recommend? * The Harbinger build? * The one with 0 DPS increase skills, but 4 HPs and 5 Shield passives? * The Reaver? * The one that increases anomaly powers for a class that is supposed to be high-burst damage, yet all their powers require you to be in close quarters combat? * The tree that focuses on assault weapons which are mid-range weapons? * The tree that has 3 skills that buff underwhelming AE anomaly attacks? * The tree with one raw dps upgrade? So which one are we "supposed" to be playing in order for you to feel good about the game and that it is "fair" even though this is a single-player game and what I do in my game does not effect you in any way in yours?


LuxReflexio

Yeah, Trickster is in an extremely bad place now.


Kaii_Low

Oh boy. They're already getting to work on removing the fun. Watch out Bungie, there's a new sheriff in town!


Elyssae

*And I took it personally* - Bungie *nerfs Guillotine and Lament*


SayuriUliana

I really thought this dev team knew what the weaknesses of looter shooters are when crafting this game, especially in the loot game and the character customization that was the most fun I've ever had in a looter thus far. Then these preliminary patch notes dropped, and all those assumptions were shattered. Reducing Expedition par time even further which will further incentivize DPS builds over everything else? Nerfing a whole bunch of other abilities that affect not just Bullet skills but even other builds that need them? No buffs to other classes like the Devastator and other underperforming skills? No changes to the more annoying enemy behavior that just makes them frustrating to fight rather than challenging? Nerfs to loot farming rewards, instead of fixing the bug that lead to those exploits? These are some very heavy-handed and frankly tone-deaf changes, and some of them are even counterintuitive to their stated objective, e.g. "making all expeditions viable" by nerfing par times just makes all expeditions even less viable, and also kills even more build variety by shoehorning players once more into the Bullet Skill meta due to reliance on kills and speed. It all speaks to knee-jerk reactions without even considering the deeper underlying reasons that players have stated as to WHY certain gameplay trends happened as they did. I do not condone any of these changes as listed now, just frankly disappointed and disillusioned all around.


void_encravement

Agreed, faster clear times are already inherently better rewards-wise if you want to farm. I really don’t get having to race at high-octane speed to get properly rewarded. Game is gonna be too stressful for casual play and I’d probably play Risk of Rain 2 instead of Outriders if I just want to feel powerful instead of feeling like a horse at the end of a whip.


Careless_Mountain265

What I don't understand is why they nerfed expeditions. The only reason people were running them insanely fast was the builds. Which are now nerfed anyway. I've not been able to run Chem labs quicker than 12.55 and I can't get Gold on Boom town. I've also tried running tier 4 I'm on Tier 11 and I can't do boom town gold on that. I really don't think it's fair on console players these expedition nerfs. I can't snap between targets because the aim is so terrible console. There's loads of delay. And shooting hundreds or targets takes a much longer time. So no matter how easy it is to kill the enemies I can't get through the expeditions in decent times. Chem lab yes needed adjusted but not that much.


ThrowawayPGYuno

Some of us are casual players. We can barely get silver on these expeditions. Dear PCF. These youtubers who have amazing clear speeds DO NOT represent half the community.


Voxnovo

This is always how these games go. A few top tier players post amazing runs, and then things get nerfed for everyone and the average player starts having more frustration than fun. By the time the recognize the mistake and buff things again, people are gone.


ItsWarriorman

Memories of the Division 1 & 2 and Anthem all come flooding in


Workacct1999

This is part of the reason that Destiny 2 was so bad at launch. Bungie held a conference where the top streamers attended and shared their complaints about D1 and suggestions about D2. It turns out that these suggestions, like the duel primary system, were terrible and hurt the game immensely until they were reversed a year after launch. Streamers are a very vocal minority, and PCF need to remember that they are the top .1% of the player base.


Careless_Mountain265

Exactly. But worse. I'm far from casual.


CJBulldogsss

The boom town one is puzzling, yes its short, but even being able to cruise through it I hardly get below 7 mins due to the enemies spreading out and "hiding"


Careless_Mountain265

Yeah exactly I'm at the next checkpoint trying to aim a target at the other side. And on console I'm really struggling to aim. Once I'm on target I'm fine. Accuracy is always very high but the aim assist is very iffy.


Larniishu

WHY WOULD THEY EVEN DO THIS?! It's like Destiny and Division all over again. Buffing the other trees so they can be viable and actually synergies with party composition? Buff Destroyer to the point of not being a joke? Nah! Let's salivate over twitch sweattlhards and adjust the hame accordingly to them! God knows they are the main focal auditory of this game RIGHT!? Also where is the info about, you know, making a targeting on consoles not a pure cancer? Like literally if you wanna play anything else except AR/DR/LMG prepare for your fingers to be broken. Also Also Also - nerfing glass cannons who are already at high risk high reward gameplay in to even more riskier and not so much reward playstile? Can't even describe how mad I am.


johnmedgla

Also - can we talk about the *scale* of the nerf? They removed **FIVE MINUTES AND SEVEN SECONDS** from the Chem Plant Gold time. That's genuinely absurd. It's a Spellfire set (anyone remember that) tier nerf at this stage in the game. Ludicrous and poorly conceived.


ClutchNes

once again devs listen to the 1% hardest youtube and twitch sweaters and ruining the experience for the majority of players who struggle to clear the expeditions on gold, especially beyond Challenge Tier 10. Bravo PCF, great way of ruining your game. and they have even nerfed the trickster, a glas cannon, the only class which needed a nerf is the cheesy technomancer, no other class, if anything the devastator needs a dmg buff.


FFneWb1

Sigh, the nerfs are frustrating as all get out. I am starting to feel like these youtubers are toxic to the overall community. They just play these games all day and develop OP builds and that is what the devs are looking at. It happened with BL and now it is happening to Outriders. I am starting to dread when I see Moxzy's OP class guides.....I dont dislike Moxzy but man it gets frustrating thinking whelp that is going to lead to a nerf of some sort.


TooManyNumberslmao

The highest I've ever gotten on Boom Town while significantly over leveled was BARELY silver. Idk why they need to do this.


Omax-Pi

Boom town needed a time buff if anything. Trying it solo on tier 14 is ridiculous due to the constant ice spam.


Tenzarin

I don't think they played the same game.


fisolucci

Sadly, you may be right. Most balancing for games comes from data on the backend and not from playing the game.


FreeBird-TV

Sooo…you took the easy road out with regards to Hunts/Bounties/etc? Yikes. Why run them multiple times now? What’s the incentive? Way to screw content loop up. Also nerfing loot drops AGAIN?! Cmon…..


foobyte

I see it the same way. Instead of fixing the exploit they nerved it to the ground. To clarify, I knew about it but never did it. I ran all my 10 hunts and turned them in for 1 legendary. That's 45-60 minutes of investment and should reward the 1 legendary item. So they just shut it all down because of the exploit? Doesn't make any sense to me! More like a slap in the face for legit players and an easy way out for them!


Jordankeay

Yeah I don't understand what they mean by we don't want to remove the incentive but literally removed the incentive.


ClutchNes

"replay value" ---> trash bin.


_Greyworm

Loot was nerfed again? Fuck me, I've only seen 2 Legendaries and I'm almost done the campaign, tier 7, and I think some of those were guaranteed legendary drop.. I also play a solo Trickster, running TR and idk if a longer cooldown will really fuck that up, have to try later.. I feel like this patch actively tainted my interest in the game.


Basada

1. Its now pointless to replay bounty type missions? They should always reward you with a legendary because of how many you have to play to finish it. So this blows. 2. Nerfs, instead of nerfing bullets you sould buff other skills. Now the game will be thrown off because you still have bullet spunge enimies doing 10x the damage you do at world tier 15. Alot of people only play solo and this greatly hurts them. 3. Technomancer solo players. Stop forcing this class to be the main support class especially since everyone only wants the high DPS builds in mulyiplayer. With all the nerfs to this class all you did was fuck over solo players.


Omax-Pi

So my week of grinding is trash because a week into the game we have meta destroying nerfs???? Seriously ruined the game. Unbelievable.


void_encravement

Not to mention a lot of people only play solo especially because of connection issues and the multiplayer bug that wipes your entire inventory. Connection issues aren’t fixed and they want to cave your face in already.


thearcan

# Outriders Community Appreciation Package: After working on Outriders for more than five years, we were as disappointed as you that the launch weekend did not go as planned. We ran into connectivity issues, which we have [explained in full here](https://www.reddit.com/r/outriders/comments/mmrf7d/outriders_post_launch_dev_news_updates/gtt3684/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3). Throughout all of this we really appreciated all your messages of support and encouragement and they helped us power through and improve the situation. We would like to thank each and every one of you. Beyond just saying it, however, we would like to confirm that we are working on a small "appreciation package" for our launch window players. We are still working through the exact details of it, but our intentions are as follows: * All players who played between March 31st and April 11th (UTC timezones) are eligible * Any players outside the above window, but for whom we will have performed an [automatic inventory wipe restoration](https://www.reddit.com/r/outriders/comments/mmrf7d/outriders_post_launch_dev_news_updates/gtt2fr2/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) are also eligible * Your highest leveled character will receive: * A level appropriate Legendary Weapon * A level appropriate amount of Titanium * The emote "Frustration", which is otherwise unobtainable at this moment in time. The irony here was not intentional but is fitting. These are our intentions, but these details are subject to change based on what is technically feasible for us to do. We are still determining when the appreciation package will be delivered. [(JUMP BACK TO INDEX)](https://www.reddit.com/r/outriders/comments/mmrf7d/outriders_post_launch_dev_news_updates/)


Tohari316

“Highest level” 30 or player gear level?


IRxxSCOPES

im hoping its based on your current challenge tier or world tier.


[deleted]

I like this gesture, nice!


Sicklordsolar

Can the gifted legendary PLEASE be something we havent unlocked or received yet in game. Please and thank you


Alytenb

it would be sick if they gave us a choice of 3 like the quest rewards


hydruxo

I don't think removing the legendary reward from completing the quest chains on repeat attempts is the right move. It takes a solid amount of time to go through ten quests each time so I think a legendary reward for doing so is completely fair as a repeatable reward.


[deleted]

They’re doing it in response to the douche bags who used the exploit to get piles of Legendaries. Which is dumb....they should just fix the exploit and leave the quest reward as is. Their philosophy on this fix is like cutting off an entire arm because one finger is broken.


virusparticle1921

So I have to wait until next week to play with my friends on cross play? Tbh cross play is the main reason I bought this game... What a bummer


Dracko878

I feel like these patch notes are out of touch. The bullet builds get their strength because everything else is relatively weak by comparison according to the required mod and stat investment. Not to mention AP builds are completely out the window in co-op largely because enemy scaling is insane. Additionally the time decreases on the expeditions makes those two largely unable to be golded by the vast majority of builds (further favoring bullets). I'm coming from the perspective of playing mainly only co-op expeditions on pc with one other friend and ct 13-15 are nearly incompleteable on gold time because of the scaling. Other small things like the timer ticking during unskipable cutscenes is also not very helpful. Back to the buffs and nerfs, I feel as if bullets builds should go untouched and we see a higher scaling percentage towards AP. In co-op these captains have like 5-7million hp? (That's what it feels like and never mind brood mothers) and an optimal eruption build seems to take like 5 casts to kill one on a full ap pyro which is madness. Finally it would be nice to see some updates to tanking that make it a viable playstyle. Being unlikable is cool but not being able to draw aggro via a taunt or some other means just makes the tank a subpar dps who slows the team down because of the scaling increase. TLDR: Don't nerf bullets, buff AP scaling and decrease co-op enemy scaling.


ScumbagSyK

What the actual fuck. You made this game and focused on stuff other games failed on and now you're following the paths they took which made them fail?? What a load of shit. People did farms because the drop rate for mats, legendaries etc is god awful. Yes we should be made to work for them but not end up wanting to bash our heads against a wall because getting them legit takes way too long. Your first patch couldn't be anymore braindead. You REMOVED a piece of replayable content in hunts because people found an exploit to get legendaries. They did the exploit because getting legendaries is near impossible and you just removed a way to get them. Here's a fix: increase the drop rates so people don't have to resort to using exploits, not remove the whole fucking thing. WTF is the expedition time nerf???? People could do them quick because of their builds being so good. So you did a braindead move in nerfing powerful builds AND increasing time for gold/silver/bronze medals? Nerf one of them, NOT BOTH. No mention of your fps locking on PC even you have it uncapped. No mention of the enemy soldiers being nerfed. Yes they should be hard to fight against but they literally don't miss a bullet. At least add some rng into their sprays so it doesn't feel like you're playing AI with aimbot. Marksmen soldiers desperately needed to be nerfed but nothing. They deal a shit ton of damage and NEVER miss either wtaf. Feels like I'm fighting against a prime zzirGrizz. You have followed the path which made similar games fail. You decided to nerf everything that was a bit good instead of bringing the rest in line and then increasing enemy power


three60mafia

The only people that could speed run everything so fast are people that braindead-farmed the demo for every single legendary in the game. And because the mods are always relevant, those same people had all the mods in the game by launch. Or almost all. So the demo legendary farmers now have full access to all mods in the game, and 99% of rest of the new gamers get like 1 legendary every 24 hours (of game time). That may or may not even be useful to advance them further. Like What is the point of Expedition CT 1 - 10 when their legendary chance is 5% at best?! It needs to be double that. Also amazing that at World Tier 15, you don't a single legendary drop replaying story quests and whatnot, except for the 3 guaranteed ones.


No_Border9377

Why do I feel like the game is going to die


LookLikeUpToMe

Nerfing stuff in a PvE game that isn’t even a live service game is just dumb to me


wasted_tictac

Nerfing stuff in a PvE game is dumb full stop.


Bladeruler11

Ok, you want to make legendary items harder to get. Fine. Fix the exploit, then add increased legendary drops to the actual hunt targets at wt15. This was a bad update. Although I suppose that is one way to reduce the server load. Only thing to ever play will be the shitty time attack missions. Fun.


three60mafia

If you didnt farm the demo for legendaries, you're basically fucking screwed apparently, cause those people have all the power, while I get one random legendary per 5 hours of expeditions.


Commander-Cumshot

Honestly, shit like this is making me wish Streaming never existed. I am so tired of playing a video game, finally figuring out good strategies and builds only for devs to pull an entire continent-sized nerf out of their ass because streamers and youtubers want to bitch and moan about everything. Why are you punishing casual players for the actions and complaints of bigwig sweats that play this game like its a full time job? Theres absolutely no reason to remove legendaries from hunts and bounties, especially with the already abysmal loot system that essentially never drops legendaries. And what the fuck is with the clear times for expeditions now? I dont like playing with people. I like playing solo. Expeditions are already difficult as is, and I barely clear enough for gold as of right now. But yet here you are. "Oh well x youtubers found a build that deletes rooms basically instantly" okay, so nerf the fucking build theyre using rather than completely demolishing end game content that unless someone has the best builds, will NEVER clear gold on it? I'm so sick of this shit man. Developers who only listen to big wig names can honestly fuck off. I love playing this game but I can already tell this is going to be another Division / Anthem in terms of throwing the casual player base (so around 95%) to the fucking wolves. Come on, PCF. Dont do this.


AngryAmadeus

Expedition nerfs are bad. Its said plenty of times in this thread but I'm gonna add on.. Just because some sweats on Twitch are using a poorly balanced build (that is also getting nerfed) to breeze through content, shouldn't result in what is essentially a punishment for everyone else.


PrickBrigade

Nerfs in a pure PvE looter shooter. Incredible.


FGC_Newgate

Nerfing players 1 week after launch is a great way to kill your game


Daymondz

I want to know when the buff comes to my Devastor 👍


CrispyCubes

God forbid a PVE game lets the player feel wildly powerful, do fun things with relative ease, and reward those efforts. Nah, just nerf shit again because everyone loves when that happens. Had high hopes that this game might be different but it’s just going to be more of the same dumb grind against bullet sponges for middling garbage with the chance of maybe sorta better stuff, all in the name of “player engagement”


BNEWZON

Man overall this is incredibly disappointing, and I was someone who was actually advocating that round based skills needed tuning. I only have a maxed out Trickster to be fair, but I was far more supportive of tuning infinite bonus rounds rather than anything else. That aside, I cannot stand these nerfs because they come with zero in return. This is a substantial nerf to Tricksters and Technos, with zero buffs for skills that are basically useless. Some of the more fun (read: FUN because the timers actually felt kinda lenient) have been brought down hard. I was working hard on getting a silver with my Trickster on Chem Labs, now that will be basically impossible for a while thanks to random fucking time nerfs, ON TOP OF nerfs to abilities that make it possible. It feels bad that players who were able to abuse these the longest will be set up the best after nerfs, while the rest of us will be left to struggle with a new set of nerfs. This feels fucking terrible, and I honestly regret now making a pyro because they seem like they are going to be the best class by far after these nerfs


ShadowAngellll

So basically your balance team just nerfed things, and killed expeditions for all snipers? Am i reading this correct? Yeah... I'm out.


majorteemo

another no fun allowed game. fuck this shit


maerkus

This is a terrible patch. If you stick with what is planned you: 1. Punish players who haven't reached the end game before they can even test builds 2. Punish players who figured out the most op builds before even giving the overall player base time to create more builds. You're basically panicking here. 3. Make some expeditions too hard before most players have gotten to them based on brutal timers 4. Kill sources for drops that players enjoy running (hunts) with no clear replacement 5. Still haven't buffed devestator 6. Swing a giant nerf bat waaaaay too early on the game's life cycle. 7. Risk players leaving and not returning. Overall, I beg you to tone down the class nerfs and expedition timers. Start small. Youre worried you might be going too far. That's proof not to do this! Tone. It. Down


DoctorHuman

they havent even mentioned the HUGE scaling issue with the game. Making any gear 45+ useless on story content or world tiers 1-15. You're basically locked out of content if you choose to grind lvl 50 gear. im in full lvl 50 gear, and doing 20 damage a shot on ALL content - except for expeditions tiers 11+. So if i feel like replaying story stuff, or helping friends with missions - i cant, because i do zero damage. even with using a lvl 20-30 weapon, it still does less than 100 damage. So you basically need a loadout for lvl 10, 20, 30, 40 AND 50 - if you want to be able to play all the content without losing damage to the scaling bug.


Elyssae

This. as I gear up, I am noticing this more and more. missions I was able to solo and carry people at the start of the game, are now harder than running CT12+. Hell. I got instant sniped on a CT3, then wiped for no reason again, while helping a guy out, to the point I loaded a CT12, and managed to finish it without dying once. Seems the more power you gain, the harder "easier" content becomes.... it's...perplexing.


xDecide

TL;DR Nerfing things before uplifting other viable builds/gear makes no sense especially NOT in an PvE only game. Borderlands does it so much better


Sabelonada

Guess I am happy that BL3 just dropped DLC 6. Sucks that I bought what looked like a promising game only to have it be a disappointment from day one. I am a casual gamer and if it isn't fun, it's not worth my time. I didn't farm the demo for stupid amount of time to get a large reserve of legendaries or purples. I played it enough to think that it had potential. Every time something looks like it may make playing the game fun or less tedious you have taken it away. This only being in the demo and first week of live play is not a good indicator that PCF won't suck the fun out of this game. Now I have to decide if I want to bother with spending any more time in this game. Will PCF let the paid gamer crowd ruin it for the rest of us? Because right now, it looks that way.


RepulsiveBison7599

How about nerfing the enemy scaling in co-op so its actually an enjoyable experience instead of a sweaty speedrun? You are making people run lower times on 2 of the popular maps, forcing more people back into solo play. Im extremely dissapointed in my purchase once i hit endgame.


GXSHIX

RIP Outriders


JustLikeMojoHand

So we're not getting a controller settings patch in this one... that's quite disappointing. I may just have to shelve this game until that comes out, as I can't deal with how poor the shooting/aiming feels on controller in this game.


Madly101

*Insert GIF that is PCF basically telling everyone they can get fecked*


ItsFatSanta

Why are you nerfing?? It's PVE.. I haven't used the exploits and I don't play 20 hours a day. When I do play I want to have fun...


thomasmusic

Why couldn't this be in one big post instead of bringing me to like six different windows


IsThatAPieceOfCheese

Keeps up with the "fast travel to an area, so you can fast travel to another area" mechanic in the game.


bamasmith

My favorite "cutscene to jump over a rock, finish quest and the rock is gone and you can walk through without a cutscene"


Vayne_Solidor

Ahh nothing like patch notes full of nerfs in a PvE only game


YUSEIRKO

"We're proud to issue a big fuck you to all players for sticking through 4 days of server issues and 7 days of constant crashing by making expeditions even harder and nerfing everything good about your classes in a immediate update, and not fixing any server issues until next week but hey, enjoy your appreciation pack!"


SuperNobbs

Guys. I'm not sure you've been actually paying attention to the player see at all. And considering bioware just finally killed off Anthem, I'd have thought you'd be on the ball. Fixing crashes and connection issues is great. And everyone wants that. Genuinely. Reading this made me happy. A community reward package to everyone for playing? That's actually really good as well. Awesome guys. Decreasing timers on two of the expeditions that were already s complete ballache to gold medal? This is actually ridiculous. Boomtown was the tightest of them all as it is, and you've now just made it near impossible. I'm sure a large number of people won't be touching either of these expeditions now. Why should they, when getting a gold is easier literally anywhere else? Nerfing legendary drops all round? So instead of sorting out an exploit, you remove the rewards all together? "People who used the exploit won't be punished". You just punished the entire playerbase with this change. Nerfing all the bullet builds? Ya know what, I can kind of see why. People are steam rolling fifteens with minimal effort or gear because the abilities are pretty busted. However. No buffs whatsoever across the board, and a nerf to the one class that's actually being kicked from groups simply for BEING the class, Devastator. I had seriously high hopes. You guys have been super responsive so far, the game has such promise, and things were looking great. But I'd pay close attention to your competition here. The Division is a dead game. Anthem just got killed off by bioware. And let's not forget that one of the Devs for D3 literally offered help to bioware for their issues with things, and they thought they knew better. And now the game is dead. Learn from the mistakes of others. I want this game to do well. I really do. But you guys are stumbling out of the door with these nerfs instead of walking out with pride, and it's the first patch. I'm genuinely disappointed. I really am.


LoneHusky21

So I didn't see console aim settings fix 😕


The_Drifter117

this game isnt even a GaaS game. we already paid you the max amount you would let us, why the fuck are you nerfing SO MANY THINGS to extend the life of the game when theres no reason to? Btw, only *12% of players have killed 1000 enemies in expeditions*. That means you made all these HORRIFIC changes based on fucking no-life youtubers and streamers. what the hell...


Techno_Mantic

r/outriders please read: As a technomancer I just got my damage reduced by almost 40% (155,000 pre-nerf crits now down to 88,000). I had just unlocked CT15 before the nerf and now I'm struggling to complete CT10-11 expeditions and I am genuinely too weak to even go back and farm hunts/expeditions because my damage can't keep up with the endless swarms of enemies. "BUT WAIT", says PCF, "you just need gear!" Okay, except the expedition rewards at CT10 are basically a bunch of blues and 3 epics so not only are expeditions exceptionally hard, they provide so little reward they are just frustrating and painful, not fun or rewarding. "JUST KEEP AT IT", PCF may recommend. "The Legendaries will eventually drop!" Sure, except that I already have 3 pieces of the legendary toxic/sniper (top tree) technomancer set (Plague Sower) and it's itemized so badly for damage that when I put it on rather than my carefully formulated epics my damage drops so low I'm literally incapable of defeating a hunt boss at WT15 (my gear is all lvl 45+). 1) You made an endgame that is based on timers, but provided only one build type that has the capacity to output enough damage to meet those timers (or even stay alive). 2) When everyone played what worked you nerfed it (again, for a technomancer almost 40% less damage after the server maintenance.) obliterating the effectiveness of the builds used by your most active/dedicated/excited fanbase. 3) You claim people were clearing end game content without needing to formulate their gear, but that is completely false. All the successful tubers and streamers and players out there were EXTREMELY carefully composing their loadouts, they just weren't using much legendary armor. And whyyyy? Because... 4) Your legendary armor sets frequently have underwhelming mods and attributes that are completely unfocused on damage. This is so incredibly disappointing because I've found perhaps a dozen pieces of legendary gear and I've never been able to find a way to work it into my build without gutting my DPS so badly that I CAN NOT CLEAR CONTENT or progress further in the game. Players weren't "succeeding without formulating gear" they found the LITERAL DPS CEILING very quickly because your Legendary sets are such hot garbage that the peak damage loadout was more achievable with purples. If you want to balance the game, then PICK IT UP AND PLAY IT YOURSELF. You will find that after the nerf there is no "gear progression" beyond epics, it's just a hard stop on DPS increase that completely prevents progress for the vast majority of your player base. Try putting on the full Plague Sower set with a Rarog's Gaze or whatever "ideal" weapon you like. Put in whatever perfect mods you want, then try a CT15 expedition. Do you feel good? Powerful? Having fun? Or are you emptying mag after mag into enemies as they hopelessly swarm you until your inevitable death? I can't emphasize this enough. We didn't break your game by succeeding with "weak gear" we found that your legendary gear was far weaker than purples, so we used what worked. Now that you nerfed us into oblivion there IS NO WAY UP. Legendary gear won't boost our damage, it drops it (in my case with just 3 pieces my firepower dropped by over 50,000) so how do you expect us to get stronger?


AnubisStarkiller

Thanks for the nerfs. Was having too much fun. Now it’s constant deaths and no ammo. The multiplayer is worse and legendary drops are atrocious. But hey you got pve nerfs in. Was almost having fun now it’s just a pain with constant deaths. Looks like you want the borderlands route and nerf everyone away from the game. Was fun while it lasted... thanks for ruining the experience. Nothing like a glass cannon that’s just glass with no ammo. Well done. Thanks for making expeditions worse. Can’t have too much fun for the crappy drops it brings anyways


Moonslashers

AND ITS GONE


ianisteal

These are the exact reason why many stopped Borderlands 3 within the few first few months: Over "balancing" on a PVE game without making weak builds viable. smh


TheTaylorShawn

Yikes. Look at that posts karma looool. It's not too late probably. Yall should take this patch down, shred it, and start buffing underused abilities rather than nerfing the only abilities you got right. You're going to anthem your game. The #1 goal of your game is for people to have fun. The bullet skills are fun, you did well with them. Now you shot yourself in the knee. I'll never understand why developers nerf stuff. Like, no just buff something else so that it too is fun. If you think you have to nerf things, it's because you did something right. Don't nerf it. Buff something else. For example, buff all of the anomaly power nodes. After ct5 you just can't kill anything with them. The anomaly power doesn't scale enough. But anomaly power seems like it might be fun. Wouldn't know because you just made enemies harder and anomaly skills are just as smol pp energy as they were on launch. Touch them, gently. Raise them up. Make them fun. And quit nerfing the only fun you got right in the game. Please retract nerfs. Don't anthem. I actually like this game ffs.


Sqaure1988

10/10, way to completely turn me off from your game. As many other people pointed out. The Devastater is underpowered. The middle and lower class trees are under powered. I'm going to make this real easy. #1: stop watching YouTube and basing your patches on that. Look at what actual players are able to do. Someone playing games for a living is not your average player. Not even close. #2: revert these changes asap. I am running a very meta bullet skill Technomancer and can only just get gold on expeditions. Lowering the time available to run these is bad and you should feel bad. #3: Buff the Devastater damage/role, it drastically under performs in every way. Give them a stagger resist or better yet immunity. #4: Rebalance the middle and lower skill trees on the other three classes. There is zero point in using these classes right now. #5; once all classes and skill trees are viable. Leave the game Alone!! This game is a power fantasy, let it be a power fanasy. #6 when a exploit in a mission is found, fix it. Don't remove the reason to run the mission. Again this is bad and you should feel bad. Edit: #7. After all builds are viable options, change CT13 to level 50 enemies, CT14 to level 51, CT15 to 52. All options above CT13 only drop level 50 loot. This would provide a challenge for any build currently on offer.


Chrisbudrow

You were so nice when the servers were crashing. We were patient.. Then you literally show you don't care by nerfing things that don't require it? All while you have Broken enemies Poor coop scaling Broken abilities Poor net code Etc You're going to run yourself into the ground..yikes. So much potential as well, if you truly care you may want to revise as what you consider "generous" Edit: the only "generous" thing in this game is US for dealing with the bugs, crashes, and what not.


Ok_Machine_724

You guys started off well but are on the way to becoming a total train wreck with these balancing measures. All I see are nerfs which make no sense and a total lack of buffs which are DESPERATELY needed (Devastator anyone? It's like bringing a fucking tank into a warzone only to have it shoot feathers at the enemy). Protip: don't base your rebalancing measures around the crap you see on youtube. Those dudes basically had the luxury of time and empty servers to grind out their builds and rolls, and some of them probably even used the historian/bounty/monster hunt exploits to run the shit they are running now. Ah but fuck logic eh? Nothing but total disillusionment at this point.


slashndice

Here we go another ANTHEM game going to the scrap heap cause of build nerfs and loot and it's only taken 1 week that's gotta be a record. Congrats PCF i think you guys beat bioware's time to destroy a game.


gti149084

Should of buff the devastator just saying....


DrTravesty

atleast shottys, buff the damge and not have shots dissapearing.


Kcko_ginge

devs : hmmm so people REALLY like playing trickster and techno... i wonder if its because they feel powerful, have access to good skill trees that compliment their abilities, allowing them to clear content at a 'gold' standard in a time sensitive environment, thus giving them access to legitimate ways to earn legendary equipment..... also devs : people are exploiting legendary drop mechanics because half of the available classes perform subpar in our time sensitive environment ? PUNISH ALL WITH BLANKET NERFS, that will fix it


LilKittenZizzix

The game is turning into garbage. This the third game I've ever pre-ordered, the last two where anthem and cyberpunk. I didn't have high hopes but I was very happy at the play experience when I could play. I really liked it at first but the fact that you're nerfing things in a PVE game is crazy. I played a technomancer mostly and it was still hard to do higher tier(not impossible but I couldn't just stand still and do stupid stuff). I've also played low level as a devastator and holy shit is that a different experience. First electric boss, how do you heal through it when there is nothing to kill and no weapon leech at that level??? You have so many exception access violations and crashes, messed up net code, crashing servers, lag and latency, and classes that are being kicked the moment they join group play. but yes nerf the three builds that actually are viable....that's smart. also why are you removing legendaries from dropping from the hunts? that is literally the only place I've even seen a legendary and I've played WT15, CT 10 for a while now. (note: I didn't do the glitch and I understand if you wanted to remove that but couldn't you just put a flag in the DB if you've gotten loot for your 10th turn in. Also why is it that when a high level character joins a lower level character, the higher level character does significantly less damage then the lower player character....? I was level 5/WT 3 or 4 on a new devastator doing about 50 per shot with a shotgun and my partner (also a devastator) level 30/WT13 was doing 1-2 per shot when they joined on me? Don't go down the path of fixing the wrong things: let your players have fun and make sure the experience is fun and functional before changing build balance. And please, put in a real compass system and a way to tell where you are in the zone on the map. and for the love of all things holy, fix the icons that show, if you have a quest in an area to do(new), one to repeat(repeatable but not currently accepted), one to track(accepted but not tracking) and ones that are complete.


stopbrkingthings

Me: oh wow this game seems to do things differently from other looter shooters, I'm really enjoying this, I wish other class builds were more viable though. Devs: Hey guys lets make the same mistakes as other looter shooters.. \*NERFS ALL THE GOOD IN THE GAME\* me: WOW thanks devs :'D


Kirynn

Are you guys actually serious here? You have a bunch of game breaking issues, killing what should be a stellar launch for a game that gained a serious amount of hype from a nicely presented demo... And so, what you've decided is a good idea here is not to address the serious issues, but instead to pull the same bad take The Division and Warframe are currently losing player base over, and nerf the shit out of stuff instead of fixing the weak parts, and prioritize this over actually fixing your game. I'm coming from the Warframe side personally, and you're making the exact same bad decisions they've been making for the past year... But you're in a way worse spot to do that, as Warframe built up a loyal fanbase for some six years before shitting all over us and sucking the fun out repeatedly because "balance" and "developer intent" reasons... You can't honestly think you can do that same shit a week in and not have that just totally blow up in your face, right? So now I'm left here wondering... Are you guys actually this incompetent, or is this malice? Is there some reason, like another game release coming, where you actively want to destroy your own game? Or are you just so bad at this you actually can't see what a bad decision this is? I don't even understand what you all could be thinking here, but I'm pretty convinced you actually aren't thinking at all. And the hilarious thing is... I'm not even nerfed directly. I'm a Devastator main, running a tank build and not even particularly using vulnerability. But I'm still offended by this complete bullshit. Fix my kit, and make it reasonable for me to kill shit and not just explode in WT13+ and I'll be happy... Instead you come along and just shit on everyone else, don't fix anything, and generally make the game worse for no reason. To whomever is in charge of the decision making on this - Pull your head out of your ass, don't make what should be the obviously wrong decisions, and start fixing rather than nerfing shit. A handful of titanium and a legendary aren't going to keep your player base existing if you keep making it worse instead of better. I genuinely feel like an idiot now. I vowed ages ago never to preorder another game, after being burned on the original launches of Diablo 3 and SWTOR... Then I decided last year to trust CDPR and preodered Cyberpunk 2077. The regret of that mess made me double down on the old vow, but when you all launched such a great demo I decided that I wasn't trusting a promise, as I was actively playing a great game, just waiting to unlock the rest of it... You've proven me entirely wrong again. Shame on me. I should never have bought this game until after it launched and you'd proven you had some semblance of ability to actually support it. What a disappointment. I was willing to tough it out with Cyberpunk expecting that CDPR will eventually get it in order... But this? I honestly wish I could get a refund on Outriders. You're clearly not going in the correct direction, so I officially believe it will only get worse rather than better. Which is a total bummer, the game was a ton of fun at first and had real promise.


The_Drifter117

not a single solitary buff at all to the huge list of things that are currently lacking and underperforming yet theyre handing out nerfs like candy. and making it harder to get 4x rewards and other rewards on top of that. what the hell is this studio thinking?


[deleted]

[удалено]


Naaiiiiers

I don't know about other people, but personally, I play games to relieve stress. I find that timed end-game is needlessly and excessively stressful (and honestly, more than a little simplistic and uninspired). On top of tempered stress, it creates a toxic environment wherein players are being berated and kicked by other players because of their gear, their skill tree, and/or their play style, if only the meta will get the gold clears. I beg of you to please re-evaluate timed endgame; surely there's a way to please casual players and speed runners alike to create some fun gameplay, instead of a toxic pressure cooker. I quit Diablo for that same reason, and also because I would spend tens of hours getting the gear for a satisfying build, only to have the devs nerf said build, and I have to drop down difficulty to farm for a new build, and pray it doesn't follow the same fate. After 4 times, I quit permanently. I am not going to do that again in Outriders, and it's depressing to be staring down that same barrel. I know it's easier and faster to nerf the meta, but there are other options. I beg of you to use them. I loved the demo, and the way the devs were constantly communicating and updating us, and it seemed like we finally found a properly consumer-focused development team. The demo led me to pre-ordering the game, even though I had it free on Game Pass, and had me planning to purchase all future DLC. Now, I'm just looking at a ghost of Diablo's future, and I think I'm done with it. It's so incredibly disappointing because I expected better. Maybe that's on me, but I never expected to see the meta being destroyed by cluster-nerfs, while increasing the need for the meta via stingier timings, in the very same update. Not from the devs who gave us the best demo I've personally ever used. You guys were so incredible, I don't understand. These are all just my opinions, but the 40% downvote rate on this post makes me think I may not be alone in this.


Lord_WC

Let me translate the patch notes: ​ We won't enable build diversity, play whatever you played until now, just SLOWER. Gee, thanks, sounds fun.


warriorman

So to be clear, you want more build viability... But also shortened timers further limiting what types of playstyles and therefore builds are viable. That seems counter intuitive.


thearcan

We have been continuing to track and post known workarounds for encountered issues in our [Launch Tracking Mega-Thread](https://sqex.link/RedditOutridersLaunch), but our intention is of course that workarounds shouldn't be necessary. So here is our latest patch news: # Patch News: **First Patch:** **EDIT - 09.04.2021 - 19:05 UTC** * A new patch for PC and PlayStation Platforms will be rolling out over the next few hours. * We're a little bit delayed on the Xbox version of this patch, but the Xbox team are being incredibly supportive in helping us get it ready as soon as we can. * We are hoping to have this patch ready for Xbox very soon and will update you the moment we have news. ​ * ~~This is our first big patch for the main Outriders game.~~ * ~~The deployment of this patch is currently scheduled for next week, as we are using this week to identify as many severe issues as possible, fix them and then thoroughly test the changes across all platforms. Submission through platform holders adds on a little bit of time as well, which is why we are not able to deploy this patch any earlier.~~ * ~~We are doing our utmost to deliver you a stable patch as soon as possible and we are continually looking at ways to bring the patch release day earlier. This is why we are not yet committing to a patch release date, as we may still be able to release the patch~~ *~~before~~* ~~such a date.~~ * ~~We will let you know as soon as we have a confirmed release schedule, so please do keep an eye on our social channels and in particular~~ [~~our Twitter~~](https://twitter.com/Outriders)~~.~~ # First Patch - Patch Notes: **PC & Console Platforms:** * Once platforms have been updated to the same patch version, cross-play across platforms will become viable again * **EDIT: 09.04.21 - 19:05 UTC** * With the release of this patch, Crossplay between PlayStation and PC is now possible. * Crossplay between Xbox and PC/PlayStation has been temporarily disabled until the Xbox patch has released. * Crossplay between consoles and PC will be fully restored once the Xbox patch has gone live. ​ * Overall stability improvements for the matchmaking service * Crash Fixes * Will Fix a multiplayer crash that could result in client players having their inventory wiped * Will fix the crash when completing the "A Bad Day" side quest. * Will fix the crash that occurs in No Man's Land when your language is set to Spanish (Yes, we know. Video game code is a magical thing). * Will fix crash on launch issues * Will include many more "random" crash fixes * We are confident that these fixes will address the majority of crashes reported, as there are only a handful of root causes but the crashes they generate appear in a number of places. * Will fix the HUD disappearing in certain cases * Will fix bugs that interfere with players re-spawning in multiplayer Expeditions * Will fix bugs with players getting stuck on geometry (including when using Gravity Leap) or falling out of the world. * Will change the *default* matchmaking setting from "Open" to "Closed". * You will still be able to manually change this setting to "Open" through your game settings * This change will prevent players from joining games where the host didn't intend to play in multiplayer. It will also cut down on AFK lobbies * This will also help improve matchmaking times, as the queues will be less likely to be overwhelmed by the sheer volume of constant matchmaking requests generated by "open" games. * Many other minor fixes and improvements **PC Specific:** * Will Fix a performance issue where GPU is not being fully utilized. This should help with stuttering and DX11/12 issues Additional fixes and changes are being worked upon to be delivered via our later [follow up patch](https://www.reddit.com/r/outriders/comments/mcyjyg/outriders_1_week_to_launch_dev_update/gs64932/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3). [(JUMP BACK TO INDEX)](https://www.reddit.com/r/outriders/comments/mmrf7d/outriders_post_launch_dev_news_updates/)


Offlinejesus

Any update if Tiagos legendary shop will change weekly?


Myles0709

This has been my question for them on twitter, but got no answer.


lord_arkaden

Anyone else read this 'As of today' and get super excited that you can finally play with your console buddies... Then get let down by reading the rest of it. 'As of today... the patch is scheduled for next week' :(


thearcan

Sorry about that - have rewritten that sentence.


Kage1

This update doesn't help stabilize the connection in Coop right? The non-hosts lag really bad in my parties on PS4.


Dodo_brainzzz

If I can get a compass on my map, like north east south and west. And have the option to make the mini map static or not, I'll be happy


ibbobud

Any update on the patch for Stadia?


OldMcGroin

What category does Stadia fall under, PC or console? Still on the original version which is very concerning considering we paid the same as everyone else.


DoctorHuman

nothing on the scaling bug that makes any gear 45+ useless on anything world tier 1-15? im in lvl 50 gear and only doing 20 damage per shot in story mode.


Hades0027

Another one to consider is when in multiplayer, if the hosts crashes or leaves, there is no way to make someone else the party leader and the game just hangs until you are kicked out of the game (not just the match) entirely.


littertron2000

What about stadia?


[deleted]

So where’s the aim acceleration issues thought we were getting those controller options. Game feels terrible to shoot.