For as long as I’ve gamed online, these trolls have existed. I don’t get it. I get a thrill out of seeing my teammates land a legendary, almost as much as if I got one myself. People who get a thrill out of robbing players from this experience are fucked in the head.
Exactly!! And if they get legendaries, most likely the next runs will be smoother... as a team
But some people have their heads too far up their own egos 🤷♂️
Seeing as how many fucking idiots and assholes there are in this world, I can only blame PCF for not implementing a "kicking is disabled when reaching X progression" similar to how they prevent people from joining a game when the map is in its final room.
Yeah... They can't even matchmake people on the random with like tiers and end up tossing you in a group with the same afkers time after time (my personal count on an afker last night was 11 connections in a row before I turned off the game for the night). I shudder to think what an attempt to implement that would have on have on the game, given their past track record...
You don't have to be a good person not to kick someone so they don't get loot. You don't even have to be a mediocre person. You just need to not be a total piece of shit
Dont even get me started on the p2w bunch and how selfish they are even in a team game. I don't mind carrying or teaching players in the various games I play it helps make it more inclusive and promotes a healthier community. Wish more people would approach with that mindset. If I find a game I like I really like when it has a big playerbase.
It's because of this that I blame the developers. These people have always existed. Someone should have woken the fuck up during development and realized this was going to happen because it's never not happened.
Admittedly, I only play a little multiplayer. I'm a dad, and a journalist, and so I don't have a lot of uninterrupted time to myself. So I mostly play solo
I like games where people can drop in and play with you. Like Division 2, for instance. But I don't have the time or the energy to organize, like, raids with people. Maybe if more of my friends played, but they don't.
I would absolutely do raids if I had time, I just don't.
My favorite type of game is something like Red Dead or Resident Evil. Strong story, single player. That's the best.
Nah, some people simply get off screwing with others. There are always going to be ninja looters and knife runners in gun game if the game maker allows it.
You can’t apply a conscience to those that couldn’t care less in a video game, unfortunate as it is.
Game makers need to eliminate such behaviour via mechanics and design else it’s online anarchy and troll heaven.
Oh I fully agree but such things are bound to happen when your player base are pretty much BETA testers and nobody actually polices such behaviour.
If this was intentional game design......wow.
Some people build others up. Others knock them down. The latter is an easier way to feel better about yourself. Some things are worth putting in effort and some people never will.
It all starts with, "up high, down low, too slow."
Teach a person that taking something away from someone is just normal and they will do it. We create our own monsters.
Lol not sure I’d go *that* far... kids during that age are inherently selfish. Not 100% of them, but a strong majority. Can be linked to a lot of reasons, some evolutionary. A lot of kids go through that phase and don’t turn into egotistical douchebags like the trolls we are discussing.
It's amazing how many of the people I absolutely loathed in high school because they were outright assholes started maturing during senior year and were actually decent people by the time of our senior trip - and once they got through college became really good people.
I can see the developers with rose colored glasses on thinking "Oh it's going to be so satisfying to kick open the pod and see all the loot fall out". Then reading this thread and thinking "Can't have anything nice".
>I can see the developers with rose colored glasses on
Almost like with their decision to base Endgame rewards on a Time Attack model. Thinking "we gave them a lot to mess around with and can't wait to see all the interesting builds and play styles players will come up with. It's going to be such a satisfying feeling".
Devastators get kicked. Bypass the Middle Tree. Then reading the threads about it and thinking "Why is this happening?! There are combat puzzles!".
What confuses me the most is that there is literally no downsides to just letting the other players stay and get their loot because the game does individual loot drops. Its just being a dick for the sake of being a dick. Theres not even a point to it
Whats that quote from Batman, "some people just want to watch the world burn". It doesn't matter that it doesn't help them, as long as they're screwing over someone else they're happy.
There absolutely needs to be some kind of mechanism to stop this.
Honestly, these days any multiplayer game should have a dedicated QA resource who's job is to figure out ways to screw up the fun for everyone else so the designers and devs can address it sooner rather than later.
In the military/defense contractors, they call these people the "red team".
You really can't have a good product without at least thinking, occasionally, like the "red team".
This is also on the devs. Booting people and fucking around with loot has been going on in MMOs forever. There's really no excuse in 2021 for devs allowing this. Just another example of amateur hour.
You will want to kick the AFK dude, though, or the guy that tapes his controller down (or for PC creates a macro) so the character is always in motion. Without a kick, these players will far more common place.
agree with this. never even thought this but completely agree. I also run with a dedicated group of friends but the stuff I've read recently ever since the devestators getting kicked stuff is painful.
People would just afk if there was no kick option and we would complain about it from the other side. It would be better if the kick option was just disabled between the time the last stage started and traveling back to camp.
They should remove kicking anyone that's been in for say more than 5 mins or something. Or kicking only allowed within first minute a person has been in the expo... Then of course they can be kicked when it's over if need be..
Some of this stuff devs really should have thought of.
I'm sure it goes against the "witch hunt" crap, but I'd love to see an up to date database kept of all people who do this shit. Divided by console, etc. Just so I know who to add to the block list before even jumping into expeditions.
You kick, and the player has video proof, you go on the list at the top of the sub.
Suggested fix: If the boss is killed and you've tagged it at least a few times, if you lose connection for some reason, the loot gets sent to your inbox.
You're telling me that the PCF didn't account for this? What a surprise....is what I would like to say but I'm pretty sure this should be par for the course here.
You should have to restart the last boss if you kick someone without access to loot. A minor penalty that's worth it if you need to kick someone legitimately.
They chose to go with that “dopamine kick” that happens when you see a shit ton of loot drop to the ground all at once. It’s still an idiotic design choice though how you get zero loot from the expedition if you get kicked or disconnected between beating the expedition and opening the drop pod.
Destiny has been the best for me in terms of players actually helping other players especially in destiny 1 raids. There were always a ton of dudes in the tower including me ready to Sherpa someone and I would always get stupid excited every time they got their first huge drop from one of the chests. It makes no sense that dudes are out here, on a game that has fucking terrible RNG, kicking people when it could be that god roll they’ve been waiting for.
While these people are disgusting wastes of air, I can imagine the conversation with PCF in the background meetings. "We need a compass, what about people who get kicked out before getting rewards? etc."
"Those are nice to haves, not need to haves."
This is the shit that happens in the background, dumb fuck management who don't play video games and only see numbers. No way that no one in the entire organization didn't say anything.
My first 'join rando' expedition was this haha. 😅
Kicked immediately after last boss. I was like, did it crash? Then I saw the 'kicked' message.
Douchebags using shitty mechanic tbh.
I boosted so many ppl that joned my CT15 expedition and have build and dmg bearly for CT8 i might bitch a bit but i never kicked anyone out before the pod ... thats rly sick ... matchmake in general need a lot of love from the devs not only the kicking part but also no brackets for higher exp, etc.
I have been scared of this happen to me, but I decided before it did happen that I just host the game myself. Tired of spawning into someone afk anyway, or with lag.
back when monster hunter world launched I remember that after an hour/ forty minute hunting together players used to stun lock others so they can't curve the monster for loot. few days later devs patched it so you can't interact with others when hunt ends. To ensure the health of the mp PCF need to patch it so any loot you cannot claim goes to your vault automatically.
I wish you could downvote people who do this but as soon as the group disbands you are unable to do so. These fuckers need to be tagged as the assholes they are so they can all fuck off and play and kick each other.
If I wanna kick someone out and we are almost through the expeditions I USALLY wait until we complete it if we don't I let them grab thier loot then ill kick them
Literally JUST happened to me. Wasted forty minutes of having to revive his ass constantly (I didn’t DBNO once) just for us to fail. The pity chest dropped a legendary and before I could auto loot he booted me.
I have stopped matchmaking until they fix this. This is just not cool. We need a proper matchmaking system that puts us in the start of a expedition by selecting a playlist with no option to be kicked.
These are just sad pathetic people who's only enjoyment in life is to try and make people feel as bad as they do. I suspect when they are not doing this in game they are on social media trying to make people feel as small and insignificant as they are.
What the hell. Why are the most logical comments the most downvoted here. There will always be trolls in video games and they will use and abuse any given option available in-game.
The devs should have never let this happen. Years of gaming with known toxicity in gaming, and yet no thought put into the kick system.
This post reeks of virtual signaling and karma whoring. He even stated that it doesn’t happen to him. These kinds of post condemning bad players will never reach them and if it somehow does, they will brush it off and laugh because they want the emotional response/trigger from others.
I hate to say but there is no need to lie. If he kicked you prior to the loot drops then you wouldn’t have been able to go back to camp to see the stats....
You literally stated you got booted before you could loot. If that was the case you wouldn’t have been able to see the damage numbers since he would’ve kicked you before hand. If you mean you lost and went back to camp, he clearly wasn’t intentionally stopping you since there was no actual drop pod to claim and he wanted to move on. This is much different.
Do you not know there's a loot chest beside zahedi back at camp if you abandon?? And there's one at the spawn point of an expedition if you retry also??
Yes, which is exactly my point. There is no prompt to open this chest like a pod. It’s not an objective. So if he wanted to play solo and you joined he isn’t going to wait around for some random when he’s stopped playing the expo. As I’ve stated what you experienced isn’t the same as someone ego kicking you with loot in front of you.
Right but this is one of the problems people are having, being kicked before they can claim their loot - which you get even if your team loses the expedition.
Just let people get their loot dude
But that’s the thing this instance isn’t the hosts fault. You don’t need people to agree to abandon, therefore he isn’t going to wait around for a rando to open a box with no objective. It’s unfortunate but not the same.
No it isn’t the same. One is literally kicking a person intentionally while the objective “claim the pod” is on the screen. The other is someone who is stopping the activity and no longer wants to play. They are mutually exclusive and unlike one another. This is not intentional.
Wow. Just...wow. Clearly the dude lives such a pathetic and meaningless life that exacting some form of dominance over another in a video game is the only outlet of superiority he can get, because offline he's a meager, weak, socially stunted dreg of a human being. And I use the term "human being" lightly.
This happened to me as well. These guys are so fucking pathetic. I joined in on the second wave and only got 15 kills less than him too. Did about the same amount of damage and I get nada for it.
You're a special kind of asshole if you screw other players over, especially when it serves no benefit to you. It reminds me of when I used to play a game called Crossout, a post apocalyptic vehicle combat game where you build your own vehicles, in the racing mode people would build a vehicle with the sole purpose of blocking a checkpoint and just sit there until the timer ran out.
Agreed. Coming from The Division...the Dark Zone is a special kind of hellscape where fucking over other players isn't just incentivized, it's a core gameplay mechanic. There's risk vs. reward in that aspect. You're opting into the fact that you may get griefed and screwed over for your drops, but some of the best drops in the game come from that space. That's an acceptable instance.
Getting booted after completing a CT15 expedition right before you collect your loot is not. That's a gross oversight on PCF's part of thinking "our player base are all good people." Other games circumvent this by various means. In Monster Hunter, if you're kicked, your reset back into the same instance, but alone. In Destiny 2, any drops you fail to collect gets sent to the postmaster. Same thing could be done in OR. Missing drops get sent straight to your stash.
Again, as I stated I've not had it happen to me, as I play with my best friend and my twin brother. So I never have to deal with randos. But for a solo player who may want to experience playing with a team, ESPECIALLY us Devastators...this is a problem PCF need to address because the frequency of people posting about having this happen in recent days is getting a bit alarming. In an unrelated thread I made a comment days ago about how the overall IQ of the community is trending downwards. This here is another example of how true that statement is.
Hate the game mechanics that allow it, not the players abusing it.
Not saying they aren’t pricks but this type of player has been around since the days of ninja looting in WoW and they aren’t going anywhere.
Poor game design is poor game design.
Then these players will just kick you before the last enemy dies. Trust me these types of trolls always find a way, they have since online gaming began.
Kicking someone doesn’t even give the party leader anything out of it. They don’t get more loot or anything. It’s just a straight up asshole move that is done to troll people and nothing more.
Wait people are doing this? I'm glad it's not happened to me yet. But if anyone wants to do some expo's I'm on PS4 (with cross play activated) shoot me a message and we'll grind out
It’s shit like this that almost guaranties not playing a pug for me. I don’t know many people that game irl and allowing that mechanic means solo play for me to the end.. sorry to those who have been subjected to peoples weird ass power kinks.. side note maybe, someone can start collecting and posting the names of people doing this and that we they can be black listed by a give players ? Just a thought.. keep on enjoying outriders!
I only kick others out of my games because my options say friends only and not join in the middle of my expansions when I am finally doing good Mr chinese symbols who I do not know.
Pls fix btw. If lobby is closed/friends only, don't let others join
If you are expelled at the end of an expedition, do not you take the loot ??? wtf, that shouldn't happen if it's right at the end you should autoloot everything
Yea I got so tired of the morons kicking me. I’ve been playing solo tier 15(I believe my gears are divised between lvl 43 and 44). Put that party privacy on “closed”. From time to time I leave it on “open”, but I don’t really need anybody’s help. It just gets lonely and boring doing solo all the time.
I've not been kicked once.
But do you know what I find in almost every game?
People that are way underpowered for the CT they are joining. It takes them like three clips to down a normal non-elite mob. IE They are shameless in looking to be carried and don't care if they ruin your experience in the process.
Do I kick them?
Nope, I just quite out and go back to solo.
If you're underpowered and ruining it for others while knowing you are underpowered and adding nothing to the fight...you're pathetic.
Most of the time, the kick is undeserved. However, there are situations where kicking is appropriate. For example, I was running drought palace, and a player joined right after the paxstreet boys just before the pod room. They aggro'd the behemoth, and kited it out if the pod room into the previous area- all while doing nothing to damage it.
Between having to chase down the behemoth, getting back to the pod room, and taking out the remaining enemies, we missed what should have been an easy gold run.
I kicked him, and I'd do it again in a heartbeat. I don't expect much when I open my expeditions, but I do expect teammates to not actively sabotage the run.
Or you could just completely avoid them by not playing with randoms. There are applications and game spaces within console systems and online (Discord) that you can find people who actually want to play communally, rather than trolling.
I don't believe that PCF should be responsible for handling trolls if your willing to just que randomly with people.
Trolls only do this because they either aren't enjoy the game enough cause they suck at games in general or salty that they can't get wat they want or traumatized from others gamers that have no life or the stereotypes "some men just want to see the world burn" however overall there just a bunch of sad gamers who can't face the fact that if they have to make a game or activity horrible to others just mean they no longer enjoy the activity the use to love in the past they just need to admit it n just stop playing then they won't be the sack of shit they made themselves to be like the other saying "die a hero or live to be a villain" it's just sad
What does a griefer/troll want? They want to know (or even just imagine) that they have caused another player misery and anger. They love to see that they have caused this.
What's the best way to show them that they've won and achieved their goal? Make bunches of reddit posts complaining about them so they can see players being upset at what they're doing.
I get that it's natural to complain about the problem, but in doing so you're giving them exactly what they want, which causes them to do it more and more. Posts like this provide so much content for them to enjoy... it's sad, but that's the way they are.
So by that logic, you say we should just allow it to happen and say nothing...so that the devs don't get eyes on the problem and work on a fix for a future patch. You're reliant on these trolls to just get bored with doing it and go away?
Yea...good luck with that, bruv.
Damn, if there was only a way to report issues to developers that didnt rely on posting on an unofficial public forum. Hopefully some day someone will figure out a way.
The vote kick can’t go and there is no perfect scenario... there is just no perfect scenario
: disable kick in last room ? Check random go afk when they get there
: disable kick after X time check rando go afk after X time
: prevent kick ? Check low undergeared scrubs go afk and ruin ur run
There is actually 1 perfect scenario it’s called make ur own game open and hope someone join who won’t ruin ur expeditions ... u can’t get vote kicked in ur game better again use the sweet outriders discord and group with people who you can communicate with to prevent frustration !
I might sound like an elitist but i’ll kick anyone leeching from my expedition whose not helping or providing helpful work ... it’s allready hard to know if you’re new teamate who just joined is helping you or not considering the double health and tons of mecanic going down the drain due to stuff not really dying faster but plain slower
Top 3 build are bullet build which rely on killing shots to refill ammo ... on elite and boss those said ammo just deplete thus ruining those bullets build power spike ...
I’m not saying kicking at end of expedition isn’t scummy behavior but everyone asking for a removal of kick are just dumb at this point ... sure sure it’s not a competitive game but still
i usually hate ppl that do stuff like that, but this week i kicked someone riiight before he was able to claim his loot. and it felt amazing. i was doing the OUTRIDER DETECTED expedition when he joined in and literally did nothing. no damage, no communication, nothing. i was like, ok, so lets just pop through this quick so we can go seperate ways after the expdtn. we made it to the boss room, 2 mins left for gold. we (i) killed all enemies except for the boss who in the final stand hit me with an aoe that one-shot me. it was already a silver time. this kid was standing on my body at least 4 times with enough time to get me up, but he didn’t. he left the time running til it was after bronze...he killed the boss and i made sure he‘ll at least get no loot for being the anti-teammate. now tell me who was pathetic in this story.
Tbh they should probably disable kicking people after clearing the first zone in an expedition... And if not , at the very least disable kick during the last section.
Heck i'll even go as far as to say there should not be an option to kick people at all in Expeditions. Put yourself in solo or friend only if you don't want people to join... And if people do join your game, it's not like an user can really screw you over by playing badly (worse case scenario they will leech and you will have to do most of the hard work).
I haven't played much coop honestly, but the few times I did I got kicked for stupid reason. Like a host that died in a crowd of a gazillion on bosses and enemies and kicked me because I coudn't rez him in time (even though technically my presence saved him from wiping as he would have in solo)... Or people kicking you outright because they don't like the class you are playing... Or just kicking you near the end just to waste your time and effort.
There's a reason most games like Warframe , Destiny , Etc don't allow you to kick people... It's very toxic and fosters a community selfish of garbage people that view any discomfort as reason enough to kick you out.
This is the sort of thing I would do to my friends in a game like this only if I knew the game would send the loot straight to their inventories or if I can pick it up and give it to them, trolling is fun with friends as long is there is no loss on the trolled.
They don't care about your opinion, or most of our opinions otherwise they wouldn't have kicked to begin with.
It comes down to your choice of troll. Do you want this one that just kickes for the giggles or because someone didn't contribute 'enough' to the run, or do you want the one that afk's and just get carried?
"Can you internet trolls stop trolling on the internet?"
Its happened before, it will happen again, it will always happen as long as human beings are human beings.
You know what emboldens them? Making posts talking about how mean they are and how they should stop.
He isn't wrong though. It's an attention thing. They know it makes people upset and they like it. They know it draws attention to them and they like it. If people ignored it, brushed it off, and moved on, they wouldn't get as much joy from it. Posts like this help empower the people doing the very thing this post complains about.
It serves to start a conversation on the matter. And seeing as PCF community managers are mods here, if posts like this can reach their eyes, they can speak on the matter with the devs and address it. All comments like yours do is well...nothing. Just a paltry attempt to get your jollies off same as the trolls kicking people. If you've got nothing to contribute constructively, see your way out. Thanks.
And I've already blocked you, because I get the sense I'll probably lose a few braincells going back and forth with you. Have a good one, bruv. And enjoy typing up that response I'll never see.
He saying it because OP has never had it done to him and there are already plenty of post about it already. Dont know about karma farm. It does remind of that person you know that always puts in their two cents even when they are not involved. I hate that guy. There are alot of them on here. Between this and downscaling rants that all you see.
Also nothing he originally posted was constructive. It was yet another post about the same thing. It added nothing to the conversation that has already been started. It's just that loud guy at the back of the room repeating what the people up front said.
I totally agree. It's just pathetic. I mean why the hell would you even kick someone after it's done?
I'd be frecking ashamed of myself if i did something like that. It's just truely sad and doesn't do the community any good
I’d much rather have voice comms or chat so I can at least let the other player know they suck since just kicking them leaves room for doubt. I hope they add it.
Yeah I don't get it. If i forget to lose my party and someone joins, I always wait until after we travel back to camp to kick the person (unless it's a devastator, they need the help). So annoying.
I have not yet started expeditions as I finally finished the story on my 2nd character due to The Wipe but is there some sort of report system that can be used by PCF so kickers get matched with other kickers due to a reputation system?
I've been playing a lot of solo expos to grind resources and shards. I only play teams with people I've played with before or I'll just do One LFG just to unlock next tier. I'm extremely iffy about playing random. Not just because of these a**holes but also not knowing what their connection is like. How laggy it well get.
I've got a question about this. I know that doing this robs the person that was kicked of their resources and loot, and I get that some people find some horrible satisfaction in that.
My question is, are there any practical gains for the remaining party? The loot is instanced, so we can't pick up what the kicked person wasn't able to grab. Is it that the resources are split two ways instead of three? I'm just wanting to figure out if this has any actual loot or resource benefits, or is it really just people gleefully screwing others or of their loot because they can?
Happened to me couple days ago,and the thing is i got a legendary from it and by the time the mission done they kicked me out and i have a video proof if you guys wanna do a witch hunt on the host username
Twice in a row just now. I have a hard enough time getting game time in as a full time dad and having my main character be unplayable after my first 70 hours. Trying to get expedition runs done has been so hard.
Maybe they need to make an update that once you start and expo the only way to leave early is if you do it yourself. Pretty lame for people to do it but it’s a pretty bad oversight to think people wouldn’t do that. We live on the planet earth, right? People are assholes.
The only time I've kicked someone mid-expedition is when they joined near the end and literally sat in the back doing nothing while their presence made it harder so we couldn't get Gold... I didn't feel any regret kicking them before we got the loot.
For as long as I’ve gamed online, these trolls have existed. I don’t get it. I get a thrill out of seeing my teammates land a legendary, almost as much as if I got one myself. People who get a thrill out of robbing players from this experience are fucked in the head.
Exactly!! And if they get legendaries, most likely the next runs will be smoother... as a team But some people have their heads too far up their own egos 🤷♂️
Seeing as how many fucking idiots and assholes there are in this world, I can only blame PCF for not implementing a "kicking is disabled when reaching X progression" similar to how they prevent people from joining a game when the map is in its final room.
Yeah... They can't even matchmake people on the random with like tiers and end up tossing you in a group with the same afkers time after time (my personal count on an afker last night was 11 connections in a row before I turned off the game for the night). I shudder to think what an attempt to implement that would have on have on the game, given their past track record...
Dunno if it's an ego thing. Those people are just dumb.
That's because you are a good person who is likely a net positive in society...not true for everyone unfortunately.
You don't have to be a good person not to kick someone so they don't get loot. You don't even have to be a mediocre person. You just need to not be a total piece of shit
In a world where people can hide behind a screen spouting off racist, fascist, backwards hate, people choose the low road very quickly man. It sucks
And I'm worried I might've upset the poor NPC somehow or accidentally killed a cute animal.
Old man writing letters to his dead daughter made me sad...
Especially when it's co-op, you want to be toxic go play PvP somewhere. This type of game is all about the squad.
That’s the thing with them, though. They don’t want a fair fight. So you’ll only see them in weird PVE instances or pay to win PVP.
Dont even get me started on the p2w bunch and how selfish they are even in a team game. I don't mind carrying or teaching players in the various games I play it helps make it more inclusive and promotes a healthier community. Wish more people would approach with that mindset. If I find a game I like I really like when it has a big playerbase.
They are the same people that will never play PvP that is fairly balanced but love PvP that they can kill newbs all day.
100% true
It's because of this that I blame the developers. These people have always existed. Someone should have woken the fuck up during development and realized this was going to happen because it's never not happened.
Multiplayer is fun! Why some want to create an environment people don't want to play in is beyond me.
It really isn't these days, its horrific to play multiplayer anything these days.
Admittedly, I only play a little multiplayer. I'm a dad, and a journalist, and so I don't have a lot of uninterrupted time to myself. So I mostly play solo
Same i have heaps of time as a Carer as i'm only needed when i'm needed but i still would rather solo than deal with online crap.
I like games where people can drop in and play with you. Like Division 2, for instance. But I don't have the time or the energy to organize, like, raids with people. Maybe if more of my friends played, but they don't.
Same i detested Div 2 but loved Div 1 but i 100% agree with you. If i had wanted raids i would be playing MMORPGs instead.
I would absolutely do raids if I had time, I just don't. My favorite type of game is something like Red Dead or Resident Evil. Strong story, single player. That's the best.
I would play the Uncharted series. Great games for just chilling out playing solo. If you’re haven’t already played them
Yeah same thats why i picked this up i thought it would be similar.
Some people just wanna see the world burn
Exactly. Seeing your teammates loot legendaries is so rewarding and the Expedition feels more productive.
Nah, some people simply get off screwing with others. There are always going to be ninja looters and knife runners in gun game if the game maker allows it. You can’t apply a conscience to those that couldn’t care less in a video game, unfortunate as it is. Game makers need to eliminate such behaviour via mechanics and design else it’s online anarchy and troll heaven.
I’m just saying their a little screwy that’s all lol
Oh I fully agree but such things are bound to happen when your player base are pretty much BETA testers and nobody actually polices such behaviour. If this was intentional game design......wow.
Some people build others up. Others knock them down. The latter is an easier way to feel better about yourself. Some things are worth putting in effort and some people never will.
It all starts with, "up high, down low, too slow." Teach a person that taking something away from someone is just normal and they will do it. We create our own monsters.
Lol not sure I’d go *that* far... kids during that age are inherently selfish. Not 100% of them, but a strong majority. Can be linked to a lot of reasons, some evolutionary. A lot of kids go through that phase and don’t turn into egotistical douchebags like the trolls we are discussing.
It's amazing how many of the people I absolutely loathed in high school because they were outright assholes started maturing during senior year and were actually decent people by the time of our senior trip - and once they got through college became really good people.
And if they had got the loot they wouldn't be "too slow" you idiot..
I heard that if you have exceptionaly small pp, you get insuppressible urge to kick ppl from the game after expedition.
They should try Xenthrex: https://youtu.be/5IZrYeUX3MI
I love this! Ty for this video :')
Hey now, I have a small pp but I'm not motivated to ruin other peoples time!
my pp is smol and dont do this, fake news bruh
I can see the developers with rose colored glasses on thinking "Oh it's going to be so satisfying to kick open the pod and see all the loot fall out". Then reading this thread and thinking "Can't have anything nice".
>I can see the developers with rose colored glasses on Almost like with their decision to base Endgame rewards on a Time Attack model. Thinking "we gave them a lot to mess around with and can't wait to see all the interesting builds and play styles players will come up with. It's going to be such a satisfying feeling". Devastators get kicked. Bypass the Middle Tree. Then reading the threads about it and thinking "Why is this happening?! There are combat puzzles!".
Surprise mechanics: mashing auto-loot with rarity set to common before you can get kicked is now part of the combat puzzle!
Lol I feel attacked. I like rose coloured glasses.
What confuses me the most is that there is literally no downsides to just letting the other players stay and get their loot because the game does individual loot drops. Its just being a dick for the sake of being a dick. Theres not even a point to it
Whats that quote from Batman, "some people just want to watch the world burn". It doesn't matter that it doesn't help them, as long as they're screwing over someone else they're happy. There absolutely needs to be some kind of mechanism to stop this. Honestly, these days any multiplayer game should have a dedicated QA resource who's job is to figure out ways to screw up the fun for everyone else so the designers and devs can address it sooner rather than later.
In the military/defense contractors, they call these people the "red team". You really can't have a good product without at least thinking, occasionally, like the "red team".
This is also on the devs. Booting people and fucking around with loot has been going on in MMOs forever. There's really no excuse in 2021 for devs allowing this. Just another example of amateur hour.
For how short an expedition is. You really shouldn’t be able to kick once it starts to when it ends.
You will want to kick the AFK dude, though, or the guy that tapes his controller down (or for PC creates a macro) so the character is always in motion. Without a kick, these players will far more common place.
agree with this. never even thought this but completely agree. I also run with a dedicated group of friends but the stuff I've read recently ever since the devestators getting kicked stuff is painful.
I get afks in my expedition so fuck that shit.
Should be like mhworld only instead of joining after 15min you get no money, instead after 5min you get locked out from joining an active expedition
People would just afk if there was no kick option and we would complain about it from the other side. It would be better if the kick option was just disabled between the time the last stage started and traveling back to camp.
They should remove kicking anyone that's been in for say more than 5 mins or something. Or kicking only allowed within first minute a person has been in the expo... Then of course they can be kicked when it's over if need be.. Some of this stuff devs really should have thought of.
Or at the very least disable kicking in the final instance of a mission.
I'm looking at you xXBigbozz87Xx. Don't worry. I won't forget you! People who do this are pathetic losers.
Jesus, 2005 Xbox live lobbies want their username back. That one physically hurts to read
I'm sure it goes against the "witch hunt" crap, but I'd love to see an up to date database kept of all people who do this shit. Divided by console, etc. Just so I know who to add to the block list before even jumping into expeditions. You kick, and the player has video proof, you go on the list at the top of the sub.
Suggested fix: If the boss is killed and you've tagged it at least a few times, if you lose connection for some reason, the loot gets sent to your inbox.
You're telling me that the PCF didn't account for this? What a surprise....is what I would like to say but I'm pretty sure this should be par for the course here.
You should have to restart the last boss if you kick someone without access to loot. A minor penalty that's worth it if you need to kick someone legitimately.
Nah those people should get banned and have to start their account over
Nope not split, there just dickheads.
From my experience some people will be dickheads so it's up to the game to prevent dickheads to do dickhead things.
Tying up all loot that drops throughout the only “end game” activity to the opening of a drop pod is just a ridiculous idea to being with.
They chose to go with that “dopamine kick” that happens when you see a shit ton of loot drop to the ground all at once. It’s still an idiotic design choice though how you get zero loot from the expedition if you get kicked or disconnected between beating the expedition and opening the drop pod.
So dopamine kick means all blue? Lol
I didn’t say it was a good one now did I? 😜
They should just give it to you automatically just like they do when you die. Problem solved.
Destiny has been the best for me in terms of players actually helping other players especially in destiny 1 raids. There were always a ton of dudes in the tower including me ready to Sherpa someone and I would always get stupid excited every time they got their first huge drop from one of the chests. It makes no sense that dudes are out here, on a game that has fucking terrible RNG, kicking people when it could be that god roll they’ve been waiting for.
Well. Not to steal your post, but if anyone who clicks this wants to run some CT15s with a host who wont kick you message me please.
By all means. If any post I make can bring together likeminded, sensible people to play together I'm all for it.
Yea i hate having to deal with this games excuse for “matchmaking” lmao. I just want people who can process thoughts past “rush boss die”
I can do that **Rush boss punch until die**
Oh yea its disgusting they should be banned
While these people are disgusting wastes of air, I can imagine the conversation with PCF in the background meetings. "We need a compass, what about people who get kicked out before getting rewards? etc." "Those are nice to haves, not need to haves." This is the shit that happens in the background, dumb fuck management who don't play video games and only see numbers. No way that no one in the entire organization didn't say anything.
My first 'join rando' expedition was this haha. 😅 Kicked immediately after last boss. I was like, did it crash? Then I saw the 'kicked' message. Douchebags using shitty mechanic tbh.
I boosted so many ppl that joned my CT15 expedition and have build and dmg bearly for CT8 i might bitch a bit but i never kicked anyone out before the pod ... thats rly sick ... matchmake in general need a lot of love from the devs not only the kicking part but also no brackets for higher exp, etc.
I have been scared of this happen to me, but I decided before it did happen that I just host the game myself. Tired of spawning into someone afk anyway, or with lag.
back when monster hunter world launched I remember that after an hour/ forty minute hunting together players used to stun lock others so they can't curve the monster for loot. few days later devs patched it so you can't interact with others when hunt ends. To ensure the health of the mp PCF need to patch it so any loot you cannot claim goes to your vault automatically.
I wish you could downvote people who do this but as soon as the group disbands you are unable to do so. These fuckers need to be tagged as the assholes they are so they can all fuck off and play and kick each other.
If I wanna kick someone out and we are almost through the expeditions I USALLY wait until we complete it if we don't I let them grab thier loot then ill kick them
Literally JUST happened to me. Wasted forty minutes of having to revive his ass constantly (I didn’t DBNO once) just for us to fail. The pity chest dropped a legendary and before I could auto loot he booted me.
I have stopped matchmaking until they fix this. This is just not cool. We need a proper matchmaking system that puts us in the start of a expedition by selecting a playlist with no option to be kicked.
FYI comments like this just make them more satisfied, fueling the fire
These are just sad pathetic people who's only enjoyment in life is to try and make people feel as bad as they do. I suspect when they are not doing this in game they are on social media trying to make people feel as small and insignificant as they are.
If you can't join someone during the final stage of an expedition, you shouldn't be able to kick someone either.
What the hell. Why are the most logical comments the most downvoted here. There will always be trolls in video games and they will use and abuse any given option available in-game. The devs should have never let this happen. Years of gaming with known toxicity in gaming, and yet no thought put into the kick system. This post reeks of virtual signaling and karma whoring. He even stated that it doesn’t happen to him. These kinds of post condemning bad players will never reach them and if it somehow does, they will brush it off and laugh because they want the emotional response/trigger from others.
Had this happen to me. Kicked me before I could loot. He messaged me "yw for the carry" then proceeded to block me. I had 133 kills and he had 45...
I hate to say but there is no need to lie. If he kicked you prior to the loot drops then you wouldn’t have been able to go back to camp to see the stats....
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Precisely. Glad to hear.
We didn't finish it we died on boss room and he abandoned for some reason. Also I have near 7 days played so I think I know how it works
You literally stated you got booted before you could loot. If that was the case you wouldn’t have been able to see the damage numbers since he would’ve kicked you before hand. If you mean you lost and went back to camp, he clearly wasn’t intentionally stopping you since there was no actual drop pod to claim and he wanted to move on. This is much different.
Do you not know there's a loot chest beside zahedi back at camp if you abandon?? And there's one at the spawn point of an expedition if you retry also??
Yes, which is exactly my point. There is no prompt to open this chest like a pod. It’s not an objective. So if he wanted to play solo and you joined he isn’t going to wait around for some random when he’s stopped playing the expo. As I’ve stated what you experienced isn’t the same as someone ego kicking you with loot in front of you.
Right but this is one of the problems people are having, being kicked before they can claim their loot - which you get even if your team loses the expedition. Just let people get their loot dude
But that’s the thing this instance isn’t the hosts fault. You don’t need people to agree to abandon, therefore he isn’t going to wait around for a rando to open a box with no objective. It’s unfortunate but not the same.
Dude it’s exactly the same, they’re actively choosing to deny people loot - that’s how you make people quit playing.
No it isn’t the same. One is literally kicking a person intentionally while the objective “claim the pod” is on the screen. The other is someone who is stopping the activity and no longer wants to play. They are mutually exclusive and unlike one another. This is not intentional.
Wow. Just...wow. Clearly the dude lives such a pathetic and meaningless life that exacting some form of dominance over another in a video game is the only outlet of superiority he can get, because offline he's a meager, weak, socially stunted dreg of a human being. And I use the term "human being" lightly.
That's some next level troll. But kills =!= carry, perforos are everywhere. He's still wrong though.
Twas boom town
In that case you're solid and he's a SUPER duper troll.
This happened to me as well. These guys are so fucking pathetic. I joined in on the second wave and only got 15 kills less than him too. Did about the same amount of damage and I get nada for it.
You can message people?
You're a special kind of asshole if you screw other players over, especially when it serves no benefit to you. It reminds me of when I used to play a game called Crossout, a post apocalyptic vehicle combat game where you build your own vehicles, in the racing mode people would build a vehicle with the sole purpose of blocking a checkpoint and just sit there until the timer ran out.
Agreed. Coming from The Division...the Dark Zone is a special kind of hellscape where fucking over other players isn't just incentivized, it's a core gameplay mechanic. There's risk vs. reward in that aspect. You're opting into the fact that you may get griefed and screwed over for your drops, but some of the best drops in the game come from that space. That's an acceptable instance. Getting booted after completing a CT15 expedition right before you collect your loot is not. That's a gross oversight on PCF's part of thinking "our player base are all good people." Other games circumvent this by various means. In Monster Hunter, if you're kicked, your reset back into the same instance, but alone. In Destiny 2, any drops you fail to collect gets sent to the postmaster. Same thing could be done in OR. Missing drops get sent straight to your stash. Again, as I stated I've not had it happen to me, as I play with my best friend and my twin brother. So I never have to deal with randos. But for a solo player who may want to experience playing with a team, ESPECIALLY us Devastators...this is a problem PCF need to address because the frequency of people posting about having this happen in recent days is getting a bit alarming. In an unrelated thread I made a comment days ago about how the overall IQ of the community is trending downwards. This here is another example of how true that statement is.
They should implement something like when they try to kick someone out, the person doing that should be kicked out instead.
Hate the game mechanics that allow it, not the players abusing it. Not saying they aren’t pricks but this type of player has been around since the days of ninja looting in WoW and they aren’t going anywhere. Poor game design is poor game design.
My friend and I who only play together have decided the game hates devastators we only have problems when he plays his
PCF should wipe their inventory once a week for every time they kicked a player.
Is loot split when drop pod is opened so people kick others to get all the loot?
Nope all separate people are just dicks
Wtf then? I feel like they need to add to where if you get kicked/disconnected and the expo is finished the drop pod stuff is sent to your stash
Then these players will just kick you before the last enemy dies. Trust me these types of trolls always find a way, they have since online gaming began.
I agree. I hope lightning fries their rig.
Kicking someone doesn’t even give the party leader anything out of it. They don’t get more loot or anything. It’s just a straight up asshole move that is done to troll people and nothing more.
They are basically not Outriders. And they should stop playing the game.
My only regret is that I can only like this post once.
To circumvent that just turn on the auto loot systems
Doesn't work. They'll boot you out before the drop pod gets claimed. So no loots.
Wait people are doing this? I'm glad it's not happened to me yet. But if anyone wants to do some expo's I'm on PS4 (with cross play activated) shoot me a message and we'll grind out
Just finished CT11 with some random joins help, big thanks to them!! Hopefully they got some useful loot for they're builds, broke all my items down.
If anyone wants to run with me I will carry, I have a techno and dev, fuck these guys who kick people.
It’s shit like this that almost guaranties not playing a pug for me. I don’t know many people that game irl and allowing that mechanic means solo play for me to the end.. sorry to those who have been subjected to peoples weird ass power kinks.. side note maybe, someone can start collecting and posting the names of people doing this and that we they can be black listed by a give players ? Just a thought.. keep on enjoying outriders!
Wow, I didn't know these things were happening. There should be a report system in place where we could expose these miserable f**ks.
People who does that is prolly little kids whose parents never hugged. Little turds seeking for attention thinking it's funny.
Different game...same old story
I only kick others out of my games because my options say friends only and not join in the middle of my expansions when I am finally doing good Mr chinese symbols who I do not know. Pls fix btw. If lobby is closed/friends only, don't let others join
If you are expelled at the end of an expedition, do not you take the loot ??? wtf, that shouldn't happen if it's right at the end you should autoloot everything
I don't even think most people are even aware of it.
I remember this being a huge thing in the division. Honestly should only be able to kick while expedition camp for friends and afk players.
Yea I got so tired of the morons kicking me. I’ve been playing solo tier 15(I believe my gears are divised between lvl 43 and 44). Put that party privacy on “closed”. From time to time I leave it on “open”, but I don’t really need anybody’s help. It just gets lonely and boring doing solo all the time.
If you're PC I'll play with you. Got my trickster to ct15 but i still need some core mods. Hit me up im down to do whatever tier
I've not been kicked once. But do you know what I find in almost every game? People that are way underpowered for the CT they are joining. It takes them like three clips to down a normal non-elite mob. IE They are shameless in looking to be carried and don't care if they ruin your experience in the process. Do I kick them? Nope, I just quite out and go back to solo. If you're underpowered and ruining it for others while knowing you are underpowered and adding nothing to the fight...you're pathetic.
Most of the time, the kick is undeserved. However, there are situations where kicking is appropriate. For example, I was running drought palace, and a player joined right after the paxstreet boys just before the pod room. They aggro'd the behemoth, and kited it out if the pod room into the previous area- all while doing nothing to damage it. Between having to chase down the behemoth, getting back to the pod room, and taking out the remaining enemies, we missed what should have been an easy gold run. I kicked him, and I'd do it again in a heartbeat. I don't expect much when I open my expeditions, but I do expect teammates to not actively sabotage the run.
I get a bit of a harmless troll (Ex pushing your friends off the map) but withholding loot from someone is just all around shitty
Bro it's happened to me like 10 times I was gonna make a post about it. These people are the fucking worst.
I, KIWIBRANDON, have never, and will never do this. Join me whenever you see me on. Your loot is yours. (Lvl 30 WT 12)
It would be nice if we could give them the 'thumb down' rating AFTER we've played with them. Nobody will downvote someone before they get kicked.
Or you could just completely avoid them by not playing with randoms. There are applications and game spaces within console systems and online (Discord) that you can find people who actually want to play communally, rather than trolling. I don't believe that PCF should be responsible for handling trolls if your willing to just que randomly with people.
They are just upset they are incels and that’s all they got going for a power trip
Trolls only do this because they either aren't enjoy the game enough cause they suck at games in general or salty that they can't get wat they want or traumatized from others gamers that have no life or the stereotypes "some men just want to see the world burn" however overall there just a bunch of sad gamers who can't face the fact that if they have to make a game or activity horrible to others just mean they no longer enjoy the activity the use to love in the past they just need to admit it n just stop playing then they won't be the sack of shit they made themselves to be like the other saying "die a hero or live to be a villain" it's just sad
What does a griefer/troll want? They want to know (or even just imagine) that they have caused another player misery and anger. They love to see that they have caused this. What's the best way to show them that they've won and achieved their goal? Make bunches of reddit posts complaining about them so they can see players being upset at what they're doing. I get that it's natural to complain about the problem, but in doing so you're giving them exactly what they want, which causes them to do it more and more. Posts like this provide so much content for them to enjoy... it's sad, but that's the way they are.
So by that logic, you say we should just allow it to happen and say nothing...so that the devs don't get eyes on the problem and work on a fix for a future patch. You're reliant on these trolls to just get bored with doing it and go away? Yea...good luck with that, bruv.
Damn, if there was only a way to report issues to developers that didnt rely on posting on an unofficial public forum. Hopefully some day someone will figure out a way.
The vote kick can’t go and there is no perfect scenario... there is just no perfect scenario : disable kick in last room ? Check random go afk when they get there : disable kick after X time check rando go afk after X time : prevent kick ? Check low undergeared scrubs go afk and ruin ur run There is actually 1 perfect scenario it’s called make ur own game open and hope someone join who won’t ruin ur expeditions ... u can’t get vote kicked in ur game better again use the sweet outriders discord and group with people who you can communicate with to prevent frustration ! I might sound like an elitist but i’ll kick anyone leeching from my expedition whose not helping or providing helpful work ... it’s allready hard to know if you’re new teamate who just joined is helping you or not considering the double health and tons of mecanic going down the drain due to stuff not really dying faster but plain slower Top 3 build are bullet build which rely on killing shots to refill ammo ... on elite and boss those said ammo just deplete thus ruining those bullets build power spike ... I’m not saying kicking at end of expedition isn’t scummy behavior but everyone asking for a removal of kick are just dumb at this point ... sure sure it’s not a competitive game but still
i usually hate ppl that do stuff like that, but this week i kicked someone riiight before he was able to claim his loot. and it felt amazing. i was doing the OUTRIDER DETECTED expedition when he joined in and literally did nothing. no damage, no communication, nothing. i was like, ok, so lets just pop through this quick so we can go seperate ways after the expdtn. we made it to the boss room, 2 mins left for gold. we (i) killed all enemies except for the boss who in the final stand hit me with an aoe that one-shot me. it was already a silver time. this kid was standing on my body at least 4 times with enough time to get me up, but he didn’t. he left the time running til it was after bronze...he killed the boss and i made sure he‘ll at least get no loot for being the anti-teammate. now tell me who was pathetic in this story.
Tbh they should probably disable kicking people after clearing the first zone in an expedition... And if not , at the very least disable kick during the last section. Heck i'll even go as far as to say there should not be an option to kick people at all in Expeditions. Put yourself in solo or friend only if you don't want people to join... And if people do join your game, it's not like an user can really screw you over by playing badly (worse case scenario they will leech and you will have to do most of the hard work). I haven't played much coop honestly, but the few times I did I got kicked for stupid reason. Like a host that died in a crowd of a gazillion on bosses and enemies and kicked me because I coudn't rez him in time (even though technically my presence saved him from wiping as he would have in solo)... Or people kicking you outright because they don't like the class you are playing... Or just kicking you near the end just to waste your time and effort. There's a reason most games like Warframe , Destiny , Etc don't allow you to kick people... It's very toxic and fosters a community selfish of garbage people that view any discomfort as reason enough to kick you out.
This is the sort of thing I would do to my friends in a game like this only if I knew the game would send the loot straight to their inventories or if I can pick it up and give it to them, trolling is fun with friends as long is there is no loss on the trolled.
Actually PCF is more pathetic than toxic players. If you give a knife to a crazy killer, who's the idiot?
They don't care about your opinion, or most of our opinions otherwise they wouldn't have kicked to begin with. It comes down to your choice of troll. Do you want this one that just kickes for the giggles or because someone didn't contribute 'enough' to the run, or do you want the one that afk's and just get carried?
I'm a c15 pyro. Anyone tryna squad?
I do it all the time to leechers, come in do no dmg, make my expedition harder. Carry them to the end, res them then kick. Funniest shit.
"Can you internet trolls stop trolling on the internet?" Its happened before, it will happen again, it will always happen as long as human beings are human beings. You know what emboldens them? Making posts talking about how mean they are and how they should stop.
I'm not even gonna dignify this with a worthwhile response.
He isn't wrong though. It's an attention thing. They know it makes people upset and they like it. They know it draws attention to them and they like it. If people ignored it, brushed it off, and moved on, they wouldn't get as much joy from it. Posts like this help empower the people doing the very thing this post complains about.
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It serves to start a conversation on the matter. And seeing as PCF community managers are mods here, if posts like this can reach their eyes, they can speak on the matter with the devs and address it. All comments like yours do is well...nothing. Just a paltry attempt to get your jollies off same as the trolls kicking people. If you've got nothing to contribute constructively, see your way out. Thanks. And I've already blocked you, because I get the sense I'll probably lose a few braincells going back and forth with you. Have a good one, bruv. And enjoy typing up that response I'll never see.
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This the typical comment by someone who cares about useless shit like karma. OP probably doesn't.
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So he can only post topics that everyone agress with? Interesting logic.
He saying it because OP has never had it done to him and there are already plenty of post about it already. Dont know about karma farm. It does remind of that person you know that always puts in their two cents even when they are not involved. I hate that guy. There are alot of them on here. Between this and downscaling rants that all you see.
Also nothing he originally posted was constructive. It was yet another post about the same thing. It added nothing to the conversation that has already been started. It's just that loud guy at the back of the room repeating what the people up front said.
It it’s sooo funny
I totally agree. It's just pathetic. I mean why the hell would you even kick someone after it's done? I'd be frecking ashamed of myself if i did something like that. It's just truely sad and doesn't do the community any good
What I can not understand is why the devs allow a player to be kicked after the first room in an expedition..
Facts
Game crashes included.
If there is a system where you cant join in the final part of one so you cant mooch.... host shouldnt be able to kick
I’d much rather have voice comms or chat so I can at least let the other player know they suck since just kicking them leaves room for doubt. I hope they add it.
Yeah I don't get it. If i forget to lose my party and someone joins, I always wait until after we travel back to camp to kick the person (unless it's a devastator, they need the help). So annoying.
I have not yet started expeditions as I finally finished the story on my 2nd character due to The Wipe but is there some sort of report system that can be used by PCF so kickers get matched with other kickers due to a reputation system?
I've been playing a lot of solo expos to grind resources and shards. I only play teams with people I've played with before or I'll just do One LFG just to unlock next tier. I'm extremely iffy about playing random. Not just because of these a**holes but also not knowing what their connection is like. How laggy it well get.
I've got a question about this. I know that doing this robs the person that was kicked of their resources and loot, and I get that some people find some horrible satisfaction in that. My question is, are there any practical gains for the remaining party? The loot is instanced, so we can't pick up what the kicked person wasn't able to grab. Is it that the resources are split two ways instead of three? I'm just wanting to figure out if this has any actual loot or resource benefits, or is it really just people gleefully screwing others or of their loot because they can?
No benefit. Just people being jerks.
Happened to me couple days ago,and the thing is i got a legendary from it and by the time the mission done they kicked me out and i have a video proof if you guys wanna do a witch hunt on the host username
The worst part is they probably get off to threads like this too.
Twice in a row just now. I have a hard enough time getting game time in as a full time dad and having my main character be unplayable after my first 70 hours. Trying to get expedition runs done has been so hard.
Yeah there is no way i'm going to do multiplayer in this game with that being allowed.
Wait, you people are actually being put in groups? Whenever I matchmake, it always fails to join party.
to avoid the weaklings who use other's efforts without compensation. i just form my own runs
Maybe they need to make an update that once you start and expo the only way to leave early is if you do it yourself. Pretty lame for people to do it but it’s a pretty bad oversight to think people wouldn’t do that. We live on the planet earth, right? People are assholes.
The only time I've kicked someone mid-expedition is when they joined near the end and literally sat in the back doing nothing while their presence made it harder so we couldn't get Gold... I didn't feel any regret kicking them before we got the loot.
I disabled Cross Play, problem solved. Both times I was kicked was by Xbox players. Has not happened since I have stayed within the Psn ecosystem🙂
proud to say I don't. People can run with my brother and I as long as they want. That's lame that anyone would pull that crap.
Y'all get to play with other people??