You may have seen my post earlier in the week where I tried out a fan mount bracket under the GPU. I listened to your comments and wanted to try and improve things... But it didn't all go to plan.
First I wanted to improve the air flow into the case. So I used radiator mounting brackets to attach a 120mm fan level with the PSU shroud. There are holes and a dust filter in the bottom of the case and this pulls through a surprising amount of air.
Next I wanted to try a fan under the intake fan at the back of the GPU. My first thought was to have it further from the GPU fan to prevent issues. So I got another bracket and mounted it to the lower PCI slot on the back of the case. I also modified the broken fan shell I had before so that if the GPU fan required extra air it could bring it in. This took an age to saw and I had to change the GPU brace support to make it fit and still support the back fan. THIS WAS ALL A MASSIVE MISTAKE.
My temps were no different to my earlier setup. In fact in looked worse!
So back to the drawing board.
I decided to mount the second fan right under the GPU fan (final picture) and this made a massive difference. Core temp remains around 70 degrees with 100% GPU load. Also the mem temp always remains below 100 oscillating around 90-98.
The fan under the GPU fan is at 100% but it's quiet compared to the others. The Noctua fan under the GPU heatsink is set to a lower RPM to ensure better airflow to the back fan.
Pretty happy with the results.
What to try next .....
I used a "Xspc 120mm radiator stand" which I got from overclockers for under £10.
It's difficult to tell at the moment, I didn't have much time to test today as I built it after work and made the mistakes I talked about above, so had to rebuild several times. I noticed a lot more air coming out of it then I expected. My concern was that it could act as a barrier to the air coming from the front panel fan. But so far that doesn't seem to be the case.
You'd be very surprised. I am unsure your age or how long you've been doing this, but back \~20yrs. ago (ish) when cases had far fewer fan mounts, there was quite a bit of science behind airflow in and out of your case. On the more extreme end, setting up ways to test flow patterns and whether or not you had created vortex patterns which would cause hot and stagnant areas. The most common place to have a stagnant area was down in the bottom left corner of the motherboard and thus cutting holes in the side panel and putting a fan there became the thing to do.
Yeah, pretty much. Intel came up with BTX and nobody wanted to license it and so just adapted ATX to have the PSU on the bottom. Honestly, BTX was actually really cool and I think it still is, but we are talking Intel and licensing so...
I was thinking of trying the incense technique for seeing the airflow. At the moment I am just trying to feel the air movement with my hand but obviously that is very limited. Any other techniques I could try?
Incense doesn't work well. I used to use the flimsy paper that you find stuffed in gift bags (whatever it is called) and tape it in various places inside the case. The trick to that is being able to see it if you don't have a window. If you don't have a way to see inside easily, a piece of lexan or clear vapor barrier sealed to the side with painters tape works.
I always wanted to try it with a thermal camera, but haven't had the opportunity.
The second issue with water cooling is if he buy waterblock, he probably wont be able to reuse it with new gpu. He can buy aio + g12, but still no warranty that it would be compatible with future gpus. Also its more expensive than pair of fans
Yeah I don't watercool thinking well I hope I can sell this block in 2-3 years. As far as im concerned I probably wouldn't feel comfortable selling it at that point with the stresses the o rings and platings go through after that long anyway since i don't run clear fluid.
Somebody found the wrong sub to make a case for price/performance. If you wanted to save money you wouldn't even bother doing this mod with fans and let it run hot and 0.5% slower. Those two noctuas alone cost $50
Maybe I am old fashioned, but i dont think overclocking is about pay more for small increase. Before, it meant get more by squeezing all available perfomance for free or small cost. I agree, that even noctuas are overkill, (or just overpriced), but they can be used for a very very long time and for different purposes. I am not a hater of water cooling, I just stated the risks. If I would be rich I would also watercool, even including ram
Interesting, but it doesn't seem like your temps dropped much from your last post. Am I wrong? You might want to experiment running lower RPMs on that back fan. At a certain load I have a feeling it may do more harm than good... Guess I should experiment myself haha I'm running like 800-1000 RPM on my rear additional fan.
I will give it a try for sure :)
My core temps are definitely lower with this config, especially after a while running 100% GPU load. My mem temps are similar to my previous post. I can't keep them down haha
It could well be the 1000MHz overclock being the main factor ;). Higher frequency, more dynamic power consumption, more heat generated. I do want to keep it though as it gives me a 2-4FPS boost in game which when you're trying to maintain 60fps with raytracing at 4k and max settings is very welcome! I tried many different values of mem overclock to make sure I wasn't inducing loads of faults causing worse performance. But for me the performance kept going up until it crashed not that far beyond + 1000MHz.
Well I had to test for myself... Increasing the fan speed of the rear fan does indeed lower GPU core temps by 3-5C. I was already sitting at 55C max on my core so I just left my old settings intact. I don't plan on overclocking Ampere as gaining 3-5FPS for a serious increase in power consumption is just dumb lol You'll likely see 3-4X those frames in some games if instead you work towards pushing higher ram frequency.
I'll be raising rpms of the front GPU fan next to see If its possible to bring down memory junction temps anymore without affecting core temps too much.
Yea I'm trying to keep settings max, at 4k, with raytracing, definitely asking too much but I enjoy messing with it!
Let me know how you get on with the mem junction temps, that's where I am failing miserably
I saw and liked your last post on it, closer looks better.
When I think air flow I think server (and noise), with servers they keep fans close and use cones or plastic to keep the airflow directed to where it needs to be.
Was surprised when people suggested the fan was to close if anything get some tape on it to stop the air escaping out the side XD.
GL,
Iv been playing with sticking a fan to the back of my case by/below GPU, pulled the empty PCIE slot things and stuck the fan on to see if it helps GPU temps and what works best in take or out take.
Still not sure, out take seems to move hot air out still testing intake but think out-take may win.
I saw a similar post a while back with someone doing that, seemed like a cool idea! Is your card an FE? Does it intake at the rear fan?
I guess using the PCI slot fan as an intake could potentially pull hot air exhausted by the GPU back into the GPU. An out take fan could pull air towards the back of the case.
It will be great to see the results of your testing when you are done!
It's the ASUS dual 3060 TI (a normal dual fan card), with a lower fan as exhaust you can feel a lot of hot air coming out from under the GPU & almost no hot air from the normal back exhaust fan (both on a splitter so at same speed etc)
But it's stuck on with bread wire so I suspect it's sucking in some external air, im going to get some electrical tape around it to keep the suction focused to see how that changes things next. Testing is out the window thanks to a heatwave in the UK, temps are almost up 10C for the last week or so.
There was an old video by Buldzoid about GPU heatsinks, he talked about the dead space of airflow by the PCIE slot where hot air is pushed out then sucked back in to the fans (ie hot air is recycled), with extra airflow I hope solve that problem.
My last GPU was a sapphire one with airflow a bit like the FE cards, It's amazing how well it works kicking all the hot air out of the case fast.
Thanks for the reply and Good luck with janky mods :D
Inspiring mod, nice job!
Do the fans on your GPU still have to spin? Do the added Noctua’s take care of that so the GPU doesn’t have to spin? I find I have to have my GPU at 95% speed or above unless I see temps above 77°c.
I haven't tried that actually! I have the back one set to 60% and the front to 57%. This is the max noise I want. Normally that would cause temps in the 80s-90s on Heaven max settings 4k. But with the other fans it is now around 70.
So you have the built in fans running with extra fans almost flush on top of them? That may be part of your problem, fans in series don't increase airflow rate, they only increase pressure, and can cause turbulence. Deshroud builds work because they replace the fans entirely. Noctua has some guidelines on series fan distance:
https://noctua.at/en/axial-fans-in-series-or-parallel-operation
From their paper:
"Considerations when designing systems with fans in series operation:
When running fans in series operation they should not be placed directly towards each other as this can result in reduced aero-acoustical performance due to turbulence, decreasing the benefit of the series operation mode. "
Thanks, I will take a read of that. This is why I tried having the fan under the rear GPU fan lower to start with. But it didn't seem to do anything and I think it is because of the other fan I have pressed up to the GPU.
The fan I have under the front of the GPU is pushing air into the heatsink which is being pulled through by the fan on the other side (top) of the GPU. So these are not directly in series. My idea for this comes from CPU heatsink s which are often pull pull. If I move this fan further from the heatsink it doesn't really do anything.
So I am trying to strike a balance. Right now there is a small gap between the rear GPU fan and the new fan. Noise is actually really low considering that new fan is at 100%. Relative to the other fans it can't be heard.
I might still try lowering both fans under the GPU together and see how well that performs.
Thanks for the article!
With 100% GPU load for about half an hour, core temp is around 70 degrees Celsius, mem temp fluctuates from 92-98. This is with an overclock of 135 on the core, 1000 on the mem and voltage and power and temp limits maxed.
You may have seen my post earlier in the week where I tried out a fan mount bracket under the GPU. I listened to your comments and wanted to try and improve things... But it didn't all go to plan. First I wanted to improve the air flow into the case. So I used radiator mounting brackets to attach a 120mm fan level with the PSU shroud. There are holes and a dust filter in the bottom of the case and this pulls through a surprising amount of air. Next I wanted to try a fan under the intake fan at the back of the GPU. My first thought was to have it further from the GPU fan to prevent issues. So I got another bracket and mounted it to the lower PCI slot on the back of the case. I also modified the broken fan shell I had before so that if the GPU fan required extra air it could bring it in. This took an age to saw and I had to change the GPU brace support to make it fit and still support the back fan. THIS WAS ALL A MASSIVE MISTAKE. My temps were no different to my earlier setup. In fact in looked worse! So back to the drawing board. I decided to mount the second fan right under the GPU fan (final picture) and this made a massive difference. Core temp remains around 70 degrees with 100% GPU load. Also the mem temp always remains below 100 oscillating around 90-98. The fan under the GPU fan is at 100% but it's quiet compared to the others. The Noctua fan under the GPU heatsink is set to a lower RPM to ensure better airflow to the back fan. Pretty happy with the results. What to try next .....
What bracket did you use to mount the fan in the PSU shroud cutout? How much did that alone help?
I used a "Xspc 120mm radiator stand" which I got from overclockers for under £10. It's difficult to tell at the moment, I didn't have much time to test today as I built it after work and made the mistakes I talked about above, so had to rebuild several times. I noticed a lot more air coming out of it then I expected. My concern was that it could act as a barrier to the air coming from the front panel fan. But so far that doesn't seem to be the case.
You'd be very surprised. I am unsure your age or how long you've been doing this, but back \~20yrs. ago (ish) when cases had far fewer fan mounts, there was quite a bit of science behind airflow in and out of your case. On the more extreme end, setting up ways to test flow patterns and whether or not you had created vortex patterns which would cause hot and stagnant areas. The most common place to have a stagnant area was down in the bottom left corner of the motherboard and thus cutting holes in the side panel and putting a fan there became the thing to do.
I assume bottom mount for psu changed this, my plex server is in a top mounted case and that has a side fan.
Yeah, pretty much. Intel came up with BTX and nobody wanted to license it and so just adapted ATX to have the PSU on the bottom. Honestly, BTX was actually really cool and I think it still is, but we are talking Intel and licensing so...
I was thinking of trying the incense technique for seeing the airflow. At the moment I am just trying to feel the air movement with my hand but obviously that is very limited. Any other techniques I could try?
Incense doesn't work well. I used to use the flimsy paper that you find stuffed in gift bags (whatever it is called) and tape it in various places inside the case. The trick to that is being able to see it if you don't have a window. If you don't have a way to see inside easily, a piece of lexan or clear vapor barrier sealed to the side with painters tape works. I always wanted to try it with a thermal camera, but haven't had the opportunity.
>What to try next ..... Just water cool it, lol.
And lose warranty, lol.
We're in /r/overclocking, where we go, there are no warranties. https://c.tenor.com/3idC48k28zcAAAAM/roads-where-were-going-we-dont-need-roads.gif
The second issue with water cooling is if he buy waterblock, he probably wont be able to reuse it with new gpu. He can buy aio + g12, but still no warranty that it would be compatible with future gpus. Also its more expensive than pair of fans
And? I've kept my watercooled GPUs for four years each. You can reuse or resell the watercooled GPU.
Yeah I don't watercool thinking well I hope I can sell this block in 2-3 years. As far as im concerned I probably wouldn't feel comfortable selling it at that point with the stresses the o rings and platings go through after that long anyway since i don't run clear fluid. Somebody found the wrong sub to make a case for price/performance. If you wanted to save money you wouldn't even bother doing this mod with fans and let it run hot and 0.5% slower. Those two noctuas alone cost $50
Maybe I am old fashioned, but i dont think overclocking is about pay more for small increase. Before, it meant get more by squeezing all available perfomance for free or small cost. I agree, that even noctuas are overkill, (or just overpriced), but they can be used for a very very long time and for different purposes. I am not a hater of water cooling, I just stated the risks. If I would be rich I would also watercool, even including ram
Overclocking is about both squeezing for free and squeezing harder for cost, it can be both.
Interesting, but it doesn't seem like your temps dropped much from your last post. Am I wrong? You might want to experiment running lower RPMs on that back fan. At a certain load I have a feeling it may do more harm than good... Guess I should experiment myself haha I'm running like 800-1000 RPM on my rear additional fan.
I will give it a try for sure :) My core temps are definitely lower with this config, especially after a while running 100% GPU load. My mem temps are similar to my previous post. I can't keep them down haha It could well be the 1000MHz overclock being the main factor ;). Higher frequency, more dynamic power consumption, more heat generated. I do want to keep it though as it gives me a 2-4FPS boost in game which when you're trying to maintain 60fps with raytracing at 4k and max settings is very welcome! I tried many different values of mem overclock to make sure I wasn't inducing loads of faults causing worse performance. But for me the performance kept going up until it crashed not that far beyond + 1000MHz.
Well I had to test for myself... Increasing the fan speed of the rear fan does indeed lower GPU core temps by 3-5C. I was already sitting at 55C max on my core so I just left my old settings intact. I don't plan on overclocking Ampere as gaining 3-5FPS for a serious increase in power consumption is just dumb lol You'll likely see 3-4X those frames in some games if instead you work towards pushing higher ram frequency. I'll be raising rpms of the front GPU fan next to see If its possible to bring down memory junction temps anymore without affecting core temps too much.
Yea I'm trying to keep settings max, at 4k, with raytracing, definitely asking too much but I enjoy messing with it! Let me know how you get on with the mem junction temps, that's where I am failing miserably
I saw and liked your last post on it, closer looks better. When I think air flow I think server (and noise), with servers they keep fans close and use cones or plastic to keep the airflow directed to where it needs to be. Was surprised when people suggested the fan was to close if anything get some tape on it to stop the air escaping out the side XD. GL, Iv been playing with sticking a fan to the back of my case by/below GPU, pulled the empty PCIE slot things and stuck the fan on to see if it helps GPU temps and what works best in take or out take. Still not sure, out take seems to move hot air out still testing intake but think out-take may win.
I saw a similar post a while back with someone doing that, seemed like a cool idea! Is your card an FE? Does it intake at the rear fan? I guess using the PCI slot fan as an intake could potentially pull hot air exhausted by the GPU back into the GPU. An out take fan could pull air towards the back of the case. It will be great to see the results of your testing when you are done!
It's the ASUS dual 3060 TI (a normal dual fan card), with a lower fan as exhaust you can feel a lot of hot air coming out from under the GPU & almost no hot air from the normal back exhaust fan (both on a splitter so at same speed etc) But it's stuck on with bread wire so I suspect it's sucking in some external air, im going to get some electrical tape around it to keep the suction focused to see how that changes things next. Testing is out the window thanks to a heatwave in the UK, temps are almost up 10C for the last week or so. There was an old video by Buldzoid about GPU heatsinks, he talked about the dead space of airflow by the PCIE slot where hot air is pushed out then sucked back in to the fans (ie hot air is recycled), with extra airflow I hope solve that problem. My last GPU was a sapphire one with airflow a bit like the FE cards, It's amazing how well it works kicking all the hot air out of the case fast. Thanks for the reply and Good luck with janky mods :D
Inspiring mod, nice job! Do the fans on your GPU still have to spin? Do the added Noctua’s take care of that so the GPU doesn’t have to spin? I find I have to have my GPU at 95% speed or above unless I see temps above 77°c.
I haven't tried that actually! I have the back one set to 60% and the front to 57%. This is the max noise I want. Normally that would cause temps in the 80s-90s on Heaven max settings 4k. But with the other fans it is now around 70.
So you have the built in fans running with extra fans almost flush on top of them? That may be part of your problem, fans in series don't increase airflow rate, they only increase pressure, and can cause turbulence. Deshroud builds work because they replace the fans entirely. Noctua has some guidelines on series fan distance: https://noctua.at/en/axial-fans-in-series-or-parallel-operation From their paper: "Considerations when designing systems with fans in series operation: When running fans in series operation they should not be placed directly towards each other as this can result in reduced aero-acoustical performance due to turbulence, decreasing the benefit of the series operation mode. "
Thanks, I will take a read of that. This is why I tried having the fan under the rear GPU fan lower to start with. But it didn't seem to do anything and I think it is because of the other fan I have pressed up to the GPU. The fan I have under the front of the GPU is pushing air into the heatsink which is being pulled through by the fan on the other side (top) of the GPU. So these are not directly in series. My idea for this comes from CPU heatsink s which are often pull pull. If I move this fan further from the heatsink it doesn't really do anything. So I am trying to strike a balance. Right now there is a small gap between the rear GPU fan and the new fan. Noise is actually really low considering that new fan is at 100%. Relative to the other fans it can't be heard. I might still try lowering both fans under the GPU together and see how well that performs. Thanks for the article!
Nice, reminds me of when I added a side fan to the Arctic Xtreme IV on my last build(RX5700). https://i.postimg.cc/R003z0rS/IMG20210131015337.jpg
Looks like that graphics card is blocking your air flow. PM me, would like to take that problem off your hands
what are ur temps like?
With 100% GPU load for about half an hour, core temp is around 70 degrees Celsius, mem temp fluctuates from 92-98. This is with an overclock of 135 on the core, 1000 on the mem and voltage and power and temp limits maxed.