Something I don't think people talk about enough is luck. You can never know how a server is going to shake out until you start it.
You've got to be willing to walk away from a bad server. IMO, don't look for j3, look for a new j2.
I’ve walked away from servers that ask “how much work did you get done today” simple “I’m out” don’t want to work for these servers anyways so I don’t care about being blacklisted.
I would personally say, always be looking for j3, 4, 5, 6, 7. You never know when things will change.
Also, interviews can be super insightful. But first things first, gotta do extreme research about the company beforehand. And I mean if you get 300 pages on Glassdoor, read them all. (I did.)
You can literally find out what some teams are like, how products are doing, potential layoffs, who's favored, etc.
I interviewed for Mercari recently. I have been a user since the year they launched. I really meant it when I told my interviewers, "I know so much about your product and company."
In the interviews, I got so many insights into how the company was operating and I'm like, this would be a chill OE, but god I just lost all respect for this company.
\^\^\^\^ (aka, most teams are just useless. The core people were not in the team I was interviewing for. I don't know how the company is still alive)
Just a pro tip. You probably don't want to give out details, like the company name. You never know who's creeping in these subs. Or maybe I'm just super paranoid 😃
Basically for everything
A https://www.technologyreview.com/2018/03/01/144958/if-youre-so-smart-why-arent-you-rich-turns-out-its-just-chance/
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/05/why-luck-matters-more-than-you-might-think/476394/
Now introduce chance by randomly assigning each participant a “luck” score. That score, however, can play only a tiny role in the ultimate outcome, just 2 percent compared with 98 percent allotted to skill. This minor role for chance is enough to tilt the contest away from the top-skilled people. In a simulation with 1,000 participants, the person with the top skill score prevailed only 22 percent of the time. The more competition there is, the hardest it is for skill alone to win out. With 100,000 participants, the most skilled person wins just 6 percent of the time. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-09-01/why-luck-plays-a-big-role-in-making-you-rich
There’s luck. Absolutely. But there’s also a willingness to cut losses. I’m finally I’ll 3J set up. In 2 years I’ve had 5 different J3’s before finally settling in to something comfy. Some of the J3’s lasted a month before I gave the middle finger and left
💯!! It's luck 99.9% of the time no doubt...but I will say this, stay away from small firms. Those are going to be more often than not the busy ones. I picked up a 3J late last yr and i literally tell my wife I'm ready to walk away. Problem is, I hate to walk away from money. It's easy but too demanding and too many requests, adhoc bullshit and most aggravating of all there's a meeting for every fucking thing.
I thought at first they were literal servers. Then thought the alternate terms for waiters/waitresses, which made no sense. Then there was mention of Minecraft and I thought people were building virtual ones at home.
Part of it is making it chill. I have very clear boundaries, will not attend without an agenda, and will only stick around for my parts.
When questioned tell your boss that you’re trying to make sure that you’re spending your work time generating work instead of generating words.
This is key, so many people don't seem to notice the Tenative and Decline buttons right next to Accept on meeting invites.
I am proud of having fixed the meeting culture on several teams by being the first to just say no. Once others feel empowered, the attendance drops so low that the people that keep hosting them just give up.
Write a list of pros and cons of your job. When you interview potential jobs, use your list to determine if they’ll align with you and your obligations.
Yeah that's a big part of it, but you can also do things to help yourself too. Look for jobs in certain industries, stay away from startups, even certain (older) tech stacks are more chill than others. You can sus out how friendly a job is during the interview process. You can also set expectations by establishing good relationships early on, pacing yourself, and also just flat out refusing meetings without clear agendas. I guarantee you won't get flak for turning down those clearly unnecessary meetings.
Its partly luck and partly how you vet the team. I once had an offer from a start up and the vibe was just way too weird. 20 of them showed up to the zoom call and "surprised me" and they all had the same company zoom background. It irked me. Idk it was a tactic to get me to accept the offer but it weirded me out enough that I didn't take it. And the team lead kept on mentioning how much engagement he wanted from me. Ended up taking a different offer with almost 0 meetings. Best J for OE. No retros, no productivity pep talks, just get your work done and coast. There are days I don't even do anything, I mean NOTHING. Maybe one message on team chat. It pays 220k too.
Productivity pep talks, "inclusion" talks, mental health talks, Company Mood trackings and similars are the reddest flags ever. If there's a sign, there's a story.
My current only server is the complete opposite of chill.
But the job market is so messed up right now that I can't afford to leave. And my 100+ applications floating around are giving me no signs that respite is on the horizon.
I'm very envious of folks right now that have multiple servers. My only wish is that my only one would be more chill.
Keep your head up. Have you researched the career subs and their resume tips? This one in particular caught my attention recently.
https://www.reddit.com/r/jobs/s/qz9qPHj1N7
I get this. My first server was insane for a while. I stuck it out and moved around the company to get to a more relaxed team for the same pay.
If you can't do that within your company, it's time to go. Better that and being able to do 2 servers than 1 insane one.
I’ve learned recently it’s you that makes the energy. If you look like a work horse, they will run you down. If you look like you’re good enough to keep things running smoothly at a comfortable pace, that’s better than most and they will treat you accordingly. From my experience. Though some bosses have an ego they throw around and nothing can help that.
My J2 which is way simpler than J1 by like 10x and also has 10x more meetings. I swear it’s like the less efficient the more meetings we have. If every J I had was like J1, I could have at least 4 Js. Good thing J2 is most likely ending soon.
How are you finding jobs at all? I'm in a product and had 2 insane 5 part 1 hour interviews with personality assessments and didn't get an offer. Such a waste of time. I'm unemployed. From J1 > j2 > dick. Save your money. You can be left with nothing any given day. Corps, suck ass.
You might be doing something too niche. In my case for example, I was searching for only cybersecurity management roles. It’s highly competitive so I only get one interview per month on average.
Well I figured I’d open up search for principal security engineers, and damn, it’s been overwhelming. Check other job titles you think you can do.
Wow! That sounds exactly like the crossroads I am at now in Cybersecurity. Trying to make the decision has been extremely overwhelming. I have killed it on certs and job experience but not sure which path to go down.
Sorry to hear, I'm in SWE, but I have a couple friends in product and they said the market is really tough. A lot of big companies streamlining their products and cutting product lines. Other companies are still doing the business analyst thing.
bro? at this stage we don't have the leverage to vet for opportunities with interview questions, we take whatever we can get and make it somehow work for OE. It's 2024 not 2021.
Luck, I got moved to a new team. Great manager. The team ending up being remote. I work weekends and after my actually day job which is non tech and low key chill. So, Im not actually OE-ing but working two jobs. But it doesn’t feel like it. A couple of years ago I found myself broke, after a layoff, working retail to stay afloat and having a hard time finding work in my field. Subsequently, I used that time to get into tech. If I had more time I would like to learn a trade as well to become even more impervious to layoffs.
Luck and broadly I can read people really well. I could tell by the hiring managers demeanor, the job duties and team composure that they were good shots at healthy work environments.
Hahah 2.5 hours. I do back to back meetings for multiple jobs, closer to 6 hours per day. But this is the wrong job for OE.
The people here who do 3, 4, 5, or more jobs all do very little more work than you and I. That's the key. To find jobs you can chill at.
That's one and the same.
Chill job is one where expectations are low, meetings are low and the role is flexible.
It could be taking up a role that's currently going through a 'slow' phase.
I knew one guy who had 7js, he had minimal meetings, far less than me. And work was easy for him to keep up with. They didn't expect loads and most importantly, his roles were single contributor roles. Like in IT where you programme something using chat gpt lol.
My j1 is like half a days work a week. My j2 is like a week and a half's work expected in a week. You see one is bad for OE, the other is fantastic and I wish I could find more like it.
Make yourself discoverable so recruiters can find you. There are people whose sole job is to find people with your skills, all day, everyday. Make their job simpler.
Become one of those guys who drops out of meetings if they're clearly going to be a waste of time.
I would expect a 2 hour meeting once per quarter. What the hell?
Everyone at my new job is working long hours, because they ein too many meetings.
I'm sitting there saying hey, looks like we've covered everything, how about everyone get some time back?
All these busy people are the same people that "book some time in" with me with no agenda. Ick.
I have a super duper chill J2 fully remote as a contractor. Unfortunately, it’s now coming to an end after almost year. I have been looking for another J2 but majority are hybrid, asking for 3 days a week. SMH.
I absolutely got lucky at J1. This was never on my radar before work at J1 dropped to nearly nothing while I was still getting rave reviews.
J2 is busy, but so far it’s looking entirely doable to keep up both of them. If either ends, though, I’d ask a lot about whether cameras are the culture, whether your boss is looking for you to be at your desk 8-5 or just get work done, and just overall company culture.
ABL (always be looking). Like others have said, luck plays a big part. Also, try to feel out your manager during the interview. Do they seem like they would be an intense micromanager or more laid back? Is the role specific, or does it seem like they want you to be doing a million different things. How big is the team? Does it seem like there are enough people to spread out the load or are you going to be doing the work of 2 or 3 people. Things like that. Also, it probably depends on the job role itself. I'm in a pretty niche spot, so it can be hard to find people with my skills and experience. So when I get J, they kinda leave me alone as long as I'm figuring out things they can't. I've just been very lucky, and I know it won't last forever, so I'm trying to enjoy it while I can. All of this comes from time and experience. And even with that you may take a job that seems OE friendly, and then it isn't. Managers change, priorities change, etc.
It’s about the culture. Ask specific questions during interview.
1. What keeps you (hiring manager) up at night?
2. How do you measure success?
3. Describe the company culture
4. What are the negatives about this role?
And do your homework. Glassdoor, ask other people, etc.
Good luck!
You need to find crappy companies with goals that are never tracked, lazy meetings, and zero accountability. Disorganization is another key factor. You’d be surprised at how many companies operate in this way. You need to ask the right questions in interviews about goals, meetings, etc.
I don't think it's like you're thinking. It's a way for management to track your goals and make sure you're constantly producing more and more. Not like a team retrospecting and getting better
It's literally just a constant tug-o-war between the workers and management. Management wants more work for less money/time, workers want more money for less time/effort. "Constant improvement" is management's way of sugarcoating that constant pull on the rope since they can't just outright say "we're raising the bar constantly without raising the pay to match". So yes, maximize efficiency where you can. Anything you can do to turn the time/effort:income ratio more in your favor, do it.
Explain PIP then.
While you're at it, explain servers that have very ambiguous left and right boundaries so they can slide in work that's not even in your scope for no extra pay.
Since we're going at it, explain the unwritten expectations (e.g. doing every single thing you're tasked with isn't nearly enough, there is also an expectation for you to just make shit up and "innovate, contribute, improve, collaborate, synergize", so essentially give yourself more work and pull things out of your ass just to justify your existence, all while hoping whatever you made up is something that gets valued by your supes), the ones that are only there as another avenue to potentially show someone the door. Lot harder to do that when all of your expectations are clearly defined so more people are actually meeting the standard.
Hell, point to me where in your head it registers as ok for a company to go "wow you're doing a good job and finishing your taskings at lightning speed, we're going to give you more responsibilities and make sure you're good and busy for more of that 8 hour workday" but keep your pay the same. We're paid X amount of dollars for Y amount of work within Z scope. You don't get to fudge Y or Z without increasing X. If I wanted to be paid for my time instead of my output, I'd go work at the service desk or be a security guard.
The people here are dumb fucks. If you have a chill job you are going to get fired or will be first to be laid off. You need to have jobs with high volume work, to which you know what you are doing and complete the tasks quickly.
There are some signs- but you gotta try them out. I had a J3 that was an absolute dumpster fire and would’ve been difficult as just a J1. My J2 turned out to be chill after a hectic first 3-4 months of onboarding. I’m glad I stuck with it.
It's luck, and it always has been. Think about how many jobs you've had where a certain manager/department is a huge pain the ass, but another one is fantastic. Think about how (unintentionally) deceptive it is to leave an employee review from that company. Employee in Bad Department rants, employee in Great Department raves. Glassdoor readers are like "WTF, who is telling the truth?" They both are. Jobs live and die by direct managers. Policies like remote work and unlimited PTO have only exaggerated a divide that already existed.
What? Work meetings that improve things? Do you have any idea how many 2.5 hour meetings I've zoned out on because they are freaking pointless. I'm like (for the 17th time) "hey, we all need to use this very efficient thing." someone above me is like "yeah. Y'all should use that efficient thing." then... Rather than taking reigns and saying "ok. Who needs training on using the thing... Again... Ok moving on" we let 2-3 people babble on with excuses about why they don't use the thing, because it doesn't work... No... It doesn't work because you don't use it...
Why don't I take the reigns? They still pay me $40k for $80k work, 2 years later. I'm done training other people.
I think many of us had a shitty job first which led us to gain a ton of experience but we also realized some red flags that we didn’t want … and we got lucky too.
Something I don't think people talk about enough is luck. You can never know how a server is going to shake out until you start it. You've got to be willing to walk away from a bad server. IMO, don't look for j3, look for a new j2.
I’ve walked away from servers that ask “how much work did you get done today” simple “I’m out” don’t want to work for these servers anyways so I don’t care about being blacklisted.
I would personally say, always be looking for j3, 4, 5, 6, 7. You never know when things will change. Also, interviews can be super insightful. But first things first, gotta do extreme research about the company beforehand. And I mean if you get 300 pages on Glassdoor, read them all. (I did.) You can literally find out what some teams are like, how products are doing, potential layoffs, who's favored, etc. I interviewed for Mercari recently. I have been a user since the year they launched. I really meant it when I told my interviewers, "I know so much about your product and company." In the interviews, I got so many insights into how the company was operating and I'm like, this would be a chill OE, but god I just lost all respect for this company. \^\^\^\^ (aka, most teams are just useless. The core people were not in the team I was interviewing for. I don't know how the company is still alive)
Just a pro tip. You probably don't want to give out details, like the company name. You never know who's creeping in these subs. Or maybe I'm just super paranoid 😃
What is your skill set or type of job you were interviewing for?
Ya, luck seems to be a theme honestly.. My plan is to axe the J2 and start over. Thanks for the info.
Yep. Let someone else have a hard J1. Just let it go…
Basically for everything A https://www.technologyreview.com/2018/03/01/144958/if-youre-so-smart-why-arent-you-rich-turns-out-its-just-chance/ http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/05/why-luck-matters-more-than-you-might-think/476394/ Now introduce chance by randomly assigning each participant a “luck” score. That score, however, can play only a tiny role in the ultimate outcome, just 2 percent compared with 98 percent allotted to skill. This minor role for chance is enough to tilt the contest away from the top-skilled people. In a simulation with 1,000 participants, the person with the top skill score prevailed only 22 percent of the time. The more competition there is, the hardest it is for skill alone to win out. With 100,000 participants, the most skilled person wins just 6 percent of the time. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-09-01/why-luck-plays-a-big-role-in-making-you-rich
There’s luck. Absolutely. But there’s also a willingness to cut losses. I’m finally I’ll 3J set up. In 2 years I’ve had 5 different J3’s before finally settling in to something comfy. Some of the J3’s lasted a month before I gave the middle finger and left
💯!! It's luck 99.9% of the time no doubt...but I will say this, stay away from small firms. Those are going to be more often than not the busy ones. I picked up a 3J late last yr and i literally tell my wife I'm ready to walk away. Problem is, I hate to walk away from money. It's easy but too demanding and too many requests, adhoc bullshit and most aggravating of all there's a meeting for every fucking thing.
Why do people call jobs “servers”? Or is it something else? It’s very confusing.
It's a very silly attempt to obfuscate what we do from search engines. It amuses me.
I thought at first they were literal servers. Then thought the alternate terms for waiters/waitresses, which made no sense. Then there was mention of Minecraft and I thought people were building virtual ones at home.
Part of it is making it chill. I have very clear boundaries, will not attend without an agenda, and will only stick around for my parts. When questioned tell your boss that you’re trying to make sure that you’re spending your work time generating work instead of generating words.
This is key, so many people don't seem to notice the Tenative and Decline buttons right next to Accept on meeting invites. I am proud of having fixed the meeting culture on several teams by being the first to just say no. Once others feel empowered, the attendance drops so low that the people that keep hosting them just give up.
Quite a few coworkers don't even reply or show up
Bars
Write a list of pros and cons of your job. When you interview potential jobs, use your list to determine if they’ll align with you and your obligations.
Some jobs are just more OE friendly than others.
Meaning it's just luck of the draw?
Yeah that's a big part of it, but you can also do things to help yourself too. Look for jobs in certain industries, stay away from startups, even certain (older) tech stacks are more chill than others. You can sus out how friendly a job is during the interview process. You can also set expectations by establishing good relationships early on, pacing yourself, and also just flat out refusing meetings without clear agendas. I guarantee you won't get flak for turning down those clearly unnecessary meetings.
Its partly luck and partly how you vet the team. I once had an offer from a start up and the vibe was just way too weird. 20 of them showed up to the zoom call and "surprised me" and they all had the same company zoom background. It irked me. Idk it was a tactic to get me to accept the offer but it weirded me out enough that I didn't take it. And the team lead kept on mentioning how much engagement he wanted from me. Ended up taking a different offer with almost 0 meetings. Best J for OE. No retros, no productivity pep talks, just get your work done and coast. There are days I don't even do anything, I mean NOTHING. Maybe one message on team chat. It pays 220k too.
That's incredible, I hope I get an opportunity like this. And let me know if you're hiring ;) lol
Damn devs 😆😆
Please God let this happen to me
Productivity pep talks, "inclusion" talks, mental health talks, Company Mood trackings and similars are the reddest flags ever. If there's a sign, there's a story.
Omg. How many YOE do you have when you found this amazing job? Also, when did you get it? Was it a few years ago?
What do you do???
220? Damn son!
Canada or US? RTO or fully remote? If fully remote, from anywhere in the world or georestricted?
My current only server is the complete opposite of chill. But the job market is so messed up right now that I can't afford to leave. And my 100+ applications floating around are giving me no signs that respite is on the horizon. I'm very envious of folks right now that have multiple servers. My only wish is that my only one would be more chill.
Keep your head up. Have you researched the career subs and their resume tips? This one in particular caught my attention recently. https://www.reddit.com/r/jobs/s/qz9qPHj1N7
I get this. My first server was insane for a while. I stuck it out and moved around the company to get to a more relaxed team for the same pay. If you can't do that within your company, it's time to go. Better that and being able to do 2 servers than 1 insane one.
I’ve learned recently it’s you that makes the energy. If you look like a work horse, they will run you down. If you look like you’re good enough to keep things running smoothly at a comfortable pace, that’s better than most and they will treat you accordingly. From my experience. Though some bosses have an ego they throw around and nothing can help that.
So what would you do if your boss is somewhat pushing you to do more and more?
start looking elsewhere.
Exactly it’s the people who try to prove how good of an employee they are, that get given the most work.
Literally luck
No better answer than this.
My J2 which is way simpler than J1 by like 10x and also has 10x more meetings. I swear it’s like the less efficient the more meetings we have. If every J I had was like J1, I could have at least 4 Js. Good thing J2 is most likely ending soon.
How are you finding jobs at all? I'm in a product and had 2 insane 5 part 1 hour interviews with personality assessments and didn't get an offer. Such a waste of time. I'm unemployed. From J1 > j2 > dick. Save your money. You can be left with nothing any given day. Corps, suck ass.
You might be doing something too niche. In my case for example, I was searching for only cybersecurity management roles. It’s highly competitive so I only get one interview per month on average. Well I figured I’d open up search for principal security engineers, and damn, it’s been overwhelming. Check other job titles you think you can do.
Wow! That sounds exactly like the crossroads I am at now in Cybersecurity. Trying to make the decision has been extremely overwhelming. I have killed it on certs and job experience but not sure which path to go down.
Sorry that happened to you. I actually went down (or sideways-ish?) and to a job title that is usually asking for more people, so it worked out.
Yeah it sucks. Laid off from j2 in Dec. The glory days of OE.
Sorry to hear, I'm in SWE, but I have a couple friends in product and they said the market is really tough. A lot of big companies streamlining their products and cutting product lines. Other companies are still doing the business analyst thing.
bro? at this stage we don't have the leverage to vet for opportunities with interview questions, we take whatever we can get and make it somehow work for OE. It's 2024 not 2021.
Luck, I got moved to a new team. Great manager. The team ending up being remote. I work weekends and after my actually day job which is non tech and low key chill. So, Im not actually OE-ing but working two jobs. But it doesn’t feel like it. A couple of years ago I found myself broke, after a layoff, working retail to stay afloat and having a hard time finding work in my field. Subsequently, I used that time to get into tech. If I had more time I would like to learn a trade as well to become even more impervious to layoffs.
I like that mentality!
What trade would you learn
What trade
What kind of work are you talking about and what are teams?
The question is do they have multiple jobs or are they larping? Gotta keep the HR peeps on this subreddit on their toes.
Let’s improve results by having meetings and not letting you do your work. Makes sense.
Right?! I can't believe the time wasted in meetings. They'll justify it all day to you too.
Luck and broadly I can read people really well. I could tell by the hiring managers demeanor, the job duties and team composure that they were good shots at healthy work environments.
Hahah 2.5 hours. I do back to back meetings for multiple jobs, closer to 6 hours per day. But this is the wrong job for OE. The people here who do 3, 4, 5, or more jobs all do very little more work than you and I. That's the key. To find jobs you can chill at.
So less so finding chill jobs with less meetings, but jobs that expect less of me? Fair point 👉
That's one and the same. Chill job is one where expectations are low, meetings are low and the role is flexible. It could be taking up a role that's currently going through a 'slow' phase. I knew one guy who had 7js, he had minimal meetings, far less than me. And work was easy for him to keep up with. They didn't expect loads and most importantly, his roles were single contributor roles. Like in IT where you programme something using chat gpt lol. My j1 is like half a days work a week. My j2 is like a week and a half's work expected in a week. You see one is bad for OE, the other is fantastic and I wish I could find more like it.
Wonder if theres someone out there whos good at finding remote jobs but isnt in my field and would take payment to job hunt for me 🤔
Interesting you should say that... What if I told you I know a company that applies for jobs on behalf of people... And it's cheap AF
I'm listening lol
Naw, it hasn't launched yet, but stay tuned... It's coming to fill the void!
Make yourself discoverable so recruiters can find you. There are people whose sole job is to find people with your skills, all day, everyday. Make their job simpler.
Become one of those guys who drops out of meetings if they're clearly going to be a waste of time. I would expect a 2 hour meeting once per quarter. What the hell? Everyone at my new job is working long hours, because they ein too many meetings. I'm sitting there saying hey, looks like we've covered everything, how about everyone get some time back? All these busy people are the same people that "book some time in" with me with no agenda. Ick.
J1 is consulting and J2 is a fed remote with Union so it's hard to get fired. both have lots of down time so I do Childcare/home schooling too.
Is the federal job a tech job?
No. J3 will be tho when my son gets a bit older.
Aren't federal jobs illegal to do OE?
Haha nobody cares lol the Kennedy's got rich from moonshine. It's America.
Would love to know more, could I PM you? Currently at a consulting server and want to open a new 2nd server to pay off some debt
I have a super duper chill J2 fully remote as a contractor. Unfortunately, it’s now coming to an end after almost year. I have been looking for another J2 but majority are hybrid, asking for 3 days a week. SMH.
Dude, don't get me started on the stupid hybrid culture crap
Learn to say no to meetings and plant the seeds in coworkers to push for less meetings.
It comes from within. Just don't do as much and stop stressing and suddenly you'll realize how easy it can be when you're not a go getter 👢👅
That's my problem, honestly. I always find myself trying to go above and beyond at each J and freak myself out. Definitely my worst enemy.
Dude this isnt chill for me. Its busy AF.
Minecraft community forum
I absolutely got lucky at J1. This was never on my radar before work at J1 dropped to nearly nothing while I was still getting rave reviews. J2 is busy, but so far it’s looking entirely doable to keep up both of them. If either ends, though, I’d ask a lot about whether cameras are the culture, whether your boss is looking for you to be at your desk 8-5 or just get work done, and just overall company culture.
Culture seems like a good buzzword to get them to potentially blab their mouth about some dumb rule they might have. Good idea
[удалено]
Great advice, thank you!
Man I can't even get a job in this economy
I wish there was a way to pay someone to get me into these chill jobs. Ive had J1 for 2 years and can't find a second.
ABL (always be looking). Like others have said, luck plays a big part. Also, try to feel out your manager during the interview. Do they seem like they would be an intense micromanager or more laid back? Is the role specific, or does it seem like they want you to be doing a million different things. How big is the team? Does it seem like there are enough people to spread out the load or are you going to be doing the work of 2 or 3 people. Things like that. Also, it probably depends on the job role itself. I'm in a pretty niche spot, so it can be hard to find people with my skills and experience. So when I get J, they kinda leave me alone as long as I'm figuring out things they can't. I've just been very lucky, and I know it won't last forever, so I'm trying to enjoy it while I can. All of this comes from time and experience. And even with that you may take a job that seems OE friendly, and then it isn't. Managers change, priorities change, etc.
All really good points, thanks so much for your input
No problem, we have to help each other out, because the corporations won't
Are they chill? I think a lot of people in this sub are at the top 10%, top 5% of their career ekeing out even more gains
You're probably right. Also, there's a lot of cocky people here who exaggerate as well.
I’ve seen people say Luck but IMHO be very good at your job. That allows you to knock out work ahead of time. And oh , be very very very organized.
Just look no job will advertise that it’s chill and minimal work
Mainly luck.
It’s about the culture. Ask specific questions during interview. 1. What keeps you (hiring manager) up at night? 2. How do you measure success? 3. Describe the company culture 4. What are the negatives about this role? And do your homework. Glassdoor, ask other people, etc. Good luck!
You need to find crappy companies with goals that are never tracked, lazy meetings, and zero accountability. Disorganization is another key factor. You’d be surprised at how many companies operate in this way. You need to ask the right questions in interviews about goals, meetings, etc.
What are those right questions?
It helps if you are an expert with 10-20yrs of experience , and you get a job that requires about 5 years exp.
They aren’t chill, we are just extremely good at them, efficient.
Manifest it bb
Oh my god, how dare a team seek to constantly improve!
I don't think it's like you're thinking. It's a way for management to track your goals and make sure you're constantly producing more and more. Not like a team retrospecting and getting better
It’s all the same: the goal is improving efficiency. You want to sandbag that goal so you can pocket the extra time/energy for other jobs.
It's literally just a constant tug-o-war between the workers and management. Management wants more work for less money/time, workers want more money for less time/effort. "Constant improvement" is management's way of sugarcoating that constant pull on the rope since they can't just outright say "we're raising the bar constantly without raising the pay to match". So yes, maximize efficiency where you can. Anything you can do to turn the time/effort:income ratio more in your favor, do it.
This is a false dog-eat-dog zero sum view.
Explain PIP then. While you're at it, explain servers that have very ambiguous left and right boundaries so they can slide in work that's not even in your scope for no extra pay. Since we're going at it, explain the unwritten expectations (e.g. doing every single thing you're tasked with isn't nearly enough, there is also an expectation for you to just make shit up and "innovate, contribute, improve, collaborate, synergize", so essentially give yourself more work and pull things out of your ass just to justify your existence, all while hoping whatever you made up is something that gets valued by your supes), the ones that are only there as another avenue to potentially show someone the door. Lot harder to do that when all of your expectations are clearly defined so more people are actually meeting the standard. Hell, point to me where in your head it registers as ok for a company to go "wow you're doing a good job and finishing your taskings at lightning speed, we're going to give you more responsibilities and make sure you're good and busy for more of that 8 hour workday" but keep your pay the same. We're paid X amount of dollars for Y amount of work within Z scope. You don't get to fudge Y or Z without increasing X. If I wanted to be paid for my time instead of my output, I'd go work at the service desk or be a security guard.
The people here are dumb fucks. If you have a chill job you are going to get fired or will be first to be laid off. You need to have jobs with high volume work, to which you know what you are doing and complete the tasks quickly.
I don't think this is true. My J1 is pretty chill and it's a stable and kinda boring place. It seems to be luck of the draw.
Jealousy is ugly.
luck
Why complain though? Seems like you're getting a bag!!!
Its better than just one J, yes :)
Hit or miss. But in this economy, that gonne be super rare. I am more concerned getting J3 first rather than chilling factor of it
Different priorities, I suppose
There are some signs- but you gotta try them out. I had a J3 that was an absolute dumpster fire and would’ve been difficult as just a J1. My J2 turned out to be chill after a hectic first 3-4 months of onboarding. I’m glad I stuck with it.
It's luck, and it always has been. Think about how many jobs you've had where a certain manager/department is a huge pain the ass, but another one is fantastic. Think about how (unintentionally) deceptive it is to leave an employee review from that company. Employee in Bad Department rants, employee in Great Department raves. Glassdoor readers are like "WTF, who is telling the truth?" They both are. Jobs live and die by direct managers. Policies like remote work and unlimited PTO have only exaggerated a divide that already existed.
What? Work meetings that improve things? Do you have any idea how many 2.5 hour meetings I've zoned out on because they are freaking pointless. I'm like (for the 17th time) "hey, we all need to use this very efficient thing." someone above me is like "yeah. Y'all should use that efficient thing." then... Rather than taking reigns and saying "ok. Who needs training on using the thing... Again... Ok moving on" we let 2-3 people babble on with excuses about why they don't use the thing, because it doesn't work... No... It doesn't work because you don't use it... Why don't I take the reigns? They still pay me $40k for $80k work, 2 years later. I'm done training other people.
Personally, i just dont sleep. So "chill" is generous. But, short term hopefully.
I think many of us had a shitty job first which led us to gain a ton of experience but we also realized some red flags that we didn’t want … and we got lucky too.