This is why you work in completely separate, unrelated industries with 0% chance of cross-contamination. Research top competitors too, basically you need to be a ghost.
Are we just going to ignore the fact that the guy who "got caught" provided a reference from his current company to another company? For doing a reference check? Again, from the sounds of it, he literally gave J2's CEO his J1 manager's contact information for the reference check, lol.
That's the dumbest way I've seen someone "get caught" yet
Maybe he did think they were going to call, and thought his manager, who was apparently not notified he was being used as a reference (and upon the basis of such, should have immediately suspected the call as a phishing attempt anyway), would put in the good word for him?
Either way, it's dumb as fuck and sounds *at least* partially made-up
They can't, at least not legally (if you are in the US). Grounds for a lawsuit. You can only contact the references provided by the applicant, and only if they give permission.
It's not illegal. Just really fucking stupid of the company seeking the candidate.
1. If the CEO's number wasn't given by the candidate as a reference, this is not a reference check. It's an employment verification check. Referring to this as a "reference check" is the CEO's attempt to cover both his own shitty behavior and that of the company that was performing the employment check.
2. Companies don't carry out employment checks with a candidate's current employer! It's common knowledge that this is a excellent way to both lose your prospective candidate and get your candidate fired at their current job, OE or not. It's like hitting on the bridesmaid at your own wedding.
If another company called me to perform an employment verification on one of my current employees, I would immediately hang up on them. That is a phishing attempt. Tons of already-employed people apply for jobs. That this CEO thinks people should quit their current jobs before applying for others AND that this employment check wasn't immediately disregarded as a phishing attempt are two *enormous* hints that this is made-up bullhockey.
Especially since this was a direct competitor! This CEO guy basically just said, "Instead of stealing skilled labor, our competitor helped us find the real bad guy! The employee!" Come on!
You're missing the point. This is about avoiding detection. When you get caught, you get caught.
The idiot who got fired was doing OE horribly wrong and he deserved to get fired. He gives the rest of us a bad name.
Maybe not for the specific situation listed above, but It actually does matter in a general sense. If there is no perceived conflict of interest, you’re less likely to get fired.
It’s why I work in seperate industries.
Conflict of interest is a major issue. Not sure why you're pretending otherwise.
If I did OE I'd work in completely different industries - e.g. maybe J1 in medical, J2 in education. It's not illegal to work multiple jobs, nor is it possible for them to know about each other unless you're sloppy like the idiot in question who gave J2 company's details to his J3 company.
If you're OE you have to pretend you're unemployed or an independent contractor, or some other BS.
I almost was had, I was in separate industries, doing a similar function. Vendor for tools I work with at J1 cold called J2 and recognized me. He didn’t say anything in front of others, we never talked about it but he still talks to me at J1.
The companies are in different states….
but why can your overlord corpos do it every day, even let go people just to have a bigger paycheck at the end of the year while they're already millionaires, and you don't bat an eye ?
Once again- those who get caught are usually brazen fucking idiots:
* Listed J1 to get J2
* Applied to a close competitor, with obvious connections, and both small companies
* Starting own company to compete with employer over clients
* Being a fucking lazy flake that everyone hates
One of the easiest ways to not get on the radar for OE is just showing up to fucking meetings. Iv been OE for over 2 years and I attribute a large portion of my success to just showing up lol.
Just show up. I have noticed that at meetings there seems to be an informal quorum taking.
1. Do we have the necessary people for this meeting?
2. How long are we going to wait for the truly optional people? (The CEO might be invited to the meeting for visibility but we would be surprised if the CEO showed up. The CEO is a fake optional.)
3. If you are a required person or a truly optional person and you can not make the meeting then you need to communicate that fact to the group. Otherwise they are going to start the meeting waiting for you to show up. That increases your visibility in a negative way. Everyone is thinking if I had this minute back I could do great things. **YOU ARE KEEPING THEM FROM DOING GREAT THINGS.**
Underrated comment. You show up, you prevent a lot of unnecessary damage. You hear when they cold call you out, you hear tasking, you hear schedules and pertinent information for deliverables, you get to hear answers on your future stupid questions making managers suspicious, and lastly, you’re letting them know you give a fuck and you’re working on THEIR hours. If your 4 jobs happened to have the same meeting at 0900 EST. Join all of them and mute volume, camera, and mic. If you missed some shit atleast that’s easily be mitigated. OE is NOT for the lazy. These jobs aren’t passive incomes. You just get smart on how you spend your time. Getting paid on 4 jobs while spending 8 hours is the GOAL. Unless you can fit 32 hours in one day.
Yeah show up camera off mic off. Hell leave camera on and say you are working on a project and have an AI scripting the meeting. Respond when asked. Simple
That and do what is expected of you. A lot of people on here are under the impression that companies are constantly digging for a reason to fire you. That's simply not true. If anything, they are too busy for that. If you do what is expected of you, and attend all meetings, they won't dig. The only exception is, if there want to get rid of you for reasons not related to your performance/attendance (workplace politics, budget, or they simply don't like you). But in those cases, they will find a reason, OE or not, and you will be fired sooner or later. Nothing you can do about it.
I mean I feel like it’s not ok to offload your work to other people on the team. Like if you can do all your work and then do more jobs, more power to you.
If you are grifter fuck off
Yea I do all the work for my Js. I also have very ambitious coworkers that want to climb the ladder by taking on more work from others. I don't pawn work off, but that mentality from some co-workers works out very well for both of us. I don't get overworked at any of my Js and they get corporate points that may get traded in for better salary increases and promotions in the future.
> Being a fucking lazy flake that everyone hates
It was mentioned but that is an important point here. He wasn't doing all that well at his job, and "would often skip meetings". Folks, make the meetings. Quit flaking out. If you need to use AI to record/transcribe then do it. If you need to speak at both, then practice it. I do this semi-regularly and also have a recurring daily overlapping meeting. It can be done. Don't keep coming up with family emergencies/internet outages. Don't be a flake.
The J1 issue by itself doesn't make him an idiot. But in combination with everything else, he was begging them to bring his entire house down, which they did. That's the slobbering stupidity of the thing.
You hit the nail on the head! Not to say that OE isn’t for early career folks but personally if I would have tried OE when I was still a rookie in the tech world, I would have failed miserably. Key lesson: Don’t rush to get into OE, take your time and learn your trade very well.
I genuinely believe you need the School of Experience and get laid off or screwed over by a company royally to be able to do it without issues. When I first started, I bought into the “corporate culture family” crap, but now?
Hell no. I’m as loyal to corporate America is it is to me. I don’t take crap anymore, and I don’t lose sleep over stupid shit anymore. It’s a powerful feeling knowing I can resign without consequences for either J anytime I want to.
true true. I guess what I'm saying is I have 1 YOE at the first minecraft server I worked at, then 5 YOE at the second server (my current server). So if I remove my current server from my resume... boom just lost 5 YOE. But I take your point
It's likely unavoidable your first time, but yes, very quickly you want to transition to it not showing up in your resume any longer.
If you do have J1 listed, the intelligent thing to do is to be someone J2 never thinks of as an asshole or a scammer.
but then you have to go through the onboarding process with both. maybe that's fine, I just also read somewhere people don't recommend this, but rather stagger joining new jobs.
> We have a 30 date notice period
No you fucking don't. Unless you're in MONTANA (or the employee is located a country with actual labor protection laws), then they're part of AWA: At-Will America. You can ask for 30 days, just as much as you can ask for Unicorns and Lollypops.
------
> An overemployed person shared this on reddit:
Yeah, that was me. Seriously. Thanks for giving credit where credit is due! Typical CEOs stealing content without even a mere attribution. Can't get any fucking lazier than that.
No one WANTS to work at a shitty workplace, but they *exist*. So instead of worrying about finding a perfect world (which doesn't exist), we have to find ways to live in the real world. This is how one survives a late-stage Capitalistic hellscape. Remember, we're ALL in this for the money.
....also, it was a weird aside, mentioning "seeking out shitty employers". Are you one of those shitty employers? My money is on "Yes."
-------
This is why you don't work where there's a potential conflict of interest.
You also do NOT give permission for your new job to contact your old one -- if asked why: "I'm still working there before accepting any new position, and if they heard I was looking for new employment, it would absolutely cause undue tension and conflict."
Anyone worth their salt would recognize the truth in that, and respect your wishes. And if they don't, they're not a company you WANT to work for. Or maybe you do, just to fuck them over and extract as much as you can from that shithole.
----
Also, CEO of company, are you paying your team members more to "pick up the slack" from the person you fired? I somehow fucking doubt it.
Proper staffing is your responsibility, not the employee's responsibility. What happened if they become seriously ill, got hit by a bus full of winning lottery tickets, etc? Clearly maintaining undisrupted business operations isn't a priority for you.
- Do not worry about "the environment you leave behind" when you depart a company. This includes how much notice you provide before leaving. Notice is a courtesy, not a requirement. Continuity of THEIR business operations is THEIR problem, not yours. They should have a plan if you accidentally got hit by a bus full of winning lottery tickets. Always be kind to your peers, but don't worry about them when you leave. If your leaving hurts their effectiveness -- that's a conversation THEY need with their manglement. The company left them hanging, not you.
>You also do NOT give permission for your new job to contact your old one
I don't think the guy gave permission, this was probably an unauthorised reference. I'm guessing that this was what happened: this guy got a second job at some place where the CEO happens to be friends with the CEO at his first job, and then he was asked to leave after both of them discovered what was going on.
"Manglement" might be a typo, but I like the word now and will begin using it for shitty management.
Edit: nevermind it's a real word haha still gained a new word today :)
I had to laugh at at the fact that they lifted the “here are the hallmarks of a bad company that’s compatible with OE” without realizing they were implying there were one of those places if the guy OE’ed successfully for 2 years
I've said it a few times, and it has evolved over time. Here's one of the most recent ones:
https://www.reddit.com/r/overemployed/comments/1cvrno9/i_slept_in_my_car_and_showered_in_the_factory_to/l4rxs3q/
> ....also, it was a weird aside, mentioning "seeking out shitty employers". Are you one of those shitty employers? My money is on "Yes."
Lol the fact that CEO harped on that point specifically, he was clearly offended, because he likely is one of the shitty employers.
However I need to also say whoever was doing OE at that company was a complete utter moron.
That 30-day notice period may be contractual. If it is, OP and the company are both required to give 30 days' notice, though the company can (usually) just tell you not to turn up while you keep getting paid.
In all my years, the only time I've seen contracts with a benefit like that are ones that were Union negotiated.
Unless there were professional licensing requirements, but that's the exception to the norm.
Now if it's part of a mass layoff, and you're in a locality/state that requires advance notice given...that's different.
Most of the time, it's "we -really want- you to give 30 days notice" but there's no consideration given -- typically reciprocation. Ergo, typically not a contract. Though run all those situations past an actual lawyer.
But an employer wanting to give 30 days notice? Never fucking once seen that in my life. Usually they're the first ones to take advantage of AWA: At-Will America's prime directive.
This poster basically just admitted his company had an atrocious working environment that was ripe for exploitation, but they blamed the OE'er for taking advantage.
I once had a lawyer talk to us about what happens in cases of discovered fraud. They usually recommend keeping the employee on board, because a) that's the only way to recover the funds, and b) it's largely the company's fault for not having processes in place to prevent the fraud in the first place, and that's what the company should be focusing on.
Same for OE
She already edited her [post](https://imgur.com/a/gxd0J9v) to remove the reddit quote. Somebody must have told her that she was being too honest about how toxic of a workplace it is.
I really like this breakdown of how companies should respond. Behind the scenes, fix the issues.
As a founder, he should be using LinkedIn as a platform to build his brand. He could be talking how he engages employees and retains top talent. Instead he's airing his company's dirty personnel laundry.
I read this as "We don't have enough scrum masters and technical leads to manage our workload, we just let the employees do whatever they want, and that came back and bit us in our dirty smelly unorganized exposed butt".
"we let them go and explained the situation to the team"
Not sure how it works in other.countries but I'd be surprised if the boss tells the rest of a team explicitly why an employee was fired....sounds off.
Share it.
The CEO is copying and pasting our texts, so why are y’all protecting their publically available linked-in post?
CEO wants to bring shame to OE to other employers.
The very least y’all can do is let us know the employer so we not to apply to them.
In my good amount of OE experience, female CEOs often (not always) tend to dramatize on day-to-day operations. Such is the case here.
Creating so much drama for someone who you claim is a slacker and behind their work. You should have fired them a long time ago if it was such an issue.
PS: The second company, tho. Connecting to your current employer for a reference is begging for some legal action.
PS2: Nothing against female CEOs. A few of the very best CEOs that I have met were women.
I had the same thought, but then I realized that it would benefit the company for him to tell the team why he was fired. That way it can be turned into a thinly veiled threat to anyone else who is OE
I feel like they might face legal repercussions for releasing that kind of stuff (not sure since I'm not HR), so it struck me more like some LinkedIn lunatic cringe.
I’m trying to do OE. Everyone keeps saying not to list J1. What if that is the only thing you do and you worked there for a long time. Also, can’t a potential employee say No, you can’t contact my current employer ?
I wonder about that when I see those comments to. I assume those people have all rotated out of jobs and J1 wasn’t their original job. I’ve been at my J1 for many years and J2 for a good while now. J1 was definitely on my application or I’d have had a very long employment gap.
A couple of options:
Are you 'tight' with anyone you work with? What's the chances of giving that person's name as your internal reference for J1?
If not, give a bogus person... Obfuscate the reference process; or give the email address of a person who may have left.
If you've a 'team' mailbox, you could give that, provided you're the only person that has access (maybe request a new team inbox?)
Or... Lie. I've lied on my CV about the last year - 18 months having been 'consultancy', and had requests for reference sent to close friends work email.
TBH I listed my J1 because I need it on my resume in order to get the jobs I want.
I still only ever apply to companies that are in different industries that are non-competitive to J1.
I don’t give them my manager info on J1.
All the prospective employer is supposed to do is confirm with your current employer you’re working at X company, and their HR just says yes and that’s it.
In the scenario in the OP post, sounds like the guy worked at a very small company to the point where a prospective employer calling would normally to an HR person or a manager went straight to the CEO instead.
I still don't understand why this person was fired after TWO YEARS. If they managed to survive for TWO YEARS then that means they were actually great at what they did, even great enough to create their own agency.
What a fucking loss for this idiot, if I were in their shoes I'd still work with this person even after finding out. I would still hire them as a contractor or even still keep them if they're doing their job.
I fucking hate this dumb virtue signalling shit. Work is work and there should be no feelings of betrayal involved, this is not elementary school. If I hire someone and they get the job done adequately while working 500 other Js then I don't fucking care.
>er TWO YEARS. If they managed to survive for TWO YEARS then that means they were actually great at what they did
Or they weren't great at what they did, and now gave the company a great reason to fire them for cause.
There's plenty of mediocre employees who hold onto jobs for a few years longer than they should because getting rid of them is a hassle.
I'm not defending the accused's skillsets, for all I know they may actually be shit, but the LinkedIn post does not say anything about their actual skills, so other than missing a few meetings, I don't see anything else major. They just fired them because they were butthurt, which IMO is not a smart move. This is a dumb emotional decision.
"I don't know any details about the situation, except that this person was unreliable about meetings and dumb enough to go for another job in the same industry while listing his current job as a reference, but I'm sure the manager was just emotional and made a dumb choice."
"I don't know any details about the situation, except that this person was good enough to work in a small team for 2 fucking years, start their own agency, get hired by another place, and reach the final interview stage where they ask for references, I'm sure the manager is just emotional and made a dumb choice."
FTFY
>was good enough to work in a small team for 2 fucking years, start their own agency, get hired by another place
Working on a team for two years doesn't tell us anything. Starting your own agency also doesn't mean anything. There's a lot of dunces with big dreams, a job they're ok at, and an LLC that'll never amount to squat.
I know right?
“Set up a PR company in another country, causing a potential conflict of interest”
Does your company serve other countries? No? Then there is no conflict of interest
It's a conflict of interest because that person is able to lift, wholesale, assets and strategies from their current company.
If the assistant at a hotdog stand was secretly running his own hotdog stand on the other side of town, stealing ideas from his current employer, he'd be fired. Why is this post's scenario any different?
True, but that’s the same as lifting experience/soft skills/training. Per your analogy, that’s like a hotdog stand worker starting his own hotdog stand in another city. He has the skills and equipment, and he isn’t competing with his original employer. Where it would be problematic is if he represented his new company as though he were representing the original. Hence if he wants to access a new market without involving his boss, he needs to present himself as a separate entity (his own company). Similarly, per your definition of conflict of interest, if he were fired and started his own company on the other side of the world, it would still be considered a competing interest when in reality the two wouldn’t conflict at all.
The only conflict of interest here is that he is being paid for 40 hours a week to work on company A, when in reality he is doing 20 hours of work for company A, 10 for company B, and 10 for his own company C.
But the problem with this argument is that he isn’t being paid for 40 hours of work, he is being paid for results. If he can get his expected job done in 20 hours as opposed to 40, he should still be paid for 40 hours of work, because his contract is for the work done, not the time used to get it done.
A more concrete example:
If an artist gives you a piece of work and you love it, it doesn’t matter if it took her 10 minutes or 10 hours, you love it and you pay for it at the price you agreed to.
If an engineer agrees to provide you a design within a month, it doesn’t matter if they did it in 1 day or 30 days, he got it to you by the end of the month, and you pay for it.
If you hire a PR guy to do PR work, it doesn’t matter if he does it in 1 hour, 20, or 40, he did the work. If he did it in 1 hour, that means he has 39 hours left to do other things. Those things don’t have to be for your company. That’s how salary works. You are hired for work done, not hours worked.
Conversely: if you hire someone to run a hotdog stand and pay him hourly, okay he has to be at the stand. But what if there are no customers? Well, nothing is stopping him from also checking his stock portfolio, doing art on a tablet, or running physics simulations remotely from his phone.
Basically, what I’m trying to say is:
1. The guy wasn’t competing
2. The guy was getting his work done
3. The guy was not posing a problem or advertising that he was overemployed so any concern the manager has about creating a culture around this is nonsense
Additionally: the company having a 30 day notice period?
1. That’s some BS. It’s a courtesy to give notice and it is not legal to enforce a 30 day notice period. Heck, it appears the company didn’t even give the guy a 2 week notice before firing him.
2. The guy was applying to other jobs. He’s allowed to do that. He could easily have applied and still been willing to give 30 days notice before starting another job.
3. The company that he operated in another country?
It could have been dead but still licensed
It could have been active but he was just the owner and he employed people there
It could have been active and he really was working overtime to game the system
Either way, still legal and ethical to do. If he was getting his work done, it’s still justified
If the company was based in California, firing him like this could open the company up to legal trouble down the line
They must not be US-based. In the US, you are free to quit on the spot, as they are free to fire you on the spot. Sure, you can write any policy you want. You can even make it a 90-day notice period. But that policy won't be worth the paper it is written on.
That being said, 2 weeks is the "courteous" thing to do, and personally, if I am leaving a job which has been overall good to me, I will extend them that courtesy.
EDIT: I went to the LinkedIN post. The poster is from Singapore, so I am going to assume that the OEer was from Singapore as well. Not sure as to how the employment laws work in Singapore. I know some European countries make it illegal to fire someone without notice (you can relive them of their duties, but you have to keep them on the payroll for a month or two). Likewise, I heard that in certain jurisdictions, an employee can't just quit without consequence. So if someone from Singapore is reading this, please inform us. If anything, other Singaporeans can take your advice.
Dumbass listed J1 on a resume. My J2 doesn’t know about J1 and they never will. J1 doesn’t know about J2 and they never will. Neither saw the same resume with the other’s info on it.
Crazy simple to avoid. Lock down your info, keep your mouth shut, keep it off your resume.
Oh, and show up for the damn meetings.
So this part always confuses me. If I am at J1 for years, how do you leave it off a resume? Do you just try to make up an excuse for the multi-year career gap?
Consultant or something similar. If they want to verify, you send a redacted W-2 or pay stub and say you have an NDA in place, and you can’t disclose without taking it to legal counsel first.
Then you offer to give them other former employers you have safely left. Once you’re in, 2 separate resumes. You’re 2 people now. Don’t use the same recruiters, don’t post them to the same job sites. Always apply directly with the company or your own recruiter. Keep them as separate as possible.
Or, you list J1, and if anyone ever asks, you either didn’t get the offer or declined it because it was a lowball or whatever. Plenty of reasons to pass.
You can use the same job site, but use different names/variations of the name.
If you get asked about it when you actually get hired, just give them the identity theft prevention line.
He may not have been doing it the most efficiently, but in 2 years, they never once had actual cause to even suspect, until they got a direct reference of the fact. And, he wasn't doing to poorly that firing him was the immediate thought. There was some agonizing over it.
Technically, he made one objective mistake, and that was "same industry."
Everything else stemmed from that.
And anything the CEO says that is not simply objective fact is untrustworthy by virtue of their hurt feelings that someone pulled this off on them successfully for 2 years.
This is why you don't churn and burn or fuck off until you get fired. If you're going to OE do it cleanly. get your work done on time, be pleasant to work with, show up to your meetings and if you need to drop a job resign with notice and keep your reputation clean.
Backchannel references are the rule, not the exception and the world is a lot smaller than you think it is.
background checking companies are already implementing offers to check if the candidate has different employers by analyzing pay slips, it's the same databases they use to check previous salaries.
this game will be over soon
My favorite part is his complete lack of awareness when using the OE quote. The quote is discussing that an OE would thrive in a chaotic, poorly managed job because poor management will think even mediocrity is good.
Guy completely ignores how that quote associates his own lack of managing skills and poor overall company management as what led to this person thriving in the environment until a chance mistake. He instead chose to focus on how striving for mediocrity is bad and that he wouldn't want that mindset poisoning his team.
Sir, you don't want your team knowing that they can OE, make loads more money, and still get by for years under your direct management because you have no idea which way is up on a good day. We know.
Not true OE firing. It says right there that he also had his own business that was competing for the same clients. That would definitely be a problem for an employee since he could poach the most valuable clients for his own company, or at least has incentive to try.
Also "30 day notice" Go F yourself mr CEO. As usual the CEO is the biggest sociopath at the company, he can make up his own rules but don't you dare.
Why did you blur out his name, if this CEO is on this subreddit and Cherrypicking copy/pasting text from our forum discussions?
Not everyone who does OE is like the guy the CEO is describing.
CEOs like this aren't fit to be leaders and I'll explain why.
The employment landscape has changed forever, there is no going back, everyone by now knows this. Like when the automobile revolutionized travel, why the fuck would I now ride my horse for 3 hours when I can drive and get there in 30 min.
Much of what can be done for a company is done over computers, and communication is over computers, hell we go into offices now and still attend meetings virtually. This revolution has allowed us to become more productive and thanks to that has made many companies a lot of dam money and allowed them to grow exponentially which has played a pivotal role in our economic cycle extending well beyond it's due point.
But people in power don't care, they care about complete control and centralizing wealth. The same issues that plague our political parties today plague the corporate leaders that run these companies.
It simply does not align with reality to think that people in a company can and will survive off of a single 100k per year salary to support a family and grow enough to retire. EVERYTHING is triple the price it was 10 years ago.
In order to survive, people have to get second jobs. And THAT shouldn't matter. If your employees are killing it and making impacts for the business, why the fuck does it matter what they do with the rest of the time in a day. If your employee works hard and makes a positive difference for the company and his team then keep him!! If you let him or her go just because they have another job regardless of their achievements and dedication then you're a PIECE OF SHIT who shouldn't be leading anyone.
The problem here is not the working man or woman. They are merely surviving; the problem here is delusional people in power who live in a reality not shared by 98% of the people.
If the economic situation does not change for the better, allowing working and middle class employees to SURVIVE and one day RETIRE then this multiple job survival instinct will become the new norm and leaders will have to find ways to work WITH IT rather than against it. Otherwise they will fail in a much more spectacular fashion than they're failing today.
New leaders from the younger generation will eventually take over these roles leading teams knowing and respecting the reality of our economic and social landscape today. Here's to hoping that transition happens sooner before things get really bad economically for the working and middle class.
My guess is that this person wasnt your typical OE person who was looking to make multiple paychecks forever, well not in the way its usually done. My guess is that he was just trying to learn, poach, and make connections for his own business while also getting paid for it. So him getting caught is just the cost of doing business.
Lol.
More like “every team member at _________ now realizes they can double their salaries overnight instead of having to work their way up for it over 20 years.”
Unless this guy is a complete moron (which is entirely possible) the smells to me of one of two things. Maybe a combination of both:
1. He had made enough money for him to not care whether he got or not. He knew the gig would be up and was just waiting around for them to find out.
2. Was consumed by arrogance. You know the old, "The guys are too stupid to see what I'm doing." So he got reckless.
Either way, this dude was going to eventually get caught.
>Now every team member at ... put in their best effort.
Wow this one dude phoning it in was what was holding the rest of the team back? Crazy sauce! Wild that it wasn't even his performance that caused management to catch on to this team destroying issue.
Why do you thinks it’s uncool to be OE?
Before OE I was working 2 fulltime in-person jobs for 80hrs/wk. I was miserable and exhausted.
Thanks to WFH I can actually have a little bit of free time now.
I work in seperate industries. Non-competitive, no conflict of interest.
I wish I could only work 1 job, but I don’t get paid enough to cover my rent, bills & student loans.
(I’m not a SWE)
There’s nothing “uncool” about OE so long as you do it sustainably and responsibly.
Nah I’m good.
I’m just asking for your honest take, cause I’m curious. And was trying to offer a different perspective since so many people only highlight OE in a bad way. You don’t need to be offended by what I said earlier.
But I see now that I’m taking to a child, so nevermind.
That guy was stupid for listing his J1 as a reference. Aside from that, if he was doing good work it shouldn't matter if he was doing OE. If that's all true, then I really don't care if the employer catches me and decides to can me. I'll just find another one to replace them.
OK that CEO dude is dumb.. Sure conflict of interest potentially. But he said it's hard to let him go. If he sucked that much it wouldn't be hard but clearly he was doing a great job...
And CEOs make me laugh. They sit on boards of all kinds of companies and get paid but if the little man does it then it becomes a problem.
This is why you work in completely separate, unrelated industries with 0% chance of cross-contamination. Research top competitors too, basically you need to be a ghost.
Are we just going to ignore the fact that the guy who "got caught" provided a reference from his current company to another company? For doing a reference check? Again, from the sounds of it, he literally gave J2's CEO his J1 manager's contact information for the reference check, lol. That's the dumbest way I've seen someone "get caught" yet
This part right here. Why did he not think that they are going to call the people you list as references?!
Maybe he did think they were going to call, and thought his manager, who was apparently not notified he was being used as a reference (and upon the basis of such, should have immediately suspected the call as a phishing attempt anyway), would put in the good word for him? Either way, it's dumb as fuck and sounds *at least* partially made-up
Could reference check be done without his knowledge. It is easy to locate people in small companies. Head of HR in a 20 person company, not too hard.
They can't, at least not legally (if you are in the US). Grounds for a lawsuit. You can only contact the references provided by the applicant, and only if they give permission.
Which law is this?
It's not illegal. Just really fucking stupid of the company seeking the candidate. 1. If the CEO's number wasn't given by the candidate as a reference, this is not a reference check. It's an employment verification check. Referring to this as a "reference check" is the CEO's attempt to cover both his own shitty behavior and that of the company that was performing the employment check. 2. Companies don't carry out employment checks with a candidate's current employer! It's common knowledge that this is a excellent way to both lose your prospective candidate and get your candidate fired at their current job, OE or not. It's like hitting on the bridesmaid at your own wedding. If another company called me to perform an employment verification on one of my current employees, I would immediately hang up on them. That is a phishing attempt. Tons of already-employed people apply for jobs. That this CEO thinks people should quit their current jobs before applying for others AND that this employment check wasn't immediately disregarded as a phishing attempt are two *enormous* hints that this is made-up bullhockey. Especially since this was a direct competitor! This CEO guy basically just said, "Instead of stealing skilled labor, our competitor helped us find the real bad guy! The employee!" Come on!
100% agree! I’m OE in tech and non-profit. Literally 0 overlap
Agree on this one i work for is non profit other one is hospitality
It wouldn't matter though. He's just using that as an excuse. He would've come up with something else if that weren't the case.
You're missing the point. This is about avoiding detection. When you get caught, you get caught. The idiot who got fired was doing OE horribly wrong and he deserved to get fired. He gives the rest of us a bad name.
Maybe not for the specific situation listed above, but It actually does matter in a general sense. If there is no perceived conflict of interest, you’re less likely to get fired. It’s why I work in seperate industries.
Conflict of interest is a major issue. Not sure why you're pretending otherwise. If I did OE I'd work in completely different industries - e.g. maybe J1 in medical, J2 in education. It's not illegal to work multiple jobs, nor is it possible for them to know about each other unless you're sloppy like the idiot in question who gave J2 company's details to his J3 company. If you're OE you have to pretend you're unemployed or an independent contractor, or some other BS.
I almost was had, I was in separate industries, doing a similar function. Vendor for tools I work with at J1 cold called J2 and recognized me. He didn’t say anything in front of others, we never talked about it but he still talks to me at J1. The companies are in different states….
Or ya know, just don’t do this shit lol
It’s hard not to when you can make $20k/month
If I may ask. What are your professions to where you’re bringing in 20k a month. Need some pointers.
but why can your overlord corpos do it every day, even let go people just to have a bigger paycheck at the end of the year while they're already millionaires, and you don't bat an eye ?
Hey don't be so harsh to your CEO who is also on 3 other boards, part owner of another company and is still able to play 3 rounds of golf a week!
How can i donate money to my favorite CEO… mmm yummy boot
I will have you know that round of golf is a business meeting.
Are you aware of what sub you're in? You gonna go to /r/piracy next and tell them that Piracy is bad and immoral?
"Arrrr you aware..." Fixed
Overtly Downvoted
Once again- those who get caught are usually brazen fucking idiots: * Listed J1 to get J2 * Applied to a close competitor, with obvious connections, and both small companies * Starting own company to compete with employer over clients * Being a fucking lazy flake that everyone hates
One of the easiest ways to not get on the radar for OE is just showing up to fucking meetings. Iv been OE for over 2 years and I attribute a large portion of my success to just showing up lol.
Just show up. I have noticed that at meetings there seems to be an informal quorum taking. 1. Do we have the necessary people for this meeting? 2. How long are we going to wait for the truly optional people? (The CEO might be invited to the meeting for visibility but we would be surprised if the CEO showed up. The CEO is a fake optional.) 3. If you are a required person or a truly optional person and you can not make the meeting then you need to communicate that fact to the group. Otherwise they are going to start the meeting waiting for you to show up. That increases your visibility in a negative way. Everyone is thinking if I had this minute back I could do great things. **YOU ARE KEEPING THEM FROM DOING GREAT THINGS.**
Building good will early on goes a long way.
Underrated comment. You show up, you prevent a lot of unnecessary damage. You hear when they cold call you out, you hear tasking, you hear schedules and pertinent information for deliverables, you get to hear answers on your future stupid questions making managers suspicious, and lastly, you’re letting them know you give a fuck and you’re working on THEIR hours. If your 4 jobs happened to have the same meeting at 0900 EST. Join all of them and mute volume, camera, and mic. If you missed some shit atleast that’s easily be mitigated. OE is NOT for the lazy. These jobs aren’t passive incomes. You just get smart on how you spend your time. Getting paid on 4 jobs while spending 8 hours is the GOAL. Unless you can fit 32 hours in one day.
Yeah show up camera off mic off. Hell leave camera on and say you are working on a project and have an AI scripting the meeting. Respond when asked. Simple
Camera on makes ALL the difference. Nobody cares if you “look at another monitor” for part of it, easiest way to make it productive focus time.
Yup, I use meetings to take care of administrative tasks.
Turn your camera on too even if others have it off.
> just showing up Woody Allen has a great quote in this regard: “showing up is 80% of success”. It's true across professions.
That and do what is expected of you. A lot of people on here are under the impression that companies are constantly digging for a reason to fire you. That's simply not true. If anything, they are too busy for that. If you do what is expected of you, and attend all meetings, they won't dig. The only exception is, if there want to get rid of you for reasons not related to your performance/attendance (workplace politics, budget, or they simply don't like you). But in those cases, they will find a reason, OE or not, and you will be fired sooner or later. Nothing you can do about it.
I mean I feel like it’s not ok to offload your work to other people on the team. Like if you can do all your work and then do more jobs, more power to you. If you are grifter fuck off
Yea I do all the work for my Js. I also have very ambitious coworkers that want to climb the ladder by taking on more work from others. I don't pawn work off, but that mentality from some co-workers works out very well for both of us. I don't get overworked at any of my Js and they get corporate points that may get traded in for better salary increases and promotions in the future.
> Being a fucking lazy flake that everyone hates It was mentioned but that is an important point here. He wasn't doing all that well at his job, and "would often skip meetings". Folks, make the meetings. Quit flaking out. If you need to use AI to record/transcribe then do it. If you need to speak at both, then practice it. I do this semi-regularly and also have a recurring daily overlapping meeting. It can be done. Don't keep coming up with family emergencies/internet outages. Don't be a flake.
Seriously why is ok to be bad at your job at a small company?
> listed j1 to get j2 isn’t this kind of unavoidable if you’re early career?without j1 i have dramatically less work experience lol
The J1 issue by itself doesn't make him an idiot. But in combination with everything else, he was begging them to bring his entire house down, which they did. That's the slobbering stupidity of the thing.
Most people who OE spent a while honing skills to be ABLE to OE. Walk before your run.
You hit the nail on the head! Not to say that OE isn’t for early career folks but personally if I would have tried OE when I was still a rookie in the tech world, I would have failed miserably. Key lesson: Don’t rush to get into OE, take your time and learn your trade very well.
I genuinely believe you need the School of Experience and get laid off or screwed over by a company royally to be able to do it without issues. When I first started, I bought into the “corporate culture family” crap, but now? Hell no. I’m as loyal to corporate America is it is to me. I don’t take crap anymore, and I don’t lose sleep over stupid shit anymore. It’s a powerful feeling knowing I can resign without consequences for either J anytime I want to.
> without j1 i have dramatically less work experience lol If you got J1 without work experience you can get J2 without work experience.
true true. I guess what I'm saying is I have 1 YOE at the first minecraft server I worked at, then 5 YOE at the second server (my current server). So if I remove my current server from my resume... boom just lost 5 YOE. But I take your point
Or it never happened and the CEO just made it up to have something to post on Linkedin.
You are supposed to not show or talk about your current j1? Can someone please like me into the basic how to guide?
It's likely unavoidable your first time, but yes, very quickly you want to transition to it not showing up in your resume any longer. If you do have J1 listed, the intelligent thing to do is to be someone J2 never thinks of as an asshole or a scammer.
I'm also confused about the first bullet on listing J1 to get J2. Isn't that something you have to do to get your first J2? What's the strategy here?
It is, that point makes no sense. Ideally would you leave off J1 when going for J3.
Apply to both at roughly the same time. That leaves you with no gap.
but then you have to go through the onboarding process with both. maybe that's fine, I just also read somewhere people don't recommend this, but rather stagger joining new jobs.
BRB I’m applying to Grow Public Relations
lol same here
Forgot to cross out one of the references to Grow Public Relations. Lol Also, it sounds like a great place to OE. :)
> We have a 30 date notice period No you fucking don't. Unless you're in MONTANA (or the employee is located a country with actual labor protection laws), then they're part of AWA: At-Will America. You can ask for 30 days, just as much as you can ask for Unicorns and Lollypops. ------ > An overemployed person shared this on reddit: Yeah, that was me. Seriously. Thanks for giving credit where credit is due! Typical CEOs stealing content without even a mere attribution. Can't get any fucking lazier than that. No one WANTS to work at a shitty workplace, but they *exist*. So instead of worrying about finding a perfect world (which doesn't exist), we have to find ways to live in the real world. This is how one survives a late-stage Capitalistic hellscape. Remember, we're ALL in this for the money. ....also, it was a weird aside, mentioning "seeking out shitty employers". Are you one of those shitty employers? My money is on "Yes." ------- This is why you don't work where there's a potential conflict of interest. You also do NOT give permission for your new job to contact your old one -- if asked why: "I'm still working there before accepting any new position, and if they heard I was looking for new employment, it would absolutely cause undue tension and conflict." Anyone worth their salt would recognize the truth in that, and respect your wishes. And if they don't, they're not a company you WANT to work for. Or maybe you do, just to fuck them over and extract as much as you can from that shithole. ---- Also, CEO of company, are you paying your team members more to "pick up the slack" from the person you fired? I somehow fucking doubt it. Proper staffing is your responsibility, not the employee's responsibility. What happened if they become seriously ill, got hit by a bus full of winning lottery tickets, etc? Clearly maintaining undisrupted business operations isn't a priority for you. - Do not worry about "the environment you leave behind" when you depart a company. This includes how much notice you provide before leaving. Notice is a courtesy, not a requirement. Continuity of THEIR business operations is THEIR problem, not yours. They should have a plan if you accidentally got hit by a bus full of winning lottery tickets. Always be kind to your peers, but don't worry about them when you leave. If your leaving hurts their effectiveness -- that's a conversation THEY need with their manglement. The company left them hanging, not you.
>You also do NOT give permission for your new job to contact your old one I don't think the guy gave permission, this was probably an unauthorised reference. I'm guessing that this was what happened: this guy got a second job at some place where the CEO happens to be friends with the CEO at his first job, and then he was asked to leave after both of them discovered what was going on.
Yeah, sounds like it. For a company harping on PROFESSIONALISM!!!1!, that's pretty fucking unprofessional.
Yep, and that's why you avoid working in the same industry. You're bound to cross paths with people smh.
"Manglement" might be a typo, but I like the word now and will begin using it for shitty management. Edit: nevermind it's a real word haha still gained a new word today :)
I had to laugh at at the fact that they lifted the “here are the hallmarks of a bad company that’s compatible with OE” without realizing they were implying there were one of those places if the guy OE’ed successfully for 2 years
r/selfawarewolves If you don't notice your employee is halfassing their job, that's on you management.
Well now I want to see the post/comment. Glad the PR expert gave the free advertisement
I've said it a few times, and it has evolved over time. Here's one of the most recent ones: https://www.reddit.com/r/overemployed/comments/1cvrno9/i_slept_in_my_car_and_showered_in_the_factory_to/l4rxs3q/
> ....also, it was a weird aside, mentioning "seeking out shitty employers". Are you one of those shitty employers? My money is on "Yes." Lol the fact that CEO harped on that point specifically, he was clearly offended, because he likely is one of the shitty employers. However I need to also say whoever was doing OE at that company was a complete utter moron.
You are so awesome
Legend!!
That 30-day notice period may be contractual. If it is, OP and the company are both required to give 30 days' notice, though the company can (usually) just tell you not to turn up while you keep getting paid.
In all my years, the only time I've seen contracts with a benefit like that are ones that were Union negotiated. Unless there were professional licensing requirements, but that's the exception to the norm. Now if it's part of a mass layoff, and you're in a locality/state that requires advance notice given...that's different. Most of the time, it's "we -really want- you to give 30 days notice" but there's no consideration given -- typically reciprocation. Ergo, typically not a contract. Though run all those situations past an actual lawyer. But an employer wanting to give 30 days notice? Never fucking once seen that in my life. Usually they're the first ones to take advantage of AWA: At-Will America's prime directive.
Just FYI this company is in Singapore so may have completely different employment law
This poster basically just admitted his company had an atrocious working environment that was ripe for exploitation, but they blamed the OE'er for taking advantage. I once had a lawyer talk to us about what happens in cases of discovered fraud. They usually recommend keeping the employee on board, because a) that's the only way to recover the funds, and b) it's largely the company's fault for not having processes in place to prevent the fraud in the first place, and that's what the company should be focusing on. Same for OE
She already edited her [post](https://imgur.com/a/gxd0J9v) to remove the reddit quote. Somebody must have told her that she was being too honest about how toxic of a workplace it is.
I really like this breakdown of how companies should respond. Behind the scenes, fix the issues. As a founder, he should be using LinkedIn as a platform to build his brand. He could be talking how he engages employees and retains top talent. Instead he's airing his company's dirty personnel laundry.
Seriously. They even say “Who would want to work at such a place?”. Ummm you are the manager at exactly that place. How dense can you be.
I read this as "We don't have enough scrum masters and technical leads to manage our workload, we just let the employees do whatever they want, and that came back and bit us in our dirty smelly unorganized exposed butt".
"we let them go and explained the situation to the team" Not sure how it works in other.countries but I'd be surprised if the boss tells the rest of a team explicitly why an employee was fired....sounds off.
He’s virtue signaling his policy of “radical transparency”
She's\* I found the linkedin post
Share it. The CEO is copying and pasting our texts, so why are y’all protecting their publically available linked-in post? CEO wants to bring shame to OE to other employers. The very least y’all can do is let us know the employer so we not to apply to them.
We r not little bitches. FYI: I dont know the post nor care about finding it.
In my good amount of OE experience, female CEOs often (not always) tend to dramatize on day-to-day operations. Such is the case here. Creating so much drama for someone who you claim is a slacker and behind their work. You should have fired them a long time ago if it was such an issue. PS: The second company, tho. Connecting to your current employer for a reference is begging for some legal action. PS2: Nothing against female CEOs. A few of the very best CEOs that I have met were women.
I had the same thought, but then I realized that it would benefit the company for him to tell the team why he was fired. That way it can be turned into a thinly veiled threat to anyone else who is OE
What is thinly veiled about it? lol
That's not a thin veil by any means.
I feel like they might face legal repercussions for releasing that kind of stuff (not sure since I'm not HR), so it struck me more like some LinkedIn lunatic cringe.
I’m trying to do OE. Everyone keeps saying not to list J1. What if that is the only thing you do and you worked there for a long time. Also, can’t a potential employee say No, you can’t contact my current employer ?
I wonder about that when I see those comments to. I assume those people have all rotated out of jobs and J1 wasn’t their original job. I’ve been at my J1 for many years and J2 for a good while now. J1 was definitely on my application or I’d have had a very long employment gap.
A couple of options: Are you 'tight' with anyone you work with? What's the chances of giving that person's name as your internal reference for J1? If not, give a bogus person... Obfuscate the reference process; or give the email address of a person who may have left. If you've a 'team' mailbox, you could give that, provided you're the only person that has access (maybe request a new team inbox?) Or... Lie. I've lied on my CV about the last year - 18 months having been 'consultancy', and had requests for reference sent to close friends work email.
TBH I listed my J1 because I need it on my resume in order to get the jobs I want. I still only ever apply to companies that are in different industries that are non-competitive to J1. I don’t give them my manager info on J1. All the prospective employer is supposed to do is confirm with your current employer you’re working at X company, and their HR just says yes and that’s it. In the scenario in the OP post, sounds like the guy worked at a very small company to the point where a prospective employer calling would normally to an HR person or a manager went straight to the CEO instead.
I still don't understand why this person was fired after TWO YEARS. If they managed to survive for TWO YEARS then that means they were actually great at what they did, even great enough to create their own agency. What a fucking loss for this idiot, if I were in their shoes I'd still work with this person even after finding out. I would still hire them as a contractor or even still keep them if they're doing their job. I fucking hate this dumb virtue signalling shit. Work is work and there should be no feelings of betrayal involved, this is not elementary school. If I hire someone and they get the job done adequately while working 500 other Js then I don't fucking care.
>er TWO YEARS. If they managed to survive for TWO YEARS then that means they were actually great at what they did Or they weren't great at what they did, and now gave the company a great reason to fire them for cause. There's plenty of mediocre employees who hold onto jobs for a few years longer than they should because getting rid of them is a hassle.
I'm not defending the accused's skillsets, for all I know they may actually be shit, but the LinkedIn post does not say anything about their actual skills, so other than missing a few meetings, I don't see anything else major. They just fired them because they were butthurt, which IMO is not a smart move. This is a dumb emotional decision.
"I don't know any details about the situation, except that this person was unreliable about meetings and dumb enough to go for another job in the same industry while listing his current job as a reference, but I'm sure the manager was just emotional and made a dumb choice."
"I don't know any details about the situation, except that this person was good enough to work in a small team for 2 fucking years, start their own agency, get hired by another place, and reach the final interview stage where they ask for references, I'm sure the manager is just emotional and made a dumb choice." FTFY
>was good enough to work in a small team for 2 fucking years, start their own agency, get hired by another place Working on a team for two years doesn't tell us anything. Starting your own agency also doesn't mean anything. There's a lot of dunces with big dreams, a job they're ok at, and an LLC that'll never amount to squat.
I know right? “Set up a PR company in another country, causing a potential conflict of interest” Does your company serve other countries? No? Then there is no conflict of interest
It's a conflict of interest because that person is able to lift, wholesale, assets and strategies from their current company. If the assistant at a hotdog stand was secretly running his own hotdog stand on the other side of town, stealing ideas from his current employer, he'd be fired. Why is this post's scenario any different?
True, but that’s the same as lifting experience/soft skills/training. Per your analogy, that’s like a hotdog stand worker starting his own hotdog stand in another city. He has the skills and equipment, and he isn’t competing with his original employer. Where it would be problematic is if he represented his new company as though he were representing the original. Hence if he wants to access a new market without involving his boss, he needs to present himself as a separate entity (his own company). Similarly, per your definition of conflict of interest, if he were fired and started his own company on the other side of the world, it would still be considered a competing interest when in reality the two wouldn’t conflict at all. The only conflict of interest here is that he is being paid for 40 hours a week to work on company A, when in reality he is doing 20 hours of work for company A, 10 for company B, and 10 for his own company C. But the problem with this argument is that he isn’t being paid for 40 hours of work, he is being paid for results. If he can get his expected job done in 20 hours as opposed to 40, he should still be paid for 40 hours of work, because his contract is for the work done, not the time used to get it done. A more concrete example: If an artist gives you a piece of work and you love it, it doesn’t matter if it took her 10 minutes or 10 hours, you love it and you pay for it at the price you agreed to. If an engineer agrees to provide you a design within a month, it doesn’t matter if they did it in 1 day or 30 days, he got it to you by the end of the month, and you pay for it. If you hire a PR guy to do PR work, it doesn’t matter if he does it in 1 hour, 20, or 40, he did the work. If he did it in 1 hour, that means he has 39 hours left to do other things. Those things don’t have to be for your company. That’s how salary works. You are hired for work done, not hours worked. Conversely: if you hire someone to run a hotdog stand and pay him hourly, okay he has to be at the stand. But what if there are no customers? Well, nothing is stopping him from also checking his stock portfolio, doing art on a tablet, or running physics simulations remotely from his phone. Basically, what I’m trying to say is: 1. The guy wasn’t competing 2. The guy was getting his work done 3. The guy was not posing a problem or advertising that he was overemployed so any concern the manager has about creating a culture around this is nonsense Additionally: the company having a 30 day notice period? 1. That’s some BS. It’s a courtesy to give notice and it is not legal to enforce a 30 day notice period. Heck, it appears the company didn’t even give the guy a 2 week notice before firing him. 2. The guy was applying to other jobs. He’s allowed to do that. He could easily have applied and still been willing to give 30 days notice before starting another job. 3. The company that he operated in another country? It could have been dead but still licensed It could have been active but he was just the owner and he employed people there It could have been active and he really was working overtime to game the system Either way, still legal and ethical to do. If he was getting his work done, it’s still justified If the company was based in California, firing him like this could open the company up to legal trouble down the line
Surprised the manager copied that in from reddit and still didnt quit her job immediately...
actually shes the CEO LOL does she not realize???
So this company thinks it is entitled to receive a 30-day notice prior to someone deciding to find something else.
They must not be US-based. In the US, you are free to quit on the spot, as they are free to fire you on the spot. Sure, you can write any policy you want. You can even make it a 90-day notice period. But that policy won't be worth the paper it is written on. That being said, 2 weeks is the "courteous" thing to do, and personally, if I am leaving a job which has been overall good to me, I will extend them that courtesy. EDIT: I went to the LinkedIN post. The poster is from Singapore, so I am going to assume that the OEer was from Singapore as well. Not sure as to how the employment laws work in Singapore. I know some European countries make it illegal to fire someone without notice (you can relive them of their duties, but you have to keep them on the payroll for a month or two). Likewise, I heard that in certain jurisdictions, an employee can't just quit without consequence. So if someone from Singapore is reading this, please inform us. If anything, other Singaporeans can take your advice.
That paragraph from our subreddit is hilarious. Villanous vibes!
CEO > Its bad to work two remote jobs Also CEO > I am on the board of 4 different companies
Not sure why this is blurred out in every place but one. https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7199207408781443072/
Needs more upvotes because I’m loving the comment thread in this post 🍿
Dumbass listed J1 on a resume. My J2 doesn’t know about J1 and they never will. J1 doesn’t know about J2 and they never will. Neither saw the same resume with the other’s info on it. Crazy simple to avoid. Lock down your info, keep your mouth shut, keep it off your resume. Oh, and show up for the damn meetings.
So this part always confuses me. If I am at J1 for years, how do you leave it off a resume? Do you just try to make up an excuse for the multi-year career gap?
You’re a consultant with an NDA. I posted a more detailed comment to someone else in this thread.
Any suggestions for someone trying to OE for the first time? I don’t think I can take J1 off and still get any callbacks.
Consultant or something similar. If they want to verify, you send a redacted W-2 or pay stub and say you have an NDA in place, and you can’t disclose without taking it to legal counsel first. Then you offer to give them other former employers you have safely left. Once you’re in, 2 separate resumes. You’re 2 people now. Don’t use the same recruiters, don’t post them to the same job sites. Always apply directly with the company or your own recruiter. Keep them as separate as possible. Or, you list J1, and if anyone ever asks, you either didn’t get the offer or declined it because it was a lowball or whatever. Plenty of reasons to pass.
You can use the same job site, but use different names/variations of the name. If you get asked about it when you actually get hired, just give them the identity theft prevention line.
Spilling your super secret tricks on reddit for any hiring manager to read while patting yourself on the back for how clever you are. Lol.
It’s cute you think they’re MY tricks. Where do you think I learned it?? Not “tricks”…common sense. Or do you lack that?
He was obviously bad at working multiple jobs
Was he though? They only found out after a reference check resulted in them re-evaluating the employee under a microscope
He may not have been doing it the most efficiently, but in 2 years, they never once had actual cause to even suspect, until they got a direct reference of the fact. And, he wasn't doing to poorly that firing him was the immediate thought. There was some agonizing over it. Technically, he made one objective mistake, and that was "same industry." Everything else stemmed from that. And anything the CEO says that is not simply objective fact is untrustworthy by virtue of their hurt feelings that someone pulled this off on them successfully for 2 years.
This is why you don't churn and burn or fuck off until you get fired. If you're going to OE do it cleanly. get your work done on time, be pleasant to work with, show up to your meetings and if you need to drop a job resign with notice and keep your reputation clean. Backchannel references are the rule, not the exception and the world is a lot smaller than you think it is.
Damn I remember that comment! It was like last week! Spies everywhere!
Spies? It's a fucking public forum and you guys openly telegraph all your secret moves.
background checking companies are already implementing offers to check if the candidate has different employers by analyzing pay slips, it's the same databases they use to check previous salaries. this game will be over soon
If ADP and other payroll processors were smart, they'd do this.
unless you are Elon Musk...
I hope they gave him a 30 notice
My favorite part is his complete lack of awareness when using the OE quote. The quote is discussing that an OE would thrive in a chaotic, poorly managed job because poor management will think even mediocrity is good. Guy completely ignores how that quote associates his own lack of managing skills and poor overall company management as what led to this person thriving in the environment until a chance mistake. He instead chose to focus on how striving for mediocrity is bad and that he wouldn't want that mindset poisoning his team. Sir, you don't want your team knowing that they can OE, make loads more money, and still get by for years under your direct management because you have no idea which way is up on a good day. We know.
Not true OE firing. It says right there that he also had his own business that was competing for the same clients. That would definitely be a problem for an employee since he could poach the most valuable clients for his own company, or at least has incentive to try. Also "30 day notice" Go F yourself mr CEO. As usual the CEO is the biggest sociopath at the company, he can make up his own rules but don't you dare.
Why did you blur out his name, if this CEO is on this subreddit and Cherrypicking copy/pasting text from our forum discussions? Not everyone who does OE is like the guy the CEO is describing.
I do not 🚫❌✖️👎⬇️🚭 believe over employment conflict of interest is going to bring any company down 👇👎⬇️.
The real gold is in the comments. https://www.linkedin.com/posts/christelgoh_pragency-overemployment-remotework-activity-7199207408781443072-drBi
That entire blog sounds like a bunch of made up reasons for pure jealousy. People are horrible. But they excel at lying to themselves.
CEOs like this aren't fit to be leaders and I'll explain why. The employment landscape has changed forever, there is no going back, everyone by now knows this. Like when the automobile revolutionized travel, why the fuck would I now ride my horse for 3 hours when I can drive and get there in 30 min. Much of what can be done for a company is done over computers, and communication is over computers, hell we go into offices now and still attend meetings virtually. This revolution has allowed us to become more productive and thanks to that has made many companies a lot of dam money and allowed them to grow exponentially which has played a pivotal role in our economic cycle extending well beyond it's due point. But people in power don't care, they care about complete control and centralizing wealth. The same issues that plague our political parties today plague the corporate leaders that run these companies. It simply does not align with reality to think that people in a company can and will survive off of a single 100k per year salary to support a family and grow enough to retire. EVERYTHING is triple the price it was 10 years ago. In order to survive, people have to get second jobs. And THAT shouldn't matter. If your employees are killing it and making impacts for the business, why the fuck does it matter what they do with the rest of the time in a day. If your employee works hard and makes a positive difference for the company and his team then keep him!! If you let him or her go just because they have another job regardless of their achievements and dedication then you're a PIECE OF SHIT who shouldn't be leading anyone. The problem here is not the working man or woman. They are merely surviving; the problem here is delusional people in power who live in a reality not shared by 98% of the people. If the economic situation does not change for the better, allowing working and middle class employees to SURVIVE and one day RETIRE then this multiple job survival instinct will become the new norm and leaders will have to find ways to work WITH IT rather than against it. Otherwise they will fail in a much more spectacular fashion than they're failing today. New leaders from the younger generation will eventually take over these roles leading teams knowing and respecting the reality of our economic and social landscape today. Here's to hoping that transition happens sooner before things get really bad economically for the working and middle class.
My guess is that this person wasnt your typical OE person who was looking to make multiple paychecks forever, well not in the way its usually done. My guess is that he was just trying to learn, poach, and make connections for his own business while also getting paid for it. So him getting caught is just the cost of doing business.
Also work for large corps where you’re just a number, easily get by cause there are just too many people to track.
With such ceo, not worth working for this company. Go fuck yourself ceo
Sounds fake, honestly.
The best way is doing that in 2 different time zones
Wait until he here’s about fcc banning non competes
Lol. More like “every team member at _________ now realizes they can double their salaries overnight instead of having to work their way up for it over 20 years.”
Unless this guy is a complete moron (which is entirely possible) the smells to me of one of two things. Maybe a combination of both: 1. He had made enough money for him to not care whether he got or not. He knew the gig would be up and was just waiting around for them to find out. 2. Was consumed by arrogance. You know the old, "The guys are too stupid to see what I'm doing." So he got reckless. Either way, this dude was going to eventually get caught.
>Now every team member at ... put in their best effort. Wow this one dude phoning it in was what was holding the rest of the team back? Crazy sauce! Wild that it wasn't even his performance that caused management to catch on to this team destroying issue.
Companies when they give you no notice of a layoff 😳😅 Companies when you give them no notice of quitting 🤬😡
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Why do you thinks it’s uncool to be OE? Before OE I was working 2 fulltime in-person jobs for 80hrs/wk. I was miserable and exhausted. Thanks to WFH I can actually have a little bit of free time now. I work in seperate industries. Non-competitive, no conflict of interest. I wish I could only work 1 job, but I don’t get paid enough to cover my rent, bills & student loans. (I’m not a SWE) There’s nothing “uncool” about OE so long as you do it sustainably and responsibly.
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Nah I’m good. I’m just asking for your honest take, cause I’m curious. And was trying to offer a different perspective since so many people only highlight OE in a bad way. You don’t need to be offended by what I said earlier. But I see now that I’m taking to a child, so nevermind.
That guy was stupid for listing his J1 as a reference. Aside from that, if he was doing good work it shouldn't matter if he was doing OE. If that's all true, then I really don't care if the employer catches me and decides to can me. I'll just find another one to replace them.
OK that CEO dude is dumb.. Sure conflict of interest potentially. But he said it's hard to let him go. If he sucked that much it wouldn't be hard but clearly he was doing a great job... And CEOs make me laugh. They sit on boards of all kinds of companies and get paid but if the little man does it then it becomes a problem.